ShanghaiZhan: All Things Global Marketing, Advertising, Tech & Platforms

How can brands visually connect with Chinese consumers? What cultural codes effectively resonate with consumers, leading to trial and purchase? Today, we speak with Panos Dimitropoulos, a seasoned semiotician and cultural strategy expert. Panos helps brands connect culturally in China. He spent over a decade in China, leading Kantar's cultural intelligence team and guiding clients through China's evolving symbolic landscape. He's also the founder of Two Words Agency.

1. What exactly is semiotics? Why should marketers care?
2. What does it mean to see cultural codes in daily life? How can strategists start training themselves to do this, or should they leave it to the experts?
3. Why are brands looking so similar? Is social media making an impact?
4. How influential is the format to semiotics?
5. Why are semiotic interpretations subject to context?
6. Has the Chinese cultural codified context changed or resurfaced over time?
7. How do semiotics work in bottom funnel communications?
8.  Can you provide some cultural semiotic examples?
9.  How can semiotics help Brand China export itself to the world?
10. How can one learn more about semiotics?
11. What's behind your agency name, "Two Words"?
12. What's the difference between brand anthropology and semiotics?
13. Can brands influence culture?
14. Is there a glimpse into the future of Brand China?
15. Any recommendations for BFAs who may be interested in semiotics?
16. What's the impact of AI on semiotics?

Panos on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/thepdconcept/
Two Words Agency: https://www.twowords.agency/

Read more about Semiotics:
1. Roland Barthes: "Image-Music Text" https://www.amazon.com/Image-Music-Text-Roland-Barthes/dp/0374521360
2.  Jean Baudrillard: "Simulacra and Simulations"
https://www.amazon.com/Simulacra-Simulation-Body-Theory-Materialism/dp/0472065211
3.  Walter Benjamin:  "The Work of Art in the Age of Its Technological Reproductibilty" https://www.amazon.com/Technological-Reproducibility-Other-Writings-Media/dp/0674024451

For everything ShanghaiZhan:  http://zhanstation.com/

Bryce on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brycewhitwam/
Ali on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/alikazmi/

China has become a country obsessed with wellness.  Over the past few episodes, we have had several guests highlight the growing importance of wellness, whether it relates to fitness or changes in the country's demographics.  We thought we'd take the opportunity to take a deeper look at wellness.  According to a McKinsey study, 87% of Chinese consumers consider wellness a top priority in their lives.  Why is wellness such an important topic these days in China?  Is this something that all brands should be incorporating into their communications? 

To discuss the growing importance of wellness for brands, we are proud to welcome back Henry Shen, Chief Strategy Officer at McCann Health Greater China. Henry brings over 19 years of experience, including business strategy, brand communication, and digital integration. Henry and the team at McCann Health serve many of the leading pharma brands and are based in Shanghai. Henry is not just a supporter of physical, but also mental wellness.  Henry truly embraces wellness as a licensed holistic therapist.

1.  Why has wellness become a thing in China?

2.  What do you see as some of the significant trends as consumers are prioritizing wellness?

3. What?  A Sleep Retreat?  Let's Go!

4.  What is meant by a Health Operating System? Where is the HOS?

5. Is wellness just a young person's thing, or is it embraced by all age and income groups?

6. If wellness is increasing, why are gyms closing?

7.  How can companies embrace mental wellness in China? How important is it?

8. How can young students transferring into the working world manage stress, esp. in the advertising business?

9. How can non-wellness-focused brands embrace wellness? Can you give me some examples?

10.  How can you be innovative in wellness?

11. What can brands do to take advantage of China's aging population?


Henry Shen On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shenhan/

About McCann Health China: https://ipghealth.com/network/mccann-health-china


For everything ShanghaiZhan:  http://zhanstation.com/

Got a Question? Access Our Mailbox:  https://syracuseuniversity.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_6StjsljIEPkXt3M

ShanghaiZhan Theme Music:  by Bryce Whitwam
https://soundcloud.com/bryce-r-whitwam/bad-cough-syrup?si=cfb30a6e0c0e459da78b912bf60825ac

Bryce on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brycewhitwam/
Ali on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/alikazmi/

Over the past decade, women in China have become a driving force (pun intended) in car purchases, from compact EVs to high-end luxury vehicles. But how are brands adapting their marketing to meet the needs of female consumers? What trends are shaping their buying decisions?  

To help us unpack this, we’re joined by Janice Kok, Head of Strategy, and Reiko Wu, Planning Director, both at GREY & AKQA China. Janice is a seasoned strategist with over 20 years of experience in brand and marketing strategy, particularly in the Chinese market. Janice and Reiko recently released a white paper, “Her Choice, Her Ride, The Rise of Female Automobile Power in China.”

