The coronavirus forced the education system to adopt home-based learning almost overnight. Could this new way of learning lead to better outcomes for student from low-income families? Hosts Petrina Kow and Laurindo Garcia examine whether home-based learning is the solution for a more inclusive education system with guests Felipe Cervera from Lasalle University, Secondary 2 student Yu Xiao Qian, Amanda Chong from Readable. A special musical performance is also offered by educator and composer of Wild Rice's Peter Pan Julian Wong.

TRANSCRIPT

Shiri Kenigsberg Levi: [00:00:00] MONOLOGUE IN HEBREW

Laurindo Garcia: [00:00:04] So that is the voice of Shiri Kenigsberg Levi. She is a mother of four in Israel who, as you can hear, is expressing her frustration. And that frustration is about how she's had to learn, you know, what seemingly was overnight, how to homeschool her kids. That clip came from a video that she initially shared via what's up to her group of friends. But inadvertently, that video got shared and ultimately got over three million views. When Sharon Stone and Victoria Beckham shared it through their respective social media feeds and I received that video while I was in still in New York in early March, and I immediately forwarded to one of my team members who was also having to struggle with homeschooling. I'm curious, Petrina, did you see did you see this video?

Petrina Kow: [00:01:04] Yeah, I eventually made its rounds to me and I absolutely feel her frustration, though. I thankfully have older kids, so I don't I'm not in her predicament. I mean, already it was kind of like. All right. You know, I mean, my my daughter is fine to 17. She's sort herself out. But like, I can't imagine with primary school kids are pre-school kids, like any of you have like four under the age of ten. Like, first of all, you have to have four working computers. You have good Emet. You're going to help log in, everybody. One on I can use. It's close to impossible. So I, I, I definitely feel her frustration.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:01:44] So welcome our listeners to another episode of Inclusively. If you've just tuned in, we've recently reinvigorated and renewed our format after a hiatus over March and April. We've changed the format to examine lessons learned from the coronavirus pandemic. And our goal right now is to imagine how these lessons that we've learned can contribute to a more inclusive world. If these things are sustained and scaled up. I'm your host, Laurindo Garcia

Petrina Kow: [00:02:13] And I'm Petrina Kow. And today's episode, I guess very aptly with that opening, is on education. And I think, you know, for me, education has been obviously it plays a very close. It is very close to my heart. My mother was an educator for many, many years. And now I am find myself in that position as well. And I think in my journey to find the best sort of educational path for my children, homeschooling, something that I've actually done with my with my daughter at least four when she was primary five in primary six. And I mean, at the time also, I kind of did a cheat version. I did actually do it myself. I found other people to educate my child. But I think back back then, I mean, this was like maybe like eight years ago now that on those online platforms were not as readily available, though. Now, when I speak to homeschooling parents. Most of them are getting schooled online with various different educators or just educational providers. So it's not a new concept. But I think for people who generally are used to, you know, normal school and being in a physical environment with everybody else having to suddenly switch and do that all from home will have immediate effects on both. Right. You know, just families and the students themselves. So it's definitely a huge sort of shift that everybody is finding themselves having to make.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:03:46] Exactly. And to set the stage in Singapore, at least, Home-Based Learning was implemented from April 8 for all students and one schools close who presented challenges for educators as well, who had to learn quickly how to deliver their their content online and overcome some of the assumptions that they had that their subjects could be taught in this fashion. Also, for parents having to then provide the backend, technical support and the coaching and all of these things and then the students as well. You know, all of a sudden being separated from there, from the classmates, from their friends, being an environment where there are many other distractions. And I think one thing that I've also observed is that how this situation then illuminates the situation for students from low income backgrounds. Many low income families live in smaller rental apartments. There is insufficient space for for privacy and conclusive study in these environments as well. For many of these families, they rely on loaned or donated computing devices. They may not have stable Internet. All of the time. And so and there are there other issues in there as well. So we're going to be tackling a number of these issues from a. No different perspectives today.

Petrina Kow: [00:05:01] Yeah, and I think best also to hear are from an actual student who are very happy to be joined also today by a Sec 2 student, Yu Xiao Qian, who will be sharing her story of what it's been like for her. And also, we have lawyer by day and educational champion by night. Miss Amanda Chong, who is a founder of a non-profit organization called Readable. And the mission is to beat poverty one word at a time through their reading literacy programs right here in Singapore. But for now, I'd like to introduce to you a dear colleague who is a lecturer of acting at Lasalle College of the Arts. Please welcome Dr Felipe Cervera.

Felipe Cervera: [00:05:41] Hello. Hi. Thank you for having me. Also, how are you. Yeah. Good, good. Very happy to be here.

Petrina Kow: [00:05:49] So how has it been like I mean I think for you guys dealing with that. I mean towards it was kind of close to the end of the semester where most of your students would be preparing to do their productions. Right. Their year end productions. And they were about to sort of like get into theatres to open. And then the lockdown. And so what was that like for you guys?

