With all the closures of entertainment venues and cancellation of shows due to Covid 19, is there a silver lining for arts lovers and performers with disabilities? Hosts Petrina Kow and Laurindo Garcia examine inclusion in post-pandemic arts and entertainment with guests Prashant Somosundram from The Projector, Wild Rice's Ivan Heng, Ammar Ameezy and Grace Lee Khoo from Access PATH Productions plus a performance jazz musician and Sing! China sensation Joanna Dong.

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TRANSCRIPT

Janice Koh: [00:00:00] As we all know, there's been widespread cancellations of shows and the closure of entertainment, any news crossing report. And because of that, it has severely impacted not just people like ourselves who are performers, but thousands of Singaporeans who work behind the scenes.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:00:19] That was Janice Koh, one of the co-founders of Pasar Glamour, an organization who set up the emergency relief fund for performing artists in Singapore who lost their jobs due to Covid 19.

Petrina Kow: [00:00:31] Hello and welcome. My name is Petrina Kow and we are your hosts for Inclusively.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:00:38] It's nice to be back. I'm Laurindo Garcia.

Petrina Kow: [00:00:41] I know it's it's been an interesting journey because we started, you know, a couple of episodes in and then, you know, Covid 19 happened and they were like, okay, I think we need to take a break to see what all this is about. And then so then, you know, halfway into it, we're like, oh, my God, I think this is time for us to jump back in. And hence the new format and hence us doing this live with guests and everybody. And so today is our very first episode doing that. So bear with us if we're, you know, technically all over the shop. But we're figuring this out as we go along, which is the best way to figure things out.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:01:17] So our listeners may be wondering why why are we restarting right now? And after a long conversation with Petrine and we were really thinking about how we could contribute to the conversation as the world starts thinking about what post.com, what post-Covid 19 world look like, what would that world look like? Because so many companies and organizations have responded to the pandemic by trying things that they would never dream of doing. And we thought that it would be an opportunity for all of us to reflect and consider how the lessons learned from the coronavirus could contribute to a more inclusive Asia if these new things that people or organizations are doing were sustained and scaled up.

Petrina Kow: [00:02:00] Yeah, and of course, we decided to start the whole discussion with, you know, with the lens in mind from the point of view of the arts and culture, it's something that's very close to my heart. And, you know, thinking about what's happening in Singapore, I think we've seen, you know, the people on West End and Broadway sort of lead the way with offering their shows online for free. And I think quite a few theatre companies and, you know, arts venues have also started to do that here. And I think, you know, bearing in mind a lot of friends and artists are, you know, at home now without jobs, but yet are finding ways to offer their work somehow and obviously on a much more online sort of space. So today we thought we would gather a few of our friends to come and discuss what they've been doing, what they've been up to, and how they've been responding to this whole Covid 19 pandemic choreographer and filmmaker Aamar Ameezy.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:02:58] You will be joining us and to provide us with a glimpse of what could make arts and entertainment more inclusive in a post pandemic world. We'll be speaking to Grace Lee Khoo from Access Path Productions.

Petrina Kow: [00:03:10] We will also be hearing from one of Singapore's most recognizable jazz voices, Ms. Joanna Dong, who has been doing a whole bunch of exciting things from the comfort of her own home. And she'll be filling us in on the details of that. But first, I'd like to just introduce our first guest, who is joining us from a very special place is one of my favorite cinemas in Singapore, the projector. He is the general manager of the projector, an independent cinema on Beach Road in Singapore. Ladies and gents, please welcome Prashant Somosundram. Hi Prashant.

Prashant Somosundram: [00:03:52] Good morning. Morning. Thanks for inviting me to here.

Petrina Kow: [00:03:56] Not at all. So I am on your mailing list, so I get your sort of like, you know, offerings all the time. And I think the recent e-mail came to me was was a very special one. And it really was such a, you know, an honest offering from from your team about what it means to have this community. So I guess with that in mind, could you share with us how the projector is has fared, you know, and or is or is responding to the crisis at the moment?

