Talent Report+THRIVE

By MRA - The Management AssociationBusiness Management Non-Profit

Talent Report+THRIVE episodes

May 17, 2023 2023 HR Conference Highlights
Description:
There has never been a more crucial time to focus your efforts on elevating the work experience of your employees. MRA's 2023 HR Conference Highlights episode will provide you with tangible ways to help you raise the bar throughout the entire employee life cycle, from recruitment to retention, while building and solidifying employee loyalty along the way. And it’s not just about the employees, but it’s also time to elevate you—the HR professional!
These conference highlights will provide you with a space to grow your skills and address the mental health load that HR teams continue to shoulder. Join us for an experience that will elevate YOU and your employees.
Resources:
Register for Minnesota HR Conference!
MRA Membership
About MRA
Let's Connect:
Guest Bio - Paula Davis (Stress & Resilience Institute)
Guest Bio - Josh Miller (Project50)
Guest Bio - Jamie Jackson (Humorous Resources)
Guest Bio - Tricia Shields (Naviant)
Guest Bio - Shawn Gulyas (humanworks8)
Host Bio - Sophie Boler
Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler
Transcript:
Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word.
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:21:03
Unknown
Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive, your go to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA, the Management Association looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here.
00:00:21:04 - 00:00:40:21
Unknown
Now it's time to thrive. Hey, everybody. Thanks for tuning in to 30 minute Thrive today. This week we kind of have a special edition episode as Courtney Lamers is going to be our host today, highlighting our 2023 HR conference. So thanks for being the host for today, Courtney. Thanks for trusting me. You always do such a good job.
00:00:40:21 - 00:00:57:22
Unknown
So this is a lot of pressure, but I'm really excited to talk with all of our speakers today. I know they have a lot of great information to share. Good morning, MRA friends and welcome to our annual HR conference. So excited to be here today and we're excited to kick off the day with my good friend Jamie.
00:00:58:00 - 00:01:19:02
Unknown
So I've had the privilege of getting to know her over the last month or so, and we actually found her through TikTok. So she is hilarious and has so many funny HR stories. So Jamie, I want to give a little bit of background about how you got into TikTok and your HR, Horrendous HR, Horrible HR, everything like that and one so I've actually been in HR
00:01:19:02 - 00:01:43:12
Unknown
For the long the 19 years. Oh. Okay. Go home at the end i in back in the early days of 2020, i was working for a nonprofit clinic and i was the sole h.r. Person over for clinics. And i just felt really alone. Things are constantly changing during the pandemic. And, you know, we were looking for guidance, and and so I thought, you know what?
00:01:43:14 - 00:02:08:03
Unknown
This is funny, and and I started posting memes that I started he works right on our side of the unit and then I dabbled in tiktoc a little bit and then it's really spiraled from there. I've now created horrendous HR which is funny actually, and then horrendous h.r. Stories. And then i also love to call out terrible job postings, which i like to call that absolutely not.
00:02:08:05 - 00:02:29:06
Unknown
And i was on another page called millennial misery kit. I'm an elder millennial and I just love the nostalgia and the so that's that's kind of how I create it. I accidentally built an empire is what I said. She went viral. Everyone forgot to check her out on TikTok. And. Oh, so you have a horrendous H.R. story, the know crazy H.R. story is give us one of your best ones.
00:02:29:06 - 00:02:51:20
Unknown
I think I have a lot over the last 18 years, which I'm sure everyone does here. I figure I fable one of why not? I'm really stuck with me because it happened early in my career. I honestly didn't know how to handle it is I had an employee she instead of and making it to the restroom they decided to pull their pants down as they walked to the restroom.
00:02:51:22 - 00:03:11:06
Unknown
And number two, all the way to the restroom. And of course it was on video and he to bless them, and they weren't having stomach issues. Just FYI, it was a it was a, you know, the middle finger part of my logo. All the was they were the middle finger to us because that person had just recently gotten written up.
00:03:11:06 - 00:03:30:02
Unknown
But that one sticks with me because I think I was like an assistant at the time and who'd been out there that would talk by near me. But now I'd be like, Oh, well, come on, give me some gloves I'll clean it up. And that couldn't be good. Well, I'm sure all of you have plenty of stories as well, but I'm excited for you to hear from Jamie throughout the day today and hear all the stories that you have.
00:03:30:02 - 00:03:54:16
Unknown
So what are you most excited about for the rest of the day today? And honestly, this interacting with fellow folks. And oddly enough, I'm so glad y'all let me jump up on stage. spoiler scared on, but I'm really excited to interact and hopefully make you laugh. All right. Well, thanks for being here today. We are excited for her, everyone to hear the humor from you and we're excited to have all of you join us virtually today.
00:03:54:16 - 00:04:13:06
Unknown
And so have a great day. Everybody will see you in a little bit. Hi, everyone. Welcome back. And thank you, Paula, for joining us for a few extra minutes. I want to say thank you for your time today and thank you for sharing your story. Obviously, as they HR professionals, we all know how real burnout is right now.
00:04:13:06 - 00:04:30:02
Unknown
And I think you give everyone some real practical tools that they can take back. And I know the last slide about the small wins was something that really resonated to me, and it was something that our team was just talking about because there are so many things going on. So it's easy to start looking ahead to the next one.
00:04:30:14 - 00:04:46:06
Unknown
I just wanted to talk about how do you even start the conversation about burnout at the workplace? That is such a great question. And, you know, one of the things that I didn't mention my story, but that is certainly true is like we don't wear a sign when we walk around that says, Hey, I'm burned out.
00:04:46:10 - 00:05:07:03
Unknown
And in fact, like, one of the things that I did a lot is I tried to hide it. Like I really actively didn't want people to know that I was struggling. And so I think the first step, because a conversation almost always has to be had if you're feeling a sense of significant stress and burnout. So it's finding someone who you feel comfortable saying something to you, whether that's an h.r.
00:05:07:03 - 00:05:24:21
Unknown
Professional, whether that is your direct report or a direct manager, I should say, or a leader, even if it's somebody outside the organization. But I'm going to frame this as a conversation. We can have at work. So find that person and you trust who you want to say something to and then think about a goal that you have for the conversation.
00:05:25:01 - 00:05:53:08
Unknown
So what is it that you need or want and to be a couple of days off? And do you need something like a sabbatical? Is that even something that your company offers? And do you need to switch switch to a different team perhaps, or think about another area of work within the organization and be very clear to extend that You can because when we're feeling stressed and burned out, we have maybe not have a clear perspective in that regard, but try and figure out what it is that you're looking for or what you want from the conversation.
00:05:53:10 - 00:06:13:04
Unknown
And then it's just a matter of along with putting down some notes and being very intentional about how you go about having the conversation and then trying to make sure you crystallize next steps. So now if you're in the leader who is hearing this from someone, it's important to know you don't have to have all the answers. You don't have to fix the problem in that conversation.
00:06:13:06 - 00:06:36:20
Unknown
But you do need to have a pretty keen awareness of what some of the resources are in your organization, particularly if there's a mental health issue going on. stay in your lane, you don't have to really actively address those pieces. You do have to know how to path people in the right way, and then it becomes and being very clear about next steps, what are we going to do to follow up?
00:06:36:20 - 00:06:51:21
Unknown
What is the next step going to be? I need to maybe have some conversation as a leader and figure out how I can help or what the next step might look like. But then we have to be very clear and come back together again, usually pretty quickly. And to figure out what that's going to or what that's really going to look like.
00:06:51:23 - 00:07:15:21
Unknown
But recognizing too, that there are also resources, people who are out there who do coach in this area. And so sometimes that can be outsold resource as well in addition to potentially a mental health expert or taking some sort of, you know, short term or longer term or, you know, rearranging an internal team or one out. And it was so that's the framework that I set with folks.
00:07:15:23 - 00:07:35:12
Unknown
But I always want to say it's really hard to suffer in silence with burnout. And so at some point your burnout will get to a point where you likely have to have a conversation with someone. So really paying attention to that and not being afraid to actively start those discussions. And it's one of the things I did wrong as I waited way too long.
00:07:35:12 - 00:07:57:09
Unknown
So you seek that assistance in. So that's that's how I would start to have that conversation. I love the structure behind it because I think people can see how they would start that conversation. And so, question for you, so a lot of times meetings start with how's it going and the common response is “good”. So how do you balance the positivity with the reality?
00:07:57:09 - 00:08:18:03
Unknown
And especially as a leader, it's not hard to walk around, be like, Oh, I'm very tired, or I'm on stress or I'm I work till midnight last night. I like, How do you balance the positivity with the reality? That's such a great question. And I think it's really incumbent on leaders to model both sides of that equation. So I think it's important for leaders to actually say, you know what, I'm really stressed out right now.
00:08:18:03 - 00:08:32:15
Unknown
And here are some things that I'm doing and I left a little bit early last night. I want you all as a team to feel like you can take Saturday off or however you know, it plays out in your organization. But then I think we also have to start modeling to what are some of the good things that are happening.
00:08:32:15 - 00:08:54:09
Unknown
And so you can even, you know, be intentional if you want to send this question out ahead of time to folks so that they're prepared. But we're going to start we're going to take 5 minutes and our next meeting and I want to go around the room. We're have people who are patching in until kick us off and then who has a win, a success, a small something positive that has happened to you this week or within the past couple of weeks.
00:08:54:14 - 00:09:12:18
Unknown
So that we're also hearing that side of the story as well, because it's really important. It's so easy for us to focus, especially in uncertain times and times of change about everything that's different through. But to really balance that was messages of we're doing some good stuff here. I'm like, there's really a lot of things that are going well.
00:09:12:20 - 00:09:31:15
Unknown
It's very motivational for us to hear that side of that side of the equation. And sure, going back to this all, answer it, but you're all about the tablet alone and the both. Thank you so much for sharing all of your insight with us, Carla, your passion, your energy. Just we are practical tools as amazing at this, a perfect way to start our day and tell them.
00:09:31:16 - 00:09:59:16
Unknown
Thank you so much, everyone. We'll see you back in a few minutes. And we're back with another interview. Josh, thanks for joining us here. You did a great job on your presentation and it's something I talked a lot with our members about. So one of the questions I get a lot and I'm curious on your take on this is and a lot of companies have gone to either a hybrid or a virtual workplace, but with the next generation coming in, a lot of you on that face are based communication, that in-person mentorship.
00:09:59:20 - 00:10:23:04
Unknown
What is your thought on that and how like from a company see a plan, like how did they work with that? The managers and mentors to get them back into the office for that in-person mentorship experience? The certainly, what if I were to be here with you? And that's a great frustration and it's something that we think a lot about how we know the return office and what for certain about workforce transition is a one of the most fruitful elements.
00:10:23:04 - 00:10:48:15
Unknown
So it's early and really defining. And in the, you know, the current workforce reality as it was, we think about the fact that for example working from home has on young people is that there are a lot of elements of a great workforce workplace experience that simply cannot be replicated online and turning socialization and having mentors there. They are really having a sense of in-person learning on the job.
00:10:48:15 - 00:11:07:01
Unknown
One of their osmosis really being able to pick up my subconscious things about how to really operate in the company's culture, how to get ahead without being said, though, you know, there is an element of flexibility and there is an element of, you know, having trust of the company, having trust. Another, to be able to get your work into the system and that happens remotely.
00:11:07:01 - 00:11:26:05
Unknown
And in a hybrid model cell with I think about the ideal right as we would love, you know, hybrid model where we need some sort of in-person interaction where, you know, if you and I are coworkers, we can do this right here, not over Zoom. I know you would. I really wouldn't be anything but you know in doubt conversation over oversell and so it's going to work in progress right.
00:11:26:05 - 00:12:01:01
Unknown
And a lot of it too is, you know, cost benefit analysis as to people thought, well, if I'm in traffic and, you know, I want more what that can do to somebody's time. But also we think about we have beautiful downtown Milwaukee, you know, where we're we're fairly speaking and the impact of people that coming into the office, you know, on vibrant cities is also a really important thing to think about, to solve so many complications and so many factors to consider when it comes from my rent to the to, you know, and work from home and calming quiet The people that kind of get for my having zero in-person experience are those in our
00:12:01:01 - 00:12:18:05
Unknown
generation because we just don't have the role models that in-person a real you think about you know how we want our careers to go. Absolutely. Well, you gave a lot of great things for employers to think about and a lot of takeaways, But if do you give with employers 1 to 1 thing that they can go do today or tomorrow?
00:12:18:05 - 00:12:37:21
Unknown
Like what's that one takeaway you want everyone to know? Do not look at my early career experiences as as a as an afterthought. And they matter. They matter. Today. We have to be proactive in building a bunch of leadership talent. We have to be proactive and making sure that young people are having a good experience and have a good view with outlook of the organization.
00:12:37:23 - 00:13:01:15
Unknown
Because word spreads fast nowadays faster than it's ever been, there is going to be a significant divides and winners and losers have organizations that get decimals of the dollar in it in that they do. It's the right thing to do. Well, half the I believe that you know if we at my business project that they are successful in how their organization is designed more effective early career programs that everybody around out our age is going to have a better start to their career.
00:13:01:17 - 00:13:20:22
Unknown
And that that just has such positive reverberation as economically and socially it can have psychologically for everybody. So as I say, that for me is the biggest thing is let's just be natural. But yeah, I was just going to say I love the word intentional and experience. So to ending up so a more and well, it is super difficult I should add that.
00:13:21:00 - 00:13:40:20
Unknown
So I am born right in between Millenial and Zillennials, socan I go by Zillenial?. Whatever you want. I feel that's the generation stuff. It's secondary to what we're talking about here right? Where did supposed things at all for And it's two people in the workforce experience are pretty common across generation.
00:13:40:20 - 00:14:12:00
Unknown
And I still hear high seas. Why everybody to think about what their life was like when they were 21 years old? Yeah. Then that is it has nothing to do with the generation of actually has to do with kind of lifecycle. Yeah. And it's really about thinking about what does somebody at this stage of our career need to get ahead and help it organizations you know provide that for us what I do what regardless of gen-z is a lot of your millennial everyone's everyone's got their got their he does tenure yeah as well thank you for joining us Jasmine thank you for those online we will see you in a little bit but we made
00:14:12:00 - 00:14:47:15
Unknown
it to lunch break. Welcome back, everyone. We are here with Patricia Shields from Naviant and her session was all about embracing technology and their digital transformation. So how did Naviant even get started in your digital transformation and technology journey? And yeah, good question and we talked about this as well. Does a lot of organizations or aware of here she did a survey with MRA members pretty adamantly not he did started to embrace their digital transformation journey so we always recommend by digitizing documents that's such an important kind of pivotal part about H.R. and being able to be innovative.
00:14:47:15 - 00:15:17:04
Unknown
What the technology is that you use. And so in going from there and then starting to look an opportunity to see utilize all their technology. So what's something cool that Naviant has done to some of their cool digital transformation Yeah pieces or what something cool that you guys have done well I always however for warriors and that is consistent is that they think that's such you've had a it's an informal experience for employees to feel like they're being offered they're having opportunities to interact with that company, which a lot of places is their manager.
00:15:17:04 - 00:15:43:12
Unknown
So historically, when I served maybe 15 years ago all over using paper documents here are walking them around that company or email in a model were following up with people had a we were the name of the organization but now the ways in technology we made a SharePoint available or do poorly check in. So using technology and it's this we they have an interactive conversation and give it high information and managers are being kind of real time.
00:15:43:12 - 00:16:02:00
Unknown
So that's the way that people that we're having most growth. That's awesome. So were you surprised summarize so backing up here, we did a survey before the event and as you know, why it was holding people back from embracing technology. Were you surprised that only 3% said that they were afraid of change or were you not surprised? I was surprised.
00:16:02:00 - 00:16:25:12
Unknown
I was also really proud and have been doing h.r. For 20 years now. And i love that h.r. Professionals. I don't know, maybe today, don and like, were a real team who don't want anything to be different than it's historically been. But 3% is not true. I think that really show that we are in a leader and we do want to find ways to use technology, but we need to overcome some of the other hesitations that we talked about.
00:16:25:12 - 00:16:42:23
Unknown
And so like so as h.r. Professionals and leaders, if we have some people on our team that might not be excited about and how can we lead by example and really demonstrate that change is a good thing? Yeah, I think one of the ways that we highlight verify since may around some use cases is really do it in planning.
00:16:42:23 - 00:17:01:15
Unknown
And so not just putting technology in just for the sake of holding it in while using planning to really sit down and let all the key users APIs and your faith and science and technology be at the table so they can understand the benefits of the technologies as well, I think. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here today, Tricia.
00:17:01:15 - 00:17:21:17
Unknown
We appreciate all the examples and insights that you've shared with us today. Thank you. We have one more surprise guests here, and actually we have two of them, Caitlin and Laura from Husch Blackwell. So why don't you two introduce yourself a little short video. So my name is Moira Mallory, and this is Caitlin with me and we are both lawyers at Husch Blackwelll.
00:17:21:17 - 00:17:43:12
Unknown
And we practice exclusively in the labor and employment space. And so we are working with HR professionals like you guys all day and we love it. And we are a part of our firm, Schwab Old Milwaukee Office, although we have a really a national practice and we're just thrilled to be a part of this firm today. And that's a few minutes ago.
00:17:43:17 - 00:18:05:11
Unknown
And so unfortunately, I wasn't able to attend their session, but they were giving me a little bit of an overview and the ESG component and retention as well as DEI. So give us a little bit more on that. Yeah, this whole ESG, it's kind of been a key trader in the recent years. I'm coming over from the Eagle, actually, but a feed in popularity here in the United States.
00:18:05:11 - 00:18:27:14
Unknown
And it stands for environmental, social and governance. So how do your company interacts in those green spheres such as hire and student financial environment persons? How are and now versus and how you treat people in the social realm as well? A Your hungry net regulates itself of the policies internally and externally. All paths and this here of ESG.
00:18:27:16 - 00:18:49:17
Unknown
And that's what we're really here to talk about today, how you can be a better balance sheet on opportunities which you then increase into retention. And 30th have actually show a very positive and correlating relationship between high gas scores and attractiveness to talent, as well as retention of talent, which especially for the gen generations we know is kind of challenging right now.
00:18:49:17 - 00:19:11:10
Unknown
So we're here to help connect use and tips and tricks on how to retain as individuals. Can you give me a one thing The companies can go back and implement tomorrow or maybe when they're back in the office, I'm doubt. Good idea. Do you want to tell you? I think I did. Right? Sure. Yeah. So he I talked a lot about during the session about DNI efforts and how that is one component of ESG.
00:19:11:10 - 00:19:32:13
Unknown
ESG is a really big beast. There's a lot to it. But D&I is one component. And it is a very, very important about it. And we talk specifically about the “I” inclusion quite a bit in the session and how important it is to not just focus on data and statistics, but really focus on making sure that your employees feel valued and appreciated.
00:19:32:15 - 00:19:49:15
Unknown
And that can be done in so many different ways. But just by engaging with them and talking to them about their family and their kids and their dogs and, you know, all of the things that, you know, we think of as leaving outside of the workforce. If it is part of who we are that we bring to the workplace.
00:19:49:15 - 00:20:08:08
Unknown
And it is really, really important for our employees to be a valued and appreciate it. And just given some time, I know we are all spread so thin and we all have so much on our plate, but it's one of those things that is worth investing in your people because that is such a key component to your business being a success. Perfect.
00:20:08:08 - 00:20:23:14
Unknown
Well, thank you all so much for being here today and thank you for sharing this. It was a perfect way to wrap up our interview is and we will more session live. So we will wrap it up here shortly. And thanks, everybody. We've almost made it to the end of the day. Hang with us. We've got Sean here.
00:20:23:18 - 00:20:44:04
Unknown
She's going to be closing out our day. And for those of you that were with us last year, you'll remember his awesome performance. So we're super excited to have him and the day to day core grateful for your kind words. And if he were here last time. Stay with that. Is there's a lot of fun moments that we're talking about in the next hour as to what is on your highlight of the day so far.
00:20:44:04 - 00:21:05:06
Unknown
Well, I'm talking about moments that matter. And then I've heard already from the other speakers so many moments that matter to our professionals. I've heard about moments of humor. I think what Jamie's been doing that an important h.r. In the culture and also for, you know, out moments around building a cultural and a system that really supports the employee better at in moments of caring.
00:21:05:06 - 00:21:18:09
Unknown
And i'll be talking about more about the self first some of my highlight. So to give us a little bit of a sneak peek of what you're going to talk about. I know you just say a little bit, but give me a little more and it'll me I'm not going to talk about any frameworks, give you all these diagrams, Nothing.
00:21:18:09 - 00:21:38:08
Unknown
And you can see I want to give this a real tangible things that have meaning. Really show that you care about the employees at your organization and things that you can actually take back and start using today, next week. Plus, you have to get your leaders doing this stuff to because H.R., hear all these this that small group, your leadership team should be part of your h.r.
00:21:38:08 - 00:21:56:11
Unknown
Team. So how can you get those people also thinking about these mountains of water? Awesome. Well, thank you, sean, for being here. I'm super excited for his presentation. And like we said, if you haven't seen him, he was so great. We brought him back this year and he is closing out our day. And so hang with us, everyone, and thanks for joining us. woo-hoo!
00:21:56:15 - 00:22:14:10
Unknown
And that's a wrap. Thanks for tuning in to this week's podcast and thank you card here for hosting our conference highlights for this week and we're excited to see you next week. Thanks for having me. And thanks to all of our speakers for sharing all their great insights with us. And that wraps up our content for this episode.
00:22:14:11 - 00:22:32:18
Unknown
Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign them to connect for more podcast updates, check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA’s 30 minute Thrive so you don't miss out. Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the HR conversation.

23 min
May 10, 2023 Surviving the 9 to 5: Managing Work-Related Stress and Burnout
Description:
Many employees face work-related stress and burnout in today's fast-paced and demanding work environment. In this podcast, we delve into the challenges of the modern workday and explore practical strategies for managing stress, avoiding burnout, and achieving work-life balance. We discuss common stressors in the workplace, such as heavy workloads, long hours, deadlines, and high expectations, and offer insights on how to cope with them effectively. We also share expert tips on time management, setting boundaries, practicing self-care, and building resilience to thrive in the 9 to 5 grind.
Whether you're a seasoned professional or just starting your career, this podcast provides valuable guidance and support for surviving and thriving in the modern workplace. Don't let work stress take a toll on your health and well-being. Tune in to MRA's "30 minute THRIVE" and learn how to manage work-related stress and burnout like a pro.
Resources:
Time Management - MRA Course
Gallup 2020 Survey on Employee Wellbeing
Harvard Business Review Article-How to Tell Your Boss You’re Burned Out
Eisenhower Matrix
Forbes article on The Pomodoro Technique
MRA Membership
About MRA
Let's Connect:
Guest Bio - Michelle Hyde
Guest LinkedIn Profile - Michelle Hyde
Host Bio - Sophie Boler
Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler
Transcript:
Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word.
00;00;00;02 - 00;00;21;05
Unknown
Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive, your go to podcast for anything and everything HR. Powered by MRA, the Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here.
00;00;21;06 - 00;00;46;07
Unknown
Now it's time to thrive. Hello, everybody, and welcome to this episode of 30 Minute Thrive. I'm excited to talk about this topic for today, and it's one that it's really never gonna lose its importance and a topic that people are always looking at for new tips and advice, and that is managing work related stress and burnout. So I'm also excited to introduce our guest for today.
00;00;46;14 - 00;01;14;16
Unknown
So I'm here with Michelle Hyde and MRA learning in Development Instructor. So welcome to the podcast, Michelle. Thanks so much. So be so excited to be here with you today and to be talking about this really important topic. Absolutely. Well, Michelle, I know you hold a lot of expertise and diversity, inclusion, employee experience, coaching and event planning. So I know you have a lot of great tips on this topic, like timing and communication.
00;01;14;24 - 00;01;39;04
Unknown
So this title for this episode is Surviving the 9 to 5: managing work related stress and Burnout. So let's start out by talking about how you can really identify that stress and burnout in the workplace. So Michelle, what are some common signs and symptoms of work related stress burnout that employees and employers really should be aware of? Great questions.
00;01;39;05 - 00;02;03;07
Unknown
I'll be So first off, we all have stress. Every one of us has stress, whether it's a deadline. Maybe it's a big project, an upcoming public speaking engagement. All of these things are stress. And I think a lot of times stress and burnout are used interchangeably. You know, it's kind of viewed as the same type of thing, but they actually are different stresses that work short term stress.
00;02;03;09 - 00;02;29;22
Unknown
It's you know, we have a big event coming up. We have a big launch that's coming up. So there's going to be stress that's going to be involved in that. We're burnout is a more prolonged and heightened response to that stress. So in the nineties, Dr. Christina maxwell did developed that MBI, the Maslow burnout inventory three and it's still used today.
00;02;30;05 - 00;03;04;18
Unknown
And according to her research, there's actually three characteristics that distinguish burnout from everyday stress. And those characteristics are emotional exhaustion, depersonalization. Fancy word and then reduce personal and professional accomplishments. So basically what it means that in addition to this overwhelming exhaustion feel as a result of this burnout, there's usually decreased motivation lowered on the job performance and then negative attitudes towards both yourself and other people.
00;03;04;27 - 00;03;31;01
Unknown
Sounds like a real party, right? But really not so much. No, but that's the stress is kind of that one time thing where that burnout is, is as a result of all those things kind of piling up. Okay. Well, that's good to know. I feel like like you said, a lot of people do use those terms interchangeably, but it means like you have to be experiencing the stress for a wild kind of experience, the burnout.
00;03;31;10 - 00;03;52;28
Unknown
Yes. It's kind of compounded, perhaps. And it shows up, you know, if you live ever. We all get tired in the mornings, Right. And it's hard to get out of it. But if you ever really, truly struggle to get out of bed in the morning and then when you do, there's this disproportionate emotional response to what you're seeing maybe in your email inbox.
00;03;53;07 - 00;04;22;09
Unknown
You get an email and everything just seems like the biggest deal ever. Could be anger or you could burst into tears or the situation doesn't really call for that. It's just completely disproportionate to the situation. We really looking at that point. Mm hmm. I kind of have another example about when you mentioned about kind of having a hard time getting out of bed, just kind of dealing exhausted right away in the morning.
00;04;22;18 - 00;04;47;23
Unknown
It's also kind of like the feeling on Sunday nights where you're just dreading work and it's 8:00 on Sunday and you're like, oh, my gosh, I have to go to work tomorrow. And that just those thoughts consume you. I feel like back then they vary. Yeah, there. These are real. Absolutely. I need to find something on LinkedIn recently that said you're workplace culture is how your employees feel on Sunday night.
00;04;48;03 - 00;05;17;26
Unknown
And I thought that was a really eye opening for sure. And for sure we'll kind of moving on into the next question. How can employees really differentiate between normal work, stress and burnout and when they should be really seeking help or taking action? Yeah, so it's somewhat of a chicken and the egg mentality at that point. Know, the more burnout you are, the less able you are to bounce back from being sort of the less resilient you are.
00;05;18;09 - 00;05;42;24
Unknown
And so it kind of becomes the cycle that you get into. I think once these action becomes long lasting, once you start making sex at work or missing deadlines, your emotions are getting in the way of things happening at work, all of those things. It may be time to get some help, and help will come in many different forms too.
00;05;43;06 - 00;06;03;23
Unknown
So everything from seeking out your support network of friends or family to reaching out to a counselor from your organization's employee assistance program, maybe even just having a heart to heart conversation with your leadership where you can say, This is what I'm dealing with is our end way. We can rebalance some of these priorities that I have on my plate right now.
00;06;03;24 - 00;06;28;24
Unknown
All of those things can look like help. It doesn't have to be just one particular thing. Yeah, that's great advice, too. And you know that communication and I know I'm sure you have more advice to come on communication, but I feel like keeping your manager or your boss in the loop of how you're feeling in your emotions with how you're dealing with stress and burnout is also really essential, too.
00;06;29;11 - 00;06;51;20
Unknown
Absolutely. If you have if you built that sort of basis of psychological aid where your employees feel like they can come and talk to you about things, then you're going to get the real responses as opposed to just this canned answer of, oh, I'm fine. And does it make employees push through? This burnout is that's one mistakes happen and that's when that's when we start to get into some real trouble.
00;06;51;20 - 00;07;20;06
Unknown
Actually. Absolutely. So what are some effective strategies then, for managing heavy workloads and long hours to prevent this burnout? Well, what's interesting and I actually found this out just in doing some research for this podcast. Burnout doesn't only result from long hours. So there are some studies that say, you know, if you work over a certain number of hours per week, that's going to have detrimental impacts to your health.
00;07;20;26 - 00;07;45;00
Unknown
Look what found out about burnout is that it tends to be the types of work that we're doing, not necessarily the hours themselves that are causing the burnout. So there was a study done in 2020 by Gallup, and the results showed that working less didn't necessarily equate to happiness. It was more questions like, Are you able to shine within your home?
00;07;45;18 - 00;08;07;18
Unknown
Are you able to make a positive impact? Are you getting strong feedback on your work? It's when that work starts to feel like it's out of our control. That's when that burnout really sets in. And additionally, the study showed that the relationship with your manager sets the foundation for almost all other causes of burnout, which probably comes as no surprise to you.
00;08;08;22 - 00;08;36;03
Unknown
That role with our readers is so important. So, you know, no pressures. Manager But oh my goodness, it's so important. Absolutely. Well, I feel like it's also just important. If you do have a really heavy workload, you're just working long hours. Something that helps me when I'm feeling a little overwhelmed is just setting small goals every single day, even if the goal is very small.
00;08;36;10 - 00;09;09;06
Unknown
Something like cleaning out your filing cabinet, or maybe it's I want to make five people smile today. But when you when you accomplish that, you feel so good about yourself and the work you're doing. So it makes that big, heavy workload just seem more doable, honestly. And also finding motivators like what motivates you at work and what can help kind of build your resilience and know you'll get into that later.
00;09;09;06 - 00;09;41;26
Unknown
But I think those are some kind of things that help me when I'm feeling a little overwhelmed too, is just setting those small goals and checking them off and and you kind of feel successful and it builds your confidence and motivation to absolutely. To find those wins through out there for sure. And I think when you're looking at a really heavy workload and you're trying to balance everything, the first thing I would recommend people do is make a list of absolutely everything that they have to do.
00;09;42;09 - 00;10;09;19
Unknown
Now, in the short term effort media huge list person. In the short term, this can stress you out more. I would tell you this as you're making the list and as you're looking at every single thing, you might start thinking, Oh my gosh, like I'm never going to get all of this done, but stick with me here, because from there you go through the list and you prioritize everything within A, B or C based upon importance.
00;10;10;03 - 00;10;26;26
Unknown
And if you're able to do that, you can kind of triage. Okay, what are the things I have to get done before I leave the office today? Those are your A's, your B's are what do I need to finish by the end of the week? And then C is what are those longer term projects that I don't want to lose sight of that those also need to be on energy.
00;10;26;27 - 00;10;47;26
Unknown
So that that prioritization can be really helpful to you. And then what's been identified where you think the priorities are. We're not past your supervisor to make sure they're on the same page is an 80. You may be a senior so supervisor, how can you balance those different things And just having a second set of eyes on that can be helpful too.
00;10;48;10 - 00;11;14;23
Unknown
Yeah, that's also great advice. So that would be kind of tricky. It's you made the list and you prioritize so many A's in your boss looked at it and said, No, all your B's should be A's. All right. I'm sure you're on the same page there. Back to that communication. So we talked about this a little bit, but what are some other effective time management techniques that can help employees balance their workload and prevent that burnout?
00;11;15;24 - 00;11;42;25
Unknown
Well, I'm so glad you brought this up, because MRA does happen to offer a whole time management thinking during that. But it's a class that I teach my supervisor cabin procedures. Many of our instructors teach the time management class, and we've gotten fantastic feedback on how it really is some of those tools that you just haven't thought about in a while, but it's a really good reminder.
00;11;42;25 - 00;12;08;04
Unknown
So definitely would recommend taking that time management class. But some of the tools that we offer within the class, if you've ever heard of the Eisenhower method, it's a circle grade where you kind of identify what are the most important things that you need to do based upon some different ideas. So I would encourage folks to look at the Eisenhower method.
00;12;08;25 - 00;12;27;25
Unknown
Certainly the prioritization that we had talked about with the Abby and see with the list. There's also a tool that I used a lot in grad school that I love. It's called the Pomodoro Technique. Have you ever heard of the Pomodoro technique? I've heard of I've heard of that word, and I don't remember exactly what it means. So you should get refreshed?
00;12;28;11 - 00;12;50;12
Unknown
Absolutely. It's you know, a lot of times it's associated with that tomato timer. I think just Pomodoro. And you know what it is? It's this idea. And there's all kinds of online resources where you can utilize the timer. And I've seen it done in a couple of different ways, whether it's 15 minutes or 20 minute increments, but it set a timer for 15 minutes.
00;12;50;12 - 00;13;15;21
Unknown
We can do anything for 15 minutes, right? We found what I tell myself and I'm on the treadmill 15 minutes at a time. Right. And so if there's anything that you really need to focus on and it needs to be heads down work, turn off your email, turn off routines, it'll set a timer for 15 minutes and then you get a break and then another 15 minutes and you get a break and then another 15, 20 minutes, and then you get a longer break.
00;13;15;21 - 00;13;37;09
Unknown
So it's basically just an idea of sort of breaking down time in order to focus on really specific pieces. And so for me, when I was in grad school, I was reading some really dense material and I would say, okay, if I can read this for 15 minutes, then I can take a 15 minute break. It was a great way to kind of break up the studying.