Felipe Cervera: [00:06:09] Well, actually, we started moving online very early on. Since. Singapore declared code orange, a.k.a. Dorscon Orange, and that already limiting our capacity to have students and numbers of students in the in the room along with a lecture. And, you know, I think that the best way to contextualize all of these is that as a teacher of theater, you can already appreciate very early on in the pandemic, they, in fact, that the impact that these will have to the very notion and practices of theatre and dance and performance and performing arts are naturally something that assembles people together. Right. And they assemble it right from the get go off on rehearsals to presentations to mingling after the performance. So coming coming to his essence and as a school of theatre, that also impacts because the the pillar of the ancillary pillar of any performance, pedagogy is to be in the same room with your lecturer, you're learning body to body. Right. And once you can, you can have that poses challenges. So what we did was very early on when Singapore declared Dorscon Orange. We move the theory classes online. We had limits of more than 25 people couldn't gather in the same room. This is before a social distancing. These before we, like the policies, began to be a bit more refined and complex in the immediate reactions. We weren't able to gather more than 25 people in the room. So naturally the theory classes were the easiest wants to transmit to nine. We started using soon as the rest of the world. Then eventually things started to escalate. We have two legs of productions every semester. Halfway through we have a round of shows and then at the end of the semester we have another round. By the time we hit the first round. So this is late February, mid mid-February, early mid Feb, late February. We weren't able to to to have audiences. So this this was a challenge because you have a production that has been has been rehearsing and by production is not only the actors, it's also the Fear Trap Production Management program, which we also have at Lassalle. So it's the actors. It's the designers. It's the a crew and you can't sacrifice. I mean, it therefore really gone through the rehearsal process, which is fundamentally in the learning experience. But the performance is a culmination of that experience. So it was it was a tricky negotiation. In the end, we decided to go ahead and have the productions without an audience and record them just for the purposes of of of of writing an assessment. Then we went into the process of staging the second leg of the productions, which also through the the the graduation shows, because, you know, this is the second semester of the academic year. So you have graduation shows of the dance program or the musical theatre program, of the acting program. Ah musical recitals. You have all the shows of graduation cohort. So. These. This for us was something very important to mind because it was not only one if if we were to sacrifice these productions because of the pandemic, it wasn't just another production. It was a production with which the students present themselves to the industry. And that's that's that's important. We went ahead planning with productions and then the lockdown happened the week of off of tech rehearsals for us. Yeah. Around. Well, not not for all of the shows, but around tech, we can, you know, the very, very last week or two weeks of the production process and we had to cancel. And so that that's. That was painful for us, for our students, because we appreciate was more. We're a big school in the size of the big picture of numbers. But our problems are relatively small. So, you know, the graduation call, the graduating cohort of the acting program, for instance, has 13 students. And you know that, that as a teacher, that makes you care for this, who is very, very deeply and you really feel sad for not being able to offer them the opportunity to culminate of training as as a stopgap solution. We we we went to produce some performances, the diploma in performance staged a version of the reunification of the two Koreas. That was very nice. Currently, the actors are preparing us song version of a new play by Chong Set Chan, House. So there's all these solutions. And I'll just be my intervention when I'm saying that there is I think that is very willing to be very aware that there is a distinction between the series of measurements that we're rolling out at all levels of education from basic middle, middle, high and higher education. All of these are emergency reactions and they have posed problems because we have problems of digitally literacies and we also have problems of digital capacity. This is what you were saying right in Singapore, because it's a wealthy nation. We tend to assume that everybody has a laptop. And furthermore, that everybody has a room to be in to study with the laptop. And we fail to realize that a significant part of the population doesn't have a laptop or has a shared laptop. And too, there is a real problem in Singapore is that we have a significant amount of students sharing their homes with three generations and you can't ask for privacy. So that's that's a challenge right now. But moving forward, we also need to realize that there's a distinction between online learning, distance learning in a formal setting, what distance learning program is and what we're doing. What we're doing is really just adjusting to the contingency. And online and home based learning is is is a reasonable tool to resolve the contingency. But it doesn't necessarily mean that we're moving to online teaching in the arts. Right. This is a significant distinction because in our community, that creates a lot of anxieties. If I go and tell my colleagues that, I think that we need to move online. Obviously, my colleagues are not going to be in agreement because how how can you possibly teach acting through a screen? I mean, you can teach acting for the screen, but not theatrical acting. Right. And so there's that pose challenges in the long run about higher education in the arts. But these are different. I think it's important to have a clear overview of where we're dealing.

Petrina Kow: [00:13:04] Yeah, I mean, I, I, I know that this conversation's happening in a huge way and being a hotly debated in the U.S. with my friends who are teaching in that, you know, the big sort of acting schools in the U.S. because they're looking at not even returning in the fall season. They're they're looking at maybe even 20. Right. And so so if that's the case, do they just shut down the schools? Do they continue online? Like, how do they and you know. And I've also heard from reactions of students who are in these acting schools writing for refunds or at least part of their fees, sort of at least given back to them, because this is not part of the education that they paid for. If they're going to get an acting degree and not know if it is being taught, you know, in a space that is satisfying or at least but will transfer the skills, then, you know, what do we do? What do we do with that? So with that in mind, I also want to bring in into the into the conversation another educator. He is a writer and composer of music and a brilliant musician. Mr. Julian Wong, who actually teaches music at ITV here in Singapore. So tell me, what has it been like? You know, the acting is one thing, but music.

