How they organize the chaos of the world, for good and for bad.

Prologue: Ira interviews David Wallechinsky, who wrote a wildly popular book in the 1970s called The Book of Lists, full of trivia and research, gathered into lists like "18 Brains" and "What They Weighed." The book sold millions of copies and had four sequels and a brief spin-off TV show. The list books were like the internet, before the internet. (12 minutes)Act One: John Fecile talks to his brother, Pat, about a list their other brother made before he died. They each have different ideas about what the list means and how they feel about it. (14 minutes)Act 2: A brief visit with Bobby, who keeps a list in his phone of all the dogs in his neighborhood and their names to save him from the awkwardness of not knowing the name of someone’s dog – because people get upset if you don’t remember their dog’s name. (3 minutes)Act Two: Reporter M Gessen talks to Russians living in America and elsewhere about the lists the Russian government has put them on in the last few years. M Gessen is also on one of these lists. Each list has its own complex rules and potential consequences for the people on the lists and for their family members who live in Russia. (28 minutes)

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Host Meg Wolitzer presents perfect mismatches. In “The Man and the Moose” by Ben Loory, performed by Michael Cerveris, a man’s best bud has antlers. In “Red Dirt Don't Wash” by Roger Mais, performed by Brandon J. Dirden, a young man’s courtship is at risk—she doesn’t like his shoes. And a piano lesson is out of tune in “The Piano Teacher’s Pupil” by William Trevor, performed by Kathryn Erbe. 

Meg Wolitzer presents three works about squabbles between people who love one another most.  Jenny Allen’s “In the Car” chronicles the European road trip of a long married couple—and he won’t ask for directions. The reader is Alysia Reiner.  In Jade Jones’ “Your Aunt Thinks She Ramona Africa,” a close family doesn’t know what to do with a nonconformist.  Crystal Dickinson reads.  And in “CobRa,” by Katherine Heiny, the methods of uncluttering guru Marie Kondo almost tidy away a marriage.  Peter Grosz reads.

This story was read as a part of a live show hosted by the great Judy Blume, on the subject of banned books, something she personally knows about. This story hasn't been banned on its own, but many of Roxane Gay's works have, including Not That Bad: Dispatches from Rape Culture and Hunger: A Memoir of My Body. Because these bans are so prevalent, and so pernicious, we wanted to talk about that cultural argument, too. Surprising to absolutely no one, we at Too Hot are free speech boosters; so after the reading, we feature a fascinating talk with Amanda Jones, the author of That Librarian: The Fight Against Book Banning in America, who is on the frontline of this culture war in Louisiana. The story was read by actress Jessica Hecht. Our host is Aparna Nancherla.