"I knew that I couldn't hate my child enough to get him to heaven. And I wasn't going to love him straight to hell." One phone call flipped Debra McNinch's entire world — and what she built from the wreckage is something every parent in the fight needs to hear.

Get Debras new book today: https://www.debramcninch.com/product-page/battle-cry-waging-the-spiritual-battle-for-your-prodigal-love-goes-to-war

Sign up for Battlecry today (FREE): https://www.debramcninch.com/battlecry

---

**WHAT YOU'LL HEAR**

- The phone call that changed everything: Debra was sitting on what she calls her "make-believe front porch," convinced she'd nailed the Christian parenting thing — then one of her kids called and said "Mom, I'm transgender." She describes it as a tsunami hitting a beach full of people who had no idea it was coming.

- Standing between two doors: Debra found herself caught between the church crowd saying "cut them off" and the crowd saying "God loves everyone, it's all fine" — and how she realized neither door was actually built on scripture, and she had to find a third way.

- Laying her child on the altar — literally: She talks about the moment she physically had to release her son to God, and uses the image of Moses's mother pushing that basket into the river — and how long she must have kept her hand on it before she finally let go.

- Why "I want to go back" is actually a sin: Debra draws a direct parallel between her own longing to return to the life she had before and the Israelites complaining about Egypt in the desert — and the moment God told her that going back would put her in bondage.

- God shutting down her Billy Graham plan: She describes praying for God to just send a famous preacher to fix everything, and God responding with, "You don't know how powerful your prayers are" — her own Gideon moment of not knowing what was already inside her.

- What Battlecry Moms actually is: 1,700 moms (and growing) on a standalone network — completely off Instagram and Facebook — organized into "tribes" by specific circumstance: transgender kids, LGBTQ kids, estrangement, addiction, prison, and children who've walked away from faith entirely. Built on one motto: no one fights alone.

- The five-step battle plan for parents on the bathroom floor: Worship first, then the word, then prayer, then declaration, then community — and the specific, practical way Debra walks through each one for parents who don't know where to start.

---

**ABOUT THE GUEST**

Debra Mcninch is the founder of the Battlecry Prayer Movement, a worldwide community of parents praying together for their prodigal kids, and the author of *Battlecry: Love Goes to War*. She built something the American church largely wasn't offering — a safe place for faith-filled parents to be honest about the hardest seasons of their lives without having to choose between their convictions and their kids.

---

**CONNECT WITH DEBRA McNINCH**

https://instagram.com/battlecrymoms | debramcninch.com

Get Debras new book today: https://www.debramcninch.com/product-page/battle-cry-waging-the-spiritual-battle-for-your-prodigal-love-goes-to-war

Sign up for Battlecry today (FREE): https://www.debramcninch.com/battlecry

---

**SUPPORT THE SHOW**

If this episode meant something to you, leave a review on Apple Podcasts and share it with a leader who needs to hear it.

---

**FOLLOW CHASE**

chaseavery.com | https://www.instagram.com/chase1avery/

A former pastor, church planter, and author breaks down why the wilderness isn't a detour from the Christian life — it IS the Christian life. After walking through identity collapse, the silence of God, and the slow road to restoration, Dustin Kleinschmidt is now doing more actual ministry OUTSIDE vocational ministry than he ever did inside it. An honest voice for the honest Christian! Dustin is an author, coach, worship songwriter, and the writer behind "The Wilderness Way: Finding Freedom in Life's Fractures." His mission is to help believers stop pretending they have it figured out and start trusting God in the fractures — where real faithfulness is forged.

He Explains:

1. Why your identity gets wrapped up in significance (not just ministry) — and how to spot it.
2. How the Western church traded "go and be" for "come and see" — and what we lose when belonging comes after believing.
3. Why lament is faith's most faithful expression (and why Jesus wept at Lazarus' tomb even though He knew the ending).
4. 3 tips for Christians standing at a crossroads who feel stuck in the forest with no clear path forward.

⏱️ CHAPTERS
00:00 – Intro: Meet Dustin Kleinschmidt
02:52 – The Panera Sip Club & Dustin's booth
04:23 – Catching up: The Wilderness Way book study & new worship album
06:54 – Club volleyball, parenting, and the money grab
09:53 – Why this book hit different (Chase's reaction)
12:10 – Doing more ministry OUTSIDE vocational ministry
17:05 – Identity, significance, and the next book Dustin is writing
19:34 – Chase opens up: navigating his own deconstruction
23:11 – "Go and be" vs. "Come and see": rethinking how the church operates
26:50 – The long game: how a volleyball team led someone to Jesus
30:37 – Can the Western church actually change?
33:54 – Theology, philosophy, and practice: what's actually negotiable
38:30 – Reimagining church buildings as community spaces
42:39 – Christian karaoke and why all kinds of churches are needed
49:34 – Chase's home church dissolved: processing the grief
53:23 – Lament as faith's most faithful expression
59:48 – Jesus at Lazarus' tomb: He didn't shortcut the grief
1:05:34 – Where were you when I created? God's tenderness in our temper tantrums
1:08:30 – Why transparency with God changes everything
1:12:05 – Affection languages: how YOU uniquely connect with God
1:19:56 – 3 steps for Christians stuck in the forest of a big decision
1:28:38 – What makes Dustin smile (5 words)
1:29:00 – Where to find Dustin's book, album & coaching

🎵 Stream Dustin's new worship album "In Days" on Spotify & Apple Music
📖 Grab "The Wilderness Way" on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Wilderness-Way-Finding-Freedom-Fractures/dp/B0FWZBVJTX
🌐 Work with Dustin: www.dustinkleinschmidt.com

Follow The Road to Worship:
Website: https://roadtoworship.org
YouTube -    / @roadtoworship  
Listen on Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/4I44Jkv...