Julian Wong: [00:14:16] Thanks for having me. I, I, I think it's it was very painful in the beginning. I have to be honest. I think you are pushed out of your comfort zone very quickly as an artist, as an as an educator, if, you know, even push like shove, you know, thrust it. I know all the government teachers tell me they had one day to try out home based learning and then they were told the next week, OK, they're going to do this for the whole month. And then a few days later, sorry, we cannot use Zoom anymore. So, you know, I, I find myself to having every day to learn something. You know, at first I went to. And then from Zoom to Google Hangout to see to so many things I've never heard of before. You know, in in my private teaching, I've I've found that some students work better with online, especially students who tend to be more introvert, you know. But I do feel that definitely I accomplish less in the same amount of time. And there was some discussion among teachers that, you know, we should really look at adjusting our fees a little bit, you know, because we are spending you know, if I'm teaching music, for example, I can't really give very specific feedback. I'm not I'm not fearing that kind of projection or the resonance, you know. And if you teach an instrument or just like that or, you know, if I teach the violin, especially to a young child. Right. You know, there's such liveliness in that that contact plays. That's important. But you have to grab the hand or the bow or the other wrist. Right. And you just cannot do that. And I know a violin teacher who told me that, you know, she's had to activate the parents a lot and have the parents in the in the room. And it can can you help to shift the wrist up a little bit? Or put the bow down? You know, I I found that this whole experience for me, I really had to look at what I can control and what I cannot and then forget what I cannot control and look at how I can adjust or level up my usual practice. You know, for example, with choirs, some of us do break up rooms for sectionals. Right. So I think the ten isn't a breakout room, but because of the technology, they all have to meet themselves while I play and sing to them. Right. I don't know if they're getting it. I also cannot ask them to sing back to me because Zoome sort of cuts everyone out if they speak at the same time, they sing at the same time. So that's always an issue. And also like what Filip. Felipe and Laurindo were saying that I think we assume that no, stay at home, then at home we assume that everyone's home is conducive. My godparents, both at primary school teachers and they have two children in primary school, probably five and probably three. So they've gone from one family laptop and sadly, all four need each a laptop to learn and to teach from. So that's been tricky.

Petrina Kow: [00:17:46] Yeah, it's that it's definitely one of those things where, you know, we and I don't know if this is something that at the end of our ministry obviously didn't have enough time to plan for. Maybe they were planning for it because I think there was a lot of discussion in our household list, you know, that it's like, hey, guys, when are you guys going to move to online learning about there's all this discussion going on. And I think, Felipe, you're I think I left I was probably on the earlier schools to sort of start to roll out those programs because we were just like widgets. We just kept speculating, okay, maybe next week. And he made me think me, you know, but nothing was happening. But even with my daughter's school, I think, you know, how come y'all are not like anytime now and and anytime now, you know, it's gonna happen. But then I. Oh, yeah, that testing. But even the teachers don't know it, so it doesn't inspire a lot of confidence at parents. Right. But yeah.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:18:34] Felipe, thank you for sharing the story and my heartbreaks when I had to hear about the cancellations of the of the shows and also, Julian. Thank you for sharing also about how you've had to adapt. And, you know, it really blew my mind when you were telling me about how you had to learn how to teach violin using Zoom. So please stay on the line. We're going gonna come back to you in a moment. I do want to shift the conversation and open up the conversation to hear about a perspective from a learner, a student. I'd like to welcome Xiao Qian to the show. Welcome. Thanks for joining us today. I'm just curious. So. So can you just help our listeners understand a little bit more about your context? So what year are you in at the moment?

Yu Xiao Qian: [00:19:20] I'm Sec 2 this year.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:19:21] Okay, fantastic. And can you describe for us what your homeschooling setup is like at your home right now? Can you paint a picture for us?

Yu Xiao Qian: [00:19:31] Well, it's just like a comp. A laptop in front and like, with. I have a table beside. Beside me. So I have two tables. So one table is for my laptop and like writing materials. Then another table is where all the worksheet are stored there. So that is easier for me to take when I'm having on life lesson with teacher. So I can take and just start doing the work.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:19:59] Ok. And then what's a typical. How or what's a typical day like for you. How. How are the lessons like? What's the the structure like?

Yu Xiao Qian: [00:20:08] So I think maybe having lesson is just like same as the normal school day. But the different things is that I can wake up later. I can wake up later and start doing work later we. So I think is kind of a good thing for us, for students because everyone wants to wake up later so that we can have more time to sleep. And then and also. But sometimes because I have a old laptop. So you will be very slow for me to like switch on and yeah, I have to wait. But then there was once I switch on the computer. Because I know that I might be late. So I wake up early to switch on the computer to wait for it. So. But in the end I was late for class because it was still uploading. So I was late for class. But I'm thankful that Readable, they did give us a new laptop for us to use. So you'll be faster and better for for my HBL.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:21:23] How did you find out about Readable?

Laurindo Garcia: [00:21:24] So that they said, place called catch far centre.

Yu Xiao Qian: [00:21:29] It's like a student care where. Uh. They have lessons. There's tuitions for us. So Readable is one of the tuition. Ya And now my friends asked me to join Readable because they say it's like it's fun. And we learn a lot of things from there. That's how I know about Readable.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:21:50] Okay. And without the. Without the laptop that you received from Readable, what would have this period, this homeschooling period been like for you? Can you imagine what it would have been like?

Yu Xiao Qian: [00:22:04] I wouldn't have like. I wouldn't have like lessons because the laptop is really like, really, very old. So the laptop will keep on like uploading a new version or something. So it really takes a lot of time. So I thing I wouldn't have like a full lesson. And actually the lessons. I feel like, oh, sometimes I didn't learn a lot because. Because when you have questions, some teachers they don't allow you to talk. So they ask you to type in the chat. But then sometimes like uh. There are some questions that is easier to ask. Like face to face. It's very hard to type out. So that's why sometimes I don't really understand some of the things that I will ask my friends or like other teachers.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:22:58] How are you keeping in contact with your friend during this period?

Yu Xiao Qian: [00:23:02] So I usually use WhatsApp to chat with them. We also chat about homeworks. We don't really chat about other things. Because uh. Because I'm also scared that they might be busy with their own work. I have other stuff to do, so I don't want to disturb them and so we only chat. We don't really video call each other and talk about like other stuff.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:23:28] And and how is the your family coping with your home schooling situation as well and how you know, and having to provide support for you during this period.