1.  What's the big macro trend in the Chinese auto market right now?  Are Gen Z turning away from car ownership?
2. Can you tell us about the methodology of the study? Who did you talk to, and why did you release this report?
3.  What are the essential things you focus on to appeal to women in advertising?  How do you keep a gender balance?
4.  How do you specifically communicate attributes to women in social media? What's the role of influencers?
5. Does domestic travel and China's discovery influence car purchase amongst women?  What's the role of domestic well-being?
6. Are there some brands or particular models that are more female-oriented?
7.  Foreign brands are taking a beating in China, can targeting specific groups improve sales?
8.  How are Chinese consumers different from their counterparts in other parts of the world?

Janice Kok on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janicekok/
Reiko Wu on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/reikowu/
White Paper Link: https://bit.ly/3XKHRtR

About GREY & AKQA CHINA: https://www.linkedin.com/company/grey-china/

For everything ShanghaiZhan:  http://zhanstation.com/

Got a Question? Access Our Mailbox:  https://syracuseuniversity.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_6StjsljIEPkXt3M

ShanghaiZhan Theme Music:  by Bryce Whitwam
https://soundcloud.com/bryce-r-whitwam/bad-cough-syrup?si=cfb30a6e0c0e459da78b912bf60825ac

Bryce on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brycewhitwam/
Ali on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/alikazmi/

4 out of the top 8 Apps on the US Apple Store come from China. Many are shopping platforms such as SHEIN, Temu and TikTok Shop.  These platforms have strong algorithms, massive supply chain networks, and seemingly bottomless investment pockets. Is the West slowly becoming addicted to Chinese-style online shopping?  We talked to Ed Sander, who is the co-founder of ChinaTalk, a Dutch service provider specializing in knowledge transfer about China. Ed also writes for the TechBuzz China substack.

1. You arrange business tours in China. Tell us about the upcoming Spring Exclusive Investor Electric Vehicle Trip.  Is it too late to sign up?

2. Why has TikTok Shop struggled to get traction in the U.S. while it's been so wildly successful in SE Asia? 

3. How can brands make TikTok Shop work in the U.S.?  What's the magic formula?  Will it come from live commerce?

4.  Are some markets more influenced by cultural differences that help drive livestream shopping success?  Or are Chinese just more open to new experiences? Do you think brands should engage in livestream shopping?

5. Do you think TikTok Shop makes adjustments on their platform to make shopping more palatable?

6. Is there still a place for brands or livestream commerce for cheap, impulsive products?

7.  Why are you so bullish on the growth of Temu?  How will they adjust for impending Trump tariffs?

8.  How will Temu and SHEIN impact global markets in Europe?

9. Who has the best chance of success, SHEIN, Temu or TikTok Shop?

10. What is happening with Meituan's Keeta?  How will it dominate in food delivery?

Ed Sander on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/edsander/
Tech Buzz China:  https://substack.com/@techbuzzchina
Exclusive Investor EV Trip Details:  https://techbuzzchina.substack.com/p/join-the-tech-buzz-china-spring-2025

For everything ShanghaiZhan:  http://zhanstation.com/

Got a Question? Access Our Mailbox:  https://syracuseuniversity.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_6StjsljIEPkXt3M

ShanghaiZhan Theme Music:  by Bryce Whitwam
https://soundcloud.com/bryce-r-whitwam/bad-cough-syrup?si=cfb30a6e0c0e459da78b912bf60825ac

Bryce on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brycewhitwam/
Ali on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/alikazmi/

It's time to open our listener mail! We solicited questions on LinkedIn and WeChat and are ready to answer your questions about China marketing and advertising. We're joined with China's leading brand strategist consultant, Stephen Drummond. Steve is an industry legend who has worked for agencies and clients. He's now a freelance brand consultant, based in Shanghai:

1. Question: 1: Are brands in China talking more about brand building these days?
2. Question 2:  How do we keep our brand at the top of people's minds when most people ignore ads?
3. Question 3:  Do eCommerce systems in China with immediate links from ads and offer purchases mean that Chinese marketers are performance-based and do not need long-term brand building?
4. Question 4: Would you say livestreaming is overhyped? Does it cheapen the brand?
5. Question 5: We're an electronics brand. Should we build a loyalty platform?
6. Question 6: What's the future of traditional retail in Shanghai? Will more stores close?
7. Question 7: Given today's economic climate, what types of brands or categories show growth in China?

