0. Summary
This episode explores how Refine Labs lead designer Monica Beesting navigates creativity, design workflows, and authenticity in the AI era. Listeners gain practical insight into how human-driven creative direction remains essential even as AI tools expand what’s possible in modern marketing.

1. Speakers and Roles
Steph Cragnola – Host; marketer guiding conversations about growth, change, and modern marketing challenges.
Evan Hughes – Host; marketing practitioner offering perspective on industry shifts and AI adoption.
Monica Beesting – Lead Designer at Refine Labs; former museum designer turned marketing creative who brings deep experience in visual storytelling, brand identity, and conceptual design.

2. Topics Covered

• How designers adapt to the rise of AI in marketing

• Using AI to extend creative capability without losing brand voice

• Human art direction vs. AI-generated imagery

• Ethical boundaries and intellectual property considerations

• Collaboration patterns inside modern marketing teams

• Emotional and professional pressures surrounding new creative tools

• Maintaining quality and authenticity in saturated content environments

• Individual creative processes and where AI fits within them

3. Questions This Video Helps Answer

• How should creatives use AI without losing their unique voice or standards?

• What does “art direction” look like in an AI-driven workflow?

• How can brands maintain authenticity when AI-generated content becomes widespread?

• What are healthy boundaries for using AI in creative work?

• How should marketing teams think about tool adoption and individual creative processes?

• How do you balance efficiency with originality in a crowded content landscape?

4. Jobs, Roles, and Responsibilities Mentioned

• Designer / Lead Designer

• Art Director

• Creative Team / Graphic Designers

• Marketers

• Interns (museum, marketing)

• Developers / WordPress implementation

• Client-facing creative roles

5. Key Takeaways

• AI expands creative possibility but still requires strong human direction to produce cohesive, meaningful visuals.

• Each designer must identify their personal boundaries and ethical comfort level with AI tools.

• Creative tools should reduce friction, not introduce complexity—adoption should be purposeful, not reactive.

• Internal collaboration, especially inside design teams, remains crucial for troubleshooting and skill building.

• Unique, human-driven storytelling continues to differentiate brands as AI-generated content becomes ubiquitous.

• Designers can embrace AI as a way to bring imaginative concepts to life—not as a replacement for original thinking.

6. Frameworks and Concepts Mentioned

• Art direction for AI-generated images

• Image curation vs. image creation

• Conceptual storytelling

• Workflow efficiency vs. creative integrity

• Ethical use of AI and avoiding IP infringement

Refine Labs CEO Megan Bowen joins Evan Kirstel for a deep-dive into how B2B marketing must evolve for the AI era. The conversation covers modern go-to-market models, buyer-centric strategies, and how Refine Labs helps companies drive measurable pipeline growth through data, experimentation, and cultural excellence.1. Speakers and RolesMegan Bowen – CEO of Refine Labs. With 20 years in B2B SaaS at companies like Zocdoc, Grubhub, and WeWork, she brings deep expertise in modernizing go-to-market strategy and redefining marketing measurement.Evan Kirstel– Host and interviewer. Brings over 30 years in tech sales and marketing leadership.2. Topics CoveredThe evolution of B2B buying and selling from the analog to the AI era.Why traditional MQL-based marketing is outdated.The “Brand, Demand, Expand” model for full-funnel growth.Refine Labs’ AI strategy and benchmarking methodology.Alignment between sales and marketing in 2025.The future of content creation and human creativity in an AI-driven market.Building company culture around people-first principles.The Refine Labs Vault: democratizing growth frameworks and insights.3. Questions This Video Helps AnswerWhat’s fundamentally broken about traditional B2B marketing models?Why is the MQL metric no longer a reliable measure of success?How should marketers adapt to buyer-led decision-making?What is the “Brand, Demand, Expand” framework, and how does it work?How is AI transforming marketing operations and customer acquisition?How can companies build a people-first culture that drives performance?4. Jobs, Roles, and Responsibilities MentionedCEO, CMO, VP of Marketing, Sales teams, Customer Success and Account Management, Marketing Operations and Creative roles, Content strategists and paid media managers5. Frameworks and Concepts MentionedBrand, Demand, Expand (three-pillar GTM framework)Ideal Customer Profile (ICP)Buyer-centric marketingAI-powered benchmarksRevenue funnel analysis and pipeline conversion optimization6. Related ResourcesRefine Labs: https://www.refinelabs.comThe Vault: access to Refine Labs frameworks and community.HubSpot (mentioned as part of inbound marketing evolution)Grandin Holdings (Refine Labs investment partner)

