Talking Europe

European political leaders tried to switch off for a few weeks in August, but they must have had a lot on their minds. Russian forces have advanced in the Donbas, in eastern Ukraine. A summit in Alaska between the Russian and American presidents set off alarm bells in Kyiv and in the EU. And members of European governments are smarting from a trade deal with US President Donald Trump that leaves a 15 percent tariff ceiling on most EU products coming into the US – this as the European Union wants to assert its competitiveness and its strategic weight in the world. We discuss all this and more with our guests.

Programme prepared by Oihana Almandoz, Isabelle Romero and Perrine Desplats

As this political season draws to a close, we bring you a showcase of our interviews with Europe's movers and shakers. They broach the top issues that have dominated the agenda over the past year, from competitiveness and simplification to corporate responsibility; from disinformation to "Choose Europe" for research and innovation; and, of course, the big geopolitical topics such as Ukraine and the Trump presidency.

Programme prepared by Perrine Desplats, Isabelle Romero, Luke Brown and Oihana Almandoz

The coalition of Ursula von der Leyen in the European Parliament is holding up, but it is looking increasingly fragile. Centrist, Socialist and Green members of that coalition are deeply troubled by what they see as an alignment between the conservative European People's Party (EPP) and the far right. And they say they want the EU Commission president to get a grip on the EPP. The entire coalition did come together to see off a vote of no-confidence in von der Leyen on July 10. But that support came at a price. Party group leaders insist their backing of the Commission chief is not unconditional and that they want to see a change in policy direction. That is exactly the line taken by our guest, Valérie Hayer, who is the leader of the centrist Renew bloc in the EU Parliament and a French MEP since 2019.

"I want a strong commitment on common policies, and I want a better cooperation, both between the Commission and the European Parliament, and also within the European Parliament, between the EPP and the pro-European groups, which is not the case yet," Hayer asserts. "If we don't have any strong commitment, any willingness from the EPP group that they want to work together with the pro-European agenda, and if we don't have any commitment from Ursula von der Leyen, then of course we will have to take decisions. And that could indeed be not to take part any more in this coalition."

We put it to Hayer that the EPP has not sided with the far right in the great majority of votes over the past year. "But when you look at the most important files in the European Parliament, they decided consciously to make a deal with the far right. I can give you lots of examples," Hayer responds. "Nothing can be achieved with the far right, because the far right just wants to undermine Europe," she adds.

We ask Hayer how France is going to deal with its huge public debt, while at the same time increase its defence spending by €3.5 billion in 2026. Is it not a contradiction to spend more money while also making austerity cuts? "We have to push for more investment at the national but also at the European level," Hayer responds.  "We are under threat with disinformation, cyberattacks and so on. And President Macron had also a very pro-European stance when he decided and announced this increase in defence spending. So I think we don't have any other choice."

On the subject of public spending, the EU Commission has now made its proposal for the next big seven-year EU budget, and it represents an increase on the current 2021-2027 budget, which Hayer helped to negotiate. "We want to have a strong competitiveness fund to support our industries," Hayer says. "We also want to have a 'European preference' with local content [in strategic investments]. And a key demand from our group is that we want a strong commitment vis-a-vis the rule of law, especially with the smart conditionality, which means no euros going to autocrats and governments who don't respect our common rules. But on the ground, mayors and NGOs should still benefit from [EU] money."

Hayer also talks about US President Donald Trump and his stated intent to impose 30 percent tariffs on EU imports on August 1. "First of all, nobody has any interest in this trade war. Nobody. Neither the EU, nor the US," she answers. "Now, the unity of Europe is absolutely key. Of course we should support the Commission strategy and leave the political space for negotiation. But if on the 1st of August we don't have enough in the negotiations, let's not be shy. We are a power. We have a huge market that is interesting for US companies, and we should have these countermeasures to convey the message to Donald Trump that we will not be fooled."

Programme prepared by Perrine Desplats and Isabelle Romero

The EU is aiming to double high-speed rail traffic by 2030 and triple it by 2050. But harmonising rail networks across the continent is easier said than done. While some cross-border routes have opened in 2025, other projects have been hampered by a lack of infrastructure or investment, as well as vested interests in the EU member states.

Our panelists discuss what it would take to change this situation – rail travel being a component of the EU's stated goal of becoming climate-neutral by 2050.

