In this episode, Ryan Javanbakht joins Jason Tierney and Dr. Erin Elliott to break down one of the biggest issues in dental sleep medicine: patient follow-through on testing.

Most practices think they have a testing problem. They don’t; they have a communication problem.

Patients drop off because they don’t fully understand why it matters, what happens next, or what it will cost. Without that clarity, even motivated patients hesitate and disappear.

Sleep testing is the inflection point. It’s where patients either connect the dots and commit, or get confused and disappear. Clarity creates momentum. Confusion kills it.

What’s on the Menu:

Why Patients Drop Out of the Funnel
Ryan breaks down the real failure points: unclear communication, a lack of urgency around the problem, and poor expectation-setting regarding process and cost. When those pieces are missing, drop-off is inevitable.

The “Magical” Moment: Diagnosis
Dr. Elliott highlights the moment everything clicks, when patients see their results and connect the data to how they feel. That’s when urgency builds, motivation increases, and cost becomes less of a barrier.

Why Communication Beats Technology
Tools don’t drive case acceptance; conversations do. Patients move forward when they feel heard, understand the process, and know what to expect at each step.

The Two-Option Close That Works
Ryan shares a simple framework: give patients two clear paths, a traditional referral or an immediate home sleep test. Clear options reduce hesitation and increase follow-through.

Why Dental Patients Resist
Dental patients aren’t expecting a sleep conversation; they’re expecting a cleaning. That mismatch creates friction. The solution is to slow down, separate consults, and build trust before making recommendations.

How to Handle Objections Effectively
Ryan outlines a simple structure: empathize, clarify, isolate, respond. It keeps conversations human and builds trust instead of pressure.

The Power of “Selling the Next Step”
Dr. Elliott emphasizes a key shift: don’t sell treatment. Don’t even sell the test. Focus on the next step. That’s how momentum builds without overwhelming the patient.

Why Patients Need to “Want It”
The goal isn’t compliance, it’s ownership. When patients reach the point of “I want this” and “I need this,” moving forward becomes natural.

Clinical Concepts & Terminology

Home Sleep Test (HST)
A diagnostic tool that allows patients to test for sleep apnea at home, improving accessibility and completion rates.

Sleep Testing Funnel
The patient journey from awareness to treatment. Breakdowns at any stage reduce overall case acceptance.

Conversion Rate
The gap between patients referred for testing and those who actually complete it is a key measure of system effectiveness.

STOP-BANG Screening
A widely used screening tool to identify patients at risk for sleep apnea.

Professional Organizations & Collaboration

Third-Party Testing Partnerships
Services like SleepTest.com help streamline insurance verification, patient communication, test completion, and physician review—reducing friction across the process.

Featured Experts to Follow
Ryan C. Javanbakht: CEO of SleepTest.com, focused on improving access and conversion in sleep diagnostics

Recommended Tools & Resources

STOP-BANG Questionnaire
A simple way to begin identifying patients at risk for sleep apnea.

Home Sleep Testing (HST)
A patient-friendly diagnostic option that improves follow-through.

SleepTest CRM
A platform designed to manage patient communication, insurance verification, test coordination, and reporting.

Communication Frameworks
Empathize → Clarify → Isolate → Respond
Two-option close strategy
Consult-first workflow

In this episode, Jason Tierney and Dr. Erin Elliott talk with Dr. Johnny Ukich about the slow shift from focusing mainly on cavities and traditional pediatric care to recognizing the early signs of sleep-disordered breathing in kids.

What does it take for a busy pediatric dentist to start seeing airway differently?

For Dr. Ukich, that shift didn’t come from one lecture or a EUREKA! moment. It came through years of conversations, his father’s background in early orthodontic thinking, and eventually what he began noticing in his own child. Once the pieces connected, he started seeing open-mouth breathing, snoring, bedwetting, poor sleep quality, and arch development in a completely different light.

