In this episode Katherine has pressed send on her MG novel, Kate is visiting an abattoir, they both wax lyrical about Jane McGonigal and encourage you to get your submissions in for the National Cultural Policy. We are also asking YOU, our listeners, to let us know who you want to hear from in Season SIX next year!!

This episode's featured book segment is brought to you by Penguin and we are talk to James Mckenzie Watson about his debut novel DENIZEN, writing rural mental health and how he was helped by his fabulous podcast James and Ashley Stay Home.

Check out show notes for this episode on our website www.thefirsttimepodcast.com or get in touch via Twitter (@thefirsttimepod) or Instagram (@thefirsttimepod).

Don't forget you can support us and the making of Season Five via our Patreon page. Thanks for joining us!