Shmoozic Biz

Oasis and Sony are fighting to stop rare live recordings linked to the Gallagher brothers from being sold at auction but the legal question is not as simple as “who owns the music?”

UK music lawyer and former Abbey Road/AIR Studios engineer Lance Phillips joins music attorney and Shmoozic Biz host Bill Hochberg to break down the Oasis tapes dispute. The auction reportedly included 209 DAT tapes, analogue cassettes and MiniDiscs containing live performances, soundchecks, rehearsals and other potentially unreleased Oasis material.

The key legal distinction: a person may own the physical cassette or DAT tape without owning the copyright in the recordings on it. But where do performers’ rights, copyright in sound recordings, songwriting rights, mechanical licences, trademarks and name-and-likeness protections fit in especially when the recordings were made live rather than in a studio?

Timestamps
0:00  Who owns the Oasis tapes: the cassette or the music?
0:43  Inside Oasis’ legal fight over rare live recordings
2:04  Why 200+ DAT tapes could be worth up to £1.6 million
4:21  The Oasis auction: guitars, setlists, memorabilia and tapes
6:37  Can Oasis or Sony claim ownership of the physical tapes?
8:48  Owning a physical recording is not the same as owning copyright
10:51  UK copyright law: who is the “producer” of a sound recording?
12:21  Studio recordings vs. live recordings: why the distinction matters
14:32  Why live Oasis tapes create a more difficult ownership case
16:56  Bootlegs, performers’ rights and consent to record an artist
19:46  Why Oasis sought an injunction against the auction
21:24  The real concern: unreleased Oasis recordings reaching the public
22:43  Can the auction seller sell the DAT tapes without selling the rights?
24:02  The guitar analogy: physical property versus intellectual property
25:23  Could Sony turn the recordings into an official Oasis release?
27:21  Why an injunction is unusual in music memorabilia disputes
28:21  Lost masters, archive finds and the value of unreleased music
33:28  Wolfgang’s Vault, board tapes and the bootlegger problem
34:18  Songwriting rights, mechanical licences and unreleased Oasis songs
37:17  Can someone buy the tapes and resell them legally?
38:44  The legal weapons Oasis could use to stop exploitation
39:31  Why Oasis and Sony may struggle to block the sale entirely
40:47  The Noel Gallagher trousers: design rights, trademarks and memorabilia
42:25  The internet problem: once unreleased music is uploaded, it is everywhere
43:33  Should labels release the mistakes, outtakes and humanity fans want?
44:34  A former engineer’s story about unreleased live recordings
48:02  AI restoration, audio clean-up and the future value of archive tapes
51:48  Will Oasis settle the case privately?
52:22  Closing thoughts


The conversation explores:
The Oasis and Sony dispute over rare live recordings
Who can own the physical tapes versus the copyright
Why live bootlegs are legally different from studio masters
UK performers’ rights and consent to record live performances
Whether unreleased Oasis songs can be commercially exploited
Why auction-house disclaimers may not solve the legal problem
The value of archival music, demos, alternate mixes and live recordings
How bootlegs can spread online permanently after a single upload
Wolfgang’s Vault and the legal risks around unreleased concert recordings
How AI restoration tools could make old, rough recordings commercially valuable
Why the dispute may end in a confidential settlement

For news, views and shmooze you can use about the business and law of music, subscribe to Shmoozic Biz on YouTube and follow us on Instagram, Spotify (Video), and TikTok... links in the profile.  

Bill Hochberg is a music and media lawyer at Raines Feldman Littrell LLP and he writes regularly in Forbes and other top publications on the business and law of music. 

Our musical theme is "8 Church Birds" by billeeto. https://tinyurl.com/billeeto

DISCLAIMER: This program and the associated written materials are provided for informational purposes only and are not intended, and must not be taken, as legal advice on any particular set of facts or circumstances.

Jason Isbell, David Lowery and other musicians are suing Suno over claims that the AI music platform uses artists’ identities including their names, voices, likenesses and distinctive styles, without permission.

In this episode of Shmoozic Biz, copyright litigator Bob Shore joins music attorneys Bill Hochberg and Sami Kazi to unpack the case, which takes a different route from the growing number of AI copyright lawsuits. Instead of focusing on copyright infringement, the plaintiffs rely on the right of publicity, the right to control commercial use of a person’s identity.

The key legal question: can the case survive copyright preemption, or will a court rule that the claims are really about copyrighted songs and recordings?

We also discuss the industry implications: what this case could mean for record labels, music publishers, artists, managers, AI developers, voice-cloning tools and future licensing negotiations around generative AI music.

