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Episode 21: What Most Career Coaches Get WRONG About Career Breaks
This episode is a rant with purpose. Katrina McGhee is back on the mic to call out the outdated, fear-driven, and downright misguided advice often handed out by traditional career coaches when it comes to taking a career break.
From staying “relevant” to upskilling nonstop and obsessing over your resume during a break — Katrina and James tear into these myths and explain why it’s time to re-center your break around YOU, not your job.
If you’ve ever felt guilty for wanting time off, or unsure how to “justify” your break, this episode is the permission slip and pep talk you didn’t know you needed.
🧠 Key Takeaways
You’re not taking a break to become a better cog in the machine — you’re taking it to live a better life.
Let go of productivity guilt and give yourself permission to truly disconnect.
Reframing your career break as a life investment shifts the whole narrative.
Not every moment of your break needs to serve your next job — it should serve you.
🎧 In This Episode
Why career coaches often give bad advice about career breaks
The problem with “staying connected to your network” during time off
Why obsessing over your resume and professional development defeats the purpose of a break
The myth of “falling behind” in your industry — and what to focus on instead
How to deal with unsolicited job offers or pressure from your LinkedIn network
The power of real rest, reflection, and self-guided growth
Why you don’t need to justify your break to anyone
⏱️ Timestamps
00:00 – Intro: Welcome to the Rant Episode
James and Katrina set the tone for today’s discussion—myth-busting common (and harmful) career break advice.
01:28 – The Truth About “Staying Connected” to Your Network
Why trying to stay visible on LinkedIn during your break is a mistake—and what to do instead.
04:56 – Dealing with Job Offers and Messages While on Break
How to handle messages from recruiters or coworkers while you’re trying to disconnect.
07:05 – The “Stay Up to Date” Trap
Why obsessing over your industry during your break defeats the purpose—and how to reframe what “falling behind” really means.
10:07 – The Pressure to Upskill Immediately
Katrina unpacks why you don’t need to jump into courses or certifications right away—and how to tell if self-improvement is coming from fear or curiosity.
14:37 – Resume Justification is Overrated
Stop designing your break for your future boss—what to do instead of chasing resume-worthy activities.
17:30 – Final Thoughts: Center Yourself, Not Your Job
Katrina’s closing message about why you deserve a break centered on you—not productivity, optics, or career milestones.
19:53 – BreakSpace Community Call-Out
Find your people! Katrina introduces BreakSpace, her career break coaching and community platform.
🔔 Subscribe for more deep dives into career growth, work-life balance, and mental resilience.
🎧 Listen now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and every podcast app!
📩 Got a story about your own career break journey? DM us or leave a review—we’d love to hear from you!
If you have any questions, please feel free to get in touch today to start your journey!
Book a coaching session - https://kmcgheecoaching.as.me/schedule.php
Join the waitlist for the BreakSpace community - www.gobreakspace.com
Purchase Taking a Career Break for Dummies - https://www.kmcgheecoaching.com/book
Email - [email protected]
🎙️ Episode 20 – How to Talk About Your Career Break
📘 Hosted by James Hammond & Katrina McGhee, Career Break and Sabbatical Coach
Show Summary:
In this episode, Katrina McGhee, author of Taking a Career Break for Dummies and co-founder of BreakSpace, joins host James Hammond to dive deep into a challenge many career breakers face—how to talk about your career break confidently and authentically. Whether you're planning a break, currently on one, or returning to the workforce, this episode explores powerful mindset shifts and strategies to overcome judgment, doubt, and social pressure.
From pre-break anxiety and awkward conversations to managing "What’s next?" questions during the break, Katrina shares real-world tips and a proven 4-step framework for navigating difficult conversations. Tune in for empowering advice that helps you own your decision and find the right words to articulate your break with clarity and pride.
💡 Key Takeaways & Topics Covered:
How to prepare for conversations before, during, and after a career break
Why career breaks feel unconventional—and why that’s okay
The psychology behind fear of judgment and self-doubt
What to do when people give unsolicited advice about job searching
Using intentional language to own your decision
The power of a “purpose statement” and identifying your themes
How to answer “What’s next for you?” when you don’t have all the answers
Reframing curiosity as opportunity, not judgment
Building inner confidence before external conversations
🧠 Katrina’s 4-Step Framework to Navigate Career Break Conversations:
Build your confidence and conviction – Understand why you took the break and its benefits.
