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In this episode, Emmanuel Ogebe, Esq. shares the story of his imprisonment and torture, how decades of advocacy have led to a hard-won sense of vindication, and why Romans 13 is not a blank check for abusive power. We explore the uncomfortable mirrors between the governance failures he’s fought abroad and what he now sees in the United States, including the church’s habit of canonizing political figures rather than lamenting harm. Emmanuel offers a grounded theology of government that serves the common good, practical discernment when Caesar is corrupt, and a stubborn hope for weary hearts.

Content Note

This episode includes references to torture, terrorism, and political violence.

Call to Action

If this conversation helped you think more clearly about faith, justice, and hope, share the episode with a friend and leave a rating. To support Emmanuel’s current work or learn more about his advocacy, visit the links in the episode description.

About Emmanuel
Emmanuel Ogebe, Esq., is an award-winning international human rights lawyer based in Washington, D.C., who has played a role in shaping US Congressional and foreign policy toward Nigeria. 

Mr. Ogebe has been a guest speaker at university campuses across the US and on radio and TV programs around the world, including CNN, Fox, Al Jazeera, BBC, the Geneva Summit, the United Nations, the World Bank, and the Canadian Parliament. His decades of advocacy led to the US designating Boko Haram as a foreign terrorist organization (2013), Nigeria as a Country of Particular Concern (2020), and the International Criminal Court Prosecutor’s determination of crimes against humanity in Nigeria (2020), among other achievements. He was consulted by the Clinton (2000) and Bush (2003) administrations during their visits to Nigeria. 

He currently serves as Special Counsel for the “Justice for Jos” Project, advocating for and assisting survivors/victims of terror. Mr Ogebe is a recipient of several awards, including from President Obama (2009), the Darfur Women Action Group (2016), Diaspora groups in the US, as well as US States and local authorities, with citations and recognitions in Florida, Arkansas, and New Jersey, amongst others. Emmanuel Ogebe received a Diaspora award from the Nigerian government this year as an outstanding citizen abroad for his humanitarian work and development of the law. The award was bestowed at Nigeria’s presidential villa, where he was once a political prisoner of a military dictatorship, on the 29th anniversary of his captivity. He came into exile in the U.S. a year after his imprisonment.

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In this interview, I talk with Tarrin Anderson, MA, LAC-T, who discusses the journey of LGBTQIA+ individuals healing from religious trauma and finding their spirituality. Tarrin shares insights into the effects of religious harm, the challenges of leaving a religious community, and the importance of self-acceptance and embodiment in the healing process. The conversation highlights practical approaches to fostering healing, reclaiming identity, and creating safe, supportive spaces for LGBTQIA+ individuals in spiritual contexts.

Tarrin is a Licensed Associate Counselor-Therapist and a certified Spiritual Director with a Master of Arts in Depth Psychology, specializing in Jungian and Archetypal Studies. Passionate about the Soul, Divine Union, and the power of imagination, Tarrin works with individuals seeking to embody their true selves by connecting deeply with their inner world through dreams, intuition, and creative expression. With a background in spiritual direction, religious/spiritual trauma, Jungian depth psychology, and LGBTQIA+ issues, Tarrin provides a compassionate and transformative space for personal growth and healing. A past president of Phoenix Friends of C.G. Jung, Tarrin is dedicated to helping others align with their most authentic selves and share their unique gifts with the world.

You can connect with Tarrin and inquire about working with her here:

Website
Psychology Today

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In this episode, we sit down with Eugene Kim, the visionary behind the New Wine Collective, a movement dedicated to empowering individuals to co-create their own spiritual communities wherever they are. Eugene shares his passion for reimagining what it means to be the Church in today's world, emphasizing the importance of connection, participation, and grassroots spirituality. Join us as we explore how New Wine Collective reshapes people's experience and engagement with their faith.

Eugene Kim is a spiritual innovator and the founder of New Wine Collective. With a deep commitment to fostering authentic community, Eugene has dedicated his work to challenging the status quo of traditional church structures. His vision is to create spaces where people can feel seen, heard, and actively involved in their spiritual journeys.

For more information on New Wine Collective and Eugene Kim’s work, visit New Wine Collective. Or read the New Wine Collective White Paper.

Other Ways to Connect:
NWC Instagram
Eugene Instagram
NWC FB Page

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In this episode, I talk with Dr. Mark Gregory Karris, Ph.D., about his book The Diabolical Trinity: Healing Religious Trauma from a Wrathful God, Tormenting Hell, and a Sinful Self. In his book, Dr. Karris explores the profound impact of religious trauma and offers a path to healing from the damaging effects of fear-based religious teachings. He delves into the psychological wounds inflicted by the concepts of a wrathful God, eternal damnation, and inherent sinfulness, providing insights and therapeutic strategies to help individuals reclaim their spiritual and emotional well-being.

Dr. Karris is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist who specializes in helping individuals, couples, and families experience healing and wholeness. He offers a holistic, integrative, and experiential approach, drawing from various therapeutic methods, including psychodynamic therapy, internal family systems, and Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT). With extensive training in EFT, Dr. Karris helps couples connect on a deeply emotional level to create lasting and meaningful relationships. His compassionate and personalized approach ensures that therapy is tailored to meet each client's unique needs, fostering a safe and supportive environment for growth and transformation.

A few of his other books:

• Religious Refugees: (De)Constructing Toward Spiritual and Emotional Healing
• Divine Echoes: Reconciling Prayer With the Uncrontrolling Love of God
• Season of Heartbreak: Healing for the Heart, Brain, and Soul

Ways to connect:
Website
Instagram

*Note: You'll hear me say that the book was released this year. This epidode was recorded in October 2023, so at the time of recording it had only been out for a few months.

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In this episode, I talk with Dr. Thomas Jay Oord, Ph.D., about his book The Death of Omnipotence and Birth of Amipotence.

Dr. Oord introduces us to a new word, amipotence, which means "all-loving." In this discussion, he makes an argument for an "all-loving" uncontrolling God rather than the controlling "all-powerful" God that most of us grew up with.

A few of his other books:

• Open and Relational Theology: An Introduction to Life-Changing Ideas
• God After Deconstruction

Ways to connect:
Website
Newsletter
X (Twitter)
Facebook
Instagram

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In this episode, I talk with Dr. Janyne McConnaughey, Ph.D., about her book Trauma in the Pews: The Impact on Faith and Spiritual Practices.

Dr. McConnaughey reminds us that even if the religious environment isn't the cause of our trauma, the way they handle the trauma we carry is just as important to our healing.

Her Other Books:

• BRAVE: A Personal Story of Healing Childhood Trauma
• Jeannie's BRAVE Childhood: Behavior & Healing through the Lens of Attachment & Trauma
• A Brave Life: Survival, Resilience, Faith and Hope after Childhood Trauma

Ways to connect:
Website
Substack
Instagram
X (Formerly Twitter)
Facebook
Email: [email protected]

Intro & Outro Music: Mastering the Art by Big Score Audio

If you or someone you know is struggling with mental health or having a mental health emergency, you can call the national emergency line at 988.

You can reach out to me at: [email protected]

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In this introductory episode, Bruce discusses what the name Sacred Unrest means and his hopes for this podcast.

Bruce provides definitions for Religious Trauma using information from:
Dan Koch, Spiritual Harm & Abuse Scale (SHAS) Clinical Screener
The Reclamation Collective, Religious Trauma

Intro & Outro Music: Mastering the Art by Big Score Audio

If you or someone you know is struggling with mental health or having a mental health emergency, you can call the national emergency line at 988.

You can reach out to me at: [email protected]