Talking to Mormons

What became of the papyrus scrolls – that the Book of Abraham was translated from.

Once Joseph Smith was killed in 1844, the papyri collection remained in the possession of his widow, Emma.  Remember she refused to follow the leadership of Brigham Young, and remained in Nauvoo with her children while the Saints moved west to the Utah Territory.

In October of 1880, the Book of Abraham was included in The Pearl of Great Price which was officially canonized at the Church’s semi-annual General Conference in Salt Lake City. 

The Introduction to the Book of Abraham reads, “The writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by his own hand, upon papyrus.”

In Matthew chapter 26, as the Jewish religious leaders are plotting Jesus’s death and bargaining with Judas Iscariot, our Lord institutes the memorial of communion with the remaining eleven apostles in the upper room.  Verse 26 “And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.”  And He breaks the unleavened bread to symbolize the torture His flesh was about to endure.  Verse 27-28 “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament (meaning the new covenant of grace, not the law), which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”  Then the Lord says something interesting, Verse 29 “But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”  The blood of the New Covenant is not an animal’s blood, but Christ’s own blood. This is the last time the Master will partake of these elements with His disciples during His mortal life.  And, only when His Father’s kingdom is established in heaven will we partake of the wine again.  This Passover marked the end of an old era – where sacrifice looked forward to the Atonