A heartbreaking tale of pending closure of a fabulous bakery, hawker stalls who cook for social good and a vision of a future where you can pick fresh durians on every street for free.

All this and more as hosts Petrina Kow and Laurindo Garcia examine how lessons learned from the coronavirus could ensure no one goes hungry in a post-pandemic world. Guests: Juwanda Hassim -Fabulous Baker Boys, Jason Chua - Beng Who Cooks, Siew Yen Chong - food poverty volunteer, Bjorn Low - Edible Garden City and musician, Joshua Simon.

TRANSCRIPT

*SOUND EFFECTS: MOTORCYCLE*

Laurindo Garcia: [00:00:05] In the time of Covid 19 delivery bikes are now the king of the road. Home delivery was previously viewed as a luxury. But now delivery bikes from Foodpanda delivery to Grab Food are all essential services, and millions of people rely on them to get the food that they need to bring to the table. So, Petrina, I want to ask you, has how is food delivery usage changed for you during the and then haha.

Petrina Kow: [00:00:31] Interestingly, I think I found that we, we try and deliver less now because we, we also are very cognizant of the wastage with all the packaging material. So in fact so, so my cooking, as you know, if you're following on social media, has been up several levels. No, I mean I just have to provide for a family. So I cook a lot more now. And so if we do buy takeout, we we we kind of use that as an opportunity to go and pick up the food so that we can kind of like work in a trip out of the house, you know, legitimately. Right. As we're kind of being locked down. So, yeah, I, I we try and deliver as little as possible if we can. And if we can't, we just get stuff delivered anyways. Yeah. So yeah,

Laurindo Garcia: [00:01:18] On our end it's been more of a special treat. We are eating at home more and cooking for ourselves, which has been really good. But for me I one of the people who's had to celebrate their birthday in isolation. And so I took that as an opportunity to look for a special meal that usually I wouldn't have had a home delivery. But I was really quite surprised at what was available. It was a 12 course vegan Korean meal that was delivered to the door, you know, piping hot. And it was really quite amazing. So I was really quite awed by what was what was available. So, yeah, there's some of the things that you do during during the pandemic. But I also want to welcome everyone to another episode of inclusively in this series. First of all, my name is Laurindo Garcia. And this series, we are asking the question how people are changing the way that they work or do business during the pandemic and what lessons that you've had you have learned that have the potential to make the post pandemic worldwide.

Petrina Kow: [00:02:23] Yeah. And hello, everyone. My name is Petrina and this topic is very close to my heart. As a big food lover and food eater myself, so I'm very excited about today's episode because we have guests from all over the world joining us and we have some really wonderful local heroes that are going to chat with as well.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:02:45] So before we kick off with the interviews, it's going to kind of set the tone here. So before the pandemic, you know, according to The Economist, you know, food was generally more affordable around the globe for four people more than ever before, and fewer people were hungry than previous generations. So it's according to the most recent edition of The Economist. But all that has changed because the pandemic, as you've heard there, have been empty supermarket shelves and wet markets due to the panic buying during the early days of the pandemic. And now several months after that, one trillion dollar global food supply chain has demonstrated its present resilience with some really fast adaptations to me by companies. But all that being said, there are still some risks that lie in food security and less so on the supply side, but definitely on the demand side. It's no surprise for people to hear that they've been massive job losses. Now people have lost their income and have less money to spend on food. And the United Nations just announced last month that they are worried that the number of people who were at risk of hunger has doubled as a result of the coronavirus. They're estimating that 265 million people are at risk of hunger. Hunger now as a result of changes have been happening in the world. And underlying thread in all of this is that there are hundreds there's a possibility of higher food prices if food exporting countries start imposing export restrictions. So that's really giving us a big picture of what what is the subtext of our conversation today?

Petrina Kow: [00:04:21] Yeah, and also in today's episode, we'll be speaking with two local food outlets on how they've adapted to the situation, whether or not they have to endure sort of closures or how they've kind of responded to the community around them. And we'll also be hearing from a Singaporean living in London, a dear, dear friend of mine who's also very involved with food and teaching low income families there how to cook healthy and delicious meals for under a pound a day.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:04:49] We'll also be speaking to a pioneer for urban farming who's also joining and a social entrepreneur who's joining us from Australia. And later on in the show, we'll be hearing from musician Joshua Simon. He'll be sharing his perspective on food during the time of Covid 19 and also offering us a song.

Petrina Kow: [00:05:04] Yeah. Can't wait. But first, my absolute pleasure to introduce the one and only Fabulous Baker Boy Juwanda Hassim. Hello, darling.

Juwanda Hassim: [00:05:04] Hello, Petrina. Hello, Laurindo.

Petrina Kow: [00:05:19] Yes. So for those of you who were from Singapore, you might have indulged in many of his cakes before. I think that's what he's known for. Its legendary row, shelves of deliciousness. And his lovely cafe sits at the bottom of Fort Canning Hill. And I think he's definitely experienced all kinds of things. Give given the last three or four weeks of mayhem. So perhaps, Juwanda, you could just tell us a little bit about, you know, you were able to keep going and then you couldn't. How have you pivoted? How have you made sort of adjustments and changes in how are you doing?

