When was the last time a salesperson helped you make a truly confident decision? In this episode of the Sell by Being Human podcast, Alex Smith sits down with Mark Kosoglow, Chief Revenue Officer at Deutsche Bank and former CRO at Catalyst Software, to talk about what selling actually looks like when you strip away the scripts. From selling shoes as a teenager to helping scale Outreach to $250M, Mark’s journey is anything but typical, but his core idea has stayed the same: great salespeople help others make confident decisions.

They get into what that looks like in practice. Mark shares why letting passion lead often creates better conversations than trying to sound polished, how his early experience with consultative selling shaped the way he works today, and why honesty and vulnerability matter more than most people think, especially when you’re asking teams or customers to embrace change.

They also dive into storytelling, the role of metaphors in making ideas stick, and the problems that come from unclear expectations. Throughout the conversation, Mark makes a strong case for being yourself, not as a slogan, but as a real advantage in both sales and leadership.

If you’ve ever felt like selling forces you to be someone you’re not, this episode will change how you approach every conversation.

Key Takeaways

• Help people make confident decisions, not just hit numbers
• Let passion show instead of hiding behind professionalism
• Treat “no” as a step that moves you closer to yes
• Focus on understanding the problem before offering solutions
• Build trust by being transparent about intentions and mistakes
• Give direction, but avoid control to unlock creativity
• Act, learn, and adjust instead of over-planning
• Prioritize clarity and ask questions instead of assuming

In This Episode:

• [00:00] Mark’s core motivation for selling
• [01:00] Welcome & introduction to Mark Kosoglow
• [02:05] Dan Pink’s To Sell Is Human and personal connections
• [05:05] What “sell by being human” means to Mark
• [06:03] Helping people make confident decisions (the 2-out-of-3 rule)
• [08:15] Early days: Selling shoes at The Athlete’s Foot & learning consultative selling
• [11:45] Telemarketing lessons and embracing “no”
• [14:21] Leading through change and the weight of asking people to shift how they work
• [16:05] Balancing control with freedom and creativity
• [18:46] Admitting failures and iterating quickly (self-sourcing example)
• [22:28] Revenue Kickoff reflections and the power of in-person connection
• [25:32] Using metaphors and storytelling (the Boeing story)
• [29:38] What Mark looks for in a CEO/leader above him
• [33:29] Clear communication and avoiding misinterpretation
• [36:08] Lessons for his kids
• [39:06] Signature question: What makes Mark totally Mark?
• [40:36] Where to find Mark
• [40:59] Closing

Notable Quotes

• [05:11] “Let your passion overcome your professionalism.” — Mark Kosoglow
• [05:55] “My personal motivation and the motivation I like my sales teams to have is to help people make confident decisions.” — Mark Kosoglow
• [10:32] “People love learning about their problem enough to understand why you’re suggesting a solution, and then they’re super confident in making the decision of that solution.” — Mark Kosoglow
• [12:27] “The faster they say no, the more I can move on to the next call that could say yes.” — Mark Kosoglow
• [36:42] “Who you are is who you are, and it’s probably pretty awesome” — Mark Kosoglow
• [24:27] “ I just really want to have fun and I want to work hard and I want to kick ass and win. And I don’t think that I have to be an asshole to do that.” — Mark Kosoglow
• [36:54] “Work ethic is like a trump card for success.” — Mark Kosoglow
• [38:22] “Expectations are the number one thing that kill parent-child relationships.” — Mark Kosoglow

Our Guest

Mark Kosoglow is Chief Revenue Officer at Deutsche Bank and a seasoned sales leader with decades of experience scaling revenue organizations. Previously, as CRO at Outreach, he helped scale the company to $250 million in revenue. Mark's career began at a shoe store called The Athlete's Foot, where he learned consultative selling at 16 years old, a philosophy that has shaped his leadership style ever since. Known for his storytelling, metaphors, and unconventional communication style, Mark believes that great sales leadership comes down to trust, transparency, and helping people make confident decisions.

Sell by Being Human

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Mark Kosoglow

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Alex Smith

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• LinkedIn

Did you know the idea of closing might be the single worst thing to ever happen to sales? In this episode of Sell by Being Human, host Alex Smith sits down with Steve Heroux, founder of The Sales Collective, author of The Sales Contrarian, and former #1 Cutco salesperson in the country, to dismantle everything you thought you knew about selling.

Steve’s journey started exactly where you might expect. He was a quiet kid who didn’t speak for the first 17 years of his life, needed to buy $1,600 worth of textbooks, and took the only job that would hire him, selling knives door to door. What happened next defied every sales script, every closing technique, and every “proven methodology” his training threw at him.