Yu Xiao Qian: [00:23:40] So my mom here, she's like she's a cleaner. But she's different from the normal cleaner. You know, she works at people's houses who clean for them. And because of the Circuit Breaker, because she cannot go out to work anymore. They she have to stay at home to like spend time with me. And I know it's kind of a bad thing because there's no income at all. But ah like. But I'm thankful for Teacher Amanda. Because she. She find friends to help me, pay my school fees. Because I'm a foreigner. So my school fees is quite high. It's like 1000 plus a month. And because my mom can not go to work. And we don't have enough money to pay for the school fees. And Teacher Amanda find her friends to, like, give some money to me and help me. So I'm really thankful for that. And for my mom. She. I think that it's not really a bad thing that she can not go out to work. Because when she go out to work I don't really have enough time to spend with her. Because she go out in the morning and she come back, really, very late. So we didn't get to, like, talk to each other a lot. And now she has a lot of time with me. And I feel that. After. During this Circuit Breaker. I understand her better because we we spent time together and we think we know each other more.

Petrina Kow: [00:25:20] Do you and do you have siblings? Sorry.

Yu Xiao Qian: [00:25:24] I have a older brother. But he's working looking China.

Petrina Kow: [00:25:27] I see.

Yu Xiao Qian: [00:25:28] So he's not with me.

Petrina Kow: [00:25:29] So it's just you and mom here at the moment.

Yu Xiao Qian: [00:25:31] Yeah.

Petrina Kow: [00:25:32] Right. OK, well no. That suddenly is so wonderful to hear that. I mean, it's, it's always when you hear these stories that, you know, you you, you know, we understand that. I mean, I think I recently saw this post that was, you know, we're all we're all in the same storm, but we're not in the same boat. Right. I mean, we're all experiencing the effects of Covid 19, but everybody is having a very, very different experience. So, I mean, you've mentioned a few times this mysterious teacher, Amanda, perhaps now is a good time to talk to you. Amanda, thank you for what you do with readable and, you know, connecting us with your chin and, you know, making education, you know, a fundamental thing. Right. Like, so to be so take for granted is something that we complain about endlessly in Singapore. Right. But yet, you know you know, when you hear a certain story, you feel like, you know, yes, there is there is so many people who are fighting so hard. Right. To just get online. It's the basic thing of getting online to tell me what it's been like for for you guys. It readable in terms of your own programs and your outreach and how you guys have been running your own programs, you know,

Amanda Chong: [00:26:47] So Readable as a non-profit organization. And we're all volunteers and we've been working in the Chinatown Jalan Kukoh neighborhood for us since 2014. So this is our seventh year off of operating in that neighborhood. And we typically run language arts classes our every Saturday. So we teach from pre-school upwards until the Readable Champions, which is our teen program, which Xiao Qian is part off. And all of this is very interactive. Real life lessons. But we've also had to move our operations online. And one of the things that we also noticed was that a lot of our kids did not have laptops. So before the HBL program started, know with MOE, jump. Just saying that everyone has to be online now. We managed to distribute laptops to 40 children that we had and our care and we were really very thankful for donations from the public. And we actually managed to get some of the kids laptops, which are nicer than our own personal laptops. So I think that's that's wonderful that that happened. And it's just testament to wonderful donors who bought brand new laptops for their kids or gave really good laptops to the kids. And that was just so vital for the children because many of them never and never had a laptop at home or like Xiao Qian's experience. Xiao Qian's laptop she'd had it since she was in Primary One. So, you know, it was already malfunctioning and we had a lot of those stories apart from that. We also heard stories about some of our kids not doing home based learning in an environment where they're like nine people living in a one room flat. And then the challenges of being able to listen to your class. So, you know, we've had to distribute our phones as well. And also even getting online, we take it for granted, you know, with with Wi-Fi, with 3G. We've had many students whose parents were actually in arrears for their Wi-Fi bill. So they were not able to connect to the Internet. And so we jumped in with Wi-Fi dongles. And it's really just been troubleshooting like for the first couple weeks. I was just getting everyone online. And then it became, how do we take our lessons online? And so my teammates. And each each group got various challenges. So those running the preschool class, it's how do you keep the children engaged on an online class? Right. And for our preschool levels, we teach both literacy and numeracy in our program comfortable. And we've used to run them as two separate classes. But we had to combine them into one because we realized that the children were not going to be engaged for several hours online, because usually we we we conduct our lessons in a very kinesthetic way. So, you know, we have circle time. Have song. We have dance. And we use blocks to teach numeracy. But we don't even have these things when you do a Zoom class, right? So we have to reform the classes. And I personally teach the champions, which is the teens class. And again, we've had to modify it. But what I found pretty cool was that, you know, we can actually write together using Google Docs. So we just end up trying to explore what opportunities that are in the online space and using online tools. So now we use a combination of whiteboarding on Zoom, as well as breaking out into smaller groups for like one on one attention as the teams develop their own Covid reflections. And we're able to talk through an edit. As the teams are writing. So what you. And essay with Xiao Qian using that method. And going back to the theme of the arts. I know a couple of people who represent the arts of. What was really exciting for me was that we were able to watch local plays with our kids online. And, you know, the whole concept of putting plays online. Right. Because they're actually a lot of teens and children who do not have access to the ads, usually because it is expensive in Singapore. And Wild Rice has has actually helped, our Readable kids have access to that. Yes. So every year you see the mine. And know wonderful memories of the pantomime. Xiao Qian has been to several herself. And now we weren't able to introduce the kids to sort of more things, different types of theater, not just pantomime. So we saw Haresh Sharma's play Those Who Can't, Teach. And this week you watch Supervision. And I think it's it's really fun that we get to watch these things together and then discuss them. And this wouldn't really have happened if we were all not sat at home. Right. Because like now, when I asked when I'm like, what's keeping the teens? And I'm like, hey, let's watch a. And they can give me any excuse that there's something else to do because they don't like everyone. Sure. Of Zoom. And that's and that's what's just pieced together and discuss it. And, you know, I put. I really enjoyed listening to kind of reflections that the kids have on please. And I think that just opens up a whole new kind of universe that wouldn't have been opened up otherwise.

