Saving the World From Bad Ideas

Is a world powered by clean energy possible without nuclear power? 

In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas sits down with Julia Pyke, Managing Director of Sizewell C, to challenge Bad Idea #32: “We don’t need nuclear.”

From financing and grid stability to biodiversity and public opinion, Julia explains why nuclear is essential to reaching net zero — and why the UK’s new fleet of reactors could reduce consumer bills, not raise them. They discuss the economics of megaprojects, how to avoid first-of-a-kind overruns, the role of heat in decarbonisation, small modular reactors, and how the Sizewell C project is reshaping both the local community and the nuclear industry itself.

Whether you’re a nuclear skeptic or advocate, this episode offers a rare, detailed look inside one of Europe’s biggest clean-energy projects.

🧠 Topics Discussed:

● ⚛️ Bad Idea #32: “We don’t need nuclear”

● 🏗️ Why Hinkley Point C cost overruns won’t repeat at Sizewell C

● 🔧 “7,000 design changes” — and why copying Hinkley avoids them ● ⚡ How nuclear cuts system-wide grid costs

● 💸 The Regulated Asset Base (RAB) model explained simply

● 🏭 Why the UK needs firm, low-carbon power alongside renewables

● 🇨🇳 China’s nuclear programme and the myth of “negative learning”

● 🌳 How Sizewell C aims to be nature positive ● 🐦 Engagement with RSPB, Wildlife Trusts & Natural England

● 👩‍🔧 Women in nuclear — and transforming the industry’s diversity

● 🏗️ Local jobs, apprenticeships, and long-term economic benefits

● ♨️ Using nuclear heat for direct air capture and industry

● 🌬️ Is SMR hype overshadowing big reactors?

● 🎶 The Sizewell Choir: wellbeing, culture, and community

👩‍🏫 Guest Bio:

Julia Pyke is the Managing Director of Sizewell C, the UK’s next large-scale nuclear power station. A former lawyer who helped finance Hinkley Point C, she now leads one of Europe’s biggest clean-energy projects. Julia specialises in nuclear financing, infrastructure delivery, and public communication.

📚 Recommended Reading & Resources:

● Electricity Distribution Networks study: government responsehttps://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electricity-distribution-networks-study-government-response 

● Aurora Energy Research (national system modelling) https://auroraer.com

● UK Government: Regulated Asset Base (RAB) model explainerhttps://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g

● Hinkley Point C project overview https://www.edfenergy.com/energy/nuclear-new-build-projects/hinkley-point-c

● Rolls-Royce SMR Programme https://www.rolls-royce-smr.com/

● Natural England – Tony Juniper https://naturalengland.blog.gov.uk/about-natural-england/

● Suffolk Wildlife Trust https://www.suffolkwildlifetrust.org/

● RSPB (Royal Society for the Protection of Birds) https://www.rspb.org.uk/

💬 Quote Highlights:

“The thing that stops nuclear being built isn’t engineering — it’s financing.” — Julia Pyke

“Counterintuitive as it seems, building Sizewell C reduces consumer bills.”

“If we could drop Sizewell C into place without construction impacts, there’d be almost no opposition.”

“Nuclear isn’t in conflict with renewables. It makes them cheaper.”

“If nuclear had been built out as planned in the 1980s, we wouldn’t have global warming.”

“We need nuclear that looks like the society it serves — not just white men.”

“Big infrastructure can be nature positive.”

🌐 About WePlanet:

WePlanet is a global science and citizen movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature and human flourishing.

Learn more: https://weplanet.org

📥 Join the Conversation

💬 Feedback or questions? Email: [email protected]

📩 Subscribe to new episodes: https://weplanet.org/podcast

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Is China secretly saving the world from climate catastrophe? 

In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas is joined by Lauri Myllyvirta, Lead Analyst and Co-Founder of the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air (CREA), to examine Bad Idea #31: “Climate crisis? It’s China that’s the problem!”

As one of the world’s most trusted analysts on China’s energy system, Lauri explains why this narrative is outdated — and how China’s clean-energy boom has become the most important climate story on the planet.

