Former FBI Special Agent Jim Gaylord joins Matt to discuss Chasing Chi, his inside account of the multi-year hunt for Chi Mak, the low-key Southern California engineer at the center of a major Chinese spy ring inside America’s Navy industrial base. They walk through how a vague tip evolved into a full counterintelligence operation—trash pulls, covert entries, FISA surveillance, and a race to grab the Chi’s conspirators at LAX before stolen submarine and radar secrets left the country—and what the case reveals about China’s modern espionage threat.

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Learn more about Jim and the Chi Mak case: chasingchibook.com

Order Chasing Chi: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Chasing-Chi/James-E-Gaylord/9781493091966

Audio: https://pod.fo/e/35c7dc

YouTube: https://youtu.be/OxzTwaS5W5M

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Secrets and Spies is produced by F & P LTD.

Music by Andrew R. Bird

Photos by Prometheus Books

Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.

Chris is joined by journalist Tom Mutch to discuss The Dogs of Mariupol and the realities of reporting from Ukraine’s front lines. Tom shares what it takes to work inside an active war zone—from the decision to stay during the invasion to the daily logistics of moving, sourcing, and staying alive. They dig into the resilience of Ukrainians under fire, the reach of Russian propaganda, and the social fractures between those who fought and those who fled. Tom also reflects on why documenting these stories matters and how Ukraine’s future could be shaped by the ingenuity and grit he’s seen on the ground.

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Order The Dogs of Mariupol: https://www.bitebackpublishing.com/books/the-dogs-of-mariupol

Audio: https://pod.fo/e/35a2eb

YouTube: https://youtu.be/yZQz7bUms3E

Email [email protected], or reach out on social media via the links below.

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Secrets and Spies is produced by F & P LTD.

Music by Andrew R. Bird

Photos by AP Photo/Evgeniy Maloletka, AFP & Madison Tuff

Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.

Chris Carr sits down with author Stephen Bates to discuss The Man Who Sold Honours and the extraordinary life of Maundy Gregory—actor, fixer, conman and sometime MI5 asset at the heart of Britain’s original cash-for-honours scandal. They unpack how Gregory monetised access to power, became the only person ever prosecuted under the 1925 law aimed at stopping the sale of honours, and what his story reveals about the long, murky history of buying peerages. The conversation then jumps to today’s political funding battles—from parties’ dependence on wealthy donors to recent cash-for-honours rows and Boris Johnson’s approach to transparency—to ask what all this says about the health of British democracy.

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Order The Man Who Sold Honours: https://www.iconbooks.com/ib-title/the-man-who-sold-honours-2/

Find more about Stephen: https://www.stephenbateswriter.com

Audio: https://pod.fo/e/357dd4

YouTube: https://youtu.be/RkBRVAO8kXY

Email [email protected], or reach out on social media via the links below.

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Secrets and Spies is produced by F & P LTD.

Music by Andrew R. Bird

Photos by Icon Books, Hooman R./Unsplash & Gert Lucas/PhotoHound

Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.

On today’s episode, Chris and former CIA analyst Yaya Jata Fanusie explore the evolution of digital currencies, focusing on central bank digital currencies (CBDCs), Bitcoin, and the implications for national security and global financial systems. They discuss the rise of China's digital currency, the concept of programmable money, and the potential for cryptocurrencies to challenge traditional financial systems and government control. The conversation also touches on the importance of data in geopolitical power and the regulatory landscape surrounding cryptocurrencies.

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The Programmable State: The e-CNY and China’s Quest for Smarter Surveillance by Yaya J. Fanusie & Emily Jin | Lawfare: https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/the-programmable-state--the-e-cny-and-china-s-quest-for-smarter-surveillance

On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yaya-jata-fanusie-87901738/

On X/Twitter: https://x.com/SignCurve

Yaya’s Substack recomendation, Crypto is Macro Now: https://www.cryptoismacro.com/

Yaya’s book recommendation, Read Write Own: https://readwriteown.com/

Audio: https://pod.fo/e/353357

YouTube: https://youtu.be/mCoqSv_RE20

Email [email protected], or reach out on social media via the links below.

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Secrets and Spies is produced by F & P LTD.

Music by Andrew R. Bird

Photos by Yaya J. Fanusie & Canva

Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.

Chris is under the weather this weekend, so in place of Espresso Martini we’re sharing his conversation with former CIA analyst Yaya Fanusie. They dig into the national security and geopolitical stakes of central bank digital currencies, the broader evolution of crypto, and China’s push to build a state-controlled system. Matt and Chris will return with a new Espresso Martini the first weekend of December.

Email [email protected], or reach out on social media via the links below.

Please include your first name and general location if you’re comfortable.

Become a “Friend of the Podcast” on Patreon for £3/$4: https://www.patreon.com/SecretsAndSpies

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Subscribe to our YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDVB23lrHr3KFeXq4VU36dg

For more information about the podcast, check out our website: https://secretsandspiespodcast.com

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Follow Chris and Matt on Bluesky:

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Secrets and Spies is produced by F & P LTD.

Music by Andrew R. Bird

Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.

