Still Figuring It Out

📋 Episode Summary

In this powerful episode, Marc and Emily sit down with Thu Hue Nguyen, a nonprofit founder, Obama Fellow, and leadership coach based in Hanoi, Vietnam. Together they explore the realities of leading through challenge, the evolution from founder to coach, and why investing in leadership development is essential—especially in resource-scarce sectors.

Thu Hue shares how she transitioned from law into ocean and fisheries work, and how crisis moments taught her that leadership is not innate—it can be learned. With refreshing honesty, she talks about learning to let go, inspire others, and coach teams instead of simply managing them.

This episode is rich with insights for leaders, founders, and coaches who are navigating transition or asking, "Am I doing this right?" Spoiler: if you're asking, you're probably on the right track.

🔑 Key Takeaways

• Leadership isn't born—it's built, often through challenges and reflection.
• Coaching helps leaders shift from control to empowerment.
• Founders often struggle to ask for help—but that's when true leadership growth begins.
• Leadership development is worth investing in, even when resources feel tight.
• Great leaders create space for others, offer clear direction, and stay connected to vision and mission.

🗣 Quote Highlights

"You learn leadership by being in motion—by tripping and standing back up." – Marc "When people leave, we often realize we should've had that conversation a month ago." – Thu Hue "Founders lead down and up. If no one's pulling them up, the system breaks." – Marc

🌍 About the Guest

Thu Hue Nguyen is a Vietnamese social entrepreneur and nonprofit leader dedicated to sustainable development in coastal communities. She has served on numerous boards, supports fisheries and fisherpeople, and is an alum of the prestigious Obama Foundation Fellowship. She's also a certified leadership coach through the Quadrant 3 framework.

🎺 That Music!

Special thanks to Lexi Moreno, Caleb Pitman, and Zoe Czarnecki for the original music. Lexi Moreno: composing, mixing, mastering, guitar; Caleb Pitman: composing, mixing, trumpet; Zoe Czarnecki: bass.

📋 Episode Summary (Long)

In this episode, recorded on their anniversary, Marc and Emily reflect on 30 years of marriage—and use it as a lens to explore the role of story and identity in leadership, coaching, and everyday life.

They revisit their shared love of children's books, read-alouds during 2 a.m. nursing sessions, and the way stories have always been a thread in their family, work, and lives. From The Giving Tree to Anne of Green Gables, storytelling was how they passed on values, built imagination, and created connection.

The conversation moves into coaching and leadership development, exploring why so many people—especially leaders—discredit or downplay their own stories. They share practical insights about helping clients recognize the narratives they repeat (both helpful and limiting), and how stories become mirrors for values and identity.

This episode also includes a reflection on where they've been and where they're going next. From international travel that didn't happen to the possibility of RV adventures ahead, Marc and Emily keep it honest, reflective, and lighthearted. Whether you're celebrating an anniversary of your own or simply thinking about how your story shapes your path, this one is full of warm wisdom.

🔑 Key Takeaways

• Stories shape identity—and that's true for individuals, families, and organizations.
• We often undervalue our own stories because we're too close to them.
• Leadership coaching can help surface patterns and narratives clients may not even realize they're repeating.
• There's power in asking, "Is this story still serving me—or my team?"
• Permission to share your story is sometimes the most transformational part of coaching.

🗣 Quote Highlights

"It's just my life. It's not my identity." – Emily "Story is how we wire the brain—and how we invite others to understand us." – Marc "One of the most important things we do in coaching is help people recognize the stories they're living in." – Emily "We've said yes to almost every adventure." – Emily "I'd rather say I'm sorry than spend a lifetime asking 'what if?'" – Marc

🔗 Resources & Mentions

• The Giving Tree by Shel Silverstein
• The Surprising Gift of Doubt by Marc A. Pitman
• United States Bartenders' Guild (USBG) leadership session
• Books mentioned: The Lord of the Rings, Narnia, A Wrinkle in Time, Anne of Green Gables
• Coaching references: Co-Active Coaching, story-based tools from Quadrant 3 Leadership Coach Certification

In this episode, Marc and Emily welcome their longtime friend and colleague Cherian Koshy—a nonprofit leader, AI entrepreneur, international speaker, and one of the earliest champions of the Quadrant 3 Leadership Coach Certification. They reflect on how their friendship started during early-pandemic Zoom happy hours and evolved into shared coaching, learning, and laughs across years and time zones.