This is a grounded conversation for dentists who may not feel ready to treat every airway case, but do need to know what to look for. Dr. Ukich makes the case that awareness alone can change lives, especially when it leads to earlier questions, better screening, and stronger collaboration.

What’s on the Menu:

• A Real Conversion Story: Dr. Ukich shares how airway was not part of his early training and how it took years in practice before the dots finally connected.
• Why Personal Experience Changed Everything: Like many clinicians, the turning point came when he began seeing these patterns in his own child and could no longer dismiss them as isolated issues.
• What Early Treatment Started to Reveal: Once he began expanding earlier, he saw changes parents could notice quickly, including better nasal breathing, less bedwetting, and improved sleep.
• Screen Even If You Don’t Treat: One of the clearest takeaways is that pediatric dentists do not need every tool or every service in-house, but they do need to recognize the signs and start the conversation.
• How He Talks to Parents Without Sounding “Salesy”: Dr. Ukich focuses on sleep quality, growth, and what parents are actually seeing at home rather than jumping straight into treatment.
• Why This Has to Be a Team Approach: The episode highlights the need for collaboration with orthodontists, ENTs, lactation consultants, myofunctional therapists, and other providers.

The Value Add:

• It Makes Pediatric Airway Feel Practical: This episode shows what early airway awareness can look like in a real pediatric office, not just in theory.
• It Reminds Providers They Can Start Smaller: Dr. Ukich makes it clear that simply asking better questions and knowing when to refer can make a real difference.

Clinical Concepts & Terminology

• Pediatric Sleep Questionnaire (PSQ): A screening tool Dr. Ukich uses to identify symptoms that may point to sleep-disordered breathing.
• Early Expansion: Discussed as a way to support arch development, nasal breathing, and better sleep patterns when started young enough.
• Myobrace: A removable appliance mentioned as part of habit correction and functional development, especially around breathing and oral posture.
• Myofunctional Therapy: Referenced as part of follow-up care to help children use their lips, tongue, and oral muscles more effectively after expansion.
• Acoustic Rhinometry: A tool Dr. Ukich uses to help measure nasal capacity and airway function.
• Tongue-Tie Release: Discussed in the context of infant feeding, latch, and early oral development.

Professional Organizations & Collaboration

• AAPD Guidelines: Dr. Ukich and Dr. Elliott discuss the importance of pediatric dentistry guidelines now addressing airway screening and treatment more directly.
• Collaborative Pediatric Airway Care: The conversation emphasizes working with orthodontists, ENTs, lactation consultants, craniofacial chiropractors, and myofunctional therapists rather than trying to solve everything alone.

Featured Experts to Follow

• Dr. Johnny Ukich: A pediatric dentist sharing a practical perspective on how airway awareness changed the way he screens and treats children.
• Dr. Erin Elliott: Co-host of the episode and one of the early voices who helped push this conversation forward in her community.
• Dr. Boyd Simpkins: Mentioned in the episode as another pediatric dentist involved in this space.

Recommended Tools & Reading

• Gasp: The book Dr. Ukich credits as the moment everything clicked for him.
• Breath by James Nestor: A recommended read for clinicians who want a more accessible entry point into breathing and airway concepts.
• Pediatric Sleep Questionnaire (PSQ): A practical screening resource for identifying airway-related symptoms in children.
• Myobrace: Mentioned as a tool for encouraging better breathing habits and oral function.
• CO2 Laser: Discussed as a valuable tool for infant tongue-tie releases because of comfort, speed, and healing.

Why do the thousands of dollars you spend on dental consultants evaporate the moment your team gets busy? Dr. Max Kerr breaks down the real reason your practice falls back into bad habits, office drama, and useless meetings. Learn how the EOS framework forces total team accountability, kills breakroom gossip, and builds a structural foundation that permanently solves your biggest operational headaches.

