SA Voices From the Field

In the latest episode of SA Voices from the Field hosts Dr. Jill Creighton spoke with Kamakshi Velamuri, a rising senior at North Carolina University (NCCU) who aspires to pursue a career in student affairs. The episode, rich with personal stories and professional insights, explores the challenges, triumphs, and future aspirations for higher education professionals. This blog post delves into the key themes discussed during this insightful conversation.

Kamakshi's journey into student affairs began with a keen interest in education reform. Initially aspiring to become a teacher, her direction shifted toward becoming an educational consultant and eventually focusing on student affairs. The consistency in her passion for education reform has guided her through these transitions and solidified her commitment to creating a positive impact within the higher education system.

Kamakshi articulated several key challenges in student affairs:

• Curriculum Issues:

  Standardized testing, GPA concerns, and outdated curriculums need reform.

• Staff and Faculty Challenges:

  Overwork, insufficient staffing, resource constraints, and underpayment are prevalent issues.

• Wage Gap and Economic Challenges:

  Dr. Jill Creighton emphasized the wage gap in the student affairs profession and the anticipated impact of upcoming federal overtime laws.

These challenges underscore the need for systemic changes to ensure well-being and fair compensation for all professionals in the field.

Kamakshi shared her experiences as a first-generation Asian Indian female student at an HBCU. She discussed the cultural and familial expectations she navigated while pursuing a non-STEM career. Her story highlights the importance of support systems for nontraditional students who face unique challenges. She highlighted experiences of microaggressions and emphasized the role of diversity and inclusion departments, counseling centers, and peer mentoring groups in providing support.

When discussing the broader scope of student affairs, Kamakshi and the hosts reflected on the importance of learning from the past while addressing ongoing and future concerns. The profession has seen improved collaboration among staff and faculty, leading to better support for students. However, Kamakshi emphasized the necessity of continuous and structured efforts for progress and adaptation.

Kamakshi's vision for the future of student affairs involves intellectual and practical reform. She advocates for stronger collaboration between student affairs and academic affairs and calls for practical life skills education beyond traditional academics. The need to address economic challenges, mental health issues, and basic needs like housing affordability is crucial for the well-being of contemporary college students.

The conversation concluded with Kamakshi's optimistic outlook on long-term systemic change. Dr. Jill Creighton echoed this sentiment, quoting an African proverb: "If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together." This mantra highlights the collective effort required to bring about meaningful change.

To showcase the lighter side of their guest, Dr. Jill Creighton led Kamakshi Velamuri through a rapid-fire "lightning round":

• Entrance Music for a Keynote:

  "This Girl is on Fire" by Alicia Keys

• Childhood Dream:

  To be a kind, influential person

• Most Influential Mentor:

  Miss Lauren, a board member

• Essential Student Affairs Read:

  None specifically, as she is not keen on reading

• Recent TV Show Binge:

  Occasionally "The Office" for fun

• Favorite Podcast:

  Enjoys yoga, meditation, and nonprofit reform podcasts

• Shout-outs:

  To herself for reaching her current position and to NASPA professionals for their support and respect

These questions offered a glimpse into Kamakshi's personality, hobbies, and the influences that have shaped her journey so far.

Listeners inspired by Kamakshi's journey can reach out to her via email at [email protected], [email protected], or connect with her on LinkedIn.

This episode of "Dads with Daughters" offers valuable insights into the challenges and future of student affairs through the lens of a passionate and driven young professional. Kamakshi Velamuri's story is a testament to the power of perseverance, support systems, and collective effort in shaping the future of higher education.

About our guest

TRANSCRIPT (Unedited transcript created through Castmagic)

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: KamakshiWelcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on Essay Voices, I'm thrilled to feature an undergraduate student, Kamakshi Velamuri is a rising senior at North Carolina University or NCCU, majoring in interdisciplinary studies. She founded an education nonprofit in high school to advocate for meaningful reform in the education system. Kamakshi plans to pursue a master's in higher ed to become a student affairs professional. As a first generation student leader, Kamakji brings a unique perspective to the world. Her passion and focus is on driving positive change in education reform. Kamakshi, welcome to essay voices from the field.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:00:55]: Thank you for the welcome. I'm excited.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:56]:

You're welcome. Welcome to SA Voices from the Field.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:00:59]: Thank you for the welcome. I'm excited.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:01]: You are one of our, I think, maybe only undergraduate students to appear on the podcast or maybe 1st or second. You're also enough, and you've spent quite a bit of time growing into a future career in student affairs. So you're the perfect person to have on for the season of the past, present, and future of student affairs. Normally, we kick off our episodes by asking our guests how they got to their current professional seat. But since you're an aspiring student affairs professional, I'm hoping you can talk about your undergraduate journey and how you've arrived at the decision that the student affairs profession is where you wanna be.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:01:33]: Definitely. So my journey has actually started since elementary. It's kind of crazy how that goes back to. But I originally wanted to become a teacher since I've seen amazing teachers, of course, bad teachers too, but focusing on the positive side, they've inspired me. And since then to high school, I was on that mindset of being a teacher until I moved or transitioned into education law or that kind of career vibe. And then I got to college with all hopes of getting into law school after graduation. But I was told by my career counselor that I should rather be an educational consultant. So long story short, I did a reflection and realized, yes, I wanted to be all these different roles.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:02:15]: But at the end of the day, they all had a common point, which was education system as a whole. So I was like, so why did I want to do education system keeping those roles aside? And that's when I realized it's all about education reform and how I'm personally the type of person. I'm not like since I had to deal with it, everybody has to deal with it. So I wanted to make sure if I struggled that the next generation did not have to struggle, and then I voice the concerns because everybody can stay complaining, but who is actually putting in the work to resolve these issues? And that's the thing that motivated me into getting student affairs in specific because I felt like with student affairs in specific, I would have the opportunity to be a point of contact in a way with my advising role or some kind of role to a point where I work with students, staff, and faculty, and I can influence a group of a collective of people. And then if I were to go for advocacy or reform to any kind of administration, I have a backup of people that can come work with me and advocate together. Because I feel like the more people that join in, the louder the voice is and the more clear it is to the administration of the importance in making the decision or changing the system, in other words. So I felt like student affairs could be a platform or an industry I could use to kind of really get those people to work together on the change. Because I know if I go by myself and say this is wrong, he won't listen to me.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:03:46]: They need research. They need backup and people to be collectively saying that this is a concern. So that's why I feel like student affairs was the best place to still do reform, because I could do reform in whatever industry, but I chose this would be more of a not just easy, but, like, a productive way to make change while I enjoy it. Because as a student myself, since middle school, I've always been in leadership roles, SGA, whatever it could be. So I enjoy that stuff. I enjoy product management, project management, event planning, pretty much everything that specifically student affairs entitles into. And then as I discovered this, I realized I started a nonprofit in high school, but that also was also education reform. So it kind of, like, all connected together, how everything was working.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:04:35]: And, of course, as I was in college and realized this dream, I was already working with the office of vice chancellor at our campus. So, fortunately, the vice chancellor of our campus is the liaison for NASPA. And, generally, my mentor for NASPA, NUF program, is also part of the Office of Vice Chancellor. So I kinda worked with all of them in joining it and then built my connections and to make it more of a reality. So that's kinda my journey into figuring out what this is.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:06]: I think you may have figured out quite a bit earlier than a lot of us that student affairs was a viable career path for you with what makes you passionate and how you want to affect systems for students. Now the reasons may sound similar across time for student affairs professionals about why we come into the field. We're generally a group of people who are designing experiences for students with the hopes that we're impacting positive change or creating support systems or helping people exercise critical thinking skills or what have you, you know, that co curricular experience. So what part of student affairs are you hoping to center into as you begin your journey?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:05:42]: So it totally depends on time because, like, you can see since middle school to now, it kinda changed. I always have plans. One thing about me people can tell you about that know me is I'm all about planning and organizing and actually overplanning. So I'm ready to take career anything that involves event planning, programming, and a direct contact with students. But I want to make sure that, yes, they're having fun through events, but they're also getting purposeful outcomes and objectives. So that's why even when I plan programming that it kind of align, actually has objectives, like a lesson or something that they can take away. Even if it's a fun event, they take away social wellness or something of that sort. So I feel like that kind of work can give me a fun, exciting, and something that I'm good at and I enjoy doing, but also can impact the students.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:06:34]: So I feel like anything event planning, so maybe, I mean, every department has event planning. I personally worked with the Seal of our campus, Student Engagement Leadership Department, and I've worked with different departments within that. Student Orgs, I've always, I'm part of Through Student Orgs myself as a leader. So I feel like that kind of journey is the start of my career because I've been in it, and I can just expand more on, like, the knowledge of it and eventually get up to whatever role it takes me to. But no matter what I do, I wanna involve learning or advocacy, but in a fun way because students like fun. I like lessons. How do we combine them is my mission.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:14]: As a current student, what types of challenges are you and your peers currently facing that you wanna be the problem solver for as you come into the profession?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:07:23]: So when I did choose to come to this profession, I already decided there were some concerns that I definitely wanna take place in or advocating for. And one of it is really just curriculum. I know that it's not easy to work on, but for me, education reform meant student issues with standardized testing, GPA, outdated curriculum, and then staff and faculty issues. As I got into NASBA, and like just in general, some other higher education as a whole, I realized staff and faculty are the point of contact for students and parents, and they're blamed for anything and everything sometimes that are not even under their control because administrators or the government made those rules. But I feel like staff and faculty issues with overworking, understaffed, under resourced, underfunded. These kind of issues are important. Also, underpaid. That's one thing.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:08:16]: We're all in here for passion because I feel like the amount of wage issues we have is kind of concerning. And then just in general, wellness as a whole, I don't feel I feel like we try to prioritize wellness, especially last few years, but there's more to go into it. And sometimes, like, we try to find work life balance or wellness as a whole, but that's not realistic. So also, like, that learning, not just for students, but for staff and faculty so that, there's more resources for them and everyone. But personally, one thing I care about is nutrition. I feel like campus foods could be better. There's a lot of issues with it. I tried doing a research project, it never worked out, but I would probably do that for my master's or PhD, who knows, which is my goals.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:09:01]: But I know there's a lot of other issues with diversity inclusion, title 9, safety, accessibility to nontraditional students. One of the main populations I wanna serve is nontraditional students because we always forget that they're students from different cultural, economic, religious backgrounds, and to serve all of them is really important. People come from different backgrounds. How can you accommodate everyone is important. So I know that's a lot, and sometimes people tell me you're very unrealistic with abolishing standardized testing, abolishing GPA or outdated curriculum. And I'm like, probably I mean, yes, it's probably, like, unrealistic for now. But eventually, I know that it's a process or a journey that I could reach. And I'm just at the start of my journey, so there's a long time to achieve this.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:50]: You're a future VPSA in the making. You've got long range goals. And if you're going to change systems, it takes time. We have a colleague, I would say a late colleague actually, who loved the quote, if you want to go far, go together. If you want to go fast, go alone. It's an African proverb. And that was said often by Mary Anita Nesbitt, who was a colleague of mine at Washington State University. And she really lived that through her work, and that is something I hear you're working towards.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:18]: So I I like to see those threads tugged on, by multiple people across space and time. And as you look forward to that, how are you approaching the journey into possible master's programs?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:10:29]: So like I said, I'm a huge planner. So I've already started my planning, like, long time ago. But event starting this summer, I've gotten more serious about it with my master's planning so that I could apply. December is the deadline for a lot of programs. So kind of researching what programs are there and what meets my needs. One thing about me with master's planning or anything, I'm also, like, the type of person that thinks as much as a program or even a job recruits me, I'm also getting into that program. So, I mean, my needs also met. So I have some requirements for myself of, like, choosing between in person or online programs, if I should do graduate assistantship jobs or anything of that sort.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:11:09]: So there's a lot of options. But most importantly, I feel like I wanna figure out what are the ethics, values, and purpose of each of these programs in different institutions? Because I understand that not my whole, like, handbook of myself of ethics values could align with the institution's policies. But at least them understanding and accepting or respecting my perspective is important to me, because I don't wanna get to a space and have negative trauma or any kind of concerns. So I wanna prevent that before I get there. So in that sense, also realizing that. So I'm in the journey of, like, planning, figuring out what requirements or financial requirements. I'm a 1st generation student. So also, like, making sure that I understand what I'm doing, and I'm doing this kind of, like, alone, you know, most first gen students.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:11:57]: So kind of figuring that out. And kind of the main thing I'm doing right now is scheduling a meeting with different people within an institution. I felt like with the same point I just started off with. I need to meet with an admission or HR office, a professor, a student, and alum for each institution I want to go to, so that I get different perspectives of living at an institution. Sometimes I might not be able to do that for every institution, but my hope is to do that so I can get make the best decision. But I have chosen top 3 universities I'll definitely apply that I know of, so I'm ready for it. And I feel like it's important that I take this step in my higher education, especially as a 1st year student, because just starting undergrad itself is big deal. And then continuing to master's program is a whole another level of a challenge.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:12:49]: So I feel like there's gonna be challenges coming in between with the background I come from and kind of making sure everybody understands that or just that me sticking still and strong on my words and my needs. So there will be challenges, but I'm ready for everything, I guess. And that's kinda like where I'm at with master's program. And, really, me as an individual, I feel like no matter what I choose, I'm an overthinker, but I also wanna make sure I'm actually planned and prepared because I don't wanna get into something and struggle to a point. I'm I mean, I would struggle, but at least I wanna be ready for it or prepared for it, which is why I kind of am in the plans.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:32]: You mentioned that your background is having an influence on your selection process. Would you mind sharing some of your background with our listeners?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:13:40]: Definitely. So there's a lot of background identities I take myself pride in or perspective in. So one of which is being an Asian and specifically Indian, and that brings a huge influence as to my education, my lifestyle, and everything. And I say that to say because my whole family of 1 and also my gender as a female. Majority of females within India or Asia are not still working or not still studying, if that makes sense. So even my family has a background. Pretty much my mom and pretty every woman from last generations have not studied or graduated or anything of that sort. They got married early on and or housewives, which I support.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:14:26]: Everybody's journey is different, but they weren't given the option. So for me, I have the option or that which I'm grateful for. Some of this is like, oh, it's a basic need to have education. But for me, sometimes, for some people coming from different backgrounds, more than a need, it's us getting that, like, individual morality from our family and support, which I appreciate my family for. But that also gives me a huge challenge or responsibility to keep my word in that education past. But, again, the identity of being an Asian and Indian as a female that, like, statistics from how it was from past to now and how you want to be the change maker in your in, area is important. Being a 1st gen student, is also crazy because you have no support from family, so you kinda have to freestyle everything. Lot of, wood statistics again.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:15:21]: I feel like, a lot of first and students are overachievers. They wanna make sure everything's perfect. They wanna do everything they can to get acceptance from their community, their family, and everything of that sort. So it's a challenge, but I feel like those identities involve a lot of hard work. And I'm willing to put my time and effort into it, but I feel like these are really significant. My identities with my gender roles within my community of being an Indian or Asian, and also with the subject I chose. It's kind of irregular within my background to choose education system, like work or career within the education system. Everybody, we know the stereotype, Asians go to STEM.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:16:04]: And I'm fully opposed to that. But again, that's depending on the choice of people. But I want to break break those stigmas, stereotypes, microaggressions, or everything and prove people wrong that I could still make it in life, in other words, or grow without being in a STEM major, without doing the specific pathway, an individual creative for me, whereas I have to create my own pathway, if that makes sense. So my identity has given me so much influence onto what I should do, how I should lead my life and that in a positive way, but it comes with a lot of challenges. So it's like you gotta balance it out and choose what's best for you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:46]: And you chose to attend an HBCU for your undergraduate experience to receive the support and care that you needed as a person of color in the higher education community, as a first gen student. What are some of the things that your institution has done exceptionally well to ensure that you have that support safety net in place as you move through your undergraduate career.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:17:06]: Definitely. So that's one of the greatest thing I've specifically experienced last few years in a good and bad way, but the bad way has told me the resources I've on campus. So I had to deal with the concern on campus and I had to report it. And then I got the full support from my diversity and inclusion department on campus. They were very supportive and they gave me the resources I needed, counseling center, and so much more. So I feel like, yes, there won't be, like, a full not sure what the word is, but, like, a whole red carpet pathway of welcome. There will be challenges and issues. I had to face an offensive statement, a body shaming, and a racial slur on a HBCU.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:17:49]: But still I made it through with the support, with staff and faculty. So I was directed to the resources we had. And most importantly, sometimes it's not really the resources on campus, but the people you meet on campus that you connect with. There's a lot of peer mentoring groups and peer support, and I personally support a lot of my peers whenever they have these kind of challenges, and they're always there for me. One of the biggest reasons were I had to figure out this whole journey of why am I falling into these issues or stuff like that. And then these friends, I guess. I can't even believe that they're my friends because if you think about my past to now, I wouldn't assume that this would have gone this way. But I feel like at the end of the day, it's a well put out book.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:18:36]: It has a beginning and end conclusion, which is still continuing, like, as a chapters of life. But I feel like it's coming together already. So it's just we have resources, but sometimes it's just next to you, and you gotta realize the people that are near you could also be a resource. It does not necessarily have to be a department.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:56]: As we get older as a generation of student affairs professionals, we are farther and farther away from the present day student experience in terms of how it reflected our own experience. And it's our job to change our mindsets with new generations of students and different needs and different sets of expectations and all of those things. What would you like current student affairs professionals to know about the present day college experience, especially for students in that kind of average 18 to 25 year old range that maybe we're not seeing or not thinking about or you wish we thought about more?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:19:30]: This is a clear answer for me, and I'm excited to share this because it's a problem, honestly, that I wish a lot of staff and faculty realize, it's the collaboration I wish, the bridge between student affairs and academic affairs that I wish is not broken and that we can kind of combine together for collaboration. And I've always discussed about it and the way it impacts students. Because I feel like with students, especially student leaders as a whole, we have a lot of stuff on our plate and we're passionate about student leadership to a point. We're part of 1,000 student orgs, extracurriculars. Most of us do 2 to 3 jobs and a lot of other things apart from academics. Ideally, from past and history, from what I've heard, everybody was like, education come in and out of class, and that is all you gotta do for the degree, which is still the reality of getting a degree. But college life is more than just getting that degree. It's experiencing life as a part of college life.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:20:32]: I felt like in past, it was like when you're in college or when you're in just like your education era, it was more of education was your life. Now people have realized with the 8 dimensions of wellness, it's reality of wellness or life as a whole. There's more to life than education. It's part of your life. It's not your life. And so I wish staff and faculty realize the struggle that students are going through in balancing because they're still students. Sometimes staff forget, oh, they're adults. They gotta figure it out.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:21:03]: But it the reality is, yes, we're trying to figure it out. We're still trying to figure it out. Most of the adults that have graduated are still trying to figure it out and change stuff, their careers, or anything in a minute. So them expecting us to have our life together once we get to college because we're adults is kind of unrealistic because we have to go through some issues with maybe family emergencies or just in general life as a whole in balancing social life, extracurriculars, and how this generation is in a competition. Of course, every generation is it. But like for me, I feel like because of the economic state, we're trying to get jobs, we're trying to live because in past, you guys could afford a house to buy a house. Now we can't afford to rent a house. That says a lot.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:21:50]: And us, we want to make sure that we gain as much experience as possible to get a job that can pay for basic needs, because unfortunately, I feel like a lot of students can't even meet the basic needs because of the economic state. And I wish staff and faculty could understand that as we're dealing with this concern, because it's important that, yes, we have academics, but can we actually have a practical life skills and actually learn that there's more to life than this course and the GPA? Because, yes, this is important, but a number does not define my talent in education. Because outside that classroom, I'm a talented artist. I'm a talented professional. I'm part of 5 orgs. I do this, this, that. And I got 3 awards. And this is me personally.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:22:36]: But, again, a lot of students did have to deal with this, and some of them had to quit a lot of their passions just so they they could get that degree. And was it worth it? Some of them even had to cheat or plagiarize just so they could get a degree. And so it's like, is it worth a degree if you're cheating and just doing something just for the sake of societal expectation of getting the best grade when you can do what you like while also knowing that education is just part of life and also enjoying life as a whole with campus life, which is where student affairs comes into place. And just the fact that, like, with my first point of the bridge between student affairs and academic affairs, I feel like sometimes there's a fight between them. It's like not student affairs and academic affairs, student affairs versus academic affairs. Like, both of those are important. I mean, both divisions are important. But I feel like academic affairs thinks or assume sometimes that student affairs is just giving away random stuff, like gifts and and getting students to do parties and stuff.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:23:40]: But we're more than that. We have a lot of resources we're providing and providing them life. And then academic affairs, as important as doing all this, you're coming to campus paying 1,000 of dollars just for that degree. So it's I'm not saying academics is not important, but I wish that we could collaborate as professionals together with those 2 deficient to make it better for the students. Students already have to go through a lot of other things, especially with the economic state, the journey that they have to go through to just have some basic need. I don't know if that makes sense. I know it was kind of a lot, but it's comes from my experience and my peers. And I just feel like all these concerns that student go through causes a lot of student suicide, student mental health issues, and so much more.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:24:28]: And still, I want to make sure, yes, this sounds like us complaining, but we're complaining for a reason because we've seen our peers struggle through it, and we're barely surviving.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:38]: I think advocating for your needs is not a complaint. Advocating for your needs is what helps us understand what it is that student affairs needs to be doing the same and differently in order to support your journey. That's what we're here to do is to help you develop into a fully functioning member of society as you move across the stage, get your diploma, and then head into the working world wherever that might be. And it is a different economic environment right now than it was 10 years ago, 20 years ago. I do wanna say though, you mentioned that quote unquote you all can afford to buy a house. I think that's only true for, like, baby gen xers and baby boomers. And right now, you know, a lot of millennials are struggling with that too. And I think it's important for our gen z students and young professional colleagues to understand that that is a problem that's been plaguing us for quite a while.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:23]: And so I think that economic perspective is also something that the student affairs profession really is going to need to come to terms with pretty soon here. The federal overtime laws, I think, are gonna make an impact on how things change for us. But I think more often than not, we have a wage gap in the profession, and that's just something that I know everyone is trying to figure out how to tackle. And I don't know that any of us have done it well or right yet, but it's gotta be something that we reckon with as a field. So that leads me right into our theme questions for the season. So, Kamaakji, I have 3 questions for you on the past, present, and future. So on the past, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should either continue to carry forward or we really need to let go of?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:26:08]: So I have a long answer, but I'll keep it short. I feel like with any system, but focusing on educational system, sometimes it's build with pillars with that foundation. So I wish people realize that whenever we got some kind of new thing, that they don't just concentrate on that, but go back and actually resolve one concern. Because I feel like with any system, there's been back to back issues. And so people, whatever is a current issue, they're focusing on that, doing whatever they couldn't to resolve it, but realize the past issue has never been resolved. So I feel like with the history, I wish there's a change in terms of how people realize that, yes, there's a lot of issues, but make sure when you start a project, you finish that concern before you get to another concern kind of thing. So let's say again, as an example, DEI and Title IX. If there's an issue with DEI this year, the Title IX next year, next year people are forgetting all the work they've done with DEI and starting on title 9, but this has never resolved.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:27:09]: So I feel like it's important to stick on one thing, resolve it instead of just building so many blocks and never resolving none of them. It's important to go back and realize we need to rebuild all this because we're renovating, but we actually have to, like, rebuild everything. There's no foundation. There's just pillars.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:30]: Moving into the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:27:36]: I feel like as much as collaboration can be improved, it has been better for the current student affairs journey because the way that we're promoting professional development for staff faculty to support the students then at end of the day is really important with NASPA and many other orgs. So I feel like that's the best thing that's happening in student affairs, the collaboration and the willingness to support staff and faculty as much as we can. Because at the end of the day, they're the point of contact for students. If they're not well, how are the students gonna be well and get the support they need? So I feel like the current state it could be better, but it's definitely been better than in past.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:15]: And looking towards the future, in an ideal world, what does the field need to do to thrive towards our future?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:28:21]: I mentioned with past. I feel like the field needs to get to a conclusion to build collaboration so that they can definitely rebuild the structure of student affairs in a way where it actually is gonna work, and it has a foundation and pillars where everything is gonna be solid.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:42]: So, Kamakshi, is there anything else that you'd like to share on the past, present, and future of the profession?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:28:47]: Well, if I could, I'll share forever and talk with you for hours, but with time's sake. In conclusion, I feel like we had a great conversation, and it's important to talk about this because there's change every day, and we gotta adapt and accommodate the needs of the current generation or be more of current. And so I wish there is more work towards it. I know we are working towards it, but I just wanna make sure with my work that it's definitely a continuous journey of consistency in growth for the collective, and nobody's doing it for themselves. It's, at the end of the day, benefit in the growth of the system.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:28]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:34]: Thanks, Joe. So excited to be back in the NASPA world. Today, I want to start off by congratulating our 2025 pillars of the profession. Each year, the NASPA Foundation recognizes exceptional members of the student affairs and higher education community through the pillars of the profession award, one of the foundation's highest honors. The award comes from you, our members and supporters, as a way to recognize your fellow colleagues who represent outstanding contributions to our field and our organization. Individuals receiving honors this year are Kevin Kruger receiving the 2025 John L Blackburn distinguished pillar of the profession award and the following individuals receiving the 2025 NASPA foundation pillar of the profession. Mordecai Ian Brownlee, Ainsley Carey, Zduy B. Chu, Philip Covington, Frank Cuevas, Jon Dooley, Jacinda M. Félix Haro, Leanna Fenenburg, Anne G. Flaherty, Ann M. Gansemer-Topf, Cynthia L. Hernandez, Mylon J. Kirsky, Ryan Lombardi, Roger Ludeman, Keegan Nichols, Patty Perillo, Frank Ross, Alvin Sturdivant, Rameen Talesh, and Derek Vergara. I am so excited to be able to welcome all of these deserving individuals to the pillars of the profession. And you have an opportunity to be able to celebrate the 2025 pillars of the profession with a donation to the NASPA Foundation in their honor. Take a moment to say thank you to these amazing professionals. You can donate online and learn more about the foundation's pillar class.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:14]: There's still time to sign up for a new short course, campus Crisis Management in Times of Chaos. This course starts online September 23rd and goes through October 25th. You can either register by yourself or for you and a team to acquire the competencies and knowledge that will help you support your students when crisis situations arise. The course will give a broad overview of how student affairs professionals can best support their students and campus during crisis situations. Topics will include foundations of crisis management, crisis management teams, or emergency management teams, the creation of crisis management plans, communications during times of crisis, recovery following an incident, and relationships across the institution and with outside agencies. Registration is still open, and you can sign up up to the live session start of September 23rd. So I highly encourage you to look internally at your own institution for ways to be able to engage your own campus in some amazing dialogues that will help your campus to be ready in times of crisis. I know I've talked about it in the past, and there are always opportunities to be able to give back to the NASPA family and community.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:28]: And one way is through the NASPA journal board. There are a number of opportunities that are currently open for individuals to be able to get involved in our NASPA journal board. Some available opportunities include being an editorial board member or a new professional and graduate student review board member for the Journal of Student Affairs Research and Practice, an editorial board member, or a new professional and graduate student review board member for the Journal of Women and Gender in Higher Education or an editorial board member for the Journal of First Generation Student Success. If any of these sound interesting to you, I highly encourage you to apply for these opportunities. You can find out more on the NASPA website. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways, because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:42]: And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:37]: Chris, thank you so much for continuing to share with us what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Kamachi, we have reached our lightning round. So I have 7 questions for you to answer in about 90 seconds. You ready to roll?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:34:49]: I'll try my best.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:50]: Alright. Number 1, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:34:55]: This Girl is on Fire.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:57]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:35:02]: I just wanted to be a kind person that had an influence on people just like I was as a child.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:08]: Number 3. Who's your most influential professional mentor?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:35:11]: Oh, I got a list of 1,000 people, but I got to say huge shout out to miss Lauren. She was enough board member, and she's one of my best mentors currently.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:22]: Alright. Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:35:26]: Honestly, I'm not a reading person as much, so I don't have anything as of now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:30]: Number 5, the best TV show you've binged lately.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:35:33]: I'm not watching TV shows. If I were to, it's really like my native language. But I can say I binge on Office at times just for fun because you always need that fun with chaos happening.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:45]: That comfort show. Yeah. Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:35:50]: I don't listen to podcast again as much, but if I do, sometimes my advisers suggest some of these yoga meditation podcasts, so I love to, like, just tune into those. But also, there's been, like, a podcast about reform and nonprofits, which is my kind of industry, so I listen to those too.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:09]: And finally, number 7. Any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:36:13]: Oh, shout out to myself. I mean, I've not expected myself to be in this stage, and I feel like a lot of people think this is selfish, but it's important to be selfish for yourself. It's more of self love and care. So I shout out myself for getting to the stage. Like you said, I'm kind of proud of myself for being here today to be part of a NASPA, National Association, and working with all these professionals and the fact that they respect and value me. Yes. I'm an undergraduate student and maybe like that societal normals age and everything changes. But, like, again, the respect I get is really appreciated.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:36:49]: So I'm proud of myself and a huge shout out to me, but also huge shout out to you for pulling this off and doing great stuff. Now this is our first time meeting, but this has been a great pleasure talking with you. And I really appreciate how you led this and all the NASPA professionals, or not just NASPA, everybody, because we're trying our best. I know it's not gonna happen in one day, but we're making it through. And that's a shot at itself.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:12]: It's been a joy to listen to your perspective. And I am very much looking forward to watching your rise in the profession over the next several years. And if anyone would like to connect with you after the show airs, how can they find you?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:37:24]: So my emails, I'll say to, is [email protected] or [email protected] . Eagle pride again. And then you can also find me on LinkedIn with my name, Kamakshi Velamuri, kamakshivelamuri. Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:52]: Kamakshi, thank you so much for sharing your voices with us today.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:37:56]: Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:01]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:43]: Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

Artificial Intelligence (AI) is rapidly reshaping various sectors, and academia is no exception. In a recent episode of the SA Voices From the Field podcast, hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton, guest Dr. Daniel Weisglass shared his expert insights on the role, challenges, and potential of AI in higher education. Dr. Weisglass, an assistant professor of philosophy at Duke Kunshan University, delves into academic integrity, student affairs, and the future landscape of education with a particular focus on AI tools.