Shane Harris joins Matt to discuss his recent piece in The Atlantic, “Europe Is Answering Putin’s Challenge.” From drone incursions over the Baltic to Trump’s transactional diplomacy, Shane unpacks how European leaders are rearming, coordinating, and preparing for a future where Washington may no longer be the continent’s security backstop. They explore NATO’s shifting balance of power, the uneasy courtship between Trump and Europe’s leaders, and whether the alliance can endure in an age of populism and uncertainty.

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Read Shane’s piece: https://www.theatlantic.com/national-security/archive/2025/10/nato-putin-trump-europe-ukraine/684592/

More of Shane’s reporting: https://www.theatlantic.com/author/shane-harris/

Follow Shane on Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/shaneharris.bsky.social

Follow Shane on X/Twitter: https://x.com/shaneharris

Audio: https://pod.fo/e/34e836

YouTube: https://youtu.be/7SZodRyMYsc

Become a “Friend of the Podcast” on Patreon for £3/$4: https://www.patreon.com/SecretsAndSpies

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Subscribe to our YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDVB23lrHr3KFeXq4VU36dg

For more information about the podcast, check out our website: https://secretsandspiespodcast.com

Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/secretsandspies.bsky.social

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Follow Chris and Matt on Bluesky:

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Secrets and Spies is produced by F & P LTD.

Music by Andrew R. Bird

Photos by NATO

Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.

In this special conversation, Chris speaks with Reality Winner — the former Air Force linguist and NSA contractor who leaked evidence of Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. election and served the longest prison sentence ever imposed for an unauthorized disclosure. Winner reflects on her decision, the weaponization of the Espionage Act, her years in prison, and the struggle to rebuild her life after release. It’s an unfiltered discussion about truth, power, and the personal cost of dissent in modern America.

Subscribe and share to stay ahead in the world of intelligence, global issues, and current affairs.

Order Reality’s memoir, I Am Not Your Enemy: https://www.spiegelandgrau.com/i-am-not-your-enemy

Audio: https://pod.fo/e/3487b4

YouTube: https://youtu.be/i9T0FijQDjo

Become a “Friend of the Podcast” on Patreon for £3/$4: https://www.patreon.com/SecretsAndSpies

Buy merchandise from our shop: https://www.redbubble.com/shop/ap/60934996

Subscribe to our YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDVB23lrHr3KFeXq4VU36dg

For more information about the podcast, check out our website: https://secretsandspiespodcast.com

Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/secretsandspies.bsky.social

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Follow Chris and Matt on Bluesky:

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Secrets and Spies is produced by F & P LTD.

Music by Andrew R. Bird

Photos by Christopher Lee

Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.

A fragile ceasefire in Gaza, the collapse of a UK spy trial, and a damning new report on China’s exploitation of U.S. defense research—Chris and Matt unpack a pivotal few weeks in global politics and intelligence. They assess the Trump-brokered truce between Israel and Hamas, the role of Jared Kushner, Qatar, and Tony Blair in the deal, and why Netanyahu’s legal troubles could upend it all. In London, they break down how a high-profile Chinese espionage case unraveled, exposing gaps in the Official Secrets Act and Britain’s uneasy relationship with Beijing. And in Washington, Matt digs into a new Congressional report on U.S. taxpayer-funded defense research benefiting the PLA—from hypersonics, quantum computing, and AI—and the bipartisan effort to close those loopholes.

Subscribe and share to stay ahead in the world of intelligence, global issues, and current affairs.

Audio: https://pod.fo/e/3441b1

YouTube: https://youtu.be/N3XqFtU7TXY

"How Trump Pushed Israel and Hamas to Yes" by Isaac Stanley-Becker and Vivian Salama | The Atlantic: https://www.theatlantic.com/national-security/archive/2025/10/ceasefire-gaza-trump-israel-hamas/684529/

"Hamas Is Not Done Fighting" by Matthew Levitt | Foreign Affairs: https://www.foreignaffairs.com/palestinian-territories/hamas-not-done-fighting

"White House Works to Preserve Gaza Deal Amid Concerns About Netanyahu" by Katie Rogers and Luke Broadwater | The New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/20/us/politics/trump-gaza-israel-netanyahu.html

"The aide, the associate, the ‘Chinese agent’ – and the collapse of a long-awaited UK spy trial" by Dan Sabbagh and Amy Hawkins | The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/sep/20/collapse-uk-spy-trial-china-christopher-cash-christopher-berry

"Witness statements in relation to alleged breach of Official Secrets Act on behalf of China" by Matthew Collins | Crown Prosecution Service: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/witness-statements-in-relation-to-alleged-breach-of-official-secrets-act-on-behalf-of-china

"Fox in the Henhouse: The US Department of Defense Research and Engineering's Failures to Protect Taxpayer-Funded Defense Research" | US House Select Committee on the CCP: https://selectcommitteeontheccp.house.gov/media/reports/fox-in-the-henhouse

"A CIA Secret Kept for 35 Years Is Found in the Smithsonian’s Vault" by John Schwartz | The New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/16/science/kryptos-cia-solution-sanborn-auction.html