What We Discuss with Dr. Max Kerr:

• The Issues List: Why an organization with a lot of issues is actually a healthy one—as long as you have a system to capture them instead of letting them fester in the breakroom.
• IDS (Identify, Discuss, Solve): The exact psychological framework to prevent endless meeting debates and force actual, tangible solutions with assigned to-dos.
• Stopping Office Drama: How to empower your team to bring problems to the light, and why you should enforce a strict "don't vent to me, do something about it" culture.
• The 80/20 Rule of Process: Why you don't need a 100-page SOP manual that no one reads. Learn how documenting just 20% of your core processes gets 80% of the work done safely.
• The Level 10 Meeting: The strict 90-minute weekly agenda that guarantees accountability, keeps everyone on track, and eliminates the "this could have been an email" feeling.
• The Foundation First: Why getting EOS off the ground takes a solid two years, and why expensive clinical consultants won't save your business if your foundational "underwear and socks" aren't properly in place.
• And much more…

Episode Summary:

You’ve hired the consultants, read the books, and maybe even had a few productive team meetings. But two months later, the demands of the practice get in the way, and everyone reverts to their old habits. Your team is venting to each other in the hallways, administrative balls are being dropped, and your clinical excellence is being overshadowed by 1-star reviews complaining about billing errors.

In this episode, Jason Tierney and Dr. Erin Elliott welcome back Dr. Kerr to dive deep into the final key components of the EOS (Traction) framework: Issues, Process, and Traction. Dr. Kerr explains why avoiding problems is a recipe for disaster and how implementing a strict, time-blocked "Level 10" weekly meeting can completely transform your practice's culture. He shares exactly how to track issues, force actionable solutions instead of allowing endless discussion, and hold team members accountable week over week.

Whether you are running a single dental sleep practice or managing multiple locations, this conversation strips away the "rainbow unicorn mumbo jumbo" and gives you the essential blocking and tackling strategies needed to run a highly profitable, stress-free business.

Resources and References Mentioned:

• Traction: Get a Grip on Your Business by Gino Wickman
  • Value Add: This is the foundational textbook for the Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS) discussed in this episode. If you are tired of hitting a ceiling in your practice growth, start here to understand the Six Key Components of a successful business.
• EOS Worldwide (Find an Implementer)
  • Dr. Kerr mentions that while you can self-implement EOS, the most successful and busiest dental sleep practices in the world often hire a professional implementer. Use this directory if you want a professional to hold your leadership team accountable and fast-track your success.
• Productive Dentist Academy (PDA)
  • Mentioned by Dr. Kerr as an incredible resource for patient interaction and team alignment. However, as Dr. Kerr notes, PDA is "downstream" from EOS. Build your EOS communication lanes and business foundation first, so that when you bring in heavy-hitting consultants like PDA, your team can actually execute their strategies.
• Connect with Dr. Max Kerr:
  • Reach out directly via email at: [email protected]

The "business of dental sleep medicine" shouldn’t feel like a dirty secret - and PROFIT shouldn’t be a curse word in sleep. In this episode, Jason Tierney, Dr. Erin Elliott, and Dr. Max Kerr stop apologizing for building healthy businesses. Dr. Kerr explains how his own "rheostat regret"—a deep-seated dislike for traditional drilling and filling—led him to master the Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS) and scale a massive sleep practice.

From identifying the "Toxic Tammys" in your office to setting the 90-day "Rocks" that move the needle, this conversation is a roadmap for any dentist who wants to stop being the bottleneck in their own business.

What’s on the Menu:

• The Handpiece Allergy: Why Max traded the handpiece for systems and how that shift allowed him to scale patient care without burning out.
• The Foundational “Underwear” of Business: Max explains why EOS is the "base layer" of a successful practice—if your socks and underwear have holes, your whole outfit (and your day) is ruined.
• The "Screw Tammy" Protocol: How to handle the high-performing "Toxic Tammy" who is a hit with patients but a cancer to your team culture.
• Vision vs. Hallucination: Why a mission statement isn’t enough. You need the Vision Traction Organizer (VTO) to ensure your team is actually following the map.
• Setting DSM "Rocks": A breakdown of the 90-day sprint and how to keep your team focused on big-picture projects instead of just daily fires.
• Voted Off the Island: Erin and Max discuss building a culture so strong that toxic employees self-select out before you even have to fire them.
• Managing by the Scorecard: How to use objective data to predict your month's success before you even look at a revenue report.