At the heart of the discussion is the need for rethinking traditional academic assessments in light of AI advancements. Dr. Daniel Weisglass emphasizes the importance of critically evaluating the types of assignments given to students. He suggests that faculty members collaborate closely with academic integrity units to adapt their methodologies in response to the changing academic environment.

AI, particularly generative models like GPT (Generative Pretrained Transformer), can produce seemingly original essays and content. This poses a significant challenge to traditional assessment techniques, which often rely on evaluating written assignments. Dr. Weisglass advocates for the adaptation of in-person assessments to maintain academic integrity. Such measures echo the early days of Google search usage when educators needed to adapt to a new tool that changed how students accessed information.

Maintaining the historically valuable elements of student affairs is another critical point discussed by Dr. Weisglass. He underscores the importance of deep, meaningful connections and personal development in education. The role of mentoring and teaching in shaping students' experiences and growth remains as crucial as ever, despite the growing presence of AI in academia.

Dr. Weisglass suggests that while AI can support student affairs professionals by recognizing emotional patterns and raising alerts, it should not replace human interactions. The human aspect of teaching and mentoring is irreplaceable, and AI should serve as a supplementary tool rather than a substitute.

The current state of student affairs has seen an increased awareness and maintenance of campus cultures. Dr. Weisglass highlights the new challenges posed by AI-enabled academic and student conduct violations. With the advent of sophisticated AI tools, distinguishing between AI-generated and human-generated content becomes increasingly difficult.

To combat these challenges, Dr. Weisglass advocates for developing robust administrative standards for safety and security. He also highlights the necessity of continual responsiveness and adaptation to student needs. As student affairs professionals, it is essential to stay ahead of technological trends and ensure that the academic and personal growth of students is not compromised.

Looking ahead, Dr. Weisglass envisions a future where student growth remains the primary focus, without leaning too heavily on a customer service-oriented approach. He emphasizes that flexibility, continual responsiveness, and reflective responses are key to effectively preparing students for a rapidly changing world.

Incorporating AI into education requires a thoughtful approach to designing prompts and assignments. The goal is to make use of AI tools, like GPT, to support the development of labor-intensive skills such as ethical analysis. Educators need to balance leveraging AI to aid the learning process while maintaining the integrity and authenticity of student work.

Dr. Weisglass discusses various AI tools and their applications in higher education:

1. Predictive AI: This AI type forecasts trends and flags at-risk students based on data patterns, such as class attendance. It helps institutions take proactive measures in student support.

2. Generative AI: While capable of generating new content, generative AI raises concerns about academic integrity. This type of AI can fabricate information and compromise data privacy.

3. Gamma Tool and Copilot: Gamma converts Word documents into detailed PowerPoint presentations, aiding in educational settings. Copilot, part of the Office 365 suite, helps summarize emails and meetings, streamlining administrative tasks.

4. Cite.ai: This tool assists in generating literature reviews and finding specific articles within academic research, ensuring the accuracy and authenticity of data.

Dr. Weisglass also stresses the importance of ensuring data security agreements with AI tool providers or developing in-house models to safeguard student data.

The insights shared by Dr. Daniel Weisglass underline the transformative potential of AI in higher education, along with its challenges. The integration of AI tools, such as GPT, must be approached with a balance of innovation and ethical considerations. By rethinking academic assessments and maintaining the human elements of teaching and mentoring, educators can harness AI's potential to enhance the educational experience while preserving the integrity and personal growth of students. As we navigate this evolving landscape, the role of AI in academia will continue to be a dynamic and critical area of exploration.

About our guest

TRANSCRIPT (Unedited transcript created by Castmagic)

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Welcome back to a new episode of SA Voices from the Field, where today we will feature Doctor. Daniel Weissglass. Doctor. Weissglass is an assistant professor of philosophy at Duke Kunshan University, which is a Sino US liberal arts institution located near Shanghai, China. His work focuses on the ethics of science, health, and technology with a special interest in the use of artificial intelligence to meet health needs in low and middle income countries.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:49]: He also works in various ways to help DKU make the most of AI as an educational tool, as well as assisting in the development of policies regarding their safe, effective, and ethical use. So today's episode is gonna be focused on the use of AI in higher education. Daniel, welcome to student affairs voices from the field.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:01:06]: Thanks so much, Jill. Glad to be here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:08]: It's great to see you. Daniel and I have known each other for a couple years now, and we're coming to you from across massive time zone difference. I'm sitting here in the UK and Daniel's sitting over there in China. So I can see the sun setting on his end and the sun rising on mine.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:01:22]: There's maybe a metaphor, appropriate to the the topic of today's meeting about that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:26]: Oh, I'm excited to get into that. Daniel, you make your livelihood as a philosopher. And so I always like to ask our guests kind of how you got to your current seat, but we're speaking with you mainly today because of your burgeoning career in academia and artificial intelligence AI. So, yeah, tell us about how you got here.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:01:46]: Well, interestingly, I can kind of weave those 2 together. Actually, part of what brought me into philosophy was an interest in AI. Now this was back before the the big data science boom even. So what AI meant at the time was a very different concept, one that had more to do with replicating human capacities and building something human like or assisting human in those performance is and and less to do with something like the large scale statistics that we see today. And the questions I kept finding myself asking was, well, if we're gonna talk about replicating something like human intelligence, I need to know better what that is. So I went into study in the philosophy of mind, and I also double majored in psychology. And I think the interest I have had in AI throughout my career is part of what brought me to where I am at DKU. DKU, Duke of Kunshan University, where I work, is a very interdisciplinary institute.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:02:34]: It doesn't really follow traditional divisional or disciplinary divisions. We don't have departments. Right? We have these big, houses. I say for the audience, Gil, you know all of this. And when I presented my initial research presentation, it was actually about not artificial intelligence, but artificial emotion and the possibilities that might bring for things like moral control of AI. So I think this has been sort of a natural path for me. And then with the recent explosion in AI interest post large language models, the place for someone who can think critically and with some sort of baseline informative informedness about AI technologies, about the values that we have in using those technologies, has become more and more central to the mission of academic institutions worldwide. And I was very fortunate to find a community here that supports me pursuing that path.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:26]: You mentioned something that I've not heard in these conversations a lot, which is not artificial intelligence, but artificial emotion or the the mimicization of human emotion in AI. And typically, we're talking about AI ultimately being barely stupid because it's only as good as what we input into it. Talk to us a little bit more about that emotion component.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:03:47]: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. So there's a small literature on what's called synthetic emotion usually. And there are a couple of ways of understanding what that means. One is being able to respond to emotional cues of users appropriately. You can almost see this in chat gpt when it says, oh, I'm sorry. I made a mistake. Right? And that's important for a lot of reasons.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:04:07]: One being that people are more likely to maintain systems that apologize when they fail. This was an interesting set of studies on that. But what I was more interested in is systems that try to replicate the you might call input output mapping, the sort of function in the mathematical sense that human emotions have. So ideally, a system that is capable in this way would be able to, for instance, look at an image and identify the emotion that that image would produce in most viewers. So if it showed an image of a person in suffering, right, it would it would identify that this would produce sorrow or sympathy. And this is really important, this kind of input output mapping, to producing morally correct responses in some cases. Emotions play a huge role in how we make moral choices and how we decide to respond to morally loaded events. And so there's a hope that we can make artificial moral agents, is the term that gets thrown around in the in the literature, that would be able to adequately replicate these components of moral reasoning, which I think must include something like emotion, so that they can regulate themselves more effectively.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:05:10]: Now, presumably, we wouldn't want to take people out of the loop entirely. But if you don't ask them to regulate themselves based upon these basic presuppositions that we have captured in our emotional systems, you get behavior that can be very dangerous and and very much outside of what we call alignment. You get systems that are willing to lie, hate, steal, harass people, all of these things. And so the hope was and and what I was working on at the time, and it still is sort of on a back burner, is that synthetic emotion might be able to improve this, provide some sort of safety by allowing them to analyze allowing AI tools to analyze morally loaded instances in a way that's more similar to the way that humans do. There are a lot of challenges to that. But in context of something like an academic environment, this might involve something that's emotionally sensitive and responsive to student users, for instance, right? So imagine as we've been kicking around here the idea of an advisor bot. So you've got a first run chatbot that interacts with students. You don't just want the chatbot to be able to recognize the question and its meaning in a literal sense.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:06:11]: You might also want it to note certain emotional patterns that could emerge in the way students are responding. Right? You might want it to note that, the questions this person is asking and the way they're asking them as the semester goes on really seem to indicate that this the student's not doing so well. Right? And maybe it could raise a flag there. Now this would be a, you know, a much more complex system most likely than what we're dealing with in the near future, but that was the idea. And I think synthetic emotion is an under explored space in education in the same way that emotion in general, in pedagogical context and advising context is underplayed. Right? We focus so much on cognitive expertise. We sometimes forget that this is broadly speaking a care profession, and we underplay the importance of that sort of emotional intelligence and emotional engagement, I think.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:00]: For student affairs professionals, that's where we spend most of our time is working with students in that high EQ space, in that high empathy space. And the thought of having an AI bot to help us support that work is a really fascinating one. On my end, I'm teaching currently the technology module for masters in student affairs through NASPA and LUMSU University. And I just had my first lecture about a week and a half ago, and it was all about introducing student affairs professionals to user and AI tools. We're not talking about the technological side of machine learning and how we're feeding large language models and things like that. But really, what can these things do for us to help support our work? Because at the end of the day, when we're working with students, it's a human centered profession. And I don't believe any sort of technological replacement that can get us to a place where we don't need human interaction is the core of what we do in a university setting. I think that there's cognitive development that can happen through these bots or even quick answers.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:55]: But when you're having a really hard day, talking to a bot is probably not going to help you find a space of resilience or thriving. But we also have, I think, jumped ahead quite a lot. We're already speaking from a at least a novice perspective on AI. So I want us to back up a little bit to, just give some primer and basics for someone maybe who has heard of AI but has never tried using a large language model. Maybe they're using predictive AI and they don't know it. Maybe they're a little fearful of the tools that are out there because they don't know much about them. So let's start with the super basic, which is can you describe for us the difference between predictive versus generative AI?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:08:34]: So, I mean, the to some extent, the answer is in the name. So a predictive AI is focused on predicting. This might be making a sort of, like, quantitative prediction, right, where it says, you know, given recent trends in the financial market, this is what we expect these things to go. Right? You might see these even with very, very simple forms, like expected grades could arguably be something of this kind. They'd be very simple. So predictive AIs attempt to predict. They might also try to protect things like categories. You might look at patterns of enrollment or something and say, well, this student is likely to be a major in philosophy.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:09:05]: This student is likely to be a data science major. And that could help you maybe plan staffing right down the road. They could also maybe identify students who we've noticed if you had the adequate data collection system. We've noticed this student has just missed 3 classes in a row across 2 different courses. Let's raise a flag. Something might be worth noting here. This is now a high risk student, maybe the classification would be. Generative AI works in a very different way.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:09:28]: What it does is is generate something. It produces, and there's some debate about how novel the outputs of these things are, but a novel output based upon usually a description of the desired output. So you go in and you say draw me a picture of a bird, and it draws you a picture of a bird. You go in and you say, and this is the kind of thing that tends to worry academics, Write me a 10 page paper about the role of Rene Descartes' mind body dualism in creating a a sort of, individualistic conception of the self which results in all these problematic ways of viewing one's connection to society. I'm getting down a path here. Sorry. I'll back up a little bit. But you, you know, you ask it your your essay prompts, it will write an essay.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:10:09]: Not always a good essay, but they're getting better. And so what generative AI does that predictive AI don't doesn't do is produce novel outputs, a novel at least in the sense that they're not just copy and pasting from somewhere. What raises concerns for academics, things like turn it in won't work, at least not as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:25]: That generative AI space, I think, is that scariest space for academia, particularly in the academic integrity front as you just mentioned. But I think it also requires that we reevaluate how we're assessing student learning. We've been relying on the essay for 100 of years in terms of the way that we measure if a student's critical thinking skills have evolved in the course that the way that we want them to. But if I put this prompt into AI about my image of self through the lens of Descartes, I could also ask it to do a niamic pentameter, and it's gonna spit out something, but it may also invent sources. It may also just make stuff up that is not relevant. It could insert a number of different factors that, maybe the end user doesn't know that it's inserting. But it's also going to take what I input into that model and use it to continually train. So none of my data is private when I go into these models because it is collecting it and then using that to continue to synthesize on its own.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:25]: But I I think what the most interesting piece is to me is that ultimately what we're looking at is math. We're looking at, how these machine learning components are taking language, which is ultimately just a variable for it, and then creating stories, full stories. So when you think about where we are right now in this moment in higher education, how do you believe that professors should be looking at these language tools, large language model tools in their work, in their assessment of student learning?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:11:53]: Excellent question. I think this is the one that most faculty are really struggling with. And I think there are a couple of things to say. One is these tools are widely available and often without charge, which allows for effectively every student to be doing what what our wealthy students, who were maybe or or less scrupulous wealthy students anyway, might have been doing in the past, which is hire someone to write an essay for them. Everybody gets to do that. Now that was always a problem. It always existed. But there was enough of a barrier that we kind of just let it slide, I think.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:12:24]: At least many of us did. Now we must respond. And the way we respond is gonna depend upon what your priorities are. Right? If you want to know that somebody knows something off the top of their head, you should be asking it in a classroom in front of you, maybe with a proctored test in some cases, if you're especially dealing with the increasing number of students who are dealing with with things like remote learning in some way. So there's this sort of, you know, if you wanna stick to the old old style and there are places where that's the right thing to do, you need to be doing it in person. But we also need to be thinking more broadly about what the world we're preparing our students to engage in is going to be like. These will be tools that they will have and be interacting with for the rest of their life. All of us will be whether we like it or not.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:13:05]: And so we need to think about the ways that within our discipline, we can utilize these tools both to leverage learning about our disciplinary skill sets and our disciplinary topics, and also that we can train students to use the tools. Right? So there's using the tool to teach, for instance, philosophy, and then there's also teaching students how to use the tool. We're kind of in the early days of Google search again, where every class suddenly had to have a discussion about how to use Boolean search operators and that kind of thing. And while sometimes some of the stuff you're seeing out there isn't really legitimate, you should know that people make stuff up and lie online, and here's how we identify good sources. And now we have to do that with generative AI systems. Right? You should know they hallucinate is the term that gets thrown around. Right? They they make up facts. You need to learn how to prompt them in ways that help you avoid that.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:13:55]: You need to learn which systems can be trusted for which kinds of things and generally best practices. I'm most excited about using them as tools to teach skills that are often labor intensive. So, again, as a philosopher and particularly in teaching ethics courses. Right? So there's a lot of skills that are important there about analyzing the ethical dimensions of a given case, about working through problems and reasoning effectively, and monitoring students while they do that is a wonderful thing to do and is possible in sort of a live action action way. But providing a chat GPT, a custom GPT that's been written to prompt my students to go through a certain set of steps, right, can provide them with maybe not quite the same quality, but a much more available version of this sort of prompt. Now I would never suggest that you could replace your your assessment that way or replace your your direct education that way. Right? There's still a place for for sitting in the room with me and working through it because I might notice problems that KKPT doesn't. But especially over time and with practice, as we learn how to use these tools ourselves, we can build these really cool interactive systems, sometimes called interactive tutor systems in the older literatures that help respond to our students where they are, guide them through complicated processes, and really have a lot of promise.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:13]: You said GPT a couple of times, so I just wanna clarify definition. So when we say chat GPT, that GPT stands for generative pretrained transformer. I think a lot of people don't know that it's an acronym or just haven't gone to the depths of understanding what that means. And so the generative pretrained transformer means that it's taking the information that is already been fed that pretraining component and then transforming forming it into the output that we see as human beings. But we have different versions of chat gpt that have evolved over time. 3.5 was the one that a lot of people were using for a very long time. Now for Omni is out, which is a paid service. And so for Omni is better for sure in terms of the input it's been given and the output that it will give you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:55]: And when we look at what students are doing, it's it's not unaffordable to to become a paid member of, for Omni. And so you can use that to your advantage. The models aren't necessarily at a place right now where they can continuously self learn in the same way that we might expect them to, like a human brain can. But the information it's getting fed is is much more interesting these days. I was teaching the use of GPT 3.5 in my course the other day. And one of the things that I love about the course that I'm currently teaching is that students come from a multitude of countries. I think we had at least 7 countries represented in that space. And so we also learned a lot about bias, in the prompts that we were using and who trains the models, whose values are inputted into the models, what assumptions are made.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:41]: One of the examples we looked at is how to respond to a highly critical email. And so what we had folks do is input the email into chat gpt, and then on the other side, ask it to craft a polite and salient response that covers these three points. We made sure to de identify any names. If your institution has a confidentiality clause of some kind, if you're trying to observe FERPA, you need to be really careful that you're not putting student identifiable information into these models because that data can be used. But what we got spit out was an extremely Americanized version of what that email can look like. And so it, again, raises the question, who is it for and whose biases are integrated into the system? And so the student that was representing work in Ireland said, I can't use this because it's too American and it doesn't meet my cultural needs. So we asked ChatCPT to transform that response to make it more culturally Irish, which I was real scared of that prompt. I'm not gonna lie.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:38]: I thought we were gonna border into some very racist territory, and we were breathing a bit of a sigh of relief when it transformed it into something that the student identified as a little more usable. We tried the same thing in Lithuanian, and it did not give us what we needed because we had a student representing Lithuania. So the limitations of these models is very real, and that happens for for student learning as well. And I I think this is also true for things like Copilot. So the I think the 2 most ubiquitous tools right now are Chat GPT and Copilot for the everyday user. The other one that I've recently really taken to is Gamma. Have you played around with Gamma much?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:18:14]: No. I don't think I have.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:15]: Gamma is great. I actually designed my lecture using Gamma. It is a tool that you can take a Word document of, like, just an outline and upload it, and it will generate a PowerPoint for you based on what you've put into the Word document. If you want it to, it will also generate a ton of detail. Inocuous or not, it will also generate images that sometimes are really funky, but we we can get into images in a second. But what it did, I asked it to make a sandwich as an example of of how to do this. So I put in 10 lines of what I think are the basic instructions on how to make a sandwich. And then you can choose if you want it to give you basic output, kind of middle output, or thorough output, and it will just go to town about sauces and vegetables and slicing and toasting bread and types of cheese and things like that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:01]: So I think the sandwich example is an easy one because it can show you what it will take, which is make a sandwich, take some bread, add some veggies, add some protein, add some cheese, eat your sandwich, which is basically what I gave it. They turned it into a 10 slide PowerPoint, elaborate, elaborate, elaborate PowerPoint. So check out Gamma if you get a chance. What other tools are you using that people should know about?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:19:20]: So like you said, the biggest sort of general purpose are CAT KPTN being Copilot right now. And they have got a different focus. Copilot's really working to integrate to the Office 365 suite in some interesting ways that I think have a lot of promise for administration, especially at universities. As we've all been on email chains with 45 professors and really, really wish that we could have an instantaneous summary of what's been happening, Copilot can do that. It can summarize everything that that that's been going on. It can even summarize the text of ongoing meetings less well, but from recordings identify what was said and give you the bullet points. So I think the administrative side will see a lot of Copilot in these applications in particular. Another prominent sort of general model is gonna be Anthropic's Claude model, which is like OpenAI's CATGPT in effect.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:20:06]: And at various times, they pulled ahead of one another and which one produces, in some sense, the best quality output. So these are sort of the major commercial general use systems. There are specialized systems. So I use one called site dotaiscite.ai. Maybe I should ask for, like, a a free month.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:26]: We are not sponsored by site.ai.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:20:27]: No. We are not. Right? But what it does is solve the problem that ChatTPD has or at least tries to solve the problem of making stuff up. So it is designed to look around a large corpora of published academic work and identify articles that relate to various topics. It can even write you a sort of general overview of our topic that has these articles. And for researchers like myself, when I when I do research, it can be very helpful in a lot of ways. One is I need to find a quick literature review, essentially. Give me 10 articles that talk about this topic in contrasting ways, and it will generate a pretty decent list.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:21:04]: The other and the one that is very much time saving as I'm sure you've encountered this too is, you know, when you're writing a a long paper, you've read 45, 50, a 100 articles on some topic, And you remember that one of them said something like this. And your options are pretty much to control f and go through every document looking for keywords. But if you get the keyword wrong, you're just gonna have to keep doing this over and over again. So you can give Cite a list of articles and ask it to make inferences based just on those articles. And you can say things like, where which of these articles is likely to have said something like this? And it can give you some direction there. So it's been a very interesting tool, and I think one that a lot of people in the academic areas will will look at. Another thing to keep in mind is that there are also open source versions of these tools. So things like Hugging Face is is a prominent I know it's a weird name.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:21:57]: A prominent provider of these sorts of sources which allow people to make custom tools and tools that might protect data in ways that are really important. So there are 2 ways to go. You keep you you brought up the data security point which is really important. There are 2 ways for an institution to go here. 1 is to work with a provider to develop a data security agreement and to ensure that your institutional data will not be used for training a model. We can do that, and and institutions have done that. And I believe Duke has done this with Copilot, can do this with CAT KPT, and sometimes you'll set up a sort of private instance of one of these models where you put it on a server that is sort of isolated from the rest of the system. So this is one way that institutions can handle the privacy issue.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:22:36]: Another though is to build one in house. Now these models tend to be not as well fine tuned. They tend to be based on sort of the base model. So when we talk about chat to GPT, right, the GPT refers to a foundation model, which is a general purse purpose model, which can be used in various ways by various tools to create whatever output you want. ChatGPT is a specialized tool made by a specific company. Right? It's a packaging of that for sort of client use. There's other ones like, Lambda is another prominent foundation model. And so you can use one of those, take it yourself to, be adequate to your purposes, but then you're going to be dealing with the need to maintain that system more in house.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:23:15]: You won't be automatically keeping up with improvements that are becoming standard elsewhere in the world like you would with a commercially mainstream model. And the process of fine tuning and improving performance can be really expertise and time intensive.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:29]: You've mentioned prompting the models a couple of times. I think this is an important point for us to get to. The philosophy I've come to adopt after watching, you know, hundreds of YouTube videos on how to prompt these systems well is garbage in, garbage out. That is, I think, the best way that we can encapsulate how how to prompt one of these systems. Meaning that the more specific that you can get with your prompt, the more likely you are to get a usable reply. And if you are putting in nonsense or garbage, you're going to get nonsense or garbage back on the other side. So for example, if I want to write a paper, and don't do this for your academic integrity reasons, but if I wanted to write a paper on the future of student affairs and I put in to the GPT program, write me a paper on the future of student affairs, it's gonna go every which way. But if I put in write me a paper on the future of student affairs that covers the integration of artificial intelligence and the replacement of human jobs with AI and make sure that it is in a professional style and uses at least 10 sources, I'm gonna get a much different output than if I just said that very simple thing at the front.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:24:37]: Learning how to prompt is an important part of learning how to use these tools, both for us and for our students. Right? So this is when I when I talked about the need to teach students how to use these tools. I teach research methods in some of my classes that are now based around the effective use of these tools. We need to learn how to prompt them and how to interpret their output in ways that are helpful. And there are a lot of different approaches to crafting prompts that produce a sort of certain desired behaviors. Generally, this is called prompt design, which can be contrasted with prompt engineering, which has more to do with efficiency of a performance of a system. But when you design a prompt, there's a lot of different ways to do this. I use sometimes cane of thought or instruct models, but the basic idea for both of these is to deal with a problem that most of these systems have, which is that they don't follow rules very well.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:25:26]: So, again, let's bring back the case of adviser GPT. Right? If I ask it, how do I major in philosophy without taking logic? It might say, oh, go. Yeah. Here's how you would do it. You would have to take all these other courses and talk to your adviser and get these substitutions, but what it ought to say is you can't. The systems are designed to be helpful. They will find you an answer even if it's wrong unless you tell it not to. And so with careful sort of design methodologies, you can say, okay.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:25:53]: Well, you don't you know, first, you review the bulletin and look for an answer to the question, then you craft an answer to the question, then you make sure that the answer you are about to give me is correct. If you don't if if you cannot find a citation in the bulletin, do not give the answer and instruct me instead that this is you don't know. Right? This is a really important thing, actually, teaching them how to tell you they don't know. And so prompt design really radically changes things. It's also one of the things that makes it, in some sense, more dangerous for academic integrity than people realize. It's very common for people to sit down with this tool and take the vanilla out of the box ChatPpt and say, well, I asked it my questions. It gave terribly bland answers. That's fine.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:26:33]: I would either be able to tell this or it wouldn't do well in my class anyway. But a student who knows what they're doing could upload your syllabus, the rubric for the assignment, any samples you've given, could upload work they have written in the past and say, match this style so that it's gonna sound like them writing for you. And and that's a a thing we need to understand.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:53]: I'm sorry. I I think this is a this is the critical juncture right now of where especially student affairs is with academic integrity and AI because a lot of universities put the AI and I use AI doubly here because we say academic integrity is AI as well as artificial intelligence. But the responsibility for academic integrity falls into student affairs spaces at a large number of universities. So what is your best pro tip on how to identify whether an essay was generated by a large language model in part or in whole?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:27:25]: So I I'll return to the analogy earlier that having your paper written for you by CAT GPT is kind of like hiring someone to write it for you. You will not, in most cases, be able to use automated tools to identify effectively whether or not a paper has been written by a large language model or Any Script generative AI. In fact, OpenAI pulled their tool down. Now there's some word that they might have a tool that does this, but the way their tool was intended to work was specifically with reference to work it produced. It would encode essentially a watermark in the way it codes words that would be undetectable to most readers, but they could detect in the statistical properties of the way the words are related. But, of course, that wouldn't work if someone used Claude. Right? If they used a different system, you no longer have that watermark system. So my big my first message is do not rely on automated detection of AI content.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:28:17]: It will not work effectively based on my understanding, and you're really risking unfairly penalizing students in ways that are not productive. The second is talk to them the same way that you would if you thought someone they had paid someone to write this paper. Say, you know, I find that your your use of this, William's 1998 paper really interesting. How did you come across that paper? They should have an answer, right, especially if this is reasonably close for the period when they wrote it. Right? Or, you know, you use this this term a lot. Can you explain to me what you mean by this term? These kinds of questions can give you a better sense. But in a lot of ways, we are now back to a period of academic integrity that many of our younger faculty, including myself, have never existed in before, which is there is not going to be certainty any long. Right? I'm used to only penalizing students for academic integrity when I went on Turnitin and went, oh, yeah.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:29:11]: Or I, you know, pulled a phrase and went to Google and looked it up and, well, there it is. Right? That's probably done at least for the foreseeable future. So get comfortable with ambiguity, return, and think very seriously about the standards of evidence that you are using to assess academic integrity, what degree of certainty you need to feel you have to feel confident in leveling certain types of penalties, and understand that this is going to become a more intensive investigating procedure than was often the case in recent years.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:39]: This is such a tricky space because I feel like it's a losing battle for those of us who work in the academic integrity space of whack a mole. Right? Is this one generated? Is this not generated? And the tools are only gonna get better. So, again, the question is really what are we trying to assess from our students and why are we trying to assess it? And now the third question is how are we going to assess it in a way that ensures that they're they're learning? And so we we do have, generative tools that can do voice. We have generative tools that can do writing. We have generative tools that can do images, and these are all getting more sophisticated. So, you know, in 5 years' time, there may not be a discernible difference, and we will see what happens. Right now, these programs can't do hands. It's the oddest thing.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:21]: If you ask a program to generate you an image of a human hand, they they somehow can't figure that one out. And the other one I saw interestingly the other day was that no large language model can correctly tell you the number of r's in the word strawberry because of the way that the algorithm is broken down.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:30:38]: So so there are some definite limitations. They're also bad at teeth. Anything that requires them to see inside of what they're doing, they are bad at. So they can't count, for instance. Right? So this is the number of r's in strawberry. They'll often struggle because they see that as a single unit and they can't crack it open to look at what's inside of it. So they're just very confused. If you ask them word counts, they can even struggle with that sometimes.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:30:58]: I think one thing you brought up is really important here is academic integrity is associated with the kinds of assessments we're using. And in fact, its function to some large degree is to maintain the authenticity of those assessments. And a lot of what's going to have to be communicated here is that we need to rethink assessment like we said earlier. And this is going to push back in some sense on faculty. Faculty need to be working with their academic integrity units to understand what can still be meaningfully assessed, what can still be meaningfully maintained in the classroom. If you really need to know that a student knows the date of some event or can analyze some text off the top of their head. Again, you should be doing that in class where such concerns are simply gone. Right? The blue book is gonna make a fierce comeback, I predict.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:31:44]: So, otherwise, we need to just be more critical about the kinds of assignments we use. A lot of us are operating on tradition. Same things with how we understand academic integrity is largely influenced by a long academic tradition that operated under a form of intellectual productivity that may no longer be a form that we will be operating under. And so we need to adapt to those changes even in concepts as basic as what does it mean to have academic integrity and what am I doing in this ethics class.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:11]: Which is an ethical question. Indeed. Very meta. Well, Daniel, this season's theme is the past, present, and future of student affairs. And knowing you're on the faculty side of things, you might have an interesting perspective for us. So I'm gonna ask you our 3 questions on our theme for the season. So focus on the past, What's one component of the history of the student affairs profession or tradition that you think we should continue to carry forward or to let go of?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:32:33]: I think looking at the things I wanna carry forward is again, I think I said this a bit earlier, but I I think of teaching and student affairs and the university as a whole more and more of as a care profession and as a mentoring process. This is work intensive. It can be exhausting and frustrating, but I think it's the important thing. And this is something we see, I think, taken more seriously in some sense in prior iterations of what the university meant. Now in some sense, that's because they didn't have the large class sizes that we're dealing with. They didn't have huge universities that sprawled in this way and had as their mission to bring education to a large number of people. Right? Education was an elite thing. But if we can capture that, that sort of deep powerful connection, that deep mentoring, then we still have a value add.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:33:24]: Right? Then we're still contributing somehow to their development as a person. And in a sense, answering the question that the university has been facing since the dawn of the printing press, which is if I can just go read this there, why do I need to talk to you?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:36]: Conan Gutenberg. Okay. Alright. So our question on the present. What is happening in the field of student affairs or higher ed right now that's going well for student affairs in general?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:33:45]: I think we're becoming much more aware of campus cultures and the way that they need to be maintained effortfully. There are debates and reasonable ones to be had about what exact boundaries we want to set on our cultures, but I think for much of our history, we haven't really been engaging with that question as substantively and as effectively as we have recently. To connect back to the AI concern, one thing that we need to think about very seriously is that these tools not only enable academic integrity violations, but student conduct violations of the kinds that we may never have seen.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:17]: Automated harassment is a very real possibility now.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:34:17]: We've already seen this in some it in the broader world. We've seen things like revenge porn being fabricated with AI tools. We've seen falsified videos and audio using other people's voices. These are questions that we are gonna have to start figuring out both how to protect our students from administratively, right? What standards of safety and security we put in play and also how we react to these sorts of things.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:47]: And moving towards the future, in an ideal world, what does the field of student affairs need to do to thrive going forward?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:34:54]: Oh, that's a big question. I suppose, I mean, the short and easy answer is to continue to focus on students. I do think there's a version of focusing too much on students that can be problematic for universities where we become too customer service oriented. We need to avoid that. I think the analogy that I find more effective is the gym. Right? Which is, look, we're here to help you learn, help you grow, but you have to come and still have to do the work. Right? We're not gonna lift the weights for you. And so I think student affairs institutionally and, you know, faculty as well, we need to think a lot about how to promote and prepare the student for the world world that is coming.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:35:26]: And that is always changing. Right? And in a sense changing maybe faster these days than it was in history. And so maybe it made hitting a sense of flexibility and continual check-in and continual responsiveness is an aspect of this. So like a continual reflective response to students needs and the likely future realities that they will face. That might be my answer, I think.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:47]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:53]: Welcome back to the NASPA World! I'm really excited to be able to share some of that with you today. Every October, NASPA celebrates the profession of student affairs. It's a month long celebration of careers in student affairs. In this month long celebration, the NASPA community comes together to share knowledge, network, and uplift the student affairs profession. There's a number of great activities that are happening throughout the month that you can take advantage of, that you can get involved in and encourage you to go into the NASPA online learning community to check out all of the resources that have been brought together in one place for careers and student affairs month. And think about ways in which you can talk about our career with people on your campus, with undergraduate students, graduate students, and more. There's a couple of opportunities for you to be able to submit proposals for a few of the upcoming symposiums and institutes that are happening within our community. The 2025 NASPA International Symposium proposal submission deadline is October 15th.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:56]: The International Symposium serves as a dynamic platform for student affairs professionals globally to share insights, engage in meaningful dialogue, and network, as well as practitioners interested in further developing their global competency skills. The international symposium is happening on March 15th 16th, and program submission deadlines are available on the NASPA website. And you can do a proposal for a flash lightning talk, a general intersession, poster session, or scholarly paper. Highly encourage you to submit a proposal today. Also, the 2025 NASA Community College Institute Institute proposals are due on October 18th. The 2025 Institute will focus on celebrating the achievements of student affairs professionals, equipping new generations for success in transforming the field through collaboration and mentorship. As mentioned, the deadline for proposals is October 18th, and I hope that you will submit a program and help shape the future of our profession. The NASPA public policy division award applications are due October 12th.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:02]: The NASPA public policy professional award honors exceptional leadership and commitment in student affairs through public policy. Nominate a deserving colleague with a letter of nomination to support letters and their resume. Don't miss this chance to shine or to shine a spotlight on an exemplary colleague. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:14]: I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:44]: Chris, thank you so much for another great addition of NASPA World. It's always great to know what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Daniel, we have reached our lightning round where I have 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. Are you ready to go?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:39:58]: We'll find out.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:59]: Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:40:04]: Time For Tea. I don't know. It's a weird song I really like.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:07]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:40:11]: A father, husband, and a good man.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:12]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:40:15]: Walter Sinnott Armstrong at Duke.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:17]: Number 4, your essential higher education read.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:40:20]: Why don't students like school?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:21]: Number 5, the best TV show you've binged lately.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:40:24]: The Sopranos. A little out of date, going back to the classics there.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:27]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:40:31]: Recently, it's going to be History of Philosophy Without Any Gaps, a fantastic podcast for anyone interested in the history of philosophy without any gaps.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:38]: Number 7, finally, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:40:42]: I oppose to everyone here at DKU who's been so responsive and helpful as we move forward towards an AI enabled future. We really had a lot of people who've been supporting these kinds of efforts. Noah Pichis and and Ben van Overmeijer, has been engaged in a lot of I I would have I would have to think, Ying Chong. Really, just everybody here has been very on board, I feel like, with this effort. And, you know, that's been very influential in getting this going.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:05]: Well, Daniel, it's been a pleasure to speak with you on this topic. I think this is a conversation we're gonna continue to have in higher education for many, many years to come. If anyone would like to connect with you on your expertise on AI or philosophy, how can they find you?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:41:17]: So the easiest way is to email me at [email protected]@dukecoonshaun.edu.cn. You can also find me on my website, danielweissglass. That's danielweiss blast.com. It's just my name, which I suppose will be in the show note.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:37]: Those show notes are partially generated by AI.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:41:40]: Fantastic. And I really am happy to talk about any of this stuff, and I expect to have even more interesting things to say in the near future. There's some interesting stuff happening here, and I think we'll we'll soon be in a position to continue the conversation.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:52]: Well, Daniel, again, a pleasure to have you on the show to talk with you about this area of subject matter expertise, and thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:42:00]: Thank you, Jill. It was a lot of fun.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:06]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful full that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:44]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

