In this episode of RiskMasters, I speak with Grant Purdy about risk management, uncertainty and the relationship between risk and better decision-making.

Grant has spent almost five decades working in risk and decision-making. He was a nominated expert involved in the development of ISO 31000, contributed to ISO Guide 73 and helped shape ISO/IEC 31010.

He is also co-author, with the late Roger Estall, of Deciding, a practical guide designed to help people make better decisions.

Our conversation examines how risk management has evolved, why Grant believes parts of the profession have become disconnected from decision-making, and what boards, executives and risk professionals can do differently.

“Certainty is a total illusion. It can never be achieved. Sufficient certainty is as good as we can get.” – Grant Purdy

🎯 What You Will Learn

• Why risk management should ultimately improve decision-making

• How to make decisions without waiting for impossible certainty

• Why identifying and monitoring assumptions strengthens governance

• Where risk matrices and risk appetite can create false confidence

• How AI can support judgement without replacing accountability

🕒 Episode Highlights

01:23 - What ISO 31000 was originally trying to achieve

Grant traces the development of ISO 31000 from AS/NZS 4360 and explains why creating useful information for decision-making was central to the original approach.

06:03 - Where risk management lost its way

We discuss the different philosophies that emerged around risk management and why Grant believes the profession needs to reconnect risk with decision support.

10:29 - Uncertainty, assumptions and sufficient certainty

Grant explains why decisions require clarity about purpose, opportunity, desired outcomes and the assumptions on which they depend.

16:08 - The danger of seeking certainty

Why waiting for complete information can produce analysis paralysis, missed opportunities and delayed action.

21:10 - What risk matrices can and cannot tell us

Grant explains why a useful prioritisation tool can become misleading when organisations treat it as a form of quantitative analysis.

24:20 - Governance, regulation and decision-making

A provocative discussion about the relationship between standards, regulation and consultancy, and why governance should ultimately be concerned with how decisions are made.

32:49 - Why well-governed organisations still make poor decisions

We explore unclear purpose, hidden assumptions, predetermined outcomes, insufficient challenge and weak monitoring.

36:49 - AI and the future of decision support

Grant considers how AI can broaden context, challenge bias and surface assumptions, alongside the dangers of allowing technology to substitute for human judgement.

41:01 - The future of the risk profession

Why Grant believes risk professionals should broaden their capabilities and become facilitators of better organisational decisions.

44:02 - Better decisions begin with purpose

Grant closes with the principle at the heart of his approach to decision-making.

🎧 Listen now on:

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👤 About Grant Purdy

Grant Purdy has almost five decades of experience working in risk management and decision-making. He chaired the Standards Australia and Standards New Zealand risk management committee for ten years and was a nominated expert involved in developing ISO 31000.

Grant on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/grant-purdy-4ba1925/

Learn more about Deciding: https://www.sufficientcertainty.com/book

📚 Related Resources

• From Approval to Impact: Repositioning Risk Appetite 

• Strategic Uncertainty Governance 

• Risk Impact Assessment: What Actually Drives Decision Quality 

• When Delay Changes the Decision Itself 

🎓 Download your CPD certificate:

The CPD Group - Accreditation: [ADD ACCREDITATION NUMBER]

How do leaders move from recognising a Gray Rhino to actually doing something about it?

In this RiskMasters — The Download, Michele Wucker, author of The Gray Rhino and You Are What You Risk, explains the five stages of the Gray Rhino framework and how they can help leaders assess where they are in responding to visible, high-impact risks.

The five stages are denial, muddling, diagnosing, panic and action.

Michele explains why diagnosing represents an important shift. Rather than simply acknowledging the risk, leaders begin asking how quickly it is developing, how significant it could become, what solutions are available, what resources are required and who needs to be involved.

The framework also considers where other stakeholders sit within those five stages. A response may depend on people who have not yet recognised the urgency of the risk or who lack the authority to act.

The conversation explores why panic can be a double-edged sword. It can finally create momentum, but it can also lead to poor decisions. Having a plan matters, but so do the mechanisms and decision authority required to implement it.