Own your decision – Speak with intention, not apology.
Craft your go-to statement – Use your break's purpose to explain your choice clearly.
Avoid waiting for validation – Surround yourself with supportive communities like BreakSpace.
⏱️ Timestamps:
00:00 – Intro to the show and topic
01:30 – Why talking about your career break is so challenging
03:50 – Common fears: judgment, shame, and uncertainty
05:40 – Navigating pushback before you start your break
09:30 – What to say when people ask, “What do you do?”
11:00 – Dealing with unsolicited advice and job suggestions
13:30 – How people’s reactions reflect their own limiting beliefs
15:00 – Katrina’s 4-step framework for confidently talking about your break
18:50 – Why you don’t need external validation
20:40 – Final thoughts and mindset reminders
If you have any questions, please feel free to get in touch today to start your journey!
Book a coaching session - https://kmcgheecoaching.as.me/schedule.php
Join the waitlist for the BreakSpace community - www.gobreakspace.com
Purchase Taking a Career Break for Dummies - https://www.kmcgheecoaching.com/book
Email - [email protected]
Thanks for listening!
🎙️ Episode 19 – Letting Go of Career Break Expectations: Why 3 Months Is the Magic Number
What happens when your career break doesn’t go as planned?
You take time off expecting to feel restored, get fit, maybe write that book, or finally tick off a bucket list goal… but a few months in, you’re still exhausted, overwhelmed, or nowhere near those expectations. In this episode, James sits down with career break coach Katrina McGhee to unpack the emotional rollercoaster of taking time off — and why letting go of rigid expectations is the key to actually enjoying and growing from the experience.
From navigating burnout recovery to embracing mid-break pivots, Katrina shares real stories and strategies from her coaching clients who’ve hit that classic three-month wall. Whether you’ve taken a sabbatical, a travel break, or a professional pause, this episode dives deep into what it really looks like to redefine productivity, honor your energy, and recalibrate your plans when reality doesn’t match the dream.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
Why the three-month mark is a powerful turning point during a break
The common traps people fall into (like turning your break into another job!)
How to recalibrate when things don’t go to plan
The difference between vacation and a real career break
Why changing your timeline—or your goals—isn’t failure, it’s growth
How to handle guilt when your productivity doesn’t match your expectations
Episode Timestamps
00:00 – Intro & Welcome
03:50 – The Link Between Exercise, Energy, and Productivity
05:15 – Setting the Stage: What This Episode is About
06:40 – The 3 Key Tension Points of a Career Break
08:00 – The 3-Month Magic Mark
10:00 – How Long Should a Break Be?
11:30 – The Danger of “Productivity Pressure” During a Break
13:40 – Changing the Plan is Not Failing
15:30 – Rewriting Your Expectations Midway Through
17:20 – Changing Your Break Timeline
19:30 – Unrealistic Expectations Going In
20:45 – Final Thoughts & A Golden Rule
21:46 – Outro & BreakSpace Invitation
✨ Whether you’re burned out, plotting a pivot, or simply curious about extended time off, this episode is a must-listen.
📣 “Don’t turn your break into a job!” — Learn what Katrina really means by this and how to avoid that major mistake.
🔗 Resources & Links:
Learn more about Katrina’s work and BreakSpace: www.gobreakspace.com
Listen to our past episode on navigating the ups and downs of a break: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/taking-a-career-break-with-katrina-mcghee/id1772602758?i=1000703812606
🔔 Subscribe for more deep dives into career growth, work-life balance, and mental resilience.
🎧 Listen now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and every podcast app!
📩 Got a story about your own career break journey? DM us or leave a review—we’d love to hear from you!
Book a coaching session - https://kmcgheecoaching.as.me/schedule.php
Purchase Taking a Career Break for Dummies - https://www.kmcgheecoaching.com/book
Email - [email protected]
Episode 18 - How to navigate the ups and downs of a career break
In this episode, career break coach Katrina McGhee and host James Hammond explore the complex journey of taking a career break. From the exhilarating highs of newfound freedom to the unexpected lows of self-doubt and life’s curveballs, they unpack it all. Katrina shares strategies to navigate these phases effectively, ensuring your break becomes a transformative experience rather than a source of frustration.