In the latest episode of SA Voices From The Field Dr. Jill Creighton has an engaging conversation with Lindsay Mason, a seasoned mid-level manager in student affairs at Colorado State University. The discussion revolves around the evolving landscape of student affairs, emphasizing the growing role of data, the need for AI and data science training, and the critical integration of social work theories. Let's delve into the key takeaways from this insightful episode.

The Data-Driven Evolution in Student Affairs

Mason highlights the increasing reliance on data in decision-making processes within student affairs. With technological advancements and the influx of data, professionals in this field can make more informed decisions that better support student needs. Dr. Creighton also underscores the importance of AI and data science training to enhance assessment practices.

Given the complexities of student demographics and the diversity of their needs, the ability to analyze and interpret data becomes crucial. This shift not only aids in identifying issues but also in implementing effective, evidence-based solutions. As student affairs continue to evolve, professionals must keep pace with these advancements to provide holistic support.

Integrating Social Work Theories

Mason advocates for embedding social work theories into student affairs programs. By doing so, institutions can offer more comprehensive support structures that cater to the multifaceted challenges students face. Social work theories emphasize empathy, community building, and systemic change—elements that are essential in fostering an inclusive campus environment.

This integration helps student affairs professionals to address issues such as mental health, food security, and housing instability more effectively. By viewing students through a social work lens, professionals can develop more tailored and impactful interventions.

The Critical Role of Town-Gown Relationships

The episode delves into the significance of town-gown relationships, a core component of Mason's role at Colorado State University. Town-gown work involves fostering collaboration between the university and the surrounding community, which is vital for professional development and creating a supportive environment for students.

Mason discusses her unique position split between the university and the city, focusing on conflict resolution and building partnerships with local stakeholders. This role is pivotal in mediating between long-term residents and student populations, ensuring harmony and cooperation within the community.

Addressing Housing and Food Security

The rising costs of housing and food insecurity are significant barriers to student enrollment and retention. Mason emphasizes the importance of supporting students facing these challenges, highlighting initiatives like the student resolution center and the fall clean-up program. Dr. Creighton agrees, noting the difficulty in identifying and supporting students with temporary housing issues.

Efforts to combat these issues are multifaceted, involving collaboration with local police services, property managers, and community liaisons. These partnerships are integral to creating resources that address the basic needs of students, thereby fostering a stable environment conducive to academic success.

Challenging Professionalism Norms

Mason and Dr. Creighton discuss the need to challenge traditional definitions of professionalism within student affairs. Ensuring that the profession is inclusive of all identities is paramount for social justice. Dr. Creighton provides a personal example, leading with visible facial piercings and tattoos, symbolizing acceptance and inclusivity.

Mason notes that embracing diverse expressions of professionalism empowers students and staff alike, encouraging authenticity and a sense of belonging. As the field evolves, redefining professionalism to be more inclusive will be crucial for supporting a diverse student body.

Upcoming Opportunities for Professional Growth

Dr. Lewis shares exciting opportunities for professional development, such as the upcoming annual NASPA conference and the 2025 NASPA Institute for New AVPs. These platforms are essential for networking, skill enhancement, and staying abreast of industry trends.

He encourages members to update their profiles to take advantage of these engagement opportunities, indicating the importance of continual learning and growth in the dynamic field of student affairs.

Mentorship and Influence

Throughout the episode, Mason acknowledges the profound impact of mentorship in her career. She mentions influential mentors like Jeannie Ortega, Emily Seams, and Nancy Rhodes, and her admiration for Cal Newport's work on deep, meaningful work.

These influences have shaped her approach to student affairs, emphasizing the value of dedicated, thoughtful engagement with work and continuous personal development.

A Path Forward

As student affairs continue to adapt and grow, the insights shared by Lindsay Mason highlight the importance of embracing data-driven decision-making, integrating social work theories, and focusing on inclusivity and social justice. The episode underscores the dynamic nature of the field and the need for ongoing professional development to better serve diverse student populations.

Through collaborative efforts, innovative approaches, and a commitment to fostering inclusive environments, student affairs professionals can navigate the challenges and opportunities of the evolving higher education landscape.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. Be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on essay voices from the field, we welcome Lindsay Mason. Lindsay is a first generation college student from a blue collar working class family. She currently serves as the director of off campus life at Colorado State University as one of the NASPA off campus and commuter student services knowledge community co chairs, and she teaches and advises graduate students studying student affairs. Lindsay's career has focused on town gown work for over a decade.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:50]: She earned her bachelor's degree in sociology from California State University, San Marcos, a master's degree in student affairs and higher education from Colorado State University, and a PhD in higher education and student affairs leadership from the University of Northern Colorado. Lindsay, welcome to SA Voices.

Lindsay Mason [00:01:06]: Thanks for having me, Jill. I'm excited to be here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:08]: In our pre show chatter, I was glad to get to know that we've spent time in similar parts of the country along the front range in Colorado. I know that you're having a much more beautiful summer than I am here over in England.

Lindsay Mason [00:01:20]: It has been lovely this summer. Yeah. For sure.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:23]: Well, Lindsay, we're gonna be speaking to you today all about your experiences at the mid level in student affairs in the present day about what's going on with the features of your work, particularly around town gown and serving commuter based students. But before we get into all of that, we really like to start by getting to know you by asking how you got to your current seat.

Lindsay Mason [00:01:43]: So I did my undergrad at Cal State San Marcos. And I remember when I was at my orientation, there was this opportunity that was shared where incoming 1st year students could be matched up with a senior in our student government for, like, a mentorship opportunity. And I remember getting the sheet to fill out to say, yes, I wanna do this. And I remember one of the questions was, what do you want your mentor to know? And I think what they were trying to get at was, oh, are you wanting someone that has a certain major that's similar to yours? Or maybe you're really interested in fraternity and sorority life, so you're looking for someone that's in a fraternity or sorority. I literally wrote, they need to know everything I need to know because I'm 1st gen. I didn't know what I was doing. And so anyways, I got hooked up with this senior and he recommended that I joined the orientation team. And so that's what got me into student affairs at first was his recommendation.

Lindsay Mason [00:02:35]: And I had excellent supervisors and mentors when I worked in orientation. And Dilsey Perez, one of my supervisors, she said, Lindsay, you should go into student affairs, and you should go to Colorado State's program. I heard it's off the hook. And I was like, okay. And so that's how I ended up at Colorado State coming out of Southern California. Once I was finishing my degree, my husband was also studying at Colorado State. He was finishing his degree and he needed a couple more years and we thought, okay, we'll do 2 more years at CSU and then we're going to go back to California to be with family. Coincidentally, at the time, my department, off campus life, was hiring a temporary program coordinator for just 2 years.

Lindsay Mason [00:03:17]: And so it felt like the perfect fit. They need someone for 2 years. I only intend to be here for 2 years. And I was a commuter student all my undergraduate years, and so I thought, yeah, I could do this. So I ended up in my department just I was in the right place at the right time. But here I am, 11 years later, as the director. So, obviously, I stuck around, and I was the program coordinator for 5 years, got promoted to assistant director, and then interviewed and went got the director role. And I also ended up pulling my whole family out to Colorado with me.

Lindsay Mason [00:03:46]: So they ended up following me versus me going back. So I really kind of built my roots here and it all ended up kind of working out. And I think because I've been in my department for 11 years, I do find my work very fulfilling, and I'm learning something new every day. But I think being in the same department for a long time has also pushed me to seek challenges elsewhere to make sure that I continue to grow and develop. So I was interested in getting involved with NASPA in some capacity. I've been attending the annual conference every year and had presented multiple times, but I was interested in more. And my KC was founded back in 2019, I think. And so it's a pretty young KC and so I had been working with commuter students for several years.

Lindsay Mason [00:04:28]: I found out there was a KC that was being founded. And so I said, this feels like the right place for me to give some time and energy. And so I initially started as the research and assessment co chair for the KC, and then now eventually as the chair.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:42]: What are you all focused on right now in terms of practice sharing and kind of themes or up and coming future forward items for working with commuter students?

Lindsay Mason [00:04:51]: So a few things that we're working on. 1, we have a lot of questions coming in where members are asking what type of physical spaces other universities are providing for their commuter students. So we have a small task force that is focused on gathering information about commuter lounges. We have we're interested in launching a commuter appreciation week in partnership with other national organizations that also support commuter students. We also have a practical toolkit that we are nearly done developing that is helping people come across a lot in the KC is why do some people say commuter and why do some people come across a lot in the KC is why do some people say commuter and why do some people say off campus? So we did this study to find out why are some universities choosing one word over the other to define their students that live in the community. And it was so varied. We initially thought, oh, we maybe can try to propose a shared definition of what a commuter student is and what an off campus student is, but that quickly proved impossible. So rather, what we've developed is a set of questions that university staff can go through on their own to help them define what are our commuter students, who are our off campus students, and particularly thinking about the common intersecting identity with commuter or off campus students. So being a caregiver, having a job, how far are they commuting, if they're living with family, those types of things.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:25]: I would imagine that was a really tricky space to get to because oftentimes, even at our traditional 4 year institutions, by the time students hit 3rd 4th year, they're living off campus, but maybe wouldn't consider themselves in that off campus or commuter student space. Whereas if they're a student that's from that community, maybe they would. I totally see where that rubber meeting road became difficult for you all. So beyond the definitions then, let's talk a little bit about that support mechanism piece that you started to talk about. You mentioned lounges, you mentioned appreciation weeks. What else is going on in the off campus and commuter student land that student affairs professionals should know about, especially for those who don't focus specifically on this population?

Lindsay Mason [00:07:07]: I think as a nation, across many communities, we are seeing a housing crisis. And I think as housing costs only continue to rise, we are already seeing it, but we will only continue to see it to be a bigger retention issue. There are already many students that are choosing where they go to college based on what the cost of living is there. And I think about how in my type of work, I'm working within systems, specifically off campus housing markets, where I am both reliant on that market existing, but the way that I accomplish my work and the way that maybe property managers accomplish their work sometimes aligns and sometimes does not. And it is hard to be reliant on an industry that I do not always align with. So I do a lot of basic needs work at my university, specifically around housing. I also do transportation work because I happen to supervise the university safe ride program, which is not common for people that do my type of work. That's a unique setup.

Lindsay Mason [00:08:09]: I support folks on campus who do food security work, and sometimes I'll describe it as we as a country have a surplus of food. We just don't do a good job in making sure that it doesn't go wasted. We do not have a surplus of housing, and so we are trying to work within this basic needs that does not have a surplus that is easily fixed. On top of housing being, it's an expensive thing to build and live in. There's a lot of legalities behind housing. So when I think about off campus and commuter students, I think about how are they managing even now to afford rent, and when will we really start to see the negative impacts of a significant portion of our students choosing not to come to a certain area of the country because of housing? Well, let me back up. Nope. Let me back up.

Lindsay Mason [00:08:57]: Are we able to accurately capture how many students will choose not to come to our institutions because of housing costs? I think that's an incredibly difficult statistic to measure, but I think it is impacting who chooses to matriculate and then and our retention rates.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:17]: I absolutely agree with you on that. And we also have a crisis of housing among students who are struggling with temporary housing processes. Right? So when I was working with fundamental needs, specifically at a r one d one on the West Coast, one of the things that we learned was that most students who are unhoused or struggling with permanent housing aren't identifying themselves to the institution, probably because we've never given them a mechanism to do so. And then also are more likely not to self identify as unhoused because they're couch surfing with their friends. They might spend a couple of nights with friend a and a couple of nights with friend b and continually move. And so they have some housing security, but it's not full housing security. And those types of things are hard for institutions to measure, hard to communicate with students because we can't yet, find out who those students are. And then even more difficult to keep going down the road of, well, okay, now we've found you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:11]: How do we help you now? Because as you mentioned, rent costs are very, very high, especially in smaller markets where a lot of our traditional 4 years are and rent costs are exponentially high when we have urban campuses. So it's quite a challenge. I know that part of your work is town gown related. And in the community you're in, there's, I think, a substantially sized community around the institution, which is a nice benefit to a degree, but it's not quite a major metro. So thinking about that, how do you negotiate, as you mentioned, the values of what you need to do to keep your students' food and housing secure with the realities of a capitalist housing market?

Lindsay Mason [00:10:49]: So I would say all of my work that I do is town gown in some capacity. There isn't anything I do that isn't related to how our students are experiencing our community, what they're contributing to the community, how they're being impacted by the community they live in. So sometimes at the end of the year, we all have our annual evaluations and we are asked, can you give us a list of 5 to 10 colleagues that you would want to complete a peer evaluation for you? And when I think about my peers, I think just as quickly about my city colleagues as I do about my institution's colleagues. In fact, I share a position with the city. I co supervise with my city. I have someone that's 50% in my office and 50% in the city of Fort Collins neighborhood services. So I'm working with folks in the city daily. So when I think about folk that I I'm also working with property managers daily.

Lindsay Mason [00:11:41]: And in fact, my office created and hired a position called a property manager liaison because we wanted someone in our office who used to work for a apartment complex or property manager. I've never been a property manager. I don't know what it's like to live that life, but I work with them every day and I'm so reliant on their industry. I wanted to have a better insight of how they do their work. So your question, what am I considering as I'm trying to work with folks, I think about what are their values, what are their bottom lines, what are their culture, what's their department's culture in a variety of ways? So, again, I I work with neighborhood services a lot in the city, and I think about neighborhood services reporting line. Who do they report up to? And what's it like for them to speak to city council, which is different than what maybe what it's like for me as a director to speak to my vice president or president and eventually up to board of governors. Or I work with police a lot because I do a lot of safety related things off campus related to drunk driving and parties and things like that. And that police culture is very different than student affairs culture.

Lindsay Mason [00:12:46]: When I think about working with property managers, they are working both with a national management company, but they also probably have a separate owner. Not always, but likely 2 different entities that they're that they have to report to. So this isn't a specific answer, but that's something I think a lot about in my work. I can't just consider how will whatever I wanna do be received at my institution. I'm thinking about a variety of partners and what it will be like for them because I can't do my work without those partners. I do nothing alone. Right? Everything is with my partners, whether they're in city offices or local properties around us.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:21]: I wanna go back to the position that you identified as being half time with the city and half time with the university. That is a really unique model that I don't think we see a lot in higher education, and it sounds like a fantastic way to solve some of the challenges of the 2, big major entities collaborating. Can you talk to us about how that came to life for your institution and what that person's function is and some of the pros and cons of it? And I guess I could be a better descriptor of it that, yes,

Lindsay Mason [00:13:47]: technically, they spend half their physical time with the city, half their physical time with the university, but everything they're doing is university city work or town gown work. Everything is connected. So that position has existed since 2000. At the time, we were seeing a huge amount of disruptions in our local neighborhoods around campus, particularly large parties and riot. And so a lot of town gown efforts came out at that time, and one of them was this shared position. It now is so well established that I sign an inter gov I sign an intergovernmental agreement with the city only once every decade because we commit to it a decade at a time. So it's well established and well respected. So logistically, the position is housed at CSU.

Lindsay Mason [00:14:35]: We had to pick one entity for, like, HR purposes. You know, where does the paycheck come from? All those things. And so we decided that it was gonna be based at the institution, but we get half of the salary from the city and half of the programmatic dollars from the city. There are complications that come with working within 2 entities but only truly being employed by 1 entity on paper, so at the city they have to be classified as a contractor. So they get access to a lot, but there are a couple of city systems that are difficult for them to access. Sometimes the technology is a little difficult because both of us have protected systems to log into, and again, being a city contractor, they don't get all the same access. But they have 2 email addresses, and that's purposeful because depending if the community liaison, that's the title of the position, I can't remember if I said that, depending if the community liaison is talking to a student resident or what we call a long term resident. That's the best way I distinguish between someone who's a CSU student and someone who's not a CSU student.

Lindsay Mason [00:15:39]: But, of course, we don't like to identify people by what they're not. Sometimes they'll give them their city email and sometimes their CSU email because we want to be clear that this person isn't here just to represent 1 population. They're here for everybody that lives in our community, regardless of their affiliation with CSU or not. Their work is really focused in the neighborhoods that have high a high mixture of long term residents and student residents. Their position does some people say like boots on the ground type work. So if there's a long term resident and a student resident that live next door and they're having conflict because of noise or parking issues or something like that. The community liaison is trained in mediation to go out and have a direct conversation with those neighbors, but they are also leading high level partnerships between the university and the city that also do neighborhood type work. So, for example, every week, we have a meeting that involves myself and our student resolution center at CSU.