Chapters: 

00:00 – Intro & Why This AI Lawsuit is Different
01:30 – Meet the Panel 
02:30 – Who are Jason Isbell and David Lowery?
04:02 – "The Borg": Writing Complaints for the Press vs. Judges
07:22 – Breaking Down the CBS News Coverage & Testing Suno
11:23 – What is Copyright Preemption?
15:14 – Artist Identity & Style vs. Derivative Works
17:53 – The Advertising Exception: Mary J. Blige & Maloney v. T3 Media
23:50 – Legal Precedent: The Romantics vs. No Doubt (Video Game Cases)
24:39 – Musical Interlude: "What I Like About You" (Lawyer Edition)
28:20 – Suno’s AI Model & The 3 Arguments to Avoid Preemption
33:45 – Major Label Licensing & What This Means for the Music Biz
36:25 – David Lowery, Cracker’s "Low" Video & Final Thoughts

Key Topics: Suno AI, Jason Isbell, David Lowery, copyright preemption, right of publicity, artist likeness rights, AI music training, voice cloning, soundalike recordings, music licensing and entertainment law.

For news, views and shmooze you can use about the business and law of music, subscribe to Shmoozic Biz on YouTube and follow us on Instagram, Spotify (Video), and TikTok... links in the profile.  

Bill Hochberg is a music and media lawyer at Raines Feldman Littrell LLP and he writes regularly in Forbes and other top publications on the business and law of music. 

Our musical theme is "8 Church Birds" by billeeto. https://tinyurl.com/billeeto

DISCLAIMER: This program and the associated written materials are provided for informational purposes only and are not intended, and must not be taken, as legal advice on any particular set of facts or circumstances.

On this episode, Michael Dorf, founder of City Winery and the Knitting Factory, pulls back the curtain on what it actually takes to build and scale a unique live music venue without losing its soul, especially in today's challenging times.  Music lawyers Bill Hochberg and Elliot Resnik have front row seats for Dorf's unforgettable tales of near-disasters and soaring successes. We hear about Prince showing up at 3 a.m. and playing until 6 a.m., after blowing off Beyonce. And Avant Garde musician John Zorn shouting curses from the stage at Lou Reed and a chatty Madeleine Albright, causing secret service agents to draw their guns and what went down next. Wild stories mix with sage advice on how to not only survive but thrive in tough times. That's what's on the menu for this episode. 

Chapters

00:00 - Intro: How Prince Blew Off Beyonce
02:28 - Creating City Winery 
07:07 - Intimate Venues Where Artists and Fans Connect
09:30 - Venue Design and Acoustic Quality
11:53 - Opening the Knitting Factory
14:08 - Downtown music and legendary artists
16:30 - Lou Reed Secret Service story
18:57 - John Zorn Story
21:26 - Carnegie Hall Music Education Tributes
26:09 - City Winery Expansion Challenges
28:25 - Small Venues Versus Stadiums
30:47 - Legal Perspectives on Live Entertainment
33:13 - Prince Concert Backstage Moments
35:34 - Saving Music Venues
37:57 - Streaming Music Versus the Live Experience
45:01 - Ticket Pricing at a Venue
47:19 - GLP-1s and Shifting Restaurant Habits
49:43 - Rising Artist Cancellation Rates
52:07 - Performing Rights Organizations and Venue Royalties
59:16 - Independent Venue Financial Pressures
63:59 - Final thoughts: Future of Independent Music Venues

Shmoozic Biz host Bill Hochberg is a music and media lawyer at Raines Feldman Littrell LLP and he writes regularly in Forbes and other top publications on the business and law of music. 

Our musical theme is "8 Church Birds" by billeeto. https://tinyurl.com/billeeto

DISCLAIMER: This program and the associated written materials are provided for informational purposes only and are not intended, and must not be taken, as legal advice on any particular set of facts or circumstances.

In this episode, Michael Dorf, visionary music venue founder and operator, shares with music lawyers Bill Hochberg and Elliot Resnik some unforgettable tragi-comic stories about scary risks, near-disasters, and soaring successes with his City Winery clubs and the Knitting Factory venues that he founded and has operated for years. From mobbed-up Houston Street in the 1980s to City Winery’s five-star wine-and-dine-and-music experience on Manhattan's Pier 57, this conversation pulls back the curtain on what it actually takes to build and scale a live venue brand without losing its soul. Ultimately, this is a conversation about entrepreneurship, hospitality, and the irreplaceable charge of being in the room when something unforgettable happens, like when Prince, Lou Reed, John Zorn and many others blew the roof off of the place ... fun stuff. 