00;13;37;18 - 00;14;05;13
Unknown
So for those really sort of cerebral tasks that you have or maybe even just things that you've been pushing off, I think the Politburo technique can be really helpful to you. And then yeah, and then finally, just making your calendar work for you, right? You know, there's all sorts of different things that you can do, whether it be blocking out time to do certain tasks, whether it be setting up office hours where your team can get a hold of you and they know that they can reach you during this time.
00;14;05;23 - 00;14;24;04
Unknown
What are the things that you can do to make technology work for you and in particular your calendar work for you too? Absolutely. Kind of going back to that technique that you were just talking about, like so many people feel like a high of 8 hours in a day. I need to be working at 8 hours a day, like no breaks.
00;14;24;14 - 00;14;54;16
Unknown
And that's also what can cause that stress and burnout, too. So that that technique where you're working hard for 15 minutes and then you're kind of taking that break, that also allows you to just breathe and cross off something on your lowest rates, right? Absolutely. And again, back to that motivation. I think so. The reason you and I like lists so much is being able to cross that they got that the best part of a list right doing something called or meeting.
00;14;55;04 - 00;15;26;14
Unknown
Oh yes oh yeah or you're like list maker 2.0 I love it. So kind of moving in to setting boundaries, how important is that in setting boundaries in the workplace for managing work related stress? And do you have any tips or advice on how to establish maintaining healthy boundaries? Well, you know, I think this is boundaries is a word that has really come into play in the workplace much more frequently in the last few years than it has.
00;15;26;23 - 00;15;46;20
Unknown
I mean, I think if I asked my dad about, you know, what were your boundaries like in the workplace, he would laugh at me. You would say, are you kidding? Well, like, what's the boundary? Right? So I think that with boundaries, like much of this, it's so individual based upon what kind of a job you have, what kind of a a role you have, what are your responsibilities?
00;15;46;20 - 00;16;09;08
Unknown
So boundaries might look different for different workplace cultures and then different roles, too. So I'm thinking about like a health care organization or, you know, if you're on call or if you're at the highest levels of leadership, you may not be able to turn your phone off or your notification bar. That may not just be not a reality to you.
00;16;09;18 - 00;16;34;09
Unknown
It's a visual thing. So I think the question is what are healthy boundaries look like for you personally? I've heard of one of my colleagues doing this with a trusted colleague. A lot of times our colleagues can see when we become a little bit more short fuzed than even when we ourselves didn't see it. Sometimes it's easier for us to recognize it and other people needs to be created.
00;16;34;09 - 00;17;09;07
Unknown
This honesty pact where they said, If I can tell that the emotions are coming pretty fast, maybe I'm sensing some burnout. I'm going to go to them and neither one of us can get offended by this. But I'm going to say, Hey, maybe it's time for you to take your day, maybe take it personally. And by having that honesty pact or knowing they could both go to each other and say that and recognizing some signs of burnout and you would it be helpful for you to take just a step back now, maybe that's not going to one day offer or even a couple of days vacation isn't going to clear every ounce of burnout that
00;17;09;07 - 00;17;38;00
Unknown
you have. But lighten your load a little bit would help. And yeah, but it also shows that your managers supervisor does care about you, that they're off. Hey, take a day off. We know this. You're you're experiencing a lot of stress or burnout even right now whether you're sure the word or the term self care I feel I can say has been pretty explosive the past couple of years.
00;17;38;00 - 00;18;03;22
Unknown
So what was it about that? Okay. So I'm curious what role self-care does have in managing work related stress and burnout, And do you have any self-care tips or practices that employees can kind of incorporate into their everyday routine? Well, I think self-care is one of those words that it means something different to a lot of different people.
00;18;03;22 - 00;18;27;27
Unknown
Right? And in the research that I've done around burnout, I found that a number of different experts say that self-care alone can't fix burnout. So what say your heart surgeon who has done 100 procedures this week? Or maybe you're a full time caregiver for a sick family member or something like that. And then I tell you, you know, go do a sheet mask, go get a pedicure.
00;18;28;08 - 00;18;54;12
Unknown
Right. That's going to be what if they got your to do list, but you just can't get to you and you set pieces. You can actually make you feel worse because it becomes something else. You're responsible for you. So that was the really interesting way to look at it. So instead of the you about what we normally consider self-care, I actually called a group of my friends and I said, What are the things that you do to manage work related stress?
00;18;54;12 - 00;19;19;09
Unknown
And I loved their answers. One friend in particular, I just thought that this was so valuable. So the first thing was delegation. And I don't think we normally think about self-care and delegation as going hand in hand, but our point was that both professionally and personally, are there things that you could afford to hire out around the house that would take stress off of you?
00;19;20;03 - 00;19;40;22
Unknown
So the yard work, things like house cleaning, things like meal prep, all of these different things. What can you delegates in both your work life and your home life that would allow you more time and space to work on what you do best? Well done. Stayed out really simple. Yeah. I thought that was such a good way to look at self care.
00;19;41;03 - 00;20;08;22
Unknown
Another thing is sharing tasks. So another one of my friends and her staff, they take turns doing the dishes and one deals with the dishes on even days of the month. And what deals with an odd date of the now this. These are very specific, right? But by doing this, nobody feels like it's unfair, nobody gets resentful and another thing that this couple does is they assign point people for tasks.
00;20;09;06 - 00;20;32;11
Unknown
So maybe one person is in charge of all things scouting for their kid and other partner doesn't have to read emails, doesn't have to organize anything with scouting. That is the one person's job. They are totally owning that. The other manages basketball camps, same role we aren't worried about. The other person is going to read the emails. They're not going to bring the snacks.
00;20;32;25 - 00;20;53;21
Unknown
It's all sort of shared by that one person. So that way they'd all kind of get in each other's lane with that, and then it lessens the amount of things that they personally have to worry about. Well, that's totally smart. I feel like a lot of people don't kind of use delegation in their personal lives. So more and that's great.
00;20;54;00 - 00;21;16;06
Unknown
And I feel like I like how you said that self care alone can't fix Bruno. And I almost feel like it's kind of like putting a Band-Aid on the burnout if you I mean, if you're feeling stress and or even feeling symptoms of burnout, you go take a hike that's not gonna fix your stress and burnout, maybe put a Band-Aid on it.
00;21;16;06 - 00;21;50;13
Unknown
But if you consistently do it each week, it might be long run. I'll be right. Absolutely. So kind of talking about how employees can effectively communicate their needs, how can they communicate their needs with their employer and colleagues May comes to managing the stress well, this is a theory proposition for high performers. Bitcoin people, especially high performers, are fearful of being seen as weak.
00;21;50;27 - 00;22;15;13
Unknown
They don't want to be seen as a whiner. And so if you're really stressed out, if you're really burnt out, some people feel like it looks like failure, going to your supervisor and asking for help and spoiler alert, your boss and your team probably already know it. We feel like, you know, we've put up this big wall and nobody can tell.
00;22;16;01 - 00;22;45;13
Unknown
Guess what? They probably are. Yeah. So by being vulnerable and being open to help, you can actually take some really positive steps towards resolving that burnout, which is also something that high performers are looking to do. We're fixing, right? We want to get in there and make sure that we're fixing whatever the problem is. So by taking these positive steps and reaching out and opening up these lines of communication, that actually is what we need to do to get to that fixing mindset.
00;22;46;11 - 00;23;11;02
Unknown
You're fantastic article from Harvard Business Review from 2021, and it's called How to Tell Your Boss You're Burned Out. So I can talk about like perfect timing, right? It gives some really great tips, like start by telling a work friend if telling your boss in too overwhelming, can you go to a peer instead and have that conversation to kind of practice that a little bit.
00;23;12;11 - 00;23;45;06
Unknown
Just things like owning your feelings which can be tough breast You you know, the truth is you just try to push it down on your feelings and then thinking about what it would look like to make the situation better before going to your boss and asking for help. So one of the things that you have to take that whiny mentality off the table is if you think about what the possible solutions could look like and how you could get there before you start talking to your boss, that it's going to seem like you've thought this out, not like it's the hot potato that you're trying to pass to your boss that says, Hey, I'm burnt
00;23;45;06 - 00;24;06;24
Unknown
out. How are you going to fix it? Look more thought into it so you can go in there proactively and say, and here, here are my recommendations. What do you think? Yeah, absolutely. And you gave me this example earlier on, kind of having your manager recognize that you're burnt out and giving you the option of having a vacation day or a free day.
00;24;07;03 - 00;24;29;12
Unknown
So this also may be very important when it comes to high performers that your manager supervisor can identify you as a high performer and as someone who may not as easily speak up about stress and burnout. And they may have to play a bigger role in kind of offering that help instead of the employee coming to the employer.
00;24;29;26 - 00;25;09;01
Unknown
Absolutely. Yeah. So can you explain what resilience is and how building resilience can help employees cope with work related stress and how to prevent burnout? Are there any strategies or exercises so you can kind of offer up that can help improve resilience? Yeah. So in our change management training that we do, we talk about some visual representations of resilience and we like to use the examples of a willow tree and an old metal trashcan.
00;25;09;01 - 00;25;29;20
Unknown
So think about the kind of trashcan that Oscar the Grouch was. Then we go when there are winds, there are high winds here in Iowa. We've been having a lot of those recently with the spring weather and all of that. Willow trees have a tendency to bend and in the wind and they bounce back to their original shape.
00;25;29;20 - 00;25;53;01
Unknown
Now, they may lose a few branches along the way, but ultimately the willow tree and palm tree actually to both of those trees were designed to be able to bounce back to their original form and not show all of the damage that's occurred to them on the outside. An old metal trash can we think about every time you, you know, hit it with your car or it's fallen over.
00;25;53;01 - 00;26;17;20
Unknown
It shows every single bump and bruise. And resilience is ultimately getting to that point where we're able to come back to center a little more easily and not show every single bump and bruise, because we've been able to find that center more quickly and more easily. Now, it's easier to bounce back when everything's going great about what happens when you're in the middle of burnout.
00;26;17;23 - 00;26;37;11
Unknown
You know, we can definitely become more that old metal trash can in those cases. And so that's why it's so important to to think about what are the things that keep you resilient, what are the things that are going to help you find that center a little bit more easily in making sure that that picture is full in good times?
00;26;37;20 - 00;27;12;03
Unknown
So when a bad time comes along, you have something to actually work from. In that piece. So how can we become willow trees? Yes, that is the question. Yeah. You asked if there are any sort of exercises that you could do. Yeah, there are some different assessments out there that you could take that just kind of see, you know, how comfortable are you with change in particular, What is resilience look like for you and where are your strengths, Where are your weaknesses as it relates to that?
00;27;12;03 - 00;27;36;15
Unknown
And then maybe doing a deeper dive, I'm looking at your team as well. It could be a team exercise that you do some sort of a resilience assessment to say, how does my team bounce back from adversity and what are what are the things that we could do to continue these positive thoughts? I think celebrating wins is and you had mentioned that earlier, too, you know, just with the to do list, but also with your team as well.
00;27;36;28 - 00;27;56;24
Unknown
If you're celebrating wins along the way and it's not only what am I doing wrong, but what am I doing right as well, Those are the things that can really help us build that resilience bucket. Those are great ideas. Now I'm looking for some of your real life stories and examples. I know national money, but who doesn't at this point, right?
00;27;58;09 - 00;28;25;27
Unknown
Could you pick one story that kind of shows someone or a group of individuals who has effectively managed work related stress and burnout and any lessons that you can share from that experience? Absolutely. So again, this is individual right. This is not going to be a one size fits all answer. Are you kind of starting a theme here with all of this about burnout is really individual.
00;28;26;23 - 00;28;52;12
Unknown
I've heard several stories lately, especially post pandemic of people taking a look at their roles and determining either what they like or maybe don't like so much about their roles and assessing if that role is still the right fit for them. At this time in their life. A dear friend who went out on her own as an entrepreneur in 2020, the worst possible year to decide I'm going to be an entrepreneur.
00;28;52;25 - 00;29;16;01
Unknown
And she thought I'll pay for last three years. But burnout was definitely a factor in her choice to return to working for an organization. It's just not the right time in her life for that particular role, and she was excited about the security and the flexibility and organizational role would offer her, as opposed to being the one person who is responsible for everything.
00;29;16;25 - 00;29;46;14
Unknown
So I'm not saying that you need to leave your role in order to overcome work related stress and burnout, not at all, but encourage folks who are burned out to kind of audit what is most important to them right now. That flexibility is the compensation. Is it making a difference in the world? It could be all of these different things, but then assess your current role and what could you be doing differently now You need your supervisor in this conversation.
00;29;46;14 - 00;30;10;12
Unknown
What does that balance look like for you? So I think it's asking the questions to find out what are the things that are going to be the most motivational for you, the most impactful for you? Because ultimately, even if you're working those hard hours, those long hours, if the work that you're doing is fulfilling and rewarding and it makes you want to get out of bed in the morning, then that burnout is going to be alleviated.
00;30;10;25 - 00;30;46;08
Unknown
Absolutely. And I would also just encourage to do those reevaluations throughout your career, even if you have an experience that stress or burnout. Ed, I mean, it's important to always be evaluating, is this the best fit for me? What can I be doing better? What changes can I make? Some Yeah, that's great advice, Michelle But as we do wrap up here, do you have any ways or resources organizations to provide to help its employees work stress or burnout?
00;30;47;09 - 00;31;19;27
Unknown
Absolutely. So open door policy, I think we talk a lot about open door policies, but really showing through action how important that is. Approach liability goes a really, really long way. As a manager, if I feel comfortable talking to you, then when there's an issue, I'm going to come to you much quicker than, you know, trying to hide it, trying to just go through the motions and then having mistakes down the line so that approachability is huge for managers.
00;31;19;27 - 00;31;40;00
Unknown
Check in with your teams, ask them how they're doing. Evette really listen to the answer, not just sort of a perfunctory, you know, how's it going? Oh, yeah. Can you dive right now? Like, really listen to what they're saying and reading you sometimes, not only listening to the words coming out of their mouth, but their nonverbals in their tone too.
00;31;40;00 - 00;32;09;10
Unknown
What are the different things that are adding to that story to get to the bottom of what are they really doing okay? Or could be use a little bit of extra support in the same next step is flexibility. And we're hearing time and time again, especially post-COVID. Flexibility is so huge for so many employees right now, so that you as a manager organization could ask is we're planning to be more flexible, Is it in how the work gets done?
00;32;09;18 - 00;32;28;03
Unknown
There's a lot of different ways that work can get done. Is that how is it when the work it start? Can you be flexible in that hours? Is it where the work gets done too? So we we've seen a lot about, you know, return to the office versus work from home where is the flexibility within all of that?
00;32;30;01 - 00;32;53;00
Unknown
Managers can be really helpful with prioritizing or rebalancing. So if an employee comes to you and says, I am really overwhelmed right now, these are all the things I'm working on, can you help me triage what's going to be the most important right now? Being open to having those conversations too, and not looking at them as failures, saying you're seeing this as a bonus that they.
00;32;53;00 - 00;33;16;01
Unknown
Kendi This was really, really hard for this employee to come to you, probably. So to be able to have those conversations about how to rebalance things as a manager is is really key. And then finally, as you start to recognize the signs of burnout on your team, letting your team know about any sort of employee assistance program, resources that may be available to them.
00;33;16;13 - 00;33;39;09
Unknown
So I think oftentimes we sort of default to, you know, the mental health counseling, which is certainly an aspect of this. But there's also things like financial wellness that people and that goes back to that self-care habit that we were talking about earlier. Right. A lot of these awful offer legal counseling as well. So, you know, is that a resource that could be households for them?
00;33;39;14 - 00;34;09;23
Unknown
We never fully know what's going on in somebody's life. And so to be able to offer the resources that we can can really alleviate some of those burnout symptoms that they may be experiencing in their personal life, making it a little bit easier on their professional life as well. Those are all great resources. Michelle And I would just reiterate that MRA does have a time management class too, so free to go on the website and check that out and sign up and maybe we'll get Michelle as an instructor and as a time.
00;34;09;25 - 00;34;28;13
Unknown
I promise we have a good time with it. Okay, well, that is all the time we have today. So I want to thank you for being on 30 minute Thrive today, Michelle, and really share your knowledge and advice on managing stress and burnout in the workplace. It's definitely an important topic and it's something that it's never going to go away.
00;34;29;07 - 00;34;52;11
Unknown
So Tara was yours. If you liked our chat and topic today, I would encourage you to share this episode. Leave a comment, share with your friend or coworker, leave a review and consider joining MRA if you aren't a member already. We have all the resources needed in the shownotes below. We've included Michelle's bio and LinkedIn profile if you want to get in touch with her.
00;34;53;11 - 00;35;14;27
Unknown
Otherwise, thank you so much for tuning in today and thanks again, Michelle. And we need to tell you this was a blast. Thank you. And we will see you all next week. And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign them to connect for more podcast updates, check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform.
00;35;14;27 - 00;35;24;14
Unknown
And as always, make sure to follow MRA’s 30 minutes Thrive so you don't miss out. Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the HR conversation.

36 min
May 03, 2023 Breaking the Stigma: Normalizing Mental Health Conversations
Description: In this episode, we explore how to break down the stigma surrounding mental health conversations in the workplace. Mental health is a critical aspect of overall well-being, but the topic can still be challenging to discuss. This episode provides actionable strategies for managers and employees to encourage open and honest conversations about mental health.
We speak with industry expert and thought leader, Cheryl Lucas-DeBerry who shares her experiences and insights on how to normalize mental health conversations. We discuss the importance of education and awareness, destigmatizing common mental health conditions, and how to build a culture of support and empathy in the workplace.
Join us as we explore the benefits of normalizing mental health conversations in the workplace, including increased productivity, employee satisfaction, and overall well-being. We hope this episode inspires you to start a conversation about mental health in your workplace and helps you to create a more supportive and compassionate environment.
Resources:
Mental Health Awareness
MRA Membership
About MRA
Let's Connect:
Guest Bio - Cheryl Lucas-DeBerry
Guest LinkedIn Profile - Cheryl Lucas-DeBerry
Host Bio - Sophie Boler
Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler
Transcript:
Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word.
00:00:00:01 - 00:00:03:10
Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive,
00:00:03:10 - 00:00:06:20
your go to podcast for anything and everything HR.
00:00:06:21 - 00:00:09:22
powered by MRA, the Management Association.
00:00:09:23 - 00:00:12:23
Looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR?
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MRA has got you covered.
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We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not.
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I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here.
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Now it's time to thrive.
00:00:23:01 - 00:00:27:07
Hello and welcome to episode number 36 of 30 minute Thrive.
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We're glad you're here, and I'm happy to introduce to you our guest for today.
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And that's Cheryl Lucas-DBerry, and very Cheryl
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is one of our learning and development instructors here at MRA and comes
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with a really strong background with over 30 years of professional experience.
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And currently, Cheryl, you are in the process of getting your degree and
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will be getting licensed and counseling, which is great.
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Yes, Congrats on that.
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Thank you.
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But May is Mental Health Awareness Month.
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So we're really kicking off the month
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with a mental health in the Workplace episode.
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So according to Mental Health America, 21% of adults are experiencing
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a mental illness, and that's equivalent to over 50 million Americans,
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which means a lot of these individuals are bringing that into the workplace, too.
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So what are some of the most common mental
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health conditions that employees may be dealing with?
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And how can we ensure that they feel supported?
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Yeah, Now that's a really good question.
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Mental health is really becoming very prevalent
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and much more known and talked about in the workplace.
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But according to the research, the main ones that people are dealing
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with are depression, anxiety and PTSD, post traumatic stress disorder.
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And that really comes from individuals having to deal
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with violence in the workplace.
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Oh, interesting.
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Hello.
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Well, we recently talked to Kristi Haase on employee engagement.
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So how can you identify whether an employer is disengaged
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or if it's mental health related? Hmm.
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Yeah, I think really, it's kind of paying attention
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to the individual, paying attention to their behavior
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and really looking at the kind of the baseline
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is this behavior something totally different
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than how they have been in the past or is it about the same?
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So when you look at that as a baseline, then you can start to determine
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if there is something else
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that may be going on with this individual, because it's not health,
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not the typical type of behavior that they would exhibit.
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Yeah, I feel like as a manager, that would be kind of difficult to determine.
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Like if your employee isn't as active in the workplace
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or if they are not as engaged like how you can tell if it's
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a personal thing or a mental health thing or they're just disengaged.
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But kind of
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going off of that, how can employers and managers create that culture
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of support and empathy when it comes to these mental health conversations?
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It really is about having those conversations,
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kind of paying attention, asking questions.
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Is this you know, is there something going on and how are you?
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How are you doing today?
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That's a good question.
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How are you doing today?
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And then kind of basing
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their response, basing your response on their response.
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So how do you deal with that?
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And then just being open and saying, I'm here.
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If you want to share something, if you want to talk to someone.
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That's fine, too.
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But just letting them know that that I'm here for you
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and showing that that empathy has the most attached.
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People just need to know. Know that someone care.
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Yeah. I like how you said.
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Then how are you doing today?
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Oh, yeah.
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So how does work life balance also play a role in immense
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stress and burnout?
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It are some things that cause our employees
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to have, you know, depression and anxiety.
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So really organizations just paying attention
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to what do we need to do to create some activities
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even for folks working remotely?
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What are some things that we can do to incorporate into the company culture
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of ensuring that people understand that it's okay to take your vacation time?
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You do need to get up and do stretch breaks.
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You do need to take time for yourself, even if you're working out of your home
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at some point making a determination that I am stopping at this time.
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And separating yourself from that because it's quite easy.
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If your office is down the hall,
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it's quite easy to continue to to work.
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But at some point you end up burning out and then that creates
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less productivity and all kinds of things.
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And then that ultimately affects the individual's
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home life, family life,
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personal lives, all those things, how they interact
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with their manager, how they interact with their coworkers in them.
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Yeah, no, that's great advice. I know
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some of my friends actually have an alarm set
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at like lunchtime where it's like I'm taking my 10 to 20 minute walk right now.
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I'll take a nap or something like that.
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That's great.
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Yeah.
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But you mentioned that mental health is
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being talked about a little bit
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more nowadays and more of an open topic.
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But why do you think mental health
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has been stigmatized in the workplace and what do you think we can do?
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The kind of change that, you know, I think it's been stigmatized
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for so long just because of lack of understanding.
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It was oftentimes
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thought of as, you know, hiding Uncle Joe in the closet or
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that's just, you know, and Agnes investors, how she is.
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But now it's becoming much, much more talked about.
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And often it's not the hush hush as it used to be.
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And so just having people understand
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that mental health is a real thing and organizations understanding
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that mental health is a real thing and what can we do
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to kind of incorporate that into the organizational culture,
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not just let it be a flavor of the day, if you will?
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One of the ways that organization can address the stigma
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around mental illness is really to have those open conversations.
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According to the one HR article I was reading, is that open conversations
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about mental health really help break that taboo
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that often kind of characterized as that particular topic.
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So a culture, instead of promoting a culture
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that is rather hush hush, it really is
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just kind of bringing it out in the open
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that employees feel comfortable talking about it,
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Senior leadership feels comfortable in talking about it,
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and just having people feel like it's okay.
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And using that term.
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Mental health issues is also important.
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And then the mental health can then be spun
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into really focusing on their emotional well-being.
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So organizations can help employees
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move into kind of this safe space
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by having those open discussions around the subject of mental health.
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You want to encourage employees and managers really
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to be open about using the term mental health, and it can be incorporated
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into the company's newsletters to their social media sites
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and then just meeting agendas
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that they can use within the organization, just incorporating
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really into the day to day conversations really help
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further reassure employees that the company
00:08:07:22 - 00:08:11:21
is acknowledging the importance of mental health in the workplace.
00:08:11:21 - 00:08:12:21
Yeah, that's great.
00:08:12:21 - 00:08:16:22
So I think mental health is becoming less stigmatized now
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because of people's attitudes toward it.
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And also they have seen more famous people that have come out to talk
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about their own mental health illness or just talking about mental health
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and particularly so because it is kind of come
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from under the covers, if you will, and more famous
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people are talking about it, then it is becoming less taboo
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in the workplace and organizations are feeling more comfortable
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in having their employees talk about it as well and incorporate it
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into their entire organizational culture.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And how could we promote mental health
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awareness and education in the workplace?
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You know, it's interesting.
00:09:00:05 - 00:09:03:04
Something that I read it said, promote
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emotional well-being versus physical well-being.
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And so many organizations will have, you know,
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opportunities for employees to participate in some kind of physical wellbeing,
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which, you know, challenges water challenges, walking challenges,
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things like that, but also incorporating some emotional well-being.
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What does that mean?
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Is this being able to take a step back from work to do something or fine,
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It might be doing some fun activities with the coworkers or,
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you know, even working remotely, creating those scavenger hunts or
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just creating some fun in the workplace.
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So that helps with that emotional well-being and reducing stress.
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And when stress is reduced, then our mental health is not as prevalent.
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No, I love that.
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I think that's a great idea to promote both physical and emotional. Yes.
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So what role can employer resource groups or other affinity groups
00:10:00:05 - 00:10:03:10
play in creating a more supportive environment as well?
00:10:03:23 - 00:10:09:00
Yeah, with employee resource groups, they are usually a smaller group
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and so people may feel more comfortable in sharing with each other,
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but just creating that space where people will feel comfortable in sharing and
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peer listening groups
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is can be incorporated into the employee resource groups.
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Just that listening that I'm I'm here for you again.
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Most of the times people just want to know that somebody
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hears them and they can feel comfortable in share.
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And in the smaller network of friends, the employee research
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groups are usually individuals that share the same kind of,
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you know, affinity towards a particular topic.
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And so creating those peer listening groups related to mental health,
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because research shows that that vast majority of people have been impacted
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by mental health, whether personally or through a family member or friend.
00:11:02:08 - 00:11:03:04
Oh, absolutely.
00:11:03:04 - 00:11:07:06
I believe I think a lot of people might not talk about mental health, too,
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because they're embarrassed or they feel like they're alone.
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So those groups
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definitely are very helpful, like you said.
00:11:16:05 - 00:11:18:18
But as we kind of close out here,
00:11:18:18 - 00:11:22:21
your training or your learning development instructors, I have to ask what
00:11:23:04 - 00:11:28:02
what resources or trainings you would recommend or that are available
00:11:28:02 - 00:11:31:19
to employers who may be struggling with their mental health?
00:11:31:19 - 00:11:36:05
And how can we kind of make sure that they're aware of these resources?
00:11:36:14 - 00:11:40:18
Yeah, I think some training, which is utilizing
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certainly utilizing your employee assistance program,
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creating some stress reduction types
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of activities within the workplace.
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Also just having
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senior leadership talk about
00:11:56:13 - 00:12:00:00
the mental health and how important that is
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and then that is incorporated into the overall culture
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because individuals want to feel like they can bring their whole selves
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to the workplace and if they can't, then they tend to leave.
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If they don't feel like the organization culture supports
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mental health and with mental well-being
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or emotional well-being, then they will find other opportunities.
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So a way to have organizations do
00:12:25:09 - 00:12:27:23
that is to offer some training around
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mental health, mental wellbeing, and just
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ways that people
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can find a way to unplug, if you will.
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What are some things that we can do as an individual?
00:12:41:00 - 00:12:45:20
What are some things we can do as a group and that organizations will provide
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for the employee at no cost to them or minimal cost to them?
00:12:49:19 - 00:12:50:09
Mm hmm.
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Well, that's a great way to and and of themselves.
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And good advice to anyone.
00:12:54:22 - 00:12:58:22
So thank you for being on 30 minute Thrive today, sharing all of that
00:12:59:07 - 00:13:03:05
advice and knowledge and expertise on mental health in the workplace.
00:13:03:18 - 00:13:06:09
Definitely a topic that's important and something
00:13:06:09 - 00:13:08:06
that it's never going to go away.
00:13:08:06 - 00:13:09:15
So no, it's not.
00:13:09:15 - 00:13:13:09
And Mental Health Month is a good kickoff for that,
00:13:13:12 - 00:13:17:16
but it should be incorporated throughout the entire organizational culture.
00:13:17:16 - 00:13:22:06
So it doesn't come across as just being another flavor of the day
00:13:22:10 - 00:13:26:01
that it is part of the overall culture of the organization.
00:13:26:01 - 00:13:27:15
Absolutely.
00:13:27:15 - 00:13:30:21
Well, to our listeners, if you liked our chat and topic today,
00:13:31:08 - 00:13:34:21
I'd encourage you to share this episode and leave a good review.
00:13:34:22 - 00:13:39:12
Leave a comment and consider joining MRA if you aren't a member already.
00:13:39:21 - 00:13:44:00
We do have all the resources below in the show notes, including Cheryl's
00:13:44:08 - 00:13:47:21
bio and LinkedIn, if you'd like to get in contact with her.
00:13:48:08 - 00:13:50:18
Otherwise, thank you so much for tuning in today.
00:13:51:02 - 00:13:52:08
Thank you again, Cheryl.
00:13:52:08 - 00:13:54:10
Thank you. And we will see you next week.
00:13:54:17 - 00:13:57:11
And that wraps up our content for this episode.
00:13:57:12 - 00:13:59:07
Be sure to reference the show notes
00:13:59:07 - 00:14:02:07
where you can sign up to connect for more podcast updates.
00:14:02:08 - 00:14:06:02
Check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform.
00:14:06:02 - 00:14:11:01
And as always, make sure to follow MRA’s 30 minutes Thrive so you don't miss out.
00:14:11:02 - 00:14:14:01
Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry
00:14:14:01 - 00:14:15:16
on the HR conversation.

15 min
April 26, 2023 Hot on the Hotline: Compliance Requirements for Job Descriptions
Description:
In this episode, we will be discussing the compliance requirements for job postings, a topic that is frequently requested by MRA’s HR Hotline callers.
Ensuring that job postings are compliant with current laws and regulations can be a daunting task, but it's essential to avoid costly legal issues and attract a diverse pool of qualified candidates. We'll cover the key compliance areas that you need to be aware of, including equal employment opportunity, labor laws, and necessary disclosures.
Our expert guest, Nicole Morehouse, Manager, HR Hotline will provide practical advice and insights based on the hotline team's experience helping employers create compliant job postings. She’ll share real-life examples of common compliance pitfalls and how to avoid them, as well as tips for creating inclusive and accessible job postings that attract a diverse talent pool.
Whether you're an HR professional, a hiring manager, or a business owner, this episode will provide you with the knowledge and tools you need to create job postings that comply with current laws and attract the best candidates for your organization.
So, tune in to the 30 minute THRIVE podcast and stay informed on the latest compliance requirements for job postings.
Resources:
MRA's 24/7 HR Hotline
MRA Membership
About MRA
Let's Connect:
Guest Bio - Nicole Morehouse
Guest LinkedIn Profile - Nicole Morehouse
Host Bio - Sophie Boler
Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler
Transcript:
Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word.
00:00:00:01 - 00:00:03:10
Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive,
00:00:03:10 - 00:00:06:20
your go to podcast for anything and everything HR.
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Powered by MRA, the Management Association.
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Looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR?
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MRA has got you covered.
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We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not.
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I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here.
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Now it's time to thrive.
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Hello, everybody, and welcome to episode number 35 of 30 minute Thrive.
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I'm excited to talk about a topic that's called on
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quite frequently on our HR Hotline here at mra.
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And that is job postings.
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So i'm here with Nicole Morehouse.
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She's our hotline manager at MRA.
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And Nicole, you'll be answering a lot of the questions that you hear from
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our members on a daily basis. So.
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Excited to talk to you.
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Think you nice to be here again? Absolutely.
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Well, let's start through why we're talking about job postings,
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because we usually hear about this more from a recruiter side.
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And usually people think of recruiters when you talk about job postings.
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But how do they necessarily fit under the hotline category,
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which is more of a compliance and regulation based topic?
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Right.
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So you brought me here.
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No fun, Nicole, compliance perspective. So.
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All right.
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Sounds good.
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Yeah, we do get some questions on the hotline about job postings.
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A lot of times that stems from,
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you know, certain state requirements are a little more requirements.
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So more commonly is question is, you know, compliance guidance
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when it comes to AP transparency most recently got you a while
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like you just had a big question revolves around pay transparency.
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So do you or should you or can you
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post salary information in your job postings?
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Yeah.
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So back 2021, Colorado
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was first to hit the scene with, hey, employers,
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you know, you have to post if you're not at a job posting out
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and you might hire someone in Colorado, then you have to have the Pay range.
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So since then, several cities and states have joined in on that.
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So if you are posting a job where the candidate might be working
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in any of those locations, there's a good chance
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you either have to put the reach or that you have to have some sort of disclosure
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about the Pay range at some point in the recruitment process.
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Yeah, I feel like that's for a topic that's kind of changed recently
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because I feel like years ago you didn't see even pay ranges
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in job postings and now it's like pretty transparent for sure.
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Yeah, for sure.
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If you're a larger organization,
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you're probably doing that right, you know, because you're open
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to hybrid work and for regions, you're open to remote work every event
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and those sorts of things.
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So if you're a multi state employer, there's a good chance
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you're already used to putting some Pay range information in there already.
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If you're not, get ready for it because there's pending legislation
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to see how these 17 different locations that have that that's growing,
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I think it will be a big thing to be on the lookout for in 2023.
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It's a good catch up.
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So what other rules and regulations do
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employers really need to keep in mind when crafting a job posting?
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Yeah, so I think I mentioned earlier, right?
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If you're a federal contractor, your equal employment opportunity,
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perhaps you have to put some language about, you know, veterans or, you know,
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certainly disabilities and those sorts of things.
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So the Americans with Disabilities
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Act is something to think about when you do a job hosting.
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Other things that you might want to keep an eye out for is any language
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that really creates a barrier between a candidate and you as the employer,
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because using certain language could unintentionally
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create some sort of discriminatory hiring practice.