Tune in to discover actionable tips, including Katrina’s Plan A and Plan B framework, the value of self-acceptance, and how to confront the parts of yourself that may be holding you back. Whether you're contemplating a break, currently on one, or returning from one, this episode is packed with insights to guide you through every stage.
What You’ll Learn:
The Emotional Landscape of a Career Break
Understanding the "mountain and valley" metaphor: The transition from a high-achieving lifestyle to the liminal space of self-discovery.
Why career breaks aren’t all sunshine and rainbows—and why that’s okay.
Practical Strategies for Navigating Challenges:
Plan A vs. Plan B Days: Structuring your time to honor both high-energy and low-energy days.
Meeting Yourself Where You Are: Tips for practicing self-acceptance during periods of rest or uncertainty.
Dealing with Setbacks:
Coping with unexpected challenges like grief, financial stress, or health crises during a break.
Recognising and addressing self-sabotaging behaviours, including over-scheduling or excessive people-pleasing.
Powerful Mindset Shifts:
Understanding “parts work” and using it to manage internal conflicts.
Why slowing down and embracing quiet moments can lead to personal breakthroughs.
Reconnecting with Purpose:
Avoiding distractions and busywork that detract from the meaningful aspects of your break.
Realigning your actions with the life and person you aspire to be.
Timestamps:
00:00 - Intro and episode overview
00:39 - Career breaks and the “first mountain, second mountain” metaphor
03:27 - Emotional highs and lows of breaks
05:23 - Burnout recovery isn’t linear
09:04 - Challenges like grief, health, and finances
11:00 - Plan A vs. Plan B days framework
14:45 - The journey of self-acceptance
18:40 - Parts work and managing internal conflicts
21:59 - Stop hiding and avoiding discomfort
24:51 - Aligned choices: hard yeses vs. easy nos
26:23 - Closing thoughts and next episode preview
26:52 - Call to action: Join BreakSpace
Key Quotes:
“Life doesn’t have rules; it’s always going to ‘life.’ Your career break isn’t exempt from that.” – Katrina McGhee
“A break removes layers of distraction and validation, giving you space to meet yourself as you are today.” – Katrina McGhee
“Stop hiding behind busywork and meet the challenge of being with yourself.” – James Hammond
Resources Mentioned:
BreakSpace Community: A supportive hub for career breakers and sabbatical takers. Visit BreakSpaceCrew.com.
Katrina’s Book: Taking a Career Break for Dummies.
Join the Conversation:
Have you experienced the ups and downs of a career break? Share your thoughts and questions on social media with #CareerBreakJourney.
This is a must-listen for anyone seeking clarity, rest, or a fresh start! Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast wherever you tune in.
🔔 Subscribe for more deep dives into career growth, work-life balance, and mental resilience.
🎧 Listen now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and every podcast app!
📩 Got a story about your own career break journey? DM us or leave a review—we’d love to hear from you!
If you have any questions, please feel free to get in touch today to start your journey!
Book a coaching session - https://kmcgheecoaching.as.me/schedule.php
Join the waitlist for the BreakSpace community - www.gobreakspace.com
Purchase Taking a Career Break for Dummies - https://www.kmcgheecoaching.com/book
Email - [email protected]
🎙 Episode 17: Is It Time for a Second Career Break? Yes, and Here's Why
Description:
You took the leap once—and now you're thinking about doing it again. In this episode, host James Hammond and career break coach Katrina McGhee dive into the powerful (and totally normal) desire to take a second career break. Whether you're feeling burned out again, misaligned in your career path, or simply craving a deeper life reset, this episode gives you full permission to pause—again.
