Join the hosts for a conversation with Jon Miller, co-founder of Marketo and one of the most influential minds in modern marketing, on how AI, tactic fatigue, and buyer anonymity are forcing marketers to evolve faster than ever. Together they explore the cracks forming in legacy marketing automation and the rise of signal-based journeys. Jon breaks down why the next decade of marketing won’t look anything like the last.

This episode explains why marketers must shift from tactics to context, how AI can streamline operations without sacrificing creativity, and why sales and marketing alignment is still so painfully hard (and what might finally fix it). Jon also digs into the innovator’s dilemma facing big MarTech vendors, the resurgence of niche vertical plays, and the new skills marketers will need to thrive.

If you’ve ever felt like your marketing is losing its edge, this episode will redefine how you think about innovation, AI, and the future of go-to-market.

Chapters

00:00 Thanksgiving Reflections and Family Dynamics

02:59 The Evolution of Marketing Technology

06:01 The Impact of AI on Marketing Strategies

09:06 Tactic Fatigue and the Tragedy of the Commons

11:59 The Role of Specialization in Marketing

15:00 Training AI: The New Marketing Operations

19:59 Future of Marketing Jobs and Operations

20:34 The Role of AI in Marketing Operations

23:08 Evolving Skills in Marketing Operations

24:52 Sales and Marketing Alignment Challenges

27:05 Leveraging AI for Content Creation

30:19 Insights from Market Mapping

31:41 The Future of AI in B2B Marketing

34:27 Innovator's Dilemma in MarTech

39:22 Pricing Innovations in the AI Era

42:09 Personalizing Buyer Journeys with AI

References in the Show:

https://chiefmartec.com/2025/05/beyond-ai-assistants-how-ai-is-being-more-deeply-embedded-in-marketing-and-martech-stacks/ 

https://martech.org/the-three-forces-that-shaped-martech-in-2025/ 

Quote of the Show:

"Can your average field marketer now come along and just say, hey, AI, go make me a new webinar for this audience and for this segment? And it actually does it the right way.” - Jon Miller

Ways to Tune In:

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5GpM8myxsUinc5bfLIbjJz?si=0af576adfb8e49f8 
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-cheat-code/id1692445190 
• Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/cb0b3afa-063f-4f3b-96be-b98214c74912 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CheatCodePodcast