Petrina Kow: [00:32:04] Yeah, no, that's amazing. You said that because we just had a conversation in our first episode with them, Ivan, and in various different arts practitioners of of the theater companies and how they've responded to that and how they've managed to put you know, they definitely weren't expecting the the the response that they were getting, because there's always this fear with theatre company is putting their play online that, you know, it's just not the same. Right, guys? So don't expect this to be a multi-million dollar camera, you know, like production. But I think what what we did find in terms of that connection, like you said, was that it is completely finding a brand new audience for the people who don't normally consume art this way. And so so 10 fun fact. Munky goes West is is starting tonight. They're putting Monkey Goes West. And I think Julian was the musical director. Right, for Monkey. No, you're not. You you laugh. You were for many others. It's very likely you would have watched something that Julian was the pocket we saw Peter Pan last. So I said, oh yes, I wrote I wrote that.

Amanda Chong: [00:33:10] Ya. Xiao Qian do you remember seeing Peter Pan in Serangoon Gardens last year? This Julian, I can't really point to him. What's the composer? He composed the songs on Monkey. On . So Julian, the composer songs on Peter Pan. Wild Rice.

Julian Wong: [00:33:30] So she's so excited you can see her. Oh, my God. The stuff. He I mean, I thought the music and Peter Pan was with some of the most beautiful that I've heard. Honestly, you are a genius, Julian. I am not. I'm not shy to say you're not shy, but. But yeah. And I think that's wonderful. You mention that because the arts really does have. I mean, in a way, the way you've approached that of teaching and with preschool, there's so much of it is like you you said in that sort of kinesthetic way, we use song and dance and music, you know, so I think for sure, at least for for preschool. Like I said, I don't know how to teach preschool on an online environment because just thinking of even pressures, outdoor time, you know, for them in nature, which is something I think Singaporean kids don't get enough of anyway. Right. We're so used to be an air conditioned rooms. But I think it's wonderful that, you know, we've. Whilst we've had so many challenges. We've also found sort of new ways to engage with our students. I'm wondering if that was something that you experienced while putting that through your your curriculum in the online space for both Julian and Felipe. Like, did you find that it was more just, okay, we'll just make two? Or did you feel that? Okay, maybe the online space has opened up new things for your students or you've been able to connect in different ways?

Felipe Cervera: [00:34:49] Yeah, I think I think two things. First is, a, I think it just called the point that moving theater online, if if deployed properly and deployed smartly, as the companies in Singapore have, is really about gathering new audiences and inviting people that don't regularly think of the theater as a place to hang out, to hang out. But I should also say that there needs to be follow up with an awareness of the arts because of the higher education. And we have companies collapsing because productions were cancelled. And so our funding was caught. Actors are not getting paid. Directors are jobless, designers who are jobless. So, you know, we're adults. How we're graduating actors into an industry that has these biron at the moment. So one on the one hand, online theater is making it such a positive impact on on on the on the lower levels of education in higher education. It's a massive crisis. Global. Right. I mean, just to give you a sense, Singapore has one BA acting, one BA in musical theatre, one BA in theatre study. All the other theatre programs in the JCs, the Intercultural Theatre Institute. Sorry two BA  in act. The ones NAFA, diplomas in performance. Singapore graduates hundreds of theatre makers every year. And right now there's not a. The industry is shut down. So if the second effort to build audiences is also to be all donations, because next year the art, the art scene in Singapore is heavily at risk. That's that's one. And secondly, to answer your question, Petrina is a yes. So certainly I think that the first legs of the crisis was where reactive. And I would initially, as things were, to force-feed everything. What we do, put it online however you can. Right. And obviously, that led to discoveries like, oh, OK. So online learning is much more about independent study. So, all right. So I don't lie in a technique class. I can I can show the technique counting that the students are of a certain level and know the technique already and then they can go on and practice and send videos. Right. And we need to leverage that to avoid retraining. So the student is not doing things wrong. Right. Even the individual. So that that eventually, not only Singapore, but globally, led to a really cool stuff. There is softwares, currently. Platforms, currently. The programs are putting lectures like just shots, snippets or a like an online lesson that go to, you know, breathing lessons, technique lessons, voice lessons, acting lessons. There are obviously not a substitute to the face to face synchronous teaching, but that opens an entire area of performance training that we didn't really have. Fear out there is asynchronous learning because that's another thing. Rather, we thought that the online transit has to be synchronous. Right. What we're doing right now, talking at the same time, but not necessarily. Once you think online, you're opening. Also, the possibilities of a student learning by themselves. And so that's that's something also very important to think about and something that I recommend that the teachers that are under MOE have also discovered. Is that this is not your only to rely always to me seeing the student. Right. You can also rely on independent learning and your hands that so, you know, metacognitive skills, critical thinking, problem solving. One of the other things that can go online much better. Right. And another thing that I have discovered in my classes is that the the online environment also opens the entire world literally. Right. I had a few weeks ago, I had a research seminar with my students and I had a colleague from Belgium giving them a talk. Then after that, a colleague from Tokyo after that calling from Singapore, the chat groups also put international connections. So I had this about an experiment that I've been conducting, pre pandemic. That is, I have a colleague in Florida, a colleague in Australia, Sydney, teaching my students are being of like facilitators of activities using telegram and what's up? So the classroom becomes like a flip guardroom series. Come to me. And with this course of other projects by the creation of a project is happening in mentorship with someone in Australia. Right. And that does really good. But that gives a global awareness that the student that is, you know, is really positive.