With raw honesty and zero filter, think Larry David in the sales world, Steve explains why the desperate need to be liked is killing your deals, why assessments matter more than tactics, and how he went from ripping up his training script on his first demo to becoming the national sales leader, all by treating people like humans.

You’ll also hear about his Million Veteran Mission, why Bob Ross is a better sales teacher than any guru, and the one mindset shift that separates the top 14% of performers from everyone else.

If you’ve ever felt icky about sales, struggled with pricing conversations, or wondered why the “proven techniques” don’t feel right, this conversation is your permission slip to do it differently.

Key Takeaways

1. Why “closing” is unnecessary when selling is done well
2. How detachment from outcomes improves trust and results
3. The real reason most sales scripts fail
4. Why the need to be liked is one of the biggest sales blockers
5. How authenticity outperforms pressure and persuasion
6. Why sales training without self-awareness doesn’t work
7. The difference between selling hope and creating change
8. Why mastery in sales is a long-term practice, not a quick fix

In This Episode:

[00:00] Why “closing” is the worst thing in sales

[00:46] Meet Steve Heroux

[02:46] What "Sell by Being Human" means to Steve

[04:53] Steve’s view of success in sales then vs now

[08:11] The first demo that changed everything

[09:28] Why Steve ripped up the script and never looked back

[11:45] Simple themes: Authenticity, detachment, and loving what you sell

[13:22] Shohei Ohtani and the power of process over outcomes

[15:22] Teachers who shaped Steve's approach

[16:09] What Bob Ross teaches us about sales

[18:54] Sales Collective Today

[19:34] Always Be Connecting: The new ABCs

[20:14] Why frameworks fail without mindset

[21:08] Discovering Sales DNA and the will to sell

[23:06] The will to sell and the need to be liked

[27:35] Fear of Failure Is Really Fear of Judgment (Daniel Pink Story)

[30:33] The "hope dealers" and why quick fixes don't work

[33:56] Why Steve doesn't prospect (and what he does instead)

[34:57] The Million Veteran Mission

[37:29] Legacy, impact, and what really matters

[39:08] Why human-centered sales training is rare

[43:17] Steve's Larry David moments

[45:05] Where to find Steve

Notable Quotes

1. [00:00] “The single worst thing to ever happen to humanity is closing.” — Steve
2. [03:08] “ There's a reason, right, that salespeople are hated. There's a reason that salespeople don't even want to call themselves what their vocation is.”— Steve
3. [04:01] ”The three least trusted professions on the planet: Salesperson, Politician, Attorney.— Steve
4. [07:39] ”Success to me was like someone actually another human talking to me.”— Steve
5. [09:06] “If you do a good job, people will ask you what the next step is.” — Steve
6. [12:23] “You have to detach from outcomes or you’ll never be satisfied.” — Steve
7. [16:05] “ It's not what you teach, it's how you teach.” — Steve
8. [17:52] “There are no bad students, only bad teachers.” — Steve
9. [23:16] “The need to be liked will destroy your ability to sell.” — Steve
10. [27:10] ” The second you stop giving a crap what strangers think about you, that's when you'll start to live.”— Steve

Our Guest

Steve Heroux is the founder of The Sales Collective, author of The Sales Contrarian, and a sales leader who spent 14 years at Aflac after starting his career as the #1 Cutco salesperson in the country. He's on a mission to elevate the sales profession through authenticity, human connection, and evidence-based assessment. His Million Veteran Mission aims to train one million veterans in sales for free.

Sell by Being Human

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Steve Heroux

1. The Sales Collective
2. LinkedIn
3. Million Veteran Mission
4. Book: The Sales Contrarian

Alex Smith

1. Website
2. LinkedIn

What if I told you you’re struggling in sales because you’ve been approaching it the wrong way? In this episode of the Sell by Being Human podcast, Alex Smith sits down with sales coach and entrepreneur Natasha Hemmingway to flip the script on everything you think you know about selling. Her message is simple but powerful. Sales is serving. And hustle? It might actually be pushing your dream clients away.

Natasha shares how growing up with a servant leader mom shaped her philosophy of heart over hustle, and why mindset, not strategy, is usually what holds entrepreneurs back. They unpack fear of rejection, fear of pricing too high, burnout, and the sneaky subconscious patterns that sabotage growth.

You’ll also hear her practical fear-to-faith framework, why most entrepreneurs are undercharging, and how being crystal clear in conversations builds trust fast.

If you want to grow your business without feeling pushy, awkward, or salesy, this conversation will change how you show up and how you close.

