Square Pegs

On this episode of Square Pegs, we are joined by Dr. Nadia Kellam, Associate Professor of Engineering Education at Arizona State University’s Fulton School of Engineering. Her research explores the unique strengths faculty with ADHD bring to the research environment. Today’s conversation reflects on the strides that have been made in recent years in (re)educating faculty to think and teach in a more neuroinclusive way, and the progress that we still need to make. Working through professional journals and societies, Nadia has spearheaded work on building reflexivity and a common, inclusive language, to ensure we continue to leverage the strengths-based approach and bring more neurodiverse minds into the STEM ecosystem.

Square Pegs is a series of intimate conversations about navigating life and learning within the neurodiverse community, hosted by Dr. Arash Zaghi, Professor at the University of Connecticut School of Engineering. In each episode, we talk to neurodiverse students and experts in the field of neurodiversity. 

Send feedback about Square Pegs to [email protected] or find us at squarepegspodcast.com.

00:45 Guest intro: Nadia Kellam, Associate Professor at the Fulton School of Engineering at Arizona State University

04:48 Breaking the image of faculty as perfect and showing they’re human and they too can be neurodiverse

09:45 Pivoting success metrics in academia to “scholarly products” outside grant funding and impact factors to make research results generally accessible

13:15 “The Disease of Academia” in failing to learn how to communicate to other stakeholders

22:47 Multimodality in education as a way to bring in neurodiverse learners

36:38 Past traumas with education and overcoming the internalized feelings of failure

43:48 Modern university teaching requires mentorship and compassion, not just lesson planning

52:30 Promoting positionality statements and thinking about how our backgrounds influence research design and teaching

1:00:25 “Neurodiverse” v “neurodivergent;” the impact of semantic language on real people

1:03:32 Concluding thoughts

On this episode of Square Pegs, we are joined by Jessica Schonhut-Stasik, a PhD student at Vanderbilt University and the Program Coordinator of the Frist Center for Autism and Innovation. Jessica brings a unique and compelling perspective to our conversation around neurodiversity. She recounts her struggles to be “normal” prior to her autism diagnosis in adulthood, and the complicated dynamic of masking that most neurodiverse people develop. Jessica details how, in pivoting to astrophysics, returning to university and moving to Hawaii, she learned to de-mask and see herself as neurodiverse.

This path eventually led her to join the pioneering ⁠Frist Center at Vanderbilt University⁠ where she is a fellow studying under renowned astronomer Keivan Stassun. Along the way, Jessica imparts valuable advice from how to navigate the overwhelming environment of major academic conferences to deploying the strengths-based approach to neurodiversity to help students grow into innovative scholars.

https://www.vanderbilt.edu/autismandinnovation/

You can find Jessica Schonhut-Stasik at ⁠https://www.jessicastasik.com⁠ or on her podcast ⁠AstronomerAND⁠. You can also reach out to Jessica on ⁠LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-schonhut-stasik/ or find her on Instagram or Twitter at @jesstella.

Square Pegs is a series of intimate conversations about navigating life and learning within the neurodiverse community, hosted by Dr. Arash Zaghi, Professor at the University of Connecticut School of Engineering. In each episode, we talk to neurodiverse students and experts in the field of neurodiversity. 

Send feedback about Square Pegs to [email protected] or find us at squarepegspodcast.com.

01:12 Guest intro: Jessica Stasik, PhD student in Astrophysics at Vanderbilt University and Program Coordinator of the Frist Center for Autism and Innovation

02:14 Galactic archeology: what is it, how are stars like fossils, and what can we learn?

06:11 Reflections on being the “odd one out” in childhood after autism diagnosis in adulthood

13:34 Mental health taboos in the UK and learning to mask

20:17 First experience de-masking

26:16 Managing conferences as a neurodiverse academic

36:40 Moving to Hawaii, working in observatories, and becoming an astrophysicist

40:15 Grad school and coming into neurodiversity as an adult

54:50 Sense of belonging and the Frist Center

1:06:37 Implementing the strengths-based approach to catalyze growth for neurodiverse students

1:13:15 “Losing talent is a funny way of saying destroying careers”: advice for other neurodiverse students

Today on Square Pegs we are joined by Charlotte, a first-year PhD student in Chemistry at UConn. Charlotte, who returned to higher education later in life, understands the importance of strong mentorships and support systems for neurodiverse students. Her story of resilience and crafting the environment to facilitate her own success shows both the trials and triumphs faced by many in the neurodiverse community. Our conversation today strays from our usual format, spending considerable time discussing the theories and systems trying to make higher education more inclusive and those resisting change. Such frank discussions are hard to find in the realm of neuroinclusivity and inspire by highlighting how far we have come, and how far we have left to go.