00:00 Introduction
01:28 The City Winery Model: Music, Wine, Food & Community
06:39 Designing a Venue People Can Feel
10:50 How Technology Changed the Music Industry
22:36 Building City Winery Through Recession, COVID & Expansion
27:11 How COVID Changed Live Music Venues
49:48 The Broken System Behind Live-Music Royalties
1:03:11 Can Independent Venues Compete and Survive?
1:07:04 Michael Dorf’s Legacy: Equity in Live Music

You’ll hear:
How a tiny avant‑garde room became ground zero for downtown music

Why sound, sightlines, wine glasses, bathrooms, and old brick walls all matter to the bottom line

Why Michael is more passionate about fixing PRO royalties than selling “a f*ckload of wine and tickets”

Ultimately, this is a conversation about entrepreneurship, hospitality, and the irreplaceable charge of being in the room when something unforgettable happens and why there’s still “no app for that.”

In This Episode:

The Knitting Factory years
How Michael signed a lease on Houston Street in 1986 and turned a scrappy, avant‑garde club into a cultural hub for artists like John Zorn, Sonic Youth, Ornette Coleman, Philip Glass, and Brian Eno.


Inventing City Winery
The moment a barrel of wine in California, a need for better food and seating, and a two‑hour “all-in” night out fused into the concept for City Winery—part concert venue, part working winery, part restaurant, part private‑event space.


Designing for the senses
Why Michael obsessed over real wood, reclaimed beams, barrel staves, acoustics, lighting, and even bathrooms to create a hedonistic, intimate experience where 300 people can all feel connected to the artist.


The Prince & Beyoncé story
Inside the legendary Purple Week at City Winery: Prince circling the venue at 3 a.m., playing until nearly 6 a.m. on some nights—and blowing off a night where Beyoncé was waiting in the back room for a show that never happened.


Why 300 seats is a magic number
The capacity where an artist can see every face in the room, why that intimacy matters, and how it differentiates City Winery from arenas and stadiums.


Surviving crises and shifting habits
How City Winery navigated the 2008 financial crisis, the COVID shutdowns, artist cancellations, changing work patterns, and the competition from “stay on the couch” entertainment.


The brutal economics of small and mid‑size venues
Thin margins, rising real estate, fickle demand, and why independent venues struggle even as stadium tours thrive—and how Michael thinks about value, pricing, and experience in that environment.



Scaling without losing the soul
What it took to expand City Winery to cities like Chicago, Nashville, Atlanta, Boston, and Philadelphia, while preserving intimacy, authenticity, and artist trust.

For news, views and shmooze you can use about the business and law of music, subscribe to Shmoozic Biz on YouTube and follow us on Instagram, Spotify (Video), and TikTok... links in the profile.  

Bill Hochberg is a music and media lawyer at Raines Feldman Littrell LLP and he writes regularly in Forbes and other top publications on the business and law of music. 

Our musical theme is "8 Church Birds" by billeeto. https://tinyurl.com/billeeto

DISCLAIMER: This program and the associated written materials are provided for informational purposes only and are not intended, and must not be taken, as legal advice on any particular set of facts or circumstances.

Blood, knives, a car trunk, dragging a dead body … there’s an eery similarity between images in music videos by pop superstar D4vd and facts alleged by prosecutors in the murder and sexual crimes case against him. On this Shmoozic Biz episode, music attorneys Bill Hochberg and Sami Kazi are joined by ace criminal defense attorney Lou Shapiro, who examines potential murder evidence from the music and art of D4vd, as well as evidence of his music business promotional activities around the time of the alleged murder of Celeste Rivas Hernandez… and whether any of it is admissible as evidence.  Lou is known for aggressively, creatively, and successfully representing defendants in state and federal criminal cases and he knows the system from the inside out. The intersection between criminal law and music law is a busy intersection indeed these days and we crash right into it.   

Please don't forget to subscribe!  It really helps us out. 

Table of Contents

00:00 — Can D4vd’s Music Videos Be Used as Evidence?
00:35 –  Meet Lou Shapiro, Criminal Defense Attorney
01:05 — How Strong Is the Murder Case?
02:04 — Texts, Location Data and Alleged Motive
04:09 — Record Deals, Endorsements and Morals Clauses
09:07 — “Romantic Homicide” as Evidence
11:40 — Lessons From the Young Thug and Jam Master Jay Trials
15:52 — D4vd’s Reported $19 Million Record Deal
16:53 — Will D4vd Testify—and Can He Get a Fair Jury?
20:28 — Prison Exposure and a Possible Defense Strategy
24:21 — Plea Deal, Special Circumstances and the Death Penalty

For news, views and shmooze you can use about the business and law of music subscribe to Shmoozic Biz on YouTube and follow us on Instagram, Spotify, and TikTok... links in the profile.  