Prashant Somosundram: [00:04:24] So maybe I'll just find it a bit of a background on The Projector. Those are not some inevitable. But, I mean, it's a six year or cinema now. It started out with a kind of fun and abandoned space. Oh, 1970s. Yeah. Which wasn't used for many years. And, you know, we actually started a Indiegogo project to partially fund this in the last night. It was already, you know, from the community really we started building this space. So we really had a lot of community support from the get go, which. Loudest is to survive, you know, in a time where everyone was kind of going online to so far as it was, you know, in building this space, it was always a bonding facility and bringing people together in that space and building that kind of community energy. So what's a lot about fun and participation and stuff that you can do as a group? So and, you know, Covid 19, it kind of filled our entire space was kind of thrown out because we had built a lot of our identity around that space. So that's how it was. It was really an interesting time for us to then take stock and see what, you know, if this was the reality. And probably will be for I'll be six to nine months. And we do run a business. So it's not a nonprofit organization as such. You know, we have a team of 14 full timers to feed. So I think, you know, for us, the when the closures were announced, we were kind of already planning for it because we were looking at what's happening around the world and we get a sense that this was impending. So we've already planning for it. But the immediate part was to try and figure out a bit of a cash flow for, you know, one month or so which which we'll find him. And the community really came in. But, you know, vouchers, tote bags and stuff to help us get through the first month of closure. But I think very, very quickly, we also realized that this is going to be a bit of a longer thing. And even when we reopen, you know, social distancing is probably going to be a permanent thing for a while. And we also saw that in China's in a mass open and then closed again because that's a second wave and all that. So I think we had a bit of a mental switch and we were like, OK, we need to figure out what the projects are. Community and the projects will be in an online space. And how do we've been trying to fight for a bit of that community in a very crowded space, actually, because you have, you know, multifocal what we are offering, but there's tons of options. And so how do we value add to this experience? So I think much of our conversations in the last six weeks has been around that. The good news is we've got an idea license to it's going to a streaming space. And then now we're working on the tech and the licensing with all our content providers to figure out what we can do. And see because it's going to be a challenge, because we will be like a paper. Whereas, you know, Netflix has this entire slate for a very low price kind of thing. So how do you get your audience to be willing to pay X amount for? Is that an experience? Yeah, a lot of philosophical questions that, you know, at least now we have the time to do it.

Petrina Kow: [00:07:57] And it's so I mean, it's so heartbreaking in a way, listening to this, because, you know, I think when we when we had that community and you thinking about gathering and I think what I what I loved most about the you know, even though I wasn't very much a part of it, but I just loved seeing that you guys were doing so many fun things. You know her. There were all these different nights, you know. You know, so it really sort of included and and brought in communities that were normally maybe not included in a cinema going experience, you know. And do you find that this is the community is sort of coming, you know, that that you're still sort of reaching out to and that you're still hanging on to? Or have you found new audiences perhaps that that was not part of the projector experience before?

Prashant Somosundram: [00:08:51] Yeah, sure. Sure. Never. That's a great question, because, I mean, this is what we are finding now that we are being forced to go into the online space is actually we are reaching out to a lot of people who may not have even been able to or may not have been willing to come to the cinema. So there were I mean, you know, we have now a family. So like, you know, I have kids and all this. That's why I left what you're doing. But I couldn't bring my two year old up three of that. But then now they're having access to this content. And the other thing is, is just, you know, I mean, recently we've been streaming I dream of saying, oh, which is a documentary about migrant workers produced by Glen Goei, directed by Wan Pin. I went in. So this. Yeah. I mean, it was and then we had a talkback session with a migrant worker and, you know, the Ethan from TWC2, which is an NGO that works with migrant workers. And usually we would do this in the cinema. And, you know, you'll be preaching to 200 people who are probably already sensitized to the issue. Whereas now doing it on Facebook life and having there recording and being available to everyone. The number of viewers are far beyond our traditional outreach methods. So I think it's great for us and for the Web that we are trying to do in terms of create, you know, platforming content and also generating conversation around this content. It's allowing us to reach people who may not have come to this in a month or so. It's actually a great opportunity for us.