Square Pegs is a series of intimate conversations about navigating life and learning within the neurodiverse community, hosted by Dr. Arash Zaghi, Professor at the University of Connecticut School of Engineering. In each episode, we talk to neurodiverse students and experts in the field of neurodiversity. 

Send feedback about Square Pegs to [email protected] or find us at squarepegspodcast.com.

01:05 Guest intro: Charlotte, first-year PhD student in Chemistry at the University of Connecticut

04:50 Charlotte’s inspiration for neurodiverse mentorship and inclusivity based on negative experiences as an undergrad

09:42 Primary school: early diagnosis and learning self-advocacy

14:52 Middle school transition: the importance of resiliency and support systems in early childhood

21:00 Learning to love chemistry and seeing herself as a scientist

27:36 The impact of teacher mentality on student learning and the role of universal design

31:55 The strengths-based approach is taking universal design one step further

36:04 Undergraduate years: throwing a child in the deep end to teach them how to swim

40:02 Correcting the mistakes of past professors: meeting students with empathy

49:31 The systemic ableism of standardized assessment in higher ed and the role of advisors in breaking down barriers

1:06:42 Final thoughts and reflections

Today, we welcome Kianjai Huggan, a current graduate student pursuing a Master’s degree in Education at Harvard University. Kia also has an undergraduate degree in engineering and is a CEO of her startup company, Webquity, which she launched with the goal of increasing online accessibility for all kinds of learners.

Kia looks back on how early experiences with robotics sparked her interest in engineering and inspired her path as an innovator in STEM. Described by her teachers as “creative, but distracted,” Kia retells her experiences pushing against the boundaries of an education system that encouraged her to conform rather than embrace her creativity.

We also touch on the intersectionality of Kia’s experiences as a Black woman in STEM who identifies as neurodiverse. Kia reflects on how racism and stigma related to neurodiversity and mental health labels shaped her family’s choice to not pursue a formal diagnosis. While deeply personal, these experiences highlight a clear equity issue for students from minority backgrounds and for their families as they must navigate complex choices about the potential benefits and harms of seeking diagnosis, understanding, and support.

Square Pegs is a series of intimate conversations about navigating life and learning within the neurodiverse community, hosted by Dr. Arash Zaghi, Professor at the University of Connecticut School of Engineering. In each episode, we talk to neurodiverse students and experts in the field of neurodiversity.

Send feedback about Square Pegs to [email protected] or find us at squarepegspodcast.com.

01:16 Guest intro and educational journey - Kia Huggan, a Master's student at Harvard and CEO of the startup Webquity

05:59 First STEM experience with robotics and it's impact on the ethos and founding on Webquity

08:04 Adapting to and coping with the traditional engineering education system as a neurodiverse student

12:53 The "combative" elementary school years and embracing engagement in middle school

23:39 The impact of AI and chatGPT on education

33:42 High school, falling away from creativity, and how cultural impacts drive blending in over seeking formal diagnoses

41:25 Navigating how best to embrace the self vs conforming to what society expects

48:52 Exploitation of problems in the entrepreneur space, and how Webquity tries to avoid those pitfalls

58:40 Reflecting on Square Pegs and its personal impact

1:02:50 Final thoughts and reflections

Today, we are joined by special guest Dr. Joyce Kamanitz, a psychopharmacologist with over 35 years of experience in the medical field. We also welcome back Dr. Lexi Hain, who rejoins the conversation as a co-host as we explore how limitations in the medical and educational systems can shape our experiences and sense of self.

The conversation gets personal as Dr. Zaghi takes us back to his initial diagnosis with ADHD by Dr. Kamanitz. Together, they reflect on how this experience sparked a series of personal transformations and opened a path to a new line of research related to neurodiversity in engineering.

Dr. Kamanitz shares her experiences from years of working with neurodiverse adults who frequently come to her after experiencing high levels of anxiety and depression. Her discussion of a holistic approach to wellbeing, including the benefits of meditation and a healthy diet, reveals insights about the interconnectedness of mind and body and how the plasticity of the brain allows us to modify old habits and negative narratives.

Finally, she discusses how the demands of many environments do not align with or acknowledge the strengths that individuals with ADHD bring to the table and suggests that safe, nurturing spaces can provide fertile ground for neurodiverse individuals to thrive.

Square Pegs is a series of intimate conversations about navigating life and learning within the neurodiverse community, hosted by Dr. Arash Zaghi, Professor at the University of Connecticut School of Engineering. In each episode, we talk to neurodiverse students and experts in the field of neurodiversity.

Send feedback about Square Pegs to [email protected] or find us at squarepegspodcast.com.