Megan Bowen, CEO of Refine Labs, shares the core fundamentals behind modern B2B growth. She explains how buyer behavior has shifted, how marketing must evolve, and what it takes to build a profitable, scalable go-to-market engine rooted in focus, data, and customer understanding.Topics CoveredEvolution of B2B buying: analog → website → dark social → AI era.Aligning go-to-market around buyer behavior.Ideal Customer Profile (ICP) definition and validation.Strategic narrative development using Andy Raskin’s framework.The “Brand, Demand, Expand” model for growth.Simplifying measurement: attribution, share of search, and split-the-funnel analysis.Sales and marketing alignment through shared goals and accountability.Building efficient, profitable revenue systems.Questions This Video Helps AnswerHow has B2B buying behavior evolved and what does it mean for marketers?What are the most important elements of a modern go-to-market strategy?How can you define and operationalize an ideal customer profile?What is a strategic narrative and how does it drive company alignment?How should marketing and sales collaborate to achieve efficient growth?What metrics actually matter when measuring pipeline performance?Jobs, Roles, and Responsibilities MentionedCEO, CMO, VP of Sales, RevOps Lead, Account Manager, Customer Success Manager, Marketing Manager, BDR/SDR, Product Manager, Private Equity Partner, Founder.Key TakeawaysFocus beats complexity: simplify your go-to-market strategy around what works.The best companies deeply understand buyer behavior shifts and adapt early.A validated, data-driven ICP ensures efficiency and profitable growth.A strong strategic narrative, backed by leadership, drives internal and external alignment.Growth requires balanced investment in brand, demand, and expansion.Align marketing, sales, and finance goals to create predictable, sustainable performance.Measurement should prioritize insight and decision-making over vanity metrics.

Refine Labs’ Stacking Growth roundtable, hosted by Matt Sciannella with guest Ky Shaw of DemandOS, dives deep into performance marketing plays that generate real pipeline fast. The discussion covers tactical frameworks for aligning with sales, running direct-response ads, and launching actionable campaigns that drive measurable results in B2B environments.

Topics Covered

-How to build pipeline through performance marketing plays that actually work

-Aligning marketing with sales via pipeline activation projects

-Structuring high-intent offers for low-brand-recognition companies

-Best practices for direct-response advertising and manual bidding on LinkedIn

-Frameworks for upstream problem-solving and content offer creation

-Designing tools, calculators, and incentivized demos that convert

-Evaluating signal strength and intent from leads

-Examples of competitive and industry-specific campaign execution

Questions This Video Helps Answer

-How can marketing and sales collaborate effectively to activate pipeline quickly?

-What performance marketing plays are working best in B2B right now?

-How can you design content offers that signal strong buying intent?

-What’s the right way to use incentivized demos without attracting low-quality leads?

-How can marketers tailor campaigns for competitive versus novel markets?

Megan Bowen was featured on the most recent episode of Tech Impact, hosted by Evan Kirstel.

We're excited today to release the full interview, including extra questions that weren't aired in the TV segment. She touches on the new era of buying behavior, our Brand, Demand, Expand strategy, and how AI has impacted the marketing agency landscape.

Want to learn how to thrive in this new era of marketing? Listen in!

Called to Action is back with Sidney Waterfall to walk us through her journey as a marketer blending qualitative data with quantitative insights, and how that can help bridge the attribution gap.

Sydney shares her journey and emphasizes the power of qualitative data, like self-reported attribution, and how it complements quantitative analytics to foster business growth. Her unique approach lies in blending both data sets to inform strategic decisions and improve marketing functions. Sydney discusses significant career transitions, emphasizing pivotal moments that shaped her marketing philosophy. Furthermore, she'll share the role of intuition in making strategic marketing decisions and how qualitative feedback can validate gut feelings effectively. Throughout the episode, Sydney illustrates the importance of adapting to changes in marketing paradigms, such as the integration of AI and the growing importance of voice-of-customer data.

Episode topics: #marketing, #leadgen, #demandgeneration, #sales, #B2BSaaS, #digitalmarketing #measurement #metrics #sales #marketingalignment #data #attribution

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Sidney Waterfall

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Evan Hughes

Steph Crugnola

Our CEO Megan Bowen was a guest on Charles Gaudet's Predictable Profits podcast to talk about the outdated funnel and how to market in the AI era.

From Predictable Profits: "If you’re still trying to grow your business with traditional funnels and wondering why your capture, create, convert demand strategy isn’t working, you’re about to discover why those old-school tactics are completely dead. In this episode, I sit down with one of the very few people who actually gets it – Megan Bowen – and we dive deep into the evolution of buyer behavior from the analog buying era all the way through to where we are now in the AI era. We explore why 96% of the buying process now happens before prospects ever talk to your sales team, and Megan breaks down her game-changing framework that’s helping B2B companies completely rethink how they approach demand generation. Trust me, you’re going to want to have a pen and paper handy for this one because we’re going beyond the surface-level funnel nonsense that everyone else is teaching.My guest today is Megan Bowen, CEO of Refine Labs, and she’s someone I have tremendous respect for because she actually eats her own pudding. With over 20 years of experience building and scaling go-to-market teams across B2B industries – including companies that achieved IPOs and acquisitions – Megan co-founded Refine Labs in 2020 with a mission to completely change how B2B companies approach their go-to-market strategies. What I love about Megan is that her leadership philosophy isn’t some theoretical framework from a business book – it’s rooted in real-world experience as an individual contributor, people manager, and executive leader. She understands that without customers, you don’t have a business, and she’s laser-focused on creating the conditions for long-term relationships and meaningful results.KEY TAKEAWAYS:

• Volume-based funnel marketing fails because high-intent leads convert at 25% while low-intent leads convert at less than 1%
• Use “split the funnel analysis” to show the dramatic difference between lead quality and stop wasting budget on low-intent leads
• By 2030, nearly 100% of buying decisions happen before sales calls, making self-service information critical
• Put pricing, social proof, and competitive advantages directly on your website to eliminate buyer friction
• Brand marketing gets you into buyers’ “day one consideration set” before they start searching for solutions
• Dark social is the invisible 6-12 month buying cycle where prospects research before visiting your website
• Create content that actually solves buyer problems rather than just promoting your services
• Talk to your customers regularly to understand their evolving needs and grow beyond seven figures

Growing your business is hard, but it doesn’t have to be. In this podcast, we will be discussing top level strategies for both growing and expanding your business beyond seven figures.The show will feature a mix of pure content and expert interviews to present key concepts and fundamental topics in a variety of different formats. We believe that this format will enable our listeners to learn the most from the show, implement more in their businesses, and get real value out of the podcast. Enjoy the show.Please remember to rate, review and subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss any future episodes. Your support and reviews are important and help us to grow and improve the show."

Megan Bowen hosts ChampionHQ’s CEO Gianna Scorsone to cover Refine Labs’ Brand, Demand, Expand strategy. 

They discuss how combining brand strength, creating demand, and expanding existing customer relationships can combat current market challenges, especially in the AI era. The conversation demystifies these pillars and offers practical, actionable insights into efficiently integrating them into a comprehensive marketing plan.

Listeners are introduced to advanced concepts such as leveraging customer advocacy to enrich demand-generation efforts and using AI to enhance matchmaking between prospects and existing clients. With insights from real-world applications, Megan and Gianna elucidate why businesses must align sales and marketing strategies and adopt a proactive stance on expanding through advocacy. The duo also addresses the significance of correct budgeting, emphasizing that while demand often receives adequate funding, both brand and expand need stronger financial backing to foster long-term profitability and growth.

Episode topics: #marketing, #leadgen, #demandgeneration, #sales, #B2BSaaS, #digitalmarketing #ads #paidads #googleads #paidsearch #paidsocial #ctv #connectedtv

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Gianna Scorsone

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Megan Bowen

Called to Action is back with Liam Moroney of Storybook marketing to walk us through his journey as a marketer focused on brand and storytelling. He gives his history, philosophy, and advice on how to change your leadership's mindset. 

Liam draws from his extensive background in B2B marketing to share his experiences in navigating various industries, emphasizing the importance of moving from a 'growth at all costs' mindset to a more sustainable, brand-centric strategy. The conversation highlights key challenges faced by marketers in tech, especially in convincing stakeholders about the value of storytelling and brand awareness. Liam discusses how understanding the fundamentals of marketing and human behavior fosters better brand development and market reach. Stressing the significance of storytelling as a tool to improve brand recall and customer connection, Liam shares strategies for changing leadership mindsets resistant to traditional perceptions. This episode is rich with insights for marketers, challenging existing paradigms and encouraging more proactive approaches in achieving effective growth.

Episode topics: #marketing, #leadgen, #demandgeneration, #sales, #B2BSaaS, #digitalmarketing #measurement #metrics #sales #marketingalignment #storytelling #brandmarketing

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Liam Moroney

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Evan Hughes

Steph Crugnola

Matt Sciannella hosts Dale Harrison in a three part summer event series to cover the intricacies of Brand and Performance marketing. This is the full recording, including previously unreleased Q&A from the live audience, of the final summer event.

Dale presents a compelling case for revolutionizing how marketing investments are understood, measured, and communicated. This episode transforms complex financial details into digestible insights, revealing why relying solely on current period revenue versus cost fails to capture the true impact of marketing efforts.

Within this conversation, critical topics emerge around the technicalities of accurately quantifying the "R" (Revenue) and "I" (Investment) in marketing ROI. Dale dissects how traditional methods often overlook time lags between marketing initiatives and realized revenue, especially in B2B environments where extended sales cycles are norm. Through detailed examples, the episode guides listeners on associating past marketing efforts with current revenue, emphasizing the significance of contribution margin and proper attribution of marketing expenses. The discourse further unveils the misconception that brand marketing takes time to produce results, illustrating its immediate and lasting impact, and how historical brand efforts inflate future ROIs.

Episode topics: #marketing, #demandgeneration, #brand, #B2BSaaS, #digitalmarketing #ads #brandmarketing #performancemarketing 

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Connect with the hosts:

Matt Sciannella

Dale Harrison