For our final interview of Season 4, Kate speaks to the woman herself - lit world legend, Helen Garner. They discuss diaries, editing, triangles, criticism, marriage, motherhood, sublime joy and how Garner pulled together her most recent, explosive volume of diaries - How to End a Story. It's a warm and clever and wonderful conversation and Kate just manages to hold her fangirling in.

Check out show notes for this episode on our website www.thefirsttimepodcast.com or get in touch via Twitter (@thefirsttimepod) or Instagram (@thefirsttimepod).

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