Juwanda Hassim: [00:06:00] So when when the virus first broke out, it was so clear in January and February mean somebody was coming. Oh. What the situation was going to be. Business was great because we're we're we're not as affected as the malls or an enclosed space because we're being we're to the park. So we're outside. So people were not included in the area. There wasn't any air conditioning outside. People come into my area. I saw a lot of people sort of come come with their families, family support simply in the park. The average started decreasing. And 10, 20 per cent, but we're still OK. Then social distancing started. And that really hit. The. Then so sorry. Then the MBS tower closed. You know, that day when the government just closed all buildings because, once one floor was affected. And then the next day, the repercussions was immediate because we have nobody lunch. Everybody was made to work from home, mostly because we were located near the business district. Not so much where people lived. So in that when that happened, this was dropped maybe 30, 40 percent. And then the weekend we saw a resurgence. Right. Because people still wanted to come out. People who were worried about people needed to get out a bit. So people still ordered their cakes. People still came out and that was a first week and then the second week they implemented the social distancing. And that was immediate for us because we had a shut. We were not allowed to open until everything was checked by National Parks. Thank god, we have an extended space area which included the gallery. So my cafe is a very tight 60, 60 seater and gallery space which is was empty. We cleared out the gallery space and we made the space even bigger, which could set about maybe 60 seats. That went very well at this point. I was just restructuring at this point, take aways was still not a thing. People were encourage deliveries were encouraged. But it was still not a thing. I was just restructuring my take away business, online business. It was steady, it was growing and then was social distancing the week after really hit. I majorly went online. I will push up 20 percent of cakes and five off delivery of islandwide. Because I couldn't depend on the delivery systems, which was like Deliveroo or Foodpanda because they're too expensive. And they do not service the areas I needed to service. And so my friend Rubina, who owned a wedding event company, said take my van and I got one of my managers to drive. And so that was our system. So we got the orders in and orders started coming in. It was a lot of ways. We were doing 21, 20, 30 orders a day. We had call in for another vehicle. And then suddenly the park was all shut immediately that night, when they park they shut the parks. The next morning I had to reimburse 10000. I had to return. We would refund customers ten thousand dollars just that morning. Everything overnight, everything was just shut. And then since yesterday, some places. Most places are allowed to open. But places in the parks are still closed. So I am just at home cooking for my neighbours, my, my friends and stuff. So how it has affected me is affected me really greatly. I mean, I mean, I spend three days of my non-carb days just eating carbs, not knowing what the hell I'm going to do. And just three days just filling myself with carbs. I really did like. You know, the first thing was to to how am I going to keep my guys? I've got I've got I'm really not using my fifteen part timers, they are so poor thing. And then I've got to two cooks, two bakers. Two. One manager and one barista one guy on the floor. Three of them were foreigners. How do we do this, right? So there was my it was it was kind of emotionally not great, but I worked through there, had to do what I had to do. Things are. Things are better. But not as great as I wish it could be. When come. When this. I basically I have one more month before my business shuts in July, July. Only because of the lease. We we're we're finishing up the lease with National Parks. And because of the situation, I haven't been able look for a new space. I haven't been able to do anything. I've been talking to agents. I mean, everything on my hands are tied. I can't even keep my guys on a retailer because I don't know when I'm going to start again. You know, so obviously, my first Zoom. This is only my second Zune meeting. So my first Zoom meeting, was telling all my staff we're shutting down in July. So the first week of July the Fabulous Baker Boy will shut down. And then we'll see what's going to happen and then we'll see how, because they can't do anything at this point.

Petrina Kow: [00:11:14] Yeah. Good Lord. I think that might be. Is that news for everybody? Because it feels like this is big news. This is the first time I'm hearing this that you're going to be shut in July.

Juwanda Hassim: [00:11:26] I think I told you I don't think I showed you just snippets, you know, and some because I was really depressed about just thinking about it because we were doing well. We were doing so well. I mean, just in and in just three, just I knew we were going to be badly hurt. But they didn't realize it was gonna be this bad.

Petrina Kow: [00:11:45] Yeah. Yeah. Like, pulled the rug from under you. And.

Juwanda Hassim: [00:11:50] Because I can't do any it. I can't do anything. I can't. I kind of go out. And even if I have the funds and you don't know what the situation is going to be, how long it's going to stretch. It might only clear next July, you know. Yeah so what you going to do?

Petrina Kow: [00:12:07] Well, thank you for sharing so honestly, Juwanda. I mean, I think about all the various different restaurants that, you know, are pushing their take away menus out and trying their best. We have. Thank you so much. I mean, we have another, you know, two guys who've come from a space that have managed to carry on because they're located. They happen to be located in an area that was not shut down. These are Jason and Chen Long from Beng Who Cooks. Hello, Jason. I'm talking to Jason right?

Jason Chua: [00:12:40] Yeah, there isn't. Hi, guys. I'm Jason from Beng Who Cooks.

Petrina Kow: [00:12:45] So, I mean, you guys are in a food centre. So if you guys don't know who cooks are, they do these lovely, delicious and healthy for food bowls at Hong Lim Food Centre. They're very popular. And I think how I got to know you guys was because of some social media that was share, because of what you guys were doing in response to this pandemic and which was that you were going to provide free meals for whoever who needed it. And as a result of that, I think you had one of your customers start a foundation with you, right called Beng Who Cooks Foundation that basically started to provide these meals for free for all these people who, you know, are struggling to even have a nutritious meal for themselves. So tell me what what has been what it's been like for you guys? I mean, I know you're at your stall right now,

Jason Chua: [00:13:36] Basically all over the whole thing, right? I mean, we CBD area. I mean, Baker Boys should understand you CBD area. Business has already been affected since Christmas then later new year, then Chinese New Year. Then that was when Covid comes in. So me and my partners pay cut has been taking maybe. I mean, we are a small stall so our pay cut. We used to take like 1.5, 1.8. But nowadays we just take around 200 dollars a month. I mean, we we we are a food stall. I mean, we can cook all our meals are settled here. But overall business has already been bad. And even since the extension right. The announcement of extension on that day right the whole business has been crumbling around the whole centre. It's just not our stall. I mean. Also for like chicken rice stalls, those traditional western food. Even the one. Those one Michelin star food that they don't have a queue at all. You can just eat it and just come in order anytime, anywhere. They would just be able to serve you within five minutes. And their attitude has changed, I mean, sometimes they used to be very cocky, but nowadays I think everybody is desperate for business and they're all "Hi hi hi. Thank you. Thank you for coming". Yeah. Everybody is humbled down by this Covid. So sometimes this Covid it show a lot of humanity's side maybe to me I feel.

