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Solar's Perfect for Conservatives: Jim Gregory and Justin Mason
Aaron Nichols talks with Jim Gregory and Justin Mason of the Conservative Energy Network (CEN).
Jim is a former Pennsylvania state representative and now serves as the Executive Director of the Conservative Energy Network.
Justin is a grassroots organizer who started installing solar on rooftops and is now the Director of Programs and Operations of the Conservative Energy Network in Pennsylvania.
You can find them on LinkedIn here:
* Jim Gregory
* Justin Mason
In this interview, they dig into the ways clean energy helps uphold conservative values (property rights, jobs, national security) and how CEN helped save net metering in Pennsylvania.
Expect to Learn:
* How to talk to more conservative-leaning people about solar energy.
* How a last-minute amendment in Harrisburg could have ended net metering in Pennsylvania forever, and how CEN caught it and stopped it from moving.
* The four “pillars” that resonate in conservative communities (developers can use them to get their projects across the finish line).
Quotes from the Episode:
“Meet people where they are. Don’t preach—show up early, listen, and be a good neighbor.”– Justin Mason
“By putting solar on our roof, we just purchased our electricity seven years out.”– Jim Gregory
You can listen to this episode here, or on:
* YouTube
* Apple Podcasts
* Spotify
Transcript:
Aaron Nichols: Hello everyone and welcome back to This Week in Solar. I’m your host, Aaron Nichols, the Research and Policy Specialist here at Exact Solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania, and we’ve got a very special one for you today. These are some guys who reached out to me on LinkedIn that I’m very excited to talk to. I think they bring a perspective that is much needed in the solar industry, and with that I will go ahead and let you guys introduce yourselves. So Jim, why don’t we start with you?
Jim Gregory: Aaron, thank you. And I’m so happy that you felt confident enough in us from our very first introduction that you could see that we brought something to the table of value. Because in this space, it is hard to find folks that talk about conservative values and solar in a genuine way and sincere and with passion. I think that will hopefully come through with our conversation. I come at this as a former state representative, Pennsylvania. I served six years in the House, just came out last year and been with the organization since last December, and I’ve learned so much thanks to my colleague Justin Mason. He’s a wealth of energy information. He’s amazing—you’ll get that sense as he talks through this segment with you. But the opportunity to let people know that as a conservative, I had one of the most conservative voting records in the House. Years I had 88 to 90% conservative voting record. But I was willing to work with folks on the other side to get things done, and I have this job because of that job. And the willingness to show that I wanted to get stuff done and work with other people is why I’m here with you today. That’s probably the best way to describe me and I’ll send it over to Justin.
Aaron Nichols: Perfect. And just as a brief summary, let’s just give a high level overview of what that job is and what the Conservative Energy Network is as well. And either you or Justin can go for that.
Jim Gregory: Sure. And I should say my title is the Executive Director. And we are a third-party advocate and affirmation arm of solar and renewable energy. But we also stand up for all forms of energy. We believe that we are here to help those other forms—the below the line, below the ground forms—sustain themselves longer. We need them. We need them to produce renewable energy, in fact, and Justin could talk about that as well. Without fossil fuels, we can’t produce solar panels. So, you know, we all have to exist together. What we exist to do is to educate grassroots and grasstops folks at the legislative level all the way down to the township supervisor level, and then in the neighborhood level what is truly happening. With the emotional support that the folks who are against it put out there, it’s so much emotion and we present the facts and we do that in a number of ways. And so I think that answers that part of the question and I’ll turn it over to Justin.
Justin Mason: Thank you, sir. Aaron, thank you for having us on the show. Stoked to be here and stoked to participate in this discussion and stoked to be joined by Jim Gregory. We both love our work and we love the opportunities in which we get to perform clarification to disinformation. My name is Justin Mason. I reside in Western Pennsylvania. I got into solar by way of doing the labor. I was pursuing a master’s degree at Chatham University in sustainability. I happened to be a Republican. It’s an interesting mix, truly. Well, I got into putting panels on roofs and in fields and wrenching, often finding times in the garage with a wrench in my hand. But beyond that, I got the opportunity to apply my inclinations towards energy. I had early inspirations from a young age seeing the Drake’s Well here in Western Pennsylvania as a forefront contributor to the industrialization of energy, which borne out the world the way we knew it right at this point. So I got into energy through solar. I had inclinations through trying to join gas and oil previously. I was SafeLand SafeGulf certified, landed with CEN—Conservative Energy Network—and their grassroots are the Land and Liberty Coalition in 2020. Did some early work right before COVID hit and then came on in a bit more of a part-time capacity, forging into full-time for the Land and Liberty Coalition and growing my role into the Conservative Energy Network, Pennsylvania. Working with Jim today, we seek to clarify to the disinformation that occurs around the education of renewable energy projects. We have four ethos we stand on: jobs, economics, land rights, and national security. With these four ethos in mind, people like to say GSD—get stuff done. I like to say “go slay dragons,” and Jim empowers me to do so quite literally.
Justin Mason: Yes. Quite literally. We show up into local communities to speak to the concerns. Because rural Pennsylvania is experiencing a rate increase. And with that, there has to be ways for us to address that. And utility-scale solar is one way that is quickly deployable. Eighteen months, and we can have a utility-scale solar project built if all permits and everything are in place, right?
