LinkedIn doesn’t have to feel like one giant sales pitch and you actually don’t need to be a jerk to have it work for you.

In this mini episode of So Much To Say: A Legal Podcast For People, Megan Senese shares about a particularly bad LinkedIn interaction and how it has become something of a case study in what not to do. It’s also a reminder that the easiest way to stand out online might simply be to act like a human.

Megan shares how LinkedIn became one of stage’s strongest sources of clients, leads, and referrals by focusing on generosity, curiosity, personality, and genuine relationships instead of immediately asking for business.

If you walk away with anything from this episode, let it be to lead with kindness and to stop the pitch slapping.

Who this episode is for:

• Lawyers who want to use LinkedIn but don’t know what to post or say
• Professionals worried that reaching out will feel too salesy
• Anyone who has ever been on the receiving end of a LinkedIn “pitch slap”
• Lawyers and legal marketers looking to turn LinkedIn into a relationship-building and business development tool

Episode takeaways:

• LinkedIn can become a meaningful business development pipeline without aggressive selling.
• Your content should provide value while also showing people what it’s actually like to know and work with you.
• Engagement gives you an opportunity to identify people who are already interested in what you have to say.
• A thoughtful conversation is more valuable than rushing into a pitch.
• The stronger the relationship, the easier it becomes to understand what someone actually needs, and whether you’re right person to help or not.

How to use LinkedIn without pitch slapping people:

• Share something useful: Give people ideas, advice, or perspective they can actually use.
• Show some personality: Let people see what it might be like to know and work with you instead of making every post perfectly polished.
• Pay attention to who engages: Notice the people who consistently like, comment on, or interact with what you share.
• Start with gratitude and curiosity: Thank someone for engaging, start a conversation, and get to know them before asking for anything.
• Look for ways to help before you pitch: Send the article, make the introduction, recommend the book, or simply listen to what they need.
• Respect the silence: Follow-up is okay. Repeatedly demanding someone's attention is not. No one owes you a response.

Stay Connected:

You don’t have to choose between staying invisible and becoming the person everyone avoids in their LinkedIn inbox.

Lead with curiosity. Lead with kindness. Give without assuming you’ll get something in return.

At stage, we believe LinkedIn is one piece of a larger relationship-first business development strategy. We help lawyers figure out how to show up, share what they know, build meaningful relationships, and create opportunities without turning every interaction into a sales pitch.

• Learn more about stage
• Connect with Megan Senese 
• Connect with Jennifer Ramsey

Love So Much To Say? Let us know! Drop a review, give us 5 stars in your favorite podcast app, and tell us what made you laugh, think, or just go “yep, that’s me.” Every review helps us reach more awesome humans who want to make legal…well, human. 

“I created a community, not because I'm the expert, or because I figured it out, but because I think there needs to be a space for us to share about what's working and what's not working.”    -  Matthew Korn

What happens when the community you need doesn’t exist yet?

Sometimes, you build it yourself.

In this episode of So Much To Say: A Legal Podcast For People, Megan Senese and Jennifer Ramsey chat with Matthew Korn, employment attorney, partner at Pierson Ferdinand, and founder of Dad, Esq., about creating space for lawyer dads, making a major career change after 15 years, and figuring out how to build a career and life that actually work together.

Matthew started Dad, Esq. because he kept hearing the same question: How do you balance being a lawyer and a dad? His answer wasn’t to position himself as the person who had figured it all out, but rather, a father of four with a demanding legal career of his own. He wanted a place where dads could admit that they hadn’t figured it all out, together.

What began as an idea just weeks before its launch has grown into a private community of hundreds of lawyer dads across the U.S. and around the world. They talk about everything from parental leave and trial schedules to sleepless nights, marriage, potty training, career pressure, and the everyday wins that deserve celebrating.

And that shared experience matters. There are things about being a lawyer that other dads may not understand, just as there are parts of fatherhood that don’t always feel easy to bring into the workplace. Dad, Esq. gives men a place for both.

Matthew also gets candid about his own learning along the way, including realizing that building a community for involved dads was sometimes taking him away from being the involved dad he wanted to be. His solution? Delegate, ask for help, and remember that bigger isn’t always better.