Petrina Kow: [00:14:49] Yeah. I mean, that's that's a good tip. Now I know I can finally go and eat my soya sauce chicken. No, but I mean, that's not the point. But I think also, apart from that, do you feel like what what made you and your partner decide to. Start to do these meals for the community,

Jason Chua: [00:15:06] Basically, because, well, my friend. Is because this announcement about these was on 6 April before the CB has started. That's right. She texted us saying that can we provide meals for needy people. And this was all before circuit breaker even announced. And I say we all wanted to do this. It's just that we don't finance backing. And that's when he told me. Okay. Don't worry about the finance. You guys just do. I'll figure out the finance. Of course, we really know, because as long as I be able to work out. I'll be able to come our the house, I'll still cook. Now, I said I'll do. Then initially it started on the on. The first meal was given was on 8 April. Then that's where caught news of like Fiona Xie. Channel News Asia. DJ Ross. And that's where it start sharing. That's were it's overwhelmed. We started giving our own 80 to 100 plus a day of free bowls, which I think is very unreasonable for the peopel sponsoring us for a meals because it's only one guy  sponsoring and there's like 600 plus 600 to 700 dollars. And this includes meal delivery. And that's why we start changing and implementing a lot of different rules. Like, nowadays I have to admit that, OK, I used to give 80 bowls a day. Now I only hive 30 bowls a day. Because there's a lot people that are not suitable to accept this meal. You had people wearing Rolex coming down to take free meals from you. Yeah, these's are some of the people coming down to take your free meals because we don't question them. That's not then that's where we start implementing the delivery charge and the delivery charge will chase away, people who are not really needy. Then when we see them they are carry, if they are carrying like branded bags or anything, right? We just chase them away. We we are not even giving them. But the main this is, we're ok with giving them because end of day we just want. We just want people ask us nicely. Because we have a lot of people asking free food like. Hey I demand you to give me this, I demand you to give me that. They use the word demand. Instead of can I have a meal? Or anything. We do reject a lot more than we give nowadays because we find that there's really people who needs it more than most people that is being accepted by society. There's a lot of outcasts that Singaporean don't see.

Petrina Kow: [00:17:26] I mean, I'm just curious because, you know, we we we all serving for myself and my my two friends, Janice and Pam, we we started a foundation. It started Pasar Glamour Art Aid. And even for something as as simple as that, just even coming up with a form to try and sift out people who might sort of abuse the system was so complex, you know, so I can't imagine if it's just as simple as here's a meal. I mean, from a very simple idea of wanting to help. Right. It somehow brings out, you know, different all kinds of different people. Right. So, you know, I think moving forward, if if you just sort of if you do, would you continue to do this again or would you continue the the foundation program past the Covid period. You think.

Jason Chua: [00:18:10] We will. We will. We promise like those people on our social media and especially Instagram. We thought, as long as Beng Who Cooks survive right, Beng Who Cares Foundation will also survive or because these things are interlinked it is just that we won't do delivery anymore. So if you're one you can just come down and at least tell us one day advance so that we are expecting our guests instead of. Like if you come down and we charge you. And say I have no money. And they'll be very troublesome. So. As long as Beng Cooks operate right, we'll keep giving out free meals, because if you if ever if ever you did something right you don't stop half way. I mean I just like, do it all the way.

Petrina Kow: [00:18:47] That's wonderful. And would you I mean, would you like the public to be able to help, meaning with the foundation? Can people donate to it so that they can keep the, you know, the support going?

Jason Chua: [00:18:57] No, because really, I myself, I wanted to set up of like a charity organization or something. But the procedure is not as easy as what everybody thinks. If you want to donate money or I do invest money issuing both. Right. Finance. Is on a different ballgame, because that's why I refuse to take any donations, even on dry goods and dry supplies right. Right. Everything I recommend do not give anything because we want to cater to vegetarian. Relocate to last last. If you'll give right. We are not sure if your stuff is halal or your stuff is a vegetarian. That's why we are avoiding people to donate money or even supply, because it's just not fair for who we are feeding. So to us. If you want to pay we will bear all the cost on ourselves and openness.

Petrina Kow: [00:19:42] Well, I just want to be on behalf of everyone, say thank you for your wonderful endeavors and your efforts. I think, you know, we just need to have more people like you, man Jason, and to know that we need more beings these days.

Jason Chua: [00:19:58] Okay. Maybe call it a humble bread or something. I feel that after we start this foundation. Right. There is really a lot of people copying this template, but it is good. Because a number of decreasing meals are also a sign of more helping. Yeah, I. What is it is the rejection helps, but it's also more people stepping up to provide free meals. Because even there's a NUS student giving out meals. That's the umbrella initiate giving out meals. So I'm glad it. I don't know that it is because of me on wall, but is a good thing that every Singaporean are stepping up their own ballgames.