They dig into China’s extraordinary expansion of solar, wind, batteries, EVs and long-distance transmission lines; the politics behind continued coal-plant construction; the country’s dramatic air-pollution turnaround; and the global consequences if China’s emissions really have peaked.

🧠 Topics Discussed:

● 🔥 The “bad idea”: China will always burn more coal

● 📉 Why China’s CO₂ emissions have been stable or declining for 18 months

● ☀️ The solar boom: 100 solar panels installed per second

● ⚡ China’s new clean electricity each year = powering the UK twice

● 🏭 Why coal plants are still being built — and why many may sit idle

● 🪫 Battery deployment hitting 100 GW, transforming grid flexibility

● 🚗 EVs: 50% of new car sales and eating into China’s oil demand

● 🛻 The rise of electric heavy trucks and buses

● 🌬️ Wind, solar and nuclear in China’s power mix

● 🌁 China’s dramatic air-quality turnaround — and the global warming side-effects

● 🌎 Why China’s decarbonisation is now shaping global energy trends

● 🐉 Geopolitics: US decline, China’s clean-tech dominance

● 📊 Data transparency in China and how Lauri tracks the numbers

● 🔋 Solar + batteries as the cheapest power in world history

👨‍🏫 Guest Bio:

Lauri Myllyvirta is the Lead Analyst and Co-Founder of the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air (CREA). A globally respected expert on China’s energy system, he publishes widely in international media and frequently contributes analysis to Carbon Brief. Lauri previously worked with Greenpeace and has over a decade of experience tracking air-pollution, fossil-fuel and clean-energy trends across Asia.

More about Lauri’s work:

● CREA – https://energyandcleanair.org/

● Lauri on Carbon Brief – https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-chinas-co2-emissions-have-now-been-flat-or-falling-for-18-months/ 

📚 Recommended Reading & Resources:

● CREA – China emissions & energy analysis – https://energyandcleanair.org/ ● Lauri’s latest China emissions report – https://www.energyconnects.com/news/renewables/2025/november/china-s-september-emissions-drop-keeps-annual-decline-in-play/

● Carbon Brief: China energy & climate coverage – https://www.carbonbrief.org/category/china/

● Bloomberg: China’s clean-energy boom – https://www.bloomberg.com/green

● IEA World Energy Outlook – https://www.iea.org/weo

● China solar deployment data (NEA) – http://www.nea.gov.cn/

● China EV market overview (CPCA) – https://www.cpcaauto.com/

💬 Quote Highlights:
“China’s clean-energy boom is the biggest climate story in the world right now.” — Lauri Myllyvirta

“Solar additions this year alone can power the entire UK — twice.”

“Electric cars in China are already cutting into oil demand.” “China has the ability to peak emissions now — the question is political, not technical.”

“Air pollution improved faster in China than anyone predicted — and it shows what fast action looks like.”

“China didn’t just decarbonise itself — it made clean energy cheap for the whole world.”

🌐 About WePlanet:

WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development. Learn more at https://weplanet.org

📥 Join the Conversation

💬 Feedback or questions? Email: [email protected]

📩 Subscribe to new episodes: https://weplanet.org/podcast

👁️ Follow us on Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/weplanetint 

Could democracy really die in America? 

In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas speaks with Susan Stokes, Professor of Political Science at the University of Chicago and Director of the Chicago Center on Democracy, to challenge Bad Idea #30: “It can’t happen here.”

Drawing on her acclaimed book The Backsliders: Why Leaders Undermine Their Own Democracies, Stokes reveals the playbook that elected leaders use to quietly erode democracy from within — the same tactics that have turned Hungary, Turkey, and Venezuela into hybrid autocracies. She and Mark discuss the United States’ alarming slide under Trump’s second term, the global rise of “backsliders,” and why inequality may be the hidden fuel of modern authoritarianism.

This conversation exposes the real risks facing democratic societies — and what can still be done to save them.