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I don't think employers go in
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with the intention that they're trying to discriminate against anybody
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for including certain words can unintentionally give the reader
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a perspective about what the employer is looking for.
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Absolutely.
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And this kind of break down
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what you said a little bit, you mentioned inadvertent discrimination.
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So let's kind of talk more about that and what that means.
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So can you kind of give an example of what it is or definition
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of what inadvertent discrimination means when we're talking about job postings?
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Sure. Yeah.
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I mean, it could be a very subtle thing, just a very subtle word choice
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using the word stronger or using the word firm,
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you know,
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those sorts of like words that maybe unintentionally,
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I think at LinkedIn, maybe in 2018 did some sort of survey and
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that could draw meal applicants
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and you unintentionally
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your entire candidate for meal, maybe because of the words that you used
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and the and the job posting and you don't really know that it's
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going to have that sort of impact and in the aftermath of doing that.
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But conversely, you could use the word like soft or compassionate
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and then, you know, is your candidate for female.
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Really?
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That's why I think, yeah, I wouldn't think about using those words
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or that that would cause discrimination bias.
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You're coming, right?
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The bigger ones are probably going to be more like recent college graduates
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or green or, you know, entry level sometimes can imply that you're looking
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for younger workers
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of the Equal Opportunity Commission specifically points out like,
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hey, employers
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don't use recent college graduates and there is some recent case law, Right.
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You know that candidates are saying that they were discriminated
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against because of their age.
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Well, the older. Yeah, Yeah. Well, for sure.
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Well, we're kind of talking before the podcast, but they always recommend
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putting some, like pizzazz or sizzle into your job description.
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So what are some suggestions so that the Post doesn't
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lead to that inadvertent discrimination with that pizzazz?
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Sure. Yeah, I've been on that and some things, right?
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I've been the recruiter putting a job posting out there and, you know, kind of,
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you know, trying to take the job description and then put it in
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kind of a marketing language. Right.
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Like trying to appeal to people and get people to read it
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and to then apply it and sell your company.
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I would just be very careful with word choice that has become a highly litigious
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sort of environment when it comes to these job postings and discrimination.
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And again, it's probably inadvertent, but be very, very careful about your
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word choice.
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Like I said before, you know,
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like saying things that are going to specifically appeal to a young person
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or to, you know, a person of any specific group,
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male, female or any individual group,
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you want it to be a posting that will appeal to most everyone.
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And I know that's challenging because
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it's in the eyes of the reader, right?
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You know, so how are how are you?
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You know, how you have to look at it from their lens if you're a candidate?
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Yeah, that kind of just like reminds me of putting emojis in like a job posting.
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Like, does that create some sort of inadvertent discrimination?
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Because usually younger folks use those emojis?
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I don't know.
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Like, it's a little complicated, I'm sure, because I think that there is, you know,
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some, you know, literature out there that disparages emojis
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and professional business writing right now, emails or letters
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and those sorts of things, because emojis
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have a picture, right?
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So that picture could be interpreted by one age group different
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than in another age group.
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So I have a, you know, 20 something year old son.
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If I share an emoji with him, it might mean a completely different thing.
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But I think it.
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And so yeah, so the thing with job posting. Yes.
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Oh, that's good.
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Well, do you have any advice for employers on staying up to date
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with all these rules, job postings and regulations?
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Right.
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So if you're not fortunate to have an employment attorney
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at your disposal, 24 seven you do want to rely on knowledgeable resources.
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I think the h.r. Advisor hotline
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certainly is a really, really good option.
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We really are going to be very quick to find the because there's local law.
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It's not just that it's cities within states.
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Some of my work, you know, there's like three cities
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within the state of new york that has some sort of transparency law.
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So we're going to be very quick to be able to find, you know, the location.
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You know,
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you're posting a job like where are you posting it?
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Are you intending attracting remote workers?
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And, you know, so there's a lot of factors to consider before you finalize
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whether or not you include pay information, for example.
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So I guess I'm curious to know some of the common mistakes
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that employers also make when creating these job postings,
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and that may put them at risk for noncompliance.
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So how can employers really avoid
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creating a job posting that doesn't comply with compliance?
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I'm not sure what that could be.
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A whole other kind of.
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Yeah, that's a great question.
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I don't know that I really could sum that up
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very easily.
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But, you know,
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anything that you run into in the employment
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arena can also apply to job postings.
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So the things, things that you think about for your current employees,
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you also want to think about in your job postings.
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So a lot of it has to do with,
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you know, fair chance at
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employment, you know, and for your chance at a competitive rate.
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And those are things that employers are thinking about
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for their current employees.
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So just spin it from the perspective of a candidate, you know,
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But then there's,
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you know, things that maybe employers have been putting in job postings
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previously that they didn't really realized were prohibited,
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like the Department of Justice, for example, in 2022 when after
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several companies for putting language about immigration status
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in the job posting and the civil penalties that, you know, got close to $1,000,000.
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Yeah.
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You know, and so it's the things that you
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traditionally think about
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and in the employment sense,
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just apply that to your candidate
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when you gave some examples of this prior.
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But do you have any specific keywords that you want to mention
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to absolutely avoid in job postings?
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Not absolutely.
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But you might want to consider quite word.
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Where do I start?
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I mean, I think I'm just going to go back to the previous example about the easiest
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one is, you know, a younger worker.
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You know, you don't want to say anything about like that.
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You want like young recent college graduate, green.
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Those all imply that if you were not
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of a certain age or young age,
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that you're not going to be qualified for the position.
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Certainly job descriptions have to describe the duties
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and the requirements in it in a way that's defendable.
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Right. You know, so even college
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degrees,
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why is it required for the position?
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And you could be unintentionally discriminating
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against a group of individuals that largely don't have college degrees
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for make sure if you put a college degree in there
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that you have a defendable reason why that's a selective criteria.
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Yeah.
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So it would be really hard to just throw in a couple of things other than that,
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you'll have an easy example.
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But you know, those are some other right, you know, kind of examples,
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like all those are good examples to keep in mind.
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So as we wrap up here, just want to emphasize resources
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that employers have available to them on job posting compliance.
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So if you want to reiterate where they can find that resource.
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Yeah.
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I mean, if you don't want to call a hotline advisor,
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I don't know why you wouldn't want to, but if you don't want to call a hotline
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advisor, then you certainly, you know, going straight to the location
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covered like that gov website.
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Right.
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You know, so if you're hiring in San Francisco,
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go check out San Francisco's employment laws, right?
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Make sure you're very knowledgeable.
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Our members also have access to some online tools
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that are more robust or comprehensive.
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And so, yeah, so that's something that if you don't know how to use those tools
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and you remember,
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you can call the hotline
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and we'll walk you through and then you can use them forever more.
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So there are some tools at your disposal, but you know, hotline
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the tools that you have through your membership
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and then make sure you actually go wherever you're recruiting.
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So if you have a job hosting that, apply, you're going to you're open
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to remote work anywhere, right?
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That's pretty overwhelming because that means that you have to check
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every city and every state to make sure you're in compliance.
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So that's why I think if you don't have an attorney that's driving decisions
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for you, you know, contacting the hotline, using the resources
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that you have through your membership is probably the best deal around.
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Yeah, I second that, I'm calling the hotline.
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I hope it's great.
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Well, I want to thank you for being on 30 minute Thrive today and sharing
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all of that advice and good knowledge to our members and listeners today.
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So to our listeners, if you like this chat in this topic,
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I would just encourage you to like the episode, leave a comment,
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share it out with your friends and your coworkers, and consider
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joining MRA, If you aren't a member already,
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like Nicole said, We have all the resources you need
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and we have resources in the show notes below, so take a look at those.
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Otherwise, we have Nicole's bio and her LinkedIn profile
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on the show notes so you can get in touch with her easily there.
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But thank you for tuning in today.
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And thanks again, Nicole.
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And we will see you next week.
00:14:03:17 - 00:14:06:11
And that wraps up our content for this episode.
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Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign them to connect.
00:14:09:16 - 00:14:11:08
For more podcast updates,
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check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform.
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And as always, make sure to follow MRA’s 30 minutes Thrive so you don't miss out.
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Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry
00:14:23:01 - 00:14:24:15
on the HR conversation.

15 min
April 19, 2023 Talent Report: Talent Strategies for Retention
Description: In this episode, we’ll explore the April edition of MRA's monthly Talent Report!
We’ll hear from Jim Morgan, Vice President of Workforce Strategies, on best practices regarding internships and cross-departmental training, uncover C-Suite priorities and top creative HR strategies, learn how to improve employee productivity, and more!
Resources:
Talent Report+ Webinar Series
MRA Membership
About MRA
Let's Connect:
Guest Bio - Jim Morgan
Guest LinkedIn Profile - Jim Morgan
Host Bio - Sophie Boler
Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler
Transcript:
Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word.
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Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive,
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your go to podcast for anything and everything HR.
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Powered by MRA, the Management Association.
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Looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR?MRA has got you
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covered.
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We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not.
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I'm your host, Sophie Boler and we are so glad you're here.
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Now it's time to thrive.
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Hello, everybody, and welcome to this episode of 30 Minute Thrive.
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We're happy you're here, and I'm excited to introduce to our guests for today.
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And that's Jim Morgan.
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And we're going to be talking about the latest information on all things
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talent related for April's edition of MRA’s Talent Report.
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So if you aren't familiar with the monthly report,
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Jim Morgan, our vice president of Workforce Strategies,
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really gives an up to the minute review of what's going on in the world of business
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with an emphasis on talent, which is based on input from CEOs, CFOs
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and HR leaders from MRA's 3000 plus member companies.
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Thousand roundtable participants and subject matter experts.
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So thank you for joining us on the podcast today, Jim.
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Great to be back again.
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Well, let's really start off
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by talking about what's happening in the recruiting and retention world.
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So I know that you really emphasize retention
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and retention strategies in this month's report.
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So what are you really seeing here?
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I'd say one of the most interesting things that we're starting to see is,
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you know, historically companies have been pretty protective of their employees.
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And then even within a company, managers are pretty protective of their employees.
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So, you know, if I report to you and I say, Hey, Sophie,
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I'd like to go work in this other department,
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you're probably thinking, I don't want you to go work in the other department.
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It took me five years to train you,
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and all this time, you know, I don't want to have to go replace you.
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And companies are starting to take a little bit
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bigger picture
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view of that with their hiring managers and their supervisors.
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That if the goal is to keep me and I want to go try something else,
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let me go try something else, because at least I'm still working in the company
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and I'm still available to you as a talent, provided
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you think I'm worthwhile employee and you want to keep me.
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And so we're seeing more companies emphasize with their employees
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and do a little bit more of a sales job to say, here are the openings we have
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at the organization.
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And so you're starting to see people that maybe were on the facility
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floor saying, hey, I'd like to work in customer service or a machinist
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that now wants to go out on the road and fix things somewhere else.
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And as companies are telling these stories and as I hear them,
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you're sort of like, well, you know, does it always work?
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And for the most part, they're like, you know, if it works, it's fantastic.
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They're happy.
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And if it doesn't work, they go back to where they were before.
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They have a greater appreciation for wherever it is that they went,
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and they're still talking about it with the other people.
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So, for example, one company had the person on the facility floor.
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They wanted to do customer service and after about two weeks he was like,
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This is not for me. I want to be back there.
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I want to be fixing stuff, making stuff, doing things and not talking to people.
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So he went back and did they invest some time in his training?
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Yes, But he got to see a little bit more of the organization.
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He's happy.
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He likes what he's doing even more, having had to see something else.
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So I think one of the new things we're seeing is the goal
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is to keep them in the organization and we can keep them in the organization.
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We should be willing to let them have a variety
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of different types of experiences so that that's sort of a new one
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as companies really try to hang on to the best people that they've got.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And just kind of going back to talking about internships.
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I interned at
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Emory a couple of years ago, and I would just emphasize a point
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on really just being introduced to each department.
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That was kind of a big aspect that made my internship so meaningful
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and successful was being introduced to each department and just getting
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a better idea of the company as a whole instead of just being kind of submerged
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in marketing team for the whole summer, I was able to see
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what other leaders were doing and what other kinds of businesses,
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how they work, and that just gave me a better picture
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of the company as a whole, which helped in my internship a lot.
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And then I would just add another aspect
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that I loved about the internship was just
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being involved with the senior team as well
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and being able to show them the work that I did throughout the summer
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and just kind of having the opportunity to have open camera session with them
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just made my work more meaningful, knowing that, Hey,
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the senior team is involved and cares about what I'm doing to.
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There's plenty of other things
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I can mention, but I would say those were very impactful
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for me on my end and making it enjoyable and successful at the same time.
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Yeah, and I would say, you know, if someone were to say, well,
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how do I build
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a successful internship program, I think you just, you know, good for us.
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But I think you just hit on some of the ones
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that it really it's access to people, you know, whether that's
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the vice president or the C-suite or whatever it is, It's variety,
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you know, like you just got done describing
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about having the opportunity to go to different departments.
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I saw the list of ideas for projects that we gave you before you started.
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I think not being bored is another big one where it's like,
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I can see where I'm digging into something.
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I actually get, you know,
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to work on projects to lead a team to do those different things.
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Those are really what makes those internship
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experiences even even better.
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And so, you know, we're really seeing now what you just described
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both in internships and in onboarding, where, you know, companies
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from a best practice point of view will rotate people through that.
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That's just like you might have come
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to our insurance company because you wanted to be in an actuary
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or we're going to spend the first six months or year with you spending a month
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in benefits, a month as an actuary, a month in customer service,
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a month in sales, and let you see the whole organization because
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maybe actuary isn't what you want to do for the rest of your life.
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And now we've exposed you to some different things.
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So making that experience, one that I think you just described, especially
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with a internship, apprenticeship co-op, whatever it might be,
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that is an incredible retention tool,
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whether it's trying to sell an intern like you to continue to work with us
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or even a new employee who's, you know,
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maybe trying to spread their wings a little bit and look around
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any other types of trends you're seeing here.
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And I know on your short report you had
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the idea that mentors play
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a big role in internships and emerging leaders and stuff like that.
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So I think that's also a good point to touch on.
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Just having that personal weigh in on When you first start at a company
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or maybe having a mentor in various different departments,
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like you said, is there anything else you want to touch on?
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Yeah, And I think we you know, we're seeing mentors that traditional
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this is the person I can get advice from and things like that.
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We're seeing companies also maybe add a buddy
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who may not have the experience and you know the long in the tooth person
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who's been there forever and knows everything,
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but they're the friend who can just say, be careful
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when you're going to this meeting,
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because here's what usually happens or here's the history on that.
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Just to give you a heads up, that becomes another
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really important person in that person's career.
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And you're seeing companies now look at you walked into the marketing
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department at Mirror
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that were saying, all right, six or seven other people in the marketing department.
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Part of your job is to make sure Sophie has a really good experience
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here for the next three months.
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So your job also is check in on her, ask her how she's doing,
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make sure she's got projects, make sure she's happy.
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And so all of those things really just, you know, surrounding Sophie, the intern
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with a buddy, a mentor and a team,
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that makes a huge difference in terms of what your experience is like.
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And, you know, in those three or four months that you spent here.
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Absolutely.
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Another topic I'd like to dive into is your talent thinking section.
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So this month you talked about being cared for at work
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and how that affects employee productivity, loyalty and retention.
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So can you expand on your findings there?
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Yeah, this one has been pretty interesting too, as you're talking to people.
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Part of it is pandemic.
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Part of it is the influx of younger workers.
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But companies are starting to really understand
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what they're missing out on that wanting the stealth
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of belonging in walking into a remote workplace,
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a hybrid workplace, and not, you know, not going to make an argument
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to say which one's right and which one's wrong.
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But if it's a first job for someone and they're walking in
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and the mentor isn't there all the time or the team isn't there all the time,
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there's a little bit of isolation, I think, that that's going on.
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And, you know, people who are onboarded without ever meeting people in person
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and have worked there for six months and still haven't met their boss in person.
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Those are really conscious efforts now by companies to say
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this is how we're going to operate because we have to be remote
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in order to attract talent.
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But we're also attracting talent for the first time.
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And do they feel like they've got a support network?
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Do they feel like they've got people to go to
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Because a buddy in person who can take you out
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for lunch is different than a buddy that you're setting up A Zoom call
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with and hoping you can talk to them for 15 or 20 minutes.
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You're not you're not
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having the opportunity to experience the same things at the same time,
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see the same things at the same time, and you know that.
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Do I have a friend at work?
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Do I have a buddy and a mentor and work to have the person that's my my real go to?
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That's really becoming the issue
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with remote workplaces,
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maybe people that are on some days off, others that how do we make that connection
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and we have to do it purposefully because it's not just going to happen
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because everybody's in the office and we bump into each other now.
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So again, that that becomes another human
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resources hiring manager team thing that says, all right,
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if is going
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to be here and she may not see everybody all the time.
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How do we make the connections?
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How do we consciously
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get everybody together or have an outing or build project teams
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that are cutting across so that people do have a chance to feel like?
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I know people now, they know me, they like me.
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We can do things. We share common interests.
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That all adds to the experience
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at work as well, for sure, and kind of going off of that.
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Talking about getting everybody together and talking.
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You also mentioned conversations, starting spaces in the town or so.
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Can you give some examples
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of what this means and what companies are doing with this?
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Yeah, you know, and I think this is a good follow up to the last one that
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if everybody's not here and you don't have as many bump into each others
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and you don't have as many in person,
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you know,
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when you think of all the in-person meetings,
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if you're one of the first people there and somebody else is there
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early, we'll strike up a conversation about something, you know,
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and you'll learn something or somebody will hang around afterwards.
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So we don't have those. So how do we
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create these places where people are going to sit there
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for a couple of minutes and have to have a conversation?
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And so is that over a ping pong table or a foosball table where.
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All right, let's both take 5 minutes. We'll have a little game.
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And while we're playing, we'll learn something about each other.
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A company's got a garden out back and they've got a gardening group
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now that gets together on their lunch hour before work.
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And so while they're gardening, they're learning from each other.
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A company that just sets up puzzles in some of their break rooms,
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they're just that way.
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You sit in an area, you're
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walking by to put a couple of pieces in and you're there for five or 6 minutes.
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You're going to strike up a
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you know, you're going to find out who the other puzzle lovers are.
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And so you're going to have that to talk about.
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So they're just they're trying to create places where
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there's a little bit of lingering to maybe replace some of the
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bumping into each other water cooler meeting type things that they want
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to encourage folks to know each other and get to know each other.
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And so that means you might have to
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consciously say, how do we get people to stop somewhere for a couple of minutes
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and actually talk to each other?
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And that it sounds kind of crazy, but you can also see how some of these things
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work where it's like, if I see a puzzle, I'm stopping to make a couple of pieces.
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And if you're there doing it too, I mean, hey, how was your weekend?
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What are you doing? What's up?
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Nice day to day. Where are you going to go?
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Do? And I hopefully that just creates a little more camaraderie in the office.
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Yeah.
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No, I was going to say, I love that idea and I love that concept of doing that.
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I know I have a
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friend at work that where they do kind of a game day Monday,
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where one of their rooms is kind of filled with the puzzles and card games,
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and each Monday they have like a 15 minute card game kind of competition.
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And so everybody in the room
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kind of starts off their week in a fun way.
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And I'm sure there's conversations going on, too.
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So, yeah, we we had another couple that just had a huge whiteboard in their
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in their staff cafeteria lounge lunch room
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and people just put a question up there each day that.
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Who's your favorite Disney character?
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And people start drawing pictures of people and they put theirs up there.
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What was your first car?
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And oh, my first car was a Ford Pinto and it's always a deal.
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Those cars used to explode. Yeah.
00:13:48:06 - 00:13:51:02
And they just, you know, even if it's a conversation on a whiteboard
00:13:51:07 - 00:13:54:17
where you start, who is a car person, who's a Disney person, who's a
00:13:54:18 - 00:13:55:14
whatever person?
00:13:55:14 - 00:13:56:10
And again,
00:13:56:10 - 00:13:59:08
you've just created more opportunities for people to share common interests.
00:14:00:00 - 00:14:03:05
I've seen that, too, and I think the whiteboards are fun idea.
00:14:05:00 - 00:14:07:16
The kind of switching gears here and talking more about now
00:14:07:19 - 00:14:10:20
C-suite level, what are leaders up to now?
00:14:12:02 - 00:14:16:10
We've talked about this I know before, but the visibility of the C-suite people
00:14:16:10 - 00:14:20:10
of being out on the floor, making the rounds through the office,
00:14:20:18 - 00:14:23:14
knowing whose birthday it is, whose anniversary it is,
00:14:24:00 - 00:14:27:05
it's really become a priority and part of a day that even if I,
00:14:27:05 - 00:14:31:05
as the CEO, CFO, Arrow, whatever things I got
00:14:32:18 - 00:14:35:15
to and then walk through the facility,
00:14:36:05 - 00:14:39:00
they're really starting to see that I'm going to pick up
00:14:39:00 - 00:14:42:01
at least two or three tidbits of information while I'm out there.
00:14:42:09 - 00:14:44:20
I'm going to be seen as more approachable.
00:14:44:20 - 00:14:46:14
I'm not behind, not down this hallway.
00:14:46:14 - 00:14:50:09
And in my day, in my office with the door closed, I'm part of this.
00:14:50:15 - 00:14:52:08
I can ask questions of people.
00:14:52:08 - 00:14:53:22
I can stop it
00:14:53:22 - 00:14:56:16
at one of the cells on the factory floor and say,
00:14:57:00 - 00:14:59:08
What do you see and what's happening? What's going on?
00:14:59:14 - 00:15:02:18
And I probably feel unvarnished truth from people.
00:15:03:02 - 00:15:05:20
So the visibility of people knowing that they can talk to me
00:15:06:02 - 00:15:08:21
and maybe learning some things along the way,
00:15:10:03 - 00:15:12:07
that one has really gotten people's attention and,
00:15:12:15 - 00:15:15:07
you know, to the point where they'll put it on their calendar at 10:00
00:15:15:07 - 00:15:17:14
am, going for a ten minute walk through the place,
00:15:17:14 - 00:15:19:22
and they're going to know they're going to see me.
00:15:19:22 - 00:15:20:22
And we had this conversation
00:15:20:22 - 00:15:23:17
with the fire department, too, which was interesting because
00:15:24:17 - 00:15:28:04
so many people thought, oh, my gosh, if I was walking around, what's going on?
00:15:28:04 - 00:15:32:00
And, you know, they're standing outside my desk, does that mean I'm being fired?
00:15:32:00 - 00:15:34:03
What are they doing on the facility floor?
00:15:34:13 - 00:15:35:03
And the H.R.
00:15:35:03 - 00:15:38:02
departments are starting to realize that we have to be out there more often.
00:15:38:02 - 00:15:41:12
So when we are out there, people aren't freaking out thinking,
00:15:41:16 - 00:15:45:03
oh, my gosh, 50 people must be like, You let go because I was out here.
00:15:45:11 - 00:15:48:08
No, they're out there because are just trying to see what's happening
00:15:48:08 - 00:15:52:09
and so being conscious about let's make sure they know we're here.
00:15:52:09 - 00:15:52:15
You know,
00:15:52:15 - 00:15:56:13
we're not just back there doing forms or making decisions were part of the group.
00:15:56:13 - 00:16:00:21
So a lot more visibility both from the C-suite and from the H.R.
00:16:00:22 - 00:16:01:10
folks.
00:16:02:19 - 00:16:05:05
Lots of discussions around chat
00:16:05:23 - 00:16:09:03
and artificial intelligence and what do you do with that?
00:16:09:10 - 00:16:12:18
And the range is everywhere from shut it down
00:16:13:04 - 00:16:15:18
to, well, let's embrace it and see what's going to happen.
00:16:16:04 - 00:16:19:18
And it's really interesting as companies are starting to experience it
00:16:21:04 - 00:16:23:08
because it can do so much,
00:16:23:17 - 00:16:26:16
but on its own it probably can also be dangerous.
00:16:26:16 - 00:16:28:08
Like everything else.
00:16:28:08 - 00:16:30:09
And so companies are trying to figure out
00:16:30:09 - 00:16:35:03
how do we use that artificial intelligence to make what we write
00:16:35:03 - 00:16:39:01
make our content better, but not just say, well,
00:16:39:01 - 00:16:46:02
if I just push the button that says create a content piece on FMLA in Illinois,
00:16:46:10 - 00:16:47:13
and I just expected to
00:16:47:13 - 00:16:51:00
give me everything and say, All right, send that out to our 3000 members,
00:16:51:18 - 00:16:53:22
That's, you know, you're getting a little risky there.
00:16:53:22 - 00:16:57:02
And in some cases, there are people who get a little lazy there who just say,
00:16:57:08 - 00:16:59:15
Oh, well, there it is. All I've got to do is turn around and send it out.
00:17:00:15 - 00:17:04:00
But if you use it for, hey, I'm trying to write this marketing piece
00:17:04:00 - 00:17:09:03
for whatever it is, and I can talk about these are that these are what it does.
00:17:09:03 - 00:17:10:14
This is why it's good for us.
00:17:10:14 - 00:17:12:07
And I can put in some questions.
00:17:12:07 - 00:17:15:02
I might be able to get back some things that like, Hey, part of
00:17:15:02 - 00:17:18:07
that is really good or how does that line up with what I wrote
00:17:18:07 - 00:17:22:01
and are we on the same page and are people expecting the same things?
00:17:22:19 - 00:17:24:19
So right now I think it's okay.
00:17:24:19 - 00:17:28:00
And let's fill this out where, you know, where do we weigh in?
00:17:28:00 - 00:17:30:04
What's the good, what's the bad?
00:17:30:04 - 00:17:32:16
But I think like everything else with technology, it's
00:17:32:16 - 00:17:37:09
not perfect on its own, but it's got some real pluses.
00:17:37:14 - 00:17:40:16
And how do we as an organization try to figure some of that out so
00:17:41:04 - 00:17:43:16
that one is on people's minds and they're trying to figure out where
00:17:43:16 - 00:17:46:07
does that fit into everything that we do at our organization.
00:17:46:19 - 00:17:49:19
Now, we just launched a LinkedIn poll on that.
00:17:49:19 - 00:17:51:06
Actually, you
00:17:52:10 - 00:17:53:13
it's so hard
00:17:54:19 - 00:17:57:00
and it's just interesting to see,
00:17:57:00 - 00:18:00:12
you know, like what companies are are using it as a tool.
00:18:00:12 - 00:18:03:04
Some companies haven't even heard of it yet. And
00:18:04:04 - 00:18:06:16
so, yeah, we're kind of digging around with that.
00:18:06:19 - 00:18:08:15
Yeah, that's good.
00:18:08:16 - 00:18:10:14
But how about anything else?
00:18:10:14 - 00:18:11:21
Technology wise?
00:18:11:21 - 00:18:14:21
I know you touched on cyber security plans.
00:18:15:03 - 00:18:18:01
Yeah, we had a couple of roundtables and brought in some people
00:18:18:01 - 00:18:20:10
to talk about cybersecurity.
00:18:21:08 - 00:18:24:07
That's top of mind for everyone, you know, And everyone's going to,
00:18:24:08 - 00:18:24:16
you know,
00:18:24:16 - 00:18:26:01
multiple authorization
00:18:26:01 - 00:18:29:22
to make sure that, you know, we we've got some checks and balances in place.
00:18:29:22 - 00:18:33:09
But so much of it, as you you know, there's a lot that can be done,
00:18:33:15 - 00:18:37:06
but so much of it is just the blocking and tackling and your
00:18:37:19 - 00:18:42:20
your people being vigilant around, you know, update your computer.
00:18:42:21 - 00:18:46:22
So everything is you know, we've got all the patches that are supposed to be there.
00:18:47:11 - 00:18:51:15
We don't just use your last name or your birthday as your password.
00:18:51:15 - 00:18:54:02
That's probably one of the first, you know, your dog's name.
00:18:54:07 - 00:18:57:22
All those things that you commonly get asked those your security questions,
00:18:58:08 - 00:19:01:12
you know, just be a little bit smarter than that, but smarter than that.
00:19:01:22 - 00:19:04:07
Don't use the public life wi fi.
00:19:04:07 - 00:19:05:12
Use your VPN.
00:19:05:12 - 00:19:09:00
So you've got that secure connection at your workplace.
00:19:09:09 - 00:19:13:11
Don't just open stuff, you know, look at it, see what that email address
00:19:13:11 - 00:19:15:13
looks like. Are there Misspellings.
00:19:16:01 - 00:19:18:17
So much of it is just an education of our folks
00:19:18:17 - 00:19:22:12
to just say she's done, don't do dumb things, you know,
00:19:23:13 - 00:19:24:13
And then some of it is, you
00:19:24:13 - 00:19:28:04
know, as company wide where, okay, we've got to do some training.
00:19:28:09 - 00:19:31:08
We've got to make sure our i.t Department is on top of things.
00:19:31:15 - 00:19:36:01
We've got to make sure we've got a good cyber security insurance plan.
00:19:36:21 - 00:19:38:21
We've got to test our incident report.
00:19:38:21 - 00:19:40:18
Let's pretend something happens.
00:19:40:18 - 00:19:43:02
What gets shut down? Where do we go?
00:19:43:02 - 00:19:44:11
You know, how do we get our backup?
00:19:44:11 - 00:19:47:20
Is our backup protected so that whoever the bad actors are, don't
00:19:48:05 - 00:19:50:18
destroy our backup and our current data.
00:19:51:04 - 00:19:54:05
So again, it's one of those where life is,
00:19:54:12 - 00:19:57:15
you know, falling back on the CTO to say, what's the plan?
00:19:57:15 - 00:19:59:03
What are we doing? What's happening?
00:19:59:03 - 00:20:03:12
But so much of it is it's going to get in because somebody got lazy
00:20:03:12 - 00:20:06:18
or somebody did something silly and said, Well, this looks okay.
00:20:06:18 - 00:20:08:09
I think I'll click on it.
00:20:08:09 - 00:20:09:07
And the next thing you know,
00:20:09:07 - 00:20:11:11
there's something in your system and we're off and running.
00:20:11:11 - 00:20:14:17
So training of employees to make sure that they're
00:20:15:12 - 00:20:19:09
following the rules and yep, I hate having to log in every time I go
00:20:19:09 - 00:20:23:12
someplace and I hate having to do this, you know, multi-factor authorization
00:20:23:12 - 00:20:24:08
and all the rest of it.
00:20:24:08 - 00:20:26:17
But there's a reason for it.
00:20:26:17 - 00:20:29:19
And I think people are starting to realize that pretty good reasons.
00:20:30:07 - 00:20:32:18
Well, and you can make some of it kind of fun.
00:20:32:18 - 00:20:36:13
Like I know here at Emory, we do the phishing alerts
00:20:36:13 - 00:20:38:09
where you have to kind of report
00:20:38:09 - 00:20:42:17
if you think an email is a phishing, a spam email, and if you get it right,
00:20:42:17 - 00:20:47:13
you have all this confetti that possible that exactly you can make it fun.
00:20:47:20 - 00:20:50:03
And if you get it wrong, then you've got to go through a class.
00:20:50:07 - 00:20:52:17
Exactly why you should have known better.
00:20:52:23 - 00:20:57:11
Yeah, but how about some of the top creative h.r.
00:20:57:12 - 00:20:59:06
Strategies that you've been seeing?
00:21:00:07 - 00:21:03:10
Get a handful of these this month.
00:21:03:10 - 00:21:07:00
You know, on the candidate experience, you know, people are getting
00:21:07:00 - 00:21:09:23
they're feeling a little bit better about finding candidates.
00:21:09:23 - 00:21:11:03
It's still not.
00:21:11:03 - 00:21:14:07
Oh, we had 100 employees of 100 people are applying.
00:21:14:07 - 00:21:15:09
We'll pick the best five.
00:21:15:09 - 00:21:17:21
We're not anywhere near that,
00:21:17:21 - 00:21:21:12
but we're getting some better candidates and companies and hiring managers, I think
00:21:21:12 - 00:21:26:10
are starting to realize that we may not get the 72 credentials that we asked for.
00:21:26:16 - 00:21:30:05
But if we've got somebody with a good attitude, that's got to work
00:21:30:05 - 00:21:32:09
ethic, that's got a little bit of experience,
00:21:32:09 - 00:21:35:04
that gets what it is that we're trying to do,
00:21:35:21 - 00:21:37:01
we're going to go with them,
00:21:37:01 - 00:21:39:15
you know, and we can train them up on some other things.
00:21:39:15 - 00:21:41:23
And so i think h.r.
00:21:41:23 - 00:21:43:02
Departments are really
00:21:43:02 - 00:21:46:17
helping to educate their supervisors and their hiring managers.
00:21:46:23 - 00:21:49:06
Look, you may not get everything, but if you get a good person
00:21:49:06 - 00:21:51:10
who's going to work hard, we're going to get there.
00:21:51:15 - 00:21:52:19
So i'm not going to worry so much
00:21:52:19 - 00:21:55:07
that they may not have these six other things you asked for.
00:21:55:07 - 00:21:57:05
We can, we can teach those.
00:21:57:05 - 00:22:03:02
So people are really looking for for fit and then sort of teaching the rest of it.
00:22:04:01 - 00:22:06:10
Onboarding we've been talking about forever.
00:22:07:09 - 00:22:10:08
But really talks about getting team support,
00:22:10:12 - 00:22:13:20
getting the body, getting the mentor and approaching
00:22:13:20 - 00:22:19:08
onboarding from a fun point of view versus the let's cram all this stuff in there
00:22:19:08 - 00:22:23:18
as fast as we possibly can and make them do all this stuff in a day or two.
00:22:24:04 - 00:22:26:16
Let's, you know, they don't need it all in three days.