Meditation Apps

Waking Up: ⁠https://www.wakingup.com/⁠

Medito: ⁠https://meditofoundation.org/⁠

Food Tracking Apps

MyFitnessPal: ⁠https://www.myfitnesspal.com/⁠

Lose It: ⁠https://www.loseit.com/⁠

Cronometer: ⁠https://cronometer.com/⁠

00:28 Guest introduction Dr. Joyce Kamanitz, Fellow of the American Psychiatric Association

03:38 The connection between Arash and Joyce

05:47 Adult ADHD: Diagnosis and the ADHD/Anxiety Venn Diagram

10:35 How external pressures driving psychiatric treatment keep physicians from helping patients

13:12 ADHD: from evolutionary advantage to modern “deficit”

24:58 The challenges of and solutions for productivity with ADHD

33:00 How to be an effective provider when every patient is unique

44:23 Joyce’s reflections on previous episodes, the resiliency of the neurodiverse brain, and nurturing growth

57:37 The foibles and fumbles of the mainstream medical and educational models of neurodiversity

1:10:12 Chronic labelling of the neurodiverse as learned helplessness

1:14:55 Changing your mindset, breaking the systemic mold, and finding a community

1:20:10 Learning lifestyle changes for better mindfulness

1:31:21 A discourse on the ideal mental health system

1:34:28 Final thoughts: wisdom to young patients and college students

This time, we chat with Dr. Caitlin O’Brien, a graduate who recently completed her doctoral degree in Structural Engineering at the University of Connecticut and is now working in the engineering industry.

Caitlin shares pivotal moments in her life, including her diagnosis with ADHD as a senior in high school, challenges and moments of success in her academics, and lessons that contributed to her personal growth. Insightful and self-aware, Caitlin explains how she uses cognitive behavioral strategies to reframe intense emotions and challenge negative internal narratives. Reflections on her educational experiences contrast moments of intense frustration and boredom with moments of creative engagement that led to a strong interest in engineering research. At times, the conversation suggests flaws in an education system that often fails to recognize and cultivate the divergent thinking abilities of students with ADHD.

Square Pegs is a series of intimate conversations about navigating life and learning within the neurodiverse community, hosted by Dr. Arash Zaghi, Professor at the University of Connecticut School of Engineering. In each episode, we talk to neurodiverse students and experts in the field of neurodiversity.

Send feedback about Square Pegs to [email protected] or find us at squarepegspodcast.com.

01:03 Guest intro: Dr. Caitlin O’Brien, recent graduate of the University of Connecticut, Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering

04:58 Redefining ADHD as an asset and deploying creativity in early education

07:23 Middle school: more rigidity and having to find your own creative outlines in STEM classes

08:25 Disconnecting from learning history as a series of facts rather than the story of a people

18:35 High school: getting “out of control” and starting to come to terms with ADHD

24:17 Finding engineering in early undergrad, and learning to balance coursework demands

30:26 Implementing a paradigm shift in understanding neurodiversity to leveraging peoples’ individual strengths rather than demanding we be Jacks-of-all-trades

41:52 Overcoming difficulties with focusing

53:57 Settling into graduate school and its immense creative freedom

58:55 Advice on the advisor/advisee relationship

1:01:20 Caitlin’s writing process and manufacturing the conditions to produce quality work quickly

1:07:35 Gaining the confidence to seek help when you don’t know what to do

1:17:34 Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and managing the day-to-day

1:23:26 Final thoughts and advice to past Caitlin

Today we are chatting with Angela, a recent UConn Structural Engineering graduate who studied with Dr. Zaghi. Angela shows how she not only came to accept her ADHD, but turn it into a strategic advantage in her graduate studies.

Angela reflects on her educational journey, touching on how traits related to her ADHD, like risk-taking and creative problem solving, helped her to become a better researcher and engineer. Revisiting discrete moments across Angela’s path from primary school to her doctorate unfolds into a discussion of systemic issues in the mindset around seeing ADHD as a problem rather than a strength and how this mindset contributes to pressure felt by neurodiverse students to silence their authentic selves, especially in the classroom. In this discussion of finding herself in the research environment, Angela leaves us with a model of how building self-awareness, embracing one’s strengths, and being bold enough to change paths can lead to unexpected opportunities.

Square Pegs is a series of intimate conversations about navigating life and learning within the neurodiverse community, hosted by Dr. Arash Zaghi, Professor at the University of Connecticut School of Engineering. In each episode, we talk to neurodiverse students and experts in the field of neurodiversity.

Send feedback about Square Pegs to [email protected] or find us at squarepegspodcast.com.

