Jonathan and Jeff are finally back with a conversation that picks up the threads that were left in the previous episode's topics of Daoist philosophy and technology. Jeff asks Jon if he's seen Spirited Away and tries to make a connection without revealing too much (since as of the time of the recording, Jon had no seen it). They discuss their mutual friend Troy. Digging into their admittedly surface-level understanding of Daoism, they discuss some key themes as they relate to our desire and longing for a worthwhile existence. Jeff suggests there is an empathetic element to Bo Burnham's song about white women on Instagram that is connected to his deeper critique of technology. This leads to a brief inquiry into whether all comedians were nihilists or not -- they suggest that the late great Norm MacDonald did not seem to be. 

They circle back to the anarchic underpinnings of Daoist philosophy. They talk about the differences between morality and virtue (in the Daoist sense). They link the Daoist resistance to social norms to Nietzsche's concept of the Apollonian and the Dionysian. Jeff talks about the difference between Bacchus as exhuberance and fecundity (at least as he appears in the Narnian Universe) and Dionysius as destruction and death drive (at least as he appears in Nietzsche). Jon and Jeff bring up (and disagree about) the difference between an understanding of the Way as a kind of origin versus an understanding of it as a kind of ideal. Jeff reflects on the relation of anxiety and Lacanian psychoanalytical thought and the Daoist concept of the uncarved block. 

During the second half, they again debate whether the Way is about returning to an originary state of non-striving or whether it is about finding what is nourishing. They discuss the difference between dopamine hits (like if Troy likes one of Jeff's tweets) and true satisfaction or contentment. They return to the topic of technology and its positioning ideologically as a mechanism for freeing us from toil. They talk about the similarities and differences between Daoist and Christian thought. Jon talks about the disgusting way Dale Carnegie's book about winning friends has been used in the business world. Jeff asks about whether evolutionary thought is working to leave certain Victorian-era metaphors behind, and Jon talks about the role of reciprocity in nature and its relationship to the idea of contentment. Jeff finishes with the story of how he recently acquired a stack of books on eastern philosophy (and some other stuff).

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Show Notes

Tao Te Ching, by Lao Tzu

Taoism: The Parting of the Way, by Holmes Welch Jr.

Spirited Away (Film)

"White Woman's Instagram" by Bo Burnham

Mythos, by Stephen Fry

The Birth of Tragedy, by Friedrich Nietzsche

Prince Caspian, by C.S. Lewis

Happiness is Not a Fish You Can Catch, by Our Lady Peace

How to Win Friends and Influence People, by Dale Carnegie

10,000 Dreams Interpreted

Music 

Theme Music: "What u Thinkin? (Instrumental)" by Wataboi on Pixabay 

Intermission Music: "Lazy Morning" by Tim Moor on Pixabay

In this final episode of Season 01, Jonathan and Jeff wrap things up by establishing their definitive positions on all of the topics discussed over the previous 14 episodes. Just kidding! Instead, they reflect on what they discussed, what were the questions raised, and what contributed to the conversational paths they meandered along. They touch on the value of paying kids to do huge, non-utilitarian projects that they express interest in. They discuss the challenge of coming up with definitions and why a good definition can be so satisfying -- and how definitions can still carry the weight of our implicit biases. They talk about how exciting and interesting "big idea" books can be, and how they are probably also only 6% right (that number was of course mathematically deduced and can be wholly relied upon). They ask whether the words "saliva" and "salience" have a common root. (Postscript: They don't!). Jonathan introduces the important concept of "hard pants" -- a term which Jeff has used in work meetings since the recording of this episode.

During the second half of the show, they talk about the sorts of topics that they might be interested in discussing during Season 02. Some of the topics mentioned include: technology, myth and symbolism, sci-fi and fantasy, culture-making, and The Two Popes. Prior to reviewing these, Jon raises a few remaining questions he has about capitalism. This leads to a discussion about the centrality of "trust" to so many topics. Jeff and Jon talk about the subject of "culture" and what topics might come up under that category -- including sub-culture, media and entertainment, workplace culture, etc. Jeff goes on a slight rant about the impact of the winds of reality upon the boundaries of Christendom and how this is a good thing that has led to new possibilities. And they finish with some exploration of whether they have received any emails over the course of the season. (The jury is still out on this question.)

Speaking of which: if you would like to send us a note, email us at [email protected]. See you next season!

