In this episode, Vassilis Douros and Marc Binkley unpack the messy reality of B2B buying, following a thought-provoking conversation with Jann Schwartz and Mimi Turner.

They explore how buying decisions are rarely rational or linear—shaped instead by shifting group dynamics, emotional “jobs to be done,” and the human need for trust and validation. Drawing from personal experiences with software purchasing, they highlight why buying groups don’t map neatly to org charts, why deals often stall due to misalignment rather than product fit, and how brand fame works differently for large versus niche players.

The discussion also dives into what this means for B2B marketers and creatives alike—from building awareness to navigating the unique challenges smaller brands face when competing with established giants.

Enjoy the show!

Our Guests:

Mimi Turner: Head of Marketplace Innovation, LinkedIn LMS

https://www.linkedin.com/in/mimi-turner/

Jann Martin Schwartz: Senior Director of Marketplace Innovation, LinkedIn

https://www.linkedin.com/in/janns/

Follow Our Updates⁠⁠

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/

https://www.sleepingbarber.ca

Get in touch with our hosts:

Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/

Vassilis Douros: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/

Takeaways

• B2B buying is a complex and relational process.
• Emotional components play a significant role in decision-making.
• Buyers often carry the blame for failed purchases.
• Buying groups should ideally be small and focused.
• The onboarding experience can impact perceptions of a product.
• Understanding emotional jobs to be done is crucial for marketers.
• Creative strategies must align with the emotional journey of buyers.
• Brand awareness is essential for niche products to compete.
• The buying process involves multiple stakeholders and perspectives.
• Marketers need to navigate political capital within organizations.

Chapters:

00:00 - Navigating the Complexities of B2B Buying

02:38 - The Emotional Weight of Decision Making

05:19 - The Role of Buying Groups in B2B

07:55 - Understanding Emotional Jobs to Be Done

10:30 - Creative Implications in B2B Marketing

13:00 - The Importance of Brand Awareness in Buying Decisions

15:23 - Integrating Products in a Buying Ecosystem

In this episode of the Sleeping Barber podcast, hosts Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros engage with Mimi Turner & Jann Martin Schwartz who leads the marketplace innovation team at LinkedIn.

The conversation delves into the complexities of B2B buying, emphasizing the relational and emotional aspects that influence purchasing decisions. Key themes include the importance of trust, the evolving dynamics of buyer groups, and the impact of generational shifts and AI on decision-making. The discussion also highlights the significance of physical events in fostering relationships and validating brands in the B2B space.

Our Guests:

Mimi Turner: Head of Marketplace Innovation, LinkedIn LMS

https://www.linkedin.com/in/mimi-turner/

Jann Martin Schwartz: Senior Director of Marketplace Innovation, LinkedIn

https://www.linkedin.com/in/janns/

Follow Our Updates⁠⁠

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/

https://www.sleepingbarber.ca

Get in touch with our hosts:

Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/

Vassilis Douros: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/

Takeaways

• B2B buying is primarily relational, not just rational.
• Emotional jobs play a crucial role in B2B purchasing decisions.
• Trust and recommendations are vital for buyers.
• The number of stakeholders in buying groups is increasing.
• Generational changes are influencing B2B buying behaviour.
• AI is reshaping how buyers make decisions.
• Physical events provide essential human validation.
• Being well-known in a category is critical for success.
• Buyers prioritize defensible choices in their decisions.
• Understanding emotional jobs can enhance marketing strategies.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to B2B Buying Dynamics

06:06 Understanding Emotional Jobs in B2B

12:04 The Role of Trust and Relationships

17:58 Navigating Brand Recognition in B2B

23:55 The Evolution of Buyer Groups and Decision-Making

24:55 The Importance of Human Validation in B2B Decisions

26:22 Trust and Influence in B2B Marketing

27:41 The Role of Events in Building Trust

29:37 Nonlinear Thinking in B2B Marketing

31:56 Creating Value Through Intangible Investments

34:37 Navigating Risk in B2B Purchases

38:41 Emotional Jobs to Be Done in B2B Buying Decisions

In this episode, Marc and Vassilis discuss various thing that caught their eye over the last couple weeks including the cultural impact of Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey, OpenAI's new e-commerce strategy, Google's advancements in AI for ad traffic management, and the rise of Substack among Gen Z brands. They also delve into the importance of restructuring Google Ads for better performance and highlight TD Bank's innovative campaign that promotes fractional ownership.