Key Takeaways

1. Why hustle energy can secretly sabotage your sales
2. The “Fear to Faith” cycle that breaks limiting beliefs
3. How your subconscious affects pricing, confidence, and closing
4. Why most entrepreneurs are undercharging
5. The truth about “not all money being good money”
6. How to qualify clients with clarity and integrity
7. Why connection always beats persuasion

In This Episode:

1. [00:00] Introduction & guest welcome
2. [01:04] Personal connection & authenticity in sales
3. [03:17] Natasha’s take on Sell by Being Human
4. [05:06] Mindset and self-relationship in sales
5. [06:14] Role models: Servant leadership & early influences
6. [09:14] Sales beyond traditional roles
7. [11:01] Defining hustle (and why it backfires)
8. [13:31] Balancing hustle and heart: Client challenges
9. [14:35] Strategy vs. mindset in sales success
10. [18:38] Practicing what you preach: Natasha’s own journey
11. [19:41] Faith, surrender, and decision-making
12. [21:13] Qualifying clients & setting boundaries
13. [22:03] Authenticity and invitation in sales calls
14. [26:13] Sales as a universal skill
15. [27:12] Sales in family & daily life
16. [29:43] Mindset, fear, and the subconscious
17. [30:20] Breaking through fear: The fear-to-faith cycle
18. [36:13] Pricing, value, and worth in sales
19. [38:06] What makes Natasha... Natasha
20. [40:10] Family support & self-care
21. [42:02] Where to find Natasha
22. [42:19] Closing & gratitude

Notable Quotes

1. [01:49] "At the end of the day, we aren't what we do; we are who we are" — Natasha
2. [03:24] “Selling with heart, not hustle, is selling by being human." — Natasha
3. [03:48] "I always say sales equals serving; you are serving a person." — Natasha
4. [12:01] "Hustle can lead to burnout, and hustle can actually push people away from you." — Natasha
5. [34:12] "If you don’t ask, you don’t know, and if somebody says no, what do you lose? Nothing." — Natasha
6. [36:36] "General rule of thumb for most entrepreneurs: you are not charging enough. Period." — Natasha
7. [39:09] “No matter the time or day, I’m always going to be there; I show up for people.” — Natasha

Our Guest

Natasha Hemmingway is a sales coach, consultant, and pricing profitability expert helping entrepreneurs and corporate sales teams grow revenue without sacrificing authenticity. Her philosophy Heart, Not Hustle empowers professionals to sell with integrity, confidence, and sustainable strategy.

Summary:

Today I bring on executive communications coach Amos Balongo, who shares insights on the importance of human connection in sales. I'm always interested when people come from completely different cultures to sell themselves and what they do. They are corced to learn how to see people as individuals and Amos will share how to do that in your own life. It seems unlikely that a boy from Africa that knew no English could go on to being a successful keynote speaker and executive consultant but Amos will explain how he used sales and human connection to do it.

Amos discusses his journey from Africa to becoming a keynote speaker, emphasizing the need for authenticity, understanding audience needs, and the power of storytelling.He highlights the significance of personal growth, the impact of philanthropy, and the necessity of building trust with clients. The conversation concludes with a rethinking of sales as a service rather than a transaction, encouraging listeners to focus on improving others' lives.

Key Moments:

02:13 The Essence of Selling by Being Human

06:00 Amos's Journey: From Africa to Keynote Speaker

11:50 Understanding People: The Key to Connection

17:50 The Art of Speaking: Motivating and Inspiring Audiences

23:48 Storytelling as a Tool for Connection

29:44 Finding the Right Fit: Coaching and Client Relationships

35:19 Disruption and Growth: Personal Development Insights

38:29 Final Thoughts on Sales and Human Connection

Connect with Amos

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Summary:

This episode I speak with Mark McDougall, a web designer and developer, about the importance of human connection in sales as a product designer. In Mark's line of work. he has to connect to business owners, marketers, and entrepeneurs on ways to make their websites more effective.

Notice I didn't say, he has to tell people their baby looks ugly?

We talk about how empathy and understanding client needs are crucial for successful selling, especially for solopreneurs. He shares tips on how he consults with people to understand their motivations for their websites. Mark shares his journey from corporate life to freelancing, emphasizing the lessons learned through experience. The conversation also covers effective cold emailing strategies, the significance of crafting engaging subject lines, and the value of vulnerability in sales interactions. You'll also learn Mark's funny but logical metaphor on how strawberries apply to understanding concepts of value.

Mark provides insights into managing sales conversations and offers advice for those starting their own businesses, highlighting the need to embrace the unique aspects of one's personality in the sales process.

Takeaways

Empathy is essential for effective selling.