00:22:26:16 - 00:22:29:06
Let's spread it out, make this a little bit more enjoyable
00:22:29:18 - 00:22:33:23
and let's show them what the whole first 90 days maybe looks like.
00:22:34:11 - 00:22:37:17
So you come in the first day and we say, Here's our finances
00:22:37:17 - 00:22:39:18
and this is what we do and this is how we budget and whatever.
00:22:39:18 - 00:22:44:02
And you leave there thinking, Holy Moses, I'm not sure I held on to any of that.
00:22:44:11 - 00:22:47:23
But then you look at your 90 day onboarding, you use the are thank goodness
00:22:47:23 - 00:22:51:00
in two weeks I sort of get a primer on our finances
00:22:51:05 - 00:22:54:02
and I get another thing three weeks later on, whatever.
00:22:54:10 - 00:22:57:12
Now I'm not in a grandma panic about, oh my gosh,
00:22:57:12 - 00:22:59:07
I hope I can remember all these people name
00:22:59:07 - 00:23:02:23
I can look at and be like, Oh good, I get to be with them again later on.
00:23:02:23 - 00:23:04:22
So people are taking a very strategic approach
00:23:04:22 - 00:23:08:02
to their onboarding and saying, What does the whole process look like?
00:23:08:02 - 00:23:09:10
So the candidate
00:23:09:10 - 00:23:12:18
doesn't show up each day wondering, okay, what am I going to have to do today?
00:23:13:03 - 00:23:17:07
They see what's going to happen and that makes them a little bit more at ease.
00:23:17:21 - 00:23:21:12
And then the emerging leaders again,
00:23:22:13 - 00:23:23:11
making sure that
00:23:23:11 - 00:23:26:22
those people are being identified and good criteria
00:23:27:05 - 00:23:30:21
with a game plan in place, that when I tell you, Sophie, congratulations,
00:23:30:21 - 00:23:33:15
you're one of our emerging leaders, one of our high potentials,
00:23:33:22 - 00:23:37:17
I can then follow that up and say, you've shown these characteristics.
00:23:37:21 - 00:23:39:10
This is what we're going to do with you.
00:23:39:10 - 00:23:41:01
Here's the training we're going to provide.
00:23:41:01 - 00:23:44:05
Here's the career path that we're trying to put in place for you.
00:23:44:10 - 00:23:46:23
Here are some opportunities that you're going to get now.
00:23:47:06 - 00:23:49:17
And it's not just, hey, when you go, you're an emerging leader.
00:23:49:22 - 00:23:51:13
Okay, great. What does that mean?
00:23:51:13 - 00:23:54:18
But it's something that you're like, okay, I've been identified.
00:23:55:01 - 00:23:57:04
People have recognized what I've done.
00:23:57:04 - 00:23:59:22
It's been announced people now.
00:23:59:22 - 00:24:01:00
So it's a big deal.
00:24:01:00 - 00:24:03:13
And letting people know that it's a big deal and it means
00:24:03:13 - 00:24:07:00
it's got some things behind it, whether that's advancement
00:24:07:08 - 00:24:10:22
or increase in compensation or benefits
00:24:11:05 - 00:24:15:08
or responsibility, it really it really means something.
00:24:17:18 - 00:24:18:10
We hear all the
00:24:18:10 - 00:24:22:06
time about how people don't quit their job or quit the company.
00:24:22:06 - 00:24:23:19
They quit their manager.
00:24:23:19 - 00:24:26:13
And one company said, you know, we're very aware of that.
00:24:26:13 - 00:24:29:21
We think we've got really good managers, but not all managers are created equal.
00:24:30:08 - 00:24:34:04
And what they've been trying to do is you come into our organization
00:24:34:04 - 00:24:38:03
and rather than you just have one manager that you report to,
00:24:38:08 - 00:24:42:11
we make sure you get a chance to meet three or four or five different managers.
00:24:42:18 - 00:24:47:11
So if by opportunity or by faith or by whatever
00:24:47:21 - 00:24:51:09
you might be a really good match with your boss, you might not be
00:24:51:09 - 00:24:54:01
might be a personality thing, might be all kinds of different things.
00:24:54:20 - 00:24:57:20
We want you to see a variety of different leadership styles.
00:24:58:02 - 00:25:00:01
So if you're thinking about going,
00:25:01:07 - 00:25:02:11
you looked around a little
00:25:02:11 - 00:25:06:00
bit, you like, you know, I do like my job and I do like this place.
00:25:06:08 - 00:25:09:07
I've got a little bit of an issue with my manager.
00:25:09:12 - 00:25:11:02
We can begin to experience that.
00:25:11:02 - 00:25:13:21
We can talk about that and either fix that relationship
00:25:14:06 - 00:25:15:14
or at least you know
00:25:15:14 - 00:25:17:21
well, there's other people around you who approach things different,
00:25:18:05 - 00:25:21:17
and maybe you're a step by step person, and this person is kind of a big thinker
00:25:21:17 - 00:25:23:01
or the opposite.
00:25:23:01 - 00:25:24:05
It might just be,
00:25:24:05 - 00:25:28:05
you know, there's a better place for you in the organization and you've seen it.
00:25:28:05 - 00:25:30:08
So I'm not going to just quit this manager now.
00:25:30:16 - 00:25:33:00
I'm going to see if there's something else I can do.
00:25:33:15 - 00:25:35:11
So those are a few things in the h.r.
00:25:35:11 - 00:25:38:05
Area that seen in the last month or so.
00:25:38:15 - 00:25:39:05
Yeah.
00:25:39:09 - 00:25:43:07
So as we begin to wrap up here, there were there was some research
00:25:43:07 - 00:25:47:21
summarized from executive networks which found that a lot of workers so h.r.
00:25:47:21 - 00:25:51:16
Leaders, business leaders, frontline leaders and workers
00:25:52:07 - 00:25:56:06
are saying that coming to the office is not commute worthy.
00:25:56:06 - 00:26:00:03
So any comments on this are no comment.
00:26:00:17 - 00:26:03:02
Commute worthy. I like that.
00:26:03:02 - 00:26:06:02
You know, i think what they were getting at was
00:26:07:06 - 00:26:09:16
i'm not going to come in, especially if my
00:26:10:10 - 00:26:12:19
if you can imagine your commute is a little bit of a pain,
00:26:13:00 - 00:26:17:21
whether it's traffic or distance or or just screws up your whole day
00:26:17:21 - 00:26:20:15
for getting kids to school or whatever it might be.
00:26:22:06 - 00:26:25:16
You have had an opportunity now to not have to have that hassle.
00:26:26:03 - 00:26:28:17
And there are, you know, legitimate reasons for going remote
00:26:28:17 - 00:26:30:20
and there's legitimate reasons for being in the office.
00:26:31:07 - 00:26:35:08
But from an employer's point of view, to make that commute worthy
00:26:35:13 - 00:26:39:02
of your time, it's got to have a purpose to it.
00:26:39:03 - 00:26:42:21
If I can do exactly what I need to do today at home
00:26:43:06 - 00:26:45:10
or at work and work means
00:26:46:00 - 00:26:49:17
45 minutes, an hour or 2 hours driving back and forth.
00:26:50:03 - 00:26:52:20
Why would I do that if I if there isn't a reason?
00:26:53:03 - 00:26:54:22
Now, is there an important meeting?
00:26:54:22 - 00:26:56:10
Do I have to be a part of something?
00:26:56:10 - 00:26:58:11
Other people coming to the company?
00:26:58:11 - 00:26:59:13
That's a big part of it.
00:26:59:13 - 00:27:02:04
And that might be part of the culture and that's tough.
00:27:02:04 - 00:27:05:08
That's the organization and you have to be there, you know, for that.
00:27:05:21 - 00:27:08:18
But organizations are looking at like, how do we become a magnet?
00:27:08:18 - 00:27:13:05
How do we make this a place that you're willing to drive 30 minutes to come here?
00:27:13:09 - 00:27:15:01
Because it's fun.
00:27:15:01 - 00:27:17:18
It's interesting. I like the people I'm working with.
00:27:18:00 - 00:27:20:06
I've got some team meetings set up.
00:27:20:06 - 00:27:24:05
We do have some conversation spaces and I want to do a puzzle for 5 minutes today.
00:27:24:10 - 00:27:27:13
I don't know what it is, but what makes what makes the office
00:27:27:13 - 00:27:30:22
look is as attractive as going to the Starbucks down at the corner.
00:27:31:08 - 00:27:33:14
And so I think the commute worthy is
00:27:34:01 - 00:27:36:21
as an employer, I can say, look, this is the way we want to function.
00:27:36:21 - 00:27:38:04
And you decided to work here.
00:27:38:04 - 00:27:41:21
And as long as I was upfront with you, that commute is part of what you do,
00:27:42:10 - 00:27:44:01
but it's your change, your attitude.
00:27:44:01 - 00:27:45:12
If you're coming in knowing
00:27:45:12 - 00:27:48:15
it's pizza day or it's jean day or it's something else day
00:27:48:15 - 00:27:51:16
and it's going to be kind of fun and relaxed or the board's coming in
00:27:51:16 - 00:27:55:01
and it's going to be really exciting because we're going to talk about new ideas.
00:27:56:03 - 00:27:57:10
We just have to be the magnet
00:27:57:10 - 00:28:01:07
for attract and we've just become a place that we want people to come to.
00:28:01:07 - 00:28:04:11
And then it's it's a non-issue for sure.
00:28:05:01 - 00:28:07:18
So you've got a chart on the talent report, too,
00:28:07:18 - 00:28:12:07
that shows keys to organizational success in 2023.
00:28:12:07 - 00:28:14:14
So can you share what's on that chart?
00:28:15:05 - 00:28:18:00
Yeah, and this was the executive networks, too, and they were just looking
00:28:18:00 - 00:28:21:20
at, you know, what's everybody focusing on for the next year?
00:28:22:00 - 00:28:24:23
And it's sort of interesting because there's probably four
00:28:24:23 - 00:28:28:11
or five things here that are all pretty close together now.
00:28:28:11 - 00:28:32:11
I don’t think anything is going to shock anybody but upskilling the workforce,
00:28:32:16 - 00:28:35:11
what are people doing and how can we make them even better
00:28:35:11 - 00:28:36:20
at what they're doing,
00:28:36:20 - 00:28:41:11
enabling that new ways of working, whether that's remote or hybrid or in-person?
00:28:41:18 - 00:28:45:11
How do we create environments where whatever we're trying to set up
00:28:45:11 - 00:28:47:07
is what people are looking for?
00:28:47:07 - 00:28:52:09
And so that becomes a plus, not a not a minus in terms of how people
00:28:53:00 - 00:28:56:15
go to work addressing employee wellbeing and mental health,
00:28:56:15 - 00:28:59:07
how do we make this a place that's supportive,
00:29:00:01 - 00:29:02:20
making sure that they're utilizing our EAP program, um,
00:29:03:12 - 00:29:05:20
knowing that the department is there for them,
00:29:06:03 - 00:29:09:19
you know, how do we make this a good place for them to go and work?
00:29:10:09 - 00:29:12:18
Diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging?
00:29:13:03 - 00:29:16:10
Are we doing what we need to do to make sure we are welcoming
00:29:16:16 - 00:29:20:22
everyone who wants to come work for us, whether that's our policies, our approach,
00:29:21:02 - 00:29:25:22
whatever it might be, looking at that, and then talent, attraction, retention.
00:29:26:01 - 00:29:28:13
You know, like I said earlier, I think it's gotten better.
00:29:28:13 - 00:29:31:16
I don't think it's quite as big of a headache for people as it has been,
00:29:32:06 - 00:29:34:23
but people have been through it now and they're like, okay, there's
00:29:34:23 - 00:29:38:05
certainly not an abundance of people and I don't want to go through what
00:29:38:05 - 00:29:40:10
we've had to go through the last couple of years.
00:29:40:10 - 00:29:42:15
So let's keep the pipeline moving.
00:29:42:20 - 00:29:44:08
Let's have people available
00:29:44:08 - 00:29:47:13
and let's make sure we're doing everything we can to hang on to the folks that
00:29:48:06 - 00:29:51:13
that we've got that we know are good and we don't want to lose.
00:29:52:06 - 00:29:53:03
Absolutely.
00:29:53:03 - 00:29:55:10
Last question here.
00:29:55:10 - 00:30:00:07
Can you give us a sneak peek what May's Senate report will be on?
00:30:00:22 - 00:30:03:12
I can tell you, but don't tell anybody else because it's topic.
00:30:04:14 - 00:30:07:09
We're going to dive deep into emerging leaders
00:30:07:09 - 00:30:11:10
and those high potentials, those people that you've identified.
00:30:11:10 - 00:30:15:13
And we're going to kind of go through what is a really good emerging leader
00:30:15:13 - 00:30:21:02
program look like, because what we're seeing is a lot of companies are saying,
00:30:21:02 - 00:30:24:10
yep, we've got emerging leaders, we've got high potentials.
00:30:24:18 - 00:30:26:08
What are you doing about it?
00:30:26:08 - 00:30:29:01
Oh, we've identified them. Okay.
00:30:29:06 - 00:30:30:13
Do they know that?
00:30:30:13 - 00:30:32:07
What was the criteria?
00:30:32:07 - 00:30:33:23
What are you doing with them?
00:30:33:23 - 00:30:36:00
And we're just seeing a lot of people are at the.
00:30:36:04 - 00:30:37:13
Yeah, that's a good idea.
00:30:37:13 - 00:30:40:08
We should be doing something about that.
00:30:40:08 - 00:30:43:04
We're going to go through sort of how do you start all that up?
00:30:43:04 - 00:30:44:17
How do you make that happen?
00:30:44:17 - 00:30:46:14
What are the steps to do that?
00:30:46:14 - 00:30:49:04
And quite frankly, where are the ways that an organization like
00:30:49:09 - 00:30:52:07
MRA can help support companies in that type of growth?
00:30:52:07 - 00:30:54:16
Because they're going to be critical in the next
00:30:55:16 - 00:30:58:15
5 to 50 years?
00:30:58:15 - 00:31:00:18
Great. Looking forward to it.
00:31:00:18 - 00:31:05:15
So I know you kind of you gave a great overview today on the April report,
00:31:05:15 - 00:31:10:05
but do you have any last thoughts or pieces of advice you want to end with?
00:31:11:05 - 00:31:15:07
I think people are starting to, like I said, feel a little bit more relaxed.
00:31:15:11 - 00:31:18:14
My advice for this month would be don't get too relax.
00:31:19:09 - 00:31:22:11
We might have a good month or two or and like we've got everybody we need
00:31:22:11 - 00:31:23:10
and whatever.
00:31:23:10 - 00:31:24:10
I would still make sure
00:31:24:10 - 00:31:27:09
there are people in the wings and you're still focusing every day on
00:31:27:15 - 00:31:30:00
how do you keep the ones you've already got?
00:31:30:00 - 00:31:32:07
Because we still have
00:31:32:17 - 00:31:35:07
a numbers problem, especially in the upper Midwest.
00:31:35:07 - 00:31:40:04
So don't get too complacent with your talent attraction and retention.
00:31:40:16 - 00:31:43:07
All right. We want good advice.
00:31:44:08 - 00:31:45:23
Well, thank you for being on
00:31:45:23 - 00:31:49:05
the podcast today, Jim, and sharing this monster report.
00:31:50:05 - 00:31:52:19
I encourage you all to share this episode.
00:31:52:20 - 00:31:56:08
Leave a comment in review and consider joining MRA
00:31:56:08 - 00:31:58:07
if you aren't a member already.
00:31:58:07 - 00:32:02:06
We do have all the resources in the show notes, so make sure check those out.
00:32:03:05 - 00:32:06:19
We also include a Jim's LinkedIn profile and his bio
00:32:06:19 - 00:32:09:18
so you can get in touch with him easily there.
00:32:10:06 - 00:32:12:08
Otherwise, thank you for tuning in today
00:32:12:08 - 00:32:15:00
and thanks Jim, for all the great information.
00:32:15:14 - 00:32:16:07
My pleasure.
00:32:16:07 - 00:32:20:13
And I hope everybody joins us at our HR conference in Wisconsin.
00:32:21:01 - 00:32:23:21
Virtually ah, and in person, which is on May 10th
00:32:23:22 - 00:32:26:06
and then a month later in June were up in Minnesota.
00:32:26:06 - 00:32:28:09
So I'll being join us for that as well.
00:32:28:19 - 00:32:30:20
Absolutely Good part.
00:32:30:20 - 00:32:31:19
Thank you.
00:32:32:06 - 00:32:34:07
And we will see you next week.
00:32:34:07 - 00:32:37:02
And that wraps up our content for this episode.
00:32:37:03 - 00:32:40:07
Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign up to connect.
00:32:40:07 - 00:32:41:23
For more podcast updates,
00:32:41:23 - 00:32:45:18
check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform.
00:32:45:18 - 00:32:50:16
And as always, make sure to follow MRA’s 30 minutes Thrive so you don't miss out.
00:32:50:17 - 00:32:53:16
Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry
00:32:53:16 - 00:32:55:07
on the HR conversation.

33 min
April 05, 2023The Engagement Equation: Finding the Right Balance
Description:
In this episode, we’ll explore the idea that workplace engagement is a two-way street and that employees and managers must play an active role in finding the right balance.
Engagement is crucial to productivity, motivation, and satisfaction in the workplace, which both employees and managers should strive for. But what does it take to create a workplace culture where engagement is a shared responsibility?
We’ll hear from MRA’s Employee Engagement Survey Director, Kristie Haase, who will share her insights on creating a workplace where employees and managers are equally engaged.
We’ll explore topics such as:
The importance of communication and collaboration between employees and managers
How to set goals and expectations that promote engagement and motivation for everyone involved
The role of feedback and recognition in maintaining engagement
By the end of this episode, you’ll better understand how workplace engagement is a shared responsibility between employees and managers and the strategies they can use to promote engagement and balance for everyone involved. Whether you’re an employee or a manager, this episode is for you.

Resources:
Employee Engagement Resources
MRA Membership
About MRA
Let's Connect:
Guest Bio - Kristie Haase
Guest LinkedIn Profile - Kristie Haase
Host Bio - Sophie Boler
Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler
Transcript:
Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word.
00:00:00:01 - 00:00:03:10
Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive,
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your go to podcast for anything and everything HR.
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powered by MRA, the Management Association.
00:00:09:23 - 00:00:12:23
Looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR?
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MRA has got you covered.
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We'll be the first to tell you what's hot, and what's not.
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I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here.
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Now it's time to thrive.
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Hello, everybody, and welcome to this episode of 30 Minute Thrive.
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I'm excited to introduce to you our guests for today, and that's Kristi
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Hasse our employee engagement survey director here at MRA.
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Kristi's passion is coaching leaders to really identify
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and align employee strengths to meet the business needs of the organizations.
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And she uses a combination of questions, humor
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in analogies to strengthen leaders ability to communicate with team members,
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applying that same combination to align employees
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to their current positions and career path.
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Her goal is really to increase engagement one employee at a time.
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So Kristi has served as an HR Generalist for 17 years
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in the manufacturing distrubution and health insurers, insurance industries
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across private public and nonprofit sectors
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and has worked at MRA for almost ten years now.
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So she comes with a lot of experience
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and knowledge today that i'm excited to talk about.
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And she'll really be highlighting employee engagement with her
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coaching and leadership backgrounds.
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So thanks for joining us.
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Thanks for having me. Absolutely.
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let's dive into the first question right away
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and I really want to talk about that.
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There's a lot of different words and terms that people like to use when talking
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about engagement, for example, engagement,
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satisfaction, retention and culture.
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So can you kind of talk about the difference
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in the differences between each of those terms now?
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Sure.
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So if we're thinking about engagement,
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engagement in the definition that we use,
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at MRA is really investment.
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How invested is an individual
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in the organization they are in and in the job that they're doing,
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whereas satisfaction really is
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how content are they.
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So I like to use the analogy for those two
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to be almost like being in this room with you right now.
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So this is a very comfortable room.
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It's nice and warm.
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You're nice and warm.
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You know, it's easy to be here.
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So I can say, Oh, you know, I'm content,
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but if you were not asking me questions
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in the moment, I could be satisfied content,
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but maybe thinking about something entirely different.
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What am I having for dinner?
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so I may not be invested in the discussion or I may not be present
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in the discussion.
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So in order to be both satisfied and engaged,
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a person has to say for satisfaction, Is this really a place for me?
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And then for engagement do I want to contribute to I want to be a part of.
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So they really they work together, but they are separate things.
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So how do they look on the other side now?
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How do they tie together?
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And should you be using these terms interchangeably?
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You should not be using the terms interchangeably.
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That's the easy part.
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How they tie together is almost as complicated as we are as humans.
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There's a lot of variables.
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And so in in business,
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we often talk about how important retaining talent is.
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We want our folks to stay with us as long as possible.
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So we we talk about that as retention
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and then when we start to talk about how to measure retention, a lot of times
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leaders or HR folks will say, oh, you know, i want to measure engagement.
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And when we start talking about, well, why do you want to measure that?
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A lot of times we're really talking about satisfaction.
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So when we think about
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what we're
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looking to do, retention is the end goal.
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Engagement is a part of that end goal.
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But engagement on its own won't necessarily ensure retention.
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Satisfaction on its own won't necessarily ensure retention,
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engagement, satisfaction in culture.
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What other employment alternatives are out there right now?
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All of those factors
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contribute to how long a person stays in the organization, not to mention
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the non-work-related components of our lives.
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Are we?
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Do we need to leave an organization
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because we have a change in our family, our spouse moving?
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So there's all the non-work-related factors that go in as well.
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So the when we think about
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using terms interchangeably, no, I would
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I want folks to really be clear about when they're looking
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to measure engagement or they want to change employee engagement.
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They're really looking at how to increase
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a sense of accountability and investment when they're looking to
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influence satisfaction.
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I want them to think about the experience, the employee experience,
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and then when they're thinking about retention,
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I want them to be thinking about, okay, the length of time
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people are in their organization or in the role in an organization
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you just mentioned about measuring employee engagement, And it's important
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for companies to really measure their success with employee engagement.
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So I guess that poses the question of
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can you actually measure engagement?
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The easy short answer is yes.
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The reality is it's hard to do
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because with any
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any human component that you're trying to measure,
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whether it's satisfaction, engagement
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and sense of culture in an organization, there are a lot of variables at play.
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So they they interact with each other, as I've already talked about.
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So the the best approach to
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measure engagement is to be knowledgeable about what
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your definition of engagement is going to be.
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So at MRA, we say that we're we're measuring engagement.
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We are looking to see how
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well the organization has identified their mission
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and how well they describe
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how employees jobs are tied to that mission.
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Then we're measuring the employees interest in the mission,
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the future of the organization and their perception of
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and and their willingness to contribute to the outcome of that.
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So we really define specifically what we're trying to measure.
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And then we design questions to align to that.
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And a lot of times, organization will say, I want to measure engagement
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and they may select a vendor to help them do that
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and their definitions don't align,
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or they might do their own survey and just ask questions
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that may or may not get at that construct of engagement.
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So it's hard to do, admittedly.
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But yes, you certainly can measure.
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And then kind of going off about what is your experience
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with using data metrics to really measure engagement?
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Well, you know, I do it all the time.
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So for the past nine years, I've been administering
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employee engagement surveys to members of MRA.
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And one of the
00:08:03:00 - 00:08:06:02
things that I find interesting
00:08:06:02 - 00:08:10:09
is that no matter that you organization, no matter the industry,
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no matter the size of the company, there are
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themes that continue to surface
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when it comes to employee engagement, and that is that in order for
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people to really feel a sense of engagement,
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they do need to know that mission.
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They need to know how their job aligns.
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They need to feel a part of the organization.
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They need to feel like they are in the know.
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So communication becomes a critical piece for them
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and then a sense of growth in the organization that they can grow
00:08:47:22 - 00:08:51:15
their skillset, not necessarily moving up in the organization,
00:08:52:01 - 00:08:58:00
but feeling like that they are learning as they are giving to the organization.
00:08:58:00 - 00:09:02:08
And you can certainly you can measure all of that
00:09:02:08 - 00:09:06:00
through surveys and surveys are important to do.
00:09:06:00 - 00:09:09:00
But the other component of measuring engagement
00:09:09:12 - 00:09:13:00
is the qualitative side,
00:09:13:08 - 00:09:17:18
meaning engagement is visual, you can observe it.
00:09:18:04 - 00:09:21:14
So organizations that are interested
00:09:21:14 - 00:09:24:19
in engagement, I encourage them to collect
00:09:25:00 - 00:09:27:07
the metrics, to run the surveys,
00:09:27:21 - 00:09:31:16
but also to begin to know what it looks like.
00:09:31:16 - 00:09:34:11
And sounds like that too, is measurement.
00:09:34:19 - 00:09:39:06
And in a lot of ways it is a more valuable measure of engagement.
00:09:39:06 - 00:09:40:21
Yeah, I really like that.
00:09:40:21 - 00:09:46:01
That kind of brings us to our next point that engagement is not all one sided too.
00:09:46:09 - 00:09:50:18
It's not all on the employer manager to keep employees engaged,
00:09:50:18 - 00:09:55:11
and it's also not all on the employees to make sure that they stay engaged.
00:09:55:11 - 00:09:58:03
You So can you talk about that for a little bit,
00:09:58:12 - 00:10:00:04
oh, I could talk about that for a long time.
00:10:00:04 - 00:10:05:15
Sophie because I think that is one of the most intriguing components of engagement.
00:10:05:15 - 00:10:08:08
It really is a two way street.
00:10:09:05 - 00:10:11:10
It is. It's an equation.
00:10:11:10 - 00:10:15:18
So there are things that the organization must do
00:10:16:11 - 00:10:19:15
in order to ensure that employees can engage.
00:10:20:00 - 00:10:23:11
So they do need as I know I'm repeating myself here,
00:10:23:11 - 00:10:26:21
but they do need to say, Hey, this is who we are as an organization.
00:10:26:21 - 00:10:28:15
This is our purpose.
00:10:28:15 - 00:10:30:23
And that needs to be a prevalent message
00:10:31:14 - 00:10:34:13
for each position in the organization.
00:10:34:13 - 00:10:39:22
It needs to be clear how that position contributes to the purpose.
00:10:40:14 - 00:10:44:18
So the employer is responsible for those two things.
00:10:45:05 - 00:10:49:12
Well, if if I am coming to work for your organization, Sophie,
00:10:49:12 - 00:10:51:00
and you're that you're my,
00:10:51:00 - 00:10:53:07
you're going to be my leader and you explain those things to me.
00:10:53:07 - 00:10:54:07
Really well.
00:10:54:07 - 00:10:57:14
You've done the first two pieces for my engagement,
00:10:57:21 - 00:11:00:00
but the second two are mine.
00:11:00:10 - 00:11:05:16
So I have to then say, Oh, yes, I like what this organization is about.
00:11:06:01 - 00:11:11:18
I like with the role is about I want to stay here while I want to contribute.
00:11:12:07 - 00:11:14:08
So I have to make that choice.
00:11:14:08 - 00:11:17:13
And then the second piece for me as the employee is
00:11:17:13 - 00:11:21:12
I now have to apply my knowledge, skills and abilities.
00:11:21:18 - 00:11:23:04
So I have to apply myself.
00:11:23:04 - 00:11:25:07
I have to really get involved.
00:11:25:07 - 00:11:27:22
So that is the employee's
00:11:27:22 - 00:11:30:14
responsibility for engagement.
00:11:30:14 - 00:11:35:08
Then if I say yes, I want to be a part of this organization,
00:11:35:08 - 00:11:40:04
I want to contribute, then it's back to you as my leader
00:11:40:17 - 00:11:45:16
to ensure that I have what I need to do my job too.
00:11:45:16 - 00:11:47:22
I have the tools and equipment.
00:11:47:22 - 00:11:53:01
As the job changes, do I have the opportunity to gain new skills?
00:11:53:01 - 00:11:55:18
So you've got to help me to continue to grow.
00:11:56:06 - 00:11:59:16
And then also I have to feel visible in the organization.
00:11:59:23 - 00:12:03:06
Now we talk about employee recognition a lot,
00:12:04:09 - 00:12:05:18
but we often think about employee
00:12:05:18 - 00:12:09:05
recognition as tokens or money.
00:12:09:15 - 00:12:14:15
But when it comes to engagement, the recognition is primarily
00:12:14:23 - 00:12:17:05
between the employee and their leader.
00:12:17:10 - 00:12:22:06
So do you see me if I'm having to put in a lot of effort
00:12:22:20 - 00:12:25:01
to complete a project
00:12:26:13 - 00:12:28:01
and I'm working a lot of hours, let's
00:12:28:01 - 00:12:31:01
say your simple acknowledgment of Kristi.
00:12:31:01 - 00:12:34:14
Thank you. I know that this is a long haul.
00:12:34:14 - 00:12:36:14
I know you're contributing a lot of hours.
00:12:36:14 - 00:12:38:10
Thank you for doing so.
00:12:38:10 - 00:12:39:15
I feel visible.
00:12:39:15 - 00:12:43:18
But if I'm giving, giving, giving and my immediate leader isn’t
00:12:43:20 - 00:12:46:17
recognizing that, then over time
00:12:47:17 - 00:12:50:18
I tend to not just myself, I'm using myself
00:12:50:18 - 00:12:55:11
in the examples, but over time people will give less.
00:12:55:11 - 00:12:57:05
They'll sort of pull back.
00:12:57:05 - 00:13:02:06
It's not necessarily disengaging, but for a lot of organizations that are
00:13:02:06 - 00:13:06:18
measuring engagement, their populations by go from highly engaged to engaged.
00:13:07:02 - 00:13:11:08
So feeling valued and visible for the contributions
00:13:11:10 - 00:13:15:17
for the outcomes is important to sustain engagement.
00:13:15:23 - 00:13:17:11
Yeah, those are great points.
00:13:17:11 - 00:13:19:04
I love the recognition piece
00:13:19:04 - 00:13:22:09
because I feel like that's very important for me to use to be like
00:13:23:19 - 00:13:26:01
that kind of just motivates you to like keep going.
00:13:26:01 - 00:13:28:02
Like, Hey, my work work's being recognized.
00:13:28:06 - 00:13:29:13
They like what I'm doing.
00:13:29:13 - 00:13:32:11
I keep going kind of, yeah. So I like that.
00:13:32:23 - 00:13:35:04
Let's say that
00:13:35:04 - 00:13:37:12
you're organization and start to notice
00:13:37:12 - 00:13:41:21
that employee engagement is starting to decline.
00:13:41:21 - 00:13:44:13
What would you say the first action step is?
00:13:45:06 - 00:13:47:16
Oh, this is not our question.
00:13:48:00 - 00:13:50:22
Yeah, this is probably not going to be a thing
00:13:50:22 - 00:13:53:11
for an answer for for people to hear.
00:13:54:03 - 00:13:57:21
But this goes back to the two ways to measure engagement.
00:13:57:23 - 00:14:02:11
Yes, you can do surveys, but you can also observe engagement.
00:14:02:21 - 00:14:08:04
And so my hope is that for organizations
00:14:08:04 - 00:14:11:21
where someone is now concerned that engagement may have dropped,
00:14:12:23 - 00:14:15:20
my preference and hope would be that they're noticing,
00:14:15:20 - 00:14:18:06
they're hearing the difference. There's standing difference.
00:14:18:06 - 00:14:21:14
And as soon as they hear or see it that individual leaders
00:14:21:14 - 00:14:26:05
are talking with their folks, this is what's often less appealing
00:14:26:18 - 00:14:31:02
because it's easy to get a survey and let there be anonymous responses.
00:14:31:14 - 00:14:34:20
But Sophie, going back to the example, if you're my leader
00:14:35:18 - 00:14:38:06
and you're working with me and you know
00:14:38:06 - 00:14:40:17
that I've been a consistent performer
00:14:41:12 - 00:14:44:03
and I have demonstrated interest
00:14:44:03 - 00:14:49:10
and concern and now you see change, the quickest, best action
00:14:49:10 - 00:14:53:15
is to have a one on one discussion to say, Hey, Kristi,
00:14:54:03 - 00:14:59:21
I notice, that lately you're you're not as talkative in meetings or
00:15:00:20 - 00:15:01:12
I notice
00:15:01:12 - 00:15:04:13
that you're not volunteering for some of the extra projects.
00:15:04:13 - 00:15:07:12
You know, you're just kind of only a late answer,
00:15:07:18 - 00:15:10:06
whatever it is, and that the
00:15:10:19 - 00:15:14:00
the discussion can open up at that point because that
00:15:14:00 - 00:15:18:06
discussion enables a leader to learn
00:15:18:06 - 00:15:21:16
what roadblock may now be underway
00:15:22:03 - 00:15:27:13
or what has changed in that employee for their engagement to shift.
00:15:27:14 - 00:15:31:08
And so that is the best thing to do in that moment.
00:15:31:08 - 00:15:37:00
Now from employee engagement surveys, I can guess what
00:15:37:09 - 00:15:40:02
changes have occurred,
00:15:40:02 - 00:15:42:07
what we see and what we have seen
00:15:42:07 - 00:15:45:15
not only during COVID but over the past decade.
00:15:45:23 - 00:15:49:12
The biggest factors that
00:15:50:21 - 00:15:52:23
influence engagement
00:15:52:23 - 00:15:57:01
is the level of communication on the day to day.
00:15:57:10 - 00:16:01:09
So if the job changes and that employee was not aware,
00:16:02:00 - 00:16:04:12
then that's really going to alter their engagement.