Lindsay Mason [00:16:34]: Our student resolution center houses our conflict resolution services and our student conduct services. And then we also have neighborhood services in Fort Collins Police Services. We are meeting regularly and that is led by our community liaison because they're living in both worlds. They're at different staff meetings. They get the best understanding of what types of resources these different departments have. So the community liaison is leading us through what new partnerships can we build or what different resources can we bring to proactively and reactively support our neighborhoods around campus. The position, I agree, is incredibly valuable. I think excellent strategy for town gown relations, and it takes maintenance.

Lindsay Mason [00:17:17]: It takes effort from, particularly from both myself and the manager of neighborhood services to make sure that we're in alignment and that we trust each other and that we both accept responsibility for what's happening in the neighborhoods around campus, that both of us are invested in that work. And so over the years, the manager at neighborhood services and the director of off campus life, we have changed. And it's important that we are telling the story of the importance of this position, the history of this position, and why the position needs to continue.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:49]: How do you all make yourselves known to the long term residents of the community? I feel like, you know, being kind of housed at the institution, communicating with our students is always its own challenge, but a much easier prospect at the end of the day than trying to make yourselves known and your services known to members of the community that have probably lived there longer than anyone's been in their roles.

Lindsay Mason [00:18:10]: Yeah. So we have several programs that take place out in the community. Some of which are opt in by the long term residents, so they would need to know what's happening, but some of it is because we're literally walking up to their door. So, for example, the first Wednesday of classes, we will host our annual community welcome event where we get a couple 100 volunteers. The volunteers are a mix of city staff, CSU staff, CSU students, and some long term residents. And we go in teams door to door in the neighborhoods around campus to either welcome them to the neighborhood or welcome them to the academic year. We talk about changes upcoming for this year that might impact the local neighborhoods. But then also remind them about the art of neighboring, the importance of being a good neighbor.

Lindsay Mason [00:18:53]: So we have some programs like that where we are going to them no matter what. They will see us. Then we have some other long standing programs where we send out mailings, And then we also have some long standing programs where neighbors can opt in. For example, we do a fall cleanup program where a couple thousand students will go out and rake leaves for mostly elderly or disabled residents to help them be able to age in their home. When we advertise those types of opportunities that are opt in, we are really using more city communication than we are university communication. So neighborhood services has their newsletter. They use Next store. We run stories in our local newspaper.

Lindsay Mason [00:19:31]: So as an institution, I don't think I could effectively do that without my partnerships in the city. And then our community liaison is also going out to many city events and introducing themselves, talking to neighbors at events where the university would not normally be present. And so, I mean, some of our neighbors, sometimes when they have questions or tension or something, sometimes they call our office or call neighborhood services and they know. They're like, I need to talk to the community liaison. I know that's a resource you have, and they name it. And that for me is, well, I don't love that they're experiencing whatever tension it is. I'm like, oh, I'm glad you know though that we do care, and we have someone dedicated to working through that with you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:06]: Let's shift gears a little bit because one of the things that I think you've been able to do in your position is really grow from that program temporary coordinator into the person leading the office, And then ultimately with the director title and where you're organizationally situated, you're a true mid level manager in student affairs. What do you see as shifting right now for mid level managers in terms of your responsibilities or day to day worlds that may have been a little different than when you entered the field? And where do you see it going in the next couple of years?

Lindsay Mason [00:20:38]: I'll share some thoughts I'm having, but I know that my perspective is, of course, heavily influenced by being a director of a small unit. There are 7 career staff in my team, which there could be some departments that are, like, I'm a department of 2. You seem much bigger. But in comparison to, like, a housing department or a rec center or a health network. Right? Those are quite large. So I know being a mid level manager in a smaller department. In addition, I'm also a mid level manager at a large university. One change I see coming, which I think is great, is the amount of data or reporting out that we are required to do.

Lindsay Mason [00:21:17]: I think it is a positive trend for us as a profession that we are being asked to be more clear about the data that we are using to make decisions. It is difficult on departments that do not have an assessment assigned person. We're not big enough or have the resources to have someone that does, you know, assessment or evaluation or a program review as their dedicated job. So that's difficult. Okay. I have one that maybe more people will relate to. When I finished my master's in 2013, it was standard that in order to get an entry level student affairs role, you had to have a master's in student affairs. It is not like that anymore.

Lindsay Mason [00:21:56]: As a profession, particularly because of the hiring and job turnover that happened during COVID, We are seeing particularly because of the job turnover that happened during COVID, but also because our pay and our profession has not kept pace in decades with where we should be paid. We are seeing a bigger trend of entry level roles being hired with folks that do not have a student affairs background. Now on the one hand, I love that. I love that I have someone in my office that comes out of property management and not from student affairs or someone that is coming more from a psychology or social work background and not out of student affairs. I think all that is great. It also, as a mid level manager, while supervising entry level employees is already a pull on mid level managers, training more entry level employees about our profession on the job is an even bigger pull. And, and that can be difficult. It can be more time consuming.

Lindsay Mason [00:22:53]: Again, these people with other types of backgrounds, they bring a lot of value to our work, and I'm excited to have folks that aren't in student affairs, But I'm having to relearn how I onboard employees to include things like student development theory and things like that that traditionally they would have had training in. So that's maybe a trend that I've seen, and I think will only continue.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:14]: That's a great segue into our theme questions for this season. On the past, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think that we need to let go of?

Lindsay Mason [00:23:25]: I like that student affairs professionals have a history of removing barriers for students of all identities to be able to gain access to higher ed. I felt that as a student, and I feel it in my working life that that's an important piece of what I do. But as a student affairs professional from a working class background, the definitions of professionalism I must meet feel outdated at best to me. I struggle with how I was encouraged to be more authentic as a student. But then once I represented the university, I had to fall in line with white middle class professionalism. So I want us not that there's no movement, but I wish more folks challenged how we define professionalism in our profession that is trying to work towards social justice.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:20]: That's a beautifully put statement. I agree with you. And I've seen some really great presentations at NASPA in the last couple of years around dress codes in particular and who they serve and who they don't and whose standard are we really enforcing. So that's a really good one to hang on to. And I see this as a person who shows up every day with very visible facial piercings, and I'm not taking them out for anybody. So

Lindsay Mason [00:24:42]: As you shouldn't.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:43]: I'll be a great example of someone who can lead at the senior levels in student affairs, but also show up with visible tattoos and face piercings. I'm gonna keep doing it. Number 2, we're moving towards the present. What's happening in the field right now that's going well for us?

Lindsay Mason [00:24:57]: I mentioned it earlier, our increasing usage of data. We need to be more clear about how we're using data to make our decisions. I feel our profession wanes in and out of how other people at our institutions and then certainly outside of higher education value the work that we do. Sometimes it is very evident, and sometimes it isn't. And how are we sharing data to tell our stories and to show that our work is theory and data driven? It's not random.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:24]: I think this is an area where AI is going to help us a lot if we can get there. But a lot of the tools that we need for assessment cost money, and a lot of us don't have the depth of training we need from a statistics perspective or a data science perspective. And so it's this tension of continually being a person of all trades in our profession. And then knowing that data driven information helps us get positions, helps us retain budget, helps us grow our programs, helps us improve the student experience, all of those things. But most of us took one class in our master's programs if we did go for the master's and not all of us did. So that's gonna be an interesting trend to continue to track. And let's move towards the future, which is in an ideal world, what does the field need to do to thrive towards the future?

Lindsay Mason [00:26:11]: When I was reflecting on this, admittedly, I don't think my answer is from an ideal world. I was thinking more of just what do I think our profession needs? My answer certainly is heavily influenced by the fact that I do a lot of basic needs work. We need to study social work theories. I wish social work was more integrated into student affairs programs. I mean, even minimally as an elective to better inform how our students need to navigate both within our systems, but also navigating life outside of higher ed. So I think as a profession, we would benefit from more partnerships and more studying of social work theories.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:47]: And I'll give a shout out to student affairs organization called HECMA. It's the Higher Education Case Managers Association. They have both clinical and nonclinical tracks for case managers. These are people working in student care, both within counseling centers and teams of students offices, things like that. And they've started on that probably within the last 15 years or so. I would love to see that expand. That's a great perspective. Lindsay, anything else that you wanted to share on off campus and commuter students or the past, present, and future of student affairs?

Lindsay Mason [00:27:16]: I appreciate the opportunity to be on this podcast to to talk about working with commuter or off campus students and specifically more broadly doing town gown work. I think it is a fairly niche area of student affairs, although town gown work exists across multiple departments at a university and a city. So while it might be niche in student affairs, the work is incredibly fulfilling, and I'm learning a lot of skills that can be applicable in a variety of areas. So I feel like I'm getting a lot of great professional development because I do town gown work. I'm challenged in a different way working across multiple organizations outside of my institution. And while I landed in it a little randomly because I was in the right place at the right time, I'm so thankful that I'm here. And I would want others to know I think this town gown type work is meaningful. It matters.

Lindsay Mason [00:28:08]: It's challenging in a good way. And even if folks right now are not in a role that feels town gown, there is likely an opportunity for it to be so. So I think there's some cool expansion when a university and city or county or local areas think about working together. We do a lot of opportunities to do some cool

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:24]: things. It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:30]: Thanks so much, Joe. Glad to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a lot of things happening in NASPA this week. One of the dates to keep in mind as we're looking toward the future is the NASPA annual conference. It might seem like it's a long way away. However, it's not as far out as you think, and it is a perfect time for you to be thinking about making your plans, registering for the conference, and preparing for an amazing conference in New Orleans on March 15th through 19th. The focus areas of the conference this year are on well-being and healthy excellence in student affairs, changing the student affairs profession, and sustaining and celebrating the profession. There are so many opportunities to be able to take part in the conference, to learn, to grow, to be able to take all of that learning back to your own campuses. And if you've never attended a conference before or if this is your 10th or more conference, it is always a homecoming to go back to the conference and be able to reconnect with all of your professional colleagues.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:29]: It's the fall, and that means it's a perfect time to be able to do some, fall cleaning. And some of that fall cleaning means going into your NASPA profile to make sure that you are getting what you want. You can do that by going to the NASPA website atnaspa.org, clicking on my NASPA and logging in. When you log in, go to edit my profile and check all of the different links that are there. Make sure that your name and institution and all of the information and all of the information that's there is accurate. But then you want to go a little bit deeper and look at your engagement and be able to find out what are you actually signed up for. By clicking on my NASPA engagement, you have an opportunity to be able to sign up for different knowledge communities, journals, divisions, and groups, and be able to stay in the know of what is happening within NASPA. I highly encourage you to do this.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:24]: It doesn't take a lot of time. And after you add different things into your engagement portal, make sure to save it so that you will get informed about everything that you are most passionate about. Finally, today, I'm going to just throw out another professional development opportunity. I already talked about the annual conference, but I wanted to also talk about the 2025 NASPA Institute For New AVPs. The NASPA Institute For New AVPs is a foundational 3 day learning and networking experience designed to support and develop AVPs in their unique and challenging roles on campus. The institute is appropriate for AVPs and other senior level number twos who report to the highest ranking student affairs officer and who have been serving in their first AVP or number 2 position for no longer than 2 years. December 11th is the early registration deadline for this amazing professional development opportunity, which will be happening January 23rd through 25th in Columbus, Ohio. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:22]: So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:43]: Chris, thank you so much for another edition of NASPA World. Always great to learn what's going on in and around NASPA. Lindsay, we have our lightning round ready for you. Seven questions, 90 seconds. You ready to go?

Lindsay Mason [00:32:55]: Okay. I'm ready.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:56]: All right. Number 1, If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Lindsay Mason [00:33:01]: What's coming to mind for me is some type of country song. Not a lot of people in student affairs listen to country. There's a lot of assumptions about me because I listen to country, but I like country music, and I'm okay with that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:11]: Number 2. When you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Lindsay Mason [00:33:15]: Oh, a dozer operator. My dad's a heavy equipment operator. I really wanted to drive tractors. And even to this day, I my dad's a professional truck driver. I also one day, I wanna get my CDL license. I love thing big things with engines. I owned a school bus for a year, and I was like, let me go drive this school bus. And I offered it to other people to drive it, and they're like, I would never do that.

Lindsay Mason [00:33:34]: And I was like, how do you not wanna do this? So I wanted to drive big pieces of equipment.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:38]: My nephew would totally wanna spend all the time with you. He is currently obsessed with all things dozer related, Bob the Builder, all of it.

Lindsay Mason [00:33:45]: Love it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:46]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Lindsay Mason [00:33:49]: I have several women in particular in my life that have been excellent mentors for me. I think about women that influenced me heavily when I was an undergrad, people that were strong influences on me when I was in my masters, and then now as a professional. I'm gonna mention 3. The 3 women who worked full time in off campus life when I first started, Jeannie Ortega, Emily Seams, and Nancy Rhodes. I still work with Nancy. She and I are still together in our office. And I recently went to a lunch with all the career staff in my office except Nancy because she was visiting her mom in Florida. And I actually realized in that moment, I did not like being without my 3 original women because they placed such a heavy influence in my life.

Lindsay Mason [00:34:27]: So Jeanne Ortega, Emily Seams, Nancy Rhodes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:29]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Lindsay Mason [00:34:32]: Maybe a little nontraditional. I recently well, the last couple of years, I've been really digging Cal Newport and his work around deep meaningful work, so much so that I built a workshop that is offered through my university's talent development. And I like his techniques around developing my capacity to do focused, deep, meaningful work.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:52]: Number 5, the best TV show you've binged lately.

Lindsay Mason [00:34:55]: My new favorite comfort show is Abbott Elementary. I see that being one that I'm gonna turn back to a lot, similar to how I turn back to The Office or Parks and Rec. So Abbott Elementary.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:05]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Lindsay Mason [00:35:09]: Because I'm a 1st gen student, I carry a lot of financial responsibility in my family. And so I listen to financial podcasts. 2 of them that I listen to are choose FI and all the hacks.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:18]: Alright. And finally, number 7. Any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Lindsay Mason [00:35:23]: The people that I did not mention earlier, folks that were really influential in my career as an undergrad include Dilsey Perez and Jenny Ruiz. When I was a grad student, I had a lot of great mentorship from Bobby Kuntzmann and Pamela Norris. I also think one of the best decisions I ever made in my life is marrying my husband, Jason Martin. He's an excellent partner.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:41]: Lindsay, it's been a pleasure to get to know you better today, to learn about your expertise and great work with the community that you're living in and working with. I'm sure there are folks that would like to get connected with you either for your area of specialty or also just getting involved with the knowledge community that you're co leading. If anyone would like connect with you after the show, how can they find you?

Lindsay Mason [00:35:59]: I think the best way would be to email my Colorado State email address. It's [email protected]. And it's lindsay with an a.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:09]: Lindsay, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Lindsay Mason [00:36:11]: Thanks, Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:17]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at [email protected], or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr.Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

Understanding the Unique Needs of Adult Learners

In this episode of SA Voices From the Field, Dr. Jill Creighton delve into the intricacies of supporting adult learners with Lindsay Taylor, a strategic program manager and NASPA leader. Lindsay shares her extensive experience in aiding adult learners through various academic and co-curricular initiatives, particularly her work with the National Society of Leadership and Success (NSLS) and NASPA's Adult Learners and Students with Children Knowledge Community.

Transition to Online Learning During the Pandemic

Lindsay describes the transformation her organization experienced moving from a hybrid model to a fully online one. Initiating this shift just before the pandemic, her team had to quickly adapt to the exclusively online format, relying on trial and error to determine the best technological solutions. Initially experimenting with Google discussions, they ultimately settled on the GroupMe app based on positive student feedback and participation rates. This application allowed for ease of use, catering to those less tech-savvy by enabling text message integration. This adaptability and student-centric approach played a significant role in maintaining engagement and continuing student success during challenging times.

Strategies for Engaging and Supporting Adult Learners

Recognizing that adult learners often juggle multiple responsibilities, Lindsay highlights several strategies her team implements:

• Accessible Orientation Materials:
  • Crafting easily accessible orientation videos.
  • Providing clear guidelines on software usage.
  • Offering support documents and checklists to ease the transition into virtual learning environments.
• Inclusive Support Systems:
  • Including parents in the educational process fosters a family homework dynamic.
  • Encouraging family involvement can positively impact degree completion and commencement rates among adult learners.
• Community Creation:
  • Developing online hubs for students to connect and share resources.
  • Encouraging direct student input through annual engagement surveys to tailor activities and support structures that best meet their needs.

Overlaps with First-Generation Students

Many strategies developed for adult learners also benefit first-generation students. By creating a readily accessible support system, both groups receive the necessary guidance and resources without feeling alienated. This approach aligns with diversity, equity, and inclusion values, ensuring that all students feel supported and engaged regardless of their background or current situation.

Leveraging Technology for a Sense of Belonging

Lindsay discusses the importance of creating virtual communities where students can network and establish personal connections despite physical distances. The use of platforms like GroupMe for success networking meetings, where students set smart goals and hold each other accountable, exemplifies leveraging technology to foster a sense of belonging. These communities become invaluable for students who might otherwise feel isolated due to their busy schedules or geographical constraints.

Challenges and Solutions in Success Networking Meetings

A significant hurdle in leadership programs is the success networking meeting. Students must engage in group collaboration, which proves challenging for those juggling multiple responsibilities. By creating flexible, accessible options through technology, Lindsay and her team effectively support students who might fear overcommitment. This tailored approach ensures students can complete their responsibilities without foregoing critical networking opportunities.

Future Directions in Student Affairs

Looking forward, Lindsay advocates for continuous assessment and innovative practices in student affairs. Emphasizing technology and community-building, she underlines the importance of evolving to meet students' changing needs. Lindsay also encourages involving students in decision-making processes, ensuring their voices directly influence the programs designed to support their success.

In this episode, Lindsay's insights into supporting adult learners and students with children resonate deeply. The innovative strategies her team employs to create accessible and engaging learning environments offer valuable lessons for educational institutions striving to adapt and support their students. As we move forward, the key to success lies in continuing to listen, adapt, and innovate being driven by the diverse needs of our student populations.

You are encouraged to connect with Lindsay Taylor on LinkedIn for further insights and participation in upcoming meetings focused on collaboration within the NASPA Knowledge Community. The future of student affairs undoubtedly involves a blend of technology, empathy, and proactive engagement strategies, paving the way for inclusive and successful educational experiences for all.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. Be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on essay voices, we welcome Lindsay Taylor, sheher. Lindsay is the strategic program manager for her university's chapter of the National Society of Leadership and Success or N SLS. She also serves on the leadership committee for NASPA's Adult Learners and Students with Children Knowledge Community. The N SLS chapter she manages serves more than 2,000 students in the southeast region.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:49]: Lindsay holds an MBA from Quinnipiac University and is currently pursuing her certified student affairs educator certification through the Higher Education Consortium. Using her business expertise, Lindsay has coached more than 670 students, helping them develop their leadership acumen. She continues to motivate and mentor students and student chapter leaders and has established the chapter as a growing financially self sustaining operation. Lindsay attribute NSLS chapter success to ensuring students are heard and creating innovative solutions current and future practice of student affairs around adult learners and non traditional learners. I think that's definitely a fantastic area for us to continue to explore. You're also one of our knowledge community co chairs, and you're working, quite a lot to support, students with children. So a lot to dig into today. But we always love to start our episodes by asking, what is your current role and how did you get to your current seat?

Lindsay Taylor [00:01:49]: I have multiple roles that I hold. So I work in admissions. I am a chapter adviser for one of the honor societies for my university, and we cover the entire southeast region from Maryland and DC all the way down to Florida and over to Tennessee and Kentucky. I am also on their co curricular board. And then, as you mentioned, I'm one of the co chairs for the adult learners and students with children knowledge community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:12]: So you are wearing a ton of hats right now.

Lindsay Taylor [00:02:14]: Yes. I enjoyed though. I also get to be a programming chair for one of our business resource groups. So I really enjoyed diving into that, and I'm just the person that keeps asking questions, and then I get involved into things.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:27]: I think that is a very traditional NASPA story that we're all just continually saying yes, and then all of a sudden we find ourselves in all of these big things. Well, can you talk to us a little bit about the knowledge community first? I think it's a knowledge community that's fairly new in the NASPA space compared to maybe some of the ones that have been there for the last 20, 30 years. But I think you're serving an incredibly important population. All of our students are important. This particular population, I think, is growing.

Lindsay Taylor [00:02:52]: Definitely. I joined this knowledge community during one of the pandemic NASPA conferences that was online, and I was thrilled by the stuff that was happening. And they were talking about how in Oregon, there was laws being passed and Illinois to collect demographic data on our adult learners so that the schools can better serve them. In Oregon, the one university that was talking about it, they have a whole day to celebrate their adult learners, and I thought that was fantastic. So the knowledge community really focuses on how we can support the adult learners in that space, but also acknowledging that there's people that have pen they're taking care of. And often these learners are people that they're working at least one job, maybe more, while trying to go to school and care for their family. So it's a balancing act for them to manage their time and still be successful in their class.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:40]: How are we defining adult learners in the knowledge community space? I think it's a fun tension because all of our students are adults once they come to the collegiate space. So it's a unique utilization of the term.

Lindsay Taylor [00:03:51]: So we actually had a conversation about this at our last strategy meeting, and we kind of have it to how the student is identifying themselves. Because it came up about even, like, people that are caring for other people outside of children, especially ever since the pandemic. Like, a lot of people got sick, so they may be caring for parents now. And it's how the student is identifying themselves. If they identify themselves as someone that's an adult learner versus that traditional, you've graduated high school, now you're moving on into college, they might have started their academic journey a little bit later.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:23]: And we are also seeing an increase in students with children balancing those priorities of earning their degrees while also raising their families. I was recently at a university in North Central Minnesota. And one of the things that I loved is they've converted one of their student apartment buildings into single parent housing, which I thought was really unique. I had not seen that done at many other institutions. Seeing family housing in a lot of places, but this was really specific to support students who did not have another adult partner helping them raise that family. So I thought that was a great trend. What other types of trends are you seeing that are supporting our students with children?

Lindsay Taylor [00:04:58]: I'm seeing a lot more initiatives to allow them to feel like they're being seen because oftentimes that population of students, they feel like they're the forgotten ones. They may be going to the community colleges a lot when they start off or going right into the online, and they often feel disconnected from the university because they don't have that traditional time to go join student clubs and be in person because they're often at their job or even having take their kids somewhere. And then so I think because the pandemic forces of a whole industry to kind of adapt and change. A lot more schools are offering more online environments, and it gives that flexibility back to the student so that they can still feel like they can balance everything and be pursuing their degree.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:41]: That balance component, I think, applies to all sorts of learners who are working full time jobs or maybe multiple jobs and trying to earn their degrees. You mentioned connection as a place where universities are still trying to figure out how to engage our students that are online learners or maybe students that are only coming to campus for their classes. Maybe they don't want to join a club or org, or maybe they do, but they simply do not have capacity. So what are some of the practices we're seeing to build those connections given that our traditional methods are probably not going to work?

Lindsay Taylor [00:06:12]: I think having more of an online community home. So, like, the honor society that we run, we have over 2,000 students in our chapter, and majority of them are adult learners. We do an engagement survey every year, and we say, okay. What is working for you and what is not working for you? Because we want you who knows the student better than they know themselves? So we wanna hear from them on what can we do as a chapter to better serve you through your leadership program so that you're able to finish that step. Because the one step that just always holds a lot of students is what's called a success networking team meeting, which is the one step that they can't do solo. It's the one step where they have to be in a group and collaborating with people and talking with other people. And when you have people that are 3rd shift and other different, like, jobs, they have 2 of them that they have to balance. They're like, I don't have time, and they just back away.

Lindsay Taylor [00:07:04]: And so I think by having more of those trends of asking the students what they need, there's platforms out there, like, Unified that I know other schools have integrated into their platform that brings what's going on to the university all to their student portal so that these students can see what's going on, see what's trending at their university, see what's out there for them, and it making it more accessible.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:26]: You mentioned a success networking meeting. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Lindsay Taylor [00:07:30]: Yeah. It's an opportunity for the students to establish a smart goal. So it requires a my half doing a lot of, like, success coaching and say, okay. Well, that's a great goal, but how do we take that from a goal to a smart goal? When do you want to achieve this? What are the steps you're gonna take to reach this goal? And really kind of guiding the students through that when they're submitting their reports, but it's an opportunity for them to connect in with other individuals in the honor society and have that accountability aspect to that because their other fellow members are encouraging them. And it's always great to see that because one of the things that we've done for our chapters will have the on live events, but then we also put everybody into a group me. So we're utilizing technology to bring it to our adult learners and those that have children and people that are caring for others so that they're able to still do their success networking team meetings in that group setting, but it's just at their fingertips.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:23]: And you're doing that in an online context, which I think is quite innovative. A lot of institutions would love to be pushing that direction. So how did you get your institution to move from this idea that we needed to have this space? It was probably in person. Pandemic happened. That pushed a lot of us online. But what made it stick and create infrastructure in the online space?

Lindsay Taylor [00:08:43]: So our chapter actually formed the fall of 2019. So we were a hybrid chapter where we had our main location in Tennessee, and then we also are doing more hybrid style for those in North Carolina. During the pandemic, we expanded out to where we're at now where we covered the entire southeast region. So we were doing that while having to adapt to going strictly online, and we went through a lot of, like, different iterations because we were like, okay. What if we use the Google discussions? Because you can create a whole discussion board in Google to see, like, how would this work for the students to be able to navigate this. But when we saw that some people were having trouble technology wise, like, not everybody's gonna be technologically savvy, and so we then moved it to GroupMe to try that for the students. And it was kind of a trial and error of, okay, what is gonna work for this chapter? And as the chapter advisor and it also gives a lot of flexibility in running chapters. They're like, you have these set guidelines that you have to follow.

Lindsay Taylor [00:09:40]: But as far as if you wanna modify certain things for your chapter to best work for it, you can. And I appreciate that because that's what's allowed for us to really, can. And I appreciate that because that's what's allowed for us to really optimize the technology and find something that was gonna be simpler. Something that people can literally just use their phones because with GroupMe, it'll send it as a text message to them, or they can be in the GroupMe app. And so it made it something that they're familiar with, and then that's kind of what allowed for a lot more people. And I explained to them, like, well, all you have to do is this. They're like, it's that easy? Yes. We've literally simplified it to make it as easy for you as possible.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:14]: Let's talk about the tech a minute because I think the tech is always pushing the field forward into the future. I think a lot of institutions are currently making the rounds through Discord and Slack and GroupMe and whatever other platform we're using to create groups with students. I know this was Facebook Groups back in the day, and now we've kind of merged into other spaces. How did your team decide that GroupMe was going to be the way to meet students where they're at?

Lindsay Taylor [00:10:41]: So we started integrating that around 2021 or 2022, and we had, like, our first kind of cohort of students. And then through the engagement survey, we said, okay. Did you guys like this? Which one are you using more? Did you, like, attend the live events, or did you find the group me was easy to use? And then based on that's the group of students' feedback, we determined that the group meet what's gonna be that best option for everybody because of the positive feedback that we got back from the students. So that's why we continue to use that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:13]: What other strategies are you using that you're finding quite effective in engaging your adult learners?

