SEO On-Air

How AI Is Exposing Marketing Agencies

Is AI actually changing marketing, or is it just exposing the agencies that were never good at it?

In this episode of SEO On-Air, host Koa Kauwe sits down with Valerie Jennings (Jennings Social Media & MarTech) and Anthony Butler (Can Do Ideas) to work through which agencies AI is filtering out and which ones it is making stand out.

The conversation examines both sides of the question. Valerie argues nobody is losing a job to AI, they are surrendering to it, and that the people thriving treat it as a co-creation platform requiring taste, curiosity, and real analytical skill. Anthony brings the harder edge, describing audits where a client had spent forty thousand dollars on SEO and received no real work, and arguing that technical SEO alone stopped justifying a retainer years ago. Their shared point is that content written to trick a search engine is now read only by bots.

They also get into the pricing promises that cannot possibly be delivered, why refusing to show live dashboards is a deal breaker, what LLMs actually want to cite and why shared press coverage falls short, why local businesses have the easiest opening left in search, the chiropractor problem where a hundred businesses generate the same article, why people follow people rather than company pages, and the micro testing approach both use before scaling anything.

🎯 What You'll Learn:

- Whether AI is changing marketing or exposing weak agencies

- The pricing red flag that tells you an agency cannot deliver

- Why refusing to show live dashboards is a deal breaker

- Why technical SEO alone stopped being worth a retainer

- Why AI content written for bots gets read only by bots

- What LLMs actually want to cite and why press coverage falls short

- Why local businesses have the easiest opening in search

- Where AI genuinely belongs in an agency workflow

- Why people follow people rather than company pages

- Why micro testing beats guessing before you scale

Whether you own an agency, pay one a retainer, handle marketing in-house, or are about to hire, this episode gives you two practitioners naming the red flags plainly and explaining what separates real strategy work from invoiced activity.

🎧 Tune in to hear why the agencies most worried about AI are usually the ones with the least to show for their last twelve months.

How Do You Measure Brand Success

Brand is the hardest thing in marketing to measure, so what do you actually look at to know it is working?

In this episode of SEO On-Air, host Koa Kauwe sits down with Kesley Smith (GoZoek) and Lynn Tickner (Ink and Key) to work out what evidence proves a brand is alive when you strip away the logo, the website, and the messaging.

The conversation examines two very different measures. Kesley goes straight to retention rather than leads, arguing you can fill the pipeline all day but churn on the back end tells you where the fundamentals broke, which is why she runs monthly reviews looking for themes across calls and emails. Lynn measures verbal consistency instead, checking whether customers describe you using the same language you gave them, and suggests pulling your Google reviews into AI to surface the themes that keep resurfacing.

They also get into whether AI is commoditizing brand now that anyone can generate a decent logo and site, why the business owner should be the guide rather than the hero, the curse of knowledge that makes founders assume customers understand them, when to narrow your story and how to have that conversation with a client who does not want to, and why the strongest brand signal may be that people tag your name without being asked.

🎯 What You'll Learn:

- Why retention measures brand better than lead volume

- How to check whether customers repeat your language back to you

- How to use AI to pull themes out of your own reviews

- What proves a brand exists once the logo and site are gone

- Why AI cannot decide what your brand should stand for

- Why positioning yourself as the hero loses the customer

- How the curse of knowledge quietly breaks your messaging

- When to narrow the story and how to sell that to a client

- Why a confused team is the first warning light on the dashboard

- Why brand is closer to charisma than to design

Whether you own an agency, run marketing in-house, are building a company from scratch, or need to prove brand work to a skeptical stakeholder, this episode gives you two practical measurement approaches that do not depend on a dashboard metric.

🎧 Tune in to hear why the clearest proof your brand is working has nothing to do with anything you published.

What Makes A Good Quality Backlink

Do domain rating and authority scores actually tell you a link is good, or are you measuring the wrong thing?

In this episode of SEO On-Air, host Koa Kauwe sits down with Ray Martinez, VP of SEO at Archer Education, who runs search for universities where a single enrollment can be worth forty to fifty thousand dollars and the sales cycle runs 12 to 18 months.

The conversation examines his definition of link quality, which starts by throwing out the metrics most people lead with. Ray does not look at domain authority or domain rating, calling them estimations, and instead asks whether the linking page has real topical authority, whether the anchor text and surrounding content are relevant, and whether the link could plausibly drive referral traffic. Follow or nofollow does not factor in. He also points out that sites publishing about everything water down their own authority, which is why a relevant link from a focused site beats a high scoring profile link every time.