Programme prepared by Perrine Desplats and Isabelle Romero

The Green Deal is often seen as the flagship project of the previous EU mandate. But after last year's European elections, in which right-wing parties performed well, the Green Deal was rebranded as the Clean Industrial Deal. There is now more emphasis on industrial revival and competitiveness.

MEPs and members of the European Commission say the EU should not have to choose between re-industrialisation and meeting climate objectives, but rather do both. Officially, the goal of becoming climate-neutral by 2050 remains. In practice, though, how to strike that balance is a bone of contention between competing political forces in the European Union.

We dive into what's at stake with two MEPs.

Programme prepared by Perrine Desplats and Isabelle Romero

It is estimated that around 44 percent of European citizens keep a pet. MEPs have now set out the first ever minimum standards in the EU for the breeding, housing and handling of cats and dogs. This is because a majority of owners buy their pets online, and traceability has become a big issue.

The European Parliament hopes that its draft law will deal with the irresponsible importation of animals from outside the EU, and reduce the influence of criminal networks. The trade in cats and dogs is worth around €1.3 billion per year.

Programme prepared by Perrine Desplats and Isabelle Romero

We host the EU Ombudswoman, former Portuguese politician Teresa Anjinho, who says she aims to make her office the "reference point for integrity issues". The office itself is called the EU Ombudsman, even though it has now been led by two women. It was established in the early 1990s as an independent institution that investigates complaints about poor administration by EU institutions and bodies. We discuss the priorities of her five-year mandate, which began this February, and the transparency issues surrounding scandals such as "Pfizergate", "Qatargate" and "Huaweigate".

We ask Anjinho about the increase in complaints to the Ombudsman where public access to documents has been denied. "So let's look at the bright side first," she answers. "If we have a rise in complaints, this is positive because in a way people are aware of the existence of the office and are also aware of their rights. Now the not-so-bright side is that, well, if they are complaining, it's because what we are promising in terms of citizens’ participation is not being complied with. It's the gap between expectations and reality. And you rightly pointed out a very important issue of transparency. We did have a rise of 42.2 percent in complaints last year, related mainly to access to documents. I think we do have room for improvement. It's clear that we need a framework that is more compliant with the needs of citizens, because access to documents goes hand in hand with a stronger democracy."

We talk about the undisclosed text messages between EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen and the CEO of Pfizer during the Covid-19 pandemic. Anjinho says that she raised "Pfizergate" during a meeting with von der Leyen in June. "It was important for me to pass the message that this is a very important issue for my office," Anjinho states. "The ruling of the (EU General) Court was very clear in terms of good administration. And it implicitly recognised that text messages are documents. The court was also clear that the Commission should have done more in saying if it has the messages or not, if the messages were deleted automatically, or if it changed the mobile. So these questions will have to be addressed by the Commission, and hopefully they are committed to addressing them and being compliant with the court cases."

Anjinho has spoken about the importance of responsible lobbying, in the light of recurring scandals such as "Qatargate" and "Huaweigate". "We do have an integrity framework, and many institutions are doing their best to strengthen this integrity framework," she says. "However, when we have scandals like "Qatargate" and "Huaweigate" – that is actually pending a case in the Belgian courts – they damage the trust in and the reputation of the European Union as a whole, and you forget about all the efforts that the institutions are making."

We point out that the EU Parliament's Constitutional Affairs Committee blocked the independent EU ethics body mooted after "Qatargate", in a recent committee vote. "I believe [the ethics body] is a good idea because it establishes a body that is competent to have common standards between all institutions, including the Council," Anjinho responds. "However, what the citizen should also recognise is that this independent ethics body [would not] have the competence to receive complaints. But there are important institutions that do have this competence, namely the European Ombudsman. And I actually aim to guarantee that my office is recognised as a reference institution for integrity issues."

Programme prepared by Luke Brown, Perrine Desplats and Isabelle Romero

North Macedonia is a strategically important country in the Western Balkans, which was granted EU candidate status nearly 20 years ago, alongside Croatia. But while Croatia has now long been a member of the EU, North Macedonia is still waiting. We look at the reasons for the many delays with the country's Deputy Prime Minister Aleksandar Nikoloski. We also discuss his official visit to France, a country that effectively blocked North Macedonia's EU membership in 2019 – although relations between the two countries are now much better, Nikoloski states.