🧠 Topics Discussed:

● ⚖️ The Bad Idea: “It can’t happen here” — and why it already is

● 🧱 The authoritarian playbook: courts, press, civil society, universities, and elections

● 🌀 “Firehose authoritarianism” — how chaos itself becomes a political tool

● 📉 Project 2025 and the new blueprint for executive overreach

● 🧮 How Bright Line Watch measures democratic decline

● 💰 The root cause: why inequality erodes democratic resilience

● 🌍 Why backsliding happens in both rich and poor countries

● 🧠 Right-wing ethno-nationalism vs. left populism — different faces, same logic

● 🎓 Why the educated elite have lost touch with working-class voters

● 🗳️ What Sweden and Brazil can teach us about democratic survival

● 🔮 Can the U.S. still hold a free election — or is this democracy’s last chapter?

👩‍🏫 Guest Bio:

Susan Stokes is the Tiffany and Margaret Blake Distinguished Service Professor of Political Science at the University of Chicago, where she directs the Chicago Center on Democracy. Her work focuses on democratic accountability, political participation, and comparative politics.

She is the author of The Backsliders: Why Leaders Undermine Their Own Democracies (Princeton University Press, 2024), which explains how elected leaders across the world — from the U.S. to Hungary to India — erode democracy from within. Stokes also co-founded Bright Line Watch, a project monitoring the health of American democracy through expert and public surveys.

📚 Recommended Reading & Resources:

● The Backsliders: Why Leaders Undermine Their Own Democracies – Susan C. Stokes

● Bright Line Watch – Ongoing surveys tracking the state of U.S. democracy

● Chicago Center on Democracy – University of Chicago research initiative

● The Precipice – Toby Ord

● Freedom House: Nations in Transit – Annual global democracy report

● V-Dem Institute – Democracy indices and data

● Project 2025 – The conservative blueprint shaping U.S. governance

💬 Quote Highlights:

“We live in a country where the government acts like an autocracy — and the people still act like it’s a democracy.” — Susan Stokes

“Autocracy doesn’t arrive with a coup. It arrives through the ballot box.”

“Income inequality is democracy’s most powerful poison.” “The courts, the press, the universities — they’re always the first targets.”

“Democracy dies not with a bang, but with a thousand executive orders.”

“If you invest in reducing inequality, you’re investing in democratic survival.”

🌐 About WePlanet:

WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development. Learn more at https://weplanet.org

📥 Join the Conversation

💬 Feedback or questions? Email: [email protected]

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Is net zero possible — and what’s really holding us back?

In this second part of his conversation with Mark Lynas, clean energy expert Michael Liebreich dives deep into the technologies, policies, and economics of the energy transition. Together they explore Bad Idea #29: “The Green transition is failing.”

Liebreich, founder of Bloomberg New Energy Finance and host of the Cleaning Up podcast, challenges magical thinking in climate policy and explains why achieving net zero demands realism, not slogans. From grid build-out and nuclear revival to hydrogen hype and global energy justice, this episode tackles the messy, pragmatic side of decarbonisation — and why optimism grounded in physics, finance, and fairness is our best bet for a sustainable future.

🧠 Topics Discussed:

● ⚡ The myth of an easy energy transition

● 🌍 Global energy inequality and why the Global South matters

● ☢️ The comeback of nuclear and the politics of fear

● 🔋 The limits of batteries and why grids need diversity

● 🌬️ Wind, solar, and the real bottlenecks of scaling clean power

● 🛢️ Fossil fuel phase-out: economics vs. ideology

● 🧮 The physics of net zero and why “energy realism” matters ● 💰 How finance, markets, and policy must align for decarbonisation

● 🚀 Why clean energy innovation — not austerity — is the path forward

👨‍🏫 Guest Bio:

Michael Liebreich is the founder of Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF), a leading provider of strategic research on the energy transition, and host of the influential podcast Cleaning Up. A former Olympic skier, investor, and advisor to the UK government on clean growth, Liebreich is known for his pragmatic, data-driven approach to climate and energy issues. Follow him on X/Twitter: @MLiebreich

📚 Recommended Reading & Resources:

● Bloomberg New Energy Finance – Market intelligence on the global energy transition

● Cleaning Up Podcast – Conversations with leaders in clean energy and climate policy

● The Liebreich Lecture (London Climate Week) – Annual keynote on energy and sustainability

● Mission Innovation – International initiative to accelerate clean energy innovation

● International Energy Agency (IEA) Net Zero Roadmap – Data and analysis on pathways to global net zero

● WePlanet – Global citizen movement advocating evidence-based solutions for climate and development

💬 Quote Highlights:

“Physics doesn’t negotiate. You can’t get to net zero by passing a law — you have to build stuff.” — Michael Liebreich

“The energy transition is happening, but it’s not happening fast enough — and not fairly enough.” — Michael Liebreich

“We need to be hard-headed about technology, but soft-hearted about people.” — Michael Liebreich

🌐 About WePlanet:

WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development.