Steve Drummond on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephendrummond/

For everything ShanghaiZhan:  http://zhanstation.com/

Got a Question? Access Our Mailbox:  https://syracuseuniversity.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_6StjsljIEPkXt3M

ShanghaiZhan Theme Music:  by Bryce Whitwam
https://soundcloud.com/bryce-r-whitwam/bad-cough-syrup?si=cfb30a6e0c0e459da78b912bf60825ac

Bryce on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brycewhitwam/
Ali on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/alikazmi/

We challenge the narrative surrounding China's economic slowdown to reveal an unexpected truth: today's market conditions might be ideal for patient brand builders. Alex Duncan, marketing consultant, former co-founder of a Chinese social media platform and a 15-year China veteran, shares fresh insights from his recent return to Shanghai, making a compelling case for why now – when consumer confidence is at historic lows and competitors are scrambling for quick sales – might be the perfect moment for strategic brand entry. This episode offers a masterclass on turning market challenges into long-term opportunities in the world's second-largest economy, from the paradox of convenience-killing convenience stores to why discounting is destroying brand value.

1. After 15 years away from China and 18 months away, what dramatic changes did you see?
2. How are people coping with the economic slowdown?
3.  What aspects of China Speed do you miss now living abroad?
4. Does China speed equate to China efficiency?
5. Does China's slowdown turn into a spark moment to become more efficient?
6. Is the slowdown a reflection of China becoming more of a mature market?
7. Should this all be about brand building during slower times?
8. Will this impact lower funnel sales and less brand search as consumers spend less and save more?
9.  Have the digital platforms made it too easy (and challenging) to build brands, and as a result, brands have become too complacent?
10. Is this the best time to enter the China market?
11. How do you encourage consumers to spend money during times like this?
12. What's with your book, Alex? When can we see it?

Alex Duncan on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/acjduncan/
HBR Article Mentioned in Episode: https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/item.aspx?num=35885

For everything ShanghaiZhan:  http://zhanstation.com/
Got a Question? Access Our Mailbox:  https://syracuseuniversity.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_6StjsljIEPkXt3M

ShanghaiZhan Theme Music:  by Bryce Whitwam
https://soundcloud.com/bryce-r-whitwam/bad-cough-syrup?si=cfb30a6e0c0e459da78b912bf60825ac

Bryce on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brycewhitwam/
Ali on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/alikazmi/

In this report, it's called the 20/80 rule. Are we going to see a lot of brands exiting the Chinese market, or are there still opportunities?  We're back for round #2, covering Totem Media's 2025 Marketing & Media Trends. Today, we talk about the 25 considerations, although we go through all of them, just the key ones. We're honored to have Totem Media Founder Chris Baker back on the show. Joining Chris is Minnie Wang, Senior Reporter for Campaign Asia. Minnie covers the marketing and advertising issues of Greater China for the magazine.

1.  Looking at the considerations, #4 "Brands Still in Disbelief" - Can you explain this one?
2. Consideration #6: Experiences on the Upswing & #7 Active Hobbies are Growing - How will this translate for brands?
3. What's the 20/80 Rule? Will we expect many brands to leave the China market?
4. #14: The Great Retail Remix - How will retail survive the economic crunch?  Is there anyone winning?
5.  And for a bit of optimism...'#21 - China is Stil a Growth Market' - are you still bullish on China?


About Totem Media: https://www.talktototem.com/
Download the Totem 2025 Report Here:  https://www.talktototem.com/china-insights/2025-china-marketing-and-media-review
About Campaign Asia:  https://www.campaignasia.com/

Chris Baker on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cbaker19/
Minnie Wang on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/minniew/

For everything ShanghaiZhan:  http://zhanstation.com/
Got a Question? Access Our Mailbox:  https://syracuseuniversity.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_6StjsljIEPkXt3M

ShanghaiZhan Theme Music:  by Bryce Whitwam
https://soundcloud.com/bryce-r-whitwam/bad-cough-syrup?si=cfb30a6e0c0e459da78b912bf60825ac

Bryce on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brycewhitwam/
Ali on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/alikazmi/

Word on the street that Chinese app Xiaohongshu or Rednote, as it is now called, was not expecting nor prepared for the 500K and counting American TikTok Refugees that have downloaded and migrated to the app.  Is Rednote a short-lived thing? Will people eventually move back to TikTok, or has the West entered the world of "App Fluidity," where communities move from place to place without little concern for the platform they are on?  To discuss this, we are joined by Shanghai-based Wai Social's Founder, Olivia Plotnick. 