The Value Add:

• It Connects Business Health to Patient Care: This episode makes it clear that strong care and strong operations belong together. A healthy practice can serve more people, more consistently.
• It Gives Owners a Clearer Leadership Framework: Instead of living in constant reaction mode, listeners get a practical model for building alignment, accountability, and better decision-making.
• Cross-Functional Buy-In: Dr. Kerr emphasizes involving key team members in vision and accountability so the practice runs with more alignment and less confusion.

The Wisdom of Max:
"None of us are doing this for free. If you don’t care about people, dentistry will eat you alive—but you can quantify that you’re helping someone live years longer. What is that worth to bring to market?"

Clinical Concepts & Terminology:

• EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System): A proven set of simple concepts and practical tools used by entrepreneurs to get what they want from their businesses.
• Rocks: The 3 to 7 most important things (objectives) the company must get done in the next 90 days.
• The People Analyzer: An EOS tool used to clarify if you have the "Right People" in the "Right Seats."
• VTO (Vision Traction Organizer): A powerful tool that helps a leadership team get 100% on the same page with where they are going and how they are going to get there.
• Scorecard: A weekly tracking tool of 5–15 high-level numbers that allow you to feel the pulse of your business.

Featured Experts & Resources:

• Dr. Max Kerr: Clinical Director of Sleep Better Austin and a certified EOS implementer.
• Traction by Gino Wickman: The essential reading for any practice owner looking to implement EOS.
• Sleep Better Austin: The systems-driven sleep practice referenced as a case study in this episode.

Dental Sleep Medicine is like Groundhog Day. Why?

In this episode, Jason Tierney and Dr. Erin Elliott sit down with the "fierce advocate" himself, Dr. Steve Carstensen, to examine why the field is moving at the speed of a dial-up modem.

Steve has been in the room where it happens—serving on boards, teaching the masses, and pushing the rock up the hill—and he’s got some thoughts. If you’ve ever felt like a "second-class citizen" in the medical world or wondered why we’re still arguing over home sleep tests in 2026, this one is for you.

What’s on the Menu:

• The "Orange Jumpsuit" Syndrome: Why the fear of regulatory "monsters" has kept dentists from practicing to their full potential. (Spoiler: You probably won’t go to prison for ordering a ferritin test).

• The MD-DDS Discord: Why does the sleep physician love your outcomes but forget your name when it’s time to refer? We talk about bridging the "silo" gap without needing a medical degree.

• Beyond the "Plastic Provider": If you think your only job is "mandibular advancement," you’re missing the 4th dimension. Steve breaks down Developmental Dental Facial Orthopedics and why we need to care about the brain and heart, not just the airway closure.

• The Tipping Point: Is the AI-informed patient actually the one who will finally force the medical and dental communities to play nice?

The Value Add:

Stop playing small. Steve makes the case for moving from "cautious participation" to "meaningful leadership." You'll walk away with a clearer understanding of the structural barriers holding the industry back—and how to kick them down in your own community.

"All of us is smarter than any one of us." — Dr. Carstensen’s closing wisdom 

Clinical Concepts & Terminology

• Developmental Dental Facial Orthopedics: A term coined by Dr. Kevin Boyd and Dr. Dave McCarty to shift the focus from just "straightening teeth" to the 4D growth and development of the airway.
  Learn more via Dr. Kevin Boyd’s work

• The "Leaky Syndrome" Concept: Referenced in the context of functional dentistry—looking at the tube from "here to here" (mouth to gut).
  Dr. Witt Wilkerson’s "The Shift": A guide to health-centered dentistry and the "leaky" body systems.

Professional Organizations & Collaboration

Steve emphasizes joining groups where "nobody cares what’s on your badge."