Petrina Kow: [00:39:49] Yeah. That it it is possible. How about you Julian, have you found that you've if like anything about moving things online.

Julian Wong: [00:39:56] You know what I realized about this process? I learned so much from my kids because they learn so fast, I am sure. So tell you what you know about this Padlet and quizzes and Kahoot. Right. You're all into it now. And it was it was an 11 year old who had to teach to be. Yeah. This what we do in she taught me how to share screen in whiteboard on Zoom, you know, and without them I would not be able to to to have all these skills that these extra tools. I think it's it's it's also important to know in this time that, you know, the very science that says that it's dangerous for us to to gather and do the things that we used to do. It is also that the science that will move us forward with we've thrived and performed through terrible infectious diseases before, you know, measles, polio and all that. I this period should be so much that as educators, resilience is is so important that, you know, putting that in the curriculum, the process of becoming and helping students believe they are worthy and capable of overcoming challenges. And how can the arts bring out the best of us in this worst of times, whether it's music, theatre or reading? I think. I think these things the goal is to think beyond individual differences. You know, life is bigger than yourself. And if we can apply these values in the spirit of collaborating more effectively, making changes, then then there'll be less people who are left behind. You know, in prepare, I went to the website of Be Inclusive and I was reading some of the research that Laurindo had done. And it was quite shocking. And I, like only one per cent of businesses, know how to activate jobseekers, consumers from underrepresented groups. And there's a lack of resolve, a lot of excuses among leaders to translate words into action. I think sometimes it takes a crisis like this, you know, when it's literally life and death. But you've no choice to show that it's not impossible. It is a lot of work on our part. And and it's a lot of work to put in that extra effort. You know, as a teacher told me, to go from groan zone to growth zone. You know, we you know, it's so much easier to stay in the groan zone. And I mean, look at Wild Rice talked about. I just now it's I think they're the most inclusive theatre company I've worked with from the different kinds of performance for the deaf that touch to us in the audio narration for the blind. The sensory friendly performances for audiences on the spectrum. The full wheelchair accessible audience and actors. You know, it's it's a lot of it, but it can be done. Necessity is the mother of invention. Now that we are now forced to change by this challenge, we die a day. We'll find the possibility and create the alternative. Know, and I think this should not stop when we go back to normal. Because who knows what the new normal will be. Germany. Church, as I said, they said no singing the National Association of Singing Teachers said there until there's a vaccine 95 percent chance that we cannot get together and sing, you know, and then will audiences return to a theater or a concert hall? Maybe the question we should ask is, how do we present music to an audience in a socially distanced whole or financially? Is it even possible they know it will indelibly affect the nature of our work and our practice? You don't have to move away from large venues, you know, cut labor management, cut marketing budgets, you know, because there's no sense in marketing something so strongly. If your original venue can only sit 25 percent of that capacity. I think. So many issues to think about.

Petrina Kow: [00:44:05] VR man. Virtual reality. I mean, you know, absolutely and and I love that you mention all those in, you know, inclusively angles as well as it's something you wanted to weigh in on Lau.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:44:18] Yeah, I'm just curious. I mean, Felipe and Julian, thank you so much for sharing the lessons that you've learned over the last couple of months. I want to bring Amanda back into the conversation here. You have been advocating for changes in the education sector for such a long time and based on some of the things that educators are doing differently these days. I'd like you to imagine what you would do if you had the magical power to change the education sector, but you only had that power for 100 days. I mean, what would be some of the things that you would want to implement while you had that magic wand in your hand?

Amanda Chong: [00:44:58] Wow, what a weighty questions.

Petrina Kow: [00:45:00] Limited power. Why only 100 days.

Amanda Chong: [00:45:04] And I also think that 100 days thing is is a huge constraint, because I think the kinds of changes that need to happen in the education system have to go way beyond that. And I really do think that for me, what I find problematic is, is streaming. And I'm glad to see the education system moving away from that, because I don't think that kids should be categorized and taught their limits about who they are in terms of their identity and what they can do and what they are good at. I'm not good at. So are the on. And I really do believe in increasing resourcing to schools that are not elite schools. I think if we're going to see that every school is a good school, then we need to actually make it, practically speaking. That's why not just use it as better. And, you know, it's very interesting for me because one of the players that we watched was those who can teach by the necessary speech. And that was about teachers teaching in a neighborhood school and there reflections on that. And that opened up the space for some of my students and I, including Xiao Qian, and to discuss the differences between the schools as well as neighborhood schools. And I think one of the key things actually SRN said when I asked her what are the changes that we need in the education system or what does she think makes a good teacher? And she actually said and I'm going to just your answer, because I think it's really good, is that she said that ultimately she believes that teachers need to have hope in their students and not just one kind of hope, because I think the impression that our education system now is that there's one mode of success, which is academic. Right. So we just hope for their student success. The impression maybe that they hope that they succeed academically. But the thing is that students have so many other ways that in me thrive and succeed outside this academic measurement. Right. It could be that they have talents in the arts, that they're really good at cooking, that they're going to pursue a career that is completely unheard off today because it just hasn't been invented yet. And I think the biggest change that has to happen is for teachers to really have that space to cultivate talents in their children and to give and to have that room in the classroom to a far different types of success and not just the academic type of success. And I know that they're fantastic teachers currently in the Singapore education system. But I think when you have so many buttons on them in terms of teaching content curriculum, it is very hot to do that walk off like affirming children and and kind of showing them different paths to success. Right. And I think maybe we need to reduce the content in our classrooms and cultivate more relationships.