Because whether you're building a law practice, a community, or a family life you love, sometimes the goal isn't to keep making everything bigger. It's to recognize what's already working and build intentionally from there.

You’ll hear about:

• Why Matthew left a firm after 15 years and what he was looking for in his next chapter
• How greater autonomy is changing the way he thinks about work and family
• Why he created Dad, Esq. without considering himself an expert on fatherhood
• The unique pressures that come with being both a lawyer and a dad
• Why talking about fatherhood at work can feel risky for men
• Creating a private space where lawyer dads can talk honestly about work, parenting, marriage, and life
• How Dad, Esq. grew from an idea conceived just weeks before launch into an international community
• Why shared lived experience can make people feel less alone
• The conversations lawyer dads are having about parental leave, caregiving, career pressure, and simply being tired
• How local Dad, Esq. chapters are bringing an online community into real life
• Why delegation became essential as Matthew balanced his family, law practice, and growing community
• Matthew’s reminder to himself that everything doesn't always need to become bigger and better

About Matthew Korn:

Matthew Korn is a company-side employment attorney, partner at Pierson Ferdinand, and founder of Dad, Esq., a free online community for lawyer dads. His employment practice spans both proactive counseling and litigation, helping employers navigate everything from reductions-in-force, wage and hour issues, and workplace policies to discrimination, retaliation, and class and collective actions.

As a father of four, Matthew also knows firsthand the tension that can exist between being an ambitious lawyer and a present parent. He created Dad, Esq. in January 2025 to give lawyer dads a private space to connect, share what’s working and what isn’t, and support one another through the realities of law and fatherhood.

Learn More:

• Connect with Matthew Korn
• Check out Dad, Esq. 
• Submit your Request to Join Dad, Esq. today at DadEsq.mn.co

Related episodes:

• What NextGen Lawyers Need From the Legal Profession: A Conversation (with Georgetown Law Professor, Jonah Perlin)
• Even My Kids Know: Business Development is About Trust (Minis with Megan)
• Leadership Can Come From Anywhere (with Baker McKenzie CFO, William Washington III)

This episode is brought to you by: ICVM Hawk

ICVM Hawk is a digital marketing and AI solutions consultancy that helps law firms build stronger brands and future-ready marketing systems.

They specialize in data-backed brand strategy, web design and development, SEO- and AI-optimized content and AI-enabled marketing system designed to improve visibility, credibility, and long-term growth. ICVM Hawk's solutions help law firms and legal marketing teams scale without losing the trust that matters most.

Visit icvmhawk.com to learn how your firm can benefit.

Stay Connected:

Love So Much To Say? Let us know! Drop a review, give us 5 stars in your favorite podcast app, and tell us what made you laugh, think, or just go “yep, that’s me.” Every review helps us reach more awesome humans who want to make legal…well, human. 
Want to go deeper? Curious about 1:1 coaching with Megan or Jen? Or want the inside scoop on stage? Hit us up below, we’d love to chat!

• Learn more about stage
• Connect with Megan Senese 
• Connect with Jennifer Ramsey

Getting clients can be hard, but it’s a lot easier when people trust you.

In this mini episode of So Much To Say: A Legal Podcast For People, Megan Senese pulls from inspiration that has come from a seemingly unlikely (but very cute) source: her kids.

Their observation sparks a conversation about why trust, reliability, and small acts of thoughtfulness matter more than the perfect pitch or another accolade. From following up when you say you will to helping someone even when there’s nothing in it for you, Megan explores how small moments add up to strong relationships, and why that is really good business development.

Who this episode is for:

• Lawyers who want to build stronger, longer-lasting client relationships
• Professionals who struggle with business development feeling transactional
• Anyone focused on attracting new clients while overlooking the relationships they already have
• Firm leaders looking to create a more relationship-focused approach to business development for themselves and their firm

Episode takeaways:

• Trust can matter more than credentials, awards, or a perfectly polished pitch.
• Reliability is one of the simplest ways to build trust with clients and prospects.
• Small acts of thoughtfulness are business development, even when they don’t feel like it.
• Helping when you have nothing to gain demonstrates that a relationship isn’t merely transactional.
• Strong relationships make outreach, referrals, pitching, and staying connected easier.