Aaron Nichols: Yeah. And I mean, private landowners and private building owners can also just opt out of crazy rising bills. I mean, that’s one thing that we love at Exact Solar—everything we install is behind the meter. I love your frame there, Justin, of slaying dragons. Personally, I’m very, very into mythology and storytelling and went through a lot of reading of Joseph Campbell and have a mythological understanding of the world myself. And I think as a way to ground this conversation and establish that we are on the same side—because I think that a lot of people will see the headlines I put up in this and they’ll think, oh, conservatives, they don’t actually care about solar. This is all some sort of phony thing. Like, you know, they’re on one side of the aisle, they must have this checklist of beliefs. I would be interested to have the audience hear the story of how we almost lost net metering in Pennsylvania and how the Conservative Energy Network stepped in to help. And I would like to, for anyone who’s listening who’s unfamiliar, net metering is how solar projects pay for themselves. Because an energy project produces energy, there’s a law—sorry, yeah, because a solar energy project produces energy—there’s a law that a utility company must buy that energy at a similar rate to what it would cost them to produce it. And that is what net metering is. And we almost lost that policy in Pennsylvania, and y’all were instrumental in helping keep it alive, so I would love to hear that story.
Jim Gregory: Sure, I can tell part of it and Justin may be able to tell the other part of it. In last session, the Senate put forth a bill that only the Legislature could enact the use of Solar for All dollars that were made available through the federal government for Pennsylvania. I believe that total was about $158 million. They didn’t act on that in the last session. And so early in this current session, the new committee formed—the Energy Committee formed—and Chair Elizabeth Fiedler put out the bill to get this moving early in the Legislature to help enact the use of those dollars here in Pennsylvania. And to our very happy willingness, Justin was actually asked to testify in the very first Energy Committee hearing here in Pennsylvania, and it was on the Solar for All bill because of his experience that you just heard about putting up panels and so forth from the labor standpoint. So, the bill eventually comes out of committee, goes to the House floor, and in caucus there was an amendment added by the Republican caucus, and this amendment seemed fairly innocuous, but it was put forth by Representative Williams—Craig Williams, good man—and when it came time for a vote and the amendment was being discussed, it was being discussed on one side that solar panel owners were getting people this money that they shouldn’t be getting, meaning net metering. I happen to be a solar panel owner on my roof and I’m enjoying the fact that I get money for the energy I produce. I would not have done that had I not joined this organization and learned what I learned about why this is a good idea for my own personal use, so I can tell that story. But in a weird classic Harrisburg story, the Democrat House committee person who is most well-versed on this amendment language was off that day and was not able to be there to vet the language, and it went forward for a vote and was passed with Democrat support. And after that happened we made them aware—to their chagrin, and you know these things happen, okay, we’re not here to claim some great success—we’re just here to again educate. And we educated on the fact that what they actually did was approve an amendment to this bill that would end net metering. There was actually pushback at the time. Now, can’t know—oh, you’re right. And we’re just glad that we were right and that that bill is never going to go anywhere beyond where it is in the House. And as a result, net metering will not see that change here in Pennsylvania. So yeah, we can claim that we are the reason that that happened and brought it to their attention. And the Dems did hear a lot from the environmental groups about “What are you doing?” They had to feel that pain. But unfortunately, experience is the best teacher. It’s OK. And here we are. And that won’t happen again, and we’re glad that we could play a role in that.
Aaron Nichols: Yeah, and we’re very grateful to y’all for catching that. I mean, obviously, as a solar company that sells behind-the-meter systems, net metering is a huge piece of what we present to our potential customers.
Jim Gregory: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that would have ended—I wouldn’t have done it without it. I can tell you that here on my own. Sorry, Justin.
Justin Mason: No, you’re good. That would have ended Jim’s ROI before he even got started. Yeah, absolutely. You know, and many others at that—many others would have been impacted upon that who have current investments out there on these systems to offset their energy usage in an energy stewardship position. Because, sir, you recognize just like we do—investing in solar for your own personal application—accessory usage as is termed inside of township language… it’s energy stewardship.
Aaron Nichols: Yeah, I was going to ask you more about that term when I heard it. I haven’t heard the term “energy stewardship” before. So, thank you for that.
Justin Mason: I don’t know where it comes from. I just started saying it because I recognize the importance of the position in which Pennsylvania plays energetically to the transmission scheme of the PJM and then as well nationally—our contributions—and internationally our contributions on energy. Pennsylvania itself is an energy steward. And Jim and I get to participate in that—and you as well, sir—as you are a wielder of ROI sales. You know, you help, you seriously help to give others the opportunity to be able to own their generation for a period of time in which no other form of energy could do so without owning a wind turbine, a small modular reactor to power your home, or even having a natural gas line outside of your home, like some Pennsylvanians are privileged to have because of the depth of the years in the agrarian world. Yeah, so energy investments are key, and when you make them, you’re an energy steward.
Aaron Nichols: And I think that’s a key point too that ties well into y’all’s beliefs is that when you own a solar energy system, the energy is yours. It’s not you perpetually renting energy from a utility company. It’s you—on your land or your home—owning the output of that system and deciding what you want to do with it.
Jim Gregory: Yeah, those are a lot of things. In addition to that, Aaron—though I recognize that what we did here for our own home actually helped my neighbors because outages here were occurring, and what we do by developing our own energy is we take and put less strain on my neighborhood’s grid by doing what we’re doing, because we’re not pulling energy that is going to their homes.
Aaron Nichols: Yeah, I think that ties really well into the next question, which is: What do you wish more conservatives understood about solar power?
Jim Gregory: Justin, go ahead, I’ll dovetail off of you.
Justin Mason: Sure. The investment opportunity that it brings—not only locally in an economic sense for in-development, because when a solar project comes to your town on a community or utility scale, there’s a lot of different contributors to constituting the construction of that facility. So, one, there’s an economic benefit; two, there’s a personal investment benefit that Representative Gregory is experiencing himself on his own roof at this time and will for years to come. Seven years, I believe, is ROI. Even our Pennsylvania Farm Bureau president, Chris Hoffman, will be experiencing himself as CEN helped President Hoffman of the Pennsylvania Farm Bureau secure a reasonable ROI—it’s two years in. He submitted for a REAP grant (Rural Energy for America Program) grant through Luminous Solar. Some friends of ours out of New Jersey—shout out to Greg Weissman and Stephen Schwartz with Luminous Solar, Stephen Owens. Awesome developers, awesome people to work with. They helped us get Chris Hoffman set up with solar too. So from a conservative standpoint, it’s not only the local economic flourishment and benefit that utility and community-scale solar projects bring, but it’s also that personal investment standpoint opportunity that even Jim can tell you about.