Petrina Kow: [00:10:29] And I and I love that because I you know, I think for a lot of the theater companies that I, you know, I am close to or I've spoken to, I think initially there was a little bit of hesitance to to kind of put their shows online or past productions, because a lot of the times the the technical aspect of these recordings were not meant for broadcast. Right. It was it was just archival. So there was a lot of like, oh, you know, you're not gonna get the real experience, blah, blah, blah. But I think when the eventually sold for example, I know at least for Wild Rice, when they put Emily on, they were suddenly not expecting the kind of response that they got into the hundreds of thousands of views within a couple of days. And, you know, lots of people responding from all over the world. You know, I mean, even people who've never really watched Singapore in theater before suddenly were discovering it and enjoying it and and really connecting to that that piece of history and culture that Emily was. And it's just I think for them, I think has been in quite mind blowing in, at least for. It gave a lot of hope for the other theater companies to kind of go forth and do the same. And I think they're really doing like I feel like when what I'm hearing from all the different theater companies of how they're offering and and what they're finding, this seems to be that kind of thread that they're finding new audiences and they're being able they're able to include people that have traditionally been sort of maybe, you know, how do we how to even market to this group of people? Will they even come, you know, that kind of thing? Yeah, yeah.

Prashant Somosundram: [00:12:01] No, I think I mean, I would imagine that five years down the road. Now we will all look back on this and see this as a great opportunity for us in terms of how we have expanded audiences and even tried an experimental new methods. And, you know, offerings in a way. So, I mean, for The Projector, they're basically looking this and, you know, let's let's see what we can do if that's two months that we are practically given away. I mean, there are survival issues that we are addressing. But, you know, let's let's see what we can do from this. And, you know, come our stronger after that.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:12:36] Thank you. Passion. So I do invite you to stay on as we start thinking about what the future would look like. And it's great that you've had a chance to to experiment and try different things. And we're definitely not out of the woods yet. But I wonder kind of now shift the conversation as we kind of consider how a post covered 19 well, could be more inclusive. And I want to introduce Aamar Ameezy and invite him to provide us with an artist's perspective. So, Aamar, you're a choreographer, you're a filmmaker as well. And I want to hear. We'd love to hear from you about how your work or how your ability to do work has been affected by Covid 19.

Ammar Ameezy: [00:13:21] So I like to call it something like two people must have to be filmmaker to be a filmmaker in progress because I feel like I've not reached that level yet. But one day. Yeah. So besides doing filmmaking I'm also teaching dance outside. Conducting workshop. So doing. When the Covid 19 actually hits Singapore affected me a lot in terms of financially and also like the fashion to teach the passion to share about my, about my affectivity, my passion. And it's really painful to say that, you know, like right now suddenly it hit me that I had to stop. And now I realized that over the past few weeks, I seen numerous numbers of theatres even artists coming online, getting into support and even provide their work on YouTube. And it's very amazing to see that. How it effects me is that. You come to think that right now. It seems to me is that art is one of the best solution to help to engage people like what filmmakers are doing. Like what theatre people are doing? And is is they heartwarming to see, you know, how everyone is coming together just to give a good show whether they are doing podcast. Whether they are doing a show online. And because I also like to mention that because I'm Deaf, I rely heavily a lot on captions, subtitles and all this that are coming up with caption such as Wild Rice, Pangdemonium. And even from other countries said it's London there. They actually provide caption. And it's really so easy to watch. And like Prashant said, reaching out to people who are doing really access the theater. I know actually beginning to watch theatre. And so to be honest, as much as I don't like to watch them online because I prefer to have the real feeling of being on theatre itself and just watching the emotion come through, it's also a good way that people are understanding that. Okay, like, you know, it doesn't have to be just like you can be just be at home and watch. And what I do is get up on performance and go, we are watching a movie or Netflix at home. Yeah. And I would like to mention about a challenges that I face in my career is that I had a lot of barriers going on to me, for example. Sometimes I have people are not very confident in my work because they think that Deaf people cannot associate with music because we can't hear. Or we like. Yeah. Not music doesn't involve deafness. Yeah. Because they assume that deafness is just basically you can't hear anything. So I would declare it right now actually in my hearing, my hearing level is severe. And maybe in the I would say ten years down the road. Probably I will hear nothing. So I'm not too worries about that. And I appreciate what god give me. Yeah. So because of all these barriers people tend to have the misconception that, OK, I didn't think being able to do this work because of your disability and a lot of people whenever I'm performing would be really shocked. When they got, you know, that, oh, you are a dancer. But then you cannot hear, how? You know. And it turns out not to be like I look like some kind of a circus show, you know, like a freak that I let the people know this guy's Deaf and he can dance. Look at him. Look at that. You know, this is something amazing. So this happens then. People are looking at the ability for us, your talent.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:17:45] And now's a busy time for dancers. Right? Pictures online. You're seeing so many people doing dance challenges and things like that. Some I'm wondering how if you're if you're actually busier now doing dance work than you were before.