Lindsay Taylor [00:11:18]: I would say bringing it to their forefront of where they can find the information. The one thing I found is, like, they just don't have time to go digging through stuff. They need it right front and center to them where it's easily accessible. They can find it. So this year, we are actually creating a new member orientation video separate from the orientation that kinda guides them through their leadership programs. So we're like, hey. We're your chapter adviser, and this is your student president. We're gonna kinda guide you through your entire NSLs portal so that as we're having our members join, we can send that out and we've created, like, little syllabus documents to say, here's the software that you should be using.

Lindsay Taylor [00:11:57]: Like, make sure you're using the NSL's mobile app. Make sure you have the GroupMe app, and then listing out everything for them. So that there's no question about what's going on, that everything is like, hey. Here's a document. You can print this off. We created, like, an induction steps checklist for them. So with their s and t's, if they attend the live event but they forget to submit the report, they can put on the paper, oh, I attended it this day. And then as that reminder, it says, and I submitted my report on x y z date.

Lindsay Taylor [00:12:24]: So it gives them that way that if they're, you know, short on time, they can go back to their document and then go, oh, I can add the date for this and then get that submitted.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:33]: I'm hearing a lot of overlap in success for 1st generation students and what you're finding is successful for the adult learning communities that you're serving. How many of your students are also in that 1st gen space?

Lindsay Taylor [00:12:46]: I haven't asked that question, but I think that would be a really good question to ask. A lot of the students, when we ask what their age range is, the majority of our students are usually 40 and over, but that doesn't mean that they wouldn't also be a 1st gen student. I think having worked on the admission side with a lot of the first gen students, I do think there is that challenge when they don't know what to expect and being able to be that guiding force sort of speak that can say, okay. And this is what you can expect and, like, asking, do you under like, stay in all of this? And then making sure that their support system also understands Because sometimes people have questions, what are you doing? And so I think it's having information that's easily accessible to both the 1st gen and the adult learners does help because sometimes they need that reference point to come back to.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:36]: And what we know, right, is that if it's good for a 1st gen student, it's gonna be good for all students. And that's really about communication, dispelling the ivory tower, and the language that we use that could be to insider, to the field, or to the institution, redefining terms, that kind of thing. You just made a really important point, which is also looping in student support systems to help them through the process. When you're working with adult learners, who are you looping in generally from that support systems perspective?

Lindsay Taylor [00:14:05]: So a lot of the students that I work with through admissions, they often have children. So I'll always crack the joke and be like, oh, you're gonna have a homework table now. Like, everybody sits down, they do their homework together. And it makes them laugh, but I think it also, like, creates that visual for them to see themselves being successful in their class, to see themselves being able to demonstrate, like, hey, this is something I'm able to accomplish so that they feel like they're encouraging their kids to also do well in their classes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:32]: And when you're seeing families do this together, what are we seeing on the finishing side, on the commencement and on the degree completion?

Lindsay Taylor [00:14:40]: I love when I get to see the students make it through the program, but because I'm also the chapter adviser for the honor study, I get to see them again when they then become a part of the honor society, and it's often a great experience because they're like, hey. It's you. And it's so great to see that in order for them to be able to join that, they do have to meet GBA requirements. They have to be progressing through their program. So it's kind of like when you're going through a marathon and someone hands you your water and your cookie to keep going. It's like, hey. You made it this far. Look at what you're able to accomplish.

Lindsay Taylor [00:15:13]: And being able to just then watch them set goals of, I wanna finish my degree by x y z date, and then some of them are towards the end of their program. So then their 3rd and final s and t meeting that they submit for their, hey, I'm only 2 classes away from my program now. And being able to see the success that they're having is just so cool to see, like, their whole journey and be a part of that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:35]: We've talked a bit about success. I wanna talk a little bit about the inverse in terms of what are you seeing with your adult learner communities that might be leading to a stop out or a drop out?

Lindsay Taylor [00:15:44]: I think the time management is one of the most common ones that I hear from a lot of students that come back is that life just got busy. And, I'm the first one to say life just happens a lot to adult learners. I mean, they could have cars breaking down or have something happen with their job. They get laid off or anything can happen. And it kinda goes back to, like, Maslow's hierarchy of needs. They have to make sure that their basic needs are being met before they can even think about their education because they often have other people that are relying on them or they have to self rely, and there's no one else that they can depend on to help them through those times. And I think those are some of the biggest causes as to why students, you know, shift out is funding life happening to mom and not really having any other support to kind of help guide them through those tough situations.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:33]: Do you have any advice for other student affairs professionals who are also supporting students in these situations?

Lindsay Taylor [00:16:38]: I have found that sometimes if you can just make them realize that you're there for them, even if you're just listening and showing that empathy. If you're aware of, like, resources that are in, like, the state, being able to direct them to resources that can help. I found that that really helps because it goes beyond them thinking of you as just the man trying to get their money kind of thing to them feeling like you're actually there for them and there to support them and that you genuinely care about their success.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:10]: Are there any other activities happening in the KC right now that you want NASPA listeners to know about?

Lindsay Taylor [00:17:15]: Well, we do have upcoming meetings. We usually do them the 1st Friday of every month. So I would love for more people to come to our meetings. We're always brainstorming how we can collaborate with other Casey's as well because there is a lot of intersectionality between what we do and some of the other knowledge communities as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:33]: And how can folks find you if they'd like to join?

Lindsay Taylor [00:17:35]: They can find me on my LinkedIn. If they search for Lindsay Taylor, they'll be able to find me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:40]: Well, Lindsay, we are in our theme of the past, present, and future of student affairs. And this season, kind of like our season on Becoming, we have a set of questions that we're gonna be asking every guest that are specific to the past, present, and future of student affairs. So I'm gonna start with our past question, which is what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think that we should continue to carry forward?

Lindsay Taylor [00:18:05]: I definitely think assessment and evaluation is something that we really should carry forward. I think it's what's led to different student development theories, but it's also we live in a society where our information is constantly being collected. So why wouldn't it be any different for a university to go beyond just the persistent measure analytics and being able to see, okay, how are our student organizations impacting persistence? Because that's part of why we do our engagement survey is to really analyze what is working and what is not, and being able to get that information from the students can be really valuable.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:41]: And moving into the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for the profession?

Lindsay Taylor [00:18:46]: I think the focus on diversity, equity, and inclusion in higher end, you know, it's becoming challenging. It's something that is going well for, student affairs because it allows for students to benefit from having diverse perspectives. Especially when you look at adult learners, these are individuals that are already in the workforce. They are already being different cultures and being involved in that. I think having that ability to have DNI a part of curriculum actually allows for them to not just learn information, but then be able take that back and implement it into their lives.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:18]: Looking forward into the future, in an ideal world, what does the field need to do to thrive towards our future?

Lindsay Taylor [00:19:24]: I think really taking advantage of technology. Technology can be a great way to connect people, to fill in the gaps for adult learners, 1st gen, whoever the student identifies as. It helps to create communities for students to find their sense of belonging in the institution, but do it on a time frame that really works best for them.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:48]: I wholeheartedly agree with you on the technology piece. I'm currently, teaching as an adjunct in a higher ed master's course, and I'm teaching a tech module. And our first lesson is gonna be all about AI and how higher ed and student affairs can harness AI for good instead of for the scary stuff. I think a lot of times because it's a bit unknown, a lot of us are a little bit like, oh. And it particularly for my colleagues in student conduct and seeing the rise of AI in what we would also call AI or academic integrity, artificial intelligence and academic integrity. It's getting to be a bit of a dicey space. So a lot for us to figure out. Lindsay, is there anything else that you'd like to share about the adult learner community or the National Honor Society that you're advising?

Lindsay Taylor [00:20:31]: If I could say one thing, I wouldn't say don't be afraid of innovation. And it's the one thing that I constantly am doing is how can we make this better? What can we do that improves this? Especially, if you're engaging with your students and getting that feedback from them, bring it back to the students. Our eboard, we analyze that data from the engagement survey, and we have about 13 or so 10 to 13 student leaders on our eboard. And I will bring it back to them and say, okay. This is the feedback that you're getting from your members. What can we do? What are some solutions that you're thinking about? And then I'll even suggest things to them and say, what do you think about this? How does this look? So it allows for them to engage in things that impact others like themselves.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:15]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:21]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a lot going on as we start a brand new year. And, 1st and foremost, the 2025 Excellence Awards are now open. And any of you that wish to be able to apply for one of the Excellence Awards, and I highly encourage you to do just that, to be able to recognize the excellence awards, recognize amazing programs at our different institutions, to be able to showcase the great things that are happening and the people that are making those things happen. There's a ton of different categories and a lot of different areas that will help you to be able to bring forth these amazing services, these amazing things that are contributing to the success of our students. I highly encourage you to check them out. You can apply for an excellence award until October 9, 2024. So submit a nomination today.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:17]: The 6th Annual European Conference for Student Affairs and Services is coming up November 20th through 22nd in Saint Julien's, Malta. This conference provides a platform for student affairs professionals, academics, researchers, and policymakers to discuss innovative programs, practices, models, and trends in student affairs. This year's conference is called Universities of the Future, Empowering Student Affairs Professionals and Fostering Student Flourishing. The regular registration for this conference is going to be closing on September 17th. So you still have a little bit of time left, and I highly encourage you to take a look at it. You can find out more on the NASPA website. Just recently, the Journal of First Generation Stupid Success, volume 4 issue 2 came out. And if you have never checked out this amazing journal, this is another great resource that is provided to you as a member of NASPA, and I highly encourage you to check it out.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:10]: There's a number of great articles in this journal, including the role of family cultural capital to predicting study abroad participation in 1st generation US undergraduates. Also revisiting college access and equity, perspectives of continuing generation college students on their 1st generation peers. These are just 2 of a number of different articles in the journal itself. It's always a fascinating read, and you can find this journal and all of the journals that you have access to as a member of NASPA. On the NASPA website, when you go to the NASPA when you go to naspa.org, just go under publications, and you can find all of the journals there. Finally, I talked about the excellence awards, but there are a number of other awards that are also available to you as a NASPA member. So if you want to honor a rising mid level professional or the president of your institution or a faculty member for what they're doing in the field, consider community. Awards through most of the knowledge communities.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:18]: And all of these different awards are available for individuals to be able to be considered for. And you can nominate someone until October 9th. It is really important that we recognize best practices, people and more to be able to allow for others to learn from their success. Please take a moment to nominate someone for one of these awards and help the profession to be able to recognize the great work of people and programs that are truly working to create opportunities for success for our students and our campuses. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:51]: I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association, and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:21]: Chris, thank you so much for getting us kicked off with NASPA World. It's always great to learn what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Lindsay, we have now reached our lightning round. I have Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Lindsay Taylor [00:26:36]: Maybe, like, ready to rock or something. Like, let's get it going.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:46]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Lindsay Taylor [00:26:50]: I don't remember when I was 5, but I know I spent a lot of time really just wanting to help others. So it's great that I get to kinda do that and then differently than I thought.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:58]: Number 3, Who's your most influential professional mentor?

Lindsay Taylor [00:27:01]: So it's not, like, mine directly, but my husband worked at a community college before. And one of his managers for the fitness center, she said, never be afraid to ask the question because the worst someone can say is no. And I live that every

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:16]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Lindsay Taylor [00:27:18]: Well, right now, I'm studying for the certified student affairs educator. That was definitely the handbook.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:24]: Number 5, the best TV show that you've binged lately?

Lindsay Taylor [00:27:27]: Admittedly, because I am a nineties person, I just finished rewatching all of Girl Meets World because I love Boy Meets World, and I love the Feeny call.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:37]: I've been listening to a ton of Pod Meets World.

Lindsay Taylor [00:27:40]: I love that too. They're great. I love them.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:43]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Lindsay Taylor [00:27:47]: Pod Meets World.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:49]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Lindsay Taylor [00:27:54]: I would like to shout out our co chair president for the adult learners, students, and children, Casey. Kelly, she's doing a fantastic job at it, and she does a great job in managing all of us co chairs, and I'm excited for what the future is gonna bring with her leadership.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:08]: Lindsay, it's been a pleasure to speak with you today. I know I've learned a lot from you, and I know our listeners will as well. I know you mentioned your LinkedIn earlier, but if anyone would like to reach you after the show, what's the best way to find you?

Lindsay Taylor [00:28:19]: Definitely more on my LinkedIn because I'm on there a lot because I also manage our KC LinkedIn, and then I also manage the LinkedIn group for the Honor Society. So I'm always on there.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:30]: And you can find Lindsay's spelling in the show notes. Lindsay is with an a y, so please make sure you connect with her. Lindsay, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Lindsay Taylor [00:28:40]: Thank you for having me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:46]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at [email protected], or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and by doctor Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:23]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

Welcome to another enriching season of the Student Affairs Voices from the Field podcast! As we kick off Season 11, hosts Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Christopher Lewis dive deep into the past, present, and future of student affairs, offering a robust discussion designed to resonate with everyone from seasoned experts to fresh-faced professionals stepping into the field for the first time. This season, aptly timed as we approach fall 2024, promises to unravel layers of insight by unpacking critical themes and interviewing diverse voices within higher education.

A Summer to Reflect

Dr. Jill Creighton opens by setting the stage for what promises to be an impactful season. "This break between season 10 and season 11 has gone by at a blink," notes Dr. Christopher Lewis, encapsulating the whirlwind that is summer in academia. The warm months are a brief yet essential time for rest, reflection, and preparation — particularly relevant for professionals in student affairs who anticipate the fall with a mixture of excitement and, often, trepidation. As campuses spring back to life, it's a period of rejuvenation and readiness, laying the groundwork for the academic adventures to follow.

Election Year Dynamics

As Dr. Creighton mentions, "Anytime we have an election year in the US, it changes the work that we do." The intersection of politics and education makes for a tumultuous landscape. Political outcomes affect campus climates, funding, and overall student wellbeing. It impacts not just the professionals within student affairs but also the students they serve. Dr. Lewis reflects on this, acknowledging the complexity that comes with trying to create a smooth transition for new and returning students amid political unrest.

The 2024 election year, therefore, is expected to bring unique challenges and opportunities. How campuses handle political discourse and maintain inclusivity will be key areas of focus. Whether it involves navigating conversations about policy impacts or ensuring that marginalized voices are heard, student affairs professionals have a pivotal role in steering the educational experience during such crucial times.

Exploring the Past, Present, and Future

For Seasons 11 and 12, the podcast is taking a thematic approach, concentrating on the past, present, and future of student affairs. This strategic focus builds upon the success of previous seasons that examined transitions in the industry. By honing in on this comprehensive tripartite theme, the podcast aims to paint a holistic picture of where student affairs has been, where it stands today, and where it's headed.

Each guest will be challenged to answer three fundamental questions about the past, present, and future of student affairs. These discussions will not only highlight individual professional areas of expertise but will also address broader functional areas and trends. Expect rich dialogue on how historical contexts have shaped current practices and how emerging trends are set to redefine the student affairs landscape.

Diverse Voices Across Career Stages

One of the notable features of this season is its commitment to inclusivity in terms of career stages. As Dr. Creighton points out, the goal is to engage voices from all walks of professional life. Whether you're a retiree offering seasoned wisdom, a first-year professional with fresh insights, a grad student bringing academic rigor, or a mid-level professional balancing day-to-day operations, your story is valuable.

Listeners are encouraged to contribute by recommending others or volunteering themselves to be part of this dynamic discourse. The podcast team is eager to feature a mosaic of perspectives, illustrating the diverse tapestry of experiences that comprise student affairs today.

As we embark on this new season, the *Student Affairs Voices from the Field* podcast stands as a beacon for thoughtful conversation and professional development. From examining the impact of political climates on campuses to exploring the evolution of student affairs, this season sets the stage for an exciting journey through the myriad aspects of higher education. We invite you to listen, engage, and reflect as we unravel the past, present, and future of student affairs together.

For those interested in contributing to the season, send your recommendations to [email protected]. Whether you're a novice or a veteran in the field, your voice matters and can profoundly impact the broader student affairs community.

Catch the latest episodes on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen, and don't forget to leave a review to help others discover this invaluable resource. Here's to another season of learning and growing together!

TRANSCRIPTION

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. Be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Chris, we've hit fall 2024.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:29]: It's amazing. This break between season 10 and season 11 has gone by at a blink, and it has been a really quick summer. I'm glad that we're hitting the fall and we're really getting ready, not only for a new season, but a new fall with new students and just really excited about it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:48]: I'm starting to see move in pictures for our profession. We're all headed for our next adventure around the academic calendar. And I think student affairs as a profession might be in for a little bit of a ride this fall. I think anytime we have an election year in the US, it changes the work that we do. So I'm definitely thinking about all of our colleagues out there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:15]: Definitely hear you in that regard. I feel for the people that are not only parents that are moving their kids in for the first time or second time or third time, but for all of us as professionals that are working to make that smooth and make it a seamless transition for all of our students. But you're right. It can definitely be a very tumultuous few months as we go through this election and whatever the outcome is going to be and how that politically is going to impact how our campuses run, how it impacts our students, and more.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:48]: With all of those impacts, as we thought about what we wanted to look at for what is now season 11, if you can believe it, of essay voices from the field. We really began reflecting on how our last seasons of 9 and 10 on transitions. It felt pretty successful for us in looking at a whole season arc on one theme. Gave us a way to focus in on what was going on. And so we're gonna try it again for seasons 11 and 12. We're gonna be looking at the past, present, and future of student affairs. And I really can't think of a better time to be doing that than right now. And so this year, kind of going back to our season on becoming, we're gonna be asking each of our guests 3 questions. 1 about the past of student affairs, one about the present, and one about the future. So in addition to learning about their professional areas of expertise, their functional areas, the work that they're doing on their campuses, and the messages they have for all of us. I really look forward to hearing their thoughts on that topic.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:45]: You know, I'm really looking forward to it as well. And I think there's going to be a wide array of individuals that have some really interesting things to say. We have some names that we're already looking at. We're excited about the people that are going to be joining us over the next year, and all this are out there. If there are people that you feel that really should be a part of this season that have compelling stories or have something that that you feel that could really add to the discourse about the past, present, and future of our profession, we'd love to hear from you. Send us an email at [email protected]. And we would love to be able to get your names that you're submitting in, whether it's you, whether it's someone else. Let us know.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:32]: And when we talk about past, present, and future voices, we're also looking at where you are in the tenure in your career. If you're retired, we wanna hear from you. If you are in your very first year, we wanna hear from you. If you're a grad student, we especially wanna hear from you. And if you're a mid level professional making it work day in and day out, we wanna hear from you. So please reach out. We'd love to feature your voice on the show for season 112 on the past, present, and future of student affairs. See you very soon.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:05]: This has been an episode of SA voices from the field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at [email protected], or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:40]: This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

In the latest episode of "Student Affairs Voices from the Field," hosts Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Christopher Lewis bring Season 10 to a close with transformative updates and forward-looking announcements. Dr. Creighton opens the episode by introducing the podcast's continuing focus on transitions within student affairs, a nod to the overarching theme from Season 9. However, the hosts regret to inform listeners that the promised grand finale has been postponed. In its place, listeners are treated to the exciting news of upcoming bonus episodes featuring notable guests.

One of the key highlights is the announcement of Dr. Amelia Parnell as the incoming president of NASPA. Dr. Lewis shares his enthusiasm about Dr. Parnell's upcoming appearance on the podcast, where she will discuss the future direction of the association under her leadership. Dr. Creighton encourages prospective candidates to check out the newly posted Vice President for Policy and Research position at NASPA, emphasizing the mentorship opportunities available.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of On Transitions in Student Affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:20]:

Hey, Chris.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:24]: Hey, Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:24]: Well, our finale plans have hit a bit of a transition, haven't they?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:30]: Yeah. I guess, we are finishing off our season of transitions with a transition as we move into a further transition of a new season.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:38]: So with that in mind, we know that we promised you a finale worth waiting for. And I think, first of all, we're very sorry we're not gonna be able to deliver. So we don't wanna lead you astray with our promises for a big finale, but we do wanna promise you a couple of bonus episodes for the summer, including a very special guest. Chris, do you wanna tell us who's coming on?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:57]: You know, we're really excited to have doctor Amelia Parnell joining us this summer as she transitions into the president of NASPA role. And we've already reached out, talked to her. We're getting a time with her very soon to be able to record an episode to talk about where we're at as an association, but where we're going in the future under her leadership.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:19]: And with that in mind, a huge congratulations to Emilia. We could not be more thrilled to be led by you going forward. You are going to do an amazing job, and I just am so thrilled to be seeing you at the helm of NASPA. With that in mind too, we also see Amelia's former position is now posted. So if you are interested in becoming the vice president for policy and research at NASPA, go check out NASPA's career page. You can see the details of the job description, the posting, and all of the relevant information. We know that whomever comes into that role has some huge shoes to fill, but we also know they're going to have amazing mentorship. This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:01]: This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us atsa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:40]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of

We hope that you have been enjoying Season 10! We have one final episode coming for Season 10 and this is one that you will not want to miss. We will be back in a few weeks and then will be taking a break as we prepare for Season 11 of NASPA's SA Voices from the Field!

Transition as Growth: Vaughn's Bold Leaps from Athletics to Student Services

In the heartwarming and inspiring latest episode of NASPA's SA Voices From the Field podcast we welcomed Dr. Vaughn Calhoun, an esteemed academic leader, recounted his transformative journey from a student athlete with a career-ending injury to a beacon for change in higher education.

Engineering Identity Post-Injury

Calhoun began by sharing the immediate consequences of his injury and the impact it had on his self-image and life trajectory. He emphasized the importance of identity reconstruction, an experience that propelled him from a series of unfulfilling jobs to the realization that he needed to embrace authentic studenthood—a leap he bravely took by pursuing a master's degree far from the world of sports he knew.

Encounters That Changed

His Path One of the most pivotal moments in Calhoun's life was an encounter with a stranger at Borders bookstore who saw in him a potential future as a university athletic director. This set him on a path to his doctorate, with a determined goal to understand and improve collegiate athletics from an administrative perspective.

Mentorship and Its Lasting Impact

Calhoun credited much of his success to the mentors he encountered, specifically highlighting an inviting university president who believed in him and guided his professional growth. This president showed Calhoun how to harness vulnerability and understanding, which in turn helped him carve out his niche in student affairs.

The Student at Heart of the Leader

With a robust background in public policy and the professoriate, Calhoun brought humility and an unwavering focus on student success to his administrative roles. His approach has always been about being receptive to student needs and advocating for their growth and success, a principle he implemented in his roles at various educational institutions.

Innovation and Adaptation

Furthermore, Calhoun discussed the rise of AI in education and the urgent need for educators to integrate new technologies. Adaptation, he stressed, is not only inevitable but essential for student support and success, highlighting the importance of ethical considerations in the digital age.

Embracing the Journey

Closing the episode, Calhoun imparted advice to student affairs professionals undergoing transitions, encouraging them to focus on the process and seek mentorship. He suggests that staying authentic, seeking challenging experiences, and forming a supportive network are keys to personal and professional development.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of on transitions in student affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton. She, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Welcome back to our next episode of student affairs voices from the field. Today, we sat down with doctor Vaughn Calhoun live and in person at the NASPA annual conference in March 2024, Seattle, Washington. Doctor Calhoun serves as the assistant vice president of student services and dean of Center For Academic Success at Seton Hall University in South Orange, New Jersey. He's been featured on a number of national platforms, including platforms, including Fortune Magazine, Education Edition, The Chronicle of Higher Ed, Inside Higher Ed, Huffington Post, NASPA Policy Briefs, and the Student Affairs Now podcast.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:54]: A thought leader and commentator on issues related to the changing landscape of higher ed, doctor Calhoun believes critical dialogue is necessary to equip students for the future of work, which means cultivating adaptive learners who can thrive in a world that is increasingly volatile, uncertain, complex, and ambiguous. Doctor Calhoun's leadership career spans colleges and universities in the northeast from public, private, urban, suburban, small and large institutions with enrollments from 2,000 to more than 20,000 students. This experience includes public research universities, small private liberal arts, midsize Catholic universities to a predominantly online state university. Doctor Calhoun is a graduate of Rutgers University where he earned his bachelor's of science while also participating as a full scholarship student athlete on the football team. He also earned his master's of public policy and administration from Cal State Long Beach and a doctorate of education from Northeastern University in Boston, Massachusetts. Von, welcome to SA Voices.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:01:46]: Hello. How's it going? Thank you for having me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:48]: It's such a joy for me to be able to meet with guests in person because normally we're across time zones and on a Zoom box and things like that. So I really appreciate you taking time out of your conference to connect with us.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:01:59]: Absolutely. Happy to share anything and answer anything.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:02]: In our theme of transitions, when we got your story for casting, we just looked at it and went, we really wanna talk to you.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:02:07]: Okay.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:07]: Because your story, I think, is kind of unique in the world of student affairs, but also unique in that you've kind of been in a lot of different spaces before figuring out that your space, your professional purpose is here.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:02:20]: Absolutely. It took me a while.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:21]: So we know you're at Seton Hall now. We always like to know how you got to that seat, but we'd love for you to trace that journey through the beginning of sport.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:02:29]: Wow. No. That's just fantastic question. And, you know, my journey, it's something that I could not have mapped out. Yep. It it was something that really took shape while I was a student athlete. I played football at Rutgers. And in my 1st year at Rutgers, I blew my knee out.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:02:45]: And that was one of those things that you always think that happens to somebody else.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:50]: Yeah.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:02:50]: But when it happens to you, it's kinda like, oh my god. Like, it's happening. And not long after that, my head coach, he was fired. So these 2 big life moment events happened within 3 or 4 months of each other. And while I was at Rutgers, to compound that, at least at the time, I was steered into a major because it was athletic friendly. And that set me up on a course for not necessarily focusing as much as I probably should have on academics. And once I finished at Rutgers, I always tell people I graduated there, but I wasn't necessarily educated there. And that's a huge difference.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:03:22]: And it took me a while to kind of contextualize, well, what happened to me? And it wasn't until I read the book, The 40,000,000 Dollar Slave, The Rise, Fall, and Redemption of the Black Athlete, that really put it into context for me. And in particular, this book, it talks about the conveyor belt theory. Essentially, you have these institutions who go into black and brown neighborhoods and extract raw black or brown talent. And you're put on this figurative conveyor belt. And when you're on this belt, 1, you never know you're on the belt until you're off the belt. And the thing with the belt is there's always someone in front of you and someone behind you. Mhmm. And you move along this belt, and you get off the belt because you blow your knee out.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:03:58]: You aren't as good as they thought you were. And the consensus is next person up. And when the next person is up, you're essentially out. And when I read that, I was like, oh my god. I was a part of a system in which I didn't know until I read that. I was like, oh, that's what happened to me. And in that process, I was still trying to figure out, well, who am I now without sport? Because sport was something that I identified with since I was 6, 7 years old. And now here I am 21, 22 years old and it and it's over.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:04:25]: So now it's this journey of recreating myself. Like, who am I? And that led me on to going through a 1000000 different types of jobs. My first job out of college was shredding paper. Literally, shredding paper. I went back from my old school district and we were going from paper student records to electronic student records. This is 2004. And here I am, these boxes and boxes of student records. I'm literally scanning and shredding.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:04:50]: Wow. Scanning and shredding for 8 hours a day. I'm like, what the heck am I doing? And it gave me a lot of time to think in the process, and then that's when I decide, okay. I wanna go and try to be an authentic student. Go get my masters. It didn't really matter what it was. I just wanna explore this other piece of me that I didn't feel that I fully tapped into. So I ended up getting my or going to Cal State University Long Beach.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:05:13]: I'm originally from California. Going to Cal State Long Beach and I did my master's in public policy. And that's when I just started reading not just books on public policy, but just all types of books. Trying to figure out who am I in relation to the world.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:25]: So you invested in your education for yourself. Absolutely.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:05:28]: And during this process, there were so many things that I didn't realize about the world, about myself. And also in trying to find out who I am, I started taking on even more jobs. So I sold copy machines door to door in Los Angeles. And that was just something that I think everyone should try sales at least once. Just the experience of walking up to somebody and trying to sell something. Mhmm. And I remember I had this whole script. And my thing was walking into business parks and knocking on doors and saying, hey.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:05:55]: Can I talk to the person in charge of document management? And they're like, what's document management? And that was my end. Once you ask me a question, I can give you my spiel. So that was an experience. I even got put on a do not enter list because I was very persistent. And I kept going back and back and back trying to get the business. And then from there, I thought, okay. Maybe I wanna be an attorney. Maybe so then I took LSATs.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:06:15]: And then I said, well, maybe I might not wanna be an attorney. I might wanna be a police officer. I was driving down the 405 Freeway in Los Angeles, and there's this huge billboard that said LAPD hiring starting pay with a master's degree, $70,000. So I drove home, went online, put in my application, got called back for the written exam, and then got called back for the physical exam. And after I took my physical exam, it was about a 8 month period where it's just background check. In that time, I found me another job. I started working in insurance. And it was just this whirlwind of trying to figure myself out, but it wasn't until I had this one interesting interaction at Borders bookstore.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:06:50]: Remember Borders? It was like,