Understanding client motivations leads to better sales outcomes.

Cultural background can influence sales techniques.

Trial and error is a key part of learning sales.

Cold emailing should focus on genuine interest in the recipient.

Crafting personalized subject lines increases email open rates.

Building rapport is crucial in sales conversations.

Vulnerability can foster deeper connections with clients.

Sales is about mutual value exchange, not just transactions.

Being comfortable with awkwardness can enhance sales interactions.

Key Moments:

00:00 Introduction to Human-Centric Selling

02:58 The Importance of Empathy in Sales

06:09 Cultural Shifts and Personal Background

09:00 Lessons from Corporate Experience

11:59 The Shift to Solopreneurship

15:10 Understanding Client Needs

17:41 Cold Email Strategies

21:00 Crafting Engaging Subject Lines

24:08 Creating a Human Connection

26:59 Managing Sales Conversations

29:54 Being Vulnerable in Sales

32:51 Advice for Solopreneurs

35:55 Embracing the Weirdness in Sales

38:38 Conclusion and Resources

Connect with Marc, and learn about strawberries and value

1. LinkedIN
2. Why selling is like strawberries

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Summary:

I'm kicking off 2026 with a conversation with Rick DeLisi, a thought leader in customer service and AI. Rick co-authored "Digital Customer Service: Transforming Customer Experience for An On-Screen World and is a leading researcher on providing world class customer experiences.

If you have ever had to contact any company for a customer service issue - you know what it feels like to get poor customer service versus good customer service. The problem is that most if not all of those companies you've worked with will call themselves "customer centric". This conversation explores what it means to sell customer service through the lens of being human. We explore the evolving landscape of customer interactions, emphasizing the importance of human connection, the psychology behind customer loyalty, and the role of AI in creating effortless experiences. Rick shares insights from his research, highlighting the need for companies to understand their customers' emotions and the significance of reducing effort in service interactions. We also delve into the balance between efficiency and empathy, the future of customer service, and practical examples of how companies can enhance their customer experience. If you want to understand the pysychology of a customer at a deep level, this episode is for you!

Sound bites

"People don't mind being wowed."

"You don't need a person for that."

"It's about knowing which is which."

Key Moments:

00:00 Introduction to Human Connection in Sales

03:03 The Psychology of Customer Interactions

05:50 Understanding Customer Loyalty and Experience

09:13 Effortless Customer Service: The Key to Loyalty

11:54 The Role of AI in Customer Interactions

15:02 Seamless Transitions Between Digital and Human Support

18:00 The Importance of Context in Customer Service

20:56 Surprising Insights from Customer Research

25:17 Harnessing AI for Enhanced Customer Interactions

28:34 The Future of Customer Service: A 2026 Vision

30:52 Balancing Efficiency and Empathy in Customer Service

35:58 Real-Life Customer Experience: Lessons Learned

41:48 Understanding Customer Needs: The Key to Retention

Connect with Rick

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Summary:

What can you learn about sales and connections from a guy on a mission to connect housands of people via cocktail parties?

Today I bring on Eric Melchor, a channel manager at Honeywell, and a Texan at heart living in Bucharest. Those two things may not go together but Eric followed his wife to Europe and he's connected hundreds of people over conversations at local cocktail parties.

We explore the significance of human connection in sales, the power of storytelling, and the importance of authenticity in building trust. Eric shares his unique approach to networking through cocktail parties, emphasizing the value of personal connections over traditional networking methods. The conversation highlights the role of icebreakers in fostering meaningful conversations and offers practical strategies for engaging with others, both online and in person. I'm a big believer in people buying into the human side of you and Eric gives you tools to do this yourself through the way he connects one time guests.

Key Moments:

00:00 Introduction to Human Connection in Sales

03:08 The Power of Storytelling in Sales

06:06 Personal Background and Influences

08:59 Creating Comfortable Environments for Connection

11:59 The Cocktail Party Concept

15:07 Unexpected Outcomes from Networking Events

18:01 Building Relationships Beyond Job Titles

21:02 Curating Connections for Events

23:47 Practical Tips for Strengthening Connections

27:09 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Connect with Eric

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2. Heading to Bucharest? Reach out to Eric for a Cocktail Party

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Summary:

Today we bring on Jen Mueller, a seasoned sports broadcaster and communication expert.

Jen Mueller is a business communication expert and the founder of Talk Sporty to Me, where she helps companies level up their communication skills with actionable strategies inspired by her 25-year career as a sports broadcaster.