Katrina shares personal stories and client experiences that reveal why one sabbatical is often just the beginning of a more intentional, balanced, and fulfilling life. Plus, we unpack the difference between short vs. long breaks, how the second break hits differently, and how to navigate the logistics (and self-doubt) that come with doing it all over again.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
Why it’s totally normal to crave a second career break
Signs it might be time to take another sabbatical
How to make a second break more intentional and aligned
What Katrina’s second break taught her that the first didn’t
Why breaks are a lifelong tool, not a one-time fix
Tips for navigating finances, mindset, and purpose when you’ve already taken a break before
Perfect For You If You’re…
✅ Feeling unfulfilled after your first return to work
✅ Wondering if it’s “crazy” to hit pause again
✅ Looking to reclaim your time, energy, and purpose
✅ Curious how to build a break-friendly lifestyle
✅ Craving more travel, rest, or clarity in your life or business
📚 Resources Mentioned:
Taking a Career Break for Dummies by Katrina McGhee
Previous Episode: The Truth About Self-Awareness on Career Breaks
James sharing his stories from his Winging It Travel Podcast and taking multiple career breaks
💬 Join the Conversation:
Have you taken a second career break—or are you thinking about it? DM us or tag us @TakingACareerBreak to share your story.
⏱️ Timestamps
00:00 – Welcome + Why We’re Talking Second Career Breaks
James and Katrina introduce the episode and share why the topic of a second career break is more common (and necessary) than people think.
01:25 – What Happens After Your First Career Break
Katrina explains how clients often return for another break—and why it's not just burnout, but a deeper desire for alignment.
03:10 – The Fear of Wanting Another Break
Is it “crazy” to want a second sabbatical before your first one even ends? Katrina shares why this is normal and how she addresses it in her book.
04:50 – Different Kinds of Second Breaks
From quick resets to total life pivots—how second breaks can look very different from the first.
06:52 – Katrina’s Two Breaks: A Personal Comparison
She shares how her meticulously planned first break and her spontaneous second one each brought unique lessons and healing.
10:30 – After the Second Break: What Changed
Katrina reflects on her mindset after returning from break #2 and how it reshaped her life and business.
13:27 – How to Know If It’s Time for Another Break
What signs to look for when your life or career feels misaligned—even after a previous pause.
14:28 – Building a Life That Welcomes Breaks
Why breaks aren’t one-time events, and how to integrate rest, healing, and freedom into your long-term lifestyle.
15:02 – Parting Advice: Normalize the Second Break
Final words of encouragement: You’re not broken. You’re evolving—and it’s okay to pause as often as you need to.
If you have any questions, please feel free to get in touch today to start your journey!
Book a coaching session - https://kmcgheecoaching.as.me/schedule.php
Join the waitlist for the BreakSpace community - https://www.beyondabreak.com/breakspace
Purchase Taking a Career Break for Dummies - https://www.kmcgheecoaching.com/book
Email - [email protected]
Are you stuck in grind culture, pushing through exhaustion, and ignoring the signs that your pain tolerance might be holding you back from taking a much-needed career break? Many professionals pride themselves on resilience, endurance, and mental toughness, but when does persistence turn into burnout? If you've ever felt guilty about stepping away from work or worried about how a career sabbatical could impact your future, this episode is for you.
We’re diving into the psychology of pain tolerance and career decisions, exploring why high achievers often struggle with taking breaks, even when their physical, emotional, and mental health are at risk.
We’ll break down:
✅ How pain tolerance, resilience, and workaholism are interconnected
✅ The hidden dangers of pushing through exhaustion and ignoring burnout
✅ Why some people feel guilty about taking a sabbatical or career pause
✅ The impact of mental toughness on work-life balance and long-term success
✅ Real-life stories of professionals who took a career break and came back stronger
✅ Practical steps to assess your limits and know when it’s time to step back
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Career Breaks
02:49 Understanding Pain Tolerance
06:14 The Importance of Self-Awareness
09:02 The Consequences of High Pain Tolerance
11:52 Personal Stories of Pain Tolerance
15:09 Strategies for Building Self-Awareness
18:01 The Role of Breaks in Health and Well-being
Whether you’re considering a career transition, gap year, job hiatus, or full career reset, understanding your pain threshold and mindset is key to making healthy career decisions. If you’ve been hesitating to take time off, this conversation will help you reframe career breaks as a power move, not a setback.
🔔 Subscribe for more deep dives into career growth, work-life balance, and mental resilience.
🎧 Listen now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and every podcast app!
📩 Got a story about your own career break journey? DM us or leave a review—we’d love to hear from you!