Petrina Kow: [00:20:34] Yeah. Wonderful. Thank you so much, Jason. And please, you know, continue. Good luck. I understand you have a food styled Iran, so if you have to run off. I totally understand. But do stay for the discussion if you're free here.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:20:49] Thank you. Do under. Thank you. Thank you. Jason, please stay on if you are able to. Would love to come back to you later on in the conversation with some follow up questions. At this stage, I do. It's time for us to travel across the Atlantic to to London, where we have Siew Yen Chong on the line. How are you. Am. No, we're really thrilled that you able to join this conversation, so I understand you're a volunteer, you've been doing a lot of work in London helping ensure the low income families have better quality food on the table. And I would just love to hear a little bit more about how you exactly do that.

Siew Yen Chong: [00:21:33] So I volunteer with two charities. The first one is Bags of Taste. And it's started in Hackney, which is where I live in East London. And the aim of the charity is mainly to help reduce food poverty, which is kind of defined as people not having access to good food or food. That's good for you. Whether it's because of price or whether it's because they are in places where there are no great markets and they can't get to it. And how it began was the founder was in a supermarket and she was looking at the shopping baskets of the customers. And so many people had like, you know, one pound pizzas already, meals that are growing at one pound in their basket. And she came up thinking to herself, she was like, well, you know, I could teach these people how to cook a really nutritious meal for a pound or less. And that's how the story began. So Bags of Taste create a create a set of cooking lessons. And then we have a set of recipes to go along with it. And basically every portion we cook is a pound or less. And when students come to our classes, they will cook and learn these recipes and then they are able to buy a bag of ingredients which are exactly measured. And also if it's one tablespoon of sesame oil, you will get one tablespoon of sesame oil and a sachet. So when you get home and you cook the meal, it will taste like what you've cooked in class, which encourages people to cook again. And once they get over that, like, oh, you know, why should I buy Singapore noodles, which is a very favorite, like top favorite dish to order on takeaways for six, seven pounds when I can recreate it for myself at home for one pound. And from there on, we reach out to the food banks in Hackney, the recovery service or drug rehabilitation, alcohol rehabilitation, homeless shelters, a couple of domestic abuse places. And the council also has lots of council housing. So if you have families or residents who are in arrears, there are also people that we target or people that go to the Jobcentre because they're looking for work. And so these are the people that we want to educate about the importance of budgeting, using measures when you're cooking so that you're not overspending and then your fruit tastes really great. And the thing that we do in our recipes is also encourage the use of spices so that people are looking at what they eat in terms of their salt intake and they're able to make their fruit more exciting because of spices and herbs rather than adding sugar or salt or eating takeaway, which is full of sort of salts, fats and that kind of stuff. So that smacks of taste. And and through that course, we are able to reach out to lots of. A lot of them, I guess, who live on their own, actually, in Hackney. A large part about a large part of our target audience live on their own. They're older. A lot of older men, 50 and over. Who are lonely. And so the cooking helps them to reconnect with food. But gives them a chance to socialize in a very non-threatening situation, which is, you know, I think people always find it easier to chat over food, whether you're a man or a woman. And and then I'm supported by a group of other volunteers. So I teach the class and other volunteers will help each student in the class. So in that way, yes, we are helping people by giving them cheaper food. But I think more importantly, the program drives behavior change, that it's possible to cook better and your food is better than the take away. And even if it means people eat like take away a couple of times less in the week, it means that we have achieved our objectives. And I think in this time of kov it, what we're finding, particularly living in London, is that the people who are in the black, African-American or Caribbean communities, they have a higher chance of dying from the disease simply because of obesity problems or because of that diet or genetic propensity. So having this idea of getting them to be aware of what they're eating and how they can control that kind of intake of salt and sugar, I think is an eat. It's an equalizer in that respect.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:26:03] And do you foresee that any of the things or the ways of approaching behavior change in in your work in London? Any of. Are any of these things transferable for the Singapore context? From what you know, what do you see as the situation here?

Siew Yen Chong: [00:26:19] I think definitely I think that the great thing about single boys, I feel that growing up anyway. It's always been food has been it's very democratic in Singapore. The fruit that you buy in a hawker center, you know, now, even with greater awareness of salt and fats, I think it's it's fairly healthy. It's actually quite good. You always get vegetables or something like that. It's it's so it's quite democratic. You can get pretty good food at a very decent price. And so I think that the practice that we have here of encouraging people to cook more often for themselves, I think that's probably something that should be encourage so that, yes, there's a great chicken rice store we want to support and it's our local like downstairs take away is very good. We can help out. But actually, how about encouraging people to sit down, reconnect with food and cook these meals? And part of the the the way that our recipes are designed is that they are designed so that you can cook with one pan on the hot seat or in the oven. You don't need you know, so you do have to pay a lot for electricity or gas bills. So I think, you know, is a really good way of getting people to cook together and reconnect with food.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:27:30] Do you do you foresee that there will be a challenge? Because, I mean, it was interesting how you can make the comparison of how much a premade meal in the shopping basket would cost compared to making something for yourself. And in Singapore, I mean, you know, the cost of of meals purchased at a hawker center is still quite reasonable. As you say, it's it's very democratic compared to the cost of preparing something at home for for yourself as well. There's this kind of I mean, some people talk about an imbalance depending on where you buy your ingredients. I mean, do you see that being a challenge here in Singapore?