An Emmy-award-winning producer, Jen is in her 16th season as the Seattle Seahawks sideline radio reporter and has spent 18 years with the Seattle Mariners on ROOT SPORTS. She’s known for building strong relationships, delivering meaningful content in short bursts, and expertly handling post-game interviews (while dodging Gatorade baths!).

She’s also the author of three books on communication and the creator and host of “I Cook, You Measure”—a YouTube cooking show that blends instruction with connection over food and wine.

Our conversations explores the nuances of human connection in sales and broadcasting, emphasizing the importance of empathy, consistency, and effective questioning. Jen shares her experiences interacting with professional athletes, particularly in challenging situations and losses. She tells stories of the significance of small gestures, like thank you notes, in building relationships. We talk about practical strategies for asking better questions and creating safe spaces for honest dialogue, ultimately showcasing how personal connections can enhance professional interactions.

Key Moments:

00:00 Introduction to Human Connection in Sales

02:47 The Art of Meeting Athletes Where They Are

06:01 Building Relationships Through Consistency

08:48 The Importance of Intentional Communication

12:08 Navigating Tough Conversations After Losses

14:51 Learning from Experience and Trial

17:56 Asking Better Questions in Interviews

21:00 Handling Difficult Post-Game Interviews

24:10 The Impact of Losses on Athletes and Reporters

28:01 Navigating Tough Conversations

30:21 The Importance of Clear Communication

32:00 Creating a Comfortable Interview Environment

34:07 Crafting Effective Questions

37:51 Understanding Client Needs

39:51 The Impact of Small Interactions

42:50 Memorable Moments in Sports Journalism

51:26 Personal Insights and Quirks

Connect with Jen!

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Summary:

Today I speak to Jared Cook, a seasoned expert in customer success and sales. Jared has most recently been a SR VP of Customer Experience at Docebo and has held senior roles in Customer Success at companies like Domo and Adobe. He is the founder of Crush Churn Consulting where he helps companies reduce churn by 30%.

Our conversation explores the importance of human connection in sales, the role of customer success in driving retention, and the need for genuine relationships with customers.

Jared shares insights from his childhood about sales, emphasizing the importance of confidence, connecting on a human level as a leader, and a seller, and understanding customer needs.

There are so many useful approaches that Jared shares on having difficult interactions with clients to creating a personal connection with a new team that you can take into what you do.

If you want practical strategies for improving customer retention and preventing churn, and implementing curiosity and empathy in your sales interactions. You'll walk aways with foundational skills to integrate your personal and professional lives to foster deeper connections with the people your work with and the clients you serve. This was a fun one to learn from an executive is customer success and how those skills can help you in sales!

Sound Bytes:

"It's about helping a human solve a problem."

"You can create human connection at scale."

"I'm always up for an adventure."

Key Moments:

00:00 Introduction to Human Connection in Sales

02:41 Defining Selling by Being Human

05:01 Lessons from Childhood: Sales and Confidence

10:47 Integrating Personal and Professional Life

17:24 The Role of Customer Success in Sales

21:28 Curiosity as a Sales Tool

28:09 Improving Customer Retention Strategies

33:18 Identifying and Preventing Customer Churn

39:36 Building Genuine Connections with Customers

Connect with Jared

• LinkedIN
• Website

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Summary:

Today I bring on Kevin Yates, known as the L&D Detective, to explore the intersection of authenticity, resilience, and effective learning and development practices. I knew that I needed to talk to Kevin after seeing him present at our conference. He was able to connect with the crowd in a unique way with his engaging talk and also shared inisghts of how he sold big ideas in previous roles by focusing on business performance and human performance.

Kevin shares insights on how to he sells by being human as a speaker, emphasizing the importance of authenticity in engagement. His. method of speaking is to really immerse his audience within a problem and take them on a journey. You'll learn how Kevin crafts his speaking frameworks to take people on a journey and you'll also get insights on how he would get really big initiatives done by focusing on business outcomes.

Kevin has had to gain influene with business leaders, executives, and now with audiences. You'll leave with takeaways on how he's done that in his career and how you can apply it to your own situations where influence needs to be built.

Key Moments:

00:00 Introduction to the Podcast and Guest

02:33 The Essence of Selling by Being Human

07:23 Authenticity in Sales and Learning Development

11:19 The Responsibility of Sharing Knowledge

15:37 Lessons from Ella Yates: Resilience

19:48 Understanding the L&D Detective Brand

26:23 The Essence of Collaborative Selling

29:33 Creating Experiential Learning Opportunities

32:59 Democratizing Access to Learning Resources

35:56 Defining Impact in Learning and Development

40:17 Shifting Mindsets in L&D

42:42 Performance Consulting vs. Traditional Training Conversations

Connect with Kevin

• LinkedIN

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