Ammar Ameezy: [00:17:57] Personally, for me, learning dance life online has never worked for me because partly it's the music let and I can't really hear from a song from the speakers. So it's really difficult to try to keep my dance. I mean, my choreography allow me the music. And so it's not that low as compared to having a speaker and video and everything. Yeah. So I just you know, you stay in accessible. But it's it's amazing. I was some people are doing it. And how do able to cope and stuff when you're doing life. I'm not too sure. I met the media, you know, so. Yeah. But I tried a couple dance class before. Somehow it was 50 percent on me.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:18:50] So I want to bring into the conversation. Grace Lee Khoo from Access Path Productions, welcome. So a couple of things have been spoken about now. The. The I guess the now the grand the new supply of arts experiences that are available online. Aamar was talking about how many of these now are available with captions or subtitles as well that perhaps were not available before. And as a person, as an art practitioner who's also been advocating for more accessible arts in locally. What was your reaction to see all of these new options? I'm curious.

Grace Lee Khoo: [00:19:31] I feel like the pen. I mean, it's kind of like a portal into the future of what can be achieved if we realize how creative we can be and how there is an attitudinal shift to what being creative in overcoming obstacles. And in this case, with the influx of online content being more democratic, you know, our access to the arts, everybody benefits. It's not just different disabled. Community, and this is where I think the conversation needs to continue to deepen, that, you know, access is for everyone, absolutely everyone. When I do disability awareness workshops across the spectrum of mainstream schools to special needs context to cooperation's, you know, I always ask this question, how many of you watch Netflix with the captions on it, you know? And some people go like, oh, I'm English is not my first language. It helps me when I watch it with captions on or someone goes, oh, I'm getting a bit older, my hearing's going, you know, or someone would be like, I have ADHD. So the captions actually help me focus on the plot. So, you know, access truly, truly for organizations, it is good business. You're widening your clientele for consumers across the spectrum of different needs. You know, so I think it's this shift in the paradigm that we we we come back to the spirit of excess pop, where we never look at disability, at something that needs to be fixed. It's about tell me what you need so that you can do the best work that you can. Tell me what what are the obstacles in your way? Is it from impairments, you know, to a lack of support to sometimes just opportunity and education? So we we look at all these barriers and we realize that most of the time it's either environmental infrastructure or it's mostly attitudinal. So my my hope is that, you know, we will emerge from this pandemic with a different mindset that is actually, you know, not that hard. I mean, of course, it's challenging to start, you know, being more inclusive, going online, all the logistical and technical adjustments and adaptations that we have to make after me. Now, the majority, we can make that for the minority groups as well. So that everybody gets to be part of the conversation and part of, you know, the participate of experience.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:22:09] So it's not just about consumption as well, right. Grace? I mean, there's also an element about how different this different mindset also may open opportunities for artists with disabilities as well, because there's new ways for artists to collaborate. Perhaps they're not new, but I guess people are opening up to different ways of working together in a time when we are socially distancing and for people who are faced with some challenges in terms of mobility, but have something to contribute and are makers at home or wherever, wherever they may be located. This then opens up new doors. I mean, what what's your take on that? And have you seen any of the examples of that in over the last three?

