Scratch: CMO Interviews

In this week’s episode, Eric and co-host Dean Aragon are joined by a giant of the marketing world, Jim Stengel, the former CMO of Procter & Gamble, author of Unleashing the Innovators (2017) and Grow (2012), and host of The CMO Podcast. Jim insists that most marketers aren’t curious enough about what’s around the corner, and get too bogged down in short-term priorities. He explains how to balance focusing on today, tomorrow and long-term goals, especially as an incumbent business. (Hint: look at your calendar and leverage your team.) 

The conversation includes a discussion of the importance of reputation, trust, and the art of listening, as well as what Jim would spend the first 6 weeks doing at a new role. Finally, Eric, Dean and Jim wrap up by talking about the importance of brand purpose and why it sometimes falls apart.

For more from Jim, listen to The CMO Podcast or visit The Jim Stengel Company.

Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Today's episode was produced by Leanne Kilroy and hosted by Eric Fulwiler. 

Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. 

Find Eric on LinkedIn and tweet him @efulwiler.

Say hi at [email protected], we’d love to hear from you. 

Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.

Soyoung Kang, CMO at eos, a company known for its lip balm, talks about how she embraces the unknown by constantly calibrating and always choosing the option that will teach the most. By embracing the unknown early and always budgeting for experimentation, Soyoung helped eos become a giant on TikTok, where it has nearly 900k followers, and Instagram, where it has 1.7M. 

Soyoung and Eric discuss eos’ Bless Your F*ing Cooch Campaign, which pulled directly from a TikTok user’s unsolicited - and very enthusiastic - endorsement of eos’ shea butter shaving cream. This campaign caused sales of the shave cream to truly skyrocket and cemented eos’ place as a social media darling. Eos ran with it, making an ultra-limited edition shaving cream bottle with Carly Joy’s exact instructions on it in lieu of the classic usage directions on the bottle. "

She explains the importance of experimentation in marketing and how to do it well: make sure everyone  on your team is on board, identify expectations, and set parameters so you will know if it’s been successful.

Soyoung insists that marketers need to understand that they are never in complete control of the narrative - and that the true gift of social media is that it puts brands in conversations with consumers, and this leads to not just better marketing but better products and happier people.

Find more from Soyoung on here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/soyoungkang1/ 

Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Today's episode was produced by Leanne Kilroy and hosted by Eric Fulwiler. 

Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. 

Find Eric on LinkedIn and tweet him @efulwiler.

Say hi at [email protected], we’d love to hear from you. 

Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.

Scott Monty talks about his journey from premed student to marketing expert, and the elephant in the room - his amazing voice. He explains how understanding timeless human nature and psychology is key to effective communication and marketing. He encourages marketers to focus less on the platforms and more on the fundamentals, on storytelling and connecting to people. 

Scott deeply believes in the often dismissed importance of taking the time to take stock and acting with integrity and warns of the danger of talking about brand purpose without truly embracing it at all levels of the business. He warns of the danger of “purpose” being the CSR of 2022. 

Of the friction between the need to keep up with the latest marketing trends - from NTFs and beyond - to taking stock and doing things well, he says,  “if you are confident in your purpose, in the values that drive your business, then moving quickly shouldn’t be a problem.” We couldn’t agree more. 

To hear more more Scott, subscribe to his newsletter at www.timelyandtimeless.com and visit his website at www.scottmonty.com. 

www.scottmonty.com

Newsletter - www.TimelessTimely.com

Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Today's episode was produced by Leanne Kilroy and hosted by Eric Fulwiler. 

Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. 

Find Eric on LinkedIn and tweet him @efulwiler.

Say hi at [email protected], we’d love to hear from you. 

Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.

This week, Eric talks to Chris Skinner of The Finanser. Chris is well known for his extensive writing, speaking and advising on the disruption necessary in the banking and fintech worlds and is a proud self-proclaimed troublemaker because “the more trouble you make the more you can fix things.” 

In this week’s conversation with Eric, Chris explains everything from why he focuses his lens so intensely on the future, to why the financial world  isn’t as complicated as it might appear. He also explains the mechanism behind his staggering productivity and offers a truly global perspective on purpose-led banking. 

Chris’s next book - Digital For Good, If You Don’t Stand for Something You Fall Down - to be published in the second quarter of 2022 - will provide an in-the-round global perspective on purpose-driven banking and finance. 

It’s a conversation you won’t want to miss.

For more from Chris visit: The Finanser  and Chrisskinner.global

And to learn more about Chris’s children’s book series, Captain Cake and the candy crew, visit www.Captiancake.com.

Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Today's episode was produced by Leanne Kilroy and hosted by Eric Fulwiler. 

Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. Find Eric on LinkedIn and tweet him @efulwiler. Say hi at [email protected], we’d love to hear from you. 

Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.