Siew Yen Chong: [00:28:08] Yeah. These are not just in Singapore, I would say here as well. I think here maybe it can be a bit I don't know what it's like and what was kind of a bit detrimental. It's like, oh, you didn't buy organic or how can you eat chicken? That is, you know, a pound fifty for like half a kilo. I mean, you know, but if you've got five children and you have to look after all the parents, you haven't got much of a choice. That's kind of what you know. So I think bags of things is good because it doesn't judge. But what it tries to encourage you to do is that in every say in a recipe that actually has meat in it, if they are serving two people and I was getting down to details, it would be less than 100 grams of meat per person. And that's how we always bill our recipes. So. And you want to have meat? Sure. But it's 80 grams of chicken, 80 grams of minced beef for one person. So if you make two portions, you know, 80, 80, that's 160. So when people when we cook with people, they look at it and they think, oh, my God, this in this spaghetti bolognese is only one hundred eighty grams of meat. And everything else is carrots and celery. So I think in Singapore you you can do exactly the same thing where you teach people about a portion of ingredients that you put in a recipe, particularly the protein versus vegetables, and that will help you overall reduce the cost of a serving. So I think that's another way you can. Teach.

Petrina Kow: [00:29:31] Yeah. I would like to take that course myself, because I tend to over like today. I decided to roast a tray of vegetables and I realize I had roasted the entire head of broccoli, one whole carrot, one whole like cauliflower. And then the next thing I know, I'm like I have like, these two giant trays of vegetables that my two kids, just sort of like scoff at. And then like, you know, open a pack of instant noodles themselves, you know. So it's sort of like how well I try it.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:30:01] So at this point, I'd love to bring in Bjorn Low into the conversation. Hi, Bjorn. Hello. I'm good. So you're joining us from Victoria in Australia right now. Did I get that right? That's right. And so I know you as a pioneer and a champion for urban farming. You are a co-founder of Edible Garden City. And, you know, a lot of this discussion, just a recent discussion with Siew Yen is kind of talking about produce people encouraging people to cook for themselves. Talking about the cost of produce as well in a city like Singapore. And I'm curious to hear what have been your thoughts as you've been hearing, not only the conversation, but also your observations of of just how people are dealing with food. Against a backdrop of a pandemic?

Bjorn Low: [00:30:45] Well, it's definitely an a very interesting time for for everybody, especially in the food industry and in the farming space. Well, whilst there has been a lot of hype and talk around food security for sustainability and Singapore being in a very challenged position, there's also a lot of chatter, news out from the global food supply chain. Saw you see all farmers in the US, if only on Australia, having to plough their produce back into the ground because a lot of the food system is built on these centralised production system, massive systems of supply chain. So if something breaks, everything goes to the ground. So farmers are actually losing a lot of produce, dumping milk. They are throwing away eggs because the supply chain is broken. And then on the other on the other hand, you have people now going hungry. So something is massively not balance. And this is potentially a good time to really look deeper into the food system on how we can balance that equation. A lot of the work that we have done in the past in urban agriculture is to look at decentralised production systems. So, for example, we are in what should you be in, for example? In Ang Mo Kio, where we are producing food for the local community in the space itself and not and reliant on a lot of outside, you know, changes and things like that. So it's the local community supporting that movement. So it is very trying times, even for the food producers as well, although you see a massive amount of demand from the consumer side that there is that inability for the farmers to bring their produce to market because of how the model has been built up on efficiency and because there is no efficiency. Now, a lot has been lost to this whole crisis.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:32:58] So I'm just curious. Going back to you were mentioning before about your work with HDB estates and Ang Mo Kio in particular, and I'm curious, pre-Covid 19. What have been some of the headways, you know, stopping for more? It should be a states getting involved in a project like that.

Bjorn Low: [00:33:17] So in the past, we are doing urban agriculture has always been a very challenging industry. Yes, because agriculture is based on the economies of scale model while in urban spaces, you know, it is small and that's only that much you can build. Vertical or scalability is always a challenge was infrastructure cost is high. Our model has always been to be produced, producing floor restaurants and hotels, you know, a high value type produce on very short turnaround times. What we now need to to look at is really it's kind of changing that model to really produce higher amount of skill for the larger population and the general public on produce that they eat every day in order bok choy, chai sim. But that competition as well from from overseas. You know, in Malaysia and Thailand, the produce are a lot cheaper. And it's always, you know, our producers always a premium. But what we found actually is starting to to work a lot in this space in. For example, Yorkhill, where we started a project called Ah Kong Farm. We found it actually urban farming. It's not only bringing up tangible values like the produce, but also the hits on the intangible portion of community engagement not being socially isolate that elderly out from your homes to participate in something like urban farming, growing produce together, eating together. It has so much more benefits in terms of mental wellness than just filling a tiny, so solid that there is a lot more that a lot deeper into it. But of course, the focus now because of a food shortage is stand production. But we want to look at the picture holistically now.

Petrina Kow: [00:35:14] And I love that because I am also noticing with just, you know, anecdotally amongst my friends, everyone is propagating spring onions and, you know, growing their own garlic and, you know, tending to the herb garden. And then I myself have quite a successful sweet potato leaf situation happening, though we haven't quite harvested it to, you know, fry one dish of sweet potato will be as yet. But but I think, you know, I think it's making people really sort of think about this. Right, rather than go to the, you know, market just to get one sprig of, you know, spring onion as a you mean so easy to like propagates spring onion. Why did they never do this before? You know,

Bjorn Low: [00:35:53] There's always two sides of that. So you have one group of people who give it a go. And so while it's so hard, you don't buy chili plant keeps dying. And it's like, why don't you just go to the supermarket? I spent two dollars. I get all these chilies whilst while you are spending all five months of your life trying to get this shit plant to produce. I think that effort you have the other group of people that I like here, it is a very difficult process to grow your own food and the value of food a lot more. And then that has done a latent benefit on addressing food wastage problem because the Singapore will be true several hundred thousand tonnes of food last year while importing 90 percent. So again, that this balance. Right. So we see these kind of changes in a lot of young people going through that process. Well, to say it is really hard. Maybe we need to appreciate a lot more what these farmers are doing overseas, you know, to grow food. Let's try and waste less. So it has it has it can go both ways.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:36:56] So with that, I would do want to kind of put it step into a solutions mindset for a moment and ask both Siew Yen and Bjorn to imagine that you were bestowed with the power to change the food sector in Singapore and in Asia. And what would be the top three things that you would do as soon as you were given this power? And I want to pass that to Siew Yen first. What are at the top three things you would do?