Grace Lee Khoo: [00:22:52] I think that so at Access Path, we work with six associate artists and they spend like Aamar. He's a dancer. He's an aspiring filmmaker because he's so modest. And we have we are music producers, sound designers to visual art. And, of course, theater practitioners. And the thing is, because we've always worked this way. You know, we are almost I would say that, you know, when you talk to disabled artists, we are experts of destruction. They're always, you know, barriers when it comes to mobility, when it comes to segregation of opportunities and experiences. So what the pandemic is a disruption to for sure. But then again, I feel like a lot of the people that I work with, whether it's in Singapore or across the world, you know, we've been using this technology for a long time so that we could overcome these distances. So it's almost like we are, in a way, mentally prepared to take on this challenge. And, of course, I mean, that highlights some very real the reality of the situation as well, when physically there are some barriers that we cannot overcome. So what do we can we pivot and go in another direction instead? Yeah. So, for example, when the company did and suddenly I disappear, it's the first disability led intercultural theater performance in 2018. We opened that and the National Museum of Singapore and then we took the UK opening at the Southbank. Now, when we did that, we were very sure that we were going to devote a huge part of our budget to live streaming it. And this was done in 2018 way pre pandemic because we were going to life into the region, into Philippines, into Hong Kong, Taiwan, into places where people don't have access to the theatre or can't perhaps leave the homes that are hosting. So we did that with the intention of bridging that gap. And while the show has been online ever since, you know, on the Internet forever. Twenty eighteen, so now is a good time for us to then bring that out in go like. Hey, you know, this piece of work has always been there fully captioned, you know, with with audio description as well. And it reflects the voices of the Deaf and disabled community in Singapore and in the U.K. It's a dialogue about difference. And the spirit of love. How do you deal with destruction? Mm hmm. Yeah. So when people say so, in a way, I feel like we have always been preparing and we have always continue adapting. And yeah, we're going to keep got, um, keep trying to take this opportunity and widen that conversation really and reach even more people and tell them what is it that we're doing and share and just shall practices.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:25:44] Thank you. Thank you. Great.

Petrina Kow: [00:25:45] Thank you so much, Grace. We we were mentioning earlier about, you know, some of the theatre companies offering some of their shows online. And I think Wild Rice has actually really I mean, has started to work with you to offer already some of the previous shows with closed captioning and, you know, doing different types of shows to include the various different audiences. So actually, we have the artistic director of Wild Rice here with her. So perhaps you could just very quickly tell us, you know, when you guys decided, okay, it's time. All right. All the theaters are closed. We're going to offer Emily online. Like, what were you guys feeling and thinking? And were you expecting the kind of responses you did?

Ivan Heng: [00:26:35] And I think when things started getting really dark and the circuit breaker kicked in and they were kind of, you know, there was this whole sense that, you know, we had to kind of stay home to stay safe. We did something which we've never done before, which has put our shores on line. You know, we've never done it because it's just doesn't reflect the actual show. But it's been so surprising because, you know, Emily has had a hundred and fifty thousand views globally and supervision now who also which also features a disabled person, has, you know, has a captive audience and it's a captive audience because we're all sitting at home right now of more than 50000 people. But one of the first things we did was caption because my husband, Tony, is hearing impaired and we watch Netflix with captions. And that also has been a you know, that has also been a kind of impulse for a while. Right. Because, you know, I lived with a hearing impaired person and that has to understand that. And I mean that, you know, that's how our marriage has lasted because he doesn't hear how I say it. But I think I think, you know, that is a difficult thing. I must say. All kudos to my to our amazing team that it is taken like something like 40 to 50 hours to caption, you know, a show which lasts one hour. And it's difficult, you know, but it's because you have to you never realize captions unless they are badly done and in theater. Right. And then we take it for granted. But in theater, it's an emotional experience. And so, you know, you're sitting there not just proofreading, but just making sure that the captions are accurate first. But also it timed, you know. And to to emotion, you know, and moments. And, you know, with with punchlines. You do want to give the way the punchline before, you know, the actor says it's a Deaf so everyone can enjoy the joke together, you know. So that kind of care. But it's been so amazing. And I think we not just published it. I think the team reached out to the the sad Deaf Deaf association to all the folks that we have been working with our interpreters to say this is happening. And it's been a wonderful response. We're very happy about it.