In today’s episode, Eric talks to author, podcaster and content marketing expert, Robert Rose about everything from whether your marketing function can become a profit center to the fate of traditional advertising as we know it.

As promised, here are Robert’s recommended business books, his "mini-marketing-MBA":

The Practice of Management – Peter Drucker

The Management of Marketing Costs – James Culliton

Marketing Management – Philip Kotler 

Thinking About Management – Theodore Levitt

The Marketing Imagination – Theodore Levitt

Marketing Myopia (White Paper) – Theodore Levitt

Integrated Marketing Communications – Don E. Schultz

Innovator’s Dilemma – Clayton Christensen

The End of Competitive Advantage – Rita Gunther McGrath

Discovery Driven Growth – Rita Gunther McGrath

Different – Youngme Moon 

For more from Robert Rose, check out his brilliant podcast This Old Marketing with Joe Pulizzi, which has been downloaded more than two million times, or his website. 

Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Today's episode was produced by Leanne Kilroy and hosted by Eric Fulwiler.

Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter.

Find Eric on LinkedIn and tweet him @efulwiler.

Say hi at [email protected], we’d love to hear from you.

Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.

Abba came to Habito from a background in media and is now proud to make “batshit crazy mortgage ads” that speak to Habito’s strong purpose of setting people free from the hell of getting a mortgage. Abba explains that everything they do creatively comes from customer insights and admits that they do it “in a ludicrous manner.” There are, for example, TV ads showing animated characters being gruesomely killed by their mortgages, and the admittedly gorgeous print campaign depicting the mortgage kama sutra, and the erotic novel called The Road to Completion that promises “to put the moans back into your mortgage.” 

Abba is a “huge evangelist” of purposeful marketing but admits that telling people about doing the right thing can be really boring. It’s a big challenge to make purpose interesting. If you can get people to engage in your ads so much that they complain about them, she maintains, you’re doing a good job. “Every moment of making a Habito ad is terrifying”. She talks about some huge risks they’ve taken, and some they’ve had to reject. VCs do not want to take massive creative risks, so making incredibly risky advertising was never the obvious choice for a VC-backed start-up like Habito. 

Abba discusses her approach to Habito’s relationship with its creative agency, Uncommon. She is “inherently biased” in favor of creative agencies as that is where she came up, and she trusts the level o creativity that comes out of agencies. Her advice for working with a creative agency is to constantly share the work as it is being produced - even in the roughest state - so there are no surprises or disappointments.

Abba finishes up by talking about how they test their ads once they’re ready to make sure they’re doing exactly what they want to do and then they tweak them based on people’s reactions.  One thing is for sure: whatever they're doing, it's working.

See Habito’s “batshit crazy” advertising here, look at their mortgage kama sutra here, and read The Road to Completion here. 

• Follow @habitomortgages on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/habitomortgages/?hl=en
• Follow Abba @Peckham79 on Twitter  https://twitter.com/peckham79?lang=en
• Or find Abba on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/abba-newbery-8216905

Scratch is made in partnership with Attest, a consumer research platform with access to over 110 million consumers across 50 markets. Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Today's episode was produced by Leanne Kilroy and hosted by Eric Fulwiler. 

Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. 

Find Eric on LinkedIn and tweet him @efulwiler.

Say hi at [email protected], we’d love to hear from you. 

Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.

Tina Cassidy, CMO of GBH talks to Eric about the rebranding of Boston’s public broadcaster and the largest creator for public media in America. Trust is not only central to GBH as a company, it is central to GBH’s mission as a source of trusted news and information. It goes without saying that we find ourselves in an ever-changing information landscape where news is no longer traditionally produced or consumed, and the news media is increasingly seen as divided and divisive. Building trust with this new generation of consumers has been central to Tina’s mission at GBH. Through a commitment to transparency when it comes to gathering information from consumers and truly living its values, GBH has remained a deeply  trusted media source. Get in touch with Tina at  [email protected] and find GBH on Twitter https://twitter.com/GBH

Scratch is made in partnership with Attest, a consumer research platform with access to over 110 million consumers across 50 markets. Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Today's episode was produced by Leanne Kilroy and hosted by Eric Fulwiler. 

Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. 

Find Eric on LinkedIn and tweet him @efulwiler.

Say hi at [email protected], we’d love to hear from you. 

Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.

This week, James Kyd of Xero talks about how the online accounting platform with over 3 million customers has successfully built a community around the brand. By fostering a deep commitment to understanding the “real human costs” of running a business, Xero has nurtured a community composed mostly of accountants and small business owners. This dedication to understanding and addressing consumers’ needs is highlighted in Xero’s brilliant Behind Small Business Campaign, which tells the real stories and motivations of the people behind Britain’s small businesses. 