Michele also introduces the idea of a “crash of rhinos”, where several significant risks interact or arrive together, alongside smaller “baby rhinos” that may develop into larger threats.

• The five stages of the Gray Rhino framework

• How leaders move from recognition and diagnosis to action

• Why stakeholders may be at different stages of responding

• How panic can lead to action but also poor decisions

• Why multiple risks can develop into a “crash of rhinos”

The Gray Rhino framework provides a practical way for risk leaders to assess not only the risks they face, but how prepared their organisations and key stakeholders are to respond. Effective action requires diagnosis, planning, decision authority, and continued tracking and adjustment.

This extract is taken from the full RiskMasters conversation with Michele Wucker on the Gray Rhino, risk management, behavioural risk and strategic decision-making.

Listen to the full RiskMasters episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or at aevitium.com.

Risk culture, cultural differences, leadership, and risk management are closely connected to how people perceive and respond to risk.

In this RiskMasters — The Download segment, Horst Simon draws on his international experience to explore how cultural worldviews influence risk behaviour inside organisations. He discusses three broad perspectives, guilt versus innocence, honour versus shame, and power versus fear, and explains why organisations operating across cultures need to consider these differences when developing risk policies and processes.

The conversation also explores how generational differences influence attitudes towards work, organisations, mobility, and risk, creating another important consideration for leaders building an effective risk culture.

Listeners will gain insight into:

• How cultural differences can influence risk management decisions
• Why the same risk policy may be interpreted differently across cultures
• How cultural worldviews shape attitudes towards responsibility and consequences
• Why generational differences matter when building risk culture
• How global organisations can consider human behaviour within risk frameworks

This extract is taken from the full RiskMasters interview with Horst Simon on risk culture, people risk, leadership, operational risk, and the future of risk management, available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and at aevitium.com.

How can risk leaders apply the Gray Rhino framework to risks their organisations already recognise?

In this RiskMasters — The Download, Michele Wucker, author of The Gray Rhino and You Are What You Risk, explains how she applies the Gray Rhino concept to risk management, risk identification and decision-making.

Her starting point is straightforward: organisations usually already know what their Gray Rhinos are.

They may involve succession, organisational culture, competitive pressures, finance and liquidity, regulation or other strategic risks. Michele’s approach starts by taking a fresh look at those known risks and assessing honestly how effectively the organisation is responding.

She explains how applying the Gray Rhino framework moves beyond identifying risk. Decision-makers need to understand who is affected, who has the power to act, how different risks interact and whether information flows effectively between frontline teams, management and the board.

The conversation also explores psychological safety, behavioural risk and risk culture. Michele explains why organisations need channels that allow people throughout the business to communicate what they see and ensure important risk signals reach those empowered to act.

The discussion then considers the relationship between quantitative risk management and behavioural factors, including how risks are interpreted, communicated and priced.

• How Michele Wucker applies the Gray Rhino framework
• Moving from risk identification to action
• How stakeholders and interconnected risks shape risk decisions
• Why psychological safety strengthens information flow
• How behavioural risk complements quantitative risk management

The Gray Rhino concept provides a practical framework for addressing high-probability, high-impact risks that are already visible. Michele shows how leaders can use it to examine organisational responses, improve risk communication and move from recognising a threat towards informed action.

This extract is taken from the full RiskMasters conversation with Michele Wucker on the Gray Rhino, risk management, behavioural risk and strategic decision-making.

Listen to the full RiskMasters episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or at aevitium.com.

What determines whether an organisation remains resilient when it comes under real pressure?

In this episode of RiskMasters, Julien Haye is joined by Freddy Gielen, Executive Partner at Reply, to explore why organisational resilience is fundamentally a leadership and organisational design challenge rather than simply a matter of governance frameworks or regulatory compliance.

Drawing on more than three decades advising financial institutions, regulators and boards across Europe, Freddy shares the recurring patterns he observes across organisations, explaining why resilience rarely fails through a single decision but instead erodes through rational trade-offs, fragmented accountability and unnoticed ambiguity.