Petrina Kow: [00:29:12] Thank you so much, Ivan. And I supposed you know, and you touched on this whole thing about, you know, the technical aspect and and the number of hours it takes to do something. I think we have a we have an artist here that who who's also been kind of dealing with it in a very real ways. So it gives me great pleasure to invite our I think she is no stranger to Singaporeans. Singer, jazz singer and actress and host Miss Joanna Dong. So now you are known for, you know, packing crowds of the thousands in big stadiums or even an intimate jazz bars and venues. But that's your bread and butter being in a room with people, with music. So now that, you know, everything's closed. How have you been dealing with it and what have you been, you know, up to. 

Joanna Dong: [00:30:05] The Covid 19 situation affecting my work a lot earlier than maybe it did for most other people? Because I think as early as February when the pandemic hit, many clients were already saying, oh, you know, all our events are kind of big events. They're more than 500 people attending. So we'll probably have to cancel or postpone. So I had a bit more time and, you know, a bit more lead time than many other people in other industries to kind of think about what I was going to do with myself. And so the decision to go online and start streaming my own life performances happened kind of early and I had a little bit more time to prepare. And so I started doing my own stream from my living room, called Jie Jie Time time, which means sister time, you know, kind of like on a weekly basis. One week before the circuit breaker officially took place in Singapore. And it's been a pretty steep learning curve. I've had to, you know, learn various applications, learn how to, you know, do things like set up my audio route it through. Dawe means digital audio workstation. I never knew what that meant. A few weeks ago, you know. And so it's been it's been gratifying because like Prashant and also like Aamar alluded to, you are reaching a wider audience. So maybe before my typical audience size would be about 500 to 2000 people. But now my streams can be viewed by as many as 20 over a thousand. Thirty thousand views on Facebook life, for example. That's an exponential increase in viewership. And also, like they have said, you know, people who previously might not have, you know, either might not have access because they either couldn't afford the tickets or they couldn't physically be present at those shows or they're just not committed enough fans to to to make that distance. You know, going online to watch your livestream is a very low commitment way off, you know, starting to follow a new artist and check out their work. So that's been really great. And I've been having really interesting communications with them. So, you know, before before that, you know, people, the audiences, our faces in the crowd and I'm sure Ivan will know this till you look out into like a sea of darkness and you know that there you can feel them. They breathe with you, but you don't actually know what they're thinking. Whereas on a platform like Facebook, like, for example, you literally can read their very thoughts in the comments section. So you get a much more in-depth idea of not only what they're thinking, but also who they are, because their profiles, their names are visible for you to see. You can tell if they have been back for more than one livestream, you know, they start becoming familiar to you all. That is really nice for engagement. But the downside of it, I think this, again, comes from the very reason why you want to to to perform. And it's the it's not just the number of people your reach, but the quality and the depth of that interaction. And so out of, let's say, 20 to 30 thousand views, if you look at the data and that's the other good thing about, you know, doing it on a platform is that the data and the statistics are very easy to see, but they can also be very hard to interpret. So out of 20000 or 30000 views, the average view time is probably only 45 seconds per. You know, one of those numbers. And then that to me is like, well, that's not even one whole song, you know? And I don't know what to make of that. Like, people are just coming in listening to me sing like, ah, and then they're out. That's so mean. Not not the kind of quality of engagement I would like because I, I do deliver, you know, with a narrative in mind. I take, you know, the effort to to think about the subtext of the lyrics I'm singing. But if you're all you're hearing is. Forty five seconds. I don't know if you're actually getting what I want you to get out of that experience. And so there's there's all of these things and. But you know that all that said, I'm very thankful to to still have this engagement and as a result of me going online quite early. I've also then further been approached by paying clients to do streams on their behalf. And so that has generated income for me. But at the same time, it's thrown me into like a mayhem of tech frustration because every single different streaming platform has different tech requirements. You know, different clients have different requests, which also mean more tech burden on me. And I'm not a tech person. That was why I became an artist in the first place so that I could have a professional crew work for me. But now I have to do everything myself. Yesterday I just had this melt down at. Was throwing a childish tantrum because I was like, what do you mean, why I can't make her anybody help me? They were they were on the phone. They were online. But I had to end up doing everything myself. But, you know, that's that's the metaphor for life. No one can help you if you gotta just do it. So you have been getting a lot of elbow grease.