How to make trust part of your business development strategy:

• Do what you say you’ll do: Follow through when you promise to call, email, introduce someone, or provide an answer (especially when you offer a timeline).

• Show up: Consistency helps people know they can count on you when they need something.

• Pay attention to the small things: Remember the book they mentioned, make the introduction, or send the recommendation that made you think of them.

• Help when there’s nothing in it for you: Refer work when you’re not the right fit, answer the question, or check in simply because you care.

• Take time to reflect: Think about your strongest client relationships and identify the small moments that built trust before there was ever work to discuss.

Stay Connected:

At stage, we believe business development is relationship development. We help lawyers move beyond transactional outreach and build the kinds of authentic, trusted relationships that make business development more natural and sustainable.

If you or your firm are interested, you can reach us at [email protected].

• Learn more about stage
• Connect with Megan Senese 
• Connect with Jennifer Ramsey

Love So Much To Say? Let us know! Drop a review, give us 5 stars in your favorite podcast app, and tell us what made you laugh, think, or just go “yep, that’s me.” Every review helps us reach more awesome humans who want to make legal…well, human. 

“I think it’s starting that conversation that there's not just one right way to learn law and have a practice in law.” - Andraya Brunau

Law firm business development does not have to mean becoming someone you are not.

In this episode of So Much To Say: A Legal Podcast For People, Megan Senese and Jennifer Ramsey sit down with IP litigation partner Andraya Brunau to explore what it looks like to build a legal career, a client base, and a team around genuine relationships.

Andraya shares how returning to law after parental leave helped her become more intentional about the practice she wanted to build. For her, a sustainable career is not only about finding work you enjoy. It is also about finding people you enjoy doing that work with.

That philosophy shapes the way she approaches business development. Rather than copying someone else’s version of rainmaking, Andraya focuses on clients who share her values, invests deeply in existing relationships, and builds trust with people who genuinely feel like part of the same team.

She is bringing that same thinking to the lawyers she leads.

Instead of waiting until senior associates are expected to produce business, Andraya is helping lawyers begin developing those skills earlier. One hour a month. Small opportunities to practice. Different approaches for different personalities. The goal is not to create one kind of rainmaker. It is to help every lawyer find a form of business development that feels natural, accessible, and sustainable.

In this episode, you will hear

• Why returning from parental leave can clarify what you want from your legal career
• How to identify the clients and relationships worth investing in
• Why business development should begin before lawyers reach the senior-associate level
• How law firms can make business development more accessible to different personalities
• What it means to leave a firm, team, or practice better than you found it
• Why there is no single right way to build a meaningful career in law

About Andraya Brunau:

Andraya Brunau is an intellectual property litigator and law firm leader whose practice focuses primarily on trademark and copyright litigation, along with patent counseling and litigation matters. She serves in leadership roles within her firm’s IP litigation and commercial litigation practices and is passionate about mentoring younger attorneys, making business development more accessible, and creating a better experience for the lawyers coming behind her.

This episode is brought to you by stage’s program, corduroy:

corduroy offers business development support for lawyers navigating parental leave. corduroy is a free, four-session business development coaching engagement for lawyers returning from parental leave. Most lawyers don’t need more business development advice. They need business development that fits real life.

Across the four free virtual sessions, we help you:

• Prioritize the relationships and opportunities tied to near-term revenue
• Define simple, must-execute outreach and visibility
• Maintain connection in ways that feel authentic and sustainable
• Adjust strategy as your capacity and priorities evolve

To learn more about corduroy for yourself or your team, contact us at [email protected]

Learn More:

• Connect with Andraya
• Learn more about Andraya
• Denzel Washington commencement speech

Related episodes:

• The Ambition Paradox: Why Working Mothers Are Still Expected to Choose (with Dr. Anne Welsh)
• What Makes Lawyers Stand Out to Law Firms? (with Albert Tawil, Founder of Lateral Hub)

Stay Connected:

Love So Much To Say? Let us know! Drop a review, give us 5 stars in your favorite podcast app, and tell us what made you laugh, think, or just go “yep, that’s me.” Every review helps us reach more awesome humans who want to make legal…well, human. 
Want to go deeper? Curious about 1:1 coaching with Megan or Jen? Or want the inside scoop on stage? Hit us up below, we’d love to chat!