Together, they discuss the relationship between risk management, operational resilience, governance, leadership, and organisational resilience, challenging conventional thinking about how resilient organisations are built.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• Why resilience is a leadership capability rather than simply a control function
• Why governance frameworks can appear robust yet struggle under stress
• The difference between documented capability and operational capability
• How weak signals become diluted as they move through organisations
• Why transformation often relocates organisational friction instead of removing it
• Why ambiguity in ownership, data and governance creates systemic risk
• How regulatory change exposes organisational capacity constraints
• Why resilience often competes with growth, speed and short-term performance

Whether you are a Chief Risk Officer, risk leader, operational resilience professional, compliance executive, board member or governance practitioner, this episode offers practical insights into strengthening resilience in complex organisations.

⏱️ Episode Highlights

01:15 – Why organisational resilience is a design choice, not a technical problem

08:39 – The gap between documented capability and operational resilience

17:53 – Why transformation relocates organisational friction

23:53 – How weak signals become diluted through escalation

29:57 – When mature governance frameworks fail under stress

39:31 – Why ambiguity creates systemic organisational risk

45:19 – Why resilience competes with organisational success

📚 Related Resources

Organisational Silos: The Hidden Cost of Fragmented Governance

Discover how fragmented accountability, disconnected decision-making and organisational silos create hidden vulnerabilities that only emerge under stress.

How Functional Silos Weaken Risk Identification and Escalation

Explore why weak signals become diluted as they move through organisations and how governance structures influence escalation and decision-making.

Psychological Safety in Risk Management

Learn why challenge, escalation and speaking up are essential to organisational resilience and effective risk leadership.

🎓 Download your CPD certificate:

⁠The CPD Group – Accreditation:⁠ #501296

Most organisations look for major risks.

Frédéric Gielen argues that the biggest threats often begin with something much smaller.

Ambiguity.

In this RiskMasters: The Download, Frédéric explains why unclear ownership, fragmented data, and poorly defined responsibilities rarely create immediate problems but become systemic vulnerabilities when organisations come under stress.

He also explores another overlooked challenge. During periods of regulatory change, organisations often focus on budgets and implementation deadlines while underestimating their ability to absorb change.

We explore:

• Why ambiguity creates systemic organisational risk
• How unclear ownership compounds under stress
• The relationship between governance, data, and resilience
• Why organisations run out of capacity before budget
• How regulatory change exposes organisational constraints

Risk rarely grows because of a single failure.

It often develops where ambiguity, governance, and organisational capacity quietly intersect.

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Music by Lexin_Music via Pixabay, used under the Pixabay Content License.

Strong governance frameworks are essential.

Clear responsibilities, documented escalation processes, and defined governance structures help organisations operate consistently.

Yet these same structures can become obstacles during disruption.

In this RiskMasters: The Download, Frédéric Gielen explores why governance frameworks that appear mature on paper may struggle when organisations come under stress.

Drawing on decades advising financial institutions, regulators, and boards, he explains how fragmented accountability, sequential decision-making, and misalignment between legal entity governance and operational governance can reduce organisational resilience when rapid decisions are required.

We explore:

• Why mature governance frameworks can fail under stress
• How fragmented accountability slows decision-making
• The tension between legal entity governance and operational governance
• Why governance structures should evolve for resilience
• The relationship between governance effectiveness and organisational resilience

Effective governance is not only about clear structures.

It is about ensuring those structures continue to support timely decisions when organisations face uncertainty and disruption.

Organisational resilience is often associated with governance frameworks, policies, and documented controls.

These remain essential.

However, resilience is rarely determined by documentation alone.

In this RiskMasters: The Download, Frédéric Gielen explains why organisational resilience depends on organisational design, decision-making, and behaviours that continue to operate effectively under pressure.

Drawing on decades of experience advising regulators and financial institutions across Europe, he argues that resilience rarely disappears through a single failure. Instead, it gradually weakens through rational trade-offs that appear reasonable when viewed individually but collectively reduce organisational control.