Petrina Kow: [00:35:17] Oh, honey, I feel you suffer so much. That's like me and an Excel sheet. It's like I can't even do that. But no. Absolutely. And I is almost as if you feel like you don't want the technical bit. You don't want yourself to be too good at the technical bit because.

Joanna Dong: [00:35:34] No, I don't. I don't want people to think that this is the new expectation going forward. And I do make a, you know, a purpose, purposeful effort to make sure that my online streams are a little like less polished than my life shows like a RE. I purposely do not rehearse them so that they come across as spontaneous and organic. But they're not polished. And that's the point, because I still hold the hope that someday we're going back to life performances and back to the standard of performance that I would like to give my audiences.

Petrina Kow: [00:36:08] Well, I certainly have that some maybe, um. I am very, very hopeful, but I certainly feel that that I think because of what we're experiencing now on all and we are consuming so much more content online. We are absolutely feeling what it means and what it takes to put on a live show. So whilst we are getting kind of like a little taster platter, right? Yeah. I never watch his control before I watch it online. Yeah, not that interesting. But next time, if it is being offered life, I'm not you know what, I'm I go try that life, you know. And so I'm hoping that's what will happen when we eventually all get together again. But just just to wrap up this discussion, I was wondering if each of you could kind of offer our listeners just one thing, just in light of what we've discussed today, the one thing that you'd like your listeners to know from your perspective, maybe we can start with Prashant.

Prashant Somosundram: [00:37:03] Yeah, sure. I mean, I think something's echoing and that's how we've kind of increased accessibility of our content to audiences of which may not come to the theater example. Say it's great, I think, for assets. I think that's nice. So just share the content that we have now and just generate more awareness while we work on getting more content online. But I think just going back to Joe and that's thinking about this culture convenience, I think that's something that we need to look at in terms of people just engaging for a very short time. I think we really need to, as an audience, also have a meaningful engagement. So when you when you watch a movie or watch this play, try and dedicate time and you know, you know, I think it's only fair to the artists who are putting that aside and bringing that content to you.

Petrina Kow: [00:37:54] And how about you, Grace? What would you like listeners to know about one thing moving forward?

Grace Lee Khoo: [00:38:00] That necessity is the mother of invention, of innovation. And, you know, let's take that spirit of problem-solving of creativity and extend it to absolutely anyone and everyone. I mean, I think this pandemic has shown that we are not. No man is an island. We do need each other. Isolation and segregation is is a terrible, you know, state to be in. And unfortunately, that does happen to a lot of the members of the Deaf and disabled community and those with creative artistic talent being, you know, shunned or falling through the cracks. And, you know, hopefully we come out of this with this collective sense of care and duty and responsibility to really build access to all the individuals around us. And I know what is it that we do need to be able to do the best that they can do.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:38:54] Love to hear you. We'd love to hear your thoughts. Aamar, what's your main takeaway and what would you like people to our listeners to to think about after this conversation?