James and Eric talk about how Xero’s marketing function remains innovative. How do you keep a team of 150 marketers aligned? By making sure the brand’s values are not just celebrated but lived within the company. James explains that the marketers are encouraged to experiment in a culture promoting curiosity over perfection. Creating an environment where people feel psychologically safe and are encouraged to “bring your whole self to work” means that Xero’s employees are more attuned to people’s real experiences elsewhere, and including their customers and the world around them. By keeping “the real costs of business” and customers’ lived experiences at the core of everything they do, Xero fosters meaningful relationships with and among their customers. 

You can get in touch with James on Twitter or find him on LinkedIn. 

Scratch is made in partnership with Attest, a consumer research platform with access to over 110 million consumers across 50 markets. Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Today's episode was produced by Leanne Kilroy and hosted by Eric Fulwiler. 

Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.

In this wide-ranging conversation, Eric talks to Zaid Al-Qassab, CMO of Channel 4. With his rich career history, Zaid offers insight into the burning issues on the minds of every marketer, from in-house vs. agency, how to market in a post-third party data world, and how to marry the best of the challenger and incumbent models. 

While Channel 4 has two in-house agencies, 4creative - a full-service creative agency that produces more than 600 ads for Channel 4 every year - and 4Studio, a new digital content agency that also serves as a profit center - Zaid claims he is agnostic about the superiority of the in-house vs. agency model. In the case of Channel 4, the speed and frequency at which the company must churn out unique content means that an in-house model works best, while companies looking for content that takes more time to simmer may find that the agency model better suits their needs. 

Zaid discusses how in this post-cookie, post-third party data world, there must be transparency and opt-in from customers when brands extract value from their audience, and that this involves the audience extracting value from the brand. And how the rules of marketing are unchanging in a changing digital landscape whether you’re a start-up starting with nothing or a billion-dollar business. According to Zaid, you must: 

• Understand what the business objectives are
• Really understand your customer 
• Be excellent at extracting insight as to what motivates them
• Engage the customer wherever they are receptive with consistent messaging and with execution that is engaging

Is it possible to be as successful as an incumbent while having the agility of a challenger? Eric and Zaid talk about the difficulty (the impossibility?) of combining the competitive advantages of small challenger brands - namely, speed and lack of risk - with the advantages of incumbents - size, scale and resources. Challenger brands can be more provocative: products can be trialed and fail easily because volumes are smaller and the risk is smaller. While it’s hard to achieve, Zaid argues that it is possible where everyone in the organization is incredibly clear on the objectives and there’s a small number of measures of what you’re attempting to deliver.

To wrap up, Zaid gives invaluable advice to those looking to make a difference in Diversity and Inclusion. (Hint, hint: it’s about following your passion.) 

To watch some truly incredible, inspiring, and just all around brilliant work to come out of Channel 4’s in-house agency, 4creative: see the Paralympics spot here and their ad for their Big Beautiful Weirdos campaign highlighting Channel 4’s motto, Altogether Different, here.

To find a career at Channel 4, visit: https://careers.channel4.com/4jobs

In this week’s Organization We Sponsor, Eric talks to Jeff Wilson of One Percent For the Planet, a nonprofit consisting over 10,000 members, inspiring businesses and individuals to support environmental nonprofits. Businesses can get involved with an annual commitment of donating 1% of sales to environmental causes. Individuals can commit to donating 1% of income or volunteering. 

Scratch is made in partnership with Attest, a consumer research platform with access to over 110 million consumers across 50 markets. Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Today's episode was produced by Leanne Kilroy and hosted by Eric Fulwiler. 

Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. 

Find Eric on LinkedIn and tweet him @efulwiler.

Say hi at [email protected], we’d love to hear from you. 

Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.

In this week’s episode, Eric talks to the nicest people in the business, Jasper Martens and Rachael Oku from PensionBee, about how the company has managed to stay true to its customers along the journey from launching as a small fintech start-up to going public. Rachael and Jasper talk about how letting their brand purpose guide both their company culture and marketing has given their brand a distinct voice that resonates so well with so many. Watch how PensionBee uses its own employees and real customers in their IPO marketing, as they do in nearly all their customer-facing marketing. Learn more about their Fossil Fuel Free plan, which Rachael discusses in the episode (and which seems like a pretty great thing) here. And hear about how making mistakes and being able to scale quickly can be the best way to innovate in an ever-changing marketing landscape. 

In this week’s organization we sponsor, Eric talks to Lucy Cutter, President of Bloom, a professional network for women in communications, dedicated to promoting gender equality in the industry. Their mission is to, “to future-proof women’s careers, spearhead industry change and pay it forward,” goals we at Rival get behind. Please check out Bloom and how you can be a part of positive change at https://www.bloomnetwork.uk/what-we-do. 

Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Today's episode was produced by Leanne Kilroy and hosted by Eric Fulwiler. 

Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. 

Find Eric on LinkedIn and tweet him @efulwiler.

Say hi at [email protected], we’d love to hear from you. 

Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.