Follow Chase:
Follow Chase on Instagram -   / chase1avery  
Learn more about Chase: https://chaseavery.com

A former Division 1 track athlete turned Fortune 500 executive reveals why getting hit by a 4x4 truck at full speed was the FIRST of TWO life-altering "deaths" that led him to discover what's truly broken in our healthcare system. An embodiment of bold faith! Rob Rene is the founder of Exodus Strong, a faith-based wellness company combining red light therapy, frequency medicine, biblically-based supplements, and daily faith practice. Rob's mission is to call the medical system higher and help others heal their bodies the way God designed them to be healed. 

He Explains: 
1. How to rebuild your identity when your dream dies overnight. 
2. Why the healthcare system masks problems instead of healing them (and what to do about it). 
3. How God removed his 20-year alcohol addiction in a single moment of surrender. 
4. The 7 FREE daily habits that will transform your health (no doctor required).

🎁 Save 30% on all bundles at https://exodusstrong.com/
🎙️ Listen to Rob's podcast: Biohackingville on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BiohackingVille

Connect with Rob:
Website: https://exodusstrong.com/
https://www.instagram.com/exodusstrong/ 
https://www.youtube.com/@UCS9LjRXfepZ47Yi-worG4hQ 

Follow The Road to Worship:
Website: https://roadtoworship.org
YouTube -    / @roadtoworship  
Listen on Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/4I44Jkv...

Follow Chase:
Follow Chase on Instagram -   / chase1avery  
Learn more about Chase: https://chaseavery.com

What happens when grief, a global shutdown, and a business bleeding money all hit at the same time — and you have to decide whether to walk away from your dream or fight for it while you're still broken?

McKensey Ciaramella is the co-owner of Tekton Fitness in Murray, Utah — a CrossFit affiliate that's been building community for over 14 years. What started as a family hobby in 2008 when her dad and brother walked into an underground CrossFit gym has evolved into one of the longest-running affiliates in the Salt Lake area. McKensey is an expert CrossFit and nutrition coach, a psychology degree holder turned full-time people-builder, a mother of two, and the kind of leader who makes you feel seen the moment you walk through her door.

Why CrossFit without nutrition is incomplete — and the one shift that transforms everything people notice in the gym

How McKenzie got her Level 1 certification at 10 months pregnant, then signed a gym lease from a hospital bed days after giving birth

The gut-wrenching moment she got the call that her mom had committed suicide — and how grief physically shut her body down for months

Why she refused to quit the gym during her lowest season, choosing instead to let the work heal her rather than making permanent decisions from a broken place

The raw truth about entrepreneurship: not getting paid for a year, leaning on her husband's support, and choosing to give it everything even if failure was on the table

How she creates a space so authentic that people literally cannot hide who they are — and why that's the magic of her community

The parallel between CrossFit and life: it never gets easier, you just get stronger — and why your first pull-up and your rock bottom are both part of the same journey

If you've ever wrestled with whether to keep going when everything in your life is telling you to stop — or wondered what it looks like to rebuild yourself and your business at the same time — this conversation will hit home.

Connect with McKensey:
Join Tekton Fitness Today: https://tektonfitness.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tektonfitness/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TEKTONFITNESS-ie5jg

Follow The Road to Worship:
Website: https://roadtoworship.org
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@roadtoworship
Listen on Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/4I44JkvbnuqREcsaMD3Kks

Follow Chase:
Follow Chase on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/chase1avery
Learn more about Chase: https://chaseavery.com

What happens when the business you built to secure your family's future crumbles — and you have to decide whether to cling to safety or trust God with everything?

Adrian Conway is a 3x CrossFit Games athlete, former Division I running back, founder of Train to Rise Up, CrossFit seminar staff coach, gym owner, and podcast host of True Fitness. With over 20 years in the fitness industry, Adrian has built a career training everyone from beginners to elite competitors — but his journey to get here required a hard pivot, a financial collapse, and a radical return to what God created him to do.

• Why CrossFit isn't just about your body — it's about who you become between your ears and in your heart
• The shocking parallel between CrossFit methodology and biblical discipleship: accountability, standards, community, and growth through discomfort
• How Adrian walked away from a six-figure business valuation and had to restart from scratch — with a family, a mortgage, and no safety net
• Why the gifts God gives you should ooze from your skin — and if they don't, you might be chasing the wrong thing
• The difference between loving your craft and loving entrepreneurship — and why young business owners need to know which one they actually want
• How God shaped Adrian through football, injury, baptism, and business failure to prepare him for the calling he's walking in now

If you've ever felt the pressure to choose between stability and calling, or wondered what it looks like to trust God when everything falls apart — this conversation will meet you right where you are.

Connect with Adrian Conway:
GET ALL 8 PROGRAMS TODAY ($19.99): https://ttrufitness.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/adrianconway_/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@adrianconway__

Follow The Road to Worship:
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@roadtoworship
Podcast - https://www.youtube.com/@roadtoworship

Follow Chase:
Follow Chase on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/chase1avery