00:16:05:00 - 00:16:07:14
If they have expressed an interest
00:16:07:14 - 00:16:12:18
or a need to learn something new and their leader leader
00:16:12:18 - 00:16:16:05
is not arranging for that, that's going to drive engagement.
00:16:16:16 - 00:16:18:08
It's going to change engagement.
00:16:18:08 - 00:16:22:12
If they feel like they've been hired to do a certain job
00:16:22:12 - 00:16:26:10
and they're not allowed to do it either because they are being micromanaged
00:16:26:10 - 00:16:30:09
or because there's a disconnect between what they're doing
00:16:30:09 - 00:16:32:08
and what their colleague is doing
00:16:32:08 - 00:16:34:20
or what their department is doing in another department is doing.
00:16:34:20 - 00:16:36:13
They're not working well together.
00:16:36:13 - 00:16:38:04
That's going to hinder engagement.
00:16:38:04 - 00:16:43:05
So having those conversations enables a leader and an employee
00:16:43:13 - 00:16:48:10
to identify what has changed or what may be a factor,
00:16:48:11 - 00:16:52:12
and then to work together to try to improve that.
00:16:52:22 - 00:16:55:23
And even all those conversations and probably difficult
00:16:55:23 - 00:16:57:20
or might be hard to bring up.
00:16:57:20 - 00:17:02:02
It also shows that, hey, my leader cares about you and cares
00:17:02:07 - 00:17:07:11
why I'm not performing my best and stuff like you and Sophie.
00:17:07:11 - 00:17:10:03
On that point, I have to also say,
00:17:10:21 - 00:17:14:05
you know, engagement, as we have mentioned, is two ways.
00:17:14:10 - 00:17:14:21
Yeah.
00:17:14:21 - 00:17:20:08
And I have to now also acknowledge that for leaders a lot of times
00:17:21:10 - 00:17:24:01
engaged employees are
00:17:24:16 - 00:17:31:07
challenging for leaders because if if an employee is really engaged,
00:17:31:12 - 00:17:37:04
they care and they have high expectations to be in the know.
00:17:37:07 - 00:17:39:17
Yeah. Or for things to be fixed.
00:17:39:17 - 00:17:43:08
And so a lot of times to have these one on one discussions,
00:17:43:19 - 00:17:48:06
the leader is a little bit vulnerable to what the employee's expressing.
00:17:48:12 - 00:17:52:02
And depending upon that employee's personality,
00:17:52:02 - 00:17:53:10
they can be really passionate.
00:17:53:10 - 00:17:57:12
And so they have a lot of energy about what is happy about.
00:17:57:19 - 00:18:00:10
The leader could just be like, Oh,
00:18:00:12 - 00:18:02:19
that's a good point, what do I do?
00:18:03:21 - 00:18:06:22
And so in all fairness, that's I think that's
00:18:06:22 - 00:18:12:03
one of the biggest challenges for leaders when they are managing engaged employees.
00:18:12:18 - 00:18:14:17
I mean, highly engaged employees.
00:18:14:17 - 00:18:17:11
You can almost feel that momentum from them.
00:18:17:19 - 00:18:21:15
So the leader needs to be prepared to handle that and be okay.
00:18:21:15 - 00:18:22:00
Right.
00:18:22:00 - 00:18:25:09
The kind of going off of that declining
00:18:25:09 - 00:18:28:20
employee engagement, we're still hearing about quiet quitting.
00:18:29:06 - 00:18:31:13
So how does that tie into engagement?
00:18:31:13 - 00:18:34:14
And can you recommend anything to leaders out there
00:18:34:14 - 00:18:37:19
or even just employees experiencing quiet quitting?
00:18:39:07 - 00:18:42:05
I have I have some feelings about that term.
00:18:42:05 - 00:18:46:04
I struggle with quiet quitting a little bit because I know it's
00:18:46:04 - 00:18:49:22
been a term of interest in the past year or so.
00:18:50:21 - 00:18:54:00
And I think that it really depends
00:18:54:12 - 00:18:57:19
on how you define defining quiet quitting.
00:18:58:12 - 00:19:02:03
Some folks have defined quiet quitting to be
00:19:02:03 - 00:19:06:15
oh, a person is no longer going above and beyond for if that's your definition,
00:19:07:06 - 00:19:10:20
then then there's no problem in that sense.
00:19:10:20 - 00:19:14:18
Because if you think about a person no longer going above and beyond,
00:19:15:14 - 00:19:20:13
if you think about how we rate performance in organizations, we give ratings.
00:19:20:13 - 00:19:25:06
If we're still doing ratings will go to the ratings of exceeds
00:19:25:06 - 00:19:28:08
expectations meets expectations
00:19:28:12 - 00:19:32:00
is not meeting, it's below expectations.
00:19:32:00 - 00:19:36:09
So when a person goes above and beyond, then theoretically they should be rated
00:19:36:09 - 00:19:37:23
exceeds expectations.
00:19:37:23 - 00:19:40:12
If they're no longer doing that, but they're still getting their work done.
00:19:40:13 - 00:19:43:12
They're meeting expectations and quiet. Quitting is not a problem
00:19:44:15 - 00:19:45:22
if you define quiet.
00:19:45:22 - 00:19:50:14
Quitting though, as a person who is not
00:19:51:03 - 00:19:53:12
meeting expectations of the role,
00:19:54:01 - 00:19:58:19
then I would say in terms of measuring engagement,
00:19:59:00 - 00:20:01:19
that person's performance is now subpar
00:20:02:03 - 00:20:05:19
and they may be moving into the less engaged category.
00:20:06:05 - 00:20:09:12
And when you think about engagement and satisfaction,
00:20:09:12 - 00:20:13:18
it might mean that their satisfaction is still good.
00:20:13:18 - 00:20:16:20
They're still content to stay with the organization,
00:20:17:08 - 00:20:21:07
but they're not contributing as much if they're not meeting your expectations,
00:20:21:07 - 00:20:25:11
you have to address that from the objective perspective of the role.
00:20:26:00 - 00:20:31:07
But is they are not giving the extra and you want that back,
00:20:31:17 - 00:20:34:01
then it's back to what we talked about before
00:20:34:01 - 00:20:37:12
and you've got to be able to sit down and say, Kristi, I noticed
00:20:37:23 - 00:20:41:08
that you're no longer doing X, Y and Z.
00:20:41:08 - 00:20:43:22
So those conversations are critical,
00:20:44:23 - 00:20:45:12
but I
00:20:45:12 - 00:20:48:01
am just not that concerned with quiet quitting.
00:20:48:12 - 00:20:51:20
I think I think for a lot of organizations
00:20:51:20 - 00:20:54:20
and for a lot of employees
00:20:54:22 - 00:20:58:07
that there has been a shift, you know, since Covid,
00:20:58:12 - 00:21:03:00
where people really are evaluating, Yeah, how if I want to spend my time
00:21:03:10 - 00:21:06:07
and quite honestly for us as employers,
00:21:07:01 - 00:21:10:04
the flip side of that is, you know,
00:21:10:04 - 00:21:14:18
if we have not been acknowledging the contributions,
00:21:15:02 - 00:21:20:03
then the employees are that are creating that balance for themselves.
00:21:20:14 - 00:21:21:21
And that makes sense.
00:21:21:21 - 00:21:25:04
So kind of tying together all of this.
00:21:25:04 - 00:21:28:21
The title for the episode is the engagement equation
00:21:29:04 - 00:21:31:01
Finding the Right Balance.
00:21:31:01 - 00:21:34:14
So to close out for today, what is one piece of advice
00:21:34:14 - 00:21:39:23
that you would give employers on finding that right balance?
00:21:39:23 - 00:21:41:20
If you are
00:21:43:01 - 00:21:43:22
an organization that
00:21:43:22 - 00:21:46:22
really is interested in employee engagement?
00:21:47:18 - 00:21:50:18
I the one piece of advice I want to give
00:21:50:22 - 00:21:53:12
is to start at the beginning of the process.
00:21:54:05 - 00:22:01:14
The beginning of the process is for leaders to truly understand
00:22:01:14 - 00:22:08:04
the positions that report to them, not the people, but the positions.
00:22:08:04 - 00:22:09:20
What are you asking?
00:22:09:20 - 00:22:13:14
And in that position, where are the expectations?
00:22:13:17 - 00:22:16:18
What are the goals
00:22:16:18 - 00:22:19:12
and how are you measuring those things?
00:22:20:02 - 00:22:23:01
Because it's only when leaders truly
00:22:23:01 - 00:22:27:23
know what the purpose of that role is, when it's really defined for them,
00:22:28:11 - 00:22:30:14
that's when they can begin to
00:22:32:08 - 00:22:35:20
assess what meeting expectations really means,
00:22:36:03 - 00:22:40:00
what exceeding it really means, what it means to go above and beyond.
00:22:40:11 - 00:22:43:06
And they can coach effectively
00:22:43:22 - 00:22:47:06
and they can also, when they're having people enter into a role,
00:22:47:19 - 00:22:51:22
they can get those people to invest quicker.
00:22:52:05 - 00:22:56:03
So being really certain about the positions
00:22:56:03 - 00:22:59:19
that newly it is the first step for engagement.
00:22:59:23 - 00:23:00:17
Absolutely.
00:23:00:17 - 00:23:05:10
That's great advice to anyone who thinks, Do you have any last piece of advice
00:23:05:10 - 00:23:09:02
or any lasting comments to before we wrap up today.
00:23:11:06 - 00:23:14:05
So all of you, I know we've talked a lot about this for your side, but
00:23:14:05 - 00:23:18:18
Sophie, you did touch on the fact earlier that engagement is a two way street.
00:23:18:18 - 00:23:24:13
And so for the employee perspective is where most of us are employees Somewhere.
00:23:24:14 - 00:23:25:05
Yeah,
00:23:26:05 - 00:23:30:23
for, for us as individuals, engagement is important
00:23:31:05 - 00:23:35:01
because it gives us a sense of value and purpose.
00:23:35:21 - 00:23:38:08
If we're working, this is important
00:23:38:08 - 00:23:41:04
for us to say what I'm doing is really meaningful.
00:23:41:13 - 00:23:47:14
And so, you know, if you don't really feel engaged in what you're doing
00:23:47:23 - 00:23:53:13
and you're thinking about maybe making a change to something that you think
00:23:53:13 - 00:23:57:00
would be a better fit for you,
00:23:57:00 - 00:24:01:17
I would encourage you to really do that because in order for you
00:24:01:17 - 00:24:06:05
to find work valuable, engagement is this key for you.
00:24:06:05 - 00:24:08:08
It's not just being satisfied.
00:24:08:08 - 00:24:13:06
Engagement is a sense of fulfillment and it's just a healthier way to work.
00:24:13:20 - 00:24:14:15
Absolutely.
00:24:14:15 - 00:24:19:03
Well, I want to thank you for all you do at MRA, because you’re amazing
00:24:19:04 - 00:24:21:22
and I want to thank you for being on 30 minutes Thrive today
00:24:21:22 - 00:24:25:14
and really sharing your knowledge and expertise on employee engagement.
00:24:26:02 - 00:24:30:00
So to our listeners, if you liked our chat and topic today,
00:24:30:12 - 00:24:33:03
make sure you share this episode and leave a comment.
00:24:33:03 - 00:24:37:22
Leave a review and consider joining MRA if you aren't a member already
00:24:37:23 - 00:24:41:23
because we have all the show notes or all the resources in the show notes below.
00:24:42:07 - 00:24:44:03
So make sure you take a look at those.
00:24:44:03 - 00:24:47:18
We've also included Kristi's bio and LinkedIn profile,
00:24:47:18 - 00:24:50:18
so if you want to connect with her, get in touch with her.
00:24:51:09 - 00:24:53:19
We have all those resources available for you.
00:24:54:07 - 00:24:58:04
Otherwise, thanks so much for tuning in and we will see you next week.
00:24:59:05 - 00:25:01:23
And that wraps up our content for this episode.
00:25:02:00 - 00:25:05:04
Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign up to connect.
00:25:05:04 - 00:25:06:20
For more podcast updates,
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check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform.
00:25:10:14 - 00:25:15:13
And as always, make sure to follow MRA’s 30 minutes Thrive, so you don't miss out.
00:25:15:14 - 00:25:16:10
Thanks for tuning
00:25:16:10 - 00:25:20:04
in, and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the HR conversation.
26 min
March 29, 2023Talent Takeover: What Recruiters Need to Know
Description: In this podcast, we'll explore the changing landscape of talent acquisition and how recruiters can stay ahead of the game.
We interviewed industry expert and thought leader, Jennifer Trucks, Recruiting Business Partner at MRA, who shares her insights and perspectives on the current state of the recruitment landscape and offers practical advice for recruiters looking to stay competitive in today's fast-paced job market.
Whether you're a seasoned HR professional or just starting out in the world of recruitment, "Talent Takeover" will provide you with the knowledge and inspiration you need to succeed in your career. So tune in and join the conversation!
Key Takeaways:
What does Jerry Maguire have to do with recruiting? The specific line of, "Help me help you" is a great recruiting takeaway.
If you don't hear from a candidate in a day or two - follow up with them! Communication is so important during the interviewing/recruiting process!
Candidates and recruiters - stop ghosting!
Resources:
Recruiting Services
Effective Interviewing and Hiring Training
MRA Membership
About MRA
Let's Connect:
Guest Bio - Jennifer Trucks
Guest LinkedIn Profile - Jennifer Trucks
Host Bio - Sophie Boler
Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler
Transcript:
Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word.
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Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive,
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your go to podcast for anything and everything HR.
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powered by MRA, the Management Association.
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Looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR.
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MRA has got you covered.
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We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not.
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I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here.
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Now it's time to thrive.
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Hello and welcome to this episode of 30 Minute
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Thrive I'm excited to talk about our topic for today
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and that is Talent Takeover, What Recruiters Need to know.
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And thankfully, I'm joined by an expert
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on all things recruiting, and that is Jennifer Trucks.
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She's a recruiting business partner here at MRA.
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Jennifer really started her career as a coordinator at a small staffing firm
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and continued to work in staffing until moving into corporate recruitment.
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From there, she transitioned into management
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consulting, working with various companies and full cycle recruitment
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through technical professional and administrative positions.
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So you've really been involved in recruiting all of your life.
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It sounds like pretty much, yeah, for over ten years.
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Well, I appreciate you
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coming on the podcast and sharing your expertise on recruiting.
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Yes, thanks for having me.
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So let's first get really a better idea of what you do on a day to day basis.
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So could you describe a day in the life of a recruiter?
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Absolutely.
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Well, of course, it depends on the environment you're in right now.
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As a recruiter.
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You can be, you know, for example, here at MRA recruiting with for our members.
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But there's also corporate recruiters.
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There are recruiters
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that work in staffing agencies and then also in like an RPO model.
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So that's also like recruitment, outsourcing.
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But I once worked for a woman who told me that
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a really good skilled recruiter is like a master juggler,
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because without a lot of things
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going at the same time or the core going through applicants
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who are scheduling interviews from there or conducting those interviews,
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and if after those middles they want to move forward,
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then we're scheduling on site, we're having to do virtual.
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So coordinating with multiple calendars, editing any interview notes, maybe we're
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writing additional emails, doing job descriptions, postings, interview guides.
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A lot of times recruiters are also responsible for employer branding.
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So really putting their employer out there on social media, posting on LinkedIn.
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We also use LinkedIn as a sourcing platform,
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including indeed, and other job sites.
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We're also sending out additional messaging and hoping to get some responses
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too. So we're also polling data that we're getting from that outreach.
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We're looking at those incoming applicants too,
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and looking at different trends and trying to evaluate,
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you know, what this all means, that we could provide feedback to our clients
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who are members in this search and even to look for areas of improvement.
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So, you know, it's like we are an admin, we're an analyst.
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Sometimes we work as a project manager, we represent HR in the process.
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And then there's also that sales and marketing piece too, too.
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So, oh, that's really neat.
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I feel like some people don't know the full realm of why recruiters do.
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It’s cool to know what you do.
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And yes, they're going to be very busy.
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So now that the talent has really taken over
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and so the title for this podcast, can you share any examples
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or stories of changes that you've seen in the interview process?
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Well, absolutely.
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I feel like we are really looking to shorten the interview process, right,
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knowing that, you know, talent is kind of coming across
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as being more hard to find and with the competition
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with other companies to, you know, really is making sure
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that we can streamline it so that way it's quick, efficient,
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but also that we're able to get these people in the front door.
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You know, it also depends on the type of role
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and the level of skill that, you know, an example is I'm also right now
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working for a manufacturer and I'm working on machine operator positions.
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If they find someone they like
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and they're going to interview them within a week, offer them on site, right.
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And get that background check going so they can get them on board
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within it to expand and try to incentivize them
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so that way they actually start, you know, because that's always the struggle.
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But beyond that, right, if you're working on like a director level position, right.
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Especially, you know, those higher level roles, you're dealing with multiple
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interview steps that can involve multiple calendars, that involve multiple people.
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You know, they may also have to do a project
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or a presentation during the interview, which can also extend it out,
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you know, So sometimes that can very much depend on what's going on.
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But as a recruiter, we need to be continuing to persuade
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not only hiring managers but also our,
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you know, clients to move the process forward, have them understand
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the competition, especially, you know, with these candidates
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to see where else they're interviewing and make sure that they're still engaged.
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So that way they are going to be, of course, finishing the process
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and getting them in front of the front door of.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Yeah.
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And just kind of continuing the conversation on candidates and talent
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and what are they really looking for these days.
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And yes, I think, you know, candidates are really working for
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nowadays is not only, of course, better compensation and pay rights.
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You know, people want to be seen more.
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Inflation doesn't help, but it's beyond that, too.
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It's also those benefits, too, Right.
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What is the PTO package?
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Is the insurance going to be less than what they're paying for now?
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What is also offered to them, too? Right.
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When they look at, you know, leave,
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when they look at paid holidays and other additional incentives, too?
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Are they getting bonuses at the end of the year?
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Are they getting equity beyond that, too?
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It's flexibility.
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Right.
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And now a lot of companies are starting to transition
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and having people come on site more.
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But is there flexibility around that if they needed to work from home that day?
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Or is there a policy where maybe there can be more of a hybrid capacity?
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And then from there, really what's that growth and development?
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And, you know, a lot of people want to know, well, where can I see
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myself in the next two, three, five years within this company?
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Can I move up or am I going to be stuck in the same role?
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So what do those plans look like and how can they get them there?
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Yeah.
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So you've been like we mentioned, you've been recruiting
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seems like your whole life or your whole professional life. Yes.
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You've kind of seen how that interview time in length
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has changed and shortened throughout the years. Yes.
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So what else has kind of changed
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throughout the years that you've seen with recruiting?
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Well, I definitely would say was interview process, right.
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We're really looking at shortening that.
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And I know I talked about it
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depends on the role and the skill set and everything else.
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But I feel like from when that candidate has the initial conversation
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to when they get that offer in hand,
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it should be within 2 to 3 weeks, which some people think is crazy.
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But when I was in the corporate world and we had our average time
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to fill to be around like 40 to 60 days, which is like a month and a half to two,
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and sometimes that is the case for a certain roles as well.
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But being able to reduce that time, as I said, really helps with trying to
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not only get talent in the door, but to help with any additional,
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I would say, to kind of competition as well.
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And I also feel as though candidates
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have more of the say in the process and also more what they want.
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And I think employers are now even to really catering to those needs.
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Right.
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We talk about, I think a lot of times
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to pay transparency, and now companies are putting their salaries
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on their job descriptions and postings, which is amazing.
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They didn't do that ten years ago.
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Seem to benefit offerings. Right? They didn't.
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They just say we have great benefits.
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But now they get to say like we offer like different
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types of benefits around leaves that you can take or even to.
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We have so many days of PTO, so many paid holidays like,
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you know, this is also to a different insurance plans we offer.
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So they're putting that out there more so people can be like,
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you know what, This would be a really good fit for me as well.
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And I think that's what's really changed, I like that they're being more
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transparent and specific and what they offer.
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Oh, I remember when I was hired as an intern here,
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I think the whole process took maybe a week and a half.
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It was so fast.
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And that was one thing where I was like, Wow, this is impressive.
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Like, Yeah, and really stepping up their game, right?
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I was I remember just like being contacted every day
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and just like having an answer by the end of the day.
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And that was really nice.
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So no call. Exactly.
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And that's how you get people that are real.
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That's why you're here now.
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So we
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all know that there are standard interview questions that you have to ask
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a candidate for interviews, but are there any questions outside
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of those standard ones that are related to the position
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or company that recruiters should be asking candidates?
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Yes, I do really feel like recruiters should really dig into like, well,
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what kind of culture environment does that individual and be a part of?
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Right.
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You know, when you're interviewing someone,
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if they're like, yeah, I want to be part of a fast paced,
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cutting edge, innovative, you know, company or role.
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And they're interviewing maybe for a place where that is.
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It's a case, right, though, like while you're working
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for a regulatory company and there's more compliance based, it's not as quick.
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You know,
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you have to be honest about those things because even as an outsider
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looking in though, you may not be that actual internal recruiter
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or even if you are, you need to be able to be transparent and saying,
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Hey, this is what the culture's like in this is what the environment would be.
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Is this something that you would actually be interested?
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Another great example is maybe someone wants to work
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for more of an established company and you're representing the startup
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or a younger company where there's not a lot of things put into place.
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So it's having to work in that ambiguity as well.
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I always like to ask
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about what type of management style you want to work under too, right?
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I mean, no one's, you know, micromanager People don't want to be that.
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Yeah, look, that that'd be so. Yeah.
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Checked it every couple of minutes.
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But do you want someone who will be more
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hands on you want so they'll be a little bit more hands off.
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Like what kind of,
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you know, communication style do you, you know, welcome or look into?
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And then being able to share more about the manager for the role itself,
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also looking at what's going to be most important to them.
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A lot of know people, especially in this most recent years, talk about DNI
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and how important that is and seen that representation in the company.
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Well, if you're also working for an organization
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where it's like, well, we're trying,
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but we haven't established that yet or you know what?
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That's something
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that we need to look into internally, being honest about that, too.
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Or when it comes to that development as well. Right.
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Are they looking to move up
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that corporate ladder to make, hey, I want to be a VP the next five years?
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Well, I don't think that will happen for you. Right.
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You know, there may be already people in those roles.
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So being able to also talk more about the position, saying, listen,
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maybe you're going to be growing
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deep versus wide is another analogy I like to use.
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Right.
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If you're going to grow in your skill set, maybe learn something different.
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Some projects, you know, you're going to grow a little bit deeper,
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but you're not necessarily going to then get that title that you want.
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And then really where they also are in their search.
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And I really like to dig into that.
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I won't get too aggressive and trying to be like,
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Well, where are you interviewing and who are those companies?
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But I want to know too, like,
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you know, where does this position lie in that process?
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Like, are you far along in other interviews?
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How does this role compare?
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How does the company compare?
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And being able to have those conversations, too?
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Because if they're like, you know what, I am pretty far along the process.
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I got this one company that I'm really excited about.
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Well, then why would I want to waste managers time where my client's
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trying to say,
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Hey, if you should still talk to this person
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like they may be out of the market soon enough.
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So being able to really dig into all of that and then
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going into more of the member companies side,
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how do you motivate members Stern and your group process, right?
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Companies. Yes.
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I mean, hiring people can be tough, right?
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And I know a lot of times
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company is especially our members maybe are a little uncertain or hesitant.
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They don't want to make a bad hire, which I completely understand.
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Right.
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There's cost that comes with that and memory clean else.
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But they definitely need to be aware of the market.
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They need to know what the compensation looks like
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and the traction that candidates are getting with other interviews.
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So I always like to share that and be transparent.
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You know, there are tools that you can use
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that can really provide reports of romance, of being able to say, hey,
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look at how many job postings are open
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with the same title that you're looking for, right?
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Like if they're looking
00:12:40:05 - 00:12:43:12
for a senior accountant to be like, look at how many senior accountant positions
00:12:43:12 - 00:12:44:06
are out there.
00:12:44:06 - 00:12:47:09
Look at what their pay look and what they're looking at too.
00:12:47:21 - 00:12:51:03
But from there, also taking to their next step and saying, you know,
00:12:51:03 - 00:12:55:04
how can we at least motivate the process as well and reflect on the position,
00:12:55:12 - 00:12:58:15
you know, can this person do the actual duties that you're looking for?
00:12:58:16 - 00:13:00:15
Will they be a good fit for that team?
00:13:00:15 - 00:13:03:23
You know, how they influence the organization or does that align?
00:13:03:23 - 00:13:06:18
You know, sometimes people, I think, you know, get a little hesitant
00:13:06:18 - 00:13:07:11
because they're like, well,
00:13:07:11 - 00:13:10:17
I like that they did this, but I wasn't sure about this answer.
00:13:10:17 - 00:13:12:02
But it's looking at, well,
00:13:12:02 - 00:13:14:23
can they do the job and will they be a good fit for their.
00:13:15:03 - 00:13:16:03
Yes, they will then.
00:13:16:03 - 00:13:19:08
Okay, let's see, though, take that feedback and move forward.
00:13:19:17 - 00:13:22:20
You know, I always think of the movie, you know, Jerry Maguire, which I know
00:13:22:20 - 00:13:23:12
if you've seen
00:13:24:17 - 00:13:25:08
the guy.
00:13:25:11 - 00:13:25:22
Yeah.
00:13:25:22 - 00:13:29:18
I mean, I guess it was May and it was back in the nineties
00:13:29:18 - 00:13:32:14
has, you know, Tom Cruise, Cuba Gooding Jr.
00:13:33:02 - 00:13:35:19
Renee Zellweger before she you know, had all this stuff done.
00:13:36:05 - 00:13:39:23
But there's a famous quote of like, help me help you, which I feel like
00:13:39:23 - 00:13:43:17
is so much of what we do, because it's like, you know, help me
00:13:43:20 - 00:13:45:09
help you make this decision.
00:13:45:09 - 00:13:48:12
You know, let's make sure that we're not only losing
00:13:48:12 - 00:13:51:08
someone in the process because you're taking too long to decide,
00:13:51:16 - 00:13:55:18
but you're also to be able to provide feedback to people that are in process
00:13:55:18 - 00:13:59:14
and are just looking to hear back because you are be able to close the loop
00:13:59:14 - 00:14:03:00
on those people, too, and give them a good experience overall.
00:14:03:00 - 00:14:06:23
So maybe they will reapply in the future or even to tell people like, Hey,
00:14:06:23 - 00:14:08:17
I had a good experience with this company.
00:14:08:17 - 00:14:10:06
Yeah, I love that quote.
00:14:10:06 - 00:14:12:05
Oh, good example. That's a good one.
00:14:13:07 - 00:14:13:16
Great.
00:14:13:22 - 00:14:15:18
You should definitely see the movie.
00:14:15:18 - 00:14:16:15
Well, now flipping
00:14:16:15 - 00:14:21:00
kind of back over to the candidate side, how do you work on the candidate's behalf
00:14:21:00 - 00:14:25:06
or how do you or what do you do to endorse the candidate? Yes.
00:14:25:08 - 00:14:28:11
Yes. Well, after the thorough phone interview and I'm
00:14:28:11 - 00:14:31:23
putting all my submittal notes together, I really do highlight.
00:14:31:23 - 00:14:35:11
Okay, why is this person good fit for the position right outside of
00:14:35:11 - 00:14:39:03
just like those expectations of like they have this many years of experience.
00:14:39:03 - 00:14:42:09
You know, they have the skill set, you know, talking about their strengths
00:14:42:09 - 00:14:44:22
and weaknesses and being able to highlight that.
00:14:45:05 - 00:14:49:01
I think even to highlight why they're even interested in the company and position.
00:14:49:07 - 00:14:52:19
If a candidate comes to me and has done research on the member,
00:14:52:19 - 00:14:55:14
you know, can talk to me about certain things about what they've done,
00:14:55:19 - 00:14:59:07
I'm like, Well, this means that you actually took that extra offer.
00:14:59:07 - 00:15:03:02
You are really interested, and I'm going to highlight that and say,
00:15:03:02 - 00:15:03:23
Hey, this is why
00:15:03:23 - 00:15:06:23
not only the person's interested, but this is how they could be a good fit
00:15:06:23 - 00:15:10:05
for your team, for your culture, and for your company as well,
00:15:10:13 - 00:15:14:07
and being able to get you to, I would say, advocate for them
00:15:14:07 - 00:15:18:22
in the process too, by reminding the hiring manager of those skills as well
00:15:18:22 - 00:15:22:07
and being able to help them as they're determining that his,
00:15:22:21 - 00:15:24:14
you know, hiring decision.
00:15:24:14 - 00:15:29:15
But I think to also just alerting them and even to sometimes alerting each other
00:15:29:15 - 00:15:34:00
or even to just the member themselves around that timeline and making sure
00:15:34:00 - 00:15:38:06
that they are being aware of the candidate's time as well, because
00:15:38:14 - 00:15:42:06
sometimes that can be a little stressful, especially if they're working full time.
00:15:42:06 - 00:15:45:15
And then you're asking them like, Oh, we'll do this presentation again
00:15:45:15 - 00:15:49:11
and let's try to do right away, or, you know, taking more time away from them.
00:15:49:13 - 00:15:51:11
Yeah, you want to be cognizant of.
00:15:52:14 - 00:15:55:02
So we talk a lot about
00:15:55:10 - 00:15:59:00
what about generational differences here on the podcast.
00:15:59:13 - 00:16:02:06
And we know that you are interviewing
00:16:02:06 - 00:16:06:00
four different generations at once on a day to day basis.
00:16:06:03 - 00:16:11:21
So what are you seeing there and how do you maybe gear different
00:16:11:21 - 00:16:16:01
questions to different generations or what are you seeing?
00:16:16:02 - 00:16:20:16
Yeah, I mean, it's something that as a recruiter we shouldn't have any biases.
00:16:20:16 - 00:16:25:01
So we need to go into every conversation, not really thinking about it.
00:16:25:01 - 00:16:27:05
But I guess after he's saying that, I was like, Whoa,
00:16:27:05 - 00:16:29:08
I should actually reevaluate this a little bit.
00:16:29:20 - 00:16:32:18
And I think the biggest difference that I've seen
00:16:32:18 - 00:16:36:05
is me around like the level of patience and understanding, right?
00:16:36:07 - 00:16:39:18
When you talk to people that are maybe a little bit of the younger generation
00:16:40:02 - 00:16:43:04
who are used to getting the answers right away for gratification,
00:16:43:04 - 00:16:46:14
you know, thanks to the Internet, we want an early answer right away.
00:16:46:19 - 00:16:47:03
You know,
00:16:47:03 - 00:16:51:12
we want to be able to just, you know, kind of get that feedback and move on.
00:16:51:20 - 00:16:54:03
But sometimes things do take time, right?
00:16:54:03 - 00:16:56:04
And if you're waiting to hear back from people,
00:16:56:10 - 00:16:58:22
you know, sometimes it is kind of mad, like, you know,
00:16:59:06 - 00:17:02:03
the answer to saying, hey, when are we going to hear back?
00:17:02:03 - 00:17:04:23
Like, how how should I perceive this individual?
00:17:05:06 - 00:17:09:02
And we may not know right away, but those from a different
00:17:09:02 - 00:17:12:08
generation seem to or I should say the older generation
00:17:13:09 - 00:17:15:15
heavily have more of that understanding.
00:17:15:15 - 00:17:19:06
And they know and they have the patience to say, listen, you're right, like I'm
00:17:19:10 - 00:17:23:04
okay waiting until the end of this week, but anything changes, I'll let you know.
00:17:23:04 - 00:17:25:20
And being able to have those conversations, too.
00:17:25:20 - 00:17:29:17
But I think that would be the biggest question is do you see
00:17:30:12 - 00:17:34:20
you responding differently with different generations
00:17:34:20 - 00:17:39:05
or even like someone who's from a younger generation?
00:17:39:05 - 00:17:43:12
Would you text would you communicate with that differently
00:17:43:22 - 00:17:46:02
or are you seeing more of.
00:17:46:02 - 00:17:49:18
It's a good question to I like to text sometimes regardless
00:17:49:18 - 00:17:53:12
because it's also like a quick way to getting in touch with them.
00:17:53:16 - 00:17:57:01
Of course, I always ask, you know, do you want to talk to them like,
00:17:57:15 - 00:18:01:01
Hey, I have your email address, I'll definitely follow up in the email.
00:18:01:01 - 00:18:03:10
Are you comfortable with me also showing you a text? Yeah.
00:18:03:13 - 00:18:07:17
And if said absolutely them perfect because it's still quick regards.
00:18:07:21 - 00:18:09:13
Yeah. So I know the double word.
00:18:09:13 - 00:18:13:04
So yeah, but I would say that
00:18:13:05 - 00:18:17:03
if they mention their age because some people do,
00:18:17:18 - 00:18:22:17
I do advise them not to do that just because I don't want them then to
00:18:23:02 - 00:18:26:01
maybe then go through that where all of a sudden they mention it
00:18:26:01 - 00:18:29:18
and then people are like, Oh, you're old on the right side.
00:18:29:22 - 00:18:30:08
Yeah.
00:18:30:08 - 00:18:34:03
So I try to get them to maybe rephrase that a little bit
00:18:34:17 - 00:18:37:21
and I try to not to also highlight that, like I may say,
00:18:37:21 - 00:18:42:05
this person has amazing ten year Grammy experience.
00:18:42:05 - 00:18:44:23
You know, about trying not to boast too much.
00:18:45:01 - 00:18:47:10
Yeah, well, that makes sense. I mean, good.
00:18:47:21 - 00:18:51:11
So what is your take on really getting feedback from candidates
00:18:51:11 - 00:18:55:01
and members throughout the recruiting and onboarding process?
