Tales from the 10th

 What does justice look like beyond convictions and courtrooms? Former United States Attorney Alex Uballez discusses his path from Oakland, California, to leading federal prosecutions in New Mexico, offering an inside look at the work of the U.S. Attorney's Office and the challenges of balancing public safety with fairness. Along the way, he reflects on leadership, public service, and the moments that convinced him that lasting change often comes from investing in people rather than simply punishing them. 

 In this special live-recorded episode of Tales from the 10th, a panel of legal experts, landowners, and state officials examines the Tenth Circuit's landmark decision in Iron Bar Holdings v. Cape, the case that brought national attention to "corner crossing." While the court held that crossing between federal public lands without touching private property is lawful under specific circumstances, the discussion explores the many practical, legal, and policy questions the decision left unresolved from state trust lands and damaged survey markers to trespass liability and future legislative action. 

Moderator: Professor Alan Romero, Senior Associate Dean at the University of Wyoming College of Law and Director of the Rural Law Center. 

Presenters:

•  David Willms, Associate Vice President, Public Lands at the National Wildlife Federation, and Adjunct Professor at the University of Wyoming
• Jim Magagna, with the Wyoming Stock Growers Association 
• David Dewald, Deputy Attorney General, Water & Natural Resources Division.

In this second installment of Tales from the 10th, the conversation continues with judges who have served in Yellowstone National Park, offering a deeper look into one of the most unique judicial environments in the country. The episode explores memorable and often surprising case from tourists interacting dangerously with wildlife to high-profile defendants and unusual criminal activity in the park.

Through these stories, the judges highlight the delicate balance between enforcing federal law and preserving Yellowstone’s natural ecosystem, where human instincts often clash with the realities of the wild. The discussion also touches on the powerful influence of social media, the challenges of public misunderstanding, and the educational role of both the courts and park rangers.

Beyond the courtroom, the episode paints a vivid picture of life in a remote community of just a few hundred residents, where encounters with wildlife are routine, anonymity is nonexistent, and even ordering a pizza can come with unexpected complications.

Blending humor, insight, and reflection, this episode offers a fascinating look at how justice operates in one of America’s most extraordinary landscapes. 

In this episode of Tales from the 10th, Chief Judge Jerome A. Holmes reflects on his career, from his early influences in a family rooted in international service to his path through law school, clerkships, and public service.

Holmes discusses the formative role of mentorshiip, particularly from Judges Wayne Alley and William J. Holloway and how those experiences shaped his approach to law, professionalism, and leadership. He highlights the evolution of legal practice, noting the shift from labor-intensive research to today’s emphasis on judgment and analysis in an information-rich environment.

The conversation also explores his transition from private practice to the U.S. Attorney’s Office, his pursuit of leadership training at Harvard, and his eventual return to Oklahoma, where he built a career in public service that led to his appointment to the Tenth Circuit.

As Chief Judge, Holmes explains the broader responsibilities of the role, including administrative leadership across the circuit and contributions to national judicial policy. He closes with advice to young lawyers: approach your career with intention, pursue work that aligns with your values, and define success on your own terms. 

In Part One of this multi-part series, Tales from the 10th explores the unique administration of federal justice inside Yellowstone National Park, one of the only places in the country with a full-time magistrate judge and federal courthouse located entirely within a national park.

Host Erin Gust is joined by Yellowstone Magistrate Judge Stephanie Hambrick and former Magistrate Judge Mark Carman to trace the court’s origins, its evolution, and the realities of modern judicial life in the park. The episode begins with the court’s 19th-century roots, including the passage of the 1894 Lacey Act following rampant poaching and the arrest of infamous bison poacher Ed Howell. That legislation not only protected Yellowstone’s wildlife and resources but also created the commissioner role that would later become today’s magistrate judge position.

The judges discuss John Meldrum, Yellowstone’s first magistrate judge, whose 41-year tenure spanned stagecoach robberies, Prohibition, and World War I, and whose home doubled as a courthouse and jail. From there, the conversation moves into the present day, examining the modern Yellowstone docket—ranging from traffic violations and DUIs to wildlife harassment, thermal trespass, and visitor safety cases.

