When the public’s trust is at an all-time low, how can reliable solar companies connect with customers?

In this episode, Aaron sits down with Kristina Zagame, Senior Content Producer at EnergySage and host of Plugged In.

Kristina opens up about the power of personal storytelling, why solar is fundamentally an American value, and how the industry can recover from the “solar is dead” panic of last year.

You can listen to this episode here, or on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Connect with Kristina on LinkedIn here.

Expect to Learn:

* Why many companies are moving away from faceless branding and empowering employees to build personal brands.

* How focusing on a single human story (like the “neighbor test”) drives action.

* Tips for bridging the political divide (framing solar not as a tool for personal freedom).

Quotes:

"I've always considered myself a storyteller. The core of what I do is tell stories and give people answers."

- Kristina Zagame

"Fundamentally, we don't really trust brands or companies the way that maybe we once did. I think it's more important to have faces that people can resonate with."

- Kristina Zagame

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols: Kristina, over the last year, you’ve become one of the most successful representations of what I like to call the “in-house influencer.” I think a lot of people would call that a thought leader nowadays as well. And I think you have a very unique perspective on this since you’ve spent so long working in media. Why do you think so many companies are now putting faces behind their names in new ways?

Kristina Zagame: Okay, well first of all, thank you so much for saying all of that. I had no idea I was so influential.

Aaron Nichols: I’m still stoked you’re here. You do.

Kristina Zagame: Oh, well, thank you. I’m a huge fan of yours as well. And yeah, honestly, I think so... of course, yeah, I have a background in media. When I actually got hired into EnergySage, it had nothing to do with being on camera or doing any sort of video or influencer, or thought leader, anything. I really was just hired on as a writer.

I’ve had experience in journalism. I’ve had on-camera stuff. And during my interviews, when I would bring up my background, a lot of people would say, “Oh, you know, we’ve always had this idea to do more videos. We’ve always had this idea to do a show.” And they kind of pitched what is now Plugged In to me.

And I said, “If you hire me, I can make that happen.” Like, I was very much like, “Oh, great. I can do all of those things. You need to edit it? Cool. You need me to produce it? Cool. You need me to do this? Cool. Like, I got you.” So I think that was maybe part of the reason why I ended up getting the job. They’re all really excited about that.

Aaron Nichols: That’s my exact trajectory at Exact Solar. Yeah. Same thing. Hard to be right here. Yeah. I think all the best roles come from starting as a writer.

Kristina Zagame: But yeah, I think, honestly, companies realize... well, I think fundamentally we don’t really trust brands or companies the way that maybe we once did. At least for most people, you see most products are now being sold by influencers. Because if, you know, this company, if ABC tells me they have the best bubble gum on the market, I’m not going to trust them. But if my favorite YouTuber is saying, “I only chew ABC gum,”—which I just realized has already been chewed, so that’s gross—but anyway, if my favorite person is selling me, I’m way more likely to trust it versus the brand.

And I think that translates really well into what we do, too. You know, we can work for great companies. I love EnergySage as a company. Ethically, morally, they align with what I believe in. But a lot of people, you know, they see the bottom line. They see it as a business at the end of the day. It is a business. So I think it’s more important to have faces that people can resonate with. They trust... they say, “You know, Kristina has this background in journalism.”

It has always been my professional duty to try to be as unbiased as possible. Of course, I have bias in that, you know, I support clean energy and I think it’s truly great—although I feel like that’s not really a bias, it’s fact, but I’m sure we’ll get more into that. But, you know, I think people see me and know that it does not affect my bottom line whether they buy into what I’m saying or not. It’s really just me telling them what I’ve researched, what I know to be true, what I’ve learned through my learnings and interviews and talking to people.

So, I think that’s why this—and I hate the term influencer, but that is so—so I think that’s why influencer culture has become what it is now.

Aaron Nichols: Thought leader is the new influencer. Thought leader is going to be as cringy in a year, but yes. That’ll be your song a lot nicer at the moment.