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:52]: oh, yeah. Mini Barnes and Noble.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:06:53]: Yeah. It was like it was like, you know, it was like Nike Reebok is Barnes and Noble's Borders. And I love Borders. But I walked in one day and this older gentleman looked like Bernie Sanders. Right? And he says, hey, did you play Rutgers? I'm like, mind you, I'm in Long Beach, California. How in the world does this guy know I played? And I barely even played. But I had a Rutgers Football t shirt on. He's, oh, okay.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:07:12]: He says, oh, it must have been a fantastic experience. Right? So, you know, older gentleman. So I sit down and have a conversation with them. And at the end of the conversation, you know, after I share my story with him, he goes, I can see it now. Vaughn Calhoun, athletic director, USC, Stanford, University of Texas. I'm like, oh, I've never even thought about myself in that way. Right? And he was the first gentleman, the first person who kinda put in my mind that I can maybe fix college athletics or do something about it because my experience as a student athlete wasn't the greatest one.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:42]: He was a total stranger.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:07:43]: Absolutely. Total stranger. Did did know him, but we spent at least an hour with each other. And subsequently, we kept talking, kept meeting with each other and he even introduced me to his network who was a sitting athletic director in Los Angeles. So he said, hey, I want you to meet my buddy. I'm like, okay. So now there's this whole world of college athletics on the administration side that I didn't know exist. Well, I knew it existed, but I didn't know, like, that was a path that I could take.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:08:06]: So now this is 2,008. I just got married and if you recall, we had the financial meltdown and crisis in the world was just going in bad places. And I decided in that period of time that I'm gonna leave my job and move across the country to pursue my doctoral degree. And everyone thought I was nuts. Even my parents, like, what are you doing? You're leaving because at the time, I was working at for a local government agency making, you know, pretty decent money. And I said, you know what? The money at that time money's important, but it wasn't important. Right? I said, this is the thing that I wanna do because I said, I wanna understand how a college works and where does athletics fit within an institution of higher education so I can be an athletic director and fix it. And then here I am moving to Boston.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:08:49]: Literally, set my car, My wife and I are now newlyweds in Boston. And I remember as I'm going through this transition, I get to my last year of my doctoral program, and my dean and I get very friendly. And he says to me, listen, Vaughn. I know what you're trying to do. You wanna fix college athletics, but the way that you feel about it, 1, are they gonna let you in? And 2, if they do let you in, do you have to uphold the system in which you don't believe in?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:09:14]: I was like, oh, dang. Those are some great questions.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:16]: That's a hard hard dissonance to deal with.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:09:18]: And I was like, what do I do? He said, well, I have door number 2. I said, well, what's door number 2? He said, you can teach. I said, who the heck am I gonna teach? And he said, listen, because my dissertation was on student athletes who were academically clustered, steered into a major because it was athletic friendly. It was a qualitative research study looking at the lived experience of student athletes who were clustered. So he says, I want you to come into my undergraduate class and just give a presentation on it. Right? So I said, okay.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:09:42]: So I did it once, did it twice, and then he says, do you feel comfortable with that now? I said, yeah. I feel pretty good because the students were very engaging. I was like, oh, this this is teaching, Oh, I can do this. He says, okay. Now I want you to start applying to faculty jobs. I was like, oh.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:53]: Oh, he's pathwaying you.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:09:54]: I was like, oh, you we didn't say I was like and he said just start applying. So I was like, alright. Let me start applying. So here I am, and now I'm sitting in these faculty interviews. And, hate to say this, even when I was in college, I didn't read my first book until spring semester senior year, cover to cover. So now here I am in these faculty interviews talking about my academic and teaching philosophies and all these things. And, you know, not in my distant past, I was that student who was just kind of out there and and not being a real student. Right? So I get a callback and says, you're hired.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:10:27]: I was like, oh, wow. Right? And that was just, you know, my pathway into higher ed working for a business department, at a small private liberal arts outside of Boston. And as I'm going through this, it really just, one, changed the way that I just thought about just myself in this phase of just recreation that I could create a new identity outside of just sports. But interestingly, I had a buddy who was moving from Maryland up to Boston at this one particular college. And I've heard of it. I drove past it every day. I didn't know much about it. And this college had a black male sitting college president.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:11:03]: I was like, that's pretty awesome. You don't really see that in particular within, like, Massachusetts. Mhmm. So I just Google searched him and he had these interviews and articles. So he's a really dynamic individual. So literally, on a Saturday morning, pulled my phone out, saw he had a Twitter, I tweeted at him. I was like, hey, you inspire me. And a few minutes later, he tweeted back.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:11:24]: He was like, thanks. So like, oh, you answered your old tweets. This is awesome. So I said, hey. Can I so now now I was like, okay? He I got him engaged. So I said, this is my opportunity. So I said, okay. I tweeted again, can I have the informational interview? Right? And I heard nothing.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:11:37]: I was like, oh, okay. You know, people are busy

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:39]: you know. Shot.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:11:40]: Right? Yeah. I'm gonna shoot You know, either 1 or 2 things can happen. You make it or you miss it. Yeah. But 2 weeks later, I get an email from his executive assistant that says, you know, the president wants to meet you. I was like, oh, this is awesome. So now this is August 2015. So I go sit in the president's office.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:11:56]: We were there for 3 hours literally. Wow. Just talking about his career, how he did what he did, why he did it, talked about myself, what I wanna do, what I think I wanna do. And in that meeting, he said to me, you can be a college president. I was like, woah. Again, right, just having these individuals, I couldn't plan for that. Right? So a few months later or within this interim period, we would text and talk. He introduced me to his network, and my job's August 20 15.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:12:21]: So a few months later, December 2015 and again, we never talked about jobs. Just philosophy about life and stuff. And he says, I wanna offer you a job. I want you to work for me. I was like, oh, okay. I got a job over here, but I like what you're saying just in terms of just his energy and enthusiasm. So I went and worked for this guy, and he would literally bring me into meetings I had no business being in. He hired me as an an assistant professor, which eventually I I was elevated to the chair of the chair of the department sitting as a faculty chair.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:12:51]: But I would go into these executive cabinet meetings and literally just sit on the wall with, you know, all the other VPs and they're all kinda looking at me, like, why is this guy here? And after every meeting, we would just have conversation about, okay, this is what's happening. This is why I said this, this, that, and the third. And, you know, this just happened, you know, over the next few years. And in this period of time, you know, he would bring me, like, literally into his, like, his personal life. Right? You know, he would bring me into his home with my wife and my son, you know, and and talk with his family, his wife, his kids. It it just became this this really awesome dynamic. And one day I just asked him, like, why are you doing this? Because he was just so generous. And he said, because someone did it for me.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:13:30]: I just asked that you do this for somebody else. I was like, I got you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:33]: Paying it forward in mentorship.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:13:35]: Absolutely. Right? So, and one of the things he said, by you working for me you're gonna know the questions to ask. I was like, I don't know what that means. So as I'm going up from my first AVP position, I was able during the interview to really diagnose and break down some of the nuances and ask these very specific questions. And I ended up getting the job, and I remember calling him after the final interview. He was like, I understand what you mean. I knew the questions to ask. Right? And I think those questions help separate me in terms of just how I looked at the position.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:14:06]: But, you know, it was just through these events and people, I couldn't have planned this out. And when I talk about this transition, it's just a lot of constant movement but being open to that movement. Being open to being vulnerable. Being open to saying, okay. I don't know what this is, but I wanna explore it. And that's one of the things that I share with a lot of my mentees. It's put yourself out there. Ask those questions because if you don't ask, you're not gonna know.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:14:29]: So I think these are the these things that we don't often talk about in particular, leaning into your network, finding those mentors. And I think mentorship becomes very cliche, like, find a mentor, have this mentor, but, no, really build those authentic relationships. And that has helped me tremendously. I couldn't be in this position without those individuals or it would have took me much much longer to sit in the seat at Seton Hall.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:50]: That is an extraordinary journey from being a d one football player to weaving your way through to this dean of students path now. Do you still see yourself on that pathway to a college presidency?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:15:02]: I aspire to higher leadership and I know that sometimes we're in such a hurry to get there. But in getting there, you're learning so many lessons. Even in in these past few years, I've learned so many lessons just about myself, about how to manage and lead people. Mhmm. So I definitely see myself on that trajectory and I definitely wanna get there. But one thing someone told me is like don't rush the process. Right? The process is the process. You know, you don't wanna end up getting there and not being ready for it.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:15:31]: So I'm very mindful of that and and making sure that I'm putting myself in positions to sit on different committees, to be a part of conversation that make me a little uncomfortable. Like, oh, I don't know too much about the nuances of finance and budgeting, but let me sit there with it. And I think if I continue doing these things, doing good work, opportunities will present itself.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:49]: You've had a nontraditional education path into student affairs itself. How did you get yourself up to speed with all of the student affairs literature and practice knowing you come from that MPP background, that faculty end. And student affairs for those of us who've kind of been in the field a while, I think there's generally a point of frustration when we see someone who's come from a pathway that didn't include that student development foundation, and then all of a sudden we're being led by this person. So how did you come from that place of humility while still bringing your expertise that you definitely had in the public policy space?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:16:20]: Yeah. I think one thing for me is I know that I don't know, and I'm not afraid to tell folks that I don't know that I need your help. And I think when you lead with that, folks typically look at that as a point of humility. I'm not gonna say I know more than you. Because truth is, you know, any new job that you walk into, folks who are there know more than you about that particular institution. So earlier in my career, part of what I did was I was an assistant athletic director for 3 and a half, 4 years at a small private liberal arts and reported up to the dean of students and we were housed within student affairs. So I was always a part of those a lot of my job was around the student success on the athletic side, but it was for a division 3 institution. Mhmm.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:17:05]: So the dynamics are a little bit different than division 1 where the emphasis on division 3 is the whole student. And division 1 does that, but I think more so like division 3, it is just part of the culture and fabric of we know that. More times than not, no one's turning pro. That's not what our goal is. We're not trying to generate revenue in that sense. And then for me, I got into this because I was driven by my own negative experience. Mhmm. So student success and making sure that students are always at the top of mind is something that I always talk about and that I always lead with.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:17:36]: So when people hear my story and when when people understand why I'm doing what I'm doing, knowing that I have this background that is a little unique, but it's always toward that north star of how are we helping our students. And I think once that gets conveyed and understood, it helps galvanize people.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:51]: How did that student athlete experience inform how you practice in student affairs now?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:17:56]: Being a student athlete, at least at the time, I felt that I wasn't heard, wasn't necessarily valued. So anytime I see a student engage with a student, I wanna make sure that they're heard, that they're validated. Because when in particular, if a student reaches my office, usually something didn't go right at some point along the way. Right? And whatever their challenges are is the most important thing to them in that moment. And me being a former just student athlete knowing that I wish I had an advocate, I wish I had someone who could really just stand up for me. I take that mindset. And even when I get these parent calls, knowing that I wish that my parents could have engaged with somebody and someone would have been receptive. So always taking that to heart and make sure that I never forget that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:38]: You've navigated a lot of change very successfully. Change and the mindset that you bring and kind of your philosophy around how you make transitions?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:18:55]: Yeah. You know, change is the really only constant and being open to it. Because I think so many times, generally speaking, folks are opposed to change because you always ask yourself, what does this mean for me? What am I gonna lose versus, well, what could I gain? And I always took the perspective of there are some things that I don't know that I know that I need to experience these things in order to become a better person and to elevate in my career. So if I would just sit back and what's comfortable, I'm not gonna grow. And interestingly, my son, he's 9 years old. And that's one thing that I really try to challenge him with. Right now he's doing Taekwondo and he's on the sparring team. And it can be pretty tough.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:19:30]: He has a really old school hard nose instructor. And my son always talks about, oh, this is getting tough. It's getting tough. I said, no. The tough part means that this is your growth phase. These are when the moments of you're gonna question yourself, but what are you gonna do in those moments? Are you gonna sit back or are you gonna meet the challenges? And that's something as a former student athlete, we couldn't just sit back and be comfortable. Because if we sit back and be comfortable, there's someone else that's working when we're not working. So constantly trying to say, how can we get better? How can we get that edge? Edge? And I take that with changes.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:20:01]: Things are moving. Right? And if I don't try to keep up with the change or get ahead of the change, we're going to be stunted in some way. And at the end of the day, the students will suffer for it. And I really think about this right, so when we think about AI, and I think one of the first reactions a year or so ago was this is the worst thing in the world. It's going to crush teaching. It's gonna crush learning. In some regards, it might to a certain extent, but also what are the opportunities of helping individuals? What are the opportunities in which we can streamline? And because students are going to enter a world that's AI driven, if we just turn our heads to that and pretend that it doesn't exist, we're doing them a disservice. Mhmm.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:20:36]: So how can we as a college community, staff, and faculty, educate ourselves so we can best educate our students and talk about it through through the lens of ethics. Talk about it through the lens of how these new technologies, though it could be different and scary, are gonna be the things that they're gonna need to be successful.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:52]: Well, and also AI is just not ChatGPT alone.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:20:56]: Absolutely. And I think

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:56]: that's been kind of the narrative in higher ed, that ChatGPT is the end of academic integrity. But there are also institutions that are using it really well for, like, auto replies when students need information

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:21:06]: That's right.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:07]: At 2 in the morning.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:21:07]: That's right.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:08]: Or, you know, texting services or or whatever. So there's lots of cool opportunities, but then there's also ethical issues around copyrights and particularly with arts.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:21:17]: Correct.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:17]: Things like that, so but I also came aware recently of an AI repository that's cataloging, like, millions of research papers, which will be an incredible resource for doctoral students of the future, which which I wish I had access to when I was doing my doctorate. So it'll make the lit review process faster in some ways, but I think also will start to discourage people from reading whole articles. I mean, let's be honest, we're always skimmers anyway, but but I think that will be a fascinating evolution too.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:21:41]: Absolutely.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:42]: Do you have any advice for student affairs professionals that are in their own space of transition right now?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:21:46]: I think for anyone in the space of transition, knowing that it's gonna be difficult to a certain extent, but also knowing that if you just stayed where you're at, can you really grow? And sometimes you have to go out and put yourself in those vulnerable positions. As simple as asking for a mentor. Asking someone, will you mentor me? And again, for me, it's they can either say 1 or 2 things. They can say yes, or they can say no, or they don't respond. But what I think, you know, going through transition just knowing, focusing on the process and not the outcome and knowing that the journey will be the journey, whatever that journey, whatever that process is, and just focus on doing good work, Focus on being as authentic as you can, and focus on surrounding yourself with individuals who will speak life and encourage you. And also make sure you have those individuals who tell you the truth because we don't always just want cheerleaders around. We want those individuals say, hey. Can I give you some constructive criticism or some critiques? And that's where you can learn the most so you don't have as many gaps as you would if you didn't have those individuals there.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:41]: And if you're able to hear that when it's given.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:22:43]: Yes. Right. You gotta be open to that. Because some people, you know, the the the Eagles can be very fragile, but you have to be able to really take that to say, okay. You know, they're saying this because they wanna help me, not hurt me in most cases.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:54]: Mhmm. I think that can be quite dependent on the, the provider of that advice. Absolutely. Solicited or unsolicited.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:22:59]: And if you don't ask to to solicit something from somebody, why would you listen to someone that you wouldn't solicit information from? So for me, it's making sure that you have good people around you who really care for your best interest.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:10]: Is there anything that you did in a transition that you look back and say, wow, I wish I would've done that a little differently?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:23:15]: I think it's always hard to gauge what you're gonna walk into. And you have an idea of what a situation is, but you never know what it's going to be until you actually get there. So for me, it's really just ground myself in knowing who I am and knowing my strengths as well as knowing where my gaps are and just being just just very honest with myself about that. And that can be hard for folks. Right? Every time, you know, folks say, you know, I I know all these things and I can do this. And you wanna be that go getter, but also at the same time, just just knowing that constantly learn as much as you can. And learning people, learning programs, and learning processes. Like, those like my 3 p's.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:23:51]: I wish I would've known that about 10 years ago, but every institution, there's people, there's programs, there's processes. Learn those as quickly as you can. Mhmm. And knowing that the process, again, will be the process. And have a lot of those informal conversations as much as you can and just getting to really know individuals as individuals.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:09]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:15]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a lot of things happening in NASPA. There's a brand new Leadership Exchange Magazine that recently came out for spring 2024. And if you've never read the Leadership Exchange, you definitely should. The Leadership Exchange is the magazine for all of our chief student affairs officers that NASPA puts out a number of times throughout the year. And this Springs Leadership Exchange Magazine is focused around preserving campus discourse. Inside of this magazine, you're going to see some amazing articles throughout the entire magazine that do talk about campus discourse and what you can do on your own campus to be able to protect free speech on your campus. There are some articles about visibility and promoting Afro Latinx students, understanding professional certification, and how you can elevate your own division through professional certification, and also talking about some of the stories of student affairs and also talking about some of the stories within student affairs.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:14]: These magazines are not just written for vice presidents for student affairs. So don't let that turn you away from learning, from reading this and taking out of it some amazing kernels of knowledge. You can access this on the NASPA website. Go to the NASPA website, click on public publications, and you'll see the Leadership Exchange is one of the publications that is available to you as a member. Also, there's a few other NASPA books that I wanted to share with you that you may find very helpful on your own campuses and in the work that you do. 1st and foremost is a book called Small and Mighty Student Affairs at Small Colleges and Universities. This book explores critical opportunities and challenges at higher education institutions with fewer than 5,000 students. Written by a diverse group of seasoned campus leaders, written by a diverse group of seasoned campus leaders, this comprehensive text covers a range of topics relevant to higher education and student affairs while providing detailed insights and action to take for and in support of to take for in support of and alongside students at small colleges and universities.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:20]: Thriving in the small college culture requires flexibility, collaboration, and the ability to shift rapidly within the changing environment of higher education. Small and Mighty offers thoughtful strategies and insights to help student affairs professionals identify innovative solutions, innovative solutions to some of the most pressing issues facing small colleges and universities today. This book was written by Carol Livingston, Krista Porter, and Thomas Shandley and it is a amazing book for anyone working at a small college or university. And I highly encourage you to pick up a copy today. Now this season we've been talking about transitions and one of the big transitions that many student affairs professionals will go through in their career is supervising others. Another book that is available is called Supervised Practice Connecting Professional Competency Areas to Professional Development and Student Affairs. Supervised practice has become a hallmark of how the field of higher education and student affairs prepares future professionals. This book explores how to create the conditions necessary for supervised practice and the graduate academic curriculum to be a seamless learning experience.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:28]: Becoming a supervisor is a hallmark of how the field of higher education and student affairs prepares future professionals. This book explores how to create affairs prepares future professionals. This book explores how to create the conditions necessary for supervised practice and the graduate academic curriculum to be a seamless learning experience. With a focus on the ACPA and NASPA professional competency areas as the bedrock for enhancing proficiency in the field. This book is designed to introduce the competency areas as they relate to supervised practice in graduate preparation programs. Chapters examine how to design experiences for students in the workplace that align with the ACPA and NASPA professional competency areas, create condition for graduate students to understand the application of theory within the workplace, establish an environment that promotes an understanding of the supervisory role as it relates to socializing and retaining new professionals in student affairs, create learning partnerships that focus on the intersection of individual development and the acquisition of knowledge and skills for administrative practice, develop professional philosophy of practice in the digital age, and assess the professional competency areas within the graduate the graduate practicum and employee experience to ensure learning and development. If you supervise graduate students or want to supervise graduate students in the future as they prepare to be professionals in the field, a brand new book called Supervised Practice Connecting Professional Competency Areas to Professional Development and Student Affairs is definitely a book you wanna pick up. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:00]: So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:22]: Chris, thank you so much for keeping us informed on going on in and around NASPA. And, Vaughn, we have now reached our lightning round.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:30:28]: Awesome.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:29]: I have 7 questions for you in 90 seconds.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:30:32]: Oh, alright. I'll do I'll do my best.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:34]: Bring out your competitive story. Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:30:41]: Oh, my god. Oh, jeez. It would be something with, my favorite artist. One of my favorite artist is Jay z. I don't know what, but something within his catalog.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:50]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:30:53]: I wanted to be a San Francisco 49er. I wanna be just like Jerry Rice.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:58]: Number 3. Who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:31:00]: Oh, that would be Dr. Robert Johnson, the current president of Western New England University.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:06]: Number 4. Your essential student affairs read. Anything that deals with student success. Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:31:14]: Oh, Ballers with Dwayne Rock Johnson.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:17]: Number 6, the podcast you spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:31:21]: Steven Bartlett, The Diaries of a CEO.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:23]: And finally, number 7. Any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:31:27]: Absolutely. I love to shout out my wife who's always been there for me, who's been a constant truth teller, but in a very loving way. And I'll also shout out my son. He's 9 years old. He keeps me young, and he keeps me on my toes as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:40]: Von, it's been just a joy to get to know you today. I'm very grateful that you took some time out of your conference to speak with us here on SA Voices. And if others would like to speak with you after the show, how can they find you?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:31:50]: They can find me on LinkedIn, Vaughn Calhoun, or they can find me at my email, [email protected].

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:58]: Thank you so much for sharing your voice and your story with us today.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:32:01]: Thank you for having me. I appreciate you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:05]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us atsa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:46]: This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

Welcome to NASPA's SA Voices From the Field Podcast. This week we had an insightful conversation from our podcast with Dr. Stacey Malaret, a seasoned authority in student affairs, recorded at the NASPA annual conference in Seattle.

Transitioning Roles: Administrator to Educator

During the episode, Dr. Malaret, who has worked in student development since 1999 and serves as the Director for the Lead Scholars Academy at UCF, shared her insights on balancing administrative duties with academic responsibilities. She teaches leadership studies and serves on dissertation committees, embodying the blend of practitioner and scholar.

Generational Shifts in Leadership

Dr. Malaret highlighted the generational changes from millennials to Gen Z, stressing the unique leadership development needed for today's diverse student populations. UCF's Lead Scholars Academy and U-LEAD programs are testament to her progressive and adaptive methods, which now include a virtual leadership academy initiated eight years ago.

The Online Learning Curve

Our discussion also shed light on the augmented reality of higher education - online learning. Dr. Malaret emphasized the myth of online courses being 'easier', arguing that self-motivation is key to success in a digital classroom. While the asynchronous nature of online courses provides flexibility, it also demands a greater level of self-drive and discipline from students.

Bridging Academic and Student Affairs

A significant portion of our dialogue revolved around understanding the interplay between academic and student affairs. As a faculty member, Dr. Malaret brings a unique perspective to student success, bridging curricular and co-curricular experiences. Her involvement at both ends of the educational spectrum allows her to witness firsthand the impact of out-of-class experiences on academic success.

Advice for Aspiring Educators

For those aspiring to transition into teaching, Dr. Malaret suggested volunteering as a teaching assistant or adjunct professor to gain valuable classroom experience. She advised that understanding the academic calendar and significant dates can help student affairs professionals to be more empathetic and supportive of students during stressful times like finals and midterms.