Judge Hambrick and Judge Carman explain how Yellowstone’s court operates differently from most federal courts, including its unique local rule allowing any licensed U.S. attorney to appear without special admission, the frequent use of video hearings and interpreters, and the logistical challenges posed by geography, tourism, and limited cell service. They also describe the park’s small detention facility, seasonal caseload fluctuations, and the close working relationships between the court, park rangers, and the U.S. Attorney’s Office—all housed in the same building.

The episode highlights Judge Carman’s innovative sentencing approaches aimed at education and rehabilitation, particularly for young seasonal workers, and reflects on how policy shifts, COVID-19, and changes in park infrastructure have altered enforcement and court practices over time.

Part One concludes with personal reflections from both judges on their paths to the Yellowstone bench, the challenges and rewards of serving in such an isolated and iconic setting, and why the Yellowstone magistrate judgeship is widely regarded as one of the most unique and coveted judicial positions in the country.

In this second episode in Breaking the Marble Ceiling series fromTales from the 10th, host Laila Kassis sits down with Judge Deanell Tacha, whose journey from a small town in Kansas to Chief Judge of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit is nothing short of remarkable. Judge Tacha shares stories of her early mentors, her unexpected path to law school during the Vietnam era, and her groundbreaking role as one of the few women in the legal profession at the time.

She reflects on her experiences in Washington D.C. during Watergate, her years shaping young legal minds at the University of Kansas, and the challenges and triumphs of her judicial career, including helping modernize the 10th Circuit and building strong collegial relationships on the bench. Judge Tacha also offers candid insight into balancing family, leadership, and public service, ending with reflections on her later work as Dean of Pepperdine Law.

This conversation is filled with humor, humility, and history, a vivid portrait of a woman who helped shape both the judiciary and the path for those who followed.

In this episode of Tales from the 10th, host Erin Gust interviews her former boss, Judge Timothy M. Tymkovich, about his life, career, and more than two decades on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 10th Circuit. Judge Tymkovich reflects on his Colorado roots, his early influences, and his path from the Attorney General’s Office to the federal bench. He shares insights into his time as Chief Judge, the challenges of leading during the pandemic and the McGirt decision, and his service on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review.
The conversation also explores his friendship with Justice Neil Gorsuch, the collegial culture of the 10th Circuit, and the court’s significant role in shaping areas like First Amendment, Indian law, and environmental law. Judge Tymkovich discusses memorable cases such as Hobby Lobby, 303 Creative, and Bishop v. Utah, as well as his dedication to mentoring clerks and supporting judicial education.
The episode closes with reflections on the judiciary’s vital role in maintaining constitutional balance, his optimism for the future of the republic, and personal stories from his travels to Ukraine and Israel.

Judge Stephanie Seymour, interviewed in July 2025, reflects on her 46-year tenure as a judge on the 10th Circuit. Born in Battle Creek, Michigan, she attended Smith College and Harvard Law School, where she was one of 23 women in a class of 580. Seymour discussed her early career challenges, including being the only woman in law firms and balancing motherhood with her legal practice. She highlighted significant cases like the Muskogee Creek Nation bingo case and the Brown vs. Board of Education reopening. Seymour also shared her experiences as Chief Judge, including handling the Oklahoma City bombing case and the evolution of the courts.

Judge Richard P. Matsch (1930-2019) served as a United States District Judge for the District of Colorado from 1974 to 2019. He is best known for his service as the trial judge in charge of the criminal trials of Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, who were convicted in 1997 for their roles in the 1995 bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City. 

Second podcast episode:

In the second podcast episode, Judge Matsch discussed his work overseeing the United States v. McVeigh and United States v. Nichols criminal cases. Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols were charged with orchestrating the April 19, 1995 bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City.

Matsch sought to hold fair trials that respected both the interest of the people in Oklahoma harmed by the bombing of the federal building and also the rights of the criminal defendants. 