Ammar Ameezy: [00:39:03] I think that this whole new twist in the day don't relate to have everyone who came off light. We like that, you know, accessibility and be inclusive. It's really not that it's really not that tough to do. It is challenging. Yes, it is. But, you know, we can always overcome. Yes. And so I'm very well aware that this company, even with this started over Ivan, has no agenda, now that. Putting in caption is really a very daunting thing to do. Yes, I agree to it. But it's about time that, you know, you met this in its ability to make it like a normal thing. And that's what I think me and get in assess is trying to do. And so do you get to highlight your own. I've been about. You didn't know what? In fact, I think it would be Deaf because like that Deaf. I mean, usually hearing impaired is a negative word. And it's more of a medical term. Yeah. Deaf. What to use.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:40:11] Thank you, Ammar. And over to you, Ivan. Thank you, Ammar.

Ivan Heng: [00:40:16] Thank you, Ammar. I'm learning. I'm learning every day. And you know, my husband's Deaf. You. I think that I just want to say that artists are putting on a very brave front to all of this. You know, artists actually have no kind of because our entire, you know, kind of source of living is actually, you know, an audience. This has suddenly been taken away from us. And that isn't in many ways a possibility of making a living. So if you know, you can you know, if you watch a livestream, just give five dollars, two dollars, ten dollars, fifty dollars. And you can give more give more, because it will mean it will help these artists to continue to do the good work that they do. I think you can feel it on every single livestream that artists are giving with your heart and they're thinking about how to to to, you know, give you some joy and alleviate the anxiety and the, you know, boredom of these endless days so that, you know, in the hope that, you know, when we finally can meet together face to face, we can really kind of, you know, share in the experience of being human. So, you know, thank you very much, everyone.

Petrina Kow: [00:41:37] Thank you. How about you, Jo? Joanna, you mind telling us what what would you like us to know, like your listeners and our listeners?

Joanna Dong: [00:41:46] Well, I echo Grace's sentiment that no man is an island and also Ivan, Ammar's and Prashant. I mean, I think we all know noticed now more than before when we have to be physically isolated, that we cannot survive alone. We need other people. We not literally I think we often see this in theater. It takes a village. And I think right now the entire world is our village. And so, yeah, that's all I. I just can't wait to, you know, return to the embrace of all my friends and my colleagues. I want them to know that I cherish them now more than ever before. I will never take them ever for granted again. You know, because I could not do this without them. Yeah.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:42:32] Thank you. Yes. A warm embrace is something that I think we're all looking forward to right now. And we'd like to thank all of our guests, Ivan, Prashant, Ammar, Grace and Jonnna to our listeners. I hope you've enjoyed this new format. We'll definitely be continuing and improving in the weeks to come. In the meantime, please remember to like this podcast and submit a review. Feedback will definitely help us reach more people. You can subscribe to inclusively on Apple podcast and Spotify.

Petrina Kow: [00:43:00] Yet I also encourage you to like and follow the pages of, you know, Wild Rice. If you have in The Projector, Access Path Productions that, of course, Joanna Dong's Facebook and all her social media is. But I'd like to also, you know, end of today's show with a very special offering from Jo. So we'd like you to play or at least tell us about the song that you're going to offer to us, perhaps at this time. So what is this song about? And, yeah, why did you choose this for now?

Joanna Dong: [00:43:34] This is an original lyric that I wrote many years ago. You know, the title is, too. And the refrain goes, it takes two. It takes me and you. But I mean, it takes two is really just, you know, a placeholder for it takes many, many people. It takes everybody. It takes collaboration. And so I think that's the spirit I'd like to leave, you know, all of you with. And I hope that we can all meet in person really soon after this blows over.

Petrina Kow: [00:43:59] Thank you so much, Joanna. And thank you for this beautiful song. And thank you to all our guests. And thanks to you for listening. My name is Petrina Kow and I'm here. Thank you so much.