Cherian shares his take on identity, career shifts, and curiosity—from his time pioneering AI use in fundraising to his deep appreciation for the Iowa State Fair (yes, it's serious). He explains why curiosity, clarity, and catalyzing change are the throughlines in his work, and how asking "Why did that happen?"—even when others don't—is part of what makes him tick.

The episode explores the tension between curiosity and worry, how to work with people who don't share the same drive to go deep, and what it means to honor people's journeys without projecting your own. Marc and Emily also ask Cherian what he's still figuring out—his answer? How to live with both hindsight and foresight, for the sake of the people and causes he cares about most.

This is a thoughtful and occasionally hilarious conversation about leadership, legacy, and lifelong learning.

Key Takeaways

• Asking "Why did that happen?" can be the start of major innovation—if you let curiosity lead.
• Leaders don't have to "fix" others—they can offer space, perspective, and permission.
• Clarity is different than simplicity. Clarity makes room for nuance.
• Being curious doesn't mean you have the answers—it means you're not done learning.
• You can take calls from the state fair and still lead like a pro.

Quote Highlights

"I hope I help people connect dots they didn't know were there." – Cherian "Curiosity, clarity, and catalyst—that's the arc of my work." – Cherian "We're still trying to figure out what to do in this moment, with what we know from 30 years ago and 30 years from now." – Cherian "Where we're going, we don't need roads." – Marc (channeling Doc Brown)

Resources & Mentions

• Kindsight – Cherian's current organization
• The Surprising Gift of Doubt by Marc A. Pitman
• The Iowa, Minnesota, and Texas State Fairs
• Quadrant 3 Leadership Coach Certification (Q3LC)
• FedEx logo Easter egg (the hidden arrow)
• Back to the Future references (obviously)

In this episode, Marc and Emily explore their very different relationships with goal setting. What starts as a reflection on abandoned international travel dreams quickly turns into a candid conversation about how goals can serve—or burden—us.

Marc shares his long history of goal-setting (and the ways it still trips him up), including his yearly list of 100 "magnet goals" and the mental gymnastics involved in sticking to goals like "visit one brewery a month." Emily reflects on how her earliest experience with goal setting was punitive and tied to shame—shaping a lifelong tension with traditional goal frameworks.

They talk about neurodivergence, executive function, the false sense of completion that sometimes comes just from planning a goal, and the difference between forward-focused and backward-looking intentions. Along the way, they share practical reframes and offer each other new language for celebrating progress.

If you've ever struggled with how to make goal setting feel more human—or you've wondered whether there's another way to approach productivity—this episode offers a thoughtful, honest, and often funny look at the topic.

Key Takeaways

• Not everyone has the same relationship with goals—some find them motivating, others experience them as shame-triggering.
• "Magnet Goals" can be a creative, idea-based alternative to rigid planning.
• Sharing goals publicly can create a false sense of completion.
• Neurodivergent brains often use emotional weight to create momentum, which can be both helpful and exhausting.
• Setting goals in retrospect (looking at what you did rather than what you planned) may be a more useful approach for some.