1.  What is Xiaohongshu or Rednote? How is it different from TikTok?
2. What sparked people to migrate there, and why Rednote and not Lemon8?
3.  Are we ready for a truly global platform, returning to the LinkedIn days?
4.  Have we come to the point where we will see more fluidity of platform users?
5.  Are people abandoning Meta platforms because of their complexity or is this the preferred GenZ user experience?
6.  What about the role of community and express authenticity?
7.  Will YouTube have a resurgence in the U.S.? Who will win out?
8.  How can Xiaohongshu become such a community place?
9.  What are the most important aspects of this incredible cultural collision?
10.  How will the Chinese authority react to this amazing soft power opportunity?
11.  What keeps people back when very few people post? What's the role of entertainment? Is there a balance?
12. Is this the right time for Chinese brands to reach out to Western audiences?
13. Is the whole "Rednote movement" a passing fad?
14. Will App Fluidity kill brands?


Olivia on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/olivia-plotnick/
About Wai Social: https://www.waisocial.com/
Who What Wai on Substack: https://whowhatwai.substack.com/


For everything ShanghaiZhan:  http://zhanstation.com/
Got a Question? Access Our Mailbox:  https://syracuseuniversity.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_6StjsljIEPkXt3M

ShanghaiZhan Theme Music:  by Bryce Whitwam
https://soundcloud.com/bryce-r-whitwam/bad-cough-syrup?si=cfb30a6e0c0e459da78b912bf60825ac

Bryce on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brycewhitwam/
Ali on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/alikazmi/

Welcome to Season 4!  Today, we're also celebrating the 10th anniversary of the 2025 Totem China's Marketing & Media Trends Report. We hope to solve the biggest challenge in China marketing: is performance marketing, and are brands nowadays just focused on short-term sales gains?  According to Totem's report, 48% of marketers plan to decrease their 2025 marketing budgets, and 31% now rank sales conversion as their top objective. Amid this, an economy that's shaping up to be the "new normal," a normal that surprisingly looks like everywhere else in the world.  To discuss, Totem's Chris Baker joins us again this year, along with OMD China's General Manager, Ahle Kuang.  We try to solve all the marketing problems in 50 minutes!

1.  What are some of the big things that stood out for you in this year's report?
2.  Are some categories safe, or are there decreases across the board?
3. Have local companies found a way to grow brands and increase market share simultaneously?
4. How do you balance the desire for short-term sales with building long-term brand equity?
5.  For China, is brand equity purely driven by product innovation?
6. Do Chinese products need to live beyond a certain period to be considered a brand?
7. Are there things brands should avoid doing in the 2025 context?: Positioning is Everything
8. Can signature global brands in China grow with products designed for a global audience?

About Totem Media: https://www.talktototem.com/
Download the Totem 2025 Report Here:  https://www.talktototem.com/china-insights/2025-china-marketing-and-media-review
About OMD:  https://www.omd.com/

For everything ShanghaiZhan:  http://zhanstation.com/
Got a Question? Access Our Mailbox:  https://syracuseuniversity.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_6StjsljIEPkXt3M

ShanghaiZhan Theme Music:  by Bryce Whitwam
https://soundcloud.com/bryce-r-whitwam/bad-cough-syrup?si=cfb30a6e0c0e459da78b912bf60825ac

Bryce on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brycewhitwam/
Ali on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/alikazmi/

How has consumer research evolved since the advent of social media? Can social media drive insights, or do we still need interviews and focus groups?  We speak with Wang Tao, who is the Head of Strategy & Innovation for the Shanghai-based agency Target Social 仟传网络. Target Social is China's largest full-service social performance consultancy, providing a complete range of services that help brands take control of their social media investment.

1.  What's your current job, and what does Target Social do?
2. What's the difference between your consulting role at your current vs. previous job?
3. How do you extract data from social media platforms that help deliver insights?
4.  How is market research evolving?  Is it just social listening, or is there more to it?
5.  Is social listening a good measurement, and you don't need focus groups or interviews?
6.  How do social platforms collect data for passive users?
7.  Why do the algorithms seem incorrect about one's profile?
8.  Pushing surprise content remains an advantage for advertisers.
9.  What are the skills necessary for modern market researchers?
10. How do you teach insights, and how is it possible to identify them?
 
About Target Social (仟传网络): https://tarsocial.com/en/international
Wang Tao on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tao-wang-b602619b/

For everything ShanghaiZhan:  http://zhanstation.com/
Got a Question? Access Our Mailbox:  https://syracuseuniversity.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_6StjsljIEPkXt3M

ShanghaiZhan Theme Music:  by Bryce Whitwam
https://soundcloud.com/bryce-r-whitwam/bad-cough-syrup?si=cfb30a6e0c0e459da78b912bf60825ac

Bryce on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brycewhitwam/
Ali on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/alikazmi/