In this episode of Ruminations, we’re joined by Paul and Phyllis Van Amburgh of Dharma Lea—a 100% grass-fed, holistically managed dairy in upstate New York. They share their unlikely journey from first-time conventional dairy farmers to nationally recognized leaders in regenerative agriculture. What changed everything? Holistic Management.

We get into the weeds of what that transition really looked like—from the tough decisions and mindset shifts to the practical changes on the ground. By moving from rotational to holistic planned grazing, they extended their grazing season by 120%, slashed feed costs, and brought herd health to a whole new level—cutting mastitis rates from 73% to just 3%.

But their impact didn’t stop at the farm gate. Paul and Phyllis helped build the supply chain for Maple Hill Creamery, guiding over 125 farms in making the leap to grass-fed. Today, they mentor fellow farmers who want to build operations that are ecologically sound, financially viable, and deeply rooted in values.

This is a candid, practical, and inspiring conversation about what it really takes to go regenerative—and why it’s worth it.

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[5:33] Life on the farm  

[13:00] Why they built a family-run business  

[26:41] Getting into farming  

[37:24] Unlearning old business habits  

[43:40] Grass-fed vs grain-fed: financial insights  

[57:55] Transition to 100% grass-fed dairy  

[58:00] Managing yield drag & system change  

[1:04:33] Improving soil health  

[1:07:29] Understanding forage & nutrition  

[1:16:38] From utilization to recovery mindset  

[1:32:21] Planned vs rotational grazing  

[1:39:09] Advice for transitioning farmers  

[1:47:07] What changed slowly over time  

[1:52:11] Visiting Dimbangombe in Zimbabwe  

[1:59:32] Future of regenerative agriculture

[2:10:21] Closing

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This episode is brought to you by Savory Institute’s Regenerating Members, a global community committed to restoring grasslands. Learn more and join for just $10/month at 👉 https://savory.global/member

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