Quote Highlights

"I'm still figuring out how to set goals without shame being part of the process." – Marc "Maybe I'll just do goal setting backwards—looking for the goals I didn't know I set." – Emily "Goal setting feels like a dialect to you. For me, it still feels like a foreign language." – Emily "There's a kind of figuring it out that feels like play—and a kind that feels like punishment." – Emily "I've been goal-setting since I was 14. And I'm still surprised how much pressure I put on myself." – Marc

Resources & Mentions

• Magnet Goals Framework
• Enneagram Type 7 (referenced in Marc's reflections on anticipation and follow-through)
• Zoho Campaigns & SpeakerFlow (tools Marc mentions wrangling)
• Shad Helmstetter, Zig Ziglar, Brian Tracy (classic goal-setting cassette tape influences)

Episode Summary (Long)

In this episode, Marc and Emily kick off a new part of Season 2—interviewing some of the people they deeply admire. Before bringing on guests, they decided to run through the questions themselves to see what comes up.

They each share how they'd describe themselves, what three words capture their work, what they love most about what they do, and what they're still figuring out. Topics range from email list management and marketing fatigue to physical health, faith, aging, and what it means to start a new career in your 50s.

There's plenty of laughter and honest reflection, plus some real talk about entrepreneurship, burnout, play, and the weird transitions of midlife. Whether you're in a career shift, navigating new rhythms, or wondering if you'll ever figure out marketing platforms, this conversation will feel familiar.

Key Takeaways

• Even seasoned professionals are still figuring things out—especially when the tools and platforms keep changing.
• Shifting careers later in life comes with new constraints—but also new clarity.
• Connection, creativity, and curiosity keep showing up as core values in both personal and professional work.
• Making space for play (from local meetups to solo hikes) adds resilience to busy lives.
• Retirement isn't the goal—it's more about shaping your next chapter with purpose.

Quote Highlights

"I'm still figuring out Zoho Campaigns... and I've been emailing people since 1999." – Marc "I feel like I've had to make an alliance with my physical body." – Emily "There's a kind of figuring out that feels like frustration—and another kind that feels like play." – Emily "Even though I didn't want to go out, I'm always glad I did." – Marc "If I ever do retire, I'll probably need a strategic plan for what I'll build next." – Emily

Resources & Mentions

• Concord Leadership Group
• Zoho Campaigns
• SpeakerFlow (for tutorials)
• Dr. Sarah Glova (referenced during a goal-setting session)
• Pam Slim's Your Body of Work

Episode Summary

In this episode, Marc and Emily walk through the major events of the last year—from career milestones to health recovery, quiet moments to chaotic ones. They talk about their kids moving across the country and overseas, their experience during a regional hurricane, and the slow return to rhythm after a tough year.

They also share what's changed in their work: growing the Quadrant 3 Leadership Coach Certification, launching Exactly What to Say® Coaching, and figuring out how to support others while still building new systems themselves.

Along the way, they talk about play—Toastmasters, brewing beer, snail mail nights, and coding projects. It's a wide-ranging, real conversation about navigating work and life without pretending to have it all together.

Key Takeaways

• Big life changes sometimes pile up all at once—making space to process them matters.
• Progress doesn't always feel dramatic, but routines (like walking, therapy, or volunteering) help.
• Leading programs means also building trust in the people who will carry them forward.
• Personal and professional wins can come from unexpected places—including hobbies.
• Reflection is easier when you've kept a list—or a podcast.

Quote Highlights

"I want next year to be forward momentum toward longevity and strength." —Emily

"It's not just about what we've built—it's about the coaches we trust to carry it forward." —Marc

"Snail Mail Night at the stationery store is unexpectedly life-giving." —Emily

"From Kindles to Kobos, from reading to coding—it's like digital jigsaw puzzle joy." —Marc

Resources Mentioned

• Exactly What to Say® Coaching https://EWTSCoaching.com/
• Quadrant 3 Leadership Coach Certification https://concordleadershipgroup.com/coaching-certification/
• Pam Slim's book: Your Body of Work
• Toastmasters
• The Warehouse Theater (Greenville, SC)

Episode Summary

In this heartfelt and idea-packed episode, Marc and Emily Pitman reflect on the messy inner journey of leadership. As they prepare to graduate a new cohort of certified coaches from their Quadrant 3 Leadership Coach Certification (Q3LC), they explore the deeper meaning behind their work—and the cost of leadership that relies too much on external validation.