If you have any questions, please feel free to get in touch today to start your journey!
Book a coaching session - https://kmcgheecoaching.as.me/schedule.php
Join the waitlist for the BreakSpace community - https://www.beyondabreak.com/breakspace
Purchase Taking a Career Break for Dummies - https://www.kmcgheecoaching.com/book
Email - [email protected]
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
🎙️ Featuring: Katrina McGhee & James Hammond
Is taking a break from work a selfish act, or is it actually one of the best things you can do for yourself—and those around you? In this episode, career break coach Katrina McGhee challenges the guilt and stigma surrounding sabbaticals. We dive into why so many professionals struggle with the idea of stepping away, how career breaks can actually strengthen relationships, and why prioritizing your well-being isn’t selfish—it’s necessary.
🔥 In This Episode, We Discuss:
✔️ Why people feel guilty about taking career breaks
✔️ How taking time off can improve your relationships, career, and mental health
✔️ The surprising role partners and families play in career break decisions
✔️ Real stories of people who took sabbaticals—and how it changed their lives
✔️ The mindset shift you need to stop feeling guilty about rest
Timestamps
00:00 Introduction
00:41 The Guilt Around Taking a Career Break
02:06 Reframing Selfishness: The Royal Inheritance Analogy
04:51 Real-Life Testimonial: The Client Who Changed His Family's Life
06:47 Gender Dynamics in Career Breaks
11:18 The Ripple Effect of a Career Break
12:36 Final Thoughts: Career Breaks Are a Gift, Not a Luxury
💡 Key Takeaway: Taking care of yourself doesn’t just benefit you—it creates a ripple effect that positively impacts your family, career, and community.
🎧 Listen now and start thinking differently about work, rest, and balance!
🔗 Resources & Links:
👉 Follow Katrina McGhee – Career Break Coach
👉 Join the BreakSpace Community – A support network for people planning sabbaticals
👉 Connect with James Hammond – Podcast Host
📢 Loved this episode? Share it with a friend who needs to hear this! Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a review.
If you have any questions, please feel free to get in touch today to start your journey!
Book a coaching session - https://kmcgheecoaching.as.me/schedule.php
Join the waitlist for the BreakSpace community - https://www.beyondabreak.com/breakspace
Purchase Taking a Career Break for Dummies - https://www.kmcgheecoaching.com/book
Email - [email protected]
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Ever dreamed of taking a career break but don’t know how to afford it? In this episode, we’re diving into smart money-saving strategies to help you fund your career break, sabbatical, or long-term travel—without financial stress.
Katrina McGhee, a career break coach, shares how she saved $40,000 in just 18 months and the exact steps you can follow to do the same. Whether you’re looking to travel the world, take a mental health break, or pivot careers, these proven budgeting and saving tips will set you up for success.
✅ How to track your spending and uncover hidden money leaks
✅ The power of budgeting with intention to maximize savings
✅ Where to put your money – high-yield savings accounts & lump sum strategies
✅ The importance of an exploration fund to stay motivated while saving
✅ How to shift from saving mode to actually taking your break
💡 Plus, Katrina shares how half of her savings came from lump sums—and how you can do it too!
Timestamps
🔹 00:00 – Introduction to the episode and guest, Katrina McGhee
🔹 00:47 – Overview: Saving $40,000 in 18 months for a career break
🔹 02:14 – Step 1: Track Your Spending – Why awareness is key
🔹 04:10 – The mindset shift: Being honest about spending habits
🔹 06:06 – Step 2: Budget & Align Your Spending – Setting realistic financial goals
🔹 08:05 – Step 3: Save Lump Sums – How bonuses, refunds & windfalls accelerate savings
🔹 09:08 – The importance of putting money away immediately
🔹 10:44 – Step 4: Create an Exploration Fund – Avoiding burnout while saving
🔹 13:11 – Why an exploration fund makes life more enjoyable
🔹 14:28 – Step 5: Celebrate Your Progress – The importance of tracking milestones
🔹 16:30 – Step 6: Give Yourself Permission to Spend on Joy & Wellbeing
🔹 18:09 – Episode wrap-up and key takeaways
If you have any questions, please feel free to get in touch today to start your journey!