• Learn more about stage
• Connect with Megan Senese 
• Connect with Jennifer Ramsey

Your perspective is coming from the clients that only you have served, the problems you have solved, the relationships you have built. That’s what makes you different and interesting.

Yet, everywhere you look, you can see something that makes you feel as if you’re not doing it right or not doing enough.

In this mini episode of So Much To Say: A Legal Podcast For People, Megan Senese gives you permission to stop looking at what your competitors are doing, and instead, evaluate what you are doing and why you started doing it in the first place.

This can be particularly difficult in the legal field. Over the years, Megan has decided not to look at stage’s competitors because she wanted to make sure what she and Jen were building was uniquely theirs.

Despite popular belief, it’s actually not helpful to see every decision your competitor is making, every design they are creating, or every event they are hosting. Instead, focus on your business goals and the clients you are already serving.

Who this episode is for:

• Lawyers trying to differentiate themselves in a crowded market
• Legal marketers developing brands for law firms
• Business owners who find themselves constantly comparing their work to competitors
• Anyone struggling to figure out what makes their voice, perspective, or approach different

Episode takeaways:

• Competitor research can be useful, but it shouldn’t become your strategy.
• Constant comparison can unintentionally make your messaging sound like everyone else’s.
• Differentiation comes from your own experiences, clients, relationships, and perspective.
• Creativity needs space, and sometimes that means intentionally tuning out what everyone else is doing.
• AI makes developing a distinct point of view even more important as content and messaging become increasingly similar.

How to stop building your brand around your competitors:

• Keep a pulse without obsessing: Be aware of what others are doing in your industry without letting it dictate every decision you make.
• Create space for your own ideas: Give yourself room to think before looking at how everyone else has approached the same problem.
• Listen to your clients: Your clients are the greatest source of information for what’s going on in the market.
• Use competitors to learn, not imitate: Pay attention to what works, and what doesn’t, without imitating.
• Trust your perspective: You probably already have something worth saying. You may just need to stop listening to everyone else long enough to hear it.

Stay Connected:

At stage, our business is you - what makes you different, what perspectives you have, and what you enjoy doing. If you’re ready to discover what makes you distinctive from the competition, we’d love to chat.

• Learn more about stage
• Connect with Megan Senese 
• Connect with Jennifer Ramsey

Love So Much To Say? Let us know! Drop a review, give us 5 stars in your favorite podcast app, and tell us what made you laugh, think, or just go “yep, that’s me.” Every review helps us reach more awesome humans who want to make legal…well, human. 

“Yes, your kids matter. Yes, your job matters. But you matter, too.” - Dr. Anne Welsh

What if the answer to working motherhood isn’t about getting better at doing everything?

Maybe it starts with remembering that you’re a person in the mix and you matter, too.

In this episode of So Much To Say: A Legal Podcast For People, Megan Senese and Jennifer Ramsey are joined by Dr. Anne Welsh, clinical psychologist, executive coach, and author of Ambitious Mother: From Surviving to Thriving in Your Career and at Home.

Anne was one of the podcast’s very first guests, and she’s back to talk about the book that grew from sentences scribbled in pickup lines, gymnastics waiting rooms, early mornings, and whatever five-minute pockets she could find to write.

Together, they unpack what Anne calls the “ambition paradox”: the message that being committed to your career somehow takes away from being a good mother, and that being a good mother requires sacrificing parts of yourself for the sake of work or other people.

They talk about the mounting expectations placed on mothers, why work can actually enrich our lives as parents, the perfectionism and people-pleasing so many women internalize, and what workplaces could do differently to support people with full lives outside of work.

Ultimately, Anne offers a reminder that applies whether you're a mother, a parent, or neither: you don't have to sacrifice everything in your life to be successful.