The Balancing Act

Dr. Malaret affirmsedthat engaging in the classroom will enrich the abilities of student affairs professionals, influencing workshops, presentations, and even student interactions. By wearing multiple hats and thriving in each, Dr. Malaret serves as an inspirational figure for those navigating the complex landscape of student affairs and higher education.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of on transitions in student affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton. She, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today, we welcome our next guest who we were able to sit down with at the NASPA annual conference in Seattle, Washington this March 2024. Welcome to doctor Stacey Mallaret, originally from Orlando, Florida, and who attended the University of Southern Mississippi for her bachelor of arts degree in psychology. She then graduated in 1998 from the University of Central Florida with the master of arts in student personnel, and in 2007 with her in educational leadership. She's worked in the student affairs development field since 1999, and currently serves as the director for the Lead Scholars Academy at UCF.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:53]: She teaches educational leadership, strategies for success and leadership studies classes, in addition to chairing and serving on dissertation committees. Alright. Stacey, welcome to essay voices. Thank you. And we are recording live at the NASPA annual conference today. We're in a meeting room right now. So for our listeners, there's audio quality differences that you're noticing. It's we're really live in person, and so it's it's not a frequent thing that I get to interview frequent thing that I get to interview guests in person, so this is a really big treat for me as well.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:01:17]: Oh, me too. Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:18]: And you're at the University of Central Florida, and you have multiple hats, both as an administrator and as a faculty member. So we're gonna be talking today mostly about your transition between those two spaces and how those kind of supplement your work and understanding as a practitioner. Great. But we love to always start by asking our guests, how did you find your way into your current seat?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:01:39]: Well, back in the 1900, as my children would say, I was a really involved student leader. My father used to say I majored in Delta Zeta because that's all I talked about. Didn't really talk about my classes. And I think I had the traditional tap on the shoulder saying, hey. Have you heard about student affairs type of conversation? And I did my research pre Internet, you know, to try to find, you know, different institutions. And I ended up going to, actually, University of Central Florida for my master's. I'm from Orlando originally. Got an assistantship, worked in student activities, got my first job in student activities. And also, during my grad program, had a practicum teaching a SLS course as a strategies and learning success course at a, say, college with shout out to Dana Gentlemen, who's a good colleague that I've known for a long time now, and

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:32]: so shout out to Dana Genten, who's a good colleague that I've known for a long time now. And so whenever I meet someone from UCF, I always think of her.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:42]: Yes. I know Dana very well. Please tell her I said hi.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:02:43]: I will.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:43]: Back to your campus. So talk first a little bit about your day job. What is it that you're doing in the student affairs world mostly?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:02:49]: So I am a director of our leadership programs area. It's called the LEAD Scholars Academy. It's an academic and co curricular leadership development program for incoming 1st year students, and then we also have a program for upper class students, which we call U LEAD.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:02]: It's been an interesting generational transition time right now between what we thought millennials needed in leadership space to now what we're seeing Gen Z is needing and they're very different things. What are you doing to adapt your practice to the generational mindset that we're seeing now?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:03:18]: Well, one thing that we started probably about 8 years ago is a virtual leo Leadership Academy. It has 8 different modules on various leadership topics that any student with a UCF ID can log in and do at their leisure. We did that because we found that students wanted that virtual space as available to them. Whether or not they take advantage of it is another question.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:40]: Of course.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:03:41]: But they wanted to have that. And I've seen different colleagues who have used that for training their own student leaders. So if maybe they couldn't take a leadership class, this was kind of the next best thing that they could say, okay. Well, before you become a peer mentor with us or a resident assistant or orientation leader or what have you. Take this virtual leadership academy so you get the basics of what leadership is as part of their training process.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:04]: And you said that was developed 8 years ago. Correct. So you were doing virtual online learning before it was cool?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:04:09]: We were ahead of the curve. Yes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:12]: So as you're looking ahead, how has that curriculum evolved over time?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:04:16]: Well, we have adopted the social change model as our basis for leadership development, but then we've supplemented throughout the years with other leadership theories, and we started doing strengths quests this past year. So we've been adding to the social change model as our base what we think would be good for students to learn and know about themselves and others.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:40]: For those who aren't familiar with the social change model, can you give us a a 30 second CliffsNotes?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:04:45]: Sure. So Susan Komaviz is one of the authors of the social change model, and it focuses on individual values, group values, and societal values, and how to make the world a better place. So learning about yourself, learning how to work with others, and learning how to take that knowledge and help with your community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:02]: It's a unique leadership model because it's one of the few that was co developed in community with other leaders as opposed to one person being, like, here's my idea of leadership. So they kind of modeled their own leadership values and theory by creating it in their way. So if you've not read The Social Change Model, I would encourage you to do so. And, also, it's one of those ones that has a beautiful abbreviation. They always talk about the 7 c's and the 3 buckets.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:05:24]: And students really resonate with it because they can say, oh, well, I focus on this c, or I focus on, you know, collaboration or consciousness of self. I learned in strengths quest. I learned this about myself, and I'm able to relate it to a model. So it makes them feel a little bit more connected with our curriculum.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:42]: And one of my favorite things about the 7 c's model too is that you can really focus kind of in a module based form on each of the c's as opposed to, kind of looking at this long nebulous trajectory of leadership. You can really, really kind of narrow in on common purpose or civility Contribution. Yeah. Those types of things. So there's a lot of amazing institutions doing good work with

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:06:03]: Yeah.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:03]: This framework right now. I actually just had a conversation this morning in the Global, Division Leadership Board with a good colleague from South Africa who was saying, oh my gosh, we're using the social change model at our universities at Stellenbosch in South Africa, and I also see us talking about it here in the US. So that one's really permeating right now. And then your side hustle quote unquote is working as a faculty member. What are you doing in that space?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:06:29]: So I teach a Strategies for Success course for incoming freshmen, and I also teach in the higher ed program as well at our institution.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:37]: And I believe you're also advising doctoral

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:06:47]: their their dissertation chair, and then I also serve on committees as well. And that's a great way to help with the highest level students going into this field or just wanting to further their education.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:59]: You're really spanning the corners of the

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:07:01]: Freshman to doctorate.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:02]: Yes. Freshman to doctorate from Orlando to Seattle.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:07:06]: Right. And I and I actually were in Seattle, and I took a walk yesterday around town, and I passed by the City University of Seattle campus. I took a picture. I was like, oh, maybe I should go and get my faculty ID.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:16]: Did you get it?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:07:17]: No. It was Sunday, so I didn't. But I was like, maybe I should today.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:20]: I think that's a be a fun souvenir from Yeah. Your trip to Seattle. And in thinking about what you're seeing in evolution and transition of the research right now, I know we went through a period of time where everyone was really intense about wanting to research the impacts of the pandemic. And I think we're starting to see that soften a little bit on the research and and now. What are you seeing that doctoral students are most interested in studying in the present?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:07:42]: Well, I have a lot of students who are studying diverse components of higher education. So, for example, the black woman's experience in the faculty world. Or I have one who's focusing on humor and how practitioners need humor in order just to get through the day. And so how do they cope with their day to day job? So it's very diverse. I don't have a really one area that students are picking up. It really depends on their individual interest. I

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:19]: education faculty space. Mhmm. Because I think in our academy, you know, that we do have a knowledge community here in NASPA called Student Affairs Partnering with Academic Affairs, but those who are not insiders to higher ed don't necessarily understand the level of chasm that can exist between administration side and faculty side. So Yeah. I'd love to hear about how you transition your mindset between both roles, and then also kind of bring those pieces together for your colleagues that are in either space.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:08:45]: Well, first, in order to kinda get into the space, you need experience to get the experience, which is kind of the mantra in student affairs. And so if we have graduate students listening, I would say volunteer to serve as a graduate teaching assistant for free with a faculty member, whether it's a freshman seminar course or a leadership course or something that is more aligned with the student affairs area. Freshman seminar strategies for success, things like that are college one zero one courses are typically the one that has the biggest comparison to student affairs and biggest likeliness to have some topics that are in both areas. So I would say volunteer. Even if you're a practitioner, see if you could volunteer. Mhmm. You know, because that's how I got my first side hustle gig when I was working in student activities. I did that one GTA experience for a practicum and it was on my resume and they needed an adjunct for a freshman seminar course.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:09:38]: And they said, Stacey, you have experience. You could do this. And I kinda faked it till I made it. I was like, sure. I could do this. And just kind of struggled along and had mentors who were faculty members, like, you know, asked them, can you share your lesson plans? Can you give what you do? And I think that's really important the first time you teach is find someone who's taught it before to help you along. And so I think that there is a great relationship between teaching those types of courses and being a practitioner because you're able to see the students in a different mindset. Mhmm.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:10:08]: You can read their reflections that they may have spoken to you individually about how they're doing or about their academic advising. So there's a great relationship between student success coaching, academic advising, and teaching a freshman seminar type class. Because in my class, I have them talk about what they're taking next semester, Have them talk about what their major is, what they wanna do when they graduate. And those are all conversations that practitioners have normally with students. It's just in a more academic context, and you're grading them. You wouldn't grade them talking to them. Right. But you'd be grading them about their ability to reflect, and I think it's a great way to get to know the students in a different lens.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:48]: I am curious if you have any advice for practitioners who are looking to teach their first course, but do need to be or deserve to be compensated for that first course because it's a great privilege to be able to volunteer one's time for that type of thing. And in student affairs especially, I think we give away our time for free a lot. Yes. And so how would you kind of take that first step inside of that world if you do want to or need to be paid for that work?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:11:11]: Well, I would first talk to whoever the department chair is and say what is the compensation for adjuncts.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:16]: Mhmm. Which we know is not great.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:11:18]: Yeah. It could range anywhere from 1,000 to 5 $1,000, I've seen. And, you know, try to get your foot in the door and get one of those classes, and then you can expand to other universities. It doesn't have to be the one that you work at. You can work for a community college or an online university.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:34]: Mhmm.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:11:35]: Sometimes they would require additional credentials, especially if you're teaching online to learn how to work the learning management system and develop modules online. I think a lot of faculty ask me for my program. They're like, oh, I can teach online. And I'm like, it's not that easy. No. You know, you have to learn how to teach online before you can teach online. And I think a lot of people are unaware of that back end work. And so if there's a way that you can do that ahead of time, get that credential, talk to your faculty center for teaching and learning or whatever it may be called your institution and ask, how do I get credentialed to teach online? If you have that already, you're a much more viable candidate to teach.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:16]: We're talking about micro credentials. We're not talking about Right.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:19]: No. No. No. Going back for another degree. No. No.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:12:21]: It would be probably an online course that you would take, a zero credit online course. Just to learn how to navigate your learning management system back end and how to engage students in an online format, things like that. And then use that to your advantage when you're asking about teaching and you might be chosen over others for that paid work.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:39]: And pedagogy is so different in online teaching versus kind of that live in person instruction.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:12:44]: Right. Learning how to be interactive with discussion boards because you're not gonna have that discussion. I do a live session every week on the chapter, and I teach the chapter. Whether or not students show up for that is a different thing, but I record them and I post them. And I think even if they don't watch them, I think students, knowing that they can, makes them feel more connected to the class, or at least I like to think so.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:07]: Well, online learning, I also feel like is the the wave of how we create access in higher education. Because of that asynchronous modeling, it allows people who have full time jobs or parenting schedules or other caregiver schedules or just unpredictable hours at their work to be able to engage in their course more effectively. I took a couple of online courses in my doctoral program, and it was fascinating how much I could learn from others through discussion boards, which was not something that I expected going into the process. Right. And then really felt by the time we got to meeting in person that I I kind of knew people and how they thought about things even though we had never had a live synchronous conversation. It's an interesting process. So when you are working with students in that online space, talk about the transition that you're seeing in their expectations for a class versus how they end up engaging.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:13:54]: I think sometimes students think that online classes are going to be easier.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:59]: They're so much harder than in person.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:14:01]: They they just think, oh, I'll just take it online, and I think that the motivation in online classes is tougher because you're not having that professor in front of you saying, this is due on Friday. Mhmm. You have to have the ability to go to the calendar and to log in to we use Canvas on a daily basis and see what's on your to do list. And have that self motivation to actually work on those assignments. So I think that's the toughest thing is, you know, I have more students fail in the online course sections than in the face to face course sections because I think that motivation is something that can't be taught and some students think that they're taking the easy way out by taking the online section.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:44]: And it's a much more self intrinsically motivated space. Right. Because oftentimes in the in person space it's a lot of work to get yourself to the class, but once you're in the class, it's easier to turn your brain on because you're in a focused time.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:14:55]: Right. And you're surrounded by like minded students, hopefully, who are wanting to do well, and when you surround yourself with others who want to do well, you rise to the occasion. Whereas in an asynchronous space, you're alone, unless you are really engaging in those discussion boards. But even if you are, sometimes it's harder to feel that sense of urgency to do well in the class when you don't see others also. What do

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:20]: you want student affairs practitioners to know, who haven't been in the classroom side about what we should be paying attention to that maybe we're not seeing in our day to day interactions with students.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:15:30]: Well, I think it's really important to know what's going on in the academic side of the house. Student affairs sometimes are siloed and don't think about student credit hour dollar generation or faculty policies or withdraw dates and things like that because they are focusing on the out of class experience. But students don't come typically to a university because of the out of class experiences. They're going because they have their major or they really like the academic rigor or they are is about the academics that they're drawn to because as we all know, they're a student leader, not a leader student. Mhmm. So academics you know, more about what's going on and the timelines, you should know when midterms are because you're going to be able to see a difference in your student. And you'll know when finals are because you might need to be more lenient with what the expectations are for your student leaders that week. So I think by being in the classroom, you're in tune with that schedule and what students are going through, and also are able to help support your students more because of your awareness.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:41]: What about in the inverse? What do you think that faculty are missing about the student affairs world, and how are you bringing that message in the other direction?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:16:48]: Yeah. I don't think faculty realize how important it is for students to be involved to develop those soft skills, which are so important in the real world regardless of what career path a student will go into. I'd like to tell students that your resume will get you the job, but your leadership skills get you the promotion. So sometimes faculty forget about those leadership skills and how important it is to be involved as a student leader so that you can gain those skills. So that when they are in the field that you are teaching in, they can rise and become stronger advocates for your field and to rise in different positions of the chain.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:26]: Any final thoughts for our listeners on the transitions between the faculty seat and the student affairs practitioner seat?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:17:34]: I would say teaching is a lot of fun. It really helps you think about the student experience in a different lens, and it's gonna make you a better practitioner practitioner if you're able to teach in the classroom because you're going to first learn about yourself and how to how to talk to students, how to interact with students, and that's going to translate into your practitioner role when you're doing workshops and presentations and even interviewing.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:00]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:06]: Thanks so much, Joe. Great to be back in the NASPA world. And recently, there has been some transformative news about the future of the Center For First Generation Student Success that I wanted to share with all of you today. Since its founding in 2017 as a joint initiative between NASPA and the Souter Foundation, the center has enjoyed great success built upon the foundation set by Eric and Deb Suter and their success with the original First Scholars model. The center has far surpassed NASPA's original goals. Now with 27 staff members, the center offers a wide array of programmatic offerings, national events, informative research, and of course, a robust and growing network of partners at 349 institutions representing 49 states and the District of Columbia. When you combine that with the professional development, research, data, networking, advocacy, and all the other resources provided by the center, and you can easily see why it's become the premier organization in the field of 1st generation student success. The success has prompted the center to take the next step in its evolution.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:15]: The Center For First Generation Student Success is becoming its own 501c3 organization. The vision and goals since inception was for NASPA to incubate the center until it was established as a leader in the field. While it will technically be a separate organization, the center will remain strategic partners with NASPA, the professional home for student affairs and an organization that is committed to cultivating student success. NASPA's long standing partnership with Eric and Deb Souter and the Souter Foundation as cofounders remains vital to the center's success. Since partnering with NASPA to create the center, the suitors commitment to the continuous growth and long term sustainability of the organization is the foundation on which the center's success is built, while their passion for creating economic opportunity and belief in the potential of 1st generation students is unparalleled. The transition to a 501c3 organization offers many benefits, providing more partner opportunities for higher education institutions, more ways for the philanthropic community to influence 1st generation success and outcomes 1st generation success and outcomes, and more opportunities for the center to drive transform to drive transformational change for institutions nationwide. Keep an eye out for some other exciting changes, some different names, but the center will continue to offer the same outstanding program services and support that you've come to expect while also growing to meet the needs of an evolving field.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:45]: Okay. We are back. Thank you, Chris, as always, for telling us what's going on in and around NASPA. There's a lot happening post conference, so I hope you've all made it home safely and you're gearing up towards the end of the year now. So we are very thrilled to be bringing you into our lightning round. I have 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. Okay.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:21:03]: These are unscripted because I is my go to karaoke song.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:16]: And we're here at the conference right now. Kevin Kruger just literally entered to the Bee Gees Stayin' Alive and, like, did a disco dance on stage. It was actually really fun. Yes. Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:21:27]: I don't know. You know, it was funny. I didn't have any women in my life who worked. Mhmm. And so that was a very interesting question. So I didn't really know what women did when I was 5. Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor? Probably doctor Joe Paul from University of Southern Mississippi. He was our vice president of student affairs and is now the president.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:48]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:21:51]: Oh, probably beginning your journey for our graduate students to learn how to navigate your 1st year in the profession. That's a NASBA publication.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:00]: Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:22:03]: This is Us. It is amazing.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:05]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:22:08]: the last year. Probably the student leadership programs knowledge community podcast, and I serve as a SLPKC co chair.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:15]: And finally, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:22:18]: I would love to give a shout out to everyone I've met at this conference and everyone who I hope to connect with afterwards.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:25]: It's been a pleasure getting to know you and hearing about the faculty side of your journey. Mostly we talk with practitioners on our show, so it's really great to get the balance on the other side. If folks would like to connect with you after the show, how can they find you?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:22:38]: Sure. My email is [email protected].

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:42]: Thank you so much, Stacey, for sharing your voice with us.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:22:45]: Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:48]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Cratney. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:29]: This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

Diversity and Inclusion as Cornerstones

In the latest episode of NASPA's SA Voices From the Field, Dr. Jill Creighton emphasizes a critical component of student affairs - the unwavering commitment to justice, equity, diversity, inclusion, and belonging (JEDIB). Our seasoned panelists, hailing from various colleges and universities, underscore the weight these principles carry in their day-to-day operations, extending to job searches, mentorship, and general support within their respective institutions.

Intentional Hiring and Representation

Several panelists, such as Aquanetta Pinkert and Dr. Adrienne White, spotlight the importance of creating an environment where everyone feels they belong. They stress intentional hiring practices that not only look at qualifications but also give weight to lived experiences, ensuring teams mirror the diversity of the student body they serve.

Challenges and Alignment with Values

The current landscape, fraught with challenges in states like Louisiana and Florida, demands an active demonstration of DEI values. Taylor Kane and Shatera Davis explain the necessity of aligning personal values with those of their employers to effectuate genuine change and advocate for marginalized communities.

Growth and Empathy in Leadership

Evolving as empathetic leaders is key. Panelists discuss the need to incorporate DEI into everyday work, language, and team collaborations, recognizing that personal growth stems from understanding and championing diverse perspectives. Leaders like Dilna Cama and Sabina Kapoor emphasize the dynamic nature of DEI and its role in shaping mentorship and advocacy within higher education.

Support Systems and Professional Development

Rachael Amaro and Stephanie Cochrane highlight support systems' centrality in fostering an inclusive environment for staff and students. Professional development tailored to understanding and serving diverse student populations is not just an additive; it is the foundation upon which equitable student support is built.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of on transitions in student affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton. She, her, hers, your SA Voices from the field host. Hello, SA Voices. This is our final bonus episode from the annual conference in which you shared with us your thoughts on the 3 conference foci areas. If you haven't listened to the other 2, go ahead and check back for the previous 2 weeks to listen to your responses there. For today's focus area, we're looking at justice, equity, diversity, inclusion, and belonging. And the question we asked all of you was how do considerations of JED IB influence your approach to job searching, mentorship, and or support in the profession of student affairs? You all had some incredible responses to this one. Please enjoy this part of the conversation, and again, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us.

Acquanetta Pinkard [00:01:04]: I'm Acquanetta Pinkard. I am from Montgomery, Alabama. I work for Alabama State University and I am a trio professional for 23 years. It influences greatly because I believe everybody matters. Everybody matters, everybody in their respective place should have an opportunity to feel free, have a sense of belonging and be comfortable for whatever time that you you're in that space. So it's huge for me.

Taylor Cain [00:01:33]: I'm Taylor Cain. I work at the University of Georgia and serve as the director of engagement leadership and service there. I think when it comes to DEI efforts, you know, trying to keep those things always at the front of your mind, recognizing my own privilege that I have and the identities that I hold, the experiences that I've been fortunate enough to have, recognizing they might extend it to everybody, whether because of identities they might hold or because they don't have the financial backing right to attend a conference as great as NASPA. But trying to keep those things in mind and make opportunities for folks to to experience what they can where they are, within the local locality of where they're at and what they're able to to do. I think when it comes to the work that we do in supporting students is recognizing how I show up, how I take the time to spend with folks to better understand their lived experience, let that inform how I approach my work. And always I think recognizing and and trying to approach it with a little bit of humility. I've always got more to learn. I mean, I certainly don't know at all.

Taylor Cain [00:02:31]: So, I mean, I think that's that's certainly gonna be important. And, you know, I think at the end of the day, trying to find an employer or a place of employment that matches your values, where you feel like you can be yourself, that you can show up authentically and do good work, and to know that that you are salient to the purpose and mission of that institution. I think for me, I've I feel really lucky to be in a place where where those values align, but I've always encouraged folks that that whatever institution you're at may not always be it. And so trying to find opportunities where you at the end of the day can go home and feel good about what you're doing. Because that buy in, it's tough to sometimes achieve, but it's so important I think to your happiness and being feeling empowered in the role that you have. And so trying to find where you can have value alignment.

Adrienne White [00:03:16]: I'm doctor Adrienne White. I'm the director of student success coaching at George Mason University, and I use sheher pronouns. So as a black woman in higher education, I think mentorship is extremely important. Personally, did not have a mentor that helped me, and guide me through these processes. I kinda had to figure it out on myself, on my own. And so, you know, that's part of the drive for me to run the success coaching program at George Mason University because I wanna be able to make sure that all students have the resources and the support that they need to succeed. I also am very intentional with who I hire on my team. I have one of the most diverse teams at George Mason University because I knew it was important that my team needed to represent the student body.

Adrienne White [00:04:02]: We're one of the most diverse institutions in the country. Therefore, my team needed to reflect that as well. And so I prioritize who I hire and making sure that it's not just, you know, on look, it's on experiences, it's on background. It's it's encompassing everything to give everybody the opportunity, to work in student affairs because it's a field of belonging and inclusion, and it really starts at the top and making sure that we're intentional in our hiring decisions.

Susan Hua [00:04:33]: Hi. My name is Susan Hua. I use sheher pronouns, and I'm the director of diversity, equity, inclusion at the Community College of Aurora, which is an MSI HSI just outside of Denver, Colorado. Diversity, equity, inclusion plays a really, really big role for me when I job search or when I think about mentorship relationships or support. I think it's the foundation of everything that we do, and I know that with the current landscape of DEI being under attack in different states, it's ever more important for us to think about ways that we're centering DEI work for employees and for students, and to really think about how we're centering equity at the heart of the work that we're doing to embrace change for students in the future and to really ensure that higher education is open access for folks.

Aileen Hentz [00:05:12]: My name is Aileen Hentz. I'm at the University of Maryland as the program director of academic and student services. This is something that has been important to me since essentially day one, even long before I started my journey within higher education. I think for me, I'm looking for different opportunities and ways to better myself professionally by constantly expanding my network of support, places and people that I can, work and collaborate with to help better help students. I think also I've now, at this point, pushed harder. I don't just accept answers to questions that I don't think are fair or just. I try to see what I can do to help push an issue further, to really try to inspire broader and bigger change. To me, it's not just enough these days to just refer a student who's struggling with something to somewhere else, like our counseling center or our multicultural advocacy group. I still do that, but I also think to myself, well, what more can I do? And so I'll try to bring things to our department level and change policy within our department. And even within our diversity council at the college level, I'll bring different issues that I see or hear from my students to them to try and really push for change on a broader scale.

Stephen Rice [00:06:27]: Stephen Rice, director of the Office of Community Expectations at the University of Southern California in Los Angeles, California. It's important to really that people are seen in your positions, and so really thinking about diversity, equity, inclusion should be a foundation and framework in all the work that we do, especially with those we hire because our students are diverse populations, and so they should see the people that they often meet with may look like them too. And so if everyone looks the same, they're not able to really provide a different unique experience and opportunity for students. Often times, there's a trust that students may have, and when they see someone that looks like them, they're able to go to those individuals and create more tools and other opportunities for them to really grow and reach and be mentored so they'd be successful students and work forward. And then it's also with the staff that we have. When you're the only one, it's tough. And so when you're able to bring a very diverse, unique experience, people feel supported, they feel seen, and they provide the same for the students that they serve.

Amy Adam [00:07:19]: Hi. This is Amy Adam and I am from the University of Missouri in Columbia. I have been a student services support manager for 20 years, serving graduate students with diversity, equity, and inclusion that does very much influence my approach to mentorship and support in my profession. We have a lot of international students that we make sure that they feel supported and connected to campus. And I know they face a lot of adversity coming from another country, especially in the Midwest, so we really strive to make sure that they feel supported. And I'm also doing some work with students with disabilities as I finish up my master's in higher ed. So that's been really, really just enjoyable and satisfying to help that population of students make sure that they feel connected to campus, that they feel that sense of belonging, and show them that they can advocate for themselves and have a voice because their voice matters. So, really, we just kinda try to keep that in our mindset in our daily work just to make sure that those students are supported.

Stephanie Cochrane [00:08:27]: Hi. I'm Stephanie Cochrane. I'm the director of student services at Northeastern University in Toronto. I'm here for NASPA for just the Sunday pre conference around graduate students. Well, one of my passion projects since I started in the role was a mentorship program, a peer mentorship program. And so thinking about our international students, they really are looking for mentorship, guidance, support, any advice from their peers, and they're more likely to listen to their peers than to us sometimes. So thinking about the DEI piece, they feel that sense of belonging when there's somebody who's been through a similar experience to them. So having them connected with a mentor from their very first semester before they even arrive in Canada is super helpful for them with not just understanding navigating the Canadian landscape, the Toronto city, the cost of living, and then, of course, their academic journey. So having that is a really helpful way to think about DEI because it's from that peer to peer support, which is sometimes missing in higher education.

Shatera Davis [00:09:28]: Hi. My name is Shatera Davis. I use sheher pronouns. I'm the director of student affairs at Northeastern in Seattle. I mean, it's embedded in my identity as a black person, as a queer person. I can't work in a space that doesn't have that as core values. And if I choose a place that's like that, then I can find really quickly that it doesn't align with my values. And so it's probably the one it's the most important thing because it's who I am visibly.

Shatera Davis [00:09:50]: And so as I move and as I navigate to different higher ed institutions, I'm very direct in my questions, like, what have they done for historically marginalized students? What do they do for staff? What did they do during the pandemic? How were they kind to their staff in this new remote era and hybrid era? Like, how are they giving their staff benefits? And, like, those kinds of things, I'm asking those intentional questions because I wanna make sure that I'm in alignment with the values. It doesn't mean the higher education institution is bad, it just means it's not right for me. And so I just make sure that it's always in alignment for me because it's personal. I mean, it's embedded in my identity as a black person, as a queer person. I can't work in a space that doesn't have that as core values. And if I choose a place that's like that, then I can find really quickly that it doesn't align with my values and so it's probably the one it's the most important thing because it's who I am visibly and so as I move and as I navigate to different higher ed institutions, I'm very direct. My question is, like, what have they done for historically marginalized students? What do they do for staff? What did they do during the pandemic? How were they kind to their staff in this new remote era and hybrid era? Like, how are they giving their staff benefits? And, like, those kinds of things, I'm asking those intentional questions because I wanna make sure that I'm in alignment with the values. It doesn't mean the higher education institution is bad, it just means it's not right for me, and so I just make sure that it's always in alignment for me because it's personal.

Andy Wiegert [00:11:12]: I am Andy Wiegert, director of graduate student affairs, Arts and Sciences, Washington University in St. Louis. Yes, this has to actually, in my opinion, start from the moment we are interviewing candidates for positions and bringing people to our campus is that everything should be looked at through the lens of equity and the lens of inclusion. And so from the start, my stance, our stance is to be asking those questions upfront. So how do you define anti racism? How do you define things like this? Will you be a fit to be an actual mentor who recognizes this need for diversity? So we're doing that at the very, very early stages. That then translates to training, development, things like that, but if we're not doing it out of the gates, then we're gonna run into problems down the road.

Scott Peska [00:12:01]: Hi. Scott Peska, Waubonsee Community College, Assistant Provost of Student Services. I think in all three of these areas, job searching, mentorship, and support for the profession of student affairs, there's probably nothing more important than equity and injustice and looking at place that you're looking at to the the values of the institution reflect what your values are and you know and so as a student affairs professionals something that has come to my heart is just making sure that we can care for all of our students and that we can try to help them succeed no matter what their background and making sure that we can put the necessary supports there. And so if the institution doesn't have those same values, we gotta be able to look at that. And so I've always looked at it when job searching. I think when mentoring, talking to individuals, making sure that I'm reaching out to be able to provide those kind of supports all across the way.

Dilna Cama [00:12:48]: Dilna Cama. I am a director within student life at the Ohio State University, and I am part of the off campus and commuter knowledge community. I think that is part of our everyday life. It has to be something that we have ingrained not in just the work that we do, but the language we use, how we work with our teams, making sure that they not only understand where their perspective is coming from, but how that impacts other individuals on a team, in a community, whatever that might look like.

Sabina Kapoor [00:13:21]: My name is Sabina Kapoor, and I'm currently a full time doctoral student with Capella University. I spent over 20 years in higher education as a staff within student affairs, student success, and academic affairs. So as I've progressed in my career, I've focused more on staff so that they can better serve students. And I wanna go in deep with that, so that's why I'm pursuing the doctorate relationship between the organization and the employee. I'm gonna reference Pamela Hayes' model. If you've ever the acronym is ADDRESSING, and so it's looking at different different categories from age to disability to religion to sexual orientation, sexual gender identification, etcetera. And so all these different categories, a person could potentially be, what Pamela Hayes says is oppressed in some categories and privileged in others. So, for example, as a minority woman who's heterosexual, I'm privileged in the sexual orientation, but I'm repressed in the gender category and also in the ethnic and cultural category.