Nikoloski describes how his whole adult life has been marked by the limbo surrounding North Macedonia's EU membership. "It is true that he we have been waiting for 25 years," he says. "It was 2000. I was in high school when we got an association status to the European Union during the [Thessaloniki] summit. Back in 2005, I was already at university, we got candidate status. And back in 2008, we got the first recommendation to open accession talks. At that time I was already a member of parliament for two years. Today it is 25 [years]. I'm deputy prime minister and we have still not opened accession talks. There are many reasons, but two are crucial. For a long period we had a veto by Greece. It was resolved back in 2018. Then there was the reform of the European Union and the block of France that you mentioned back in 2019. As soon as it was resolved in 2020, our dear friends from Bulgaria decided to issue a veto on us, and since then we are under veto of Bulgaria. Unfortunately our neighbourhood is as it is."

We put it to Nikoloski that the European Parliament has called on his country to make constitutional amendments and to include the Bulgarian minority in North Macedonia in those amendments. In other words, there is a European consensus asking for constitutional changes, rather than just Bulgaria. Nikoloski counters: "The substance of the problem is that Bulgaria is using its membership of the EU to put pressure on us. They are neglecting our language, our culture and our national identity. There are 14 decisions by the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg for the Macedonian minority in Bulgaria that Bulgaria is not implementing. So on one side, you don't respect what the European Court is saying. And on the other side, you abuse your position to block the neighbour. That's why we are stuck."

Again, we put it to Nikoloski that Bulgaria is not solely responsible for the delays in North Macedonia's EU accession. The European Commission, in its last enlargement report, gave arguably a lukewarm assessment, noting "some level of preparation" in key areas, while the European Parliament's Foreign Affairs Committee has talked of "worsening trends in high-level corruption and low public trust in the judiciary". Nikoloski responds: "I totally agree. This government was elected one year ago and the biggest challenge was the judiciary. The public trust in the judiciary is only 2 percent, and we are not satisfied with the level of the judiciary and the prosecutor. We will do the reforms together (with the EU). There is a big expertise that is coming from the European Commission that we are using for this, and we are thankful for that."

Nikoloski also holds the transport portfolio in the government of North Macedonia, which is important given the country's connectivity projects. "We have a very unique geographical location. Two pan-European corridors are intersecting just east of our capital, Skopje, which is a unique case in the entire southeastern Europe," he says. One of those corridors was declared "as the second most important corridor for NATO because it is an alternative route for the supply of Ukraine", he explains. Nikoloski goes on to say: "We have huge plans and that is why we signed a government-to-government agreement with the United Kingdom, where we have £5 billion or €6 billion at our disposal for these kinds of projects. I'm looking for something similar as well in France, and we are looking for that kind of partnership with other countries in Europe as well."

Programme prepared by Luke Brown, Perrine Desplats and Isabelle Romero

At a jam-packed EU summit in Brussels, we caught up with Sweden's EU Affairs Minister, Jessica Rosencrantz. Bouncing off Slovakia's and Hungary's opposition to a potential new round of Russia sanctions, she touches on the Hungarian government's ban on this Saturday's Pride march, insisting that the EU must be prepared to use "all the tools in its toolbox" to make sure that the rule of law is respected.

On the main thrust of the EU and NATO summits, Rosencrantz says: "It’s been a historic week. Leaders have agreed on a very ambitious 5 percent (of GDP spending on defence) target at the NATO summit and at the European Council. Sweden has full focus on this, and we have an eight-party agreement, so all the parties in the Swedish parliament agree to reach this target."

Rosencrantz elaborates: "In Sweden, we say that the support to Ukraine is our most important foreign policy priority. And we can also see now that Europe has actually surpassed the US when it comes to military support to Ukraine. We have a crucial role to play and we really have to maintain our focus, but not just by talking, but also by delivering concrete support. And that is something that the Nordic and Baltic countries are taking a lead in."

While talks on the latest potential round of sanctions stalled at the EU summit, Rosencrantz stresses that "Sweden has been pushing for the 18th sanctions package. We think it's really important to put further pressure on Russia alongside our direct support to Ukraine. Different countries have different views, but so far we have managed to agree on the previous 17 sanctions packages. So I have good faith."

Turning to the Hungarian governments controversial ban on the June 28 Pride march, Rosencrantz opines: "To me, it's really important to say that the EU is not just a geographical union. We're a union based on values. And as a member state, you have signed up to respecting fundamental values such as rule of law, anti-corruption, independent judiciary and for allowing people to be who they are and love who they are. So implementing legislation in Hungary, that basically means forbidding Pride parades, but also actually means imposing restrictions on people's possibility to meet or to express their opinions – that's a serious breach. So I think it's important to use all the tools in the toolbox."