Siew Yen Chong: [00:37:21] Ration cards. If I had a power for 100 days, I would put out ration cards so that I think households you can only buy stuff that is on your absolute essential needs, For 100 days and then you will learn to be creative. You are learned to stop throwing things out and you will learn to check, to smell, to rely on your senses before you go. This spring onion looks a bit soft. I going to throw it out. The celery is a bit soft and you don't really reuse things in ways. So I would introduce ration cards and I sit and only because I think that this whole Covid situation has amplified the inequality in, say, my household versus, you know, the households that I'm helping right now. I, I because of bags of tears and other work that I do, I'm so scrupulous about food waste now, but I'm sure before I'm probably as guilty as anyone else. So I go ration ration card.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:38:28] Ration cards. Great. Thank you, Siew Yen. How about your Bjorn?

Bjorn Low: [00:38:31] The one thing I'll do is turn Singapore from a Garden City into an edible Garden City and pass a policy that we have and can plant durian trees all around our roads, mango trees, soursop trees, and everyone have then free access to the food. That's not so hard to do, right? They're spending a lot of money by putting in these giant ornamental trees that costs thousands and thousands of dollars and in all places like that. Why don't you just grow a fruit tree so everyone can partake, you know, even the wildlife as well as so. So that's what I would do. Pass a policy and make that a reality.

Petrina Kow: [00:39:10] I wonder vote Bjorn as minister of food. Ha here that you've got me at free durian man on the side of the road.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:39:10] Everybody's clapping. I see all of this round of applause on the Zoom chat. Everybody's classing

Petrina Kow: [00:39:25] Free durian. Oh my goodness. Oh, okay. For now though. Thank you. I just like to take the opposite. All our guests today for coming on the show. But for now, a very special guest as well who is also joining us. And he I know as a well-known voice on the radio, but when I searched him up, he also says he's a 25 year old music making, sushi eating love machine. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Joshua Simon to the show. Dude, have a good love machine. Hello, darling.

Joshua Simon: [00:39:59] I'm pretty sure that was my Tinder bio from like five years ago. Actually, I'm actually turning 30 in a couple of weeks, so I'm so sorry you got the press release a little bit later.

Petrina Kow: [00:40:10] I think you can just keep it there. Keep it at 25. It's a ok.

Joshua Simon: [00:40:13] Keep it 25? I'm going to be one of those? OK. Yeah, I just stopped counting. I just celebrate anniversaries from here, Andre. Wow. I've so many things. I want to say this conversation. And first off, OK. Juwanda. I have not had carbs in three and a half weeks. I've been on keto. I've been on this keto diet because it's sort of like my way of helping a friend's business. I'm she runs this thing Keto Me, which is like a subscription delivery service for, like keto friendly food. And then that I was vegetarian for three months. So to go from vegetarian to eating only meat is like insane. And I miss carb. Like I'm a carbs person. So I will I will eat everything in your bakery, like. In one sitting like I need rice in my life. Right now it's serious. Okay. And. Yeah. Like, I'm gonna go try Jason's food as far as like Googling, like Beng Who Cooks and like the food looks so great. It's like it's like eating like salad bowls. But in a hawker centers. Like what. I spent like twenty dollars for these kind of bowls or then like I'm a sucker for an onsen egg. Like you're onsen eggs look amazing. And it's like super overpriced in the malls.

Jason Chua: [00:41:26] Only six dollars.

Joshua Simon: [00:41:27] Oh yeah.

Jason Chua: [00:41:28] Unless you add.

Joshua Simon: [00:41:29] I'm so there I was so gonna come to your store and like that was such an incredible like. That segment earlier on with you.

Jason Chua: [00:41:29] Just remeber to tell me whether you're paying or getting one of the free bowls.

Joshua Simon: [00:41:41] I will definitely be paying. Oh OK. You like the free bowl stuff. Just got me like so riled up earlier on like this period. So many people want to beat up that. Yeah. That was really cool. Yeah. Hi. How do I fit into this conversation.

Petrina Kow: [00:41:59] Well I mean, I don't know if you I mean you have some thoughts about food and sort of where you wanna go or do you and just just offer your thoughts through your artistry and sings your song.

Joshua Simon: [00:42:11] I mean, there are still so many questions like free form for Yen Chong. Like what is Singapore noodles? I see every time when I travel I we do not have Singapore noodles in the sample. What is Singapore noodles.

Siew Yen Chong: [00:42:22] I know. Makes my heart curl. I just got bee hoon with the curry powder in it.

Joshua Simon: [00:42:30] Huh?

Siew Yen Chong: [00:42:30] I know.

Joshua Simon: [00:42:32] Budget bee hoon is it?

Siew Yen Chong: [00:42:32] It's got turmeric and you like cumin in it as part of the mix.

Petrina Kow: [00:42:38] Yes, strange. I suppose it's like breakfast bee hoon, but they they forgot what spice and the just anyhow add.

Siew Yen Chong: [00:42:43] Instead of sambal. They go and put turmeric and cumin.

Joshua Simon: [00:42:47] So confusing

Siew Yen Chong: [00:42:47] Wahlao.