Petrina Kow: [00:47:58] Yeah. And I'm so glad you said that because I think, you know, thinking about what Julian and Felipe has offered us as well, is this idea that actually it doesn't have to be so content heavy in class. Right. You can do all that stuff online. You can see. All right. Make sure by the time you come to class, you finish reading like this bit of this page. Right. And then, like, put some reflections, like, you can take that out of the space that we share together and then cloud the classroom situation can be completely transformed. I'm just very quickly going to just share that experience about watching my son. He has traditionally not performed very well in just general schools and classrooms, but yet everything that he's become proficient and great at. He's learned on his own in his own time through the YouTube. Everything from skateboarding to magic tricks, to the Rubik's Cube, to the drums to guitar. He has learned from YouTube, you know. And so it's getting him a music teacher was a very recent thing because he really had a certain level of skills. But. So so in a wave, this online platform, it seems a foreign issue to two educators, yet just watching my son, I know that he is performed very well. Learning that way. It still does not, you know, replace, I think, having somebody help mold you and inspire you. But I think it really does sort of inspire me, at least as an educator, to to think about how we can use the online platform in a much more inclusive and, you know. Yeah, sort of like creative ways. Right. So in a way, just blowing it right wide open and just, you know, getting input even from our students to say, what can we do together. Right. Stuff like that. So I think before we wrap, is there anything you wanted to add, lol?

Laurindo Garcia: [00:49:47] No, no. I think before we wrap, I would love to hear from each of our guests. And really what we'd like to hear before we end the show is one thing you'd like our listeners to know based on what you've heard from today's conversation. I'd like to start with Felipe, if that's okay.

Felipe Cervera: [00:50:05] Yeah, thanks. I have two thoughts. The first one is just to echo what Petrina just said. I think it's super important. And one of the ways in which we can make this equation much more inclusive is to distribute time, time in the computer, time of the computer. Right. Home based learning is known as highly online. Online is a medium. But you also have the rest of the day to something to consider. There is that traditional teaching implies that the means of instruction is the same means of learning. But distance teaching is these associates that write instruction is hard. Something else. About having a companion, a tutor to touch base with learning happens elsewhere. And the second way is that just as how, at least in Singapore, the government reacted very quickly with funding for digital performance and somehow making livelihood's available. I would like to hope that the follow up reaction when, as is highly, be funding to reactivate a public space. And in that sense, I think that is also important to the future, ready and be thinking of the ways in which performance heals. The ways in which performance reassembles. The way in which performance occupies public space. Because even though things will change, the public space will remain. The public space and is is at least in Singapore, is such a cornerstone part of living in this city that you will need to be reactivated. And, you know, the performing arts are probably one of the first ones.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:51:47] Thank you. Thank you, Felipe. How about you Xiao Qian what would you like our listeners to know based on what you've heard today?

Yu Xiao Qian: [00:51:54] I think everyone needs to have like openness. I think, especially teachers. Because if teachers don't have openness. They don't like believe in the. They don't believe in their. Students. Thinking that they succeed in their own ways. And they will only believe that they can only succeed if that academic is good, then I think they because I heard a lot of my friends and so myself think that, oh, well, this teacher, that's not like me. So then that makes me to like. Not really. I listen to that teacher. Or like do their work properly. So so I. I think it's not like to see that he just must meet students like them. But I think teachers should believe in their students. Because my friends. They already. Because this subject they didn't do really well. And the teachers were like scold them. Or like. Maybe say that. They directly say that oh you didn't work hard. But they will use another way to. To. To say that. Oh you oh you didn't work hard. So. I think they are trying make us try our best to so that our academic will be very good. But I think. Like some students like me, if I don't really like their teacher, I won't really like. Pay so much attention to class because I think, oh, the teacher already don't like me. So why should I put in the effort. What do you study well. Sometimes I will feel like that.

Petrina Kow: [00:53:39] Yeah. No I think that's all of us. It's just only human. We also feel like the two bosses. Well also don't like us. We also don't want to do the work. Well, how about you, Julian?

Julian Wong: [00:53:54] You this building on what Xian Qian said. One of the things that I really noticed this period is how empowered my students are. You know, I realized because I can do so many things for them anymore. You don't that it's you know, it's you warm up before you meet me on line or you watch this instructional video and then we use that time on line to talk and discuss it. I cannot go in supervisor recording's. You have to go and call your friend, set up the Zoom and do it yourself. And actually, they're very good at it, you know, so that's made me reflect as a teacher, as an educator, maybe even in my normal practice, I shouldn't be holding my students heads so much. You know, we just know what Amanda and Felipe really said really struck me. You know, I I think if there's one thing I want people to know is that non-essential doesn't mean not important, you know, because in much the theaters were among the first things to be shut down and labeled purely as entertainment venues. And I remember I was recording in a studio at that time and the news came out. I thought, what did that performing arts just become a luxury? You know, it's so much more than this. As Felipe and them in that shed, you know, theater, music, literary arts, and inculcating a love for these things. It's important in our world. We are often untouched by the problems of others. You know, we live in the world of data that leaves us disconnected, overwhelmed. Sometimes we seldom feel a part of the we but a good play like those who can't teach or a good novel or painting or a piece of music, it makes the world felt. And that feeling spurs discussion, empathy, thinking, engagement and action. Those are relevant and crucial values that should not be put on hold when we deal with a crisis. You know, I think about the Great American Songbook. If you listen to sounds like cheek to cheek, all begin to begin. I got rhythm. Without knowing anything about history, you wouldn't know that there was a Great Depression. You know, on the one hand, there were artists who accepted and engage directly with the realities of the depression. Edward Hopper, the painter, said the province of art is to react to life, not to shun it. But some artists also choose flight over fight, right. Among other important things, it cannot be measured in sheer economic terms. Art serves as an escape for some, you know, escapism of a terrifying reality. And and that is an equally valuable reflection off in reaction to a crisis which can be very paralyzing. So in whatever way we choose, it's I think non-essential doesn't mean not important in whatever way we choose. The arts helps us to make sense of the world, you know, and know that we're in this period of disruption. It forces us to explore and make discoveries and make mistakes. And like T.S. Eliot said, at the end of all, exploring is to come back to where we started and know it for the first time. And I think it'll be very interesting for us to see that and hear that and feel that when we come back to it.

