We understand that this episode may not be for all of our listeners and so as per the warning at the top of the show, if you are uncomfortable with discussions between a gambling addiction recovery podcast and a gambling operator then this recording isn't the one for you.

However, we believe that it's good to have a healthy debate and discussion with operators especially those that are setting a high bar in terms of ethics and sustainability, and that has set an ambitious target to reach zero revenue derived from harmful gambling by 2023, as is the case with Kindred Group. 

In today's show, we speak with Maris Catania (Global Head of Player Sustainability at Kindred Group) and UK General Manager, Neil Banbury.