Sow and Scale

Cha-Ly is the founder and CEO of UrbanMetry, a data analytics startup based in Malaysia focused on optimizing how cities and governments make decisions (Raised from Monk's Hill Ventures, 500 Global (Previously 500 Startups)). After multiple pivots—from a VR-based property marketplace to a consumer listing site—Cha-Ly discovered her niche in B2B data. Today, UrbanMetry holds one of the most comprehensive data sets for urban planning, property development, and lending decisions in Southeast Asia.

In our conversation, we cover:
• Why Cha-Ly believes entrepreneurs must be a little “mad” to survive
• Early missteps in B2C and how she cut losses quickly
• Building 50+ layers of urban data and tapping into massive enterprise deals
• How motherhood prepared her for navigating startup chaos
• Real frameworks for complex B2B sales (including Miller Heiman’s “New Strategic Selling”)
• The four stages of data-based decision-making—and how governments often stall at stage one
• Staying grounded through cold swims, sleep discipline, and a focus on real-world impact

Watch elsewhere:
• Youtube: https://youtu.be/7GSUR6Sk6uw

• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/reimagining-southeast-asias-cities-through-data-cha/id1781364637?i=1000690313646

Where to connect with Chaly:
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cha-ly-koh/
• UrbanMetry website: https://www.urbanmetry.com/

Where to find Eric:
• WhatsApp group link: https://chat.whatsapp.com/CM0YQhhFZF0BfdtmAwTFKb
• Substack: https://sowandscale.substack.com/

00:00 The Madness of Entrepreneurship
00:34 Introducing Cha-Ly and UrbanMetry
01:14 The Entrepreneurial Journey Begins
02:37 Challenges and Pivots in Business
07:16 Building Urbanmetry's Data Empire
10:34 Navigating Southeast Asian Markets
16:06 From B2C to B2B: A Strategic Shift
25:37 Scaling and Solving Real-World Problems
41:53 Navigating Early Challenges and Founding Values
43:03 Trust and Difficult Conversations
45:20 Solo Foundership and Team Dynamics
49:39 Scaling Urbanmetry with Venture Funding
52:28 Innovations in Urban Planning and Data Science
01:00:16 Sales Strategies and Client Management
01:03:12 Technological Investments and Decision Making
01:11:43 Reflections on Entrepreneurship and Parenthood

Rishab Patwari is the CEO and co-founder of Hivebotics, a Singapore-based robotics startup that has secured over 1,000 LOIs worth an estimated USD$70 million with USD$500K in pre-orders for their autonomous toilet-cleaning robots—revolutionizing the commercial cleaning industry.

Listen on the go:
- Youtube: https://youtu.be/TC_8ikxPtds
- Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/73OY2tusErrnZEbwCvUP5d?si=p3P4rpoZS5-DNIMsMXAEaQ
- Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/usd%2470m-committed-before-launch-a-guide-to-robotics/id1781364637?i=1000684575100

In our conversation, we dive into:
🤖 The large opportunity of robotics and how Rishab found product-market fit
🤖 Securing LOIs and funding—why early validation is crucial for hardware startups
🤖 Building teams and advisors—when to hire, when to outsource, and how to manage them
🤖 Navigating Singapore’s tough hardware startup ecosystem—the real costs, challenges, and pivots
🤖 Achieving PMF in robotics—why functional demos, iteration, and customer feedback matter
🤖 Cash management, debt, and grants—balancing survival versus growth
🤖 Personal growth and founder mindset—staying resilient amid daily “failures” and rejections
🤖 Much more!