Asked what concrete action could follow, she replies: "You know, we have different tools. One thing is, going into the upcoming negotiations on the [EU] budget, not a single euro should go to a country that does not respect rule of law or our basic common principles, and that's something that Sweden will be really pushing for in this multiannual framework. The second is to intervene, legally, in different court processes in the European Court of Justice. Right now, Sweden is intervening in many cases, including on the LGBT law. And also last but not least, we have Article Seven, which is sort of the ultimate tool in the toolbox. I think we should be prepared there to take the next step in discussing what we can do."

We also discuss the Middle East, and what leverage – if any – the EU has when it comes to Gaza. "The situation in Gaza is terrible. We are always standing up for Israel's right to defend itself against Hamas. But the way that Israel is conducting its warfare at the moment is unacceptable," Rosencrantz states, adding: "Sweden is actually the second-largest donor of humanitarian support to Gaza in the EU. And this humanitarian aid does not reach the people that need it. So we need to put pressure on Israel to make sure that humanitarian aid gets into Gaza. We have welcomed the review of the [Israel-EU] Association Agreement. And there are clear indications that Israel is not living up to all the standards that it should. What we want as a next step is to have clear recommendations on how we can take this process further. We're also pushing for sanctions against some of the ministers in the Israeli government who are not seeking a two-state solution and are hindering the way forward."

Programme prepared by Luke Brown, Perrine Desplats, Isabelle Romero and Agnès Le Cossec

We speak to Germany's Minister of State for Europe, Gunther Krichbaum, on the day that NATO leaders convened for a crunch summit in The Hague that approved a higher defence spending target of 5 percent of GDP. Krichbaum argues that the current "irritations" in the transatlantic relationship make it even more important for Europe to define its own interests, especially in defence policy. A staunch Francophile and French speaker, Krichbaum argues that it is time for Germany and France to find a consensus and an atmosphere of trust. "This is now the new dimension of French-German relations," he states.

While relations with France under the previous German government of Olaf Scholz were sometimes strained, Krichbaum suggests that things are changing under the new chancellor, Friedrich Merz. "It's no secret that we had different opinions between France and Germany in the past," Krichbaum says. "But the decisive point is that we have to finally find a consensus and to have an atmosphere of trust. And this, I think, is now the new dimension of French-German relations. We are not only opening a new page. We want to open a new chapter in German-French relations. But I think the instruments we have are sufficient. We don't need more common debts in Europe because the national states have a responsibility for their own national budgets." Krichbaum certainly does not exclude more European investment, but he says that "we should always take into account that we have to guarantee fair conditions between the generations. So that means not making more debts, more debts, more debts, but also thinking about the next generation, because this [debt] has to be paid back one day."

On NATO and European defence, Krichbaum asserts that "Europe has to stay together; it has to define its own interest. And especially in defence politics." The German government is planning to invest "3.5 percent of GDP directly for defence, and 1.5 percent for infrastructure, which helps to achieve the goals we have in common. This is ambitious, and it cannot be reached within the next year or in 2027. But finally it's a target, and it should be achieved together. Germany did not realise the 2 percent targets a few years ago, but I think the challenges are enormously high, and without security, we can do nothing in the world, nothing in Europe and nothing in Germany."

Recently, Russian President Vladimir Putin warned Berlin not to supply Taurus cruise missiles to Ukraine, while also saying that he is open to talking to the German chancellor. Krichbaum says that he personally was "always in favour of delivering Taurus, because it's necessary that Ukraine can defend itself. The United States wants to withdraw more and more from Ukraine because they concentrate more on the future on the Pacific. On China, Taiwan and the whole area. And so we have to concentrate on our task. And that means [supporting] Ukraine as a European country." He clarifies that no decision on Taurus has been made by the German government so far, but adds that "in the past we were transparent and so Putin could react because he knew at each stage what Europe will do next, what Germany will do next. And this transparency is not helpful".

Finally, asked about Berlin's steadfast support for Israel and the US in the conflict with Iran, Krichbaum asserts: "Nobody can live in peace thinking that the [Iranian] mullah regime has a nuclear weapon. So I would dare to say that if it was possible to destroy all the plants, the enrichment plants in Iran, then I think this is a contribution to more security, not only for the region, but for the world. And now it is also necessary to find further solutions in negotiations."

Programme prepared by Isabelle Romero, Perrine Desplats and Luke Brown