I think I’m interested—and you can confirm or deny this as you see fit since you have a lot more experience in this area than I do—but it seems like it’s smart for companies to build in-house channels just for the simple reason that earned media doesn’t have the effect that it used to as well.

Kristina Zagame: Yeah, I think so. It’s interesting. One of the people who I interviewed for an episode of Plugged In is a YouTuber. I’ve interviewed a lot of YouTubers. They have their own name, their own channel. They’re not affiliated with any one company. They sort of gave me a piece of advice, a warning of, “You know, if you are just EnergySage, people aren’t going to subscribe or interact or be as engaged with instead of just being, ‘I’m Kristina Zagame.’”

And that was really early on. And I did, I took a little bit of the feedback only to my team to say, “Hey, I don’t think I should post on my own account.” Like, I obviously still work for this company, we’re coming to people from EnergySage. And I think EnergySage is in a unique position because we are completely free for the consumer. So people don’t feel as much like we’re trying to sell to them because it’s a completely free service for them to use.

But I did take that in trying to make myself more personable in my writing. I use a lot of “I” instead of “we,” just because I think that it is, again, so important for people to really connect with the person rather than the brand. So I’m not really sure if that answers your question.

Aaron Nichols: No, it certainly does. I just published an article on storytelling, and I dropped this line on the latest SunCast episode I was on to a good laugh, but I think no one wakes up and says, “I wonder what Bank of America is up to today?”

Kristina Zagame: That’s cool. Yeah. Yeah.

Aaron Nichols: You’re interested in people. You’re interested in journey.

Well, for anyone listening, welcome back to This Week in Solar. I’m your host, Aaron Nichols, the Storytelling and Policy Specialist here at Exact Solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania. And my guest today is Kristina Zagame.

Kristina, would you just briefly introduce yourself now that we’ve launched in and talk about your day-to-day life as the Senior Content Producer at EnergySage? Or is it Senior Content Producer 2? Did I get that?

Kristina Zagame: Yes, that just means I leveled up, right, in my career.

Aaron Nichols: Oh, okay. It’s good content to see.

Kristina Zagame: Yeah. No, although it often feels like... Senior Content Producer, Senior Content Researcher, whatever you want to call me.

My day-to-day really isn’t very glamorous. It’s a lot of time of me spent staring at my computer screen, reading a lot of research, reading a lot of thought leader posts on LinkedIn, trying to just get a pulse on what people are talking about in regards to energy, clean energy, any sort of home electrification topics.

And then, in regards to Plugged In, it’s a lot of reaching out, networking, talking to different influencers, researchers, scientists, you name it to get them onto the show to bring their expertise to our consumers.

But ultimately I think my job, like if I were to really pare it down, I’ve always considered myself a storyteller. I went into journalism as a young 17-year-old because I wanted to tell stories and I wanted to give people answers. And I think even though my career and job and overall trajectory has changed so many times, that is still the core of what I do, whether it is in web format for energysage.com or whether it’s for Plugged In, or even just messaging people on LinkedIn or whatever it is, the core of what I do is tell stories and give people answers.

Aaron Nichols: I’m interested to hear you elaborate on what storytelling means to you. And if you’ve read a lot of my LinkedIn content, you know I’m very biased in this area because energy as an industry for so long didn’t really have to tell compelling stories because it was just made up of regional monopolies. Now we need to, but our example is so far behind. And a lot of people who are very technically minded who work in industry, who work in energy, think that storytelling just means “let’s just make more graphs and make them look prettier.” I would love to hear from someone who’s been storytelling their entire career. What that means to you?

Kristina Zagame: Yes, yeah, definitely. For me, I honestly think when I think of storytelling, I think of telling one person’s story, right? So we can all read the charts: electricity bills are like this, right? Or like this—I don’t know what flip of the camera is. Our electricity bills are through the roof. When you hear that, you know it.

But then if you change it and you say, “Hey, my neighbor is a single mother with three kids and she got her utility bills and she’s broken into tears. She can’t pay it. She doesn’t know what to do. She might have to...” You know, if you start painting that picture, it gives people a different sense of, “Oh, this is a huge thing that’s happening.”

People know electricity bills are spiking, but until they fully firsthand experience it, where they see it happening to someone they know, or they hear it told in a compelling way... And that’s not to say that we should exaggerate things or clickbait things, like these are real stories that are happening. For me, it’s about finding those stories and telling them to people in a way that it’s going to resonate with people because I think at the end of the day, if you hear, “Okay, utility bills are happening, geez, that sucks,” move on. But if you hear this story about your neighbor... that’s the sort of thing that mobilized people to really want to take action to help in any way that they can.

Aaron Nichols: There’s some very sound social science behind what you’re saying as well, and this is... I’m very glad to hear that what has been sort of an instinctual soapbox rant for me is being validated by some of my soap experience. But there’s a reason that humane societies show you one puppy at a time. If the humane society says “we have a hundred dogs,” you’re like, “that’s way too big of a problem for me to even think about,” but if they’re like, “you can adopt Spud right now.” You’re so much more likely to take action because we can connect all things, but numbers, big problems, feel so out of hand so quickly.

Kristina Zagame: That is so true. You have to create, even if it’s a huge problem, it has to be a bite-size problem first if people feel like they can actually make a difference and make a change.

Aaron Nichols: Right. New York Times did that beautifully a couple months ago with the story of that Georgia single mother who was working three jobs, couldn’t get ahead. Her energy bills put her over the edge and she was just spiraling out of control. That’s probably where my example came from.

Kristina Zagame: It wasn’t on purpose, but I definitely could see that piece. So inherently, yeah. And I think that was one thing I learned pretty early on in journalism too, is, you know, you have to personalize everything, even if it’s not something that is fully personal.

I think even in breaking things down and checking things easier... you know, for a story about virtual power plants. That’s something that like no one cares when you say “virtual power” to it. But I said, “What if I told you you had a lemonade stand?” And this like, you know, who didn’t have a lemonade stand at least once when they were a kid or have kids who want to do a lemonade stand? That is something that people can easily latch onto and understand.

So I think to long-windedly answer your question: anytime that you can make a story personalized, make it interesting, give it that human feel. That’s what’s gonna work and that’s what storytelling really means to me.

Aaron Nichols: Amazing. And you, after running this show for a little while, exclusively focused on solar energy as someone who works for a solar company, you have some great insight and data on what most interests the public about solar. So I’m curious to hear you elaborate on that because I think it’s not always easy to get the public interested in it, especially because it’s too good at what it does. It just sits there and makes power. There’s no whirling. It’s very boring. So what [interests] the public about solar?

Kristina Zagame: Honestly, I wish I had some sort of profound answer for you here. I honestly just think it’s about money. The biggest thing about solar right now is: How much is it going to cost? Will it actually save me money? And when and how much is my return on investment? I think that’s where everyone’s mind is at right now.

And honestly, I think that is okay. I think right now, we are at such a period where people are struggling. Everything is expensive. I feel like every time I take a breath, it costs me $5. Especially living in Massachusetts. I mean, it’s truly... I can’t commute to work without spending 20 bucks. It’s really gotten out of control.

And so I think for people, you know, it’s just a gateway to: “Oh okay, there’s this one thing that’s going to go up on my roof. I’m not going to have to worry about it and it’s just going to save me money on these outrageous energy bills and then in the five years and seven years and 10 years, whatever it is, it will be completely paid off and I’ll just be enjoying the fruits of the labor.” I think what that’s what really gets people interested.

And then hopefully they stay around long enough to hear about all of the other benefits or, you know, if they get solar purely for the financial benefit, they might not realize that they’re also doing other great things like lowering their carbon footprint and ultimately helping their community, their neighborhood, their planet.

So at the end of the day, you know, if money is what interests people, money talks, and unfortunately we are at a time where people need to take care of their finances first and foremost. You know, there are people who have the means to get solar and are just like “Yeah I wanted to do something good for the environment so I put solar panels on my roof and I don’t really care if it’s using money.” That’s awesome. It’s not the reality for a lot of people. It’s an extensive product unfortunately.