Connect deeper:
Substack: https://sowandscale.substack.com/
WhatsApp Community: https://chat.whatsapp.com/CM0YQhhFZF0BfdtmAwTFKb
Eric on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erictisme/
Rishab on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rishab-patwari/
Hivebotics: https://hivebotics.tech/

Quick Fire Round

Books:
- Start with Why by Simon Sinek – https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7108725-start-with-why
- Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss – https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/26156469-never-split-the-difference
- Culture Map by Erin Meyer – https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22085568-the-culture-map

Movie:
The Founder (2016) – https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4276820/

Sharon Lim is the Chairwoman (and former CEO) of Browzwear, a global 3D fashion technology company with 180 employees spread across APAC, the US, Europe, and the Middle East. Under her leadership, Browzwear has generated tens of millions in revenue, driven by a unique focus on “pulse” metrics and a culture of rest. Sharon has also founded a venture-building arm—investing in ESG businesses and pioneering AI innovation through Fashion AI Hub. In our conversation, we discuss:

• How she pivoted from B2C to B2B (and from near-bankruptcy to sustainability)
• Why she champions “pulse” metrics over revenue (and what that actually looks like)
• The importance of rest in a venture-backed, fast-scaling environment
• How Sharon embraces failure as part of personal and business growth
• Her approach to building a strong leadership team and handing over the reins
• Lessons learned on enterprise sales, open ecosystems, and sustainable growth
• Much more!

Subscribe to my Substack: https://sowandscale.substack.com/
Join the community on WhatsApp: https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqblBveTdnYk8xZ0dEV2d5TmxUMnN6LS12SW9VQXxBQ3Jtc0trd3pkWG5kdzFwS1Z0OWZUYm1HRUJqWVFac0RJaF9nTTFGYXBmWHFmaHdmOXZLajZIcVUtZmNwbVN6UV9qQ1p0ei1uM0F5bDRyNTBzNEpZaEZ3a1lTYTRqcGN5aTlQVFo3eUQ0X0pHMWxkQk1iSUdQSQ&q=https%3A%2F%2Fchat.whatsapp.com%2FCM0YQhhFZF0BfdtmAwTFKb&v=k2sBlu_v8pQ
Eric on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erictisme/
Sharon on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sharonlimyp/

Quick fire round:
 
Books:
1. How will you measure your life by Clayton M. Christensen: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13425570-how-will-you-measure-your-life
2. The Board and the CEO by Peter Greer: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35946208-the-board-and-the-ceo
3. Bible: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5883777-the-holy-bible

Movie:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2872518/

Listen on:

• Youtube: https://youtu.be/ILkenL_AS1A
• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3wE8800oYIEnxlIqlnBSZs?si=he2Mxkp5Ske7_zeeGQsbGg
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-failure-and-rest-built-an-8-figure-3d/id1781364637?i=1000682725275

Joel is the Cofounder and CEO of Protos Labs, Southeast Asia’s cyber-insurance and risk management startup. This is an episode on resilience, innovation, and faith, as he scaled Protos Labs from an idea to a Pre-Series A $3M-funded company in one of the region’s complex industries. In this episode, Joel shares how he:
- Navigated having only $5,000 in the bank while raising $3M to scale
- Quit his job based on faith to start companies when he had the most commitments in his life
- Built a proprietary cybersecurity framework inspired by a dream
- Combined faith and business to make business decisions
- Crafted a thriving company culture and won the NTUC Most Progressive Employer Award
- Positioned Protos Labs as a leader in Asia's growing cyber-insurance market

Join the community on Whatsapp: https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqblBveTdnYk8xZ0dEV2d5TmxUMnN6LS12SW9VQXxBQ3Jtc0trd3pkWG5kdzFwS1Z0OWZUYm1HRUJqWVFac0RJaF9nTTFGYXBmWHFmaHdmOXZLajZIcVUtZmNwbVN6UV9qQ1p0ei1uM0F5bDRyNTBzNEpZaEZ3a1lTYTRqcGN5aTlQVFo3eUQ0X0pHMWxkQk1iSUdQSQ&q=https%3A%2F%2Fchat.whatsapp.com%2FCM0YQhhFZF0BfdtmAwTFKb&v=k2sBlu_v8pQ
Follow Joel on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joel-l-8b390249/?originalSubdomain=sg
Protos Labs: https://www.protoslabs.sg/
Connect on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erictisme/