• World Dentofacial Sleep Society (WDSS): Founded by Dr. Audrey Yoon and Dr. Leopoldo Correa to unite dentists and surgeons globally.
  Website: dentofacialsleep.org

• World Sleep Society: The premier international organization for sleep professionals. Steve recommends their biennial congress for true interdisciplinary learning.
  Website: worldsleepsociety.org

• AAPMD & AAOSH (Collaboration Cures): The home for the "Collaboration Cures" movement, focusing on the airway, oral-systemic health, and functional medicine.
  Website: aapmd.org | aaosh.org

• Sleep Education Consortium: Founded by Dr. Jerald Simmons, providing the 3-day comprehensive courses Steve mentioned for MD/DDS collaboration.
  Website: dentalsleepconference.com

Featured Experts to Follow

• Dr. Shane Creado: The sleep physician mentioned who "loves our world" and focuses on peak sleep performance and psychiatry.
  Website: shanecreado.com

• Dr. Audrey Yoon: A leader in pediatric dental sleep medicine and orthodontics at Stanford.
  Link to Clinical Profile

Recommended Tools & Reading

• Open Evidence: The AI tool Steve used to research "Evidence-Based Medicine" and alternative clinical trials.
  Website: open.evidence.com

• The Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell: The book Steve cited when discussing how the industry will eventually shift its attitude toward airway care. Buy on Amazon.

You did your job. You addressed the patient’s breathing and airway issues. But they are still spending their days feeling like they haven’t slept. What’s the deal?

This week, sleep expert and psychiatrist Dr. Shane Creado joins Jason Tierney and Dr. Erin Elliott to solve the mystery of the "tired-but-treated" patient. We are diving into the "busy brain," the trap of sleep trackers, and why your bedroom might be training you to stay awake.

Whether you are a doctor helping patients or just someone tired of being tired, this episode is a wake-up call. It is time to stop focusing on how long you stay in bed and start focusing on how well you actually sleep.

What We Discuss in This Episode

• Pills vs. Skills: Why retraining your brain with CBT-I is better than using sleeping pills like Ambien or Xanax.
• The Airway Isn’t Everything: Why opening the "pipe" does not always turn off the "alert" button in the brain.
• Bedtime Math: Why spending too much time in bed can actually make insomnia worse.
• The Busy Brain Problem: How to stop your brain from treating 2:00 AM like a stressful business meeting.
• The Tracker Trap: Is your Oura Ring or Apple Watch giving you "Orthosomnia"? This is when you are so stressed about your sleep data that you cannot actually sleep.
• Sleep Like a Pro: How small changes can turn an average person into an elite athlete.
• Social Jet Lag: Why sleeping in late on Saturday feels like a five-hour flight delay for your brain.
• The Golf Secret: How to talk to patients about sleep so they actually listen. (Hint: Talk about their golf score, not their blood pressure.)

The Big Idea

Most people think sleep is just something that happens when you aren't awake. Dr. Creado explains that sleep is actually a skill. If your brain has "learned" how to stay awake and anxious, a CPAP machine or a dental appliance cannot fix that on its own.

This episode is about moving past the hardware (the airway) and fixing the software (the habits and the mind).

Resources and Links Mentioned

Dr. Creado’s Tools

• The Book: Peak Sleep Performance by Dr. Shane Creado
• The Course: Overcoming Insomnia Program (Search "Amen University")
• Dr. Creado’s Patient Resource Guide: Download Here
  
  

Research and Studies

• The Stanford Sleep Extension Study: Research showing that getting just 30 minutes more sleep can improve athletic accuracy by up to 40%. Link: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3119836/
• The MLB Sleep Study: Data showing that 72% of "sleepy" Major League Baseball players are out of the league within two years. Link: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130531105506.htm
• The Sauna Study: Research indicating that regular sauna use can improve sleep quality in 83% of users. Link: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31126560/
  
  

Key Concepts for Further Reading

• CBT-I (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for Insomnia): Find a specialist via the Society of Behavioral Sleep Medicine.
• Paradoxical Intent: The psychological trick of "trying to stay awake" to lower sleep anxiety, famously used by psychiatrist Viktor Frankl.
• Orthosomnia: A term for the unhealthy obsession with achieving "perfect" sleep data from wearable devices.