The discussion also explores the difference between documented capability and operational capability. Many organisations develop comprehensive governance frameworks, recovery plans, and resilience documentation. Under stress, however, those same organisations often discover that decision-making, escalation, and accountability do not operate as expected.

Another key insight is that resilience should be viewed as a design choice rather than a technical exercise. Governance frameworks provide structure, but organisational resilience depends on transparency, redundancy, accountability, and the ability of the organisation to adapt when disruption occurs.

The extract covers:

• Organisational resilience and governance
• Risk frameworks and governance frameworks
• Organisational design and resilience
• Documented versus operational capability
• Decision-making under stress
• Rational trade-offs and organisational fragility

This extract is taken from the full RiskMasters conversation with Frédéric Gielen discussing organisational resilience, governance, leadership, and the structural choices that determine how organisations perform under pressure. This episode will be released on August 1st 2026.

Compliance is often defined through rules, regulation, and control frameworks.

The challenge is not the absence of rules. It is how those rules are interpreted and applied in practice.

In this RiskMasters bonus episode, Jennifer Geary and Natalie McManus explore the difference between rules-based compliance and principles-based compliance, and why starting with harm leads to better decisions.

The discussion focuses on a shift in sequence.

Compliance processes typically begin with the question: what does the rule require.

In practice, decisions are shaped earlier, when potential outcomes and risks are considered.

Starting with harm changes how compliance operates.

It requires organisations to consider impact before interpretation, and to apply rules in context rather than in isolation.

This creates a shift in how compliance decisions are made:

• decisions are anchored in potential harm rather than rule interpretation
• rules are applied in context rather than followed mechanically
• judgement is exercised earlier in the decision process
• supervision is balanced with trust and capability
• compliance supports outcomes as well as adherence

The extract also highlights the role of supervision.

Organisations can increase control through oversight, automation, and monitoring.

This reduces the risk of error. It also increases cost and can reduce flexibility.

Alternatively, organisations can invest in judgement, enabling individuals to act as their own control.

The balance between supervision and autonomy becomes a risk decision.

For organisations, this changes how compliance supports governance and risk management.

Compliance is not only about meeting regulatory requirements. It is about how those requirements are interpreted, prioritised, and embedded in decision-making.

This includes how harm is identified, how rules are applied in context, and how judgement is developed across the organisation.

Strengthening these capabilities improves how organisations manage compliance risk, support decision-making, and align outcomes with regulatory intent.

This extract is taken from the RiskMasters episode with Jennifer Geary and Natalie McManus, discussing principles-based compliance, decision-making, and the role of the Chief Compliance Officer.

Compliance frameworks typically include risk assessment, monitoring, reporting, governance, and policy.

The challenge is not the absence of these components. It is how they connect in practice.

In this RiskMasters bonus episode, Natalie McManus explains the IMPACT Wheel and how it reframes compliance as a continuous system aligned to the risk management lifecycle.

The discussion focuses on how compliance moves from periodic activity to real-time decision support.

Risk assessment is often treated as an annual or cyclical exercise. In practice, it occurs continuously, whenever new information, regulatory change, or operational risk emerges.

The IMPACT Wheel connects risk identification, measurement, action, monitoring, and correction into a single integrated process.

This creates a shift in how compliance operates:

• risk assessment becomes continuous and real-time
• monitoring reflects current conditions, not predefined plans
• actions are taken based on live information
• issues are surfaced through multiple channels
• insight feeds back into decision-making

The model is designed to be flexible and organisation-agnostic.

It allows compliance, audit, and control functions to operate as a connected system rather than separate activities.

Simplicity is a core principle. Clear models are easier to apply, easier to scale, and more likely to influence behaviour.

For organisations, this changes how compliance supports governance and risk management.

It shifts compliance from a structured framework to an integrated capability embedded in decision-making.

This includes how risk is assessed in context, how monitoring adapts to change, and how information flows across the organisation.

This extract is taken from the RiskMasters episode with Jennifer Geary and Natalie McManus, discussing the IMPACT Wheel, compliance frameworks, and the integration of compliance into the risk management lifecycle.