Enjoy the show!

Follow Our Updates⁠⁠

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/

https://www.sleepingbarber.ca

Get in touch with our hosts:

Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/

Vassilis Douros: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/

Episode Takeaways:

• Speed and agility in marketing can lead to success.
• OpenAI is diversifying into e-commerce with chat GPT.
• Google is using AI to combat invalid ad traffic.
• Substack is gaining traction among Gen Z brands.
• Restructuring Google Ads should be done thoughtfully.
• TD Bank's campaign creatively promotes fractional ownership.
• Cultural relevance is key in modern marketing strategies.
• AI tools are essential for optimizing ad performance.
• Brands must adapt to changing consumer behaviors.
• Email marketing is evolving, not dying.

Timestamps:

00:00 - Welcome and Introduction

00:57 - Cultural Marketing Moments: Taylor Swift and Reese's

04:13 - OpenAI's E-commerce Strategy

07:44 - Google's AI in Ad Traffic Management

11:25 - Substack: The New Platform for Gen Z Brands

15:05 - Marketing Moment: Restructuring Google Ad Accounts

21:22 - Ad of the Week: TD Bank's Fractional Ownership Campaign

Join hosts Vassilis and Marc as they dive into the transformative power of AI in market research. They welcome Steve Phillips, Chief Innovation officer from Zappi to discuss creative effectiveness and consumer-centric approaches and how platforms like Zappi are reshaping the industry by enhancing data analysis, accelerating decision-making, and balancing creativity with data-driven insights.

Enjoy the show!

Our Guest:

Steve Phillips, Founder, Chair and Chief Innovation Officer at Zappi

https://www.linkedin.com/in/steve-phillips-2121ab/

Follow Our Updates⁠⁠

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/

https://www.sleepingbarber.ca

Get in touch with our hosts:

Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/

Vassilis Douros: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/

Timestamps:

00:00 - Introduction and Episode Overview

02:15 - AI's Impact on Market Research

05:30 - Discussion on Synthetic Data

10:00 - Agility in Marketing through Rapid Testing

15:45 - Balancing Creativity and Data in Advertising

In this episode of the Sleeping Baber podcast, Steve Phillips, founder and Chief Innovation Officer at Zappi, discusses the evolution of consumer insights, the role of AI in market research, and the importance of creative effectiveness. He shares his journey from CEO to CIO, emphasizing the need for agility in marketing and the democratization of consumer insights. The conversation also touches on the future of data as a service and how Zappi is helping brands improve their effectiveness through a deeper understanding of consumer emotions.

Our Guest:

Steve Phillips, Founder, Chair and Chief Innovation Officer at Zappi

https://www.linkedin.com/in/steve-phillips-2121ab/

Follow Our Updates⁠⁠

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/

https://www.sleepingbarber.ca

Get in touch with our hosts:

Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/

Vassilis Douros: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/

Takeaways

• Zappi aims to automate consumer insights for faster and cheaper results.
• AI has significantly improved the quality of market research reports.
• The emotional impact of advertising is crucial for creative effectiveness.
• Zappi's platform allows for rapid testing and iteration of marketing ideas.
• Democratizing consumer insights enables all team members to access data easily.
• Creative effectiveness is about more than just click-through rates.
• Zappi's clients have reported a 30% increase in effectiveness using their system.
• The future of marketing involves a continuous feedback loop with consumers.
• Data as a service is the next evolution for Zappi, enhancing brand strategy.

Chapters

• 00:00 - Introduction to Zappi and Steve Phillips
• 03:00 - The Evolution of Consumer Insights
• 05:58 - Leveraging AI in Market Research
• 09:07 - Creative Effectiveness and Its Importance
• 12:14 - The Shift from CEO to Chief Innovation Officer
• 14:53 - The Future of Data as a Service
• 18:00 - Conclusion and Key Takeaways

In this episode of Barbers Brief, Vassilis and Marc discuss the evolving landscape of entertainment and advertising, focusing on the YouTube-ification of platforms like Netflix, Google's new AI-driven advertising strategies, and the changing dynamics of TV consumption. They also delve into American Eagle's controversial marketing campaign and reflect on the need for a renewed approach to marketing strategies in a rapidly changing digital environment.