Bill Hochberg is a music and media lawyer at Raines Feldman Littrell LLP and he writes regularly in Forbes and other top publications on the business and law of music. 

Our musical theme is "8 Church Birds" by billeeto. https://tinyurl.com/billeeto

DISCLAIMER: This program and the associated written materials are provided for informational purposes only and are not intended, and must not be taken, as legal advice on any particular set of facts or circumstances.

Pharrell and Chad Breakup – From Music Biz Divorce to Copyright War

What began as a messy business dispute between legendary production partners Chad Hugo and Pharrell Williams has escalated into a much stranger fight: who actually created the music behind The Neptunes.

In this episode of Shmoozic Biz, music attorney and journalist Bill Hochberg and his associate Sami Kazi break down the amended lawsuit Hugo filed against Pharrell Williams — and why the case now raises serious copyright ownership questions.

Originally filed as a partnership dispute over roughly $1 million in unpaid proceeds, the lawsuit has now been expanded to include copyright claims involving eight songs, including tracks from Rosalía’s Motomami album.

Beyond the legal fight, the case also raises a provocative question about modern pop production: who actually creates the music—and who gets the credit?

You can also read more about the case in my Forbes article here: https://tinyurl.com/2p9kdb6v

Musical theme is "8 Church Birds" by Billeeto.  https://tinyurl.com/billeeto

Chapters:
0:00 Teaser
0:23  Introduction
1:21 Lawsuit Makes Headlines 
2:24 Combing The Complaint
5:37 Statute of Limitations Problems
6:27 Who Created The Music?
8:12 Is Pharrell A Real Musician? 
9:00 The 12-Bar Blues Fiasco
10:16 Musicians Who Can’t Read Music
11:15 Producers Who Aren’t Musicians
12:10 Summary and Outro

If you enjoy deep dives into the music business, law, and industry power dynamics, subscribe to Shmoozic Biz with Bill Hochberg wherever you get your podcasts.  Bill also writes in Forbes on the business and law of music. Here’s a link: https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhochberg/

And follow Bill Hochberg’s Shmoozic Biz on social media: 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/whochberg/
Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/billeeto/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bill.hochberg

Did Suno just use Blink-182 or Green Day tracks as training data to generate a generic pop punk ditty from California? Can anyone really figure out exactly which human songs, and how much of each, went into an AI song? Our guest Matt Adell, COO of Musical.ai (and former head of Beatport), says, yes they can. Their program determines who should get paid and who ought to get attribution when robots write songs based on human music. He shares with music attorneys Bill Hochberg and Sami Kazi where this new and interesting tech came from and where AI training is going in the music industry on this episode of Shmoozic Biz.

Table Of Contents:
0:00 Intro: the 12% Blink-182 Solution
0:58 Meet Matt Adell: Music Tech Legend
1:58 Matt’s History: From Napster to Beatport to Musical AI
5:05 Music Tech From Synthesizers to AI Music
10:29 The Jorja Smith AI Vocal Case
13:26 How Musical AI "Unscrambles the Egg"
15:00 Master vs. Composition Attribution Tech
18:05 Deterministic Similarity vs. "Magical Thinking"
26:10 Challenges in Detecting AI-Enhanced Tracks
33:40 Major Label Lawsuits vs. Indie Attribution
35:25 Why Licensing is Feasible, Not Inconvenient
35:00 Future Implications for the Music Industry

For news, views and shmooze you can use about the business and law of music, subscribe to Shmoozic Biz on YouTube and follow us on Instagram, Spotify (Video), and TikTok... links in the profile.

Bill Hochberg is a music and media lawyer at Raines Feldman Littrell LLP and he writes regularly in Forbes and other top publications on the business and law of music.

Our musical theme is "8 Church Birds" by billeeto. https://tinyurl.com/billeeto

DISCLAIMER: This program and the associated written materials are provided for informational purposes only and are not intended, and must not be taken, as legal advice on any particular set of facts or circumstances.