Jim Gregory: Yeah, and Aaron, the significance of having the Pennsylvania Farm Bureau president be a voice of support for why this is important for agriculture and for farmers. Not all farmers have Class 1, 2, or even 3 soils. Some have Class 4 and 5, and the ability for even a legacy farm—which means it’s a hundred years old or older—to sustain itself and continue and they have level 4 or 5 soil. They can’t continue to sustain just on crops. The opportunity to look at their bottom line and realize they can impact it… We’re always telling farmers, diversify, diversify, diversify—put up a chicken coop, do a welding shop, do a bike shop, do a market, do solar. Well, no, no, we don’t want that. We’re always turning around… Yeah, they have to diversify. And the opportunity to push back on those emotional—it’s a safety concern; it leaches; the ground is never going to be the same. The ground is never the same when a township allows for a development—housing development. Once that happens it’s gone. If you allow for solar, the ground is returned to its original quality when it is taken apart, and it has to be taken apart right down to the concrete pads. And so the ability for these farms, these townships, these communities that don’t have a tax base that’s growing—this is one of those ways to make sure that we’re keeping rates and taxes lower.
Aaron Nichols: And there are also responsible ways that you can build it and still steward the land. I mean, I invite any farmers who are interested in that to look up the term agrivoltaics, and specifically look up the Agrivoltaic Learning Center and Jack’s Solar Garden in Colorado, which I’ve luckily been fortunate enough to visit, and there’s different ways you can use solar on cropland and grow around it and graze around it as well, as long as it’s built the right way. There’s so many different options there. And I do want to take a second to hit on ROI and the impact you’ve seen as well, Jim, because I think one of the things that a lot of people who are just getting interested in solar don’t realize is that there is a return on investment. And you’re talking about a seven-year return on investment, but then you’re going to have free power on your home for another 18 to 25 years. So I’d love to hear you elaborate on that impact and how that feels as well.
Jim Gregory: Sure. This is the one thing I have learned since then—how blessed my wife and I are that we are in a position that we could do this project by purchasing our solar panels and not leasing them. It is the best way to do this but it is an outlay, and so God has blessed us with that ability to experience a luxury. And by putting solar on our roof, we just purchased our electricity seven years out. It’s really all we did. We were paying $360 on average per month. The toughest months were over five and six hundred in December, January and February. And our last two bills have been ten dollars. Yeah. And that’s real money. Not everybody can experience that the way we have been able to—I’m just glad that we did. I’m glad that I have—you know, God puts people in my life for a reason in my path and they put Justin in my path and we’re doing what we’re doing because of that part of the plan for us. And so it’s amazing that we are able to do that. I think to your previous question, and I think it dovetails here, is what I wish for. I wish that we didn’t get to this point where we are with misinformation because of the previous oil and gas wells and leases that went out to farmland. So many of them were taken advantage of and they’re just gun shy about wanting to do this because of those experiences. And so we’re trying to overcome those experiences as we speak—as everybody is. I wish we didn’t have to get to this point by that, but stories like mine, stories like Chris Hoffman… when those stories are told, I think we have a chance to overcome those. And as long as we’re dealing with developers who are recognizing the importance of community benefit agreements, the recognition of the importance of decommissioning bonding—doing bonding of over 100%, upwards of 120–125%. That’s real money for developers to put into projects that those communities can feel confident about and push back to those emotional pushbacks that exist—that it’s a safety concern, or “I don’t want to deal with these people because of what they did to me on my oil and gas lease”—that we’re using these stories to overcome those previous difficulties.
Aaron Nichols: Right. That makes a ton of sense. Yeah, I think it’s so important that people can hear from people like them, which is why I love the work y’all are doing. I mean, you know, the last thing a farmer wants is to be lectured by some banker in a suit, who just doesn’t understand what it’s like out there, doesn’t understand the things that they’re going through. And farmers have a lot of limitations on their land use that they also have to deal with. I have a very good friend who runs a farm close to me, and she has been trying to build a community center on her family’s land and she went through four years of nightmares with the county and then eventually was like, you know what, I’m incorporating my land as a church. Now you can’t mess with me. Farmers go through a lot and so it’s very important.
Jim Gregory: Aaron, I served, as I said, in the House for six years and I served two terms on the Ag Committee, so I got to learn a lot about farming. And one of the things that I think we all need to recognize is farmers don’t want to rely on anybody. They want to be self-reliant. They want to take care of themselves while at the same time taking care of us. Right now they’re having to determine whether or not bailouts for them are a good thing. They don’t want bailouts. They just want to farm and they want to be self-reliant. And this is one of those ways that they can be self-reliant. And we shouldn’t have people telling them that they can’t do it because then all they have to turn to is having to rely on others. And that’s not what they want.
Aaron Nichols: Right. And I think this goes back to misinformation as well. I think unfortunately, clean energy just gets lumped in with other political issues and certain people on one side of the aisle just don’t really question that they’re against it—just like certain people on one side of the aisle don’t really question that they’re for it. And it takes a little bit of nuance to reach out and be okay with these things and think about and actually have real conversations.
Jim Gregory: Aaron, I’m going to agree with you, but I’m going to add. Right now in Pennsylvania, there is legislation with the Lightning Plan by Governor Shapiro and siting reform. And siting reform is going to struggle to go anywhere because there’s also disagreements within each party. If a far-left group doesn’t want to see something happen that’s friendly for Democrats, they can stand in the way of what would appear to be an easy Democrat issue. But right now struggles within each party are also causing delays to moving policy forward in Pennsylvania.