They also get into the two million dollar link building contract that came with no quality requirements and produced PBNs, why he disavows nothing on EDU domains but moves fast on his personal site, how spammers hijack university subdomains through student credentials, what Forbes and HubSpot have in common, why AI compressed three separate search queries into one output, and how he ties AI citations to actual enrollments.

🎯 What You'll Learn:

- Why domain authority and domain rating are the wrong starting point

- The three things that actually make a backlink worth having

- Why follow versus nofollow matters less than relevance

- The referral traffic test for judging any link

- Why publishing about everything dilutes your own authority

- What a two million dollar link budget with no standards produced

- When disavowing links is worth it and when it is not

- How spammers exploit university subdomains for authority

- Why organic traffic fell 25 percent while conversions improved

- How to connect AI citations to revenue rather than rankings

Whether you buy links, build them, sell them, or evaluate them for clients, this episode gives you a working quality standard from someone operating in one of the most scrutinized and highest stakes verticals in search.

🎧 Tune in to hear why the metric most agencies quote in their link reports is the first thing this VP of SEO ignores.

(00:00) Intro

What Is Ethical Marketing And Why It Matters

Is ethical marketing about being honest with clients, or about telling them what they do not want to hear?

In this episode of SEO On-Air, host Koa Kauwe sits down with Joshua Prizer (Zero Company Performance Marketing), Seth Trammell (KlientBoost), and Joseph Robison (Green Flag Digital) to define what ethics actually looks like from the agency side of the table.

The conversation examines alignment as the core of it. Joshua frames ethical marketing as closing the gap between what you promise, what you sell, and what the client actually experiences. Seth adds the harder half, telling clients the thing they did not come to hear, even when it puts you on the back foot. Joseph borrows a frame that happiness is the gap between expectations and reality, and points out that the sales process is where that gap gets created.

They also get into whether it is ethical to sell a solution you do not believe in, the TV commercial a CEO demanded and the small budget workaround that satisfied him, the Forbes placements a client loves seeing that the agency knows do nothing, why AI mentions are the new DR or DA, what a report should actually answer, and the humility it takes to admit you are not the right person for the account.

🎯 What You'll Learn:

- What ethical marketing means from an agency perspective

- Why alignment between sales and fulfillment is an ethics problem

- Whether it is ethical to sell a client the wrong solution

- When an agency should actually say no

- Why humility may be the most important trait in a marketer

- Why AI mentions have become the new vanity metric

- The three questions every good client report should answer

- Why broken analytics undermines every other decision

- What an agency genuinely owes its clients

- How long it really takes to reach alignment with a client

Whether you own an agency, sell marketing services, manage client accounts, or buy from agencies yourself, this episode gives you three practitioners working through the grey areas out loud, including the ones they have handled badly before.

🎧 Tune in to hear why the most ethical thing an agency can do is often the thing that risks losing the account.

How To Improve AI Visibility With Digital PR

Is AI visibility a new problem to solve, or the same authority problem digital PR has always worked on?

In this episode of SEO On-Air, host Koa Kauwe sits down with Kelsey Libert, co-founder of Fractl, who has spent nearly two decades studying what makes content earn coverage and is now applying that research to why some brands get cited by AI and others get ignored.

The conversation examines the data behind brand mentions. Kelsey points to an Ahrefs study of over 75,000 brands showing branded web mentions correlate strongly with AI visibility, MuckRack finding that 95 percent of AI citations come from non-paid media, and Stacker research suggesting third party coverage can lift AI citation visibility by 325 percent compared to relying on your own blog. Her argument is that listicles are the new keyword stuffing, and proprietary research is the only thing AI cannot regurgitate.

They also get into why AI visibility is probabilistic rather than a ranking, why one prompt tells you nothing, the SparkToro study showing niche publishers deliver 1.7 times higher audience affinity than major outlets, why AI Overviews favor mainstream authorities while LLMs surface vertical specialists, what PR teams should automate and what must stay human, and where Kelsey would spend 20,000 dollars over 90 days.

🎯 What You'll Learn:

- Why branded web mentions correlate with AI visibility

- Why 95 percent of AI citations come from earned and non-paid media

- Why listicles have become the new keyword stuffing

- How to design research credible enough to earn coverage

- Why testing one prompt tells you nothing about your visibility

- Why niche publishers can outperform major logos

- Why AI Overviews and LLMs cite different types of sources

- What digital PR teams should automate and what must stay human

- Why only half of AI generated content gets fact checked

- Where to spend a 20,000 dollar budget over 90 days

Whether you run an agency, lead PR or content in-house, own a brand fighting for citations, or plan next year's authority budget, this episode gives you a research backed view of what actually drives AI visibility and where most teams are still spending on the wrong things.