Joshua Simon: [00:42:48] I have not I have not done the delivery thing. Like, I like going out to get food. I like like interacting with the people that I work with, like I eat about the same. Like I can eat the same thing every day and not get sick of it. You know, like there are like certain restaurants or cafes that I go to and like we like. I know, I know the people that stop there and everything. So I like that interaction. I don't like just food showing up at the door. Like, I only just signed up for like like online banking recently. So I'm one of those rare millennials that just do not trust the Internet. I do not trust Amazon. And like, I need to physically, like, pay. I still have vinyl records, you know. So I signed that person. It's strange because I feel like my family my family is not super well-to-do. Like we've always, like, struggled with, like bills and all that kind of stuff. But then, like, of all things, I feel like during this whole corporate thing, I can see how spoiled we are by ridiculously spoiled. We are. And like like when we open the fridge, there's just so much groceries in there. Like, my sister will do a run. My dad will draw on my mom and I'll come back thinking that, OK, I'm buying them for the whole family. And the whole fridge is just like chock full of stuff. And the covers are filled with like, OK, there's a canned food. Why why do we have canned food? We never get canned food. But then we have like every ingredient, you know. So I've been challenging my family to just stop buying stuff and just finish what's in the fridge, because it's really annoying when I'm hearing about how people are not getting enough food, you know, and like, we complain so much about our bills and then you open the fridge and everything is there. And then like you, I'll hear like a family member, complain about how they're hungry and like they're going on Deliveroo, "like go to the fridge, pick up a pan". All right. And I've been cooking, OK? So I've been cooking. And it's been dreadful. Like, some people are just gifted. Like I watch Master Chef and I'm looking at these home cooks, like prepare these incredible dishes. Like, I can't cook an omelet. Like I you would think that with the right ingredients things, which is cool, but just something messes up. It's either like, OK, I burnt something or I put too much oil or like too little seasoning. It's just like I'm just not cut out for this. So like one thing great as I do host the show at night on my radio show, I like to say to someone like, what I've been doing is I've been sort of intermittent fasting, waiting till like later in the night I pack something I eat much. Later on, I wrote a song called All I Wanna Do early during this, when the fears of the pandemic are creeping in, mainly cause I felt like even listening to this conversation, I feel like I, I did not achieve much in life is like at least you guys, you're like in it, you know, you guys are really in it and you're, you're in the grime and you're like working through and trying to find a way to help. And, and I'm just like I sing like what what is this skill set, you know, like I you know, so I thought really purposeless. And what I started doing on my radio show is I started opening it up. I didn't think too much about it's like super wrong for me to do this. But like, I've just been like allowing anyone who has a business that's either, like thriving or trying to keep their head above water, like, come share your story. You know, like I have a friend of mine, Douglas Park. He has a hawker store called like Fishball Story, you know, and he's using social media. It's really. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He he still owes me fish cakes. So he is using social media to sell his fish balls and he's directly like he's getting his friends to come help deliver, like he's doing everything by himself, you know. So that's incredible. I heard that Nando's is is giving up free food every single day until the 1st of June. And just like Jason, they're not doing any checks, you know, just by good faith. If you need a meal, we'll give you a support meal. That's it. So feel free to come onto my show today. I have a friend, Lucas, who represents Singapore as a speed skater, and he is he's not able to go to the rink now. Right. So he is helping because he's super tech tech. He's a super nerdy. So he's been like refurbishing laptops and giving it to kids who don't have money to get like a new computer during this time and they're working from home or whatever. So he's been doing that, you know, and every artist that I interview, like yesterday I spoke with Hailee Steinfeld. She is a pop star and one of the youngest to be nominated for an Oscar. And I've been asking this one question, which is like, what is the role of an artist in a pandemic? You know, and it's interesting. I'm still gathering answers like her. I'm not nervous about.

Petrina Kow: [00:47:29] Sorry, go ahead and get you the head. You finish her answer.

Joshua Simon: [00:47:33] Her answer was about how I think she was still trying to figure it out as house as she was. There is a pretty intense question, huh?

Petrina Kow: [00:47:41] I mean, no, I mean, I think because we had an episode earlier about artists and the role of artists, and I think our conclusion from that, if you want to listen, you would have listen to that first before this one. But basically, I think I want to encourage you and say, don't feel like you're not doing anything. You're doing heaps. You have a show. You're connecting with listeners. Right. You're providing a platform. And you're such a connector. So. And you are an artist. And I think for especially these times, the artists always lead the way. Right. We we find ways. We get creative. And I think what what I've observed with the people in the food industry, because they're the ones a first hit and hit the hardest and the fastest. But they're also the ones who are the most creative and the ones who come back fast and nimble as well. Everyone has had to really sort of dig deep and find all kinds of ways to really sort of pivot, you know, get together. And and I think it does bring out the worst and the best. And I like to think that I think, you know, it depends on how you look at it. I think we we have to allow for people to take that journey no matter what it what it is. But, you know, food is so fundamental. Right. And in it, I mean, we can say, oh, art is like the last thing we like. If if we were to sort of do the whole OK. Now we're going to relax. The one now. Okay, we can open the first dollar store. But now what is bubble tea? It's like. Okay, like those things will open first, light, whatever. But then the arts venues will be the last to open. Right. So that's that's still way back on the thing. But food food is always on people's mind. Food is always the first thing. So in a way, I think that that hunger or that that essential need is is so primal and is so it is really the reason we exist. And we like to say food isn't just about filling a tummy. Right. Even though sometimes on the on the most essential level, that's what it is. But we've all talked about that communing, that coming together as a community, even just as the dignity of being able to provide a meal for yourself, especially if you live alone. I really find that that's it's really quite special. So I was just thinking, I think, you know, I would love for for learning how to cook and feed yourself a nutrition to be one of the subjects we learn at school. You know, so that Joshua will know how to make an omelet.