01:09 Guest intro: Angela, a structural engineer and recent graduate of UConn who studied under Dr. Zaghi during her PhD

04:39 Gaining confidence to hop into new topics without experience

10:42 Grad school and the accuracy of the narrative that you have to stay in the field of our PhD forever

14:50 Childhood and ADHD in primary school as the “disruptor”

18:51 ADHD, self-silencing, and not being able to be yourself

23:43 Middle school and starting to find excitement in STEM

26:21 High school and getting into engineering over biology

30:20 ADHD and difficulties with focusing while reading and writing

34:10 Strengths in math and pivoting to engineering

36:00 Entering college, getting an official ADHD diagnosis, and making sense of personal changes

47:00 Arash discussing his ADHD diagnosis later in life and coming to terms with himself

55:31 The impacts of the deficit-based mindset around ADHD and it’s impact on the individual

59:48 The final years of undergrad and getting into the lab for the first time

1:05:55 Research as a meaningful alternative for ADHD learning over traditional methods

1:09:47 Angela’s research during her PhD, and looking back

1:14:27 Pivoting from Civil grad school to her current job

1:17:39 Final thoughts and advice to past Angela

Today we are chatting with Katherine, a 2nd year Ph.D. student in molecular biology at the University of Connecticut with ADHD.

Katherine’s story is somewhat unique in the realm of ADHD, and we begin by talking about the unequal treatment which comes with the underdiagnosing of ADHD in women. This lack of acceptance of girls having ADHD played a significant role in her K-12 education, spurring the guilt and shame associated with several formative memories – especially a poorly-executed attempt at cheating on a Spanish test. Yet, for much of this conversation, these moments serve more as a starting point for a wider discussion about the issues inherent to the standardization of the American education system. We take a hard look at how we are failing to meet neurodiverse students in the middle. It was not until Katherine was able to take part in research as an undergrad that she felt her creativity was appreciated and important. This helped build her confidence as she stepped into graduate school and gave her the courage necessary to advocate for her needs now as a doctoral student. Indeed, as Katherine teaches us, the road may be long, and the system may be unfair for neurodiverse students, but there is a way to leverage moments of frustration with the system into long-term success.

Square Pegs is a series of intimate conversations about navigating life and learning within the neurodiverse community, hosted by Dr. Arash Zaghi, Professor at the University of Connecticut School of Engineering. In each episode, we talk to neurodiverse students and experts in the field of neurodiversity.

Send feedback about Square Pegs to [email protected] or find us at squarepegspodcast.com.

01:58 Guest intro and motivations for joining us: Katherine, 2nd year Ph.D. student in molecular biology

03:54 The stigma and power dynamics of unequal treatment and diagnosis of ADHD between males and females

07:45 Early childhood memories and lasting impacts on identity

13:10 The impact of parents filling gaps in executive function to shield their neurodiverse children

17:13 Cheating on a 5th grade Spanish test and the consequences of getting caught

20:24 The disconnect between American education focusing on memorization and the real world

25:30 The all-consuming nature of school for the American student

28:36 Boredom, play, and unstructured time are vital for developing creativity

33:25 Middle school and high school: first significant traumas from the accommodation system failing

39:10 We are terrible at teaching STEM in a way that excites students

48:54 The inherent failure of standardized teaching and the diminishing of creativity

52:12 College years and learning to work through the lack of structure

54:20 Undergrad research is extremely transformative

1:00:15 Education 2.0 and thinking outside the classroom for the future of learning

1:04:03 The benefits of purposeful failure

1:18:48 Grad school and navigating the advisor-advisee relationship

1:32:25 Wrap up: Advice to the past self

Today we are joined by Asia, who is pursuing her PhD in clinical psychology at UConn. Join us for a fruitful discussion about the unique strengths and needs of those graduate students on the autism spectrum.

Asia hopes to remind other ASD graduate students that they aren’t alone, their work is important, and that their struggles are not insurmountable, no matter how it may seem in the moment. She takes us through several discrete phases in her life, from early adolescence and realizing that the traditional education system was poorly equipped to handle her needs, to finding hope in the new environment of a performing arts middle and high school where everyone “embraced the weird,” and the return of having to fight the system in college. Throughout our conversation, a clear theme emerges: the importance of building an environment of your choice to prioritize your strengths and mitigate your weaknesses.

Square Pegs is a series of intimate conversations about navigating life and learning within the neurodiverse community, hosted by Dr. Arash Zaghi, Professor at the University of Connecticut School of Engineering. In each episode, we talk to neurodiverse students and experts in the field of neurodiversity.

Send feedback about Square Pegs to [email protected] or find us at squarepegspodcast.com.

00:52 Guest intro, Asia, PhD candidate in clinical psychology

04:13 Arash and Asia exchange their first traumatic memories with schooling and not being understood by the system

07:04 Innocence lost: the internalized effects of the system failing neurodiverse students

14:35 Autism and difficulties with the “implicit rules” of standard education

19:08 The catch 22 of getting accommodation and understanding, but only if you disclose your neurodiversity

23:50 The importance of environments, sound, and learning how to be productive in undergrad

29:22 Isolation and the importance of learning to communicate difficulties

35:54 The strengths-based approach: distilling what strengths autism brings to PhD work

40:45 Navigating the advisor-advisee relationship and avoiding pain points