You’ll hear about:

• Why working motherhood can feel like an impossible, zero-sum game
• How Anne wrote her book five minutes at a time
• The perfectionism, people-pleasing, and pretending that affect women far beyond motherhood
• Why having something meaningful outside of work can make us more productive and resilient
• How expectations of mothers have intensified over the past two decades
• Why parental leave is only the beginning of the support working parents need
• How law firms can better plan for caregiving without placing the burden on child-free colleagues
• The difference between flexibility and true autonomy
• Why every season of parenting, your career, or simply life may require a different definition of ambition
• What happened when Anne took a chance and asked Robin Arzón to contribute the foreword to her book

About Dr. Anne Welsh:

Dr. Anne Welsh is a clinical psychologist, executive coach, consultant, and author whose work focuses on helping women navigate the intersection of career, ambition, identity, and family. Her book, Ambitious Mother: From Surviving to Thriving in Your Career and at Home, challenges the idea that women must choose between meaningful work and meaningful family lives, and offers practical tools for building a life that makes room for both, without losing yourself in the process.

Learn More:

• Connect with Dr. Anne Welsh
• Ambitious Mother: From Surviving to Thriving in Your Career and at Home
• Learn more about Anne's coaching and work

Related episodes:

• The Perfectionist Trap: Why High Achieving Women Think They're Failing (with Dr. Anne Welsh) 
• The Fateful Peloton Ride That Changed It All (with Megan Senese + Jennifer Ramsey)
• Why Most Lawyers Struggle After Parental Leave: What a ‘Mindful Return’ Looks Like (with Lori Mihalich-Levin)

This episode is brought to you by Lateral Hub:

Lateral Hub is the premier job board for top large, midsize, and boutique firms. Over 75 firms use their flat-fee membership to promote openings to laterals and judicial clerks as a transparent, targeted, affordable alternative to headhunters or LinkedIn. No hassle. No placement fees. Hiring in 2026? Don’t recruit like it’s the Stone Age.

Stay Connected:

Love So Much To Say? Let us know! Drop a review, give us 5 stars in your favorite podcast app, and tell us what made you laugh, think, or just go “yep, that’s me.” Every review helps us reach more awesome humans who want to make legal…well, human. 
Want to go deeper? Curious about 1:1 coaching with Megan or Jen? Or want the inside scoop on stage? Hit us up below, we’d love to chat!

• Learn more about stage
• Connect with Megan Senese 
• Connect with Jennifer Ramsey

Business development doesn't happen in a vacuum - it happens inside a culture.

In this mini episode of So Much To Say: A Legal Podcast For People, Megan Senese, shares a deeply personal story about interviewing for a new job just weeks after becoming a first time mother and how this is actually a larger conversation about workplace culture, drive and ambition.

Megan explores why talented people don't stop caring in unhealthy environments - they often care even more. But when people don't feel valued, trusted, or safe to contribute, even the strongest business development strategies begin to break down.

Who this episode is for:

• Lawyers working in environments where they don't feel valued
• Firm leaders looking to build stronger cultures and stronger business development
• Professionals wondering whether their workplace is limiting their growth
• Anyone trying to reconcile ambition with well-being

Episode takeaways:

• Whether you believe it or not, workplace culture directly impacts business development
• Feeling undervalued often causes people to become more guarded NOT less ambitious
• Creativity, collaboration, and relationship-building require psychological safety
• Sometimes ambition looks like leaving somewhere or something
• Sustainable business development begins with environments where people feel seen, trusted, and supported

What to do if your environment is holding you back:

• Pay attention to how your workplace makes you feel: Your environment shapes how confidently you show up.
• Recognize that culture affects business development: People build relationships more naturally when they feel valued.
• Stop mistaking survival for success: Working harder isn't always the answer.
• Choose environments where you can contribute fully: Your best work happens where your voice is welcomed.
• Remember that leaving isn't giving up: Sometimes it's the first step toward building the career you actually want.

Bring this conversation to your firm:

At stage, we believe business development isn't just about teaching lawyers what to do, it's about helping firms create cultures where people feel confident enough to do it.

