We chat with Tony Zona, Chief Data Officer at Grant Thornton

In this episode, we chat with Tony Zona, the Chief Data Officer at Grant Thornton UK. We talk about leadership, data, and the cultural shift required to unlock the value of AI.

Tony’s 25-year journey at Grant Thornton, evolving from a tax trainee to becoming the firm’s first ever Chief Data Officer in 2022, is a masterclass in adaptability and innovation.

He offers a brilliant, people-focused perspective on data-led transformation, famously comparing siloed business units to different Italian dialects—and how his work has been about creating a common, understandable ‘business language’ for the firm’s 5,000+ people.

What You’ll Learn:

The Trojan Horse Strategy: Why Tony advises leaders to not talk about data, but instead use the excitement of AI as a Trojan Horse to secure buy in for essential foundational work like data literacy and governance.

Mindset Shift: Grant Thornton’s 3D Initiative: Tony details the firm’s unique, multi million pound 3D (Data Driven Digital Mindset) programme—designed to move beyond typical training by fostering a cultural shift and measurable outcomes among leaders and associates.

Data as a Feedback Loop: Discover how Grant Thornton turns data recording from an overhead into a self-perpetuating, value-driven loop by connecting high quality data directly to a leader’s top priorities, like forecasting and profitability.

Lessons for All Leaders: Tony shares practical takeaways for resource constrained leaders—especially those in the third sector—on how to start small, focus on core business values (like saving lives, not just profitability), and celebrate the ‘data wins’ to spark a data literate culture.

Before the interview, Zoe and Paul offer a considered appraisal of the UK AI skills report, discussing the dangers of a widening gap between the 'haves' and 'have nots' and the critical challenge of consistent implementation across all sectors, from top accountancy firms to grassroots charities.

A must listen for any leader struggling to translate the excitement of AI into practical, sustainable organisational change.

Show notes

Government AI Skills Framework https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ai-skills-for-the-uk-workforce

Editing and production - Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

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We chat to Katie Ghose CEO at KIDS and Helen Milner OBE, Group Chief Executive of Good Things Foundation

In this conversation, Zoe and Paul chat to charity leaders Helen Milner OBE and Katie Ghose to discuss the critical importance of digital inclusion, including its impact on disabled children and their families.

Helen and Katie highlight the pioneering work of the Digital Services Consortium, an innovative alliance of twelve charities collaborating to design and deliver essential digital services and support. The discussion delves into the seismic shift caused by the COVID-19 pandemic and how it both accelerated the need for and exposed the severe barriers to technology access faced by marginalised communities.

This episode is a must-listen for all charity and cross-sector leaders, covering:

The impact of digital exclusion on mental health and social connections.

The significance of charity collaboration and community support in achieving social justice.

Practical advice for charity leaders on embedding digital inclusion in their strategies.

The crucial role of continuous feedback from users in improving service delivery.

A glimpse into the future, exploring the transformative potential of AI and technology in closing the digital divide.

Join us to learn how these leaders are working to ensure a world where everyone can benefit from digital.

KIDS charity https://www.kids.org.uk/

Digital Services Consortium https://www.kids.org.uk/digital-services-consortium/

Good Things Foundation https://www.goodthingsfoundation.org/

Resources from Good Things Foundation:

https://www.goodthingsfoundation.org/our-services/national-digital-inclusion-network

https://www.goodthingsfoundation.org/our-services/national-databank

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2025/oct/21/channel-4-first-ai-presenter-dispatches?

Government AI Skills Framework https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ai-skills-for-the-uk-workforce

Editing and production - Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

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We speak to Eleanor Tweddell, executive coach, change consultant, keynote speaker and author.

We’re back for our new season with an amazing new episode! We chat to Eleanor Tweddell, executive coach and author of “Another Door Opens: Five Steps for Navigating Change in Life and Work”

Eleanor Tweddell joins Zoe and Paul to explore how leaders can face change with more calm, courage and agency. From building the habit of pause to working with the “change monsters” that derail us, Eleanor shares practical ways to turn micro-shifts into momentum, at work and in life. We also discuss how leaders can communicate well through AI-driven uncertainty without fuelling fear or dependency.

Eleanor is an executive coach, change consultant, keynote speaker and founder of Another Door. After two decades in senior corporate roles, she now helps individuals, teams and organisations navigate transformation with clarity and care. Her new book, Another Door Opens, reframes change as a skill you can practise every day.

Through her grounded, energising approach, Eleanor covers essential lessons for anyone leading (or living) through change:

Why good change starts by stopping—and how to make “pause” practical, not indulgent

Micro vs. macro change: building “change mastery” with everyday habits that stick

Working with the “change monsters”: using regret, procrastination and resistance as data, not drama

From anxiety to agency: telling the difference between worthless worry and worth-it worry

Leading through AI turbulence: clear comms, healthy boundaries and designing rest into programmes

Project cadence that lasts: scheduling step-outs so teams return with fresher thinking and energy

Eleanor’s new book, “Another Door Opens: Five Steps for Navigating Change in Life and Work,” is available now in all good bookshops and online. Paul also mentions Eleanor’s live read-along series covering the book chapter by chapter.

Notes

Eleanor’s website - https://www.eleanortweddell.com/

Another Door Opens book - https://www.eleanortweddell.com/another-door-opens

Eleanor’s LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/eleanor-tweddell/

Read-along series sign-up/info

AI psychosis BBC - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c24zdel5j18o

Flesh and Code podcast - https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2025/jul/14/flesh-and-code-is-an-utterly-jaw-dropping-listen-best-podcasts-of-the-week 

Editing and production - Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

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We chat to actor, filmmaker and the author of Both Not Half, Jassa Ahluwalia

We're ending our season with something truly special - a transformative conversation with Jassa Ahluwalia that we know will stay with you long after listening.

Jassa is a British actor, writer, filmmaker and trade unionist, known for roles in Unforgotten, Ripper Street, and Peaky Blinders. Born in Coventry to a white English mother and Punjabi father.

His hashtag #BothNotHalf emerged from a viral video and evolved into a movement exploring mixed identity. His TEDx talk "How Language Shapes Identity" has garnered over 200,000 views, and his BBC One documentary Am I English? won an Asian Media Award in 2022.

In our conversation, Jassa shares how that viral Instagram video led to his powerful book Both Not Half: A Radical New Approach to Mixed Identity. This isn't just about personal identity. It’s about revolutionising how leaders create belonging, moving from allyship to solidarity, and why challenging binary thinking is essential for modern organisations.

Three simple words - "Both Not Half" - that could transform how your organisation thinks about identity, belonging, and true inclusion.

As it's our season finale, we've also packed in Paul and Zoe's holiday reading and podcast recommendations to take with you over the break.

We'll be back at the end of summer with fresh episodes, but this conversation will give you plenty to think about until then!

Show notes

Jassa’s work

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

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We chat to Trevor Gordon, Chief Digital & Technology Officer at Save the Children UK

This week we are chuffed to bits to bring you a brand new episode featuring an insightful chat with the brilliant Trevor Gordon, Chief Digital and Technology Officer at Save the Children UK.

Trevor is an award-winning leader in customer-centric digital technology and transformation and recently returned to the charity sector. Get ready for a fascinating discussion on:

Urgent Transformation in Charities: Trevor shares why non-profits must accelerate their digital, data, and technology adoption to meet today's challenges.

Navigating AI Implementation: How Save the Children UK is swiftly putting AI governance and pragmatic solutions into practice, seeing immediate value.

Strategic Partnerships: The critical role of collaborating with tech vendors and peer organisations to drive significant change.

Building a Resilient Workforce: Creating a culture where people feel empowered and connected to their purpose, is crucial for retaining talent.

Paul and Zoe discuss the latest, eye-opening insights from Microsoft's 2025 Work Trend Index and the Anthropic CEO's bold predictions about AI's impact on jobs. 2025 is the year to get serious.

Show notes

The Microsoft 2025 Work Trend Index

Anthropic's CEO about AI's impact on the job market.

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

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Join Zoe Amar and Paul Thomas on Starts at the Top for a conversation with Steph Wright, Head of the Scottish AI Alliance. In this episode, we delve into the landscape of artificial intelligence, exploring how we can move beyond the hype to build a future where AI is not only innovative but also fundamentally trustworthy, ethical, and inclusive.