Enjoy the show!

Follow our updates here: ⁠⁠

https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/⁠⁠

https://www.sleepingbarber.ca

Get in touch with our hosts:

Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/

Vassilis Douros: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/⁠

Takeaways

• Netflix is leveraging YouTube creators for content development.
• AI mode ads will change how brands target consumers.
• Streaming now dominates TV consumption, with YouTube leading.
• American Eagle's campaign sparked significant cultural debate.
• Marketing strategies need to evolve with changing consumer behavior.
• The importance of understanding both old and new marketing playbooks.
• Brands must clarify their objectives to avoid data-driven pitfalls.
• Engagement metrics should focus on meaningful interactions, not just clicks.
• Controversial campaigns can generate buzz but may alienate consumers.
• The line between brands and entertainment companies is blurring.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Overview

00:44 YouTube's Influence on Streaming Platforms

05:09 Google's AI Mode Ads

06:50 Nielsen's Report on TV Viewing Trends

10:24 American Eagle's Controversial Campaign

15:30 Marketing Moment: The State of Marketing Today

23:08 Out of the Week: Jordan Brand's Musical Ad

In this conversation, Marc Binkley and Vassilis discuss insights from their chat with Bob Park, focusing on brand management, the importance of data in marketing, and the evolving landscape of AI. They explore how to manage multiple brands effectively, the distinction between good and bad data, and the significance of sales as a key metric. The discussion also touches on the shift towards micro-moments in marketing and the future implications of AI in the industry.

Enjoy the show!

Our Guest:

Bob Park: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bob-park-geappliances/

Follow our updates here: ⁠⁠

https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/⁠⁠

https://www.sleepingbarber.ca

Get in touch with our hosts:

Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/

Vassilis Douros: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/⁠

Takeaways

• The weather can influence our mood and conversations.
• Managing multiple brands requires a nuanced understanding of market dynamics.
• Good data is essential for effective marketing strategies.
• Sales metrics should be the primary focus for marketers.
• The marketing landscape is shifting towards smaller, more frequent campaigns.
• AI is rapidly evolving and will impact marketing roles significantly.
• Understanding consumer behaviour is crucial for brand success.
• Data should guide decision-making, but clarity on what is being measured is vital.
• Collaboration across departments is essential for achieving sales goals.
• The future of marketing will involve adapting to new technologies and consumer expectations.

Chapters

• 00:00 Sunny Beginnings and Weather Talk
• 01:55 Insights from Bob Park: Managing Multiple Brands
• 05:18 Data Distinctions: Good vs. Bad
• 09:09 Sales as the Key Metric
• 12:42 The Shift to Smaller Campaigns
• 16:10 The Future of AI and Technology
• 18:05 Reflections on the Conversation

In this episode of the Sleeping Baber podcast, we engage with Bob Park, formerly the Chief Brand Officer at GE Appliances. We explore the evolving role of brand management, the importance of data-driven decision-making, and the challenges of balancing short-term and long-term marketing strategies. Bob shares insights from the Cannes Changemaker series, emphasizing the need for consumer-centric approaches and the integration of AI in marketing. Our conversation highlights the significance of building relationships within the C-suite and adapting to new media strategies in a rapidly changing landscape.

Our Guest:

• Bob Park: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bob-park-geappliances/

Follow our updates here: ⁠⁠

• https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/⁠⁠
• https://www.sleepingbarber.ca

Get in touch with our hosts:

• Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/
• Vassilis Douros: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/⁠

Takeaways

• The Chief Brand Officer role focuses on a house of brands approach.
• Cannes Lions Festival provided valuable insights on marketing and technology.
• Being a changemaker is essential in brand management.
• Understanding consumer needs is key to effective marketing.
• Data-driven decision-making is crucial for success.
• There is a distinction between good and bad data.
• Key metrics should guide marketing strategies.
• Navigating data overload is a challenge for marketers.
• Media strategies must evolve with changing consumer behaviour.
• AI will play a significant role in the future of marketing.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Sleeping Baba Podcast