00:18:55:09 - 00:18:58:15
Yes, this is always to, I think, a really interesting topic
00:18:58:15 - 00:19:00:19
because we live in a world where people talk
00:19:00:19 - 00:19:02:09
about being ghosted all the time, right?
00:19:02:09 - 00:19:04:19
So how do we try to avoid that?
00:19:04:20 - 00:19:07:15
Yeah, and for me it's constant communication.
00:19:07:21 - 00:19:12:05
You really have to be on top of not only communicating with your member.
00:19:12:05 - 00:19:16:05
I mean, I have meetings with my members weekly where we're talking
00:19:16:05 - 00:19:19:18
about the roles and sales, where we're at, where we need to be.
00:19:20:02 - 00:19:22:06
You know, I will have no problem this.
00:19:22:06 - 00:19:26:03
Yes, I do an email when I was in corporate, I would instant message
00:19:26:09 - 00:19:29:01
if I was also in the same building back when I was in corporate,
00:19:29:01 - 00:19:31:07
I would go to their office like I did not care.
00:19:31:07 - 00:19:33:05
I'll be like, I see you're free right now.
00:19:33:05 - 00:19:35:23
I'm knocking on your door and then asking what is going on?
00:19:36:05 - 00:19:39:16
Because I need to know so that I can amid no's,
00:19:40:02 - 00:19:43:11
but also to I also have no problem picking up a phone, especially now.
00:19:43:12 - 00:19:45:20
And I work with, you know, members all throughout the Midwest.
00:19:45:20 - 00:19:48:22
Here I'm going to pick up the phone and call and say, Hey, what's going on?
00:19:48:22 - 00:19:50:08
Where do we need to be?
00:19:50:08 - 00:19:52:16
Because that is a great way to not only get feedback
00:19:52:16 - 00:19:55:09
and I do the same with my candidates to write.
00:19:55:09 - 00:19:57:07
And, you know, I'm sending those text messages, I'm
00:19:57:07 - 00:20:00:15
doing those calls and emails so that way I can get feedback.
00:20:00:15 - 00:20:02:16
And also to see where they're at as well.
00:20:03:00 - 00:20:06:14
And throughout the onboarding part process, which is so important
00:20:06:14 - 00:20:10:11
when it comes to retention, which I know we've talked about on this podcast too,
00:20:10:19 - 00:20:12:03
you know, it's important to have the person
00:20:12:03 - 00:20:14:10
be immersed in the organization and culture.
00:20:14:10 - 00:20:18:05
So I want to make sure that they feel, you know, not only comfortable, engaged,
00:20:18:05 - 00:20:21:11
but excited, so to say, hey, how is your first, you know,
00:20:22:02 - 00:20:27:17
20 days, how are your first, you know, week, how is your first 60 or 90 days
00:20:27:21 - 00:20:31:09
really making sure that they still feel excited about the position itself?
00:20:31:14 - 00:20:33:04
Yeah, I definitely agree with that.
00:20:33:04 - 00:20:37:10
I feel like the check in is so important
00:20:37:10 - 00:20:40:18
in the recruiting and onboarding, the interviewing process.
00:20:40:18 - 00:20:43:17
Like if you don't hear from a candidate in a couple of days,
00:20:43:17 - 00:20:47:01
it is so important to be like, Hey, like what's going through your mind?
00:20:47:02 - 00:20:47:08
You know?
00:20:47:08 - 00:20:51:17
And it's, you know, like trying to pull stuff out of them,
00:20:51:17 - 00:20:56:20
but just letting them know that, Hey, I'm here for you during this process.
00:20:56:22 - 00:20:57:12
Oh, exactly.
00:20:57:12 - 00:20:58:05
I want everyone
00:20:58:05 - 00:21:02:08
to feel like I'm a resource and that's how I going to go into it, too, Right?
00:21:02:08 - 00:21:03:01
And that's
00:21:03:01 - 00:21:06:15
why even in their onboarding, I'm like, let me know if things are not going well.
00:21:06:15 - 00:21:11:01
Do you feel like this is a way for me to kind of even to know what is going on
00:21:11:01 - 00:21:15:01
internally there and then how I need to make sure that you be successful too?
00:21:15:01 - 00:21:17:07
Sure. So it's looking at it from both sides. Yeah.
00:21:17:23 - 00:21:20:07
So like we mentioned in the title of this
00:21:20:07 - 00:21:23:19
episode is Talent Take over what recruiters Need to know.
00:21:24:04 - 00:21:30:02
So can you close out this episode with one key piece of advice for recruiters?
00:21:30:02 - 00:21:34:08
Yes, I would say my biggest advice is that I want us to be able
00:21:34:08 - 00:21:36:20
to change the narrative a little bit, right?
00:21:36:20 - 00:21:41:02
I think sometimes that, you know, recruiters can get a bad reputation.
00:21:41:22 - 00:21:44:00
You know, we talked about ghosting a little bit.
00:21:44:00 - 00:21:45:03
That is such a huge thing.
00:21:45:03 - 00:21:48:02
If you go on LinkedIn, how many people are posting about it?
00:21:48:02 - 00:21:49:23
And it's always the recruiter, right?
00:21:49:23 - 00:21:52:01
We don't hear. Babb What's going on?
00:21:52:12 - 00:21:53:18
So I get it.
00:21:53:18 - 00:21:56:14
I talked about how being successful or being a recruiter,
00:21:56:14 - 00:21:58:13
you have to be a little bit of a master juggler
00:21:58:13 - 00:22:01:16
and a lot of things, you know, can sometimes fall between the cracks.
00:22:01:16 - 00:22:05:21
We're busy people, we're doing a lot, but being able to, just, as I said,
00:22:05:21 - 00:22:09:17
closely with that candidate, letting them know, hey, at this time
00:22:09:17 - 00:22:13:14
we just had decided to move forward with someone else, you know, or saying,
00:22:13:14 - 00:22:13:20
you know,
00:22:13:20 - 00:22:17:20
thank you for your time and interest those who were unable to proceed at this time.
00:22:17:20 - 00:22:21:05
And when internally, whatever the case may be, just let them.
00:22:21:05 - 00:22:26:07
Now that way people still get that, you know, satisfaction of saying,
00:22:26:07 - 00:22:31:01
you know what, after spending my time and my effort and getting excited
00:22:31:01 - 00:22:35:19
about this, I'm able to at least say, Hey, this is why I didn't get the role.
00:22:36:02 - 00:22:39:05
And it leads to you get that reassurance from the recruiter.
00:22:39:05 - 00:22:40:02
And I'm like, you know,
00:22:40:02 - 00:22:43:19
I can continue to work with you and let's, you know, keep conversation going.
00:22:44:11 - 00:22:45:23
But it's just nice timing.
00:22:45:23 - 00:22:47:02
Is that appropriate at this time?
00:22:47:02 - 00:22:49:14
So, yes, let's change the narrative.
00:22:49:14 - 00:22:54:09
Let's get back to people and we'll sub go stay in general.
00:22:54:23 - 00:22:56:02
Good advice time.
00:22:56:02 - 00:23:00:19
I beg you guys, I want to thank you for being our guest
00:23:01:01 - 00:23:04:23
on 30 minute drive and sharing your knowledge and expertise on recruiting
00:23:04:23 - 00:23:10:03
and how companies really should be adapting recruiting habits and techniques.
00:23:10:03 - 00:23:14:13
So if you liked our chat today, make sure to share this episode.
00:23:14:14 - 00:23:18:15
Leave a comment, review, and a rating and consider joining MRA,
00:23:18:15 - 00:23:20:18
If you aren't a member already.
00:23:20:18 - 00:23:23:13
We have all the resources you need in the show notes below,
00:23:23:21 - 00:23:26:18
including Jennifer's bio and LinkedIn profile.
00:23:26:18 - 00:23:30:23
So make sure to follow her, connect with her or get in touch with her.
00:23:31:07 - 00:23:32:02
Otherwise.
00:23:32:02 - 00:23:35:18
Thank you so much for tuning in today and we will see you next week.
00:23:36:00 - 00:23:38:18
And that wraps up our content for this episode.
00:23:38:18 - 00:23:40:14
Be sure to reference the show notes
00:23:40:14 - 00:23:43:14
where you can sign up to connect for more podcast updates.
00:23:43:14 - 00:23:47:09
Check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform.
00:23:47:09 - 00:23:52:09
And as always, make sure to follow MRA's 30 minutes Thrive, so you don't miss out.
00:23:52:09 - 00:23:53:11
Thanks for tuning in
00:23:53:11 - 00:23:56:23
and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the HR conversation.
24 min
March 22, 2023Spring Training: It’s Time to Win
Description:
It's time to win with training! Mike Connell, MRA Learning & Development Instructor, is here to ensure you are engaging in the current top-of-the-line training practices. We'll go over training opportunities for companies, how to keep people engaged during training sessions, and how the evolution of training affects you and your success.
Key Takeaways:
"If you want to have success, figure out what things you need to do every day that will lead to that success."
Keep generations in mind when training - think about background, experience, and motivators.
Training is a two-way street! Participants have as much as an active role as the instructor.
Resources:
Learning & Development
MRA Membership
About MRA
Let's Connect:
Guest Bio - Mike Connell
Guest LinkedIn Profile - Mike Connell
Host Bio - Sophie Boler
Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler
Transcript:
Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word.
00:00:00:01 - 00:00:03:10
Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive,
00:00:03:10 - 00:00:06:20
your go to podcast for anything and everything HR.
00:00:06:21 - 00:00:09:22
Powered by MRA, the Management Association
00:00:09:23 - 00:00:12:23
looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR?
00:00:12:23 - 00:00:14:18
MRA has got you covered.
00:00:14:18 - 00:00:17:15
We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not.
00:00:17:16 - 00:00:21:03
I'm your host, Sophie Boler and we are so glad you're here.
00:00:21:04 - 00:00:23:01
Now it's time to thrive.
00:00:23:01 - 00:00:25:17
Welcome to this episode of 30 Minute Thrive.
00:00:25:17 - 00:00:29:18
We're happy you're here, and I'm excited to talk about training to win today
00:00:29:18 - 00:00:31:00
with Mike Connell.
00:00:31:00 - 00:00:33:20
He's our learning and development instructor here at MRA.
00:00:34:04 - 00:00:37:15
And if you aren't familiar with Mike, he has over 30 years
00:00:37:15 - 00:00:41:14
of professional experience and has been an entrepreneur and manager
00:00:41:14 - 00:00:45:19
in manufacturing, banking and asset management, real estate,
00:00:46:03 - 00:00:49:22
franchise restaurants and powersports dealerships.
00:00:49:22 - 00:00:53:23
And in addition to being a learning and development instructor at MRA,
00:00:54:07 - 00:00:58:06
Mike has also coached high school and college football for over 20 years.
00:00:58:15 - 00:01:01:06
So he comes with a lot of experience and today
00:01:01:06 - 00:01:04:06
he'll really be highlighting his coaching and training background.
00:01:04:15 - 00:01:06:21
So thanks for being on the podcast today, Mike.
00:01:06:21 - 00:01:07:22
Excited to talk with you.
00:01:07:22 - 00:01:10:06
I am as well. Cool.
00:01:10:06 - 00:01:11:05
Well, I want to start off
00:01:11:05 - 00:01:15:07
by asking how you really incorporate your coaching background to your training.
00:01:15:13 - 00:01:19:03
I think the thing that's probably closest between them is I'm
00:01:19:03 - 00:01:22:06
a proponent of individualization, so
00:01:23:22 - 00:01:25:01
even though, you know,
00:01:25:01 - 00:01:27:20
I might have 60 football players
00:01:29:00 - 00:01:31:16
and you know, generally as a football coach
00:01:32:05 - 00:01:36:02
between high school and college 15 to 22 year old young men.
00:01:36:15 - 00:01:39:07
So a lot of similarities in that regard.
00:01:39:07 - 00:01:40:12
But still,
00:01:40:12 - 00:01:44:16
you know, kind of individualizing what they're teaching, what we're doing.
00:01:45:09 - 00:01:46:18
Same thing in the classroom.
00:01:46:18 - 00:01:51:22
You know, I obviously I've got 20 people in their managers or leads.
00:01:52:17 - 00:01:55:17
They all in different backgrounds, experiences, things like that.
00:01:55:17 - 00:01:59:01
So I try to incorporate a lot of things that will
00:01:59:17 - 00:02:03:15
potentially provide the learning for everyone there.
00:02:03:15 - 00:02:08:21
So flexing the different communication styles,
00:02:08:21 - 00:02:11:10
you know, just different folks, how they communicate,
00:02:11:23 - 00:02:15:12
motivation, you know, why they're there and what they're trying to get out of it.
00:02:15:12 - 00:02:18:12
And so I'm trying to figure out, you know, what that is
00:02:18:14 - 00:02:21:13
and give it to them whenever possible.
00:02:21:13 - 00:02:22:20
Yeah, absolutely.
00:02:22:20 - 00:02:25:14
So we'll be talking about coaching and training today.
00:02:25:14 - 00:02:29:13
So can you kind of give a little overview on the difference between
00:02:29:13 - 00:02:32:13
coaching and training coaching?
00:02:32:13 - 00:02:34:19
It’s funny because probably in the last ten years
00:02:34:19 - 00:02:38:03
I see all these books on leadership and management.
00:02:38:03 - 00:02:40:22
It's coaching coaching coach at your own term.
00:02:40:22 - 00:02:45:05
And I think a lot of ways it becomes the catch all, you know, where it's like
00:02:45:11 - 00:02:49:04
that's sort of everything we say, Well, that's conflict management or that's
00:02:49:07 - 00:02:50:16
where everything's kind of coaching.
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I would say
00:02:52:15 - 00:02:57:07
probably the biggest commonality in the way I view them is,
00:02:57:07 - 00:03:01:17
you know, whether it's coaching or training, it's making someone better.
00:03:01:22 - 00:03:06:00
Number one is whether it's football or management training, it's
00:03:06:00 - 00:03:07:11
participation sports.
00:03:07:11 - 00:03:12:08
So I always tell all the classes before we begin, I have two rules.
00:03:12:18 - 00:03:17:08
So and the first one is this is participation, right?
00:03:17:08 - 00:03:18:21
This is not a spectator sport.
00:03:18:21 - 00:03:20:12
So we're going to participate.
00:03:20:12 - 00:03:24:08
So obviously football, that's the key to their spectators,
00:03:24:08 - 00:03:26:11
but they're just not on the team. Right.
00:03:26:11 - 00:03:28:11
Very similar in that regard.
00:03:28:20 - 00:03:32:23
When people are trained, they need to have responsibility
00:03:32:23 - 00:03:34:09
for their role in it as well.
00:03:34:09 - 00:03:37:09
I'm no different than a player, You know, in executing, so
00:03:38:07 - 00:03:40:18
I think that's similar in those regards.
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Yeah, for sure.
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When we're talking about training, it's really evolved over the years.
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We're now we have remote training options and in-person and hybrid options even.
00:03:51:18 - 00:03:55:11
So how do you think it's really evolved over the years
00:03:55:11 - 00:03:58:17
and has it become more of a necessity now, would you say?
00:03:58:17 - 00:04:00:13
Or what are your thoughts on that?
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Well, so before I was a trainer, when I was a manager,
00:04:04:09 - 00:04:07:09
especially a young manager, somebody thought it was a really good idea
00:04:07:09 - 00:04:10:21
to make me a manager in my early twenties, I don’t know what they were thinking.
00:04:10:21 - 00:04:13:02
That's a great idea. To tell you the truth.
00:04:13:04 - 00:04:18:06
So, I mean, what it was is it's very similar to a lot of people.
00:04:18:06 - 00:04:22:00
I, I had success in a role.
00:04:22:02 - 00:04:25:22
So you know, typical is okay well you're good at doing the job,
00:04:25:22 - 00:04:29:22
so why don't you lead Some people do without necessarily
00:04:29:22 - 00:04:34:05
recognizing totally different skill set, leading people versus
00:04:34:10 - 00:04:38:21
you know, I was good at selling who's good at some of the things I did there.
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And so
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I think as
00:04:41:02 - 00:04:45:19
far as training and evolving in that, you know, I've been the trainer here
00:04:45:19 - 00:04:48:22
for five years and so, I mean, we just went through code.
00:04:49:03 - 00:04:51:23
So obviously there is some evolution there.
00:04:52:02 - 00:04:57:03
We were essentially a 99.9% in person training operation
00:04:57:11 - 00:04:59:21
to going 100% virtual.
00:05:00:04 - 00:05:03:15
And we like to joke in our department that we have a five year plan
00:05:03:22 - 00:05:08:21
to get to maybe 25 to 30% virtual.
00:05:09:05 - 00:05:14:09
And the five year plan became a five week plan and it went 100%.
00:05:14:09 - 00:05:16:22
So I would say that was obviously a big thing.
00:05:16:22 - 00:05:21:07
But I think even prior to that and over the years, I was always,
00:05:21:18 - 00:05:25:09
I would say, like a learning junkie, something I learned from my dad
00:05:25:20 - 00:05:30:16
if he was the most unbelievable, self-taught person I've ever.
00:05:30:22 - 00:05:33:18
I mean, he was always just learning and open to that.
00:05:33:18 - 00:05:36:20
And he was he was a self-taught engineer, which is not very typical.
00:05:37:09 - 00:05:39:04
And so and he was an entrepreneur.
00:05:39:04 - 00:05:40:22
And, you know, his
00:05:40:22 - 00:05:44:08
dad wasn't a business owner or anything, so he had to learn a lot of that.
00:05:44:18 - 00:05:49:01
So I think probably the biggest difference and I even hear it
00:05:49:01 - 00:05:53:12
now, some of the older participants will come in, our class will offer about
00:05:54:18 - 00:05:56:22
they'll they'll refer to the classes like a seminar.
00:05:57:04 - 00:05:59:16
They'll use certain weird lingo. Yeah.
00:05:59:17 - 00:06:04:14
And also that well, like this seminar, I'm like Jay or, you know, it's
00:06:04:14 - 00:06:08:01
sort of like the webinar saying people will call our Zoom training webinar.
00:06:08:01 - 00:06:09:01
I'm like, This is not a webinar.
00:06:09:01 - 00:06:11:03
And so for everything.
00:06:11:03 - 00:06:13:17
So I think a lot of it is people are used to more
00:06:13:20 - 00:06:16:22
in the past, maybe a little bit more of the seminar thing
00:06:16:22 - 00:06:21:19
where there was a spectator element and we just that's not our brand.
00:06:21:19 - 00:06:25:13
We don't, you know, adult learning methodology, right?
00:06:25:13 - 00:06:26:20
You involve the learner.
00:06:26:20 - 00:06:29:15
So I think
00:06:29:15 - 00:06:31:17
I would have loved a lot more of that.
00:06:31:17 - 00:06:33:21
I got value training.
00:06:33:21 - 00:06:35:00
I did that.
00:06:35:00 - 00:06:38:19
Several things that I actually teach now that we share at MRA
00:06:38:21 - 00:06:42:05
are things that I learned, you know, from folks long time ago.
00:06:42:10 - 00:06:44:08
But I think it's a little different how we.
00:06:44:08 - 00:06:45:12
Yeah, talking about.
00:06:45:12 - 00:06:48:16
And you just mentioned your older participants
00:06:49:00 - 00:06:52:15
and we've actually had a lot of conversation on the podcast.
00:06:52:20 - 00:06:54:06
Generational differences.
00:06:54:06 - 00:06:57:08
And so how does that really play a role in training?
00:06:57:08 - 00:07:01:01
Like how how do you train for different generations?
00:07:01:09 - 00:07:04:22
I like to say with generations, if you actually lay out
00:07:04:22 - 00:07:09:05
everything that we think is generational and I used to do this
00:07:09:05 - 00:07:13:00
activity in the classroom, we had a class where we can teach
00:07:13:00 - 00:07:16:06
and specifically on generation and people would go around
00:07:16:06 - 00:07:17:11
and they would write things
00:07:17:11 - 00:07:20:19
they think of with different generations on flip charts.
00:07:21:03 - 00:07:24:00
And then I would have them go back around and I would say,
00:07:24:00 - 00:07:28:06
I want you to mark next to each one what's actually
00:07:29:01 - 00:07:31:19
what you think is a true generational difference
00:07:32:04 - 00:07:35:14
versus mature and not maturity
00:07:35:14 - 00:07:38:21
and immature versus mature, but just like time on the earth.
00:07:38:23 - 00:07:41:11
Yeah, mature and experience and all that.
00:07:41:20 - 00:07:46:06
And it was crazy because we would have 75% of the chart would be mature
00:07:46:20 - 00:07:50:12
where yeah that's not really right You know, you take my baby boomers,
00:07:50:14 - 00:07:53:16
you know, we think of certain things that we would say younger all, well,
00:07:53:19 - 00:07:56:15
you know rebellious teen will listen to authority and all that Well,
00:07:56:21 - 00:07:58:22
anybody paying attention to the 1960s,
00:08:00:02 - 00:08:02:21
it's a lot of stuff of rebellion and that going on.
00:08:02:21 - 00:08:06:17
So I think a lot of the stuff we think is
00:08:06:17 - 00:08:10:01
generational has more to do with just how much experience.
00:08:10:08 - 00:08:15:07
So when people come in the classroom with some of those differences,
00:08:15:07 - 00:08:17:12
I think a lot of it is
00:08:19:04 - 00:08:22:16
a lot of it is sort of their expectations and experience.
00:08:22:23 - 00:08:27:19
And so what I try to do is, number one, just understand.
00:08:27:19 - 00:08:30:09
And now it's a little easier for me because I do have a little bit of that
00:08:30:09 - 00:08:33:22
shared experience with, you know, folks who've been around for a while.
00:08:33:22 - 00:08:37:14
And so I remember the command and control bosses,
00:08:38:00 - 00:08:41:16
the ones that come in and I say that because I said so.
00:08:42:15 - 00:08:45:20
And whereas younger people, that's maybe a little more foreign,
00:08:46:02 - 00:08:48:16
you know, it's a little bit more collaborative environments.
00:08:48:16 - 00:08:52:03
And then and so just sort of working to
00:08:53:14 - 00:08:55:10
some might say, to
00:08:55:10 - 00:08:58:19
try to bridge that gap is
00:08:58:19 - 00:09:02:21
I don't really necessarily buy into the old school, new school.
00:09:02:21 - 00:09:03:22
You know, we hear that a lot.
00:09:03:22 - 00:09:06:03
Like, yeah, old school, new school.
00:09:06:03 - 00:09:09:16
What I say is there's things we've gotten away with in the past, right?
00:09:09:16 - 00:09:14:08
So when unemployment is double digits, people move jobs.
00:09:14:08 - 00:09:15:09
It's a little different, right?
00:09:15:09 - 00:09:17:09
We haven't had that for the last few years.
00:09:17:17 - 00:09:21:10
Definitely an employee market in terms of their services.
00:09:21:12 - 00:09:24:05
And so we do things different because of that.
00:09:24:07 - 00:09:27:10
I think good leadership has always been good leadership right
00:09:27:12 - 00:09:28:06
through throughout time.
00:09:28:06 - 00:09:31:02
And so I try to bring, no matter what the generation or try
00:09:31:02 - 00:09:34:09
to bring the training back to what's what's just the right thing we should do.
00:09:34:09 - 00:09:36:00
Yeah, that's a good point.
00:09:36:00 - 00:09:40:12
So this next question is probably a hard one to answer because there's probably
00:09:40:12 - 00:09:45:09
so many things, but what is really your favorite part about training
00:09:47:06 - 00:09:47:21
or coaching?
00:09:47:21 - 00:09:49:11
Others. sure.
00:09:49:11 - 00:09:51:18
I like the people
00:09:52:20 - 00:09:54:12
I would love to say.
00:09:54:12 - 00:09:56:16
So I've been in a lot of different industries.
00:09:56:16 - 00:09:58:14
It's when you read my bio.
00:09:58:14 - 00:10:01:12
Yeah. Wow, insane.
00:10:01:12 - 00:10:04:06
Who would ever have a career like that, right?
00:10:05:06 - 00:10:09:07
And part of it is so looking back, I'm not a, you know, the widget.
00:10:09:07 - 00:10:12:06
And is that still a term? Yeah, right.
00:10:12:14 - 00:10:13:14
I'm not a widget.
00:10:13:14 - 00:10:15:18
I can get excited about anything.
00:10:15:20 - 00:10:19:16
I got an economics professor gave us this, you know, thing.
00:10:19:16 - 00:10:22:22
It's how a pencils made and and a particular reason
00:10:22:22 - 00:10:25:01
why you had to read that book. It's like two pages.
00:10:25:01 - 00:10:26:07
It's. It's amazing.
00:10:26:07 - 00:10:28:23
I mean, there's 17 different products and all this.
00:10:29:06 - 00:10:31:04
I'm get excited about anything.
00:10:31:04 - 00:10:36:05
I've always considered myself on the people side, on the relational side.
00:10:36:12 - 00:10:38:07
And so obviously that's
00:10:38:07 - 00:10:42:12
why I moved into management, you know, business ownership and that,
00:10:43:01 - 00:10:46:08
but not because I'm I can get passionate about any product.
00:10:46:08 - 00:10:48:12
For me, the thing that's constant is people.
00:10:48:12 - 00:10:51:08
And so with training, it's the same thing.
00:10:51:08 - 00:10:54:09
I get as much sometimes
00:10:54:09 - 00:10:56:22
more from them than than vice versa.
00:10:57:15 - 00:11:00:04
I love that it's different.
00:11:00:04 - 00:11:03:00
Every year is different. People in the classroom.
00:11:03:00 - 00:11:07:10
I go out and do on sites at companies and get to meet people and just,
00:11:07:21 - 00:11:12:00
you know, and so many similarities at same time running, conflict,
00:11:12:04 - 00:11:15:05
all things, miscommunication, all that.
00:11:15:12 - 00:11:17:13
But just the people element is so different.
00:11:17:13 - 00:11:19:12
So I yeah, I love that part.
00:11:19:12 - 00:11:24:05
And kind of going off of this question do you have any fun stories you can share
00:11:24:05 - 00:11:29:17
like success stories from people you've helped or coached or trained?
00:11:29:17 - 00:11:33:06
My favorite thing to have is when people contact me
00:11:33:12 - 00:11:35:22
like linkedIn to enter through email and they're like,
00:11:36:17 - 00:11:40:19
not even like, Hey, it was a great class, but I have this problem.
00:11:41:00 - 00:11:41:17
Can you help me?
00:11:41:17 - 00:11:43:15
You know, just interested what you think.
00:11:43:15 - 00:11:46:09
And I eat that stuff up. I love it.
00:11:47:14 - 00:11:49:22
And I
00:11:50:05 - 00:11:54:05
probably the one that to this day, the class I taught that had
00:11:54:05 - 00:11:58:19
the most universal is not what you would necessarily think
00:11:58:19 - 00:12:01:21
because you think conflict management or coaching, you know, this kind of stuff.
00:12:02:03 - 00:12:05:22
So I had a company i did training for and their HR Manager
00:12:05:22 - 00:12:10:15
actually was in a class we teach here and half day class called business email.
00:12:10:19 - 00:12:11:08
Okay.
00:12:11:08 - 00:12:14:11
And he was in there and he comes up to me at the end of class, he goes,
00:12:14:11 - 00:12:19:03
we have to do this in our company cuz we got lots issues, right?
00:12:19:04 - 00:12:19:14
Yeah.
00:12:19:14 - 00:12:23:21
And I would say you get offenders, just people who do like this stuff,
00:12:23:22 - 00:12:25:18
like the reply all yeah, right.
00:12:25:18 - 00:12:29:20
From everything or CC everybody in the company is we got lot.
00:12:30:06 - 00:12:33:01
So it's just you know can you come out and he said, but here's the challenge.
00:12:33:01 - 00:12:35:20
We have 75 people I want to put through this training
00:12:36:07 - 00:12:38:14
and our room fits 25
00:12:39:01 - 00:12:43:12
and I don't have the budget to do three half days.
00:12:43:12 - 00:12:45:14
Can you do a one hour version?
00:12:45:14 - 00:12:47:19
I was like, that's that's a lift.
00:12:47:19 - 00:12:48:12
No, that's.
00:12:48:12 - 00:12:50:13
A little bit sorry, Let me see.
00:12:50:13 - 00:12:51:13
I'll work it out.
00:12:51:13 - 00:12:54:20
It's a little more presentation, but there's still some interaction stuff.
00:12:54:23 - 00:12:56:16
But I'm like, okay, let's hit the highlights.
00:12:56:16 - 00:13:00:15
And we went through I got done with that class
00:13:00:15 - 00:13:04:07
and I imagine there was four, six months after another company
00:13:04:07 - 00:13:07:02
also sent some of their other managers to other training.
00:13:07:02 - 00:13:11:12
I heard more positive feedback about a business email class.
00:13:11:14 - 00:13:15:23
Yeah, Mike It's changed the culture, how people aren’t doing the stuff
00:13:15:23 - 00:13:18:04
that drives me crazy. Yeah. Anymore. Right?
00:13:18:08 - 00:13:19:07
It's all these things.
00:13:19:07 - 00:13:21:18
And I thought, well, it's communication, right?
00:13:21:18 - 00:13:22:14
I mean, even though we call it
00:13:22:14 - 00:13:25:09
business email, it's really like communication issue.
00:13:25:14 - 00:13:29:10
And so I would say I get a lot of great feedback, but that class to this day
00:13:29:10 - 00:13:33:07
just stands out as the one probably like you changed their company culture.
00:13:33:10 - 00:13:34:12
Well, that's got to be a great feeling though.
00:13:34:12 - 00:13:36:18
You'll all be like, What was it?
00:13:36:18 - 00:13:37:09
It does.
00:13:37:09 - 00:13:39:22
just of all the classes. Business email.
00:13:39:22 - 00:13:42:15
One hour presentation, right?
00:13:43:01 - 00:13:46:04
Yeah, well, it has a great effect on people. So.
00:13:46:23 - 00:13:50:16
So how do you really keep people engaged in your trainings?
00:13:50:16 - 00:13:52:15
How do you keep them interesting?
00:13:52:15 - 00:13:56:08
Like you said, some of them are half days, some of them are full days.
00:13:56:08 - 00:14:00:16
How do you keep people energetic to learn throughout the day?
00:14:01:21 - 00:14:04:06
Well, one thing and you can probably if you talk
00:14:04:06 - 00:14:08:02
to any of the instructors around here, we would all say the same thing.
00:14:08:02 - 00:14:11:18
We're tired at the end of the day, so you have to bring your energy.
00:14:11:18 - 00:14:13:10
Yeah, that's a big part.
00:14:13:10 - 00:14:16:03
And one of the things for me and this is just something
00:14:16:03 - 00:14:20:06
I bring from management, I'm not necessarily that, you know,
00:14:21:07 - 00:14:24:10
hi, you're bouncing off the walls and I'm not.
00:14:24:15 - 00:14:26:00
Eeyore either, right?
00:14:26:00 - 00:14:28:01
I try to be pretty consistent.
00:14:28:22 - 00:14:33:15
I think the biggest thing is, is I'm having conversations with people.
00:14:34:01 - 00:14:38:01
So probably the biggest thing I would say in in the sessions
00:14:38:01 - 00:14:41:11
I do is we're just we're working through material.
00:14:41:18 - 00:14:42:06
Right.
00:14:42:06 - 00:14:48:00
But I told the classes, you know, I want all the questions.
00:14:48:23 - 00:14:51:20
I don't want everybody leaving here with something that didn't get asked.
00:14:52:06 - 00:14:54:09
And I tell them this, trust me, I'm good enough.
00:14:54:09 - 00:14:55:13
I'll get us back on track.
00:14:55:13 - 00:14:55:18
Yeah.
00:14:55:18 - 00:14:58:03
And hopefully, you know, we'll get there.
00:14:58:17 - 00:15:01:23
But the biggest thing is, you know, it's interactive.
00:15:02:03 - 00:15:07:18
So we are I'm asking questions, looking for those interactions,
00:15:07:18 - 00:15:12:23
those answers we do a lot of obviously with adult learning, we do activities.
00:15:13:01 - 00:15:13:08
Right.
00:15:13:08 - 00:15:16:04
Well, I just start a class this week on conflict management.
00:15:16:04 - 00:15:20:10
I literally hand them scenarios and sit down in groups
00:15:20:10 - 00:15:25:14
and they role play out conflict and so we do
00:15:25:14 - 00:15:28:22
a lot of things that keep it interactive and then we debrief those things.
00:15:28:22 - 00:15:31:01
But I think the big thing is just,
00:15:31:06 - 00:15:34:17
you know, don't to me, it's not a stage anymore.
00:15:34:17 - 00:15:35:13
It's not an event.
00:15:35:13 - 00:15:37:13
It's just it's training.
00:15:37:13 - 00:15:38:11
It's coaching.
00:15:38:11 - 00:15:41:06
It's no different than I would do one on one with somebody.
00:15:41:13 - 00:15:43:04
It's just with a. Group of people.
00:15:43:04 - 00:15:43:21
Yeah.
00:15:43:21 - 00:15:45:21
I like the point that you brought up on.
00:15:46:19 - 00:15:49:19
The participants have to bring their energy to like it's
00:15:49:19 - 00:15:54:02
a two way thing, you know, like if you want to attend a training,
00:15:54:02 - 00:15:57:17
you got to be ready for it and do your homework and prepare for it.
00:15:57:17 - 00:16:00:10
And if you want to get a good outcome from it.
00:16:00:10 - 00:16:01:17
So that's a good point.
00:16:01:17 - 00:16:06:18
Well, they're managing people, so you're not going to sit down and coach
00:16:07:04 - 00:16:11:01
one of your employees just, hey, come on in here.
00:16:11:01 - 00:16:13:10
Let's just have a random conversation.