Petrina Kow: [00:57:19] Oh, that was so beautifully put. I feel like I. I can't wait. I can't wait till I'm like I dream about the moment when I'm like, yeah, I'm like sitting in the theater, like with the lights dark and I like, ah, that moment, you know, like it's it's so visceral but yeah. It's so real. Thank you for thank you for putting that. That way. I really love that Amanda.

Amanda Chong: [00:57:42] Well I think I'm echoing the sentiments of quite a few of the guests that you have today. I think having to reset our patterns because of Home-Based Learning actually forces us to listen to each other a bit more. At least that's what I had to do as a teacher. I had to speak to the students to find out what. How exactly do they want to use this time and space that we have together? And then upon doing that, I discovered that the students are incredibly s direct, that they have their own interests and passion. It's a seven year old boy who I taught how to read when he was each four. He tells me that he's interested in philosophy. And so we've actually arranged philosophy classes for this boy. He's incredibly bright and he's learning about ethics, metaphysics and epistemology. And I told him he's 10 years old. I mean, I've never I didn't know these wasn't seven years or and I never would have thought that this would be something that I was interested in. You know, if I did not actually take the time to ask and I probably would not have had to ask him, you know, if I want in the second book context and thinking about how I should use this online space. And I think that similarly, I'm just impressed all the time at the kind of self directness and the capacities that my students have like Xiao Qian, for example. You know, I found out just before Circuit Breaker got that she had been trying to teach herself how to play the piano. And she actually watches YouTube videos and she wished for affordable keyboard for a Christmas wish list last year so that she could play along with these YouTube videos. And I saw in her house that she had actually drawn up a musical staff, you know, with all the notes. And this is a girl who has never had the chance to have formal musical lessons. Right. And and then, you know, we managed to contact connect with someone who is a trained chemist. And for them to do piano lessons. Right. And it just impresses upon me as someone who's in the education space that, you know, we need to listen to our students, that they have their own passions, they have their own dreams. And our role is really to follow along with that and to just show them what they can become and be the first person to say, yes, I think you can be a pianist. You know, like it doesn't matter that you're only using affordable care. No, I believe that there will be a day that you could replay an entire song. Yeah. So I think that's what this time and space outside of our normal patterns has shown me.

Petrina Kow: [01:00:18] Yeah. Now, that's so inspiring. So I should just keep I should I should allow my son to keep doing his magic. Is that right?

Amanda Chong: [01:00:28] Yes, definitely. Who knows? He could go to Las Vegas.

Petrina Kow: [01:00:34] It's day in and day out. Mommy. Mommy. Pick a card, pick a card. And I'm like. Oh, okay. All right. So thank you all so much for your sharing and your stories and for, you know, just some of the insights have been so, so transformative, I think. And I mean, I'm I'm so moved just listening to all of you. And and just to just to sweeten the deal a little more. We have a very special song that's prepared by Julian. Julian, do you want to tell us a little bit more about the song?

Julian Wong: [01:01:08] Because Laurindo asked if I could do a little performance and I was thinking, what? What could I possibly do? When I ask you a lot about the educators I have spoken with and discuss issues with him and, you know, especially the ones that teach in government schools, they all tell me about, you know, as they are scrambling to get things in order. This is all being written in real time by the non educators, which then, you know, throws them all over the place and it creates extra stress for them. And they all tell me one thing, that it's the little things that let know when students and parents say thank you. The school's appreciate the effort and the families and their own families be understanding, you know, that money can take care of you today. I mean, it's a big battle class, you know, so and even as I make that transition and teach and teaching online day to day, I find that I'm still taking little steps to improve. So I'm constantly reminded during this period it's the little things that make a big difference. I remember there's a song from Sesame Street called Little Things. And so I you know, it's nice to hear a Sesame Street song. I go back to a simpler times. So this is The Little Things by Joe Reposo.

Julian Wong: [01:02:29] JULIAN WONG SINGING LITTLE THINGS BY JOE REPOSO

Petrina Kow: [01:04:09] I forgot about that song. That was such a beautiful song, and you sang that beautifully. Thank you so much.

Julian Wong: [01:04:14] Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you all. Be nice to meet all of you.

Petrina Kow: [01:04:17] Yes. Felipe. Amanda Chong, thank you. And Xian Qian. My name is Petrina Kow. Thanks for listening.

Laurindo Garcia: [01:04:23] I'm Laurindo Garcia. Thank you for listening. Please remember to like us. Like this podcast. Share a review. You can subscribe to us on Apple Podcast, Spotify and also YouTube. And we will catch you next time. Thank you very much.