Steph brings a diverse perspective to the AI conversation, drawing from a fascinating background that spans astrophysics, the arts, and the third sector. She shares her unique journey and how these varied experiences have shaped her commitment to ensuring AI benefits everyone in society.

In this engaging discussion, Zoe, Paul, and Steph discuss:

How Steph's unconventional career path informs her holistic approach to technology and her unwavering belief in the power of diverse perspectives within the AI field.

The fundamental importance of embedding ethical considerations and inclusivity at the very core of AI development. Steph challenges the notion of these being secondary concerns, highlighting their crucial role in creating truly beneficial technologies.

Why the relentless pursuit of increasingly large and powerful AI models can often overshadow the real-world impact and potential for harm. We discuss the need to shift focus towards tangible value and responsible application.

The often-overlooked environmental and social implications of large language models and AI development, including energy consumption and the ethical sourcing of training data.

The need for more diverse and dissenting voices to shape AI's future and the impactful work of Diverse AI in fostering a more representative and equitable ecosystem within AI.

Advice on where to start, how to prioritise ethical considerations from the outset, and why a deep understanding of your specific challenges should always precede the technological solution.

Zoe and Paul also delve into:

A discussion about the Charity AI Task Force's important response to the UK government's AI action plan, underscoring the essential role of civil society organisations in ensuring that AI works for the benefit of all members of society.

Insights into a newly released global research report examining the accountancy sector's preparedness for AI adoption, highlighting both the opportunities and the potential challenges.

Charity AI Task Force response to government AI action plan

Chartered Accountants Worldwide - report on accountants and AI

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

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We chat with with Melissa Ezechukwu, digital strategist.

In this episode, Zoe and Paul navigate the current whirlwind of tech trends, starting with the viral AI action figure craze that has dominated LinkedIn feeds. They discuss the online phenomenon, questioning its true value and the potential environmental impact of such widespread use of generative AI. Is this a glimpse into AI's potential to solve global issues or just a fleeting moment of digital self-obsession?

Then, they dive into a long-awaited and insightful conversation with Melissa Ezechukwu, a brilliant freelance digital consultant and strategist. With over 15 years of experience in the tech for good space, Mel shares her motivations for working with non-profits and socially conscious businesses, highlighting her passion for fairness and amplifying the voices of the underserved.

Mel recounts her accidental journey into the digital world, a path that many in the industry will find relatable. Her personal story underscores the challenges and the resilience required, particularly for women of colour, in navigating the often-unseen biases within the tech industry.

Zoe and Paul also explore with Mel the key digital trends impacting charities right now, including the double-edged sword of AI, the potential of automation, and the crucial role of data in creating joined-up and personalised user experiences. They question whether the traditional charity website is facing its twilight years and discuss the importance of thoughtful adoption of new technologies.

The conversation tackles the vital issue of diversity and inclusion in tech, particularly in the development and deployment of AI. Mel shares her insights on the dangers of biased datasets and the urgent need for diverse voices in shaping the future of technology, drawing on her experience with organisations like Global Tech Advocates Black Women in Tech.

In this episode, you'll hear about:

The LinkedIn AI action figure trend: playful innovation or environmental concern?

Mel's inspiring journey into the tech for good sector and her passion for social impact.

The ongoing challenges of resource and siloed working within non-profit digital teams.

Key digital trends for charities: AI, automation, and data-driven experiences.

The enduring importance of a user-centred and effective charity website.

The critical need for diversity and inclusion in tech, particularly in AI development, and the potential dangers of bias.

Mel's work with Global Tech Advocates Black Women in Tech and the importance of building supportive networks.

Invaluable advice Mel would give to her younger self navigating the tech industry as a woman of colour.

We hope you find this episode as thought-provoking and valuable as we did.

Thank you for tuning in to Starts at the Top. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a 5-star review on your favourite podcast platform – it truly helps us reach more leaders. Share this episode with a friend or colleague who you think would benefit from hearing these important conversations.

Join Zoe and Paul again in a couple of weeks for another episode of Starts at the Top, where we continue to explore what it takes to lead differently.