Book a coaching session - https://kmcgheecoaching.as.me/schedule.php
Join the waitlist for the BreakSpace community - https://www.beyondabreak.com/breakspace
Purchase Taking a Career Break for Dummies - https://www.kmcgheecoaching.com/book
Email - [email protected]
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
🚀 Episode 13: Is Taking a Break a Privilege? 🚀
In this thought-provoking episode, James Hammond and Katrina McGhee dive deep into the debate around career breaks. Is stepping away from work truly a privilege, or is it something anyone can achieve with the right mindset and planning?
🎙 In This Episode, We Discuss:
✅ Why career breaks are often seen as an exclusive luxury
✅ The unintended consequences of calling breaks an “extreme privilege”
✅ How Katrina saved for her sabbatical—even with debt and a modest salary
✅ Strategies to take a break, even with financial or family responsibilities
✅ The mindset shift needed to make a career break possible
⏳ Timestamps:
00:00 – Introduction: James and Katrina introduce the topic: Is taking a break really a privilege?
01:13 – The Privilege Myth: Breaking down the idea that only the wealthy can take career breaks.
03:47 – The Power of Mindset: How changing your perspective can make a break possible.
04:45 – Why You Should Stop Disclaimering Career Breaks: How calling them an “extreme privilege” discourages others.
06:38 – Taking a Break as a Radical Act: Why stepping away from work challenges societal norms.
08:02 – The "Trust Fund" Assumption: Katrina shares how people assumed she had a trust fund to afford her break.
10:41 – The Numbers Don’t Lie: How little time a career break actually takes in a lifetime of work.
14:42 – The Importance of Resourcefulness: How Katrina saved money despite debt and financial challenges.
16:37 – The Role of Patience: Why planning and delayed gratification are key.
18:33 – Final Thoughts: Encouragement to take a break without disclaimers and give yourself credit.
💡 If you've ever dreamed of taking a sabbatical but thought, "I could never afford that," this episode is for you!
🔗 Join the Conversation:
Tag @KatrinaMcGhee on LinkedIn with your career break announcement—but skip the disclaimers!
👉 Like, subscribe, and share this episode to inspire others to rethink what’s possible!
If you have any questions, please feel free to get in touch today to start your journey!
Book a coaching session - https://kmcgheecoaching.as.me/schedule.php
Join the waitlist for the BreakSpace community - https://www.beyondabreak.com/breakspace
Purchase Taking a Career Break for Dummies - https://www.kmcgheecoaching.com/book
Email - [email protected]
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Think you’re on a break? Think again! In this episode, Katrina McGhee breaks down the five biggest signs that your career break might not be a real break at all. If you're still job searching, networking, or overscheduling your days—chances are, you’re on a fake break. Don’t let fear, guilt, or bad habits keep you from the rest and reset you truly need!
✅ 5 signs you’re on a fake break (and how to fix them!)
✅ Why job hunting too soon ruins your break
✅ The hidden dangers of overscheduling your time off
✅ How to set boundaries with work, networking, and obligations
✅ The secret to designing a break that actually works
⏳ 00:00 - Welcome & Introduction
⏳ 02:37 - What is a "fake break"?
⏳ 04:26 - Sign #1: Job searching too soon
⏳ 06:57 - Sign #2: Staying plugged into networking & LinkedIn
⏳ 09:30 - Sign #3: Overscheduling yourself
⏳ 12:22 - Sign #4: Filling your time with errands & chores
⏳ 14:44 - Sign #5: Designing a break for social media instead of yourself
⏳ 22:49 - How to fix a fake break & create a real one
⏳ 29:32 - Final thoughts & takeaways
If you have any questions, please feel free to get in touch today to start your journey!
Book a coaching session - https://kmcgheecoaching.as.me/schedule.php
Join the waitlist for the BreakSpace community - https://www.beyondabreak.com/breakspace
Purchase Taking a Career Break for Dummies - https://www.kmcgheecoaching.com/book
Email - [email protected]
🚀 Next Episode: Episode 13 – Is it a privilege to take a career break?
💬 Join the Conversation! Got career break questions or success stories? Please drop a comment or send us a message or email!
🎧 Subscribe & Leave a Review – If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to follow us and share with a friend!
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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