So yeah I think that is what interests the public more but I also do feel like we have seen a big shift particularly within the last year, of more people interested in the idea of just generating their own power, specifically with battery storage, you know, having the backup and the energy independence of it. That has definitely been a huge motivator within the last year, and something that I think will increasingly hear as time goes on.

Aaron Nichols: I see that as very American as well, and that’s something that we try to lean into when we’re marketing to more conservative customers is just, you know, this has exclusively been owned by someone else for so long you can own it. You can control it.

Kristina Zagame: Mm-hmm. That’s actually why we did a whole Fourth of July themed episode on “Solar is American” because it truly is. If you think about... and I interviewed some solar installers that also happened to be former military members, and they said, if you think about the values of solar, the independence, the freedom... you’re taking control. It all is the same, it’s an American value, it truly is. So yeah, not to sound too kitschy with it, but solar really is an American value.

And it is interesting too. And I know in your questions, you kind of asked about other misconceptions people have about solar. I think the political thing is huge as well, which is also what inspired our first Plugged In conversation as well, about just like solar being bipartisan because so many people think—even for me, they’re like, “Oh, you work for a green energy company, you must be just like, flaming liberal.” And honestly, I’m like, you would be surprised to learn that most of the people who I talk to in this industry, a lot of the people I interview, a lot of the people just have read in demand actually tend to lean right. Not everyone. And I’m not going to ever say my political affiliation.

But no matter who you put your vote behind, I truly believe that this is for everyone, it can benefit everyone. And yes, unfortunately right now there are a lot of people in power who aren’t really putting their support behind clean energy. And that is sad because it is something that really is for everyone and benefits everyone. But yeah, I think that’s like a huge... probably the biggest misconception right now is that people still happen to think like, “Oh, if you have solar panels, you must be a crazy environmentalist. You probably just only eat granola and hike in the mountains.” And it’s like, no, no, no, no, like so many people benefit from this and really on all sides to them.

Aaron Nichols: I mean, I do eat granola and hike in the mountains. I mean, this is my name. It must be like Aaron.

Kristina Zagame: And I do as well. But you know, it’s just... it can be for people who do that and also for people who do whatever.

Aaron Nichols: Well, that... I mean, one of the things that gives me hope as well is that America is a nation of people with outlaw spirit. And as soon as you start telling people they can’t have something or shouldn’t have something, Americans are not related to that either. And solar has outlaw roots. I mean, a lot of the early technology was used to power people who were growing illegal herbs in California, as I’m sure you know.

Kristina Zagame: Mm-hmm. I also wanted to do an episode on that, but it got vetoed. Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, I guess someone’s producing a documentary that’s out next year. I’m interested to see it.

Well, I loved your “Solar is Dead” video as well. The intro was hilarious for you. I’d like the Halloween music and turned yourself black and white and made that face. And I love the quoted Mark Twain, who’s one of my favorite writers, Roughing It is one of my favorite books. What do you think people are misunderstanding about the solar industry and why do you think they are making that claim?

Kristina Zagame: Yeah, so I actually think we are partly to blame for the reason why people are [believing] this whole theory that solar is dead. And it’s because, you know, you and I chatted back in what was it, April or May now, about how we were worried about the ITC going away, the Solar Investment Tax Credit. And I think even in preparing this “Solar still makes sense and solar isn’t dead” video, I went back and watched my content and I said, well, I’m actually partly to blame for why people think that it has no future after this because the ITC was a really great benefit.

And we were trying to get as many people as possible to capitalize on this benefit before it went away. So in that, we had a lot of urgency messaging. And we were talking about... it’s not like we lied or we were inflated. It was a very real thing that we were trying to save or at least hope that the timeline wouldn’t be cut so short; a decade early seemed crazy. Unfortunately, we fought and we lost that battle.