What if your referral sources keep sending patients, but your delivery numbers never match up? 

Scott Craig joins hosts Jason Tierney and Dr. Erin Elliott to break down a glaring reason many sleep practices stall: they track activity, not conversion. This isn't about "doing more marketing"—it’s about plugging the leaks in your pipeline. Scott shares how he transitioned from a general dental setting to a 5-location sleep powerhouse by swapping "gut feelings" for cold, hard data and a dedicated team that lives and breathes sleep.

What We Discuss:

• The Clean Break: Why moving sleep out of the general practice and into a standalone environment kills friction and creates instant momentum.
• The 3 Conversions That Matter: How tracking Referral-to-Consult, Consult-to-Delivery, and Delivery-to-Efficacy reveals exactly where you’re losing patients (and revenue).
• Stop Managing by "Vibes": How to read the story the numbers are telling—from the referral source tanking your close rate to the insurance type quietly killing your margins.
• The Intake Engine: Why your front desk is either your biggest growth driver or your most expensive bottleneck.
• Metrics as a Team Sport: Using transparency and EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System) to turn data into a tool for trust rather than a weapon for blame.
• Winning the Skeptics: A masterclass in handling the "it won’t work for severe patients" physician with calm, specific proof.

The Story

The episode kicks off with Scott’s personal "why"—a story that starts with his father identifying Scott’s own OSA after a sleep course. Treating his own apnea took Scott’s world from black and white to full color, sparking a 20-year mission to make oral appliance therapy a first-line reality.

But mission alone doesn't pay the rent. Scott walks us through the "ruthless" business framework required to scale. When a primary referral source passed away, his team didn't panic; they rebuilt. By treating the patient pathway like a high-performance pipeline and implementing a leadership structure that demands accountability, they turned a "side hustle" into a Chicago-area behemoth. This is an episode for clinicians tired of "hope" as a strategy and ready for a measurable, scalable system.

Resources and References

• EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System): The framework for leadership used to scale the practice.
• Transform Dental Sleep: Specifically, Scott’s chapter on metrics and practice management.

What if that "cute" childhood snore is actually the sound of your child gasping for air, struggling to stay alive?

In this high-energy, eye-opening episode, Dr. Stacy Becker—one-third of the powerhouse team behind ASAP Pathway—joins us to dismantle the myth that kids "just grow out of it." After witnessing her own father struggle with CPAP intolerance and watching her own children show the classic "red flags" despite doing everything "by the book," Stacy realized that dentistry isn't just about teeth—it’s about the very air we breathe. This isn't a lecture on complex orthodontics; it’s a playbook for becoming the "triage hero" your smallest patients desperately need.

Jason Tierney and Dr. Erin Elliott sit down with Stacy to move the conversation from "niche mystery" to "everyday essential." They explore why a generation raised on applesauce pouches is facing a "melting face" epidemic and how you can start saving lives before a child even hits the first grade.

The Meat of the Episode

• The Death of the Crunch: We dive into the "Industrial Revolution" of the jaw. Learn how soft diets and "pouch culture" are causing muscles to atrophy and faces to literally melt, leaving no room for adult teeth (or oxygen).
• The 95% Rule: Why Dr. Steven Sheldon says nearly all ADHD is actually sleep deprivation in disguise. We discuss the heartbreaking reality of "broken brains" and why waiting until age 13 to fix an airway is often seven years too late.
• "We Now Know": The magic script for talking to long-term parents. Stacy shares how to pivot from "just checking for cavities" to "checking for life-altering airway issues" without the guilt trip of what you might have missed in the past.
• Kissing Frogs & Finding Princes: Referral reality checks. Not all ENTs or Orthodontists are created equal. Stacy explains how to hunt for the "airway-aware" specialists in your town by asking the right questions and trusting your gut.
• Clinical Clues Hiding in Plain Sight: From chapped lips and "crusty noses" to tartar buildup on a six-year-old. Learn to spot the secret signals of mouth breathing that are sitting right in your hygiene chair.
• Permission to be a Dentist: Why you don’t need a "mother may I" from a physician to expand a maxilla. We talk about the courage to lead your community and the dental levers that can actually shrink tonsils and adenoids.