Marc explains the origins of the "Quadrant 3" framework, first developed through years of executive coaching and later popularized in his book The Surprising Gift of Doubt. Emily adds perspective on how growing up as a rule-follower can lead to a leadership crisis when the "rules" suddenly stop working.

They share stories from real leaders, dive into themes like self-trust, stewardship, imposter syndrome, and why coaching isn't just for aspiring professionals—it's for any leader looking to move from burnout to effectiveness. Whether you're an emerging manager or a seasoned consultant, this episode offers clarity, camaraderie, and encouragement.

Key Takeaways

• Many leaders are promoted without being trained—and left to guess the "rules."
• Quadrant 3 is the point where self-doubt either paralyzes you or propels you toward deeper self-trust.
• Coaching isn't just a skillset—it's a mindset shift that can make leadership more effective and human.
• Personal growth often means learning to stop fighting yourself and start working with your wiring.
• Q3LC is for middle managers, retiring execs, consultants between projects, and teams who need to think more critically.

Quote Highlights

"It's like driving with the parking brake on. Quadrant 3 is where leaders finally take it off." —Marc

"I realized I hadn't been working with myself for two weeks—and everything felt harder." —Emily

"Leadership is stewardship. Not just of the mission, but of yourself." —Emily

"Some people realize, 'I don't want to be a coach—and that's a great insight to gain!'" —Marc

"We help people become more clear, so others can make a real decision: yes or no." —Marc

Resources Mentioned

• 📘 The Surprising Gift of Doubt – Marc A. Pitman https://concordleadershipgroup.com/giftofdoubt/
• 👩‍🏫 Q3LC Certification for Individuals https://concordleadershipgroup.com/coaching-certification/
• 🧑‍💼 Q3LC for Teams https://concordleadershipgroup.com/transform-team/
• 💡 Mention of Beatrice Chestnut & Uranio Paes (Enneagram teachers)

Episode Summary

Welcome to Season 2! In this honest and often humorous episode, Marc A. Pitman, CSP, and Emily Pitman, ACC, CPCC, reflect on their journey from the launch of their podcast to now. They talk about the initial tech struggles (hello, 18-minute setup delays), learning new tools like Hindenburg Pro, and the unexpected joy of growing together through the messiness of podcasting.

You'll hear about their commitment to showing up imperfectly, lessons from editing and production, and the evolving way they think about their message, their marriage, and their work in leadership and coaching. Whether you're in the middle of your own creative project or navigating growth in your relationship, this episode will leave you inspired to lean into the messy middle.

🔑 Key Takeaways

• Learning a new tool like Hindenburg Pro requires patience and a long-game mindset
• Letting go of perfection allows more authentic conversations to happen
• Collaboration can deepen connection—especially in marriage and in business
• Being flexible and committed to the process matters more than having it all figured out
• Creativity thrives when you're willing to be messy

🗣 Quote Highlights

"I really had to press into our commitment to be messy." – Emily Pitman "The first thing I learned is that I really like you." – Marc A. Pitman "When we started Season 1, we didn't even have a name for it."

🔗 Mentions & Resources

• Hindenburg Pro – Audio editing software

In this enlightening episode of "We're Still Figuring This Out," hosts Marc and Emily Pitman dive into the intricacies of podcasting, sharing personal insights, and reflections on their journey as podcast creators. They explore the themes of intentional living, relationship dynamics, and the balance between humor and respect. Join them as they navigate the challenges and rewards of creating content that is both meaningful and engaging.

• [00:00] Introduction: The origins of "We're Still Figuring This Out."
• [00:21] Meet Emily Pitman: Leadership coach, creative, and Marc's life partner.
• [02:09] Exploring Marc Pitman: Author, speaker, coach, and Emily's partner in life.
• [03:07] The art of podcast listening and content creation insights.
• [07:07] Discussing audience engagement and the diversity of podcast content.
• [11:38] On finding balance between technical aspects and storytelling in podcasting.
• [14:40] Reflecting on podcast listening habits and preferences.
• [17:41] The significance of closure in podcast series and diversifying podcast voices.