But then I also think with that it did create this urgency messaging of like, “Okay, well now you have three months to get your panels up so that you can get this tax credit back.” And then people are like, “Okay, well, I didn’t do that or I missed that deadline or called my solar [installer] and they said there’s no way they can do it by the end of the year because now they’ve got a huge wait list.” So now, you know, no point. And there’s nowhere for the industry to go after this.

So I will apologize for my part. It’s not dead, but I do think we are in for a tough year. I think a lot of companies unfortunately have already been struggling. I’m sure a lot of them will continue to struggle as the year goes on, but I do think that it will be temporary. I think towards probably the end of the year and even into the next years, I see solar stabilizing and then eventually growing.

And I’ve talked to a lot of industry leaders who are seeing similar trends or projecting similar trends. I think a lot of that has to do with the improvement of financing options. I’ve written about clean energy and specifically solar since around 2021 in a previous role, and it was always something that we didn’t recommend any sort of third-party financing because in the past, there’ve been a lot of bad actors in that space. It’s been a little shady. It was just never the best deal for customers.

But I think as more people become interested in solar, but the financial barrier is just still what’s bottlenecking for people, I think a lot of new options have come out. You know, I was talking to Zoe Gaston from Wood Mackenzie and she was telling me about these new...

Aaron Nichols: She’s amazing. She’s so great. I’m very lucky.

Kristina Zagame: Really? That’s awesome. Yeah, no, she’s awesome. And she was telling me about, like, you know, those rent-to-own systems and so people can still get the benefit of owning their systems. But they rent them first so that they are able to have better financing. And, you know, I’ve talked to different people who are offering solar panel leases and PPAs that, you know, are decent human beings, are offering good options for homeowners. So, yeah, so I think that is going to help a lot with that divide and help keep solar alive for a little bit longer.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, and that’s... I mean we sold out for projects last year back in July or August and then we had to start thinking about how we wanted to show up so we didn’t do any of the “year is about to end” marketing but we did spin up some better financing options and find some good deals behind the scenes and we’re now very excited for 2026.

Kristina Zagame: Yeah it’s very promising. I think... and I had to be very careful in saying that. And I did actually get, I think my first piece of backlash... no, maybe not my first, it would have been quite impressive. But when I did that video with... talking about how TPOs [Third Party Ownership] improved, everyone’s like, “TPOs terrible and you’ve always said it’s terrible.” And I’m like, “Look, I admit it in the video that I have always thought this and things are changing, so hopefully people come around to that and I would never recommend something that isn’t a good deal for the homeowner.” So I hope they trust that I did my research and I know that it’s a good deal.

Aaron Nichols: Well, you have chosen to be a public figure. So you think you’re inviting the backlash as a...

Kristina Zagame: Yeah. I used to be a TV news anchor. Oh, yeah. It’s funny to me how many people just like take the time to type these angry comments as if they’re like, “I will only be happy when all of the content I ever see is just confirming what I buy.”

Aaron Nichols: I know.

Kristina Zagame: But I was a little worried. I’m not going to lie. I was a little worried when I started changing my tune and doing my own research about TPO. I was like, oh my gosh, people think I’m a hypocrite because you can find articles I wrote back in 2021 saying, “This isn’t a good idea.” So yeah, I wanted to just call it out and say, hey, this didn’t used to be a good idea, but times are changing and now there are really good deals you can get with it.

Aaron Nichols: Totally. And you’re allowed to change, Kristina. You’re allowed to change.

Kristina Zagame: Thank you for permission.

Aaron Nichols: Well, Kristina, obviously, I could talk to you for hours and I’ve listened to you for hours over the last year. We have what’s now called a parasocial relationship where I’ve followed a bunch of your content. If you’ve listened to any episodes of This Week in Solar [or] seeing some of my highlights, you know that I end every episode with the same question.