Shownotes:

21 Laws of Leadership by John C Maxwell: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/815716.The_21_Irrefutable_Laws_of_Leadership

00:00 Introduction and Guest Background
02:10 Joel's Entrepreneurial Journey before startups
03:11 Deep Dive into Cybersecurity
05:35 Protos Labs: Mission and Growth
07:29 Origins of Protos 
24:47 Hearing God's Call in Life
25:20 Building a Founding Team for Protos
26:52 Is the hate for strategy consultants warranted?
37:25 Creating a Positive Company Culture
43:50 Scaling Up and Fundraising Insights
48:00 Early Challenges and Government Contracts
49:46 Financial Struggles and Miraculous Funding
58:25 Balancing Faith and Wealth in Business
01:07:35 Christian Entrepreneurship and Success
01:14:26 YC's Request For Startup on Fintechs - Beginners' Mindset vs Experience in Cybersecurity
01:16:14 Innovative Approaches to Scaling and Productizing
01:17:37 Which threat is bigger - global or local competitors?
01:25:02 Balancing Personal and Professional Life
01:36:49 Reflections and Rapid Fire Round
01:42:06 Rapid fire round

Larry is the Founder and CEO of SoTravel, Singapore's social travel app. In this episode, he shares how he:
👉 Turned his side hustle into a full-time venture after getting fired
👉 Built multiple failed apps before discovering the 'right' way to build
👉 Executing ideas and features from first-principles 
👉 Validated Sotravel and continuously experiments with new features 
👉 Leverages AI and tech to build a $3 million company with just 10 people
👉 Created a thriving travel community of fans

Watch with video on Youtube: https://youtu.be/XXln2Jeh4NY
Join the community on Whatsapp: https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqblBveTdnYk8xZ0dEV2d5TmxUMnN6LS12SW9VQXxBQ3Jtc0trd3pkWG5kdzFwS1Z0OWZUYm1HRUJqWVFac0RJaF9nTTFGYXBmWHFmaHdmOXZLajZIcVUtZmNwbVN6UV9qQ1p0ei1uM0F5bDRyNTBzNEpZaEZ3a1lTYTRqcGN5aTlQVFo3eUQ0X0pHMWxkQk1iSUdQSQ&q=https%3A%2F%2Fchat.whatsapp.com%2FCM0YQhhFZF0BfdtmAwTFKb&v=k2sBlu_v8pQ
Follow Larry on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/larrysotravel/?originalSubdomain=sg 
Check out SoTravel: https://sotravel.me/
Follow me on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erictisme/

Shownotes:

Tarpit idea: https://www.ycombinator.com/library/Ij-tarpit-ideas-what-are-tarpit-ideas-how-to-avoid-them

Book recommendations:
Get Together: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/49766350-get-together
Lee Kuan Yew: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10379147-lee-kuan-yew
Nassim Taleb: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/242472.The_Black_Swan 

In this episode of the Sow and Scale and Scale podcast, Eric Tan converses with Junxian, the co-founder and CPO of Goodwill, 5x startup launcher, exploring his journey from launching multiple startups to exiting and scaling businesses. They discuss critical lessons in fundraising, surviving financial crises, aligning personal values with entrepreneurial ventures, and the importance of balancing work responsibilities with family life and faith. 

Follow Junxian's Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leejunxian/

Join the community on Whatsapp: https://chat.whatsapp.com/CM0YQhhFZF0BfdtmAwTFKb

Follow me on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erictisme/

Watch interview on Youtube: https://youtu.be/k2sBlu_v8pQ

Shownotes:
12 Angry Men: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050083/
Detective Conan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_Closed
Product Market Fit: https://www.ycombinator.com/library/5z-the-real-product-market-fit