Joining Bill Hochberg and Sami Kazi on this episode is music attorney Dina LaPolt, who reps major artists and songwriters and advocates on Capitol Hill for laws like the NO FAKES Act, designed to protect against "deepfakes" and to give creators and content owners new property rights over voices and images separate from copyright and trademark law. Dina kicks things off by sharing some sage advice she took from the late music law titan Joel Katz that has steered her throughout her career. Then the conversation takes some fascinating and sometimes surprising twists and turns, like when Dina says its the Republicans who are the intellectual property party, not the Dems. "This is the time to get the No Fakes Act passed because intellectual property is a Republican issue," she says. After the mid-terms it may be too late, she asserts. Bill and Sami are not necessarily buying all of that, but its a provocative point to consider. This insight-filled convo is a must-not-miss no matter on which side of the political aisle you sit or where you stand on AI music, deepfakes, parody with digital replicas, Silicon Valley influence on Music Row, and other issues rocking the music biz today.

n this episode Bill Hochberg and Sami Kazi get Shark Tanky on a new app called GigLogic designed by musicians for musicians. The app's developers Craig A. Meyer and Gary Arbuthnot say their software will help an act figure out which gigs to play and which to stay away from if they want to succeed on the road (or the high seas). GigLogic is supposed to help predict whether shows are going to be profitable or money-losers on both larger and smaller scale tours. Will this app result in some cities and towns around the country and around the world seeing fewer and fewer tours coming through because the tour economics just don't make sense? We get into that and other interesting aspects and implications of tour accounting software like GigLogic.

Table Of Contents

00:00 - Introduction And Overview
02:18 - Gig Logic Dashboard and Show Profiles
04:37 - Tour Economics and Market Selection Strategies
06:57 - Tour Deficits and Independent Artist Touring Realities
09:24 - Gig Status Categories and Budget Adjustments
11:49 - Official Launch
14:07 - Travel, Lodging, and Historical Touring Comparisons
16:30 - Multi-Ensemble Show Profiles and A/B Scenario Comparisons
18:55 - Founders' Backgrounds and Closing Remarks

For news, views and shmooze you can use about the business and law of music, subscribe to Shmoozic Biz on YouTube and follow us on Instagram, Spotify (Video), and TikTok... links in the profile.

Bill Hochberg is a music and media lawyer at Raines Feldman Littrell LLP and he writes regularly in Forbes and other top publications on the business and law of music.

Our musical theme is "8 Church Birds" by billeeto. https://tinyurl.com/billeeto

Headshot of Craig A. Meyer
https://www.pacificsymphony.org/artist-details/541/

DISCLAIMER: This program and the associated written materials are provided for informational purposes only and are not intended, and must not be taken, as legal advice on any particular set of facts or circumstances.

Independent labels and music distributors have increased their market share to an astonishing one third of the total global recorded music revenue pool, according to sources Bill Hochberg and Sami Kazi reveal on this episode. And the major labels want to take a slice or two of that share for themselves, so they've established indie distribution arms to co-exist with their major label distribution businesses. How does this all work and what's the best way for an artist or indie label to understand and deal with the situation? Find out what's on the menu for the majors and whether it's you!

Table of Content

00:05 Introduction: The rise of the independent music sector
00:47 Bad Bunny and the rise of fiercely independent artists
01:53 Virgin Music Group's history and role as UMG's independent arm
03:35 Major label independent distribution arms (The Orchard, ADA, Virgin)
05:23 UMG's strategic acquisitions: Downtown, CD Baby, and Fuga
06:14 The "craft beer" analogy for major-owned indie labels
06:57 The history of The Orchard and Sony's acquisition
08:36 AWOL (Artists Without A Label) and its history with Sony
09:44 Truly independent entities: Empire and Secretly Group
13:06 BMG's position as the "fourth major" with a full distribution stack
15:26 Upstream deals: Evolution and advice for artists shopping for deals
17:33 Conclusion: Will the majors remain dominant or will indies take over?

For news, views and shmooze you can use about the business and law of music, subscribe to Shmoozic Biz on YouTube and follow us on Instagram, Spotify (Video), and TikTok... links in the profile.

Bill Hochberg is a music and media lawyer at Raines Feldman Littrell LLP and he writes regularly in Forbes and other top publications on the business and law of music.

Our musical theme is "8 Church Birds" by billeeto. https://tinyurl.com/billeeto

Photo credits:
Bad_Bunny_2019_by_Glenn_Francis.jpg ([email protected])
Goose Island IPA
https://guruofbrew.com/mygooseipa3.JPG

DISCLAIMER: This program and the associated written materials are provided for informational purposes only and are not intended, and must not be taken, as legal or financial advice on any particular set of facts or circumstances.