📥 Join the Conversation:

💬 Feedback or questions? Email: [email protected]

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Are sharks really the monsters we’ve been taught to fear — or the ocean’s misunderstood guardians?

In this episode, Mark Lynas sits down with Arzucan “Zuzu” Askin, National Geographic Explorer, conservation scientist, and co-founder of Miyaru NGO, to take on Bad Idea #28: “Jaws - aka sharks are scary”

From diving daily with tiger sharks in the Maldives to pioneering the world’s first free-swimming shark ultrasounds, Zuzu shares what it’s really like to live and work among these ancient predators — and why our fear of them is one of conservation’s biggest barriers.

🧠 Topics Discussed:

● 🦈 The myth of the “man-eater”: why sharks aren’t scary, they’re essential

● 🎬 Jaws and how a single movie reshaped global shark perceptions

●🏝️ How the Maldives became the “Galápagos of the Indian Ocean” for sharks

● 🌊 The 2010 Maldives shark sanctuary — and how it saved populations

● 🤰 “Mama Shark”: the world’s first free-swimming ultrasound scans of tiger sharks

● 👩‍🔬 Shark pregnancies and live births — motherhood in the deep

● ⚖️ The fight to stop the return of shark fishing in the Maldives

● 🧴 Hidden sharks: in cosmetics, pet food, and even vaccines

● 🧠 How sharks inspire biomedical and design innovation

● 🐋 Collaborating with Dr. Sylvia Earle and Tongan scientists on whale research

● 🧩 What individuals can do to protect sharks — from banning fins to consumer choices

👩‍🏫 Guest Bio:

Arzucan “Zuzu” Askin is a conservation scientist, diver, and National Geographic Explorer based in the Maldives. She co-founded Miyaru NGO, the country’s first national-level shark conservation organisation, dedicated to protecting predatory shark species through research, education, and community engagement. Zuzu led the groundbreaking “Mama Shark” project, conducting the world’s first free-swimming ultrasounds on tiger sharks to study reproduction. She has worked with National Geographic, the Maldives Ocean Alliance, and partnered with researchers like Dr. Sylvia Earle to advance ocean science and storytelling.

📚 Recommended Reading & Resources:

● 🌐 Miyaru NGO – https://miyaru.org/

● 📄 Ultrasound Scanning of Free-Swimming Tiger Sharks – Frontiers in Marine Science (2023) – https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/marine-science/articles/10.3389/fmars.2024.1500176/full

● 🐋 Mission Blue – https://missionblue.org/

● 🧬 Blue Marine Foundation – https://www.bluemarinefoundation.com/

● 🌊 Maldives Resilient Reefs – https://maldivesresilientreefs.com/

● ✍️ Petition to Save the Maldives Shark Sanctuary – https://only.one/act/maldives-sharks

● 🎥 Jaws (1975) – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaws_(film)

● 🧴 Hidden Shark Ingredients – https://sharkallies.com/blogs/shark-allies-news/squalene

● 🧠 Sylvia Earle – https://missionblue.org/team/dr-sylvia-earle/

● 🐳 Humpback Whale Research Project (Tonga) – https://www.researchgate.net/publication/237530779_Humpback_Whales_in_Tonga_An_Economic_Resource_for_Tourism 

💬 Quote Highlights:

“A lion would never let you do what a tiger shark lets you do underwater.” — Arzucan “Zuzu” Askin

“When you show a shark as a mother, not a monster, people see them differently.”

“Sharks are older than trees — and we’ve managed to wipe out most of them in a century.”

“Europe is still one of the biggest exporters of shark fins and meat. That has to stop.”

“If you’ve used sunscreen, cosmetics, or pet food today, you might have already used shark.” “An ultrasound image of a pregnant tiger shark — that’s conservation storytelling at its best.”