A Note from Dr. Stacy Becker

"A worried mom does better research than the FBI. If you see the craniofacial deficits and a child is struggling, you cannot stick your head in the sand. By age six or seven, the brain is mostly done. You can grow out of large tonsils by thirteen, but you might be growing into a lifetime of cognitive deficits and ADHD. We have to act now."

Why This Episode Matters

This conversation is for every "Jill or Joe Dentist" who is doing "just fine" but wants to do better. Stacy reminds us that we are the front-line scouts in a pandemic of poor sleep. You don’t have to become a full-time pediatric surgeon to make a difference; you just have to stop "unseeing" the red flags. By the end of this episode, you won't just be looking at a child's bite—you'll be looking at their entire future, and you'll have the "Thunderstruck" energy to help them protect it.

Would you like me to create a "Checklist for the Chair" based on the clinical signs Stacy mentioned to help your hygiene team start screening tomorrow?

Resources and References Mentioned

Here are the links and references for the resources mentioned in the podcast:

Community & Directories

• ASAP Pathway (Airway, Sleep, and Pediatric Pathway): * asappathway.com
  • Find a Provider Map: asappathway.com/map/
• AAPMD (American Academy of Physiological Medicine & Dentistry):
  • Main Site: aapmd.org
  • Find a Professional Directory: aapmd.org/find-aapmd-professional
    
    

Clinical Research & Articles

• The Atlantic Article: * Title referenced: "Are we cranking kids' jaws open for no reason?" (Published January 2026).
  • Context: Discusses the controversy between "airway-focused" orthodontics and traditional evidence-based dentistry.
• American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) Snoring Policy:
  • Clinical Practice Guideline: Diagnosis and Management of Childhood Obstructive Sleep Apnea Syndrome
  • Key Takeaway: The AAP recommends screening for snoring at every well-child visit (the "zero tolerance" approach mentioned by Dr. Becker).
• Dr. Audrey Yoon (Stanford University):
  • Stanford Profile: profiles.stanford.edu/audrey-yoon
  • Research Focus: Her work bridges the gap between pediatric dentistry and orthodontics, focusing on how expansion affects pediatric airway volume and sleep outcomes.
• The CHAT Study (Childhood Adenotonsillectomy Trial):
  • Study Overview: ClinicalTrials.gov - NCT00560859
  • Context: This is the landmark study that evaluated "watchful waiting" vs. surgery for mild-to-moderate pediatric OSA, which Dr. Ron Mitchell helped lead.

Expert Viewpoints

• Dr. Stephen Sheldon (Lurie Children’s Hospital):
  • ADHD & Sleep Link: Dr. Sheldon is a pioneer who famously posits that a vast majority of ADHD cases are actually misdiagnosed sleep-disordered breathing. You can find his lectures on the AAPMD YouTube channel.
• Dr. Ron Mitchell (UT Southwestern/Children's Medical Center):
  • Expert on the surgical management of pediatric sleep apnea. UTSW Profile.

What happens to a patient’s heart when they receive life-altering news alone, staring at a cold computer screen?

In this deeply moving episode, Lesia Tierney—a 20-year leader in dental sleep medicine—shares the moment her world shifted. After decades of helping convert patients, she found herself on the other side of the consult desk, navigating a breast cancer diagnosis. This isn't just a talk about practice management; it’s a masterclass in human-to-human connection.