Aaron Nichols: That’s a good point and thank you for adding that. So one of our big goals—and as we wind down, I have two more questions I want to ask you guys—and one of our big goals for 2026 is to expand further west, and we’re planning to head out towards y’all. We’re very excited as a 20-year solar installer that has a really good reputation to start building out that way. And we were wondering what advice you have for solar companies who want to land more conservative customers? What kind of messaging worked for you, Jim?
Jim Gregory: So the messaging that works for me is that I can stand on my own story. I can stand on my record as a conservative voter. I can tell you who I voted for—it wouldn’t be a surprise—but I also believe that we need to recognize the importance of landowners’ rights and property owners’ rights. And what’s hard for folks that are more friendly left of center is for them to message those kinds of things. And so that’s why they come to us—because we’re able to help them genuinely believe that they can message what we message, because at the end of the day, it’s about getting a project done. Justin, you have a little more experience with this, please. And we are running out of time, so I want to be respectful here.
Aaron Nichols: Yes, thank you. We can go to 10:45 and I’ll edit this piece out.
Justin Mason: When it comes to working inside of predominantly conservative communities—i.e., rural areas—right? Truly, red supply, blue demand. Very much so. And when it comes down to it, you have to be very genuine. When you show up to the township, you need to come to the township. If you’re an industry participant, if you are a developer, you need to show up at the township. You need to show up at the conservation district. You need to show up at the county. You need to show up in the legislative office. You need to find what’s the community concerns? What does the community need? How can you be a great neighbor to those who live around your installation? What’s the prevailing thoughts of those who are going to be living next door to your energy-contributing piece to their community? Find out that, have a conversation, shake their hand, talk to them in the front yard, buy a cup of coffee. Maybe take them out for a meal. Talk to them. They are the neighbors of your installation. They need to be courted. And that’s where trust is developed.
Jim Gregory: Aaron, there’s a lack of trust in so much of our lives these days. And if we can meet them where they are—meet them where they are. Don’t come to them and tell them. Don’t dictate to them. Don’t preach to them. Meet them where they are, and then go from there. That’s what we have found to be the best path to getting support for our organization, for organizations like yours.
Aaron Nichols: Of course. Yeah. We’re not here to save you. We’re here to listen. Early and often. So, to close things, I’ve asked every guest this question since I started this a few months ago. And it’s a really fun moonshot question that I like to throw out there. It started because I was at my grandma’s 80th birthday party a few months ago. And as I was writing a LinkedIn post about it afterwards, I realized like, wow, 80 years. This woman was born into a world where renewable energy did not exist. She was born in rural Missouri 10 years after the Electrification Act, so barely when the country had gotten electricity. The only way we knew how to generate electricity was to dig things up and burn them. We had no other understanding. Windmills, I think, just pumped water. No one had made them generate electricity yet. And within 80 years, everything that’s unfolded has basically come out of nowhere. I think the first solar PV cell was 1954. Jimmy Carter put solar panels on the White House in 1979 and those were solar thermal. They weren’t even solar PV cells. And then within the turn of the century, we’ve gone from—I think I was talking to someone yesterday who said somewhere around $40, $50 a watt for solar energy—down just to produce solar below a dollar a watt. So there’s so much change that’s happened in the last 80 years, and if you two were to just completely project a hypothetical future 80 years from now of clean energy, what would you say? And don’t worry, because we’ll all be dead. No one’s going to hold this. But I would love to—
Jim Gregory: Go ahead. You go first.
Justin Mason: Yeah. Oh, put it on me. Eighty years out—new technological applications of solar: windows, paints on buildings. I would say even changes to the way energy is distributed via energy generation, right? We might have microgrids be more of a thing, if you will, in the sense of dispatch for immediacy of generation and instant gratification of the needs that we all have. Energy demand is scaling year by year, day by day even at this point. So looking 80 years out, what will be the clean energy contributions to the grid? I definitely see fuel cell, energy cell, battery cell type technologies well dispersed through the grid system. And I don’t know—maybe obviously fusion and fission. And a whole host of new technologies, I’m sure, in geothermal. I bet geothermal is going to exponentially take off in the sense of clean energy tech through the decades. That’s my final answer, Jim.
Jim Gregory: Aaron, I’m probably not going to answer the question like that, all right? Like when we are in conservative legislative offices and we’re talking about the need for this type of energy source that we’re talking about—and we remind them that preppers are folks who they relate to very much. Preppers don’t want to rely on the government. They want to be able to rely on themselves. I’m hoping that 80 years from now, those preppers are still preparing and not having to live something really happened. So that would be my hope for 80 years from now—that preppers still need to be preppers. But I’m going to work in a personal story here: as a person who lives in long-term recovery for almost 16 years, I have a one-day-at-a-time motto. And so I don’t tend to allow myself to look out like that. I’m just taking it one day at a time because I’m not guaranteed tomorrow. And so one day at a time, I realize that what I would like for people to have is that realization that they can overcome the fear of this type of source of energy before the pain requires them to. And every day that they feel the pain of their costs going up on their energy bills or they feel the pain of a blackout or a brownout—in Pennsylvania, we never thought that would ever, ever happen here because it should never, ever happen here—but it’s possible because sometimes we’re our own worst enemy in taking what we have and eating our seed and turning it into prosperity for Pennsylvania. I’m just hoping that we get rid of that fear of these energy sources before that pain requires us to. So fear is a great motivator to make you do something or not do something, and when the pain comes, you realize “I gotta do it,” but I would like to see—any day—that people realize that fear is not worth the pain that they’re experiencing and it’s okay to engage in these types of conversations about what’s possible.
Aaron Nichols: Great way to end, Jim. Yeah, that’s a perfect way to bring us home. And thank you to everyone who tuned in today. That’s been This Week in Solar. Look forward to talking to you next week, and thank both of you guys for coming on.