🌐 About WePlanet:

WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development. Learn more at https://weplanet.org

📥 Join the Conversation:

💬 Feedback or questions? Email: [email protected]

📩 Subscribe to new episodes: https://weplanet.org/podcast

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Can thinking about the end of the world make us better people? In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas sits down with philosopher and existential risk researcher Dr SJ Beard to unpack Bad Idea #27: “There’s no hope for humanity’”

Drawing on their new book Existential Hope (Polity), SJ argues that we need to look beyond fear and fatalism to build a future worth surviving for. They explore how the same forces driving environmental destruction, inequality, and technological danger also threaten humanity’s long-term survival — and how rediscovering our shared humanity could be the key to building resilience and hope in an age of crisis.

🧠 Topics Discussed:

● 🌍 Why the same systems that harm people and planet now endanger our collective future

● 🧠 What “existential risk” really means — and why it’s about justice as much as survival

● 🏭 How extractive capitalism links everyday harm to global catastrophe

● 🤖 AI, technology, and the ethics of progress

● 💣 The limits of doom thinking and why apocalypse narratives can paralyse us

● 💡 The concept of existential hope — a practical philosophy for long-term survival

● ✊ Building solidarity, moral courage, and collective action as the real foundations of safety

● 🌱 Why saving humanity starts with saving our humanity

👨‍🏫 Guest Bio:

Dr SJ Beard is a philosopher and senior research associate at the Centre for the Study of Existential Risk (CSER) at the University of Cambridge. Their research explores the ethics of global catastrophic and existential risks — from AI and climate change to inequality and social justice. SJ’s new book, Existential Hope (Polity, 2024), argues that the same human capacities that create danger also give us the tools to survive and flourish. They are known for bringing humanity, empathy, and philosophical depth to one of the most urgent topics of our time.

📚 Recommended Reading & Resources:

● Existential Hope – https://www.sjbeard.com/existential-hope.html

● Centre for the Study of Existential Risk (CSER), University of Cambridge – https://www.cser.ac.uk/

● CSER Podcast: Existential Hope and Risk – https://www.cser.ac.uk/work/24-october-2025-conversations-on-existential-hope/

● The Precipice by Toby Ord – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Precipice:_Existential_Risk_and_the_Future_of_Humanity

● Our Final Hour by Martin Rees – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Final_Hour ● Climate Endgame (PNAS, 2022) – https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2108146119

● Effective Altruism Forum: Existential Hope and Moral Progress – https://forum.effectivealtruism.org 

💬 Quote Highlights:

“If we want to save humanity, we need to start by saving our humanity.” — SJ Beard

 “The same extractive systems that harm people and planet now are the ones that endanger our future as a species.”

“Existential hope isn’t utopian — it’s pragmatic. It’s about building the moral and collective capacity to survive.”

“Thinking about extinction isn’t just about avoiding the end; it’s about imagining a future worth existing in.”

🌐 About WePlanet:

WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development. Learn more at https://weplanet.org

📥 Join the Conversation

💬 Feedback or questions?

Email: [email protected]

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Can we inoculate society against misinformation?

In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas sits down with Professor Sander Vanderlinden — social psychologist at the University of Cambridge and author of Foolproof: Why Misinformation Infects Our Minds and How to Build Immunity — to take on Bad Idea #26: “Misinformation is just people being wrong on the internet.”

They explore how false and misleading information spreads, why even credible institutions sometimes get things wrong, and what we can do to build mental immunity.

From fake news to populism, pandemics to AI, this conversation dives deep into the psychology, politics, and future of truth itself.

🧠 Topics Discussed:

● 🧩 What counts as “misinformation” — and why intent matters

● 🧠 How our brains are wired to believe and share bad information

● 🧾 The difference between misinformation and disinformation

● 🌡️ COVID-19, lab leaks, and how science self-corrects

● 📺 The weaponization of “fake news” and authoritarian censorship

● 🧍‍♀️ Why polarization and inequality make us more vulnerable to lies

● 📱 How social media algorithms reward outrage and extremism

● 🤖 AI, deepfakes, and the next frontier of disinformation

● 💡 Prebunking and “psychological inoculation” — how to fight back

● 🧘 The power of intellectual humility and open-minded thinking

👨‍🏫 Guest Bio:

Professor Sander Vanderlinden is Professor of Social Psychology in Society at the University of Cambridge and Director of the Cambridge Social Decision-Making Lab. His research explores the psychology of misinformation, polarization, and belief formation. He authored the bestselling book Foolproof: Why Misinformation Infects Our Minds and How to Build Immunity (2023) and co-authored The Psychology of Misinformation (2024). His work has been featured by the WHO, the UN, and major media worldwide.