01:03 The Role of Chief Brand Officer

03:03 Insights from the Cannes Changemaker Series

05:49 Applying Change Maker Philosophy to Brand Management

08:56 Data-Driven Decision Making in Marketing

11:50 Key Performance Indicators and Market Share

14:51 Navigating Short-Term vs Long-Term Marketing Strategies

17:57 The Evolution of Media Strategies

21:10 Adapting to the Digital Landscape

24:07 Building Relationships with the C-Suite

26:48 Justifying Marketing Investments

30:03 The Future of Marketing and AI

33:03 Conclusion and Closing Remarks

In this episode, hosts Vassilis Douros and Marc Binkley discuss things that caught there eye over the last couple of weeks including the evolution of the creator economy, challenges in retail media measurement, the impact of AI on video advertising, and the transformation of performance marketing. They also analyze Ribena's nostalgic marketing campaign, highlighting the emotional connections brands can create with consumers.

Enjoy the episode!

Follow our updates here: ⁠⁠

• https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/⁠⁠
• https://www.sleepingbarber.ca

Get in touch with our hosts:

• Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/
• Vassilis Douros: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/⁠

Takeaways

• The creator economy is seeing significant mergers and acquisitions, indicating a shift towards formalization.
• Retail media networks are becoming increasingly fragmented, complicating measurement for advertisers.
• AI is revolutionizing video advertising, allowing smaller brands to compete with larger companies.
• Performance marketing needs to evolve from efficiency metrics to focus on consumer experience and connection.
• Brands should prioritize creating meaningful experiences over just measurable outcomes.
• The importance of breaking down silos between marketing teams to create cohesive consumer experiences.
• Measurement should go beyond last-click metrics to include engagement and journey quality.
• Ribena's campaign effectively taps into nostalgia, demonstrating the power of emotional connections in advertising.
• The rise of AI tools is making video production more accessible for smaller brands.
• Marketers need to rethink their strategies to adapt to changing consumer expectations and technological advancements.

Chapters

• 00:00 - Introduction
• 00:53 - The Evolving Creator Economy
• 04:29 - Retail Media Measurement Challenges
• 08:27 - AI's Impact on Video Advertising
• 12:19 - Innovative Marketing Strategies in Film
• 15:55 - The Intersection of Film and Marketing
• 17:12 - Evolving Performance Marketing to Experience Marketing
• 21:51 - Redefining Success in Marketing
• 25:24 - Nostalgia in Advertising: The Ribena Campaign

Links:

Creator Economy Mergers and Acquisitions Heating Up!

Link: https://www.businessinsider.com/creator-economy-mergers-acquisitions-heating-up-startups-private-equity-media-2025-7

Brands demand better retail media measurement; retailers say it's not that easy; brands spend more anyway – latest IAB data

Link: https://www.mi-3.com.au/16-07-2025/retail-media-partners-pile-brands-boost-investment-iab-report-pins-measurement-major

GenAI Is Coming for Your Commercials

Link: https://www.tvtechnology.com/news/nearly-90-percent-of-advertisers-will-use-gen-ai-to-build-video-ads-according-to-iab

Brad Pitt’s F1 Movie Marketing: Full-Throttle Strategy Breakdown

Link: https://www.brandvm.com/post/f1-movie-2025-marketing-strategy-brad-pitt

The Marketing Moment

Performance Marketing to Experience Engineering

Link: https://thecma.ca/topic/articles/2025/06/10/from-performance-marketing-to-experience-marketing--engineering-meaningful-consumer-connections

In this post-pod, Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros reflect on their conversation with David and their collective experiences at Cannes. They discuss the evolving landscape of marketing, the tension between data-driven strategies and the fast-paced media environment, and the importance of long-term campaigns. They explore the role of AI in marketing and the significance of creative strategies, while also highlighting the evolution of the Cannes festival into a global marketing ecosystem.

We hope you enjoy this show!

Follow our updates here: ⁠⁠

https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/⁠⁠

https://www.sleepingbarber.ca

Get in touch with our hosts:

Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/

Vassilis Douros: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/⁠

Chapters

00:00 - Post-Cannes Reflections

01:38 - The Tension Between Data and Media

04:52 - Long-Term Campaign Strategies

09:12 - Redefining Campaigns

10:33 - The Hum and the Beats of Marketing

12:21 - The Power of AI in Marketing

14:55 - The Evolution of Cannes Festival