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By Exact SolarAaron Nichols talks with Jim Gregory and Justin Mason of the Conservative Energy Network (CEN).
Jim is a former Pennsylvania state representative and now serves as the Executive Director of the Conservative Energy Network.
Justin is a grassroots organizer who started installing solar on rooftops and is now the Director of Programs and Operations of the Conservative Energy Network in Pennsylvania.
You can find them on LinkedIn here:
* Jim Gregory
* Justin Mason
In this interview, they dig into the ways clean energy helps uphold conservative values (property rights, jobs, national security) and how CEN helped save net metering in Pennsylvania.
Expect to Learn:
* How to talk to more conservative-leaning people about solar energy.
* How a last-minute amendment in Harrisburg could have ended net metering in Pennsylvania forever, and how CEN caught it and stopped it from moving.
* The four “pillars” that resonate in conservative communities (developers can use them to get their projects across the finish line).
Quotes from the Episode:
“Meet people where they are. Don’t preach—show up early, listen, and be a good neighbor.”– Justin Mason
“By putting solar on our roof, we just purchased our electricity seven years out.”– Jim Gregory
You can listen to this episode here, or on:
* YouTube
* Apple Podcasts
* Spotify
Transcript:
Aaron Nichols: Hello everyone and welcome back to This Week in Solar. I’m your host, Aaron Nichols, the Research and Policy Specialist here at Exact Solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania, and we’ve got a very special one for you today. These are some guys who reached out to me on LinkedIn that I’m very excited to talk to. I think they bring a perspective that is much needed in the solar industry, and with that I will go ahead and let you guys introduce yourselves. So Jim, why don’t we start with you?
Jim Gregory: Aaron, thank you. And I’m so happy that you felt confident enough in us from our very first introduction that you could see that we brought something to the table of value. Because in this space, it is hard to find folks that talk about conservative values and solar in a genuine way and sincere and with passion. I think that will hopefully come through with our conversation. I come at this as a former state representative, Pennsylvania. I served six years in the House, just came out last year and been with the organization since last December, and I’ve learned so much thanks to my colleague Justin Mason. He’s a wealth of energy information. He’s amazing—you’ll get that sense as he talks through this segment with you. But the opportunity to let people know that as a conservative, I had one of the most conservative voting records in the House. Years I had 88 to 90% conservative voting record. But I was willing to work with folks on the other side to get things done, and I have this job because of that job. And the willingness to show that I wanted to get stuff done and work with other people is why I’m here with you today. That’s probably the best way to describe me and I’ll send it over to Justin.
Aaron Nichols: Perfect. And just as a brief summary, let’s just give a high level overview of what that job is and what the Conservative Energy Network is as well. And either you or Justin can go for that.
Jim Gregory: Sure. And I should say my title is the Executive Director. And we are a third-party advocate and affirmation arm of solar and renewable energy. But we also stand up for all forms of energy. We believe that we are here to help those other forms—the below the line, below the ground forms—sustain themselves longer. We need them. We need them to produce renewable energy, in fact, and Justin could talk about that as well. Without fossil fuels, we can’t produce solar panels. So, you know, we all have to exist together. What we exist to do is to educate grassroots and grasstops folks at the legislative level all the way down to the township supervisor level, and then in the neighborhood level what is truly happening. With the emotional support that the folks who are against it put out there, it’s so much emotion and we present the facts and we do that in a number of ways. And so I think that answers that part of the question and I’ll turn it over to Justin.
Justin Mason: Thank you, sir. Aaron, thank you for having us on the show. Stoked to be here and stoked to participate in this discussion and stoked to be joined by Jim Gregory. We both love our work and we love the opportunities in which we get to perform clarification to disinformation. My name is Justin Mason. I reside in Western Pennsylvania. I got into solar by way of doing the labor. I was pursuing a master’s degree at Chatham University in sustainability. I happened to be a Republican. It’s an interesting mix, truly. Well, I got into putting panels on roofs and in fields and wrenching, often finding times in the garage with a wrench in my hand. But beyond that, I got the opportunity to apply my inclinations towards energy. I had early inspirations from a young age seeing the Drake’s Well here in Western Pennsylvania as a forefront contributor to the industrialization of energy, which borne out the world the way we knew it right at this point. So I got into energy through solar. I had inclinations through trying to join gas and oil previously. I was SafeLand SafeGulf certified, landed with CEN—Conservative Energy Network—and their grassroots are the Land and Liberty Coalition in 2020. Did some early work right before COVID hit and then came on in a bit more of a part-time capacity, forging into full-time for the Land and Liberty Coalition and growing my role into the Conservative Energy Network, Pennsylvania. Working with Jim today, we seek to clarify to the disinformation that occurs around the education of renewable energy projects. We have four ethos we stand on: jobs, economics, land rights, and national security. With these four ethos in mind, people like to say GSD—get stuff done. I like to say “go slay dragons,” and Jim empowers me to do so quite literally.
Justin Mason: Yes. Quite literally. We show up into local communities to speak to the concerns. Because rural Pennsylvania is experiencing a rate increase. And with that, there has to be ways for us to address that. And utility-scale solar is one way that is quickly deployable. Eighteen months, and we can have a utility-scale solar project built if all permits and everything are in place, right?
