How do we reMAKE our systems to treat people with respect, kindness and empathy? 

On this episode of the reMAKER’s podcast, we talk to Mark Zirnsak, Senior Social Justice Advocate at the Uniting Church, who works on issues from climate change and tax to modern slavery, as director of its Justice and International Mission.

Mark is an endlessly curious person and deep thinker, whose drive for justice and love takes him into the heart of the issues facing humanity. Sometimes, this causes him to challenge his peers, as on climate change. 

“At the end of the day, if all we do is electrify everything, and we leave the underlying neoliberal economic system unchallenged and in place, then I think we're just waiting for the next crisis to emerge,” he told us.  

But Mark is also someone who believes in the goodness of individuals, in how far we’ve come and in our capacity to to change systems for the better: drawing on lessons from history, from the advent of modern democracy to innovations happening right now in Seattle.  This is a thoughtful, gentle and hopeful conversation with someone who’s found his calling. 

SHOW NOTES

Things and people we mention

Amnesty International

Pax Christi

The Moon is Down by John Steinbeck 

Tax Justice Network 

Stage Three Tax Cuts 

Cannibal Capitalism by Nancy Fraser

Doughnut Economics by Kate Raworth

The War for Kindness by Jamil Zaki

Common Cause 

The Voice Referendum

Our conversation with Sally Hill on purpose-driven business

Welcoming Disability

Adam Grant 

Seattle’s Democracy Vouchers

Recommendations and things you can do

Visit justact.org.au to learn more and support the work led by Mark and his team. 

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This episode of the reMAKERS was recorded from the lands of the Gubbi Gubbi people, in Queensland’s Sunshine Coast and the Wurundjeri Woi-wurrung peoples in Narrm (Melbourne).  We honour the Traditional Owners of these lands and waters, and pay our respect to Elders past and present.