Part of protecting the defendants’ rights included providing significant financial support for the defense teams. Matsch famously told participants: “This is not theater; this is a trial.”

McVeigh was convicted in 1997, sentenced to death, and executed in 2001 after an appeal of his conviction. Nichols was convicted in 1997 and sentenced to life in prison.

Judge Matsch explained how he dealt with public interest in the trial:

I stressed to everybody, this case is not about me. When I was first notified of this, the press got it; there was a demand that there be an opportunity to talk to me about it. So I stood out on the courthouse steps on that afternoon and answered a few questions, but that was the last time I ever met with the press. It was important to recognize, all right, this is a trial. We have a lot of trials. We're doing this as much as possible. It's just another trial. 

When it comes to the trial itself, of course, the fundamental question is fairness and the ability to see the defendant sitting at defense table as a human being and not objectify this person as someone who has done some terrible crime.

But he also explained how he dealt at trial with the emotionally powerful evidence:

So in the Oklahoma City trials, I had the difficult problem of very emotional testimony from people in the building and relatives. That was heartbreaking. One of the most emotional parts of that case was that right there in the front of that building was a nursery, a daycare center, and all those children were killed, including babies. And we had, of course, a lot of visualization of the scene. We had as evidence the initial response. All of this was relevant to the size of the explosive device and what it, what the principal components were. Because the connection--one of the connections here, and particularly Terry Nichols, was the ammonium phosphate fertilizer, as being the major component of the bomb, which was, a series of barrels connected with ammonium nitrate, fuel oil, and other. So, I took the position that the impact, the nature of the building, and all that was relevant to the structure of the bomb.

Judge Richard P. Matsch (1930-2019) served as a United States District Judge for the District of Colorado from 1974 to 2019. He is best known for his service as the trial judge in charge of the criminal trials of Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, who were convicted in 1997 for their roles in the 1995 bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City. 

Before Matsch’s service as a federal judge, he worked as a lawyer in private practice in Denver, a federal prosecutor, and a bankruptcy referee and bankruptcy judge in Colorado. Matsch grew up in Burlington, Iowa, worked in his father’s grocery store there, and attended a junior college and then the University of Michigan for college and law school. After law school, he served in the U.S. Army from 1953-55 around the end of the Korean War doing counterintelligence work in South Korea. 

In describing his career as a public servant, Judge Matsch quoted George Bernard Shaw:

I’m of the opinion that my life belongs to the community. And as long as I live, it is my privilege to do for it whatever I can. I want to be thoroughly used up when I die. For the harder I work, the more I live. Life is no brief candle for me; it is a sort of splendid torch which I’ve got hold of for a moment and want to make it burn as brightly as possible before handing it on to future generations.

The full oral history interview of Judge Matsch in 2018 by U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Bruce Campbell (retired), from which these podcasts are excerpted, is available at the Historical Society’s website at:  https://www.10thcircuithistory.org/oral-histories

First podcast episode:

In the first podcast episode, Judge Matsch discussed his work on the Keyes v. School District No. 1 case from 1973 to 1995, implementing the U.S. Supreme Court’s direction in 1973 to have a federal judge oversee desegregation “root and branch” of the Denver Public Schools through busing of students. Ultimately in 1995, Judge Matsch held that the vestiges of past discrimination by the school district had been eliminated to the extent practicable, and ended the mandatory busing of students in Denver Public Schools.

Matsch also discussed in this episode several other cases that involved constitutional issues including free speech and the free exercise of religion under the First Amendment, and equal protection under the Fourteenth Amendment.

In Judge Matsch’s 1977 ruling that called for girls to be able participate in a Colorado high school soccer program comparable to boys soccer, he noted:

Any notion that young women are so inherently weak, delicate or physically inadequate that the State must protect them from the folly of participation in vigorous athletics is a cultural anachronism unrelated to reality. The Constitution does not permit the use of governmental power to control or limit cultural changes or to prescribe masculine and feminine roles.

Hoover v. Meiklejohn, 430 F.Supp. 164 (D. Colo. 1977).