Because relationships grow where people feel valued.

If you or your firm are looking for guidance when it comes to integrating effective business development strategies for your team, we’d love to hear from you.

• Learn more about stage
• Connect with Megan Senese 
• Connect with Jennifer Ramsey

Love So Much To Say? Let us know! Drop a review, give us 5 stars in your favorite podcast app, and tell us what made you laugh, think, or just go “yep, that’s me.” Every review helps us reach more awesome humans who want to make legal…well, human. 

"Can you leave some space for the possibility that you don't know everything, that there could be another side to it?" - Aaron Clark

Most of us think we know exactly what a "white collar criminal" looks like. Aaron Clark wants us to question that assumption.

In this episode of So Much To Say: A Legal Podcast For People, Megan Senese and Jennifer Ramsey are joined by Aaron Clark, white collar defense attorney and former federal prosecutor, for a conversation about justice, confirmation bias, and what it's like to stand beside people during the hardest moments of their lives.

Aaron shares why he left the U.S. Attorney's Office for private practice, what surprised him most about defending people accused of federal crimes, and why listening is often the most powerful skill a lawyer can have.

Along the way, the conversation explores reputation, second chances, business development, and why doing the brave thing every day often starts with something much smaller than you think.

Whether you're a lawyer, legal marketer, or simply someone who wants to think more critically before rushing to judgment, this episode offers a thoughtful reminder that every story has more than one side.

You'll hear about:

• Why Aaron transitioned from federal prosecutor to white collar defense attorney
• The misconceptions people have about white collar crime
• How confirmation bias shapes investigations and everyday life
• Why listening is one of the most valuable skills any lawyer can develop
• The human cost of criminal accusations, even before a verdict is reached
• What it's like to help clients navigate the most difficult moments of their lives
• Building a book of business after leaving government practice
• Why relationships, not sales tactics, drive long-term business development
• The courage it takes to do something that scares you every day
• How baking cookies became one of Aaron's favorite ways to connect with clients

About Aaron Clark: 

Aaron Clark is a white collar criminal defense attorney and former Assistant U.S. Attorney who spent years prosecuting federal cases before moving into private practice. Today, he represents individuals facing government investigations and high-stakes criminal matters, combining his experience on both sides of the courtroom with a thoughtful, people-first approach to advocacy.

Learn More

• Connect with Aaron Clark

This episode is brought to you by Lateral Hub:

Lateral Hub is the premier job board for top large, midsize, and boutique firms. Over 75 firms use their flat-fee membership to promote openings to laterals and judicial clerks as a transparent, targeted, affordable alternative to headhunters or LinkedIn. No hassle. No placement fees. Hiring in 2026? Don’t recruit like it’s the Stone Age.

Stay Connected:

Love So Much To Say? Let us know! Drop a review, give us 5 stars in your favorite podcast app, and tell us what made you laugh, think, or just go “yep, that’s me.” Every review helps us reach more awesome humans who want to make legal…well, human.

Bring these types of conversations to your law firm. These podcast conversations are the same ones happening quietly inside law firms. 

Through stage, we work with lawyers at every level and with legal marketing teams on client service, business development, and growth built on real relationships. If these themes are coming up inside your firm, let’s chat.

• Learn more about stage
• Connect with Megan Senese 
• Connect with Jennifer Ramsey

What if the thing you have been waiting for is you?

The right idea. The perfect timing. The person who finally sees your potential. The conversation that changes everything. The sudden burst of inspiration that makes the next step feel obvious.

We spend so much time waiting for the thing that will move us forward.

But what if there is no external thing coming?

In this mini episode of So Much To Say: A Legal Podcast for People, Megan Senese challenges the idea that inspiration has to strike before you take action. She explores why clarity often comes after you begin, and why the person you have been waiting on to move your career, business, or life forward might be you.

The inspiration you need may not be hiding in another book, podcast, conference, mentor, or opportunity. It may already be within you, waiting for you to trust it.

You are not only the person waiting for something to change.

You are the person who can change it.