Joshua Simon: [00:50:05] So I actually MOE's defense. I did I did do better nutrition. OK. But I was also dreadful at that. Like, I made spaghetti carbonara by just getting, like, spaghetti from the shelf at the supermarket. And then I use Campbell's Soup like Cream of Mushroom as my carbonara sauce. And it's it's actually pretty edible.

Petrina Kow: [00:50:27] It's quite tasty. I have to.

Joshua Simon: [00:50:27] Don't thumbs down Jason. Don't thumbs done. I just gave you a brilliant new item to add?

Petrina Kow: [00:50:36] No. Took almost no carbonara. It was very interesting, actually. I'd say that a lot of people went when when the hoarding started. Right. And people wanted to like, panic, buy and buy stuff. People who don't normally buy canned food just set. It's the buy canned food. Like, I know I was doing that. I was like, yeah, maybe I need like a can of Ma Ling, like luncheon meat. Now, you know, it's like I never, ever buy it. But suddenly I have three cartons and there was all this and I still haven't cooked that insulate. So yes, I am guilty hoarder.

Joshua Simon: [00:51:06] And a lot of people in my life, like dieting in a pandemic, is such a privilege. Like everyone is just talking about the diets that there I'm like, oh, my God, I should get off at the end of it. Like, you have so much food. Oh, my gosh. I mean, I wish I wish there was just better synergy. Like, I like I want to help. The thing is, I don't know where to start. You know, like, I know what to do. Okay, great. I have all this food. I've got others in my kitchen. I start cooking stuff and I start giving it to someone. Who do I give it to? You know, so like, I just wish there was just a better synergy or even. Okay, like, great. I host a radio show. I can be a catalyst. I can help like all people to these businesses, you know, letting them come onto the show and promote your your business and your product. That usually would cost a lot of money. I just wish there was. Yeah. Once this thing started to engage us, engage the artists.

Petrina Kow: [00:51:53] You can is what I'm saying, Joshua. So it do you. Before we go and have you sing us out, any, any last thoughts, Laurindo.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:52:01] Yeah. So I do want to make sure we touch base with each of our guests before we wrap up today's show. And really the invitation is to, you know, share what is one thing that you want our listeners to know based on today's discussion. And perhaps we start with you Juwanda. What's one thing that you'd like our listeners to know?

Juwanda Hassim: [00:52:19] I think, you know, I know the. Dark clouds and shit and stuff. I think there's still hope. I'm the one who's so hopeful. It brings me to tears, but I just really cook things. Things will get better.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:52:38] How about you, Jason? What's one thing that you want to make sure our listeners know? Based on today's discussion.

Jason Chua: [00:52:44] I really want people to know that. Toknow that there's a website. Facebook Group call Covid Idiots. Right. Yeah, I just want people to stop. Yeah. Yeah. I mean put yourself into someone else's shoes and stop framing and scolding them. And then that's not really cool. But most of them that appears on the page. Are the ones without social media and they do know that being framed or being scolded. That's a very sucky feeling to be felt lah. If you don't even know. Why it is you're being scolded.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:53:08] So to have a heart.

Petrina Kow: [00:53:11] Lovely. And how about you then?

Siew Yen Chong: [00:53:13] Definitely reconnect with friends, you know, pick up the phone. Obviously, Zoom calls a great and all of that. But I think if someone that you want to speak to and you haven't spoken to for awhile. Pick up the phone. Do that. Read more. I'm finding myself reading a lot and really enjoying walking the streets. And really, I don't like looking at trees a lot, looking at like I can hear, but every morning more than I've I have in a long time. And I really I, I stop and actually take my time. So I think that's a luxury and I'm making the most of it and helping others whenever you can.

Petrina Kow: [00:53:53] Thank you. And to round us off Bjorn?

Bjorn Low: [00:53:55] Yeah, I think hope is that for you something that is really important. Hold on to. I hope everyone can continue to hold on to that. But on the flip side, I feel that, you know, mother stuff has been very well taken care of in the last six months. You know, with all the emission that has gone down the flights grounded that perhaps I really hope that we can all look to what's a better future with a better economy that says a lot more sustainable for the future. So that that is that's my hope.

Petrina Kow: [00:54:29] Great. Thank you so much to all our wonderful guests who've joined us here today. And I think, Josh, would you want to just tell us a little bit of a song that you got to sing?

Joshua Simon: [00:54:38] Oh, right. Yeah. This is a song called All I Wanna Do. And it's a song that I think a lot of us can definitely relate to. It's and it's a desire for escapism. It's also how I feel sometimes when I feel like I don't know where I fit in. I just kind of want to disappear and just like, hide my head, you know? So, like, it's this song is about anxiety, but it's also about escapism. And it's colorful. It's fun.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:55:04] Thanks to all our guests, Juwanda, Jason. Siew Yen, Bjorn, Joshua, really appreciate you taking the time to have a chat with us today. If you'd like to find out more about our guests, please check out the increasingly Web site. We'll be providing links to everyone. Please remember to like this podcast and share view. Your feedback will help us improve. Make sure you subscribe to us on the Apple podcast, Spotify and also YouTube.

Petrina Kow: [00:55:27] Thank you very much for joining us. Until next time. I'm Petrina.

Laurindo Garcia: [00:55:31] And I'm Laurindo Garcia. Thanks for listening.

*JOSHUA SIMON SINGS ‘ALL I WANNA DO’*