Aaron Nichols: Yeah. And I mean, private landowners and private building owners can also just opt out of crazy rising bills. I mean, that’s one thing that we love at Exact Solar—everything we install is behind the meter. I love your frame there, Justin, of slaying dragons. Personally, I’m very, very into mythology and storytelling and went through a lot of reading of Joseph Campbell and have a mythological understanding of the world myself. And I think as a way to ground this conversation and establish that we are on the same side—because I think that a lot of people will see the headlines I put up in this and they’ll think, oh, conservatives, they don’t actually care about solar. This is all some sort of phony thing. Like, you know, they’re on one side of the aisle, they must have this checklist of beliefs. I would be interested to have the audience hear the story of how we almost lost net metering in Pennsylvania and how the Conservative Energy Network stepped in to help. And I would like to, for anyone who’s listening who’s unfamiliar, net metering is how solar projects pay for themselves. Because an energy project produces energy, there’s a law—sorry, yeah, because a solar energy project produces energy—there’s a law that a utility company must buy that energy at a similar rate to what it would cost them to produce it. And that is what net metering is. And we almost lost that policy in Pennsylvania, and y’all were instrumental in helping keep it alive, so I would love to hear that story.
Jim Gregory: Sure, I can tell part of it and Justin may be able to tell the other part of it. In last session, the Senate put forth a bill that only the Legislature could enact the use of Solar for All dollars that were made available through the federal government for Pennsylvania. I believe that total was about $158 million. They didn’t act on that in the last session. And so early in this current session, the new committee formed—the Energy Committee formed—and Chair Elizabeth Fiedler put out the bill to get this moving early in the Legislature to help enact the use of those dollars here in Pennsylvania. And to our very happy willingness, Justin was actually asked to testify in the very first Energy Committee hearing here in Pennsylvania, and it was on the Solar for All bill because of his experience that you just heard about putting up panels and so forth from the labor standpoint. So, the bill eventually comes out of committee, goes to the House floor, and in caucus there was an amendment added by the Republican caucus, and this amendment seemed fairly innocuous, but it was put forth by Representative Williams—Craig Williams, good man—and when it came time for a vote and the amendment was being discussed, it was being discussed on one side that solar panel owners were getting people this money that they shouldn’t be getting, meaning net metering. I happen to be a solar panel owner on my roof and I’m enjoying the fact that I get money for the energy I produce. I would not have done that had I not joined this organization and learned what I learned about why this is a good idea for my own personal use, so I can tell that story. But in a weird classic Harrisburg story, the Democrat House committee person who is most well-versed on this amendment language was off that day and was not able to be there to vet the language, and it went forward for a vote and was passed with Democrat support. And after that happened we made them aware—to their chagrin, and you know these things happen, okay, we’re not here to claim some great success—we’re just here to again educate. And we educated on the fact that what they actually did was approve an amendment to this bill that would end net metering. There was actually pushback at the time. Now, can’t know—oh, you’re right. And we’re just glad that we were right and that that bill is never going to go anywhere beyond where it is in the House. And as a result, net metering will not see that change here in Pennsylvania. So yeah, we can claim that we are the reason that that happened and brought it to their attention. And the Dems did hear a lot from the environmental groups about “What are you doing?” They had to feel that pain. But unfortunately, experience is the best teacher. It’s OK. And here we are. And that won’t happen again, and we’re glad that we could play a role in that.
Aaron Nichols: Yeah, and we’re very grateful to y’all for catching that. I mean, obviously, as a solar company that sells behind-the-meter systems, net metering is a huge piece of what we present to our potential customers.
Jim Gregory: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that would have ended—I wouldn’t have done it without it. I can tell you that here on my own. Sorry, Justin.
Justin Mason: No, you’re good. That would have ended Jim’s ROI before he even got started. Yeah, absolutely. You know, and many others at that—many others would have been impacted upon that who have current investments out there on these systems to offset their energy usage in an energy stewardship position. Because, sir, you recognize just like we do—investing in solar for your own personal application—accessory usage as is termed inside of township language… it’s energy stewardship.
Aaron Nichols: Yeah, I was going to ask you more about that term when I heard it. I haven’t heard the term “energy stewardship” before. So, thank you for that.
Justin Mason: I don’t know where it comes from. I just started saying it because I recognize the importance of the position in which Pennsylvania plays energetically to the transmission scheme of the PJM and then as well nationally—our contributions—and internationally our contributions on energy. Pennsylvania itself is an energy steward. And Jim and I get to participate in that—and you as well, sir—as you are a wielder of ROI sales. You know, you help, you seriously help to give others the opportunity to be able to own their generation for a period of time in which no other form of energy could do so without owning a wind turbine, a small modular reactor to power your home, or even having a natural gas line outside of your home, like some Pennsylvanians are privileged to have because of the depth of the years in the agrarian world. Yeah, so energy investments are key, and when you make them, you’re an energy steward.
Aaron Nichols: And I think that’s a key point too that ties well into y’all’s beliefs is that when you own a solar energy system, the energy is yours. It’s not you perpetually renting energy from a utility company. It’s you—on your land or your home—owning the output of that system and deciding what you want to do with it.
Jim Gregory: Yeah, those are a lot of things. In addition to that, Aaron—though I recognize that what we did here for our own home actually helped my neighbors because outages here were occurring, and what we do by developing our own energy is we take and put less strain on my neighborhood’s grid by doing what we’re doing, because we’re not pulling energy that is going to their homes.
Aaron Nichols: Yeah, I think that ties really well into the next question, which is: What do you wish more conservatives understood about solar power?
Jim Gregory: Justin, go ahead, I’ll dovetail off of you.
Justin Mason: Sure. The investment opportunity that it brings—not only locally in an economic sense for in-development, because when a solar project comes to your town on a community or utility scale, there’s a lot of different contributors to constituting the construction of that facility. So, one, there’s an economic benefit; two, there’s a personal investment benefit that Representative Gregory is experiencing himself on his own roof at this time and will for years to come. Seven years, I believe, is ROI. Even our Pennsylvania Farm Bureau president, Chris Hoffman, will be experiencing himself as CEN helped President Hoffman of the Pennsylvania Farm Bureau secure a reasonable ROI—it’s two years in. He submitted for a REAP grant (Rural Energy for America Program) grant through Luminous Solar. Some friends of ours out of New Jersey—shout out to Greg Weissman and Stephen Schwartz with Luminous Solar, Stephen Owens. Awesome developers, awesome people to work with. They helped us get Chris Hoffman set up with solar too. So from a conservative standpoint, it’s not only the local economic flourishment and benefit that utility and community-scale solar projects bring, but it’s also that personal investment standpoint opportunity that even Jim can tell you about.
