This week on Sake & Hot Tubs, Lisa and Fred sit down with Ned Payant, Chairman of the Board at American Pacific Mortgage — and a leader who keeps it real.

From building relationships across every level of the business to pushing through discomfort for real growth, Ned shares what leadership actually looks like behind the scenes.

The biggest takeaways? ✔️ Don't be a Richard ✔️ Relationships drive everything ✔️ Growth happens when you get uncomfortable

It's honest, it's practical, and it's a reminder that the best leaders don't just build businesses — they build people.

Grab your sake and get ready for a conversation that might challenge the way you think about leadership.