🎧 Tune in to hear why the most valuable asset for AI visibility is probably sitting unused inside your own company.

The New SEO Terms You Need To Know

Are GEO and AEO genuinely new disciplines, or is the industry just renaming SEO?

In this episode of SEO On-Air, host Koa Kauwe sits down with Chad de Lisle (Disruptive Advertising) and Jake Gauntley (Rise at Seven) to sort the terminology that actually means something from the terminology that exists to sell retainers.

The conversation examines why both of them refuse to rebrand. Chad calls GEO clever marketing, a buzzword built to get CEOs asking their agency about it. Jake says Rise at Seven deliberately has not doubled down on the acronym, because clients already know SEO helps with AI visibility and selling it as new edges toward snake oil.

They also get into where AI genuinely helps teams scale versus where it quietly destroys quality, the tool stack question and why Claude, Gemini, and ChatGPT get used for different jobs, whether SEO and PPC are converging into one search strategy, and why brand mentions without links still carry weight.

🎯 What You'll Learn:

- Whether GEO and AEO are real disciplines or clever marketing

- Why the fundamentals that mattered before still matter most

- Why AI made average content easier rather than better

- Where AI helps SEO teams scale and where it damages quality

- Why an untrained AI model just creates noise in every channel

- Which AI tools these agencies use for which specific jobs

- Whether SEO and PPC are becoming one search strategy

- Why the search results page is best treated as real estate

- Where brand authority actually comes from today

- Why brand mentions matter even without a link attached

Whether you run an agency, sell SEO services, handle marketing in-house, or just want to know which new terms are worth learning, this episode gives you two practitioners cutting through the acronym cycle and naming what has genuinely changed underneath it.

🎧 Tune in to hear why two agencies that could easily sell GEO have both decided not to.

What Backlink Strategies Actually Work Today 
 
Do backlinks still move rankings today, or has content quality made them optional? 
 
In this episode of SEO On-Air, host Koa Kauwe sits down with Devin Pfromm (Spirra Digital), Wojciech Urban (Delante Agencja), and Jay Mcleod (Ferocious Media) to compare what three agencies actually accept, reject, and pay for when they build links. 
 
The conversation examines where their thresholds diverge. Devin runs the strictest filter, wanting DR 50 or above, at least 500 to 600 monthly organic visitors sustained for a year, and a referring domain ratio of one to one or better, though he will take a DR 5 editorial link if the placement is genuinely relevant. Jay refuses every link seller who lands in his inbox and argues DA and DR are manufactured numbers, preferring a DA 10 with real traffic over an inflated DA 40 with none. Wojciech takes the opposite view entirely: a good backlink is simply one that works, you cannot know until you build it, and Google now ignores spam well enough that he has stopped using the disavow tool. 
 
They also get into why brand mentions now matter more than the link tag itself, why a link bought two years ago can hurt you today, the client Koa reviewed spending 2,500 dollars a month where only one link had any traffic, why AI content damages a site faster than a bad backlink ever could, whether GEO and AIO are real disciplines or temporary noise, and why Jay stays cautious because every strategy is one algorithm update from collapsing. 
 
🎯 What You'll Learn: 
 
- The exact metrics one agency requires before accepting a link 
 
- Why DA and DR alone tell you almost nothing 
 
- Why a DA 10 with traffic beats a DA 40 without it 
 
- Why brand mentions now matter more than the link itself 
 
- How a good backlink turns into a liability two years later 
 
- Why one guest has stopped using the disavow tool entirely 
 
- Why thin AI content tanks a site faster than a bad link 
 
- When backlinks are worth the risk and when they are not 
 
- Why the sky is the limit on links but not on content 
 
- How to future proof a link strategy against the next update 
 
Whether you buy links, build them, sell them, or refuse to touch them, this episode gives you three incompatible and equally defensible link philosophies, plus the reasoning behind each so you can decide which risk you are comfortable carrying. 
 
🎧 Tune in to hear why two of these agencies would reject the exact backlink the third would happily pay for. 
 

How To Use Social Media To Improve Your SEO

Is social media now part of SEO, or are they still two separate jobs with two separate teams?

In this episode of SEO On-Air, host Koa Kauwe sits down with Greg Secrist (BKA Content) and Nathan Hawkes (Arcane Marketing) to work through how social content and search now feed each other, and why treating them separately leaves most of the value on the table.

The conversation examines what changed underneath. Nathan points to Google confirming that social platforms are openly being indexed, and says he has watched AI cite Facebook and LinkedIn posts back to him. Greg adds the number that should move budgets: YouTube gets cited 200 times more than any other video platform across ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Google.