Sabina Kapoor [00:14:32]: So it's interesting because idea of minoritized is not all one side, you are minoritized or you're not. It's kind of looking at different facets of that. So I say that because I use that as a premise with anything. So when I'm looking for a job, when I'm mentoring others, I try to remember inclusivity and look at things from the other's perspective. And I'll be honest, my oppressed areas have been like traditional ones. So with emerging ones, and I'm in a privileged position, it's really interesting. It's I had to see things from a privileged lens, and that was an interesting learning experience because I'd never been in that situation. So I say that because it's all shapes and influences all of this, how I mentor, how I support others and advocate. My last position, I was a dean for student success at a dual designated HBU and HSI. And I think advocacy was probably the top thing that I was doing while I was there. So so all that to say, DEI, it's not just my premise, it's who I am. So it really influences everything that what I do in my career.

Carlie Weaver [00:15:44]: Hello. I am Carlie Weaver with Rose Hulman Institute of Technology. I'm a programs coordinator for the student activities in Union office. I did one of my assistantships with University of South Alabama during my grad school career, and so I did that with the Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Office, and it's something that I like to think about a lot when I'm making decisions, especially with such a student facing role. I like to think of diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging before I make pretty much any choice because I know that it is so influential in students' lives. So, even when I'm thinking about, like, what kind of programming to bring to campus, I'm thinking about the different populations that we have and what is of interest to those populations.

Roxanne Wright Watson [00:16:33]: Hi. My name is Roxanne Wright Watson. I'm from Lehigh Carbon Community College in Pennsylvania, and I'm happy to be here. I think it is not a matter of influencing because the bills of that will be paid. So so we need to make sure that it's for me, 1st and foremost, it is I think I just need to go to work, do what I gotta do, and go home. But having equity, diversity, and all of that within the institution is an added thing that now gives me help me to broaden my scope, help me to blossom, to bloom where I'm at. So it is an institution that support these values and goals, then I am more open. I give more of my self than it would be if I am just at an institution that is just not supportive of these values.

Carla Ortega Santori [00:17:34]: My name is Carla Ortega Santore. I work at Rice University. I am the strategic initiatives manager at the Doerr Institute For New Leaders at Rice University. And my job is really about helping students elevate their leadership capacity and to also elevate the capacity of all campuses to do really great leader developments in education. I'm actually from Puerto Rico, so whenever I'm looking for a job or when I'm looking for a mentor, I'm looking to see other familiar faces in the room, like, I'm seeing where I'm represented, seeing the kinds of students we work with. So that that's one thing I I usually look for. I also look for concrete ways, examples. I guess another way that influences my day to day professional life is when I also see I'm a IO psychologist by education, so I also look for research that's represented in that. So any evidence of impact, measurable outcomes that we see that are related to people of color and other underrepresented minorities is really important when I and I'm looking for any evidence based practices to apply, to implement with students, or for any support in the profession.

Rachael Amaro [00:18:55]: I'm Rachael Amaro. I'm the admissions and academic advisor for the Department of Educational Leadership within the College of Education at Cal State Fullerton. I think that, I mean, for sure with the mentorship piece, it's I have had a hard time finding people that I could rely on when I first started, but I think that's made me a little more active in trying to be a mentor to others. And I really appreciate the the trust that I can build with the team that I work with. You know, I have I have one immediate colleague in my department, but then all of us in in our college are on the same floor of the building we're in, and so it's been really great to get to know everybody and to make the time and the space for each other, and then because I've been there, for sure I've been on campus a lot longer than a lot of them, and so trying to let them know, you know, sort of what's what's going on, how to navigate things, especially because a lot of them, it's their first time working at a university, and I think it's really so important because most of us happen to be Latinx that a lot of the new hires have been, and so it's been really important to me to let them know things even about making sure sure they're putting money in their retirement, making sure they're doing these things that we just didn't necessarily always get taught. And even things as simple as, hey, when you're taking a vacation day, like, really take a vacation day. Use your time because you need to. Because we're so used to not being told how to navigate that from people in a supervisory positions who aren't used to the diversity that's coming up into the field. And so I think that's a really important part. Again, we talk about the hidden curriculum a lot for the students, but there's a hidden side for staff as well. And so when we come from families and parents who worked in factories and had a very different way of living and working, we also have to learn how to navigate these systems that we're now working in. And I think it's important to be able to share that with them so that they don't feel isolated or alienated and they feel like we're in this together.

Christine Wilson [00:21:00]: I'm Christine Wilson. I am in student affairs at UCLA. I have two roles. 1 is as the executive director for academic partnerships and the other is the program director for our masters in student affairs program. I think that justice, equity, diversity, and inclusion are at the forefront of everything that I do. It's a principle of our organization. It's part of the mission of our school of education where I'm program director and I teach. Our campus is incredibly diverse and if we don't consider that, then we are not serving our students. So if that's not something people are on board with, then they should not come to UCLA.

Olivia Ruggieri [00:21:42]: Hi there. My name is Olivia Ruggieri. I'm the associate director of administration operations for Northeastern University Seattle campus. I grew up in Pennsylvania, went to college in Florida, and came out here in 2013, but I've been working for the university since 2018. Well, my area, while we are definitely not HR, we do support searches on our campus. So one of my staff members, he will assist hiring managers in doing an inch initial evaluation of candidates and then help them design their searches. But recognizing that while we've made improvements in this area, we're not doing it as well as we could be. This summer, we're gonna be establishing a group that will ultimately create a set of DEI hiring standards, and we wanna make sure that there's strong representation from all types of folks on our campus, faculty, staff, and hopefully students, to ensure that we're hiring in the most equitable way. And I have to say that, like, since this has become a focus of mine, I look at job descriptions differently and just what I've learned about how to hire equitably and certain phrases raise flags for me because I realized that they may not represent welcomeness to all. So it's just become part of my practice and how I evaluate different opportunities.

Christle Foster [00:23:04]: Hi. My name is Christle Foster and I'm from Chesapeake College located on the Eastern Shore of Maryland in Y Mills. When it comes to my staff, because of the work that we do, so student focused, definitely diversity, equity, and inclusion is a part of that, especially with the populations we serve in Trio. That's definitely what we do as part of our mission. So when it comes to choosing staff and helping staff go through professional development, that's some of the things that we always look at. Whether it's in terms of ethnicity, accessibility, or ability, or unabilities in regards to education. We recently did, training with the University of Delaware who has a special program that's focused on students who are new or divergent, and it was exemplary. What they are doing there with a grant is just amazing. So we were able to get some information from them on how to help our students who are neurodivergent, or some of them are on spectrum, so to speak.

Nathalie Waite Brown [00:24:03]: My name is Nathalie Waite Brown. I am the assistant dean of students and director for graduate student life at Stevens Institute of Technology located in Hoboken, New Jersey. I think I approach those areas first and foremost from a personal perspective, notwithstanding all of the visible identities that I carry, I'm a 1st generation student, parents who migrated to the US in the early seventies. So I work with a large international student population, and I take those identities very much in leading how I work with them and being able to understand the potential need that's in front of them. And that runs the gamut. It's not limited to who I am, but also having a level of empathy and support in guiding the work and the resources that students need.

Dae'lyn Do [00:24:50]: My name is Dae'Lyn Do. I use sheher pronouns, and I am the associate director for the women in science and engineering residence program at the University of Michigan. And I am coming into the position of the WISA KC co chair. I think specifically when it comes to mentorship, something I always take into consideration that I do try to do myself, but I also encourage my students to do is to seek out a variety of different mentors who have different lived experiences. And so not just, I think we oftentimes talk about finding mentors who look like us or who share similar identities with us, which is really important, but I also think it's important to seek out folks who maybe don't because we learn different perspectives and different ways of looking at things that we might not if we just rely on the people who have the same lived experiences as us. And so, I think when it comes to thinking through our own efforts of justice and equity, our mentors are the people that we learn from and so trying to diversify our own support network is the best way to kind of get those different experiences and support.

Natalie DeRosa [00:25:55]: So my name is Natalie DeRosa, and I'm from Lehigh Carbon Community College in Schnecksville, Pennsylvania. I would say that those two terms, justice and equity, are central when I am doing job searching. Not only how the organization embraces those concepts, but also the person who is my direct support, that they are equity minded and justed justice minded themselves makes or breaks whether or not I feel like that organization is the right organization for me.

Dan Volchek [00:26:25]: Dan Volchek, assistant dean of student success at Harvard Griffin Grad School of Arts and Sciences. I look at DEI as a very important piece of dealing with my job search, mentorship, and support. I try to look at what we're doing with both our faculty, our staff, and our students in the DEI world and making sure we're addressing all of those issues and challenges that others may be facing that I may not have faced to make sure that I'm dealing with DEI in a positive manner.

Vaughn Calhoun [00:27:00]: Vaughn Calhoun, Seton Hall University, hehim. Yeah. I think looking for places and people with high social emotional intelligence, knowing that any place that I would think about or people I wanna engage with, that there's a high sense of empathy to help build those lasting relationships. Because I think without the empathy, it's it's hard to really move to higher levels of conversation. So if you could find that in organization and people, you found something really good.

Darlene Robinson [00:27:37]: My name is Darlene Robinson. I'm the RISE gen 1 director for Seton Hall University. I think it influences the career in the sense that I want to be on a level playing field. I wanna be considered as a person that is capable of certain things rather than just basing it off of filling a quota. I think it is fair enough to accept people for who they are and get to know them for them them as a person first before not even before, but without passing judgment based on certain discriminatory practices. Because in doing that, you get to know the person first and understand that we're all connected in some way.

Miguel Angel Hernandez [00:28:20]: Hello. My name is Miguel Angel Hernandez. I am the associate vice president and dean of students at San Francisco State University. What attracted me to student affairs to begin with is my curiosity about humans and human beings. And what has sustained me 24 years in this profession at this point in my life has been the curiosity that continues about the people I get to interact with, the students that continue to change and evolve and allow me to grow, and in many ways, stay young because we have to keep up, not keep up in a bad way, but just it is never a dull moment learning from our students, learning from our colleagues. And so when I think about DEI work, I think about my curiosity about life and how we evolve as people. I think about my own journey, how different I am today than when I first moved into my residence hall. I think about the beautiful places I've been able to visit and serve and work and the stories of those people, those places, those moments in time.

Miguel Angel Hernandez [00:29:17]: And so for me, DEI work is not about difference. It is about the stories of people, the stories of places that we get to visit and explore and learn. And so for me, I really think about that when I am mentoring, coaching, supervising, engaging with students. I think about it in my own search. As I consider opportunities, I think about what do I bring into spaces, what can I gain from spaces, And I use those thoughts to formulate questions for either the individuals that are asking me to consider a position and or while I am engaging in the search process? And so those types of aspects of diversity, equity, and inclusion, I think, keep that work very centered, very front, and create opportunities for us to continue again learning and growing in our profession.

David Chao [00:30:07]: Hello. My name is David Chao. My pronouns are hehim. I serve as the director of IT for student affairs at the University of Pittsburgh, and I'm also the chair of the technology knowledge community. As a first generation Asian American, you know, it's really important for me. I think coming to higher education from the corporate world, I think I've seen and been exposed to a very healthy environment where we're trying to be more open to all ideas and diversity is really, really important. It's strange because being an Asian American, as a minority, you think I'd be more sensitive to that, but I guess I didn't really always see that. And so I feel like my eyes are much more open to it, and my ability to help others and mentor and foster a collaborative and diverse environment, which is a challenge in our society today.

Melinda Stoops [00:30:47]: Hi. I am Melinda Stoops. I serve as the associate vice president for student health and wellness at Boston College. I think even though I've been in student affairs for a long time, I feel like this is one area that I consider a growth area. I am a middle aged white woman, and my background and my experiences certainly are related to my identity in in many ways. And I feel like the longer I'm in higher ed, the more I'm interacting with increasingly a more diverse student body, the more I have to learn. And so I just feel like as I do my work, whether it's being supervised or supervising, whether it's mentoring or being mentored, I feel like increasingly I really focus on being open to not making assumptions either about the other person, but also not making assumptions that even if I'm in a mentoring role that I have all the answers. That really, I have a lot to learn as well and taking time to really understand the person I'm working with and where they're coming from and their perspectives and sort of maximizing the impact we can both have on each other.

Derek Grubb [00:31:54]: Derek Grubb, Dean of Enrollment Management for Red Rocks Community College in Colorado. In terms of justice and equity, one of the biggest things I've been trying to do lately is really recognize to avoid agendas. And not so much agendas and meetings, but agendas in terms of having a predetermined outcome and really accepting people where they are and being able to really just sort of embrace those opportunities for challenging conversations and looking for new perspectives. So up on my wall right now is the, no agendas policy.

Matt Imboden [00:32:28]: My name is Matt Imboden. I use the he, him pronouns. I serve as the chief student services officer in the School of Business at Wake Forest University in North Carolina. And, for the past few years, I've also been chairing the administrators and graduate and professional student services knowledge community for NASPA. All those things I want. The funny thing about diversity, equity, inclusion, and justice work is it's one in the same with overall student success, sense of belonging, it's a 100% connected to student well-being. And so, sometimes I think we create these bifurcations and divisions and we create this little bucket and label it, you know, diversity programming. But especially as I think there's a lot of renewed pressures on those roles and leaders with the people that are exponents of those values that are institutions. It's even more important to just talk about the ways in which, no, our ability to recruit and retain students is one in the same with being good at that work. And for some reason, I think it takes on a life of its own or becomes a bit of a specter when people try to apply those labels in only certain places. But if we wanna win as institutions in the 21st century in the marketplaces we work in, you gotta figure out how all the things you just mentioned apply to your day in day out work.

Evette Castillo Clark [00:33:36]: Evette Castillo Clark, vice president for student life and dean of students at Lewis and Clark College, Portland, Oregon. So this is super important and critical because with job searching, with mentoring, and our profession, it is really important for us to have diverse professionals, diverse thinking, embracing different perspectives because it makes us rich, and it makes the whole organization stronger. So in our recruitment procedures, one of my things is that I want to make sure that whoever is, for example, sharing a search, that you've worked every angle to make sure that you have racial diversity, gender diversity, regional diversity, just a broad spectrum of backgrounds to get to the semifinalist pool and then also to try to get to the finalist pool. You make every effort to do that, and I employ that same model with student leadership. So in elections or looking at who do we want on our student employment to employ as student workers, orientation leaders, RAs. You want that to be a cross section because if you're doing community building work, you have to have leadership that looks like the people that you serve.

Madeline Frisk [00:34:48]: Hello. My name is Madeline Frisk. I work at Portland State University. I'm the coordinator of student government relations and advisor to Greek life. So I work with our student government, all of the committees and groups within that, as well as 4 strong and mighty small Greek life groups as well. I would say I especially think of diversity, equity, and inclusion in terms of how I support students and show up. At PSU, we have a lot of non traditional students. We're also becoming an emerging HSI and Anapisa institution. So I think about how I'm showing up and my identities, how I can better serve students, and I try to stay well informed, read, do a lot of research and background work so that I'm showing up for them and also try to provide them all the training that I can. It also helps to have other coworkers and people you can rely on to kind of fill in any gaps too. So I think that's really helped as well having people and allies in your life that you can rely on as well as, good coworkers and team as well as kind of with the support in the profession of student affairs. I recently started a book club at our institution within our LGBT affinity employee resource group and that's really helped me to kind of also build even more support for myself in this work and also people who I know I can rely on that can be additional supports for my students. So that's been really great.

Gene Zdziarski [00:36:15]: This is Gene Zdziarski. I'm vice president for student affairs at DePaul University. I think it's been one of the things that I find in my career trying to find a place where that sense of diversity and inclusion really is embraced and a part of things. I work at a Catholic university, and a lot of people have different opinions about the Catholic faith and everything else, but what I have to say is when I interviewed for the job there, one of the things I wanted to make sure was that, again, there was a sense of diversity, appreciation, and openness. We had an LGBTQA center. We had, LGBTQ studies. We have embraced other faiths and people, and that was extremely important to me. And I think something that perhaps people don't always look at when they look at a faith based institution, but I think you'll find that, again, that's an important piece of higher education, an important piece of our work in my career in student affairs.

Lyza Liriano [00:37:10]: Hello. My name is Lyza Liriano. I currently serve as an area coordinator at DePaul University in Housing and Residence Life. Originally, I am from Brooklyn, New York. It influences it a it a lot. I'm a queer woman of color, and so I want to make sure that the spaces that I walk into are going to be spaces where I feel safe and where there are students that look like me so that they know that they can come to me. My identity is very intersectional, and I think that that's one of my favorite parts of my identity, and there's been spaces that I've stepped into where I've had to choose, okay, am I going to focus on being a black woman today? Am I going to focus on being a queer woman today? And so creating those spaces of you can be all of that at once. And when I'm job searching, that is something that I'm very intentional about asking is what work do you do apart from sending students to the Black Student Center or the LGBTQ Student Center? What is your department actually doing to help these students? And so I also want it to be just someone that students can come to because I've been in spaces where I'm sometimes the only woman of color, and so I wanna make sure my students know, like, I'm creating space for myself so that in, you know, years to come when my students are out in the field, hopefully in student affairs, they also are going to have multiple seats at the table not just the one.

Jackie Cetera [00:38:28]: Jackie Cetera. I use sheher pronouns, and I serve as the director of residential education at Bucknell University in Pennsylvania. I find it's all in how people show up in their day to day and what they're doing to not only support students on our campus, but also employees, both faculty and staff. When we talk about the sense of belonging, I believe that it's really important for us as leaders, as our institutions to make sure that our faculty and staff have a sense of belonging so they can show up and do good work and provide opportunities and spaces for our students to also find that sense of belonging.

Lisa Landreman [00:39:15]: My name is Lisa Landerman. I'm the vice president for student affairs at Willamette University in Salem, Oregon. Similarly, I stay abreast of current issues. I am doing my own work through institutes, 1 on 1 consulting and every opportunity I can to talk with other colleagues around best practices, most effective strategies. I I also really try to center relationships so that there's this there's the book learning and research of our trends, but then there's also every individual's gonna have their own experience and their multiple identities that are gonna shape their experience at our particular institution. So, how I handle that and manage kind of issues of justice and equity, whether it's around language, practices, programs, initiatives in Oregon is different than when I was in Rhode Island, is different when I was at the University of Michigan. And so I think context matters, listening to our staff, again, creating space, trying to support affinity relationships for where that matters to people, sure that we are constantly looking at our policies, practices through an equity lens. And so every time we're writing a new policy, we look at that lens.

Lisa Landreman [00:40:27]: At least once a year, we take a moment to reflect on new programs, policies, or practices to ask questions. Who's at this event? Who does this impact? Who who's included? Whose voice was at the table when we created it? So all those kinds of checklists that come with looking at the subtle ways that the work that we do might impact people that of groups we're not members for some ways. Celebrating and recognizing heritage month's accomplishments of diverse folks in in our both in our community. I think in hiring, we do a lot to look at what biases do we bring, what biases we have that might not be about race, but that biases we have about the field or the job that might have an impact on people from different racial groups or identity groups. Right? And so it isn't always so overt, so I think doing our work around. Before every search, we do we we really come to the table and say, so what are our biases about? And we look at a resume. And, you know, we really scrutinize our job descriptions to make sure do are all those qualifications really necessary? Is that many years of experience really necessary? Are we really waiting what can really be learned on the job, and what really do people have to have experience coming? So those are those are all ways that we subtly sort of can bias our searches. Those are just some I could go on and on, but I I think the important point about this is that especially in this time, regardless of what's happening with legislators, we as individuals can shape our own practice to demonstrate where these values matter regardless of what offices aren't allowed to be in my campus. That's still a battle we need to fight. And just because that battle's being fought, doesn't mean it stops us from doing centering that as an important value.

Jackie Yun [00:42:08]: Hi. I'm Jackie Yun. I take the she series, and I serve as the executive director of the Harvard Griffin GSAS Student Center. I think it impacts everything. So I really am somebody who believes that DEI is not just held with folks that have that in their title, but it's really the responsibility of everyone at an institution to be considering that. And I think about this from my own experiences, whether or not I feel like I'm included in a community, but also in my management, my hiring, the way that I scaffold spaces for students, and so I think it's really important work.

Leanna Fenneberg [00:42:44]: Hello. This is Leanna Fenenberg. I'm the incoming chief student affairs officer at Duquesne University. Oh my gosh. Isn't that a big question? Right? I mean, I feel like for most of us, for many of us in student affairs, DEI work is at the core of our values and what we do and why we do it. So it's to professional searches, to professional development, to building a community of support for our students and for our staff. And so it is central to everything we do.

Jake Murphy [00:43:16]: Jake Murphy. I'm the director of prospective students services at OSU Institute of Technology, and I am over all recruitment and retention efforts at the university. So for me, it's probably a really big thing, but it's really tough in the state that I'm at because there's a whole mess concerning DEI work and justice and equity and inclusion work. So for me personally, it's a big factor in where I choose to go to work. I wanna make sure that the environment that I'm at is focused on making sure that the whole student is taken care of, but being place bound sometimes it makes it a little bit difficult. But also creating those environments is also really key and making sure that students feel supported, that they have a sense of community, and are able to be able to go through their out their student journey is extremely important. And mentorship for us, especially in, like, peer mentorship is very important to be able to create those spaces.

Larry Pakowski [00:44:13]: Larry Pakowski. I'm the vice president for student engagement, inclusion, and success at Aims Community College in Greeley, Colorado. I think we've gotta to look at the students we serve and at the end of the day that's one of the things that we want to be reflective of who we serve but we also want to embrace the the variety of different diverse cultures and backgrounds and things like that. Not only our students have, but our employees should have as well.

Jillaine Zenkelberger [00:44:37]: Hi. I'm doctor Jillaine Zenkelberger. I am the program coordinator over at Graduate Student Life at the University of Notre Dame. I think in my approach to all of these things, having the ability to touch base with a lot of people from different I don't have a master's in higher ed and things like that. Being able to see the diversity in our different backgrounds both educationally, but also racially, ethnically, etcetera, has been super important to me. And I think we bring all these different things to the table, and it's really been great to learn from everyone and their backgrounds of whatever they've done in their past lives, because I know all of us have many past lives sometimes. They're all bringing something, like, super important that I think is really invigorating student affairs because I work with a lot of people who's had past lives and they're really changing things in a lot of cool ways.

Kristen Merchant [00:45:48]: Hi everyone. I'm Kristen Merchant. I am from Rose Hulman Institute of Technology. I am the associate director of the Union and Student Activities Office there and also the director of our lead programs. With job searching, I think about whenever I'm doing my hiring actually for orientation. We always put an effort into putting a cohesive team together of a variety of different backgrounds and interests and majors and all the different ways that diversity can come into play. So that way, all of our new incoming students can see a face that they recognize, which is really, really important in the DEI world and is something that we always consider in any type of our hiring practices and any type of programming that I do is making sure that there is someone that they feel like they can go to.

Joe Lizza [00:46:35]: My name is doctor Joe Lizza. I'm the director of the Chamberlain Student Center and campus activities at Rowan University in New Jersey. It really is the idea that you want an institution that is respectful for others, supportive of others because you never know when you might be on that opposite side of the situation. So you might be in an institution or in a job role that you feel very comfortable, supported and you feel like you belong and it's very easy to kinda based on a different supervisor or a different university leadership, that could shift. I always look for places that really are respectful, very forward thinking, and they don't only just preach what their beliefs are and their values, but they also put them into action. And that's kinda reassuring to me as a professional in higher education for both for myself and my colleagues. I'm realizing that it's a good place to work, a place that will be supportive of life changes and different situations.

Joshua Allred [00:47:32]: My name's Joshua Allred. I work at Louisiana State University in the College of Agriculture as their manager of student services. That's challenging. It's certainly something that is on my mind constantly. I think living in Louisiana and in the South where there's lots of legislation recently, sort of very much anti DEI has been a challenge. So I'm not in a place where I can kind of up and move, unfortunately. I would in some ways, I kinda wish I could. So being on a campus and in a state where there's lots of uncertainty around, like, what does DEI look like in our state has been a challenge.

Joshua Allred [00:48:01]: And so we are very much in a place of kind of waiting to see what's gonna happen next. And again, I think finding folks where folks and groups of people where you can hold onto and feel safe and find little beacons of hope is helpful. It's not always there, but I'm a supervisor for an LGBTQIA plus organization in the College of Agriculture and that's been really helpful for me and something that I really knew and renewed importance in. And so that's kind of what I look towards is like the people and and the small things here and there. But certainly a consideration is just tough. It's tough when you can't move.

Joshua Allred [00:48:38]: Well, one of the things that I really enjoy about my job is being able to support and work with students, and those are all students, ethnicities, genders. Just being able to support those students in coming to NASPA and being able to learn from experts on how to best support students no matter who they are, no matter where they're from. So at Texas A&M, they give me the opportunity to go to professional development. They give me the opportunity to collaborate with my peers around the country. And during those times, that's what I wanna do. I'm always making sure that I'm talking to the experts in the field to make sure that I'm doing the best to support our students.

Judy Traveis [00:49:28]: Hi, everyone. I'm Judy Traveis. I'm the associate dean for the Graduate Student Success Center at the University of Florida. Again, from Florida, we've had DEI impacted, although we all believe in the diversity and what it brings to our campus and the inclusion and and equity piece. I believe institutions that do it well and thread it through all factors of the university, you can really see it. It's tangible and that in as I job search or look for other careers, if I should move institutions, that is something that's very important and I hold as a value in my heart to make sure that that it's not just on a website, that you can actually physically see how it's threaded through by the way the community and culture is on that campus.

Katie Caponera [00:50:23]: I'm Katie Caponera, director of student life at Harvard Divinity School. A commitment to all of those tenants, particularly justice, is really important to me personally and professionally. I'm fortunate to work at an institution where that is a key aspiration and goal of our community, and it's something that I would continue to foreground in looking at other types of institutions or future colleagues or partners. It's making sure all of our students feel that it's a space where they can thrive and be their full selves is of paramount importance and continuing to remain dedicated to those efforts, especially admit so much turmoil, I think, is underlines their importance more so.

Kathy Dilks [00:51:11]: My name is Kathy Dilks, and I am the director of graduate student and post doctoral affairs at the Icahn to create a team that is not only diverse, but diverse of thoughts. I think it's our responsibility to make certain that we are leaning into DEIB, and I try my hardest to make certain that I am never an impediment in that future.

Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:51:47]: Julie Payne Kirchmeier, vice president for student success for the university Indiana University. It's not really a system. It's a multi campus university, but we can say Indiana University System if that's easier for folk to kind of place the role. It's interesting the word considerations. How do considerations of, show up for me, good and bad, before I can lean into anything else. And I think that's a step we don't often do, particularly and we just jump into, oh, oh, well, of course, you know, Jedi work is important, and of course we're gonna do that. But because we don't stop and pause pause and think and unlearn a lot of what we know, we end up rushing to action so quickly, we cause more harm. And so I think that first step for me, because the question is influence your, is to pause, think, and remember that I have to be okay with who I am, good and bad, take the steps to do my own work, and then bring others into the fold, like, okay.

Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:52:54]: What are the resources we need in meaningful ways so that the work can move through always a lens of equity. So being an equity minded organization, human, professional, friend, partner, all the different components of your life.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:10]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:51]: This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.