Jason Tierney and Dr. Erin Elliott join Lesia to peel back the layers and look at the raw vulnerability of the patient experience. They explore how a simple hand-hold, a well-timed joke, or a quiet waiting room isn't just "good business"—it’s an act of love that restores a patient's dignity.

The Heart of the Matter

• The Loneliness of the Portal: Lesia reflects on the "purgatory" of finding out she had cancer via a portal refresh. We discuss why no patient should ever feel alone in their diagnosis, and how to ensure your office is the guide they desperately need.
• The 10-Second Intervention: A story of a nurse, an operating table, and a hand-hold. Learn how ten seconds of authentic presence can pull a patient back from the brink of terror and give them the peace to proceed.
• Humor as a Shield: Why Dr. Liu’s "basic bitch cancer" comment was the most professional thing she could have said. We dive into how laughter lowers the walls of fear and allows a patient to finally exhale.
• The Waiting Room as a Sanctuary: Your front office is the patient's first "safe space." If it’s loud, messy, or sterile, their nervous system shuts down. Learn how to curate a calm soundscape that whispers, "You are safe here."
• The Gift of "Personhood": Why the "Bring Your Person" rule is about more than just remembering facts—it’s about honoring the patient’s need for emotional support during a moment of high stakes.

A Note from Lesia Tierney

"Our job is to give them hope, give them solutions, and walk them through it. It’s such a blessing and a gift to be able to do that for other people. When you’re on the other side of it, the fact that someone actually cares... that is what stays with you."

Why This Episode Matters

This conversation is for every team member who has ever felt like they were just "running a process." Lesia reminds us that beneath every sleep study and oral appliance is a human being looking for a steady voice and a hand to hold. By the end of this episode, you won't just want to improve your conversion rate—you’ll want to improve the way you show up for people.

• (00:18) - Introduction

What happens when the life you’ve built no longer fits? Dr. Suzanne Thai, a prominent dental sleep medicine practitioner and TEDx speaker, joins Jason Tierney and Dr. Erin Elliott to discuss her journey from "existential dread" in general dentistry to finding renewed purpose in sleep medicine. This episode dives deep into the power of vulnerability, the necessity of mastering communication, and the specific "soft skills" that separate average practices from elite ones.

What We Discuss with Dr. Suzanne Thai:

• The TEDx Journey: The behind-the-scenes reality of preparing for a TEDx talk and why Dr. Thai chose to share her most vulnerable stories.
• From Dread to Joy: How moving from general dentistry to dental sleep medicine saved Dr. Thai’s career and brought back her "spark."
• The Power of Vulnerability: Why sharing "stories that hurt" fosters deeper connections with patients and peers.
• Communication as a Clinical Skill: Why taking a perfect bite registration isn't enough—and how to truly engage a patient in their own treatment.
• The "Chameleon" Technique: How to read a patient’s energy and adjust your own to build immediate trust.
• Mastering the Physician Referral: Why getting cell phone numbers and sending "sushi photos" is more effective than traditional professional outreach.
• Role-Play and Recording: The "cringe-worthy" but essential practice of recording your consults to eliminate filler words and improve conversion rates.

Episode Summary

For many clinicians, the daily grind of "millimeter-perfect" dentistry can lead to burnout. Dr. Suzanne Thai reached that breaking point after 15 years, but discovered that dental sleep medicine offered a different kind of fulfillment: the ability to save lives and marriages.

In this episode, Dr. Thai explains that while the clinical mechanics of making an oral appliance are relatively straightforward, the true challenge—and the key to a successful practice—lies in communication and emotional intelligence. She shares her framework for "staying on the line" during patient consults, the importance of genuine compliments, and why her team is required to role-play scenarios regularly.

Whether you’re looking for the courage to reinvent your career or simply want to improve your patient "yes" rate, Dr. Thai’s high-energy insights provide a roadmap for professional and personal transformation.

Resources and References Mentioned

Featured Presentation: Dr. Suzanne Thai’s TEDx Talk 

• (00:04) - Introduction