Jim Gregory: Yeah, and Aaron, the significance of having the Pennsylvania Farm Bureau president be a voice of support for why this is important for agriculture and for farmers. Not all farmers have Class 1, 2, or even 3 soils. Some have Class 4 and 5, and the ability for even a legacy farm—which means it’s a hundred years old or older—to sustain itself and continue and they have level 4 or 5 soil. They can’t continue to sustain just on crops. The opportunity to look at their bottom line and realize they can impact it… We’re always telling farmers, diversify, diversify, diversify—put up a chicken coop, do a welding shop, do a bike shop, do a market, do solar. Well, no, no, we don’t want that. We’re always turning around… Yeah, they have to diversify. And the opportunity to push back on those emotional—it’s a safety concern; it leaches; the ground is never going to be the same. The ground is never the same when a township allows for a development—housing development. Once that happens it’s gone. If you allow for solar, the ground is returned to its original quality when it is taken apart, and it has to be taken apart right down to the concrete pads. And so the ability for these farms, these townships, these communities that don’t have a tax base that’s growing—this is one of those ways to make sure that we’re keeping rates and taxes lower.
Aaron Nichols: And there are also responsible ways that you can build it and still steward the land. I mean, I invite any farmers who are interested in that to look up the term agrivoltaics, and specifically look up the Agrivoltaic Learning Center and Jack’s Solar Garden in Colorado, which I’ve luckily been fortunate enough to visit, and there’s different ways you can use solar on cropland and grow around it and graze around it as well, as long as it’s built the right way. There’s so many different options there. And I do want to take a second to hit on ROI and the impact you’ve seen as well, Jim, because I think one of the things that a lot of people who are just getting interested in solar don’t realize is that there is a return on investment. And you’re talking about a seven-year return on investment, but then you’re going to have free power on your home for another 18 to 25 years. So I’d love to hear you elaborate on that impact and how that feels as well.
Jim Gregory: Sure. This is the one thing I have learned since then—how blessed my wife and I are that we are in a position that we could do this project by purchasing our solar panels and not leasing them. It is the best way to do this but it is an outlay, and so God has blessed us with that ability to experience a luxury. And by putting solar on our roof, we just purchased our electricity seven years out. It’s really all we did. We were paying $360 on average per month. The toughest months were over five and six hundred in December, January and February. And our last two bills have been ten dollars. Yeah. And that’s real money. Not everybody can experience that the way we have been able to—I’m just glad that we did. I’m glad that I have—you know, God puts people in my life for a reason in my path and they put Justin in my path and we’re doing what we’re doing because of that part of the plan for us. And so it’s amazing that we are able to do that. I think to your previous question, and I think it dovetails here, is what I wish for. I wish that we didn’t get to this point where we are with misinformation because of the previous oil and gas wells and leases that went out to farmland. So many of them were taken advantage of and they’re just gun shy about wanting to do this because of those experiences. And so we’re trying to overcome those experiences as we speak—as everybody is. I wish we didn’t have to get to this point by that, but stories like mine, stories like Chris Hoffman… when those stories are told, I think we have a chance to overcome those. And as long as we’re dealing with developers who are recognizing the importance of community benefit agreements, the recognition of the importance of decommissioning bonding—doing bonding of over 100%, upwards of 120–125%. That’s real money for developers to put into projects that those communities can feel confident about and push back to those emotional pushbacks that exist—that it’s a safety concern, or “I don’t want to deal with these people because of what they did to me on my oil and gas lease”—that we’re using these stories to overcome those previous difficulties.
Aaron Nichols: Right. That makes a ton of sense. Yeah, I think it’s so important that people can hear from people like them, which is why I love the work y’all are doing. I mean, you know, the last thing a farmer wants is to be lectured by some banker in a suit, who just doesn’t understand what it’s like out there, doesn’t understand the things that they’re going through. And farmers have a lot of limitations on their land use that they also have to deal with. I have a very good friend who runs a farm close to me, and she has been trying to build a community center on her family’s land and she went through four years of nightmares with the county and then eventually was like, you know what, I’m incorporating my land as a church. Now you can’t mess with me. Farmers go through a lot and so it’s very important.
Jim Gregory: Aaron, I served, as I said, in the House for six years and I served two terms on the Ag Committee, so I got to learn a lot about farming. And one of the things that I think we all need to recognize is farmers don’t want to rely on anybody. They want to be self-reliant. They want to take care of themselves while at the same time taking care of us. Right now they’re having to determine whether or not bailouts for them are a good thing. They don’t want bailouts. They just want to farm and they want to be self-reliant. And this is one of those ways that they can be self-reliant. And we shouldn’t have people telling them that they can’t do it because then all they have to turn to is having to rely on others. And that’s not what they want.
Aaron Nichols: Right. And I think this goes back to misinformation as well. I think unfortunately, clean energy just gets lumped in with other political issues and certain people on one side of the aisle just don’t really question that they’re against it—just like certain people on one side of the aisle don’t really question that they’re for it. And it takes a little bit of nuance to reach out and be okay with these things and think about and actually have real conversations.
Jim Gregory: Aaron, I’m going to agree with you, but I’m going to add. Right now in Pennsylvania, there is legislation with the Lightning Plan by Governor Shapiro and siting reform. And siting reform is going to struggle to go anywhere because there’s also disagreements within each party. If a far-left group doesn’t want to see something happen that’s friendly for Democrats, they can stand in the way of what would appear to be an easy Democrat issue. But right now struggles within each party are also causing delays to moving policy forward in Pennsylvania.