📚 Recommended Reading & Resources:

● Foolproof: Why Misinformation Infects Our Minds and How to Build Immunity – https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/708295/foolproof-by-sander-van-der-linden/

● The Psychology of Misinformation – https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/psychology-of-misinformation/2FF48C2E201E138959A7CF0D01F22D84

● Cambridge Social Decision-Making Lab – https://www.sdmlab.psychol.cam.ac.uk/

● Inoculation Science Project – https://inoculation.science

● Bad News Game –https://www.sdmlab.psychol.cam.ac.uk/research/bad-news-game

● Go Viral! Game (WHO x Cambridge) – https://www.who.int/news/item/23-09-2021-what-is-go-viral ● Cranky Uncle Game (by John Cook) – https://crankyuncle.com/game/

● “Climate Endgame” (PNAS, 2022) – https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2108146119

● European Digital Services Act – https://prighter.com/digital-governance/eu-dsa/ 

● UK Online Safety Act – https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/online-safety-act-explainer/online-safety-act-explainer

💬 Quote Highlights:

“Misinformation isn’t just about being wrong — it’s about being misled.” — Sander Vanderlinden

“Science can make mistakes, but it self-corrects. Disinformation never does.”

“Populism feeds off distrust. Once institutions lose credibility, facts don’t matter anymore.”

“We’ve known for thousands of years what misleading rhetoric looks like — Aristotle warned us about it.”

“You can’t fact-check your way out of this crisis. We need to inoculate minds, not just correct them.”

🌐 About WePlanet:

WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development. Learn more at https://weplanet.org

📥 Join the Conversation:

Feedback or questions?

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Subscribe to new episodes:https://weplanet.org/podcast

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🔍 Episode Summary:

Is “climate catastrophism” itself a bad idea?

In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas is joined by longtime collaborator and eco-modernist thinker Ted Nordhaus, Executive Director of the Breakthrough Institute. Together they take on Bad Idea #21: “We must be climate catastrophists to motivate action.”

Nordhaus — co-author of An Ecomodernist Manifesto — argues that apocalyptic climate narratives have backfired, fuelling political backlash and distracting from the real work of pragmatic, technology-driven decarbonisation. The pair explore what the science actually says about climate risk, why catastrophe is not inevitable, and how prosperity and resilience can coexist with climate action.

It’s a provocative conversation about fear, facts, and the future — one that challenges both denialism and doomerism.

🧠 Topics Discussed:

● 🌡️ What “climate catastrophism” means — and why Ted rejects it

● 📉 Why global emissions are likely to peak soon, and warming is unlikely to exceed 3°C

● 👥 How adaptation, technology, and prosperity have reduced climate vulnerability

● 🌪️ Why deaths from natural disasters are at record lows despite global warming

● 🧭 The limits of single-event attribution studies and the “50x more likely” fallacy

● 🌍 Collapse myths: why population, growth, and decarbonisation trends matter

● 🌳 The Amazon, coral reefs, and what biodiversity loss really means for humans

● 💣 Nuclear war, not climate change, as the real existential threat

● ⚙️ Why geoengineering could cause catastrophe if misused or terminated suddenly

● 🗳️ How climate catastrophism alienated working-class voters and fed political backlash

● ⚛️ Why nuclear and geothermal may be the unsung heroes of decarbonisation

👨‍🏫 Guest Bio:

Ted Nordhaus is the founder and Executive Director of the Breakthrough Institute, a California-based eco-modernist think tank pioneering pragmatic approaches to climate and energy. He co-authored An Ecomodernist Manifesto (2015) and The Death of Environmentalism (2004), which helped reshape modern environmental thinking. His work focuses on technological innovation, energy systems, and the political economy of decarbonisation.