And it has to do with... I was at my grandma’s 80th birthday party. I got to speak last June or July. And I realized when I was sitting there and later when I was writing a post that she was born into a world where clean energy didn’t exist. And that was just years ago. Like windmills were there to pump water. And solar PV wasn’t invented until 1954, and then it was super inefficient until like the 90s. Jimmy Carter didn’t put solar on the White House until ‘79 and that was solar thermal. So all the whole growth curve of renewable energy has happened within her lifetime, like from the invention to where we are now.

And so you are going to play us out and just make a wild prediction. And don’t worry, 80 years from now means we’ll both likely be dead unless medical science advances. But what do you think clean energy looks like 80 years from now?

Kristina Zagame: It’s such a good question. I don’t know if this is more of like a think or a hope for me. I really... I think that it is going to be more just easily integrated into infrastructure. And that’s really what I hope.

I, again, I live in Massachusetts, so fortunately everyone is very solar-friendly here. And just recently I was driving by this big random parking lot that’s in my hometown. And they recently just put up, you know, solar over the cars. So now when people park their cars there, not only are they saving themselves from having to get all the ice off of their windshield, but it’s just making energy. And I’m like, why is this just not what everything is everywhere, you know?

Why in people... you know I know you post all the time. People are always like, “Oh, it’s so ugly, big solar farms.” First of all, compared to what? And second of all, a big parking lot is...

Aaron Nichols: What are those natural gas flame thrower lamps? They put in fields in rural...

Kristina Zagame: Yeah, yeah, and you can like see the pollution. Yeah, but, you know, a big parking lot is empty, but it’s there and it serves the purpose and everyone can agree that the parking lot is important. So why not have the coverage of solar panels and then it’s a benefit to you as well because now your car is also being protected from the elements.

And so I think that is something that will just start to be... like I want solar and clean energy in general to be more of a before thought versus an afterthought. You know, instead of “I’m going to build my home and maybe in 15 years I’ll think about putting solar panels on it.” Why not just build the house with the solar roof? Why not just build the house with the solar panels?

I think we’re starting to see it here. Massachusetts actually, my dad is a builder, I wrote an article about him and went to go see one of his houses because they had to make the house solar ready. It was something that was asked by the city, to just have it so that when people move in, if they want to put panels on, everything is already hooked up, they just have to put the panels on.

And I think things like that, having the solar windows on office buildings... Like, wouldn’t that be so cool if every city just had solar windows? Like, you know, the building’s already there. It’s not going out of our way to make... I don’t know, it just, to me, it doesn’t need to be as difficult as everyone is making it seem.

And so my hope in 80 years is that it’s just integrated. You know, more EV charging stations and gas stations, more solar panels rather than big ugly empty parking lots. That’s my wish.

Aaron Nichols: There’s an episode airing before yours where I talk to someone who works for an environmental [org in] Pennsylvania, about how they’re trying to pass legislation right now to make warehouses solar ready. Warehouses are a great example of that, because you can’t argue that you can make a fulfillment warehouse uglier by putting solar [on it].

Kristina Zagame: Right.

Aaron Nichols: It’s a big cement building. It might as well throw panels on the roof, and you can’t even see them up there anyway.

Kristina Zagame: Exactly. Yeah.

Aaron Nichols: Well, Kristina, it’s been a pleasure having you. Um, where can you be found online if you do want to be found?

Kristina Zagame: Yes. Yeah. Well, first of all, I encourage everyone to subscribe to EnergySage on YouTube so that they can watch Plugged In. Um, feel free to comment all the good things. And I will take the trolls as well. It helps my engagement.

So I’m also on LinkedIn. I’m not quite sure... I think it’s just Kristina Zagame on LinkedIn. So that’s pretty much where I spend most of my social media these days is LinkedIn, which makes me sound quite sad and old, I realize that is. I just, I can’t do like all of the different ones in the [sliding], it’s too much for me. But yeah, and I’m always looking for interesting thought leaders and guests for Plugged In. You were a great one, we’ll have, definitely have to have you back for something this year. So people can also reach out that way and see if they’re a good fit for something.

Aaron Nichols: Well, thanks so much, and for everyone who’s listening: That’s been This Week in Solar. Thank you.

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