00:16:13:10 - 00:16:14:21
You have a plan.
00:16:14:21 - 00:16:16:20
So I have a plan when I walk in the class.
00:16:16:20 - 00:16:20:15
But at the same time, my plan includes a lot of flexibility
00:16:20:15 - 00:16:24:20
because every class is different and I think people can tell
00:16:24:20 - 00:16:28:02
when you have that, people can tell the difference between can training.
00:16:28:02 - 00:16:30:22
And I think that's really MRA’s this is what we do.
00:16:30:22 - 00:16:33:17
Our instructor staff is unbelievable.
00:16:33:23 - 00:16:39:09
We, we, we might teach the same material, but I don't know that
00:16:39:09 - 00:16:44:03
we ever teach it exactly the same way, because every class is different.
00:16:44:03 - 00:16:46:22
As we close out our episode for today,
00:16:47:12 - 00:16:49:22
the title of this episode is Spring Training.
00:16:49:22 - 00:16:51:08
It's time to Win.
00:16:51:08 - 00:16:54:23
So how would you say that you train to win?
00:16:56:03 - 00:16:58:06
That is an interesting question. Yes.
00:16:58:20 - 00:17:02:05
So I've never had winning as a goal.
00:17:02:05 - 00:17:04:00
I actually think it’s terrible.
00:17:04:00 - 00:17:06:21
Winning as a result, training to win,
00:17:07:11 - 00:17:10:04
managing to win, whatever you are.
00:17:10:04 - 00:17:11:23
PARTICIPANT Anybody in it.
00:17:11:23 - 00:17:15:07
What I tell them is do the things that lead to winning.
00:17:16:04 - 00:17:17:05
In football.
00:17:17:05 - 00:17:19:09
There are situations where
00:17:20:21 - 00:17:24:00
at the end of the game we lost a game
00:17:24:07 - 00:17:27:10
and I will tell the team you played a tremendous game
00:17:28:06 - 00:17:32:21
and there are other games where we won by 38 points and I'm not happy
00:17:33:10 - 00:17:37:13
because we should have won by 50 because just level and the talent there.
00:17:38:00 - 00:17:43:06
I don't ever gauge it on anything but for my people, right?
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So because I know if I'm a good manager or if I'm a good coach,
00:17:46:17 - 00:17:50:21
I know what the levels and abilities of my people are.
00:17:51:03 - 00:17:54:20
So sometimes the scoreboard is your worst enemy
00:17:55:02 - 00:17:57:05
when it comes to coaching or teaching
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because you look up and you're like, Hey, we won the game.
00:17:59:07 - 00:18:03:17
It's great and it's like, But does that mean you actually did your best, right?
00:18:03:17 - 00:18:06:00
There are some situations where in football
00:18:06:00 - 00:18:08:01
you just weren’t talented, right?
00:18:08:06 - 00:18:12:22
There's some cases where I've coached employees that are so easy to coach.
00:18:13:04 - 00:18:16:12
You know, I've coached those rock stars where it's literally
00:18:16:17 - 00:18:21:18
I could be a semi terrible manager and they're still gonna have success.
00:18:21:20 - 00:18:22:17
And then I've had people
00:18:22:17 - 00:18:27:00
that took every ounce of every technique and everything that I knew.
00:18:27:06 - 00:18:31:03
So for me, if you want to win, if you want to have success,
00:18:31:10 - 00:18:36:19
figure out what things you need to do every day that lead to that.
00:18:37:01 - 00:18:39:15
And then what happens, happens.
00:18:39:15 - 00:18:42:14
And yeah, do I believe in KPIs and measurements?
00:18:42:14 - 00:18:44:04
Yeah, I was in manufacturing.
00:18:44:04 - 00:18:46:19
Clearly, we have to have those,
00:18:46:19 - 00:18:50:03
but those measurements should be based off of the things you're doing
00:18:50:03 - 00:18:53:18
on a regular basis, not just that thing at the end of the year, the month.
00:18:54:01 - 00:18:57:02
So it's just, you know, coach your folks,
00:18:57:12 - 00:19:00:00
you know, lead by example,
00:19:00:02 - 00:19:03:20
do those things all day, every day lead to success.
00:19:04:01 - 00:19:06:06
And then scoreboard is what the scoreboard is.
00:19:07:06 - 00:19:09:14
Oh, well, that's great advice to anyone.
00:19:09:14 - 00:19:10:22
So thank you for that
00:19:10:22 - 00:19:14:19
and thank you for being on 30 minute Thrive today and sharing your knowledge,
00:19:14:19 - 00:19:18:23
your background, your expertise on coaching and training.
00:19:18:23 - 00:19:23:03
So if you liked our chat today, make sure to share this episode.
00:19:23:03 - 00:19:27:05
Leave a comment review or rating in Consider joining MRA.
00:19:27:05 - 00:19:29:10
If you aren't a member already.
00:19:29:10 - 00:19:30:14
We have all the resources
00:19:30:14 - 00:19:33:08
you need in the show notes below, so take a look at those.
00:19:33:18 - 00:19:38:01
And we've also included Mike's bio email and LinkedIn profile.
00:19:38:01 - 00:19:41:16
So if you want to get in touch with him, sure, he'd be happy to connect
00:19:42:17 - 00:19:44:00
all of them that.
00:19:44:00 - 00:19:46:15
Thanks for tuning in and we will see you next week.
00:19:46:22 - 00:19:49:16
And that wraps up our content for this episode.
00:19:49:17 - 00:19:52:21
Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign them to connect.
00:19:52:21 - 00:19:54:12
For more podcast updates,
00:19:54:12 - 00:19:58:07
check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform.
00:19:58:07 - 00:20:03:06
And as always, make sure to follow MRA’s 30 minutes Thrive so you don't miss out.
00:20:03:07 - 00:20:06:06
Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry
00:20:06:06 - 00:20:07:21
on the HR conversation.
21 min
March 15, 2023Keeping Your Best: Strategies for Employee Retention
Description:
This episode delves into the importance of training and retaining your greatest assets - your employees. We discuss how investing in employee training and development can enhance their skills and knowledge and increase their job satisfaction and loyalty to the organization.
Our guest for this episode is Jim Morgan, Vice President, Business Development & Workforce Strategies. He shares insights into MRA's March Talent Report, which includes trends from recruiting & retention, top creative HR strategies, c-suite level happenings, and more.
Whether you are an HR professional, a manager, or an employee looking to enhance your skills and advance your career, this episode offers valuable insights and practical tips for training and retaining your greatest assets. Join us as we explore the importance of investing in your employees and building a culture of continuous learning.
Key Takeaways:
Companies are teaching about the challenges that come with change—letting go of control, getting teams to buy in, communication, not understanding the “why” of the change, thus preparing their staff to handle the disruption.
Generational diversity training is showing up more and more in corporate learning and development.
Some companies have included developing the preferred organizational chart during their strategic planning,
and using it as a guide when making key hires.
Resources:
Talent Report + Webinar Series
March Talent Report +
MRA Membership
About MRA
Let's Connect:
Guest Bio - Jim Morgan
Guest LinkedIn Profile - Jim Morgan
Host Bio - Sophie Boler
Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler

Transcript:
Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word.
00:00:00:01 - 00:00:03:10
Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive,
00:00:03:10 - 00:00:06:20
your go to podcast for anything and everything HR.
00:00:06:21 - 00:00:09:21
powered by MRA, the Management Association
00:00:09:23 - 00:00:12:23
looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR?
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MRA has got you covered.
00:00:14:18 - 00:00:17:16
We'll be the first, to tell you what's hot and what's not.
00:00:17:16 - 00:00:21:03
I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here.
00:00:21:04 - 00:00:22:23
Now it's time to thrive.
00:00:22:23 - 00:00:25:11
Welcome to this episode of 30 Minute Thrive.
00:00:25:17 - 00:00:29:08
We're happy you're here, and I'm excited to give you the latest information on
00:00:29:08 - 00:00:34:03
all things Talent related is our guest, Jim Morgan, vice president of Workforce
00:00:34:03 - 00:00:38:19
Strategies here at MRA, covers the March edition of MRA’s Talent Report.
00:00:39:07 - 00:00:42:18
So if you aren't familiar with the monthly talent report, Jim
00:00:42:18 - 00:00:46:17
Morgan gives an up to the minute review of what's going on in the world of business
00:00:46:17 - 00:00:51:13
with an emphasis on talent, which is based on input from CEOs, CFOs
00:00:51:13 - 00:00:55:19
and HR leaders from MRA's 3000 plus member companies,
00:00:56:01 - 00:00:59:22
1000 roundtable participants and subject matter experts.
00:01:00:10 - 00:01:02:09
So thanks for coming on the podcast, Jim.
00:01:02:09 - 00:01:02:23
My pleasure.
00:01:02:23 - 00:01:03:18
Good to be back.
00:01:03:18 - 00:01:05:16
So so let's really kick off
00:01:05:16 - 00:01:09:04
the conversation with what's happening in the recruiting retention world.
00:01:09:12 - 00:01:13:18
And I know that staying on top of mental health needs is always been a priority
00:01:13:18 - 00:01:14:18
for HR.
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and employers, but it's really a tricky thing to be proactive on.
00:01:19:06 - 00:01:22:06
So do you want to really start us off with what you're seeing here?
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Sure.
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You know, the mental health, everybody mentions it.
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But when you're trying to figure out, okay, exactly what is it
00:01:28:23 - 00:01:31:23
that we do about that, that's where it gets a little bit more difficult.
00:01:32:09 - 00:01:38:12
We're starting to see companies now use wellness and fitness things as incentives
00:01:38:18 - 00:01:43:03
for more time off or for additional pay that maybe if you walk
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10,000 steps a day for ten days in a row, you get a half day off
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or if you eat right or if you lose weight or you quit smoking,
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they're trying to figure out how to not necessarily monetize it,
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but develop it in such a way that now there's real motivation
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for employee to say,
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you know what, that's it's worth it for me now to go and do that
00:02:03:01 - 00:02:08:06
because the rewards are not just I feel better and maybe I'll be healthier,
00:02:08:06 - 00:02:11:10
but it's also like there's a short term to it that, you know,
00:02:11:10 - 00:02:14:20
maybe just kind of keeps people motivated for a while to stick with it.
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That reminds me of those treadmills that you can get for under your desk
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when you're working.
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Exactly. Walk your steps.
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Yeah, well, incentive. Those those are the types of things.
00:02:25:01 - 00:02:29:16
So we're seeing companies doing mindfulness breaks and telling people
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during the course of the day,
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you know, take a couple of minutes to yourself, take a walk outside.
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Companies are bringing massage chairs into the office.
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We do that here.
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They're, you know,
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providing now experiences where a lot of people have been giving gym memberships.
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And that's directly related.
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But it might be also a Netflix subscription with sort of a note
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that says, hey, once a week, take 2 hours and just sit back and watch a movie.
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So I think they're trying to just find things
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in everyone's lifestyle that those are moments where you
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you feel good about it and you know, it's good for you.
00:03:03:09 - 00:03:04:23
It's what you should do.
00:03:04:23 - 00:03:08:16
And then if we can give people a little extra nudge to go do it, you know,
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hopefully they're happier, they're healthier,
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and that means they're more productive at work.
00:03:12:22 - 00:03:16:07
I know you just listed a few, but do you have any other
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wellness trends that you are seeing from employers?
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I think some of it now is around almost training
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people to understand the wellness and how to take care of them.
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So, I mean,
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I can give you a gym membership,
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but if you never go, it doesn't have a whole lot of value to it.
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But if we can explain to you what are the good things that happen
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if you exercise three times a day or if you get out and walk and you do things.
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So I think the education part of it is becoming a bigger a bigger deal.
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And a lot of companies
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have employee assistance programs and they've always had an EAP,
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but they didn't necessarily tell anybody they had it.
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It was probably buried in your benefit somewhere that says, Oh, we have an EAP,
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and some of those cover everything from, you know, doing your will
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to, you know, how do you identify your beneficiaries
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and leave money behind to financial planning.
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And those are all things that are additional stressors in people's lives.
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And so again, if we can figure out how to help them with some of those
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things, then, you know, that's helpful to the employee as well.
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Yeah.
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And I know you've mentioned before, like for workplace cafes or cafeterias
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now, employers are replacing some of that food with a healthier option.
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May not be. Yep.
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No more late summer apples. Exactly.
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Or another topic that I'd like to dive into is your talent thinking section,
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which I know the importance of training and developing employees
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is really emphasize this month.
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So can you expand on that a little bit?
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Yeah, the learning and development, a couple of things have happened there
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and we'll talk a little bit
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about emerging leaders, I think, in a minute
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because that's been another big part of it.
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But the shift that's taking place in the workforce right now
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generationally has been a big one.
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And the
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expectations of people in the workplace, especially managers and supervisors,
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have changed.
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So now you're watching all of the baby boomers begin to exit.
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Finally, and they're being replaced by smaller,
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a smaller generation, which means we're dipping into the next one,
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which are the millennials.
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And a lot of them are now being pushed into a leadership position
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earlier than perhaps I would have been.
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I might have had 20 years on the job to watch other people, as I say,
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watch other people make mistakes.
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So I didn't have to make my own
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and then hopefully be smarter as a leader when I got there.
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And some of the younger folks are not getting that same amount of time to do it.
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So there's a training issue around that that we can talk about.
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And the second part is, I think for a lot of hiring managers
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and supervisors, especially those that have been at it for a long time,
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their job has changed dramatically.
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It's changed because of the shortage of people we have.
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So they have to be much more involved
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now in recruiting and retention and making sure their people
00:06:04:19 - 00:06:07:18
feel satisfied in their job and that they want to stick around.
00:06:08:10 - 00:06:13:04
And they've also had to take on more of a role in the entire employee.
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It's not that I'm just going to evaluate
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you on your ability to get your work done and your innovation at work.
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Now it's you. What's your mental health?
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Is there any stress in your life?
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Is something happening
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that we need to know about that maybe we can help accommodate it?
00:06:28:06 - 00:06:30:23
And so their life has changed quite a bit, too, and trying to help
00:06:30:23 - 00:06:35:06
them understand that they need to understand the younger employees.
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They're not better, they're not worse, they're different.
00:06:37:14 - 00:06:39:23
And what they want is very different.
00:06:39:23 - 00:06:43:09
And you can complain about it, but you're also the people that are saying,
00:06:43:09 - 00:06:47:03
I need more people to come work for me because I'm working too much.
00:06:47:03 - 00:06:47:16
All right.
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But if you want us to help you find new people,
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then you've got to understand how do talk to those people,
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communicate with those people and keep those people happy.
00:06:55:16 - 00:06:58:11
Because if they leave your back to having too much work again.
00:06:59:02 - 00:07:02:08
So all of that falls into that learning and development
00:07:02:16 - 00:07:06:23
sort of bucket that says, what do people have to deal with now?
00:07:06:23 - 00:07:07:22
And how is we as
00:07:07:22 - 00:07:11:03
how are we as an employer going to figure out how to train them in that?
00:07:11:13 - 00:07:14:13
And can you give some examples of what companies
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are actually doing with that information?
00:07:17:19 - 00:07:18:07
Yeah, you know,
00:07:18:07 - 00:07:22:09
I think what they're trying to do is, one, they're trying to identify the skills.
00:07:22:09 - 00:07:28:10
We did that in our in our last talent report webinar that it's communications.
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It's decision making.
00:07:30:08 - 00:07:31:21
It's accountability.
00:07:31:21 - 00:07:35:09
It's things that, you know, have been there probably for a long time.
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But they
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they are much more prevalent right now.
00:07:39:00 - 00:07:42:04
And so they've got to figure out how to do some of those things.
00:07:42:04 - 00:07:44:21
We are trying to begin to mix people a little bit
00:07:44:21 - 00:07:48:03
more by age as well as by a variety of other things.
00:07:49:01 - 00:07:52:12
If you and I are in the same meeting and somebody says, here's
00:07:52:12 - 00:07:55:00
the direction that we're going in, this is what we're going to do,
00:07:55:07 - 00:07:57:20
your take on it's probably going to be very different than mine.
00:07:58:03 - 00:08:03:07
And so it's a good thing to have a 25 year old, a 45 year
00:08:03:07 - 00:08:06:12
old and a 65 year old in the same meeting, because they're going to see things
00:08:06:12 - 00:08:07:17
very differently.
00:08:07:17 - 00:08:11:00
So you're starting to see the way people do meetings differently, the way they do.
00:08:11:00 - 00:08:12:15
The strategic planning is changing
00:08:12:15 - 00:08:15:23
dramatically to have different voices in the room.
00:08:16:12 - 00:08:19:03
Mentoring and reverse mentoring.
00:08:19:03 - 00:08:21:21
I think there's a couple of things I could probably teach you.
00:08:22:14 - 00:08:27:14
I know there are things that you can teach me, so how do we set up those meetings
00:08:27:14 - 00:08:31:19
and those relationships in a way that people can take advantage of that?
00:08:32:03 - 00:08:34:05
So trying to take that, this is what we need
00:08:34:05 - 00:08:37:11
and now how do we work it into the to the daily work?
00:08:37:11 - 00:08:40:13
Because if we just say Jim, Sophie, you two should talk to each other
00:08:40:13 - 00:08:43:04
once in a while, that might happen and it might not.
00:08:43:11 - 00:08:47:11
And so we have to sort of be intentional in how we're doing it.
00:08:47:16 - 00:08:50:12
Absolutely. Kind of going along with that.
00:08:50:12 - 00:08:53:21
You recently spoke at a generational differences conference
00:08:54:05 - 00:08:55:01
where you really talked
00:08:55:01 - 00:08:59:04
about emerging leaders and how how they can use their skills
00:08:59:04 - 00:09:02:07
and how to develop them, communicate with them and more.
00:09:02:07 - 00:09:06:14
So can you kind of highlight some of the key points that you discussed there?
00:09:06:18 - 00:09:08:21
Yeah, we actually tag teamed it.
00:09:08:21 - 00:09:12:06
So we had a millennial and then a baby boomer,
00:09:12:14 - 00:09:16:03
you know, and started it just by, you know, sort of saying, okay,
00:09:16:10 - 00:09:18:18
let's just ask you a couple of questions
00:09:19:12 - 00:09:22:03
if you needed technical assistance,
00:09:22:07 - 00:09:26:11
who would you go to the the 27 year old or the 62 year old?
00:09:26:20 - 00:09:29:23
If you wanted help with strategic planning, which one would you go to
00:09:30:02 - 00:09:33:13
if you had a financial question, if you needed a project manager,
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if you wanted to understand what TicTok was
00:09:36:14 - 00:09:40:02
and went through a series of questions where some of them are pretty obvious
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and they're correct and some of them you might, you know, be wrong
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that you're just assuming that, well, he's never been on TicTok as he's this age,
00:09:50:01 - 00:09:53:07
but she's been on Tic TAC as she did Tic TAC.
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One of the biggest generational differences.
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It's a Tic TAC to me. Is the TicTok to you?
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It's a hard to say. It is.
00:10:00:14 - 00:10:04:04
And you know, I've been saying tic tac longer than it's saying TicTok. So.
00:10:04:05 - 00:10:05:13
All right. Showing my age,
00:10:07:02 - 00:10:07:19
you're one of those
00:10:07:19 - 00:10:10:21
more likely to have that type of experiences as well.
00:10:10:21 - 00:10:12:20
So, yeah, we started with that.
00:10:12:20 - 00:10:14:06
Just trying to get people to say,
00:10:14:06 - 00:10:18:07
you know, what sort of opinions, what biases do we have already?
00:10:18:07 - 00:10:22:01
I just assume a 25 year old can tech can do technology.
00:10:22:01 - 00:10:24:10
Yeah, there's probably a 90% chance. You're right.
00:10:24:15 - 00:10:29:00
But there's some 25 year olds who never bothered. So
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and there are 60 year olds who got into it as soon as it came and they love it.
00:10:34:14 - 00:10:38:09
So just trying to get people to think just because they look like this age,
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you know, doesn't necessarily mean that that's that's what's right.
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And then, you know, we introduced ourselves
00:10:44:16 - 00:10:47:10
kind of in a joking way saying, okay, what's
00:10:48:04 - 00:10:50:08
what's your impression, you know, of this person?
00:10:50:08 - 00:10:54:01
And I can, you know, say, well, they're on Tik tok too much.
00:10:54:01 - 00:10:55:15
Okay, that's just my opinion.
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And then I get to hear the rebuttal on that that says you are
00:10:58:02 - 00:11:02:05
you can learn on Tik tok and now you know that that that's legit,
00:11:02:15 - 00:11:04:14
you know, and saying, okay, you got to speak up more
00:11:04:14 - 00:11:06:00
because you have really good opinions
00:11:06:00 - 00:11:09:07
and you know, you're not necessarily sharing them with people.
00:11:09:07 - 00:11:12:16
And so some of it is constructive and some of it is, you know,
00:11:12:17 - 00:11:14:11
just in good humor.
00:11:14:11 - 00:11:15:10
And, you know,
00:11:15:10 - 00:11:18:15
the young person can look at me and say, God, your memos are way too long.
00:11:18:23 - 00:11:22:04
You have these long paragraphs just like get to the bullet points
00:11:22:04 - 00:11:23:10
and let's be done.
00:11:23:10 - 00:11:26:13
That or joking when I say, Hey, did you see the commercial
00:11:26:13 - 00:11:27:10
or what you look like?
00:11:27:10 - 00:11:29:12
Why in the world are you watching commercials?
00:11:29:16 - 00:11:31:06
How dumb can you be?
00:11:31:06 - 00:11:33:23
So some of those are just sort of like, understand?
00:11:33:23 - 00:11:38:10
Yeah, most definitely where they're at, how they consume things, technology,
00:11:38:16 - 00:11:43:07
television, radio, music, you know, just very different things.
00:11:43:07 - 00:11:47:03
So just, you know, try to open up their minds a little bit to saying, yeah,
00:11:47:03 - 00:11:50:09
let's think about some of these things before we just run
00:11:50:09 - 00:11:53:12
and make, you know, assumptions of of what's happening.
00:11:53:13 - 00:11:54:13
Absolutely.
00:11:54:13 - 00:11:58:21
And in terms of communicating with emerging leaders or developing them,
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what do you really think members ought to be thinking about?
00:12:02:17 - 00:12:06:00
I think we've lived in a world for so long that, you know,
00:12:06:00 - 00:12:11:04
usually there was a primary form of communication.
00:12:11:13 - 00:12:14:22
You know, at one point it might have been actually having
00:12:14:22 - 00:12:19:11
to make copies of something and stick it in everybody's actual mailbox.
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And then we knew all the staff got it, and then we sent out
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all emails emailed to all staff saying, okay, here it is.
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We assumed everybody got it, we faxed it to people and we assumed everybody got it.
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And we're in a world now, especially with these four generations
00:12:35:11 - 00:12:38:17
that, you know, if I said to you, what's what's your
00:12:39:10 - 00:12:42:07
primary way that you would like me to communicate with you?
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So if I said, I want to get a hold of you and I want a quick answer,
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how would you want me to communicate with you?
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Text. Text to me.
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And that's that's spot on, you know,
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and I might say I'm actually I would probably say, text me at this point, too.
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Mostly, though, because I'm adapting to other people.
00:12:59:05 - 00:13:03:06
I would have said normally I was at email me because that would be the fastest way
00:13:03:15 - 00:13:04:21
to get a hold of me.
00:13:04:21 - 00:13:08:10
But what companies now are having to deal with is if your primary way of
00:13:08:10 - 00:13:14:15
communicating is texting and mine, is email in others might be on our system.
00:13:14:15 - 00:13:17:18
And so they wanted in chatter and others say, you know,
00:13:17:18 - 00:13:21:07
if you could just do a video and I could watch it, that's easier.
00:13:21:10 - 00:13:22:01
And quite frankly,
00:13:22:01 - 00:13:25:19
if you recorded it, I can listen to it while I'm driving or something like that.
00:13:26:10 - 00:13:28:23
So that's five different ways of communicating
00:13:28:23 - 00:13:32:06
the same message, trying to make sure that it gets to everybody right.
00:13:32:16 - 00:13:35:17
And I think we have to understand that if there's a primary way
00:13:35:17 - 00:13:39:05
of communicating with people, that's the way that they're going to consume it.
00:13:39:10 - 00:13:43:23
And I can not like it, but I can't be mad either when they say, Well, I don't know.
00:13:43:23 - 00:13:44:21
Did you ever text me?
00:13:44:21 - 00:13:46:19
What's that? No, I never texted you.
00:13:46:19 - 00:13:47:19
Come on.
00:13:48:00 - 00:13:48:12
Right.
00:13:48:12 - 00:13:51:01
And, you know, you went through our entire leadership program.
00:13:51:01 - 00:13:53:06
And that was one of the questions we asked people was,
00:13:53:06 - 00:13:55:23
what do you want most when you you know, you start your employment
00:13:56:06 - 00:14:00:20
and after the box of swag was I want my supervisor cell phone number.
00:14:00:20 - 00:14:01:04
Yeah.
00:14:01:09 - 00:14:04:14
And that's a huge you know, you might have a 55 year old
00:14:04:14 - 00:14:07:06
like I'm not giving my cell phone number to a 25 year old there.
00:14:07:10 - 00:14:09:21
Call me from the bar on Saturday night.
00:14:09:21 - 00:14:11:16
You know, that's not the point of it.
00:14:11:16 - 00:14:14:08
You know what the probably you're looking for is
00:14:14:12 - 00:14:17:01
And in answer to a question and I want it quick.
00:14:17:03 - 00:14:17:19
Absolutely.
00:14:17:19 - 00:14:20:00
And if I text you, I better get a response from.
00:14:20:13 - 00:14:21:20
I can attest to that.
00:14:21:20 - 00:14:23:04
So, you know, there you have it.
00:14:23:04 - 00:14:26:03
So I think you are having to try to begin to figure out
00:14:27:00 - 00:14:31:09
how do we communicate with everybody in a way that they will actually consume
00:14:31:09 - 00:14:34:11
what it is that that we want them to consume For sure.
00:14:34:11 - 00:14:36:15
Because like I said, I can throw out a thousand messages,
00:14:36:15 - 00:14:40:04
but if I'm putting my messages on commercial TV,
00:14:40:17 - 00:14:42:16
you're not ever going to see it right?
00:14:42:16 - 00:14:46:17
And if you're putting everything on Spotify, I might never hear it.
00:14:47:03 - 00:14:50:13
And so where do we go and how do we communicate?
00:14:51:15 - 00:14:54:14
So kind of moving in a new direction here.
00:14:54:20 - 00:14:56:12
There were two recent surveys
00:14:56:12 - 00:15:00:07
that MRA just published in there and this month's talent report,
00:15:00:07 - 00:15:05:00
but it's the Business and Economic Outlook for 2023 in the Turnover survey.
00:15:05:08 - 00:15:07:12
So what was found in these surveys?
00:15:09:10 - 00:15:12:01
I'll go with the second one first because it's easier.
00:15:12:13 - 00:15:14:13
Turnover was up
00:15:14:13 - 00:15:16:19
and it was up in almost every type of job.
00:15:16:19 - 00:15:22:06
It was about 25% this past year, which is what it was last year,
00:15:22:13 - 00:15:26:09
but historically had been more in that 15, 16, 17% range.
00:15:26:09 - 00:15:29:14
So it's still there and it's still going on.
00:15:29:18 - 00:15:35:18
It's much higher at the lower level jobs than it is at the executive jobs.
00:15:36:01 - 00:15:38:16
Executives as low as eight or 9%.
00:15:39:10 - 00:15:42:23
But the people that maybe are in a manufacturing job
00:15:42:23 - 00:15:46:02
that are just starting, it might be as high as 35%.
00:15:46:16 - 00:15:50:18
So the turnover is still there and companies are really trying
00:15:50:18 - 00:15:55:01
to focus on keeping them for that first week and month.
00:15:55:06 - 00:15:57:00
And if they can keep them for that
00:15:57:00 - 00:15:59:00
first week in month, they've got a much better chance.
00:15:59:00 - 00:16:00:15
And so you're seeing a lot of
00:16:00:15 - 00:16:04:12
how do we surround this person with buddies or friends or mentors?
00:16:04:17 - 00:16:06:02
How do we keep in touch with them?
00:16:06:02 - 00:16:07:14
How do we contact them?
00:16:07:14 - 00:16:09:00
And spending a lot of time on that.
00:16:09:00 - 00:16:12:06
But the the turnover is up, I think right now
00:16:12:17 - 00:16:15:17
the employers are a little bit more optimistic that maybe we're going to
00:16:15:17 - 00:16:19:11
stabilize here, that those who are jumping just for money
00:16:19:17 - 00:16:21:06
have perhaps jumped
00:16:21:06 - 00:16:22:06
and others are starting
00:16:22:06 - 00:16:25:14
to look around and say, okay, I've got the wage that I'm looking for.
00:16:25:14 - 00:16:27:18
We always want more, but I'm pretty comfortable.
00:16:28:06 - 00:16:31:22
Now. What I'm looking for is maybe a little more longevity,
00:16:31:22 - 00:16:33:00
a little bit more about
00:16:33:00 - 00:16:36:03
what do you have to offer, a little bit more about my work life balance.
00:16:36:03 - 00:16:38:21
So maybe it's going to start the evening out.
00:16:38:21 - 00:16:39:23
We'll see.
00:16:39:23 - 00:16:43:09
We're still at 2% unemployed moment here in Wisconsin.
00:16:44:01 - 00:16:46:01
We're around under three.
00:16:46:01 - 00:16:50:01
In Minnesota, we're around three in Iowa, a little bit higher in Illinois.
00:16:50:09 - 00:16:52:06
So there's still going to be opportunities for people.
00:16:52:06 - 00:16:55:03
If there's opportunities for people, they're a little bit more likely to move
00:16:55:04 - 00:16:55:18
right in.
00:16:55:18 - 00:16:58:06
How about the business and economic?
00:16:58:12 - 00:17:01:02
The business, an economic one is really fascinating
00:17:01:02 - 00:17:04:01
because I think individually it was in people's companies.
00:17:04:08 - 00:17:07:13
They remained pretty optimistic that if I'm a manager,
00:17:07:13 - 00:17:11:07
I'm a manufacturer, I might have six months backlog.
00:17:11:07 - 00:17:14:21
So I know I've got work that's coming in and people can see that
00:17:15:10 - 00:17:18:13
most of their customers and clients are still doing well.
00:17:18:13 - 00:17:21:19
So they're feeling pretty good about that.
00:17:21:19 - 00:17:24:11
But then you ask them about, well, do you see a recession coming?
00:17:24:12 - 00:17:25:20
You think that's going to happen?
00:17:25:20 - 00:17:30:23
And, you know, over two thirds are saying, yeah, I think we're going to see that.
00:17:30:23 - 00:17:34:09
And then you ask another question, it says, well, then how optimistic are you?
00:17:34:14 - 00:17:39:16
And almost 90% are either very or somewhat optimistic
00:17:39:16 - 00:17:42:15
that their company is going to remain profitable and do all right.
00:17:42:23 - 00:17:46:15
So it's almost like my company's okay, but the rest of the world
00:17:46:15 - 00:17:48:01
is in a lot of trouble.
00:17:48:01 - 00:17:50:12
But there's a lot of people saying, my company is okay.
00:17:50:12 - 00:17:53:14
So if there's enough companies that are saying, I think mine's all right,
00:17:54:01 - 00:17:56:14
maybe we're in better shape than we think.
00:17:57:02 - 00:18:00:17
Now, the Midwest, I think, is very unique because as we've talked
00:18:00:17 - 00:18:04:12
demographics in the past, we were going to have a labor shortage
00:18:04:19 - 00:18:08:18
and we could have some people doing layoffs and still have other companies
00:18:09:03 - 00:18:10:03
who can pick them up.
00:18:10:03 - 00:18:13:19
So to the extent that we're going to keep people employed
00:18:14:05 - 00:18:18:00
in northern Illinois and Iowa and Minnesota and Wisconsin,
00:18:18:08 - 00:18:20:05
that's going to make a difference for us, I think.
00:18:20:05 - 00:18:23:09
And I think it'll make us a little bit more resilient
00:18:23:09 - 00:18:27:23
because those companies optimism means, okay, they're going to be hiring people.
00:18:28:04 - 00:18:30:12
And most are still saying they are looking.
00:18:30:21 - 00:18:35:13
So that that gives us kind of a leg up on maybe we're going to be okay here.
00:18:35:15 - 00:18:36:08
Yeah.
00:18:36:14 - 00:18:41:06
And in terms of C-suite level, what are the leaders really doing now?
00:18:42:07 - 00:18:42:21
They are
00:18:42:21 - 00:18:47:03
you know, they continue to be concerned a little bit about the uncertainty.
00:18:47:03 - 00:18:50:21
And that is one of the things that, you know, if you're a CEO
00:18:50:21 - 00:18:53:02
and you're looking at things, the one thing you want to do
00:18:53:02 - 00:18:55:22
is really be able to control the narrative.
00:18:55:22 - 00:19:00:02
You want to be able to say, look, I, I can control these types of things,
00:19:00:02 - 00:19:03:15
but if you're going to have price increases every two weeks,
00:19:03:23 - 00:19:07:23
yes, the government is going to pass some new compliance law
00:19:07:23 - 00:19:12:21
or they're going to change the way in which they might say we can
00:19:12:22 - 00:19:16:18
We can't have non-compete that changes the way we do things.
00:19:17:03 - 00:19:20:22
There is all kinds of political activity out there.
00:19:20:22 - 00:19:23:13
There is world affairs going on.