Who This Episode Is For:

• Lawyers waiting to feel ready before taking the next step
• Professionals feeling stuck or lacking motivation
• Anyone looking for greater clarity in their career or business
• People waiting for the perfect idea, timing, or opportunity before they begin

Episode Takeaways: 

• External inspiration can be valuable, but it cannot act for you
• Waiting for the perfect moment can keep you from making progress
• Small, intentional steps create momentum and confidence
• You are the person most invested in your own growth and success

When You Are Waiting for Inspiration:

We keep waiting for the thing that will finally move us forward: the right idea, the right person, the right opportunity, or the confidence to begin.

But inspiration can only take us so far. At some point, we have to stop waiting to be chosen, noticed, or given permission.

The thing you are waiting for may already be within you.

Stop waiting for the thing.

You are the inspiration you need.

Stay Connected:

Your next step does not require more inspiration. It requires you.

At stage, we help lawyers and law firms turn ideas into action through business development coaching and fractional support. Whether you need a trusted advisor to help you build relationships and grow your practice or an experienced partner to help move the work forward, we bring the strategy, structure, and consistency needed to create meaningful momentum.

• Learn more about stage
• Connect with Megan Senese
• Connect with Jennifer Ramsey

What does it really take to become a Chief Marketing Officer at a major law firm?

For Koree Khongphand-Buckman, the answer isn't a title. It's earning the trust, credibility, and influence to help shape the future of a firm. 
“The title of CMO was more about, what do you get to do? I wanted the opportunity to impact and drive particular things within a firm, and to work with leadership at the highest levels.” 

In this episode of So Much To Say: A Legal Podcast for People, legal marketing strategists Megan Senese and Jennifer Ramsey sit down with Koree, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Foley & Lardner LLP, to discuss her journey from an accounting background to one of the most respected leadership roles in legal marketing.

From surviving her first week in legal marketing to building firmwide client feedback and lateral integration programs, Koree shares the lessons that helped her become a trusted advisor to firm leadership and why the best legal marketers think like business leaders.

Whether you're an aspiring CMO, a legal marketer looking to expand your influence, or a lawyer interested in how firms grow, this conversation is full of practical leadership advice you can apply immediately.

In this conversation, you’ll hear:

• How Koree moved from accounting into legal marketing
• What it takes to progress from marketer to strategic business leader
• Why relationships often open more doors than titles
• How to position yourself for leadership opportunities before you feel fully ready
• Why owning your work changes how firm leaders see you
• How Koree built client feedback and lateral integration programs from the ground up
• Why the best CMOs ask better questions instead of pretending to have every answer
• How to become a trusted advisor to lawyers and firm leadership
• Why leadership does not have to be lonely
• How great leaders create opportunities for the people around them
• Why legal marketers should stop waiting for permission to grow their careers

About Koree Khongphand-Buckman: 

Koree Khongphand-Buckman is chief marketing & business development officer (CMBDO) at Foley & Lardner LLP where she is responsible for leading the firm’s business development, marketing, client service and branding efforts across all practices, industries, sectors and offices to help the firm achieve its strategic objectives. With 20 years of professional services marketing experience, Koree is adept at crafting and implementing growth strategies for new and existing clients. 

Learn More: 

• Connect with Koree

This episode is brought to you by Lateral Hub:

Lateral Hub is the premier job board for top large, midsize, and boutique firms. Over 75 firms use their flat-fee membership to promote openings to laterals and judicial clerks as a transparent, targeted, affordable alternative to headhunters or LinkedIn. No hassle. No placement fees. Hiring in 2026? Don’t recruit like it’s the Stone Age.  

Stay Connected:

Love So Much To Say? Let us know! Drop a review, give us 5 stars in your favorite podcast app, and tell us what made you laugh, think, or just go “yep, that’s me.” Every review helps us reach more awesome humans who want to make legal…well, human. 
Bring these types of conversations to your law firm. These podcast conversations are the same ones happening quietly inside law firms. Through stage, we work with lawyers at every level and with legal marketing teams on client service, business development, and growth built on real relationships. If these themes are coming up inside your firm, let’s chat. 

• Learn more about stage
• Connect with Megan Senese 
• Connect with Jennifer Ramsey