For today’s special pledge drive show, Thursday host Allen Ruff has a wide-ranging conversation with iconic prison abolitionist Ruth Wilson Gilmore about the meaning of geography, why abolition, the “changing same” of racism, the carceral state, and the future of organizing.

Ruth Wilson Gilmore is a prison abolitionist and carceral geographer. She is director of the Center for Place, Culture, and Politics and professor of geography in Earth and Environmental Sciences at The City University of New York. Her books include Golden Gulag: Prisons, Surplus, Crisis, and Opposition in Globalizing California (University of California Press, 2007) and Abolition Geography: Essays Towards Liberation (Verso, 2022).

Cover photo by Dana Scruggs for The New York Times 

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