"Charles Powell: Britain has always had to deal carefully with China" by Luke O’Reilly | The New Statesman: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk-politics/2025/10/charles-powell-britain-has-always-had-to-deal-carefully-with-china

"Director General Ken McCallum gives threat update" by Ken McCallum | MI5: https://www.mi5.gov.uk/director-general-ken-mccallum-gives-threat-update

"Dutch services share less information with the US: 'Sometimes we don't tell things anymore'" by Huib Mudderkolk | Volkskrant: https://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/nederlandse-diensten-delen-minder-informatie-met-de-vs-soms-vertellen-we-dingen-niet-meer~b4882f19/

"The Kremlin’s New Contractors: Inside Russia’s Market for Political Warfare" by Anton Shekhovtsov | Towers of Europa: https://shekhovtsov.substack.com/p/the-kremlins-new-contractors

"Hostile states recruit youths for crime, Met warns" by James W. Kelly | BBC News: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0q73312zlpo

"Mysterious Aircraft Crash Near Area 51 Just Got Weirder" by Joseph Trevithick | The War Zone: https://www.twz.com/air/mysterious-aircraft-crash-near-area-51-just-got-weirder

"Satellites Are Leaking the World’s Secrets: Calls, Texts, Military and Corporate Data" by Andy Greenberg and Matt Burgess | WIRED: https://www.wired.com/story/satellites-are-leaking-the-worlds-secrets-calls-texts-military-and-corporate-data/

"Trump Administration Authorizes Covert CIA Action in Venezuela" by Julian E. Barnes and Tyler Pager | The New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/15/us/politics/trump-covert-cia-action-venezuela.html

"Trump Is Turning Back the Clock on US Policy in Latin America" by Frida Ghitis | World Politics Review: https://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/us-china-latin-america-trump/

"Why did the China spying case collapse?" by Will Barker | The Week UK: https://theweek.com/defence/why-did-the-china-spying-case-collapse

Become a “Friend of the Podcast” on Patreon for £3/$4: https://www.patreon.com/SecretsAndSpies

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Secrets and Spies is produced by F & P LTD.

Music by Andrew R. Bird

Photo by Pedro Pardo/AFP & Greg Barker/AFP

Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.

Chris speaks with historian Dr. Jessica Douthwaite, co-curator of John le Carré: Tradecraft at Oxford’s Bodleian Library. They explore how le Carré—born David Cornwell—approached his extensive research, the selection process for the exhibition, and the political evolution reflected in his works. Jessica emphasizes le Carré’s identity as a writer who was also a spy, the collaborative nature of his writing process with his wife, and the contemporary relevance of his themes. They also discuss his novels’ impact on literature and society, and how le Carré’s creative legacy has reshaped modern spy fiction.

Subscribe and share to stay ahead in the world of intelligence, global issues, and current affairs.

Find more about John le Carré: Tradecraft: https://visit.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/lecarre

Buy the exhibition book, Tradecraft: Writers on John le Carré: https://bodleianshop.co.uk/products/tradecraft-writers-on-john-le-carre

Audio: https://pod.fo/e/33f804

YouTube: https://youtu.be/7bfYwun2aGo

Become a “Friend of the Podcast” on Patreon for £3/$4: https://www.patreon.com/SecretsAndSpies

Buy merchandise from our shop: https://www.redbubble.com/shop/ap/60934996

Subscribe to our YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDVB23lrHr3KFeXq4VU36dg

For more information about the podcast, check out our website: https://secretsandspiespodcast.com

Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/secretsandspies.bsky.social

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Follow Chris and Matt on Bluesky:

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Secrets and Spies is produced by F & P LTD.

Music by Andrew R. Bird

Photo courtesy of Ralph Crane/Time-Life & Bodleian Library

Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.

Former FBI agent Tim Carpenter led the Bureau’s Art Crime Team, chasing down everything from stolen masterworks to looted antiquities. In this conversation, he joins Chris to discuss his new book The Grave Robber, a gripping account of the biggest stolen artifacts case in FBI history. Tim recounts the investigation into Don Miller, an amateur collector who raided archaeological sites and kept human remains in his Indiana home, and reflects on how the FBI sought justice and cultural restoration in the aftermath.

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Order The Grave Robber: https://www.harpercollinsfocus.com/harper-horizon/grave-robber/

Find more about Tim and his work outside the FBI: https://arguscpc.com/about/

Connect with Tim on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-carpenter-271856202/

Audio: https://pod.fo/e/33dcbf

YouTube: https://youtu.be/ocW9TgUT0u0

Become a “Friend of the Podcast” on Patreon for £3/$4: https://www.patreon.com/SecretsAndSpies

Buy merchandise from our shop: https://www.redbubble.com/shop/ap/60934996

Subscribe to our YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDVB23lrHr3KFeXq4VU36dg

For more information about the podcast, check out our website: https://secretsandspiespodcast.com

Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/secretsandspies.bsky.social

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Follow Chris and Matt on Bluesky:

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Secrets and Spies is produced by F & P LTD.

Music by Andrew R. Bird

Photos courtesy of HarperCollins and the FBI

Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, cold war espionage and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.