Show notes

Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

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In this episode, we speak with Brian Dow, Chief Executive of Mental Health UK and Deputy Chief Executive of Rethink Mental Illness.

Brian shares insights from Mental Health UK’s 2025 Burnout Report highlighting the concerning rise of stress and burnout, particularly among young professionals, and the growing trust deficit between employers and employees.

Key Takeaways:

The Burnout Reality: We explore the alarming statistics on stress and burnout in the UK workplace and the generational differences in how these issues are perceived and managed.

Building Trust: Brian discusses the critical role of trust in fostering a healthy workplace culture and offers practical advice on how leaders can build and maintain that trust, especially with younger employees.

Co-designing the Workplace: We examine the importance of involving employees in shaping workplace policies and practices to create a supportive and inclusive environment.

Leadership and Vulnerability: Brian shares his leadership journey and emphasizes the importance of authenticity, empathy, and modeling positive behavior.

The Power of Fun: We discuss the often-overlooked role of fun in building a positive workplace culture and mitigating the risks of toxic environments.

Managing Wellbeing: Brian offers practical tips for managing well-being during challenging times, emphasizing the importance of facing challenges head-on.

The effects of technology: The episode also touches on the effects of technology and social media on the well-being of younger generations, and how this impacts the workplace.

Inspired by this conversation, Zoe and Paul discuss mental health and the impact of social media and smartphones on children.

Show notes

Mental Health UK’s Burnout Report

Edelman’s Trust Barometer

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

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We chat to Srabani Sen OBE, Founder and CEO of Full Colour

Are DEI efforts under threat? In a world where political winds shift and extreme views gain traction, how do leaders champion inclusion? What’s really happening in organisations on the ground? Join Zoe Amar and Paul Thomas as they dive deep with Srabani Sen, founder and CEO of Full Colour, in this powerful and timely episode.

What you'll discover:

The evolving landscape of DEI: Srabani unpacks the current geopolitical climate and its impact on EDI programs, revealing the resilience of those committed to change.

Beyond the headlines: We explore the lasting effects of recent social unrest and the importance of understanding diverse experiences.

Practical strategies for inclusive leadership: Srabani shares actionable advice for organisations of all sizes, from prioritising initiatives to fostering a culture of psychological safety.

The future of leadership: Learn how inclusive leadership is the key to navigating the accelerating pace of change and meeting the evolving expectations of stakeholders.

In tech news, Zoe and Paul discuss a recent article about how parents are navigating the use of AI with their children, and how it is influencing their own parenting.

Show Notes

Find out more about Full Colour 

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

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We chat with Kwesi Afful, Executive Director of Digital and Marketing at Scope.

Kwesi Afful, Executive Director of Digital and Marketing at Scope, joins us to discuss his bold approach to leadership: building the deletion of his role into the company's business plan.

In this episode of Starts at the Top, we have a cracking chat with Kwesi Afful, the Executive Director of Digital and Marketing at Scope. Kwesi shares his journey from the NHS to the charity sector and highlights the importance of collaboration and partnerships to achieve greater impact.

But here's the real kicker: Kwesi's decided to make his role redundant by April 2026! This bold move challenges traditional notions of leadership and succession planning, raising questions about how we can ensure a smooth transition and continued success for organisations.

Key takeaways from this episode:

Collaboration is king: Kwesi highlights the power of working together to achieve greater impact, both within and across sectors.

Building accessibility into technology: Kwesi discusses the importance of making technology accessible for everyone, including staff and beneficiaries.

The value of cross-sector collaboration: Kwesi shares his experience working with Deloitte to develop an accessible GenAI tool and emphasizes the importance of standing up for your values in these collaborations.

Charities need to work together more: Kwesi calls for greater collaboration among charities to share learning, increase purchasing power, and influence the ethical development of emerging technologies.

The importance of an exit strategy: Kwesi's bold move to plan for the deletion of his role sparks a conversation about succession planning and the need for leaders to consider their exit strategy.

Join us as we explore these topics and more with Kwesi Afful in this inspiring episode of Starts at the Top.

Paul and Zoe discuss what’s happening with AI across the charity sector, including the new AI taskforce and the consultation for the new Charity Digital Code of Practice.

Show notes:

Find out more about Scope

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.