Pepe talks with Ping Lieu who spent 13 years in prison for discussing a potential crime he never actually carried out. This is an older but unreleased episode Pepe recorded while he was fighting his own case and preparing to enter prison himself.

• What led Ping to serve 13 years in prison
• What it was like for Ping to receive his sentence
• The hardest moment of Ping's life & a moment of relief
• Crying & the emotional tension it let loose
• The different security levels in prison
• The hardest aspect of being in prison
• Useful skills learned in prison
• Benefits & challenges of being Asian in prison
• What Ping would've done differently in prison
• Struggles after release
• What Ping started doing after release
• Advice for people potentially facing incarceration

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