Aaron Nichols: That’s a good point and thank you for adding that. So one of our big goals—and as we wind down, I have two more questions I want to ask you guys—and one of our big goals for 2026 is to expand further west, and we’re planning to head out towards y’all. We’re very excited as a 20-year solar installer that has a really good reputation to start building out that way. And we were wondering what advice you have for solar companies who want to land more conservative customers? What kind of messaging worked for you, Jim?
Jim Gregory: So the messaging that works for me is that I can stand on my own story. I can stand on my record as a conservative voter. I can tell you who I voted for—it wouldn’t be a surprise—but I also believe that we need to recognize the importance of landowners’ rights and property owners’ rights. And what’s hard for folks that are more friendly left of center is for them to message those kinds of things. And so that’s why they come to us—because we’re able to help them genuinely believe that they can message what we message, because at the end of the day, it’s about getting a project done. Justin, you have a little more experience with this, please. And we are running out of time, so I want to be respectful here.
Aaron Nichols: Yes, thank you. We can go to 10:45 and I’ll edit this piece out.
Justin Mason: When it comes to working inside of predominantly conservative communities—i.e., rural areas—right? Truly, red supply, blue demand. Very much so. And when it comes down to it, you have to be very genuine. When you show up to the township, you need to come to the township. If you’re an industry participant, if you are a developer, you need to show up at the township. You need to show up at the conservation district. You need to show up at the county. You need to show up in the legislative office. You need to find what’s the community concerns? What does the community need? How can you be a great neighbor to those who live around your installation? What’s the prevailing thoughts of those who are going to be living next door to your energy-contributing piece to their community? Find out that, have a conversation, shake their hand, talk to them in the front yard, buy a cup of coffee. Maybe take them out for a meal. Talk to them. They are the neighbors of your installation. They need to be courted. And that’s where trust is developed.
Jim Gregory: Aaron, there’s a lack of trust in so much of our lives these days. And if we can meet them where they are—meet them where they are. Don’t come to them and tell them. Don’t dictate to them. Don’t preach to them. Meet them where they are, and then go from there. That’s what we have found to be the best path to getting support for our organization, for organizations like yours.
Aaron Nichols: Of course. Yeah. We’re not here to save you. We’re here to listen. Early and often. So, to close things, I’ve asked every guest this question since I started this a few months ago. And it’s a really fun moonshot question that I like to throw out there. It started because I was at my grandma’s 80th birthday party a few months ago. And as I was writing a LinkedIn post about it afterwards, I realized like, wow, 80 years. This woman was born into a world where renewable energy did not exist. She was born in rural Missouri 10 years after the Electrification Act, so barely when the country had gotten electricity. The only way we knew how to generate electricity was to dig things up and burn them. We had no other understanding. Windmills, I think, just pumped water. No one had made them generate electricity yet. And within 80 years, everything that’s unfolded has basically come out of nowhere. I think the first solar PV cell was 1954. Jimmy Carter put solar panels on the White House in 1979 and those were solar thermal. They weren’t even solar PV cells. And then within the turn of the century, we’ve gone from—I think I was talking to someone yesterday who said somewhere around $40, $50 a watt for solar energy—down just to produce solar below a dollar a watt. So there’s so much change that’s happened in the last 80 years, and if you two were to just completely project a hypothetical future 80 years from now of clean energy, what would you say? And don’t worry, because we’ll all be dead. No one’s going to hold this. But I would love to—
Jim Gregory: Go ahead. You go first.
Justin Mason: Yeah. Oh, put it on me. Eighty years out—new technological applications of solar: windows, paints on buildings. I would say even changes to the way energy is distributed via energy generation, right? We might have microgrids be more of a thing, if you will, in the sense of dispatch for immediacy of generation and instant gratification of the needs that we all have. Energy demand is scaling year by year, day by day even at this point. So looking 80 years out, what will be the clean energy contributions to the grid? I definitely see fuel cell, energy cell, battery cell type technologies well dispersed through the grid system. And I don’t know—maybe obviously fusion and fission. And a whole host of new technologies, I’m sure, in geothermal. I bet geothermal is going to exponentially take off in the sense of clean energy tech through the decades. That’s my final answer, Jim.
Jim Gregory: Aaron, I’m probably not going to answer the question like that, all right? Like when we are in conservative legislative offices and we’re talking about the need for this type of energy source that we’re talking about—and we remind them that preppers are folks who they relate to very much. Preppers don’t want to rely on the government. They want to be able to rely on themselves. I’m hoping that 80 years from now, those preppers are still preparing and not having to live something really happened. So that would be my hope for 80 years from now—that preppers still need to be preppers. But I’m going to work in a personal story here: as a person who lives in long-term recovery for almost 16 years, I have a one-day-at-a-time motto. And so I don’t tend to allow myself to look out like that. I’m just taking it one day at a time because I’m not guaranteed tomorrow. And so one day at a time, I realize that what I would like for people to have is that realization that they can overcome the fear of this type of source of energy before the pain requires them to. And every day that they feel the pain of their costs going up on their energy bills or they feel the pain of a blackout or a brownout—in Pennsylvania, we never thought that would ever, ever happen here because it should never, ever happen here—but it’s possible because sometimes we’re our own worst enemy in taking what we have and eating our seed and turning it into prosperity for Pennsylvania. I’m just hoping that we get rid of that fear of these energy sources before that pain requires us to. So fear is a great motivator to make you do something or not do something, and when the pain comes, you realize “I gotta do it,” but I would like to see—any day—that people realize that fear is not worth the pain that they’re experiencing and it’s okay to engage in these types of conversations about what’s possible.
Aaron Nichols: Great way to end, Jim. Yeah, that’s a perfect way to bring us home. And thank you to everyone who tuned in today. That’s been This Week in Solar. Look forward to talking to you next week, and thank both of you guys for coming on.
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