We all know the measure of holiness we should aspire to is Jesus. But it’s hard not to notice the spiritual chutzpah—or lack thereof—of others. And it can get us into trouble. Elane and Benton chat about getting (and keeping) our egos in check where our spiritual lives are concerned.

Cocktail: The Editor

Theme song: “Moving On (Feels Pretty Good)” recorded by Benton Stokes. Full song available wherever you stream music.