They also get into the video first workflow where one recording becomes a YouTube upload, a blog post, and five social cuts, why brand visibility replaced rankings as the goal, the lawn care channel Greg built as a test that outperforms his SEO channel, why a better microphone beats a better camera, and Nathan's three step structure for every video worth making.

🎯 What You'll Learn:

Why social media is now part of SEO rather than a separate channel
Why YouTube is cited far more than any other video platform in AI
How one video becomes a blog post and five social assets
Why 60 percent of search now happens outside Google
Why YouTube's algorithm rewards patience where TikTok does not
Why you need 10 to 20 videos on the same problem before it works
How to pick your first 10 video topics without guessing
Why audio quality matters more than camera quality
How to use agentic AI to find which video topics will land
The three step structure behind a video worth making

Whether you run an agency, handle marketing in-house, own a business with no video presence yet, or plan content across channels, this episode gives you a working sequence for turning one recording into coverage across search, social, and AI, plus a realistic view of how long it takes to pay off.

🎧 Tune in to hear why the fastest route into an AI answer might be a video you shot on your phone.

How To Balance AI And Human Talent In Marketing

Where does AI belong in marketing work, and where does handing it over quietly cost you?

In this episode of SEO On-Air, host Koa Kauwe sits down with Samuel Fisher (Green Dispensary Marketing), Craig Brucker (Five Dog Solutions), and Ross Johnson (3.7 Designs) to work out which parts of agency work AI can take and which parts still need a person.

The conversation examines where each of them draws that line. Samuel points to the large parasite SEO agencies running AI drafts through human editors whose only job is injecting personality back in. Ross treats AI as a very smart intern, useful for research and first drafts, but never something whose output reaches a client unreviewed. Craig runs it hardest and trusts it least, using AI images as placeholders until a photographer shoots the real thing.

They also get into whether operational excellence beats SEO genius, selling flexible sprints instead of fixed retainers, why what a client wants is often not what they need, the childcare client who handed a working SEO program to a college kid, and the golden rule of IT that explains why perfect systems get their budgets cut.

🎯 What You'll Learn:

Where AI genuinely helps in agency work and where it breaks things
Why AI drafts still need a human editor to add personality back
How to treat AI like an intern rather than a deliverable machine
Why Google still rewards real photos over AI generated images
How to tell an AI image from a real one
Why flexible sprints outperform fixed deliverable retainers
How to define North Star metrics that actually matter to a client
Why in-house SEO teams struggle with internal politics
Why your domain should be built on the keyword, not your name
The golden rule of IT and what it teaches about proving value

Whether you own an agency, run marketing in-house, manage content production, or decide where AI fits in your workflow, this episode gives you three working models for splitting the job between people and tools, from the operator who trusts it least to the one who leans on it most.

🎧 Tune in to hear why the agencies getting the most out of AI are the ones who decided in advance what it is not allowed to touch.

What to Look For Before Hiring A Marketing Agency

Is the bad reputation marketing agencies carry actually earned, or are clients judging work they were never shown?

In this episode of SEO On-Air, host Koa Kauwe sits down with Megan Bond (Panther City Digital Marketing), Ashley Robinson (Green Cardigan Marketing), and Emily Shepherd (HYPR Local) to work through what clients should be checking before they sign, and what the three of them would walk away from.

The conversation examines the red flags first. Megan's number one is time in business, since agencies open and close inside six months and leave clients convinced marketing does not work. Ashley wants to know what the reporting looks like and how the customer service is actually quantified, because weekly contact is the most oversold promise in the industry. Emily watches for whether they can explain SEO in plain terms rather than hiding behind an analogy.

They also get into custom SEO versus packages, the monthly report Koa once reviewed that contained a personality profile and no record of any work, getting fired by clients whose own intake was broken, the six percent close rate no amount of leads could fix, and why keyword tracking tools keep getting less accurate.

🎯 What You'll Learn:

The first question to ask before hiring a marketing agency
Why average client tenure tells you more than a portfolio
The three questions to ask about reporting and customer service
Why an agency that only speaks in analogies is a warning sign
Why packages often serve clients better than custom scopes
How to spot when the problem is your close rate, not your leads
Why clients stop opening reporting dashboards after month two
Why keyword tracking tools are getting less reliable
How agencies are moving from rankings to conversions
Why AI is making marketing more complex, not easier to do alone

Whether you're about to hire an agency, currently unhappy with one, run an agency yourself, or handle marketing in-house, this episode gives you a working checklist of red flags plus the questions three agency owners would ask if they were the ones buying.

🎧 Tune in to hear why the most useful signal about an agency has nothing to do with their case studies.