Show Notes:

Music Notes:

Theme Music: "What u Thinkin? (Instrumental)" by Wataboi on Pixabay

Intermission Music: "Lazy Morning" Tim Moor on Pixabay

Jonathan and Jeff continue their discussion about the name of this very podcast by talking about the idea of the Subject, but not before trying to discern their apostolic succession to famous philosophers of the past. (It is a bit of a stretch, actually.) But once they get back on to that topic, they explore where philosophy gets the necessary kick in its pants to dig into the subject of the Subject, especially via the Masters of Suspicion (Marx, Freud, and Nietzsche). (The discussion of this term raises questions surrounding Paul Ricoeur's idea of the hermeneutics of suspicion vs the hermeneutics of generosity).

In the second half of the podcast, Jeff and Jonathan start to dig into some of Julia Kristeva's contributions to the Subject along with other psychoanalytical concepts, such as "the mirror stage," Lacan's typology of the Imaginary, the Symbolic, and the Real, Kristeva's idea of "the semiotic" and "the symbolic," and ultimately "the subject of enunciation" (that tries to explain and position itself in the world symbolically) and "the subject-in-process" (that is constantly being constrained and unable to express itself in its entirety clearly in language). They likely overly (and unfairly) merge Lacan's and Kristeva's thought, particularly with regards to the Real. As they slow their roll on this, though, they begin to ask whether it's absolutely necessary for the Real to be horrific, or whether the Real could be experienced as a miracle and how the Real might be a sign of hope. (Although they do not discuss Kristeva's idea of "abjection".)

Jeff and Jonathan also mull the following competition for listeners: Write a short story of 500 words or less that describes what happens when Martin Heidegger, Owen Barfield, and Jean-Paul Sartre look at a tree. (Hint: One of them pukes). Send your entries along (as well as any questions, comments, rants) to [email protected].

Show Notes:

Music Notes:

Theme Music: "What u Thinkin? (Instrumental)" by Wataboi on Pixabay

Intermission Music: "Lazy Morning" Tim Moor on Pixabay

In this final episode discussing Derek DelGaudio's In and Of Itself, Jonathan and Jeff talk about the difference between living to achieve something and living to be consistent, what it might mean to find deep satisfaction in life, and if living in the here-and-now and living an eternal kind of life are the same thing. They also talk about what shapes and makes us, and if stories and careful attention to the world, ourselves and what is true can transform and redeem our hurts and our failings.

The conversation ranges over several related (and some unrelated) issues, using DelGaudio's magic show as a springboard, including discussions on the internet, big-tech's attention-grabbing algorithms, whether we can build a better internet, whether we could have avoided the current one, and whether our future AI overlords will be friendly or not (and if either option is that great). Finally, they discuss how we relate to and know the world in such limited ways. Conversation on the wonder of all that is experienced and not yet fully known and also the possibility of only being aware of radically local comedians also crops up during this episode.

Show Notes:

Music:

Theme Music: "What u Thinkin? (Instrumental)" by Wataboi on Pixabay

Intermission Music: "Lazy Morning" by Tim Moor on Pixabay

Jonathan and Jeff continue their conversation on the philosophical magic show, Derek DelGaudio's In & Of Itself -- and this time they spend more than five minutes talking about it! While this episode doesn't contain spoilers from the show, we would highly recommend watching it first if you are able! This time around, they spend a lot more time talking about the show itself. They talk about Jeff's disappointment with magic shows in general and what that feeling might signal. Does it signal a deep desire to know the "in and of itself" of reality? What does it mean to want a deeper reality than the reality that you are stuck with? They talk about the difference between tricks versus magic, the love of fantasy novels (any Dragonlance fans out there still?), Jonathan's brilliant Junior High ping pong career, C.S. Lewis's friend Charles Williams' interest in real magic, Rosicrucians, miracles and magic and the unexplainable givenness of reality, and the Four Horsemen of the New Atheist Apocalypse (but mostly just Daniel Dennett and only briefly). Topics that are raised in DelGaudio's show trigger conversations about what it means to be part of a place and how this creates identity, what it means to "be told who you are" by others now vs. historically, and more. Jeff also talks about American Idol in a way that suggests he doesn't realize it hasn't been a current reference for several years.

Warning that there may be some small, brief spoilers about The Prestige, which is a movie that came out 15 years ago, so hopefully you've already seen it.

Show Notes:

Music:

Theme Music: "What u Thinkin? (Instrumental)" by Wataboi on Pixabay

Intermission Music: "Lazy Morning" by Tim Moor on Pixabay