📚 Recommended Reading & Resources:

● Why I’m No Longer a Climate Catastrophist – Ted Nordhaus (2024)

● An Ecomodernist Manifesto – Ted Nordhaus, Mark Lynas et al.

● The Death of Environmentalism – Ted Nordhaus & Michael Shellenberger

● Climate Endgame – Kemp et al. (PNAS, 2022)

● The Fate of Rome – Kyle Harper

● The Precipice – Toby Ord

● Breakthrough Institute – Official Website

● Mark Lynas & Ted Nordhaus in The Wall Street Journal – “Climate Change Isn’t the End of the World”

● The Cleaning Up Podcast – hosted by Michael Liebreich (related episode)

💬 Quote Highlights

“We don’t need to believe it’s the end of the world to act on climate — we just need to be pragmatic.” — Ted Nordhaus

“The world is getting richer, safer, and more resilient — not more fragile.”

“If you care about climate risk, don’t bet on apocalypse. Bet on human ingenuity.”

“Geoengineering could turn climate change into a real catastrophe — if we start and then stop.”

“The clean energy transition won’t be won by fear. It’ll be won by technology, prosperity, and persistence.”

🌐 About WePlanet

WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development. Learn more at https://weplanet.org

📥 Join the Conversation

💬 Feedback or questions? Email: [email protected]

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🔍 Episode Summary:

Is green hydrogen the silver bullet for decarbonisation — or a trillion-dollar distraction?

In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas is joined by energy analyst, investor, and podcaster Michael Liebreich to unpack Bad Idea #24: “We’ll just use Hydrogen!”

Liebreich, founder of Bloomberg New Energy Finance and co-host of the Cleaning Up podcast, makes the provocative case that green hydrogen is over-hyped, fundamentally flawed as a fuel, and destined to remain a niche solution rather than the backbone of a “hydrogen economy.”

Together they explore the physics, economics, and politics of hydrogen — why hype keeps returning in 20-year cycles, what role hydrogen can play in industry and fertilisers, and why pragmatism, not techno-fantasy, must drive climate strategy.

🧠 Topics Discussed:

● 💧 Why hydrogen is a “really crappy fuel” — and the laws of thermodynamics make it costly

● 📉 The difference between green, blue, grey, turquoise, and pink hydrogen

● 🏭 Current global hydrogen use: 100m tonnes/year, and why 0.1% is green ● 🚢 Why shipping liquid hydrogen is nearly impossible (density, leakage, energy loss)

● 💸 Hydrogen’s “missing trillions”: the cost gap with grey hydrogen

● 🛩️ Europe’s RED III mandate and the looming cost inflation in aviation fuels

● 🚛 Why trucks, steel, and shipping are unlikely to go hydrogen

● 🔋 The rise of electric trucks, batteries, and the hydrogen ladder framework

● ⚖️ Pragmatism vs. hype: why chasing bad ideas risks a climate backlash

● 🐢 The “Pragmatic Climate Reset”: think like a tortoise, not a hare

👨‍🏫 Guest Bio:

Michael Liebreich is founder of Bloomberg New Energy Finance, managing partner of EcoPragma Capital, and CEO of Liebreich Associates. A former Olympic skier, he is now one of the world’s leading clean-energy analysts. He is also co-host of the podcast Cleaning Up. His influential “Hydrogen Ladder” has shaped debate about where hydrogen makes sense — and where it doesn’t. Michael also writes extensively at Liebreich Associates Essays.

📚 Recommended Reading & Resources:

● Michael Liebreich – The Hydrogen Ladder

● Michael Liebreich – The Missing Trillions of Hydrogen

● Michael Liebreich – The Pragmatic Climate Reset (Part I & II)

● Hydrogen Economy – Jeremy Rifkin (2002)

● The Future of Hydrogen – IEA report (2019)

● TNO study on hydrogen costs – https://www.tno.nl/en/newsroom/2022/03/green-hydrogen-production-costs/

● European RED III Directive – https://energy.ec.europa.eu/topics/renewable-energy/renewable-energy-directive-targets-and-rules_en

● Porsche synthetic fuels project, Chile – https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2022/company/porsche-chile-haru-oni-efuels-pilot-plant-26823.html