• Intentional Living: Marc and Emily discuss how intentionality plays a crucial role not only in their personal lives but also in the crafting of their podcast.
• Relationship Dynamics: They touch on the importance of balance and respect in their interactions, both personally and professionally.
• Creative Process Insights: The episode provides a behind-the-scenes look at their process of selecting topics, engaging with content, and the considerations involved in producing a podcast that resonates with their audience.
• Diversity in Podcasting: A call to action for recommendations on podcasts hosted by voices from different backgrounds to enrich their listening and learning experience.

• "It's not about the podcast; it's about us." - Marc
• "Finding podcasts for me feels like finding an author where you're going to read all their books." - Emily
• "We can only do so much research off of playing here and making our first 100 messy ones." - Emily

We love hearing from our listeners! If you have suggestions for podcast recommendations, particularly those that bring diverse perspectives, or just want to share your thoughts on today's episode, reach out to us through our social media channels.

"Thank you for joining us on this journey as we continue figuring it out, one episode at a time. Remember, the adventure is in the learning. Until next time, we're still Marc and Emily." - Marc & Emily Pitman

That music!

Thank you to Lexi Moreno and Caleb Pitman composing / mixing / mastering / guitar / trumpet; Zoe bass

In this episode of the Pitman's Coddiwomple podcast, hosts Mark and Emily delve into the intricacies of different timeframes in personal and professional planning. They explore how individuals' perceptions of time can influence their approach to tasks and goals. The discussion touches on the importance of understanding these differences to foster better teamwork and leadership. They also share personal anecdotes and experiences, highlighting the importance of flexibility and mutual understanding in relationships.

• [00:00] - Introduction and setting the 20-minute timer
• [02:00] - Testing new technology and its impact on the recording
• [03:30] - Catching up after a busy month and discussing the unusual January schedule
• [05:00] - Emily's request to join Mark in Albuquerque in March
• [06:00] - Discussion about the National Speakers Association event, Thrive
• [07:00] - Emily's plans to make reservations for their youngest child's travel
• [08:30] - Exploring the concept of different timeframes: long-term, mid-range, and short-term
• [10:00] - The Green Monster analogy for long-term planning
• [12:00] - The importance of discussing personal and business goals before planning
• [14:00] - Strategies for aligning different timeframes within a team
• [16:00] - The role of leadership and the idea of 'making it up' as you go
• [18:00] - Reflecting on the past year and setting intentions for 2024
• [20:00] - Closing remarks and expressing appreciation for the podcast

• Understanding Timeframes: Mark and Emily discuss the importance of recognizing different timeframes (long-term, mid-range, short-term) and how they affect planning and decision-making.
• Leadership Insights: Leadership often involves adapting and 'making it up' rather than following strict rules. Empowering team members to innovate can lead to better outcomes.
• Personal and Professional Balance: Planning personal and professional goals together can help align priorities and foster a supportive environment.
• Flexibility in Planning: Being open to adjustments and having a shared understanding of goals can reduce conflicts and improve teamwork.

• "Let's talk about what we want for our calendars, which was preceded by a kind of, what do we want for our personal life? What do we want for our life together? And then how does our business support that?"
• "Leaders are just not just... there's no just about it. Good leaders are making it up."
• "The plan isn't there to confine you; it's just so you can see when it's going off track."

• National Speakers Association
• Thrive Conference
• Emily's Blog - Insights on leadership and personal development.

This episode emphasizes the value of understanding and integrating different perspectives on time and leadership within both personal and professional contexts. Mark and Emily's candid discussion provides practical insights into managing these dynamics effectively.

That Music!:

Thank you to Lexi Moreno and Caleb Pitman composing / mixing / mastering / guitar / trumpet; Zoe bass