00:19:23:19 - 00:19:27:00
So all of those things combined, you start adding five
00:19:27:00 - 00:19:29:11
or six or seven or eight of these together and it's kind of like,
00:19:30:04 - 00:19:32:04
you know, let me control what I can control.
00:19:32:04 - 00:19:34:22
I can hire people, I can improve my processes.
00:19:35:03 - 00:19:38:09
But you're throwing all these other things at me and that's caused me
00:19:38:17 - 00:19:39:18
quite a bit of strife.
00:19:39:18 - 00:19:43:01
So I think that that's that's an issue for them.
00:19:43:12 - 00:19:47:05
They understand the talent issue for sure, and they continue to be concerned
00:19:47:05 - 00:19:47:17
about that.
00:19:47:17 - 00:19:50:15
And I think they're spending a little bit more time with their HR.
00:19:50:15 - 00:19:53:01
Department saying, you know, what do we do about this?
00:19:54:00 - 00:19:57:01
And in my presentations, i often say, well,
00:19:57:01 - 00:20:00:03
you know, the problem looks an awful lot like me, that there's a lot of people
00:20:00:03 - 00:20:04:01
that are, you know, 60 some years old, have been doing this for a long time.
00:20:04:01 - 00:20:07:17
And they're saying all these young people, you know what's coming in here,
00:20:07:22 - 00:20:09:18
How do we get them to be more motivated?
00:20:09:18 - 00:20:13:14
And I would argue that I think they're motivated as I've ever been.
00:20:13:14 - 00:20:17:08
It's just we're looking at digging into the the 2%,
00:20:17:08 - 00:20:21:05
which I think unemployment was 7% when I was looking for my first job.
00:20:21:12 - 00:20:23:15
So there's 200 people applying for every job.
00:20:23:15 - 00:20:24:23
I pick the best one.
00:20:24:23 - 00:20:28:07
You're walking around saying, I got five people who want me to come work for them.
00:20:28:15 - 00:20:30:03
I can pick whichever one I want.
00:20:30:03 - 00:20:33:19
So that's a that's just a very different world.
00:20:33:23 - 00:20:34:15
Absolutely.
00:20:34:15 - 00:20:37:19
And I think they're pushing their HR.
00:20:37:19 - 00:20:42:13
Departments very hard on especially going back to this emerging leader thing.
00:20:42:20 - 00:20:44:01
What should we be doing?
00:20:44:01 - 00:20:48:10
The mentoring, the reverse mentoring, the helping them with assessments
00:20:48:10 - 00:20:52:06
of personalities and assessments of communication styles,
00:20:52:18 - 00:20:56:00
getting them into team building and cross-functional teams,
00:20:56:00 - 00:21:02:01
putting the high potentials on our Strat planning group, giving them opportunities
00:21:02:01 - 00:21:06:02
to see this is where I can be a bigger part of this organization.
00:21:06:02 - 00:21:08:17
If I know I'm a part of it, I'm going to stay in.
00:21:08:17 - 00:21:11:18
If I see opportunities, then we'll be much better off.
00:21:12:07 - 00:21:14:13
So I think at this point everybody's figured out who we can hang on to,
00:21:14:14 - 00:21:16:19
people we don't have to be looking for as many people.
00:21:16:19 - 00:21:18:07
So that's
00:21:19:06 - 00:21:21:10
that's sort of where folks are at and saying, yeah,
00:21:21:15 - 00:21:25:01
let's let's keep the ones we get because we spent a lot of money time
00:21:25:01 - 00:21:26:09
trying to get them. Yeah.
00:21:26:09 - 00:21:29:00
And how about for HR. Strategies?
00:21:29:00 - 00:21:32:15
What are you seeing for creative strategies wise?
00:21:32:20 - 00:21:35:10
You know, i think the most creative one that I got
00:21:36:03 - 00:21:38:15
this time around from one of my roundtables.
00:21:38:15 - 00:21:42:13
It was a smaller rural town, but it was a company that had changed
00:21:42:13 - 00:21:45:18
their name, wasn't necessarily
00:21:45:18 - 00:21:49:16
delivering a product direct to consumer where you'd say,
00:21:49:16 - 00:21:52:08
Oh, I recognize that it's Coca-Cola, you know, I get it.
00:21:52:23 - 00:21:55:17
And they were they've been recruiting and are trying to find people
00:21:55:17 - 00:21:57:00
and there's just not that many people.
00:21:57:00 - 00:21:59:07
And a lot of folks are, you know, stealing from each other.
00:22:00:01 - 00:22:02:03
And they decided it
00:22:02:16 - 00:22:05:06
really as an effort to try to get their name back out there
00:22:05:06 - 00:22:09:00
and remind people that they were in town, basically held a community event.
00:22:09:10 - 00:22:11:23
And it was just sort of like a community fair.
00:22:12:05 - 00:22:14:18
They had games for the kids.
00:22:14:18 - 00:22:18:12
They had, you know, drink tickets, they had a tent.
00:22:18:20 - 00:22:22:17
They had all kinds of fun activities for people to do and just said, come on in.
00:22:22:17 - 00:22:26:03
We want to celebrate the community and we'll see what happens now.
00:22:27:00 - 00:22:29:10
And then near the where the drink tickets were,
00:22:29:11 - 00:22:30:14
they had set up a booth
00:22:30:14 - 00:22:33:02
that just explained who their company was and what they did.
00:22:33:02 - 00:22:35:19
And you know, they had job applications there as well.
00:22:36:11 - 00:22:40:12
And what they found was, one, people didn't know they were there and they were
00:22:40:12 - 00:22:43:11
picking up brochures and saying, Wow, this is really interesting.
00:22:43:11 - 00:22:48:02
But they also got 25 employees out of the deal from the applications
00:22:48:02 - 00:22:49:09
that were picked up here.
00:22:49:09 - 00:22:52:23
And these weren't even necessarily people that were looking, but they saw it.
00:22:52:23 - 00:22:55:01
They came to a place that was fun.
00:22:55:01 - 00:22:58:17
They saw the employees that were there and they were having fun and looked like
00:22:58:17 - 00:23:00:07
they were committed to the company.
00:23:00:07 - 00:23:03:11
And if you ask them about it, I would say you know, good thing.
00:23:03:11 - 00:23:04:00
Yeah.
00:23:04:01 - 00:23:06:22
And this is a company that puts out activities like this.
00:23:06:22 - 00:23:08:18
This all sounds pretty good to me.
00:23:08:18 - 00:23:13:18
And just based on their experience there that day and talking to their employees,
00:23:14:06 - 00:23:17:03
they got 25 new employees out of it
00:23:17:11 - 00:23:20:17
at a time when they'd been spending thousands on advertising
00:23:20:17 - 00:23:23:23
and using recruiters and maybe getting two or three.
00:23:24:15 - 00:23:28:21
So almost by accident, but outside the box time.
00:23:29:10 - 00:23:32:06
So so I would say that that was probably
00:23:32:06 - 00:23:35:06
the most creative one on Newcastle on in the last month.
00:23:35:11 - 00:23:37:17
That sounds creative. Ended up
00:23:38:20 - 00:23:39:16
well for that one.
00:23:39:16 - 00:23:39:21
Yeah.
00:23:39:21 - 00:23:42:12
All worked out well and I might have another one.
00:23:43:14 - 00:23:46:16
Or as we kind of wrap up here, there's a lot of changes
00:23:46:16 - 00:23:51:02
happening in the workforce and a lot of those hard population.
00:23:51:02 - 00:23:55:09
So can you talk about the change in population over the last ten years
00:23:55:09 - 00:23:57:16
and how that's really affected the workforce?
00:23:57:22 - 00:24:01:01
Yeah, you know, if you look around and I've mentioned this
00:24:01:01 - 00:24:04:06
before, the the Northeast and the upper Midwest
00:24:04:19 - 00:24:09:04
are sort of the places where that is now where people are moving to.
00:24:09:05 - 00:24:13:11
And so without that migration that's been that's a problem.
00:24:13:11 - 00:24:16:09
And so good news over the last ten years.
00:24:16:18 - 00:24:21:13
We saw growth in Wisconsin and Minnesota and Illinois
00:24:21:20 - 00:24:27:09
between three and 5%, which isn't great, but at least it's growth.
00:24:28:05 - 00:24:30:07
Illinois is is struggling.
00:24:30:07 - 00:24:32:19
It's one of the biggest migration out states.
00:24:32:19 - 00:24:35:13
So they they have their own set of issues.
00:24:36:00 - 00:24:38:15
But before everybody gets too excited about plus three or four
00:24:38:15 - 00:24:42:23
or 5%, the digging into the numbers is really the key.
00:24:42:23 - 00:24:47:23
And that grows in three, four, 5% are all working age people.
00:24:47:23 - 00:24:51:19
In fact, very few of them are in the working age population.
00:24:52:12 - 00:24:56:13
More of them are going to be near the retirement age side of things.
00:24:56:13 - 00:24:57:02
And so
00:24:59:05 - 00:25:01:03
it could be worse.
00:25:01:08 - 00:25:03:18
But most of the states, especially when you go south
00:25:03:18 - 00:25:06:03
and when you go west, are having more growth.
00:25:06:03 - 00:25:08:23
And that most of it is around hotspots.
00:25:08:23 - 00:25:12:05
So when you see the Portland's in the Denver's in the Carolinas
00:25:12:05 - 00:25:15:18
and Austin, Texas, that's where people are going
00:25:16:12 - 00:25:20:06
and we don't necessarily have one of those in several states.
00:25:20:14 - 00:25:21:13
Minneapolis St.
00:25:21:13 - 00:25:23:16
Paul is a draw, it's a hub,
00:25:25:06 - 00:25:27:17
but that's really about the only one for Minnesota.
00:25:27:22 - 00:25:29:05
Milwaukee's trying hard.
00:25:29:05 - 00:25:31:02
Madison's doing a good job,
00:25:31:02 - 00:25:34:21
but they still don't compete with that sort of national buzz
00:25:35:04 - 00:25:38:21
about some of those other places where you might just say,
00:25:38:21 - 00:25:41:05
That looks like a cool place and that's where I'm going.
00:25:41:05 - 00:25:43:07
I'll find a job, I'll figure it out when I get there,
00:25:43:18 - 00:25:46:23
because you can do that because you know that there will be a job there right now.
00:25:47:10 - 00:25:49:18
Well, looking to the future a little bit,
00:25:49:18 - 00:25:53:07
can you give us a sneak peek on April's talent report?
00:25:53:13 - 00:25:55:23
Yeah, we're going to be looking at employee engagement,
00:25:56:09 - 00:25:58:19
and that's I know others have talked about here.
00:25:58:19 - 00:26:02:20
Last year was a really big let's go recruit, recruit recruiting fruit.
00:26:03:05 - 00:26:05:03
And I think people are going to keep doing that.
00:26:05:03 - 00:26:08:08
But in the process of doing that, you started realizing, well,
00:26:08:08 - 00:26:13:03
if I've got to recruit 20 and ten others leave, I'm only up ten.
00:26:13:03 - 00:26:14:21
And so I got to keep recruiting, recruiting.
00:26:14:21 - 00:26:19:01
So I think people are looking more at retention and we'll have Lisa Poulin,
00:26:19:09 - 00:26:20:09
who does a lot
00:26:20:09 - 00:26:24:18
of our organizational development work, talking about some of the assessments
00:26:24:18 - 00:26:27:09
you can use and trying to make sure that people are happy.
00:26:27:09 - 00:26:28:10
Employee engagement
00:26:28:10 - 00:26:32:20
surveys, finding out what's on their mind, and then trying to figure out, you know,
00:26:32:20 - 00:26:34:10
what are the benefits and what's the culture
00:26:34:10 - 00:26:36:16
and what's the structure we've got of the organization
00:26:37:01 - 00:26:39:11
that's going to have those people stay with us for the long term?
00:26:39:11 - 00:26:43:08
Because the longer that they're, the more they know and the more we need a great.
00:26:43:08 - 00:26:45:15
While looking forward to it. Yeah, I do.
00:26:45:15 - 00:26:50:05
Any other last pieces of advice or lasting comments on.
00:26:50:05 - 00:26:50:22
Sure.
00:26:51:00 - 00:26:54:08
I think people do that and just, you know, dig in and keep fighting.
00:26:55:06 - 00:26:57:05
I think the creativity is going to be key.
00:26:57:05 - 00:26:59:11
It's just, you know, it's the party.
00:26:59:11 - 00:27:03:07
It's figuring out what's the niche group that we want to go after.
00:27:03:07 - 00:27:05:23
It's finding a new place to go look for people.
00:27:06:20 - 00:27:07:22
It's not going to end.
00:27:07:22 - 00:27:10:01
And so people are going to have to just keep working at it.
00:27:10:01 - 00:27:11:11
And that's exhausting.
00:27:11:11 - 00:27:12:18
I'm sorry about that.
00:27:12:18 - 00:27:16:10
But the creative ones are winning and they're successful.
00:27:16:10 - 00:27:19:23
Yeah, well, I want to thank you for being on 30 minute Thrive today
00:27:19:23 - 00:27:22:22
and really sharing this month's talent report with us.
00:27:23:06 - 00:27:27:09
So if you liked our chat and topic today, make sure you share it with episode.
00:27:27:09 - 00:27:28:06
Leave a comment,
00:27:28:06 - 00:27:32:07
leave a review, Consider joining MRA if you aren't a member already.
00:27:32:12 - 00:27:35:04
We have all the resources you need in the show Notes below,
00:27:35:13 - 00:27:38:18
including Jim's bio, his LinkedIn profile.
00:27:38:18 - 00:27:43:03
So if you want to get in touch with him, I'm sure he'll be happy to chat with you.
00:27:43:15 - 00:27:44:06
Otherwise.
00:27:44:06 - 00:27:47:18
Thank you for tuning in today and we will see you next week.
00:27:47:18 - 00:27:50:13
And that wraps up our content for this episode.
00:27:50:14 - 00:27:53:18
Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign them to connect.
00:27:53:18 - 00:27:55:09
For more podcast updates,
00:27:55:09 - 00:27:59:05
check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform.
00:27:59:05 - 00:28:04:04
And as always, make sure to follow MRA’s 30 minutes Thrive so you don't miss out.
00:28:04:04 - 00:28:05:06
Thanks for tuning in
00:28:05:06 - 00:28:08:18
and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the HR conversation.
29 min
March 08, 2023Hot on the Hotline: Leaves of Absence
Description: In today's episode, we're tackling the intricate field of leaves of absence. We'll dive into the different types of leaves, common misconceptions, frequently asked questions, and helpful resources you can use to stay on top of best practices, rules and regulations regarding leaves of absence.
Key Takeaways:
When it comes to leaves of absence, work with empathy, communicate well, have expectations laid out, have an agreement, and understand return dates.
There's a misconception that you can't fire, terminate, discipline, or manage people's expectations when they're on leave. That is simply untrue. Those things can all be done if they're done fairly and objectively.
MRA has many leaves of absence resources, including the hotline, toolkits, guides, trainings, and more!
Resources:
24/7 HR Hotline
Leave of Absence Request Form
JAN - Job Accommodation Network
ADA Toolkit
Supervisor and the Law Training
MRA Membership
About MRA

Let's Connect:
Guest Bio - Amy Whittenberger
Guest LinkedIn Profile - Amy Whittenberger
Host Bio - Sophie Boler
Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler

Transcript:
Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word.
00:00:00:01 - 00:00:03:10
Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive,
00:00:03:10 - 00:00:06:20
your go-to podcast for anything and everything HR.
00:00:06:21 - 00:00:09:22
Powered by MRA, the Management Association.
00:00:09:23 - 00:00:12:23
Looking to stay on top of the ever-changing world of HR?
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MRA has got you covered.
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We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not.
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I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here.
00:00:21:04 - 00:00:22:22
Now it's time to thrive.
00:00:22:22 - 00:00:26:22
Hello, everybody, and welcome to this episode of 30 Minute Thrive.
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We're happy you're here, and I'm excited to talk about what's hot on the hotline
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with Amy Whittenberger.
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She's our HR Business Advisor here at MRA.
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So she's the one to answer all of your HR Questions,
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and provide some good advice when you call on our HR hotline.
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Prior to joining MRA, Amy held multiple positions in HR
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and operations roles, and worked in the manufacturing
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and service industries, all small and large companies,
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as well as for-profit and not-for-profit companies.
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She's actually owned her own HR consulting business and taught
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HR courses at Cardinal Stritch University as well.
00:01:05:16 - 00:01:08:18
So, I know you come with a lot of experience and knowledge
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today, so I'm excited that you're sharing it with us on the podcast today.
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I'm glad to be here.
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This is fun.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Well, a recent episode was dedicated to MRA's most
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called upon topic on the hotline, which was FMLA.
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So let's kind of talk about the other side to that, and that's leaves of absence.
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So what other forms of leaves are there?
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So there are a couple more that we do need to talk about with our members
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when they do call in.
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You know, we have over 4000 members, a million employees,
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so we're bound to get calls regarding leaves that are needed.
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Some of those leaves look like our medical and personal leaves are policies
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a company might have in place of not having FMLA available.
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And there's the big one, which is ADA, where there is an accommodation
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in the form of leave.
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There are military leaves and leaves due to worker's compensation.
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And we also need to talk about any state-mandated paid leaves
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that are out there as well.
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And there are 11 states that have that right now.
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So a lot of different types going on.
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So, if a member were to call
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and say that they have an employee that needs to be out
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but they are not eligible for for FMLA; what really are their options?
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like where do they start?
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I think the first question I would ask them is,
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is if they do have a medical or personal leave policy on hand,
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if they do, obviously that's a great foundation to work with.
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You know, if I look at the policies, they tend to mirror FMLA.
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So the conversation can be almost the same as an FMLA, in terms of, you know,
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the eligibility requirements they might have for employees' forms
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to use, medical certifications to get, as well as, how do you handle
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benefits, pay in paying for benefits of all that employees out
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and then documenting everything.
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If they don't have a leave policy then we suggest that they use our sample.
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We have a great sample to use, and then to work from.
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And then, if they don't have that policy in place,
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really is talking about, you know,
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if this is the first time they might be doing it,
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what precedent might they be setting with this employee, for future decisions,
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or certainly look back, if they can, in different files
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where they might have had past practices so that they can be consistent
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in the future.
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So what else do companies really need to consider on this?
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And particularly to their policies in terms of leave?
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You know, I certainly bring into the conversation regarding PTO,
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you know, how is their PTO administered?
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How does it apply to leaves, required or not, in terms of taking time off,
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and then again looking at paid leave in terms of states?
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So the good news is that if you have a policy,
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where you provide equal amounts of leave in more than the state
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requires you to have to provide additional leave on top of that.
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So that you'd just be good to go.
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So at least get that out of the way.
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Okay. That makes sense.
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So you mentioned earlier that ADA was one of the big ones.
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So can we talk about that a little bit? Yes.
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So on that same call with any member that's calling in, we certainly would
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move them into accommodation in terms of a disability.
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ADA is required of any companies of more than 15 employees,
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and we would first suggest that they look in their toolkit,
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so we have a disability toolkit, that's exclusive to our members,
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very comprehensive in terms of information, state laws, DOL
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information, forms, letters to use,
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and an introduction to Jan, so everyone should know Jan.
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Jan is a resource through the DOL.
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stands for Job Accommodation Network and so it's a great use resource as well.
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Working through a leave when it comes to accommodation is similar
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to accommodations for any other disabilities.
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It's just having those questions regarding the leave,
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and the amount of leave that would be necessary.
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So diving a little bit deeper into ADA,
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what does a leave really look like under this?
00:05:03:19 - 00:05:06:04
Yeah, so it could be a lot of different things,
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that the can really vary, you know so a couple of samples could be, you know,
00:05:09:11 - 00:05:13:04
employee calls in on a Monday and said, hey, I broke my leg over the weekend,
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playing soccer, I don't have worker's comp.
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It's not a FMLA.
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I know I can't come to work because I'm in a cast,
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I won’t have my cast off for two weeks.
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What does that look like for them?
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It could be other issues such as, you know, a mental health issue.
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We know mental health issues are on the rise.
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So it could be that they need
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a modified schedule in order to attend therapy appointments.
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On that same vein, it could be people that have like
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a chronic diabetes situation and need treatments,
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or unfortunately people are dealing with cancer.
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They have chemotherapy that they have to attend.
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It could also be people that have a drug addiction,
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and they want to check themselves into like a 30 day stay treatment center.
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And could be of a newer disability, are going to be working with the service dog.
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So I need to go
00:06:01:04 - 00:06:04:19
look at training with my dog to learn how to work through those issues.
00:06:04:19 - 00:06:08:03
I didn’t know that was a part of it, it is, yes.
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And it can be things like you know
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I had a FMLA available to me for migraines.
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Migraines tend not to go away, so I'm still dealing with migraines,
00:06:19:09 - 00:06:21:05
you know, how can we work through leave for that?
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And then, even, you know, a fairly common
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one is someone who's pregnant and not eligible for FMLA.
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And working through those issues, like,
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they might need time off for morning sickness, or things like that.
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Mm hmm.
00:06:34:06 - 00:06:37:10
So a very big array. Yes.
00:06:37:17 - 00:06:38:12
It is.
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ADA is far reaching and very complex.
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So, do employers have to accommodate employees
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for every single one of those situations, per se.
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So, no, each case is different.
00:06:51:18 - 00:06:55:16
So essentially what a company does need to do, is
00:06:56:01 - 00:06:59:02
they are required to engage in what's called an interactive process.
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That process is how and the employer and the employee works
00:07:03:13 - 00:07:07:09
together to find out, you know, what is a reasonable accommodation.
00:07:07:21 - 00:07:11:08
So this should be a conversation, it should not be a confrontation.
00:07:11:18 - 00:07:16:00
You know, it really is about the employer and the employee come together
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with ideas, bring them to the table, come into agreement about what might work.
00:07:20:00 - 00:07:23:15
You know, there could be situations where through those conversations, the employer
00:07:23:15 - 00:07:27:20
finds out or determines that they can't accommodate with the employee is asking.
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And that's what we call an undue hardship.
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And there's very, you know, pretty specific reasons why you would choose.
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That,
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is a lengthy conversation.
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It shouldn't be made lightly.
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And if you're coming to that conclusion, certainly, you know,
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we suggest that you have a complete set of documentation
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regarding those conversations and why you made that decision.
00:07:49:06 - 00:07:52:22
Kind of going off of that, and you just spoke a little bit about it.
00:07:53:07 - 00:07:56:14
But what really are the factors used to determine
00:07:56:14 - 00:07:58:17
whether an undue hardship exists?
00:07:59:08 - 00:08:00:00
Mm hmm.
00:08:00:00 - 00:08:01:09
So when it comes to leaves,
00:08:01:09 - 00:08:04:17
it really is about what the employees are requesting in terms of, you know,
00:08:04:17 - 00:08:07:19
how long they might need off, the frequency,
00:08:07:19 - 00:08:11:13
they might need off, the length of time that they're requesting.
00:08:11:13 - 00:08:13:03
A big piece of that is
00:08:13:03 - 00:08:16:12
if the time they're requesting, is predictable or unpredictable.
00:08:16:22 - 00:08:19:19
You know, we know in the workplace, that when people are calling sick,
00:08:20:01 - 00:08:23:08
those unplanned times, get really hard to manage sometimes
00:08:23:08 - 00:08:27:05
before the other staff to pick up the pieces and then cover that.
00:08:27:18 - 00:08:31:17
So that really plays into making that decision in terms of undue hardship.
00:08:32:03 - 00:08:32:08
Okay.
00:08:32:19 - 00:08:35:11
So how does this really align with employers
00:08:36:01 - 00:08:39:00
who ask for doctors notes when an employee's out
00:08:39:00 - 00:08:42:15
for several days or calls than when they're injured outside of work?
00:08:42:15 - 00:08:43:03
Yeah.
00:08:43:03 - 00:08:48:20
So a lot of attendance policies out there will have a requirement
00:08:48:20 - 00:08:52:14
for employers, when the employee is out for let's say three or more days,
00:08:53:00 - 00:08:57:02
that they do bring back a doctor's note, clearing them to come back to work.
00:08:58:04 - 00:08:59:00
The cautionary
00:08:59:00 - 00:09:02:06
point here is that employers have to make sure
00:09:02:06 - 00:09:05:21
that they're not requiring that the employees are 100% healed,
00:09:06:23 - 00:09:12:07
because that is in direct conflict with ADA, asking us to make accommodations
00:09:12:07 - 00:09:15:08
for people that need to meet the essential functions of the job.
00:09:16:09 - 00:09:19:06
So in the beginning, we talked a little bit
00:09:19:06 - 00:09:23:22
about the different types of leaves, So we should go back to that.
00:09:23:22 - 00:09:26:12
And can you talk a little bit more about those other types
00:09:26:12 - 00:09:29:02
that you kind of listed out in the first question.
00:09:29:05 - 00:09:29:16
Yeah.
00:09:29:16 - 00:09:34:06
So besides ADA, another common one I did mention is pregnancy leave.
00:09:34:19 - 00:09:40:09
And so people that have a pregnancy but are qualified under a FMLA,
00:09:40:14 - 00:09:43:22
they certainly have protections under Title seven and EEOC,
00:09:44:07 - 00:09:46:08
and with the Pregnancy Discrimination Act,
00:09:47:15 - 00:09:50:23
that prevents people from being discriminated against
00:09:50:23 - 00:09:52:23
because of pregnancy issues.
00:09:52:23 - 00:09:56:21
But then the ADA does come back into play, and that there is accommodations
00:09:56:21 - 00:09:59:08
that should be made for people that are pregnant.
00:09:59:08 - 00:10:03:03
Those things can be like additional breaks, longer breaks,
00:10:03:03 - 00:10:07:07
maybe a change in schedule, or a change in shift, to deal with,
00:10:07:07 - 00:10:10:19
you know, anything you know, including things like morning sickness.
00:10:11:07 - 00:10:12:23
We've listed so many already,
00:10:12:23 - 00:10:16:06
but are there any other ones that you want to cover too?
00:10:16:21 - 00:10:20:06
Yeah, there's definitely one more part and one and I think we saved the best
00:10:20:06 - 00:10:22:10
for last. I think that's military leaves.
00:10:22:22 - 00:10:26:11
And so there is an act called the USERRA Act, which is the Uniformed
00:10:26:11 - 00:10:29:16
Services, Employment and Reemployment Rights Act.
00:10:30:05 - 00:10:33:06
And this ACT employee covers all employers.
00:10:33:06 - 00:10:36:07
So it's available to anyone that's in a military situation.
00:10:37:04 - 00:10:41:13
It's semi similar to a family in that it is providing
00:10:42:00 - 00:10:45:02
leave away from the job with protection to come back
00:10:45:02 - 00:10:47:16
and get your job, an equal job for equal pay
00:10:48:05 - 00:10:51:19
and the military act is different though, in that you you're returning
00:10:51:19 - 00:10:55:05
someone who is back to a positions called an escalated position.
00:10:55:19 - 00:10:59:12
So that means you're returning the back to a position where they
00:11:00:01 - 00:11:02:21
if they attained anything like increases
00:11:02:21 - 00:11:05:18
promotions and increase in security,
00:11:06:00 - 00:11:10:01
increase in benefits, etc., you turn them into that
00:11:10:22 - 00:11:13:16
that role with those benefits, they would have a attained.
00:11:14:00 - 00:11:14:18
Interesting.
00:11:14:18 - 00:11:16:04
So it's a really nice feature.
00:11:16:04 - 00:11:18:10
They shouldn't have to suffer because they served our country.
00:11:18:17 - 00:11:19:06
Absolutely.
00:11:20:13 - 00:11:21:11
So as we
00:11:21:11 - 00:11:25:01
wrap up the episode today, I just kind of want to end with what
00:11:25:05 - 00:11:28:02
other concerns or issues you hear that members
00:11:28:02 - 00:11:30:18
bring up to you regarding leaves on the hotline?
00:11:31:04 - 00:11:31:14
Yeah.
00:11:31:14 - 00:11:34:22
So I think, you know, in the most part I think the leaves go quite well.
00:11:35:04 - 00:11:40:13
You know, like anything else, if we work with empathy, communicate well, have
00:11:40:13 - 00:11:44:16
expectations laid out, have an agreement, understand return dates.
00:11:44:16 - 00:11:48:21
I think those can work well between employee, manager, and HR.
00:11:48:21 - 00:11:51:04
But we know not all things work out well.
00:11:51:14 - 00:11:55:19
And that's the kind of the calls we get to at the hotline is helping people
00:11:55:19 - 00:11:58:23
when they're a little bit frustrated because things are going as expected.
00:11:59:09 - 00:12:01:11
And when they said they would accommodate a leave.
00:12:01:11 - 00:12:05:17
What we try to do in those situations, for example, there's a misconception
00:12:06:11 - 00:12:07:06
out there that
00:12:08:09 - 00:12:09:02
you can't
00:12:09:02 - 00:12:11:21
fire, can't terminate, can't discipline,
00:12:12:04 - 00:12:14:12
can't manage people's expectations when they're on leave.
00:12:15:09 - 00:12:17:06
And that is simply untrue.
00:12:17:06 - 00:12:21:05
And those things can be done if they're done fairly,
00:12:21:10 - 00:12:24:00
objectively, you know, for business reasons,
00:12:25:03 - 00:12:28:12
in that for any discriminatory reason, things can go wrong.
00:12:29:06 - 00:12:32:02
If we're not communicating well, a good example of
00:12:32:02 - 00:12:34:10
when you can terminate someone when they're on leave
00:12:35:04 - 00:12:37:12
is if someone's on leave and unfortunately,
00:12:37:12 - 00:12:40:14
a company has make a decision to do a restructuring
00:12:41:15 - 00:12:44:01
and they're looking at limiting positions.
00:12:44:01 - 00:12:47:16
If they have a role that's on the list,
00:12:47:16 - 00:12:52:05
that role in that employee who's on leave that is in the role can be terminated.
00:12:52:19 - 00:12:55:09
And no means would you have to bump someone
00:12:56:01 - 00:12:58:09
as from losing their job because someone's on leave.
00:12:59:08 - 00:13:00:06
Interesting.
00:13:00:06 - 00:13:00:20
Yeah.
00:13:00:20 - 00:13:04:14
Another situation that we think about is that when it comes
00:13:04:14 - 00:13:09:04
to disciplining people, you know, all of our employees are expected to,
00:13:09:05 - 00:13:12:05
you know, contribute to the company, have good attitudes,
00:13:13:03 - 00:13:16:20
be professional, follow policies, follow you, call on procedures
00:13:17:16 - 00:13:21:07
and whether or not that's when we need to step in and discipline
00:13:22:10 - 00:13:24:14
in is performance
00:13:24:14 - 00:13:27:00
a person who's on leave is not immune to that.
00:13:27:00 - 00:13:29:01
They still need to do their job and perform well.
00:13:29:08 - 00:13:32:20
And if a person's on leave and those discussions were happening
00:13:32:20 - 00:13:36:05
before they left, the manager should be resuming
00:13:36:05 - 00:13:38:08
those conversations as soon as the person leaves.
00:13:39:05 - 00:13:41:11
Well, there's some good real life examples
00:13:41:11 - 00:13:44:02
that a lot of employers can resonate with those.
00:13:44:10 - 00:13:48:06
So are there any other resources that you would recommend to employers?
00:13:48:23 - 00:13:49:09
I would.
00:13:49:09 - 00:13:52:04
So I did mention earlier our disability toolkit.
00:13:52:12 - 00:13:54:03
Those begin really comprehensive.
00:13:54:03 - 00:13:56:06
I think very helpful to use.
00:13:56:06 - 00:13:59:05
Obviously calling the hotline I think is a really important tool
00:13:59:05 - 00:14:02:13
because these are, you know, complex things that should be talked through.
00:14:02:21 - 00:14:04:12
Even if you think you understand.
00:14:04:12 - 00:14:07:05
And what you could be handling is always good to talk through it.
00:14:07:05 - 00:14:11:16
Make sure your hitting all the points, And then we do have a really great
00:14:11:16 - 00:14:15:10
training class that we offer that's called supervisor and the law.
00:14:16:09 - 00:14:19:20
It's in-person or virtual and it includes leaves.
00:14:20:05 - 00:14:22:02
It's available for our supervisors. Good.
00:14:22:02 - 00:14:25:14
We'll link from the show notes to for for our viewers.
00:14:26:09 - 00:14:28:14
Yeah. And I learned a lot. Sure.
00:14:28:19 - 00:14:30:12
You helped a lot of people out today.
00:14:30:12 - 00:14:32:08
So thank you for being our guest today.
00:14:32:08 - 00:14:35:04
In 30 minutes Thrive and really sharing your knowledge
00:14:35:04 - 00:14:38:15
and what you hear on this hot topic on the hotline.
00:14:39:05 - 00:14:43:13
So if you liked our chat and topic today, I encourage you to share this episode,
00:14:43:13 - 00:14:46:08
like give it a review, share it with your friends,
00:14:46:17 - 00:14:50:00
and consider joining MRA if you aren't a member already.
00:14:50:06 - 00:14:53:12
We have linked all resources in the show notes below for you,
00:14:53:21 - 00:14:56:02
so you should be all prepared for that.
00:14:56:02 - 00:15:00:03
And we've also linked Amy's LinkedIn profile in the show notes,
00:15:00:13 - 00:15:03:04
as well as MRA's hotline information.
00:15:03:04 - 00:15:07:08
So if you want to get in touch with her or get connected with the hotline,
00:15:07:19 - 00:15:11:18
we have that available for you in the show notes to thank you for tuning in today.
00:15:11:18 - 00:15:15:07
And thank you, Amy, for being a great guest and we will.
00:15:15:07 - 00:15:17:13
See you next week. That was fun. Thanks.
16 min

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