💬 Quote Highlights:

“Hydrogen is the Swiss Army knife of energy — there’s almost always something cheaper, safer, and more convenient.” — Michael Liebreich

“If you care about the climate, the cleanest kilo of hydrogen is the one you never make.” — Michael Liebreich

“For every $1/kg cost gap, hydrogen needs $100 billion per year in subsidies. That’s the missing trillions.” — Michael Liebreich

“Politicians love hydrogen because it’s a get-out-of-jail-free card. But hype doesn’t change physics.” — Michael Liebreich

“Think like a tortoise, not like a hare: go steady, pragmatic, and win the race.” — Michael Liebreich

🌐 About WePlanet:

WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development. Learn more at https://weplanet.org

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🔍 Episode Summary Is civilisation inherently self-destructive? In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas is joined by political scientist and existential risk researcher Dr Luke Kemp to tackle Bad Idea #23 "These are the best of times"

Luke unpacks what history really tells us about the fate of past societies — and how those lessons do (and don’t) apply to today’s global risks like climate change, nuclear war, and AI. They explore the role of complexity, fragility, and inequality in collapse, and why we need to reject fatalism to build resilience and renewal instead.

From ancient Rome to modern techno-capitalism, this episode explores whether doom is destiny — or a bad idea we need to outgrow.

🧠 Topics Discussed

● 📜 What “collapse” actually means, and why it’s more often transformation

● 🏛️ Why Rome never really “fell” — and neither did most civilisations

● 🌍 Global risks vs. local collapses: what makes our world different

● 🔁 The role of feedback loops, fragility, and complexity

● 🌡️ Why climate change is a multiplier of collapse, not the root cause

● 💣 Nuclear war, AI, and engineered pathogens as existential risks

● 🤖 Why AI doom scenarios may be overhyped (and misdirected)

● 🧠 “Collapsology,” survivalism, and the new secular eschatologies

● 🌱 What real resilience looks like: democracy, equity, adaptability

● 🧘‍♀️ Why pessimism is lazy — and optimism is an active choice

👨‍🏫 Guest Bio

Dr Luke Kemp is a political scientist and risk researcher at the University of Adelaide and the University of Cambridge's Centre for the Study of Existential Risk. He co-led the influential 2022 paper Climate Endgame and has written widely on societal collapse, risk cascades, and global futures.

A former adviser to the Australian government, Luke specialises in the intersection of history, complexity science, and future risk. His current work focuses on resilience and renewal in the face of polycrisis.

📚 Recommended Reading & Resources

● 📝 Climate Endgame (2022 paper) – https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2204269119

● 🌐 Centre for the Study of Existential Risk (CSER) – https://www.cser.ac.uk

● 🧠 Luke Kemp research profile – https://researcher.sydney.edu.au/researcher/51183

● 📖 Jared Diamond – Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse:_How_Societies_Choose_to_Fail_or_Succeed

● 📖 Joseph Tainter – The Collapse of Complex Societies – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Collapse_of_Complex_Societies

● 📖 Kyle Harper – The Fate of Rome – https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691192062/the-fate-of-rome

● 📘 Our Final Hour – Martin Rees – https://www.basicbooks.com/titles/martin-rees/our-final-hour/9780465068630/

● 📗 The Precipice – Toby Ord – https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/toby-ord/the-precipice/9780316484911/

● 🎧 Collapse: The End of Everything (podcast series) – https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/m001qbpr 

💬 Quote Highlights

“Collapse is rarely the end — it’s usually the start of something new.” — Luke Kemp

“Rome didn’t fall — it transformed over centuries. That’s not a Hollywood ending, but it’s a real one.”

“Climate change is a risk multiplier, not the root cause of collapse. The real danger is fragility and inequality.”

“We need to stop treating resilience like a buzzword. It’s a system of systems — democratic, equitable, adaptive.”

“The biggest myth is that doom is destiny. It’s not. We have choices.”

🌐 About WePlanet

WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development. Learn more at https://weplanet.org

📥 Join the Conversation

💬 Feedback or questions? Email: [email protected] 📩 Subscribe to new episodes: https://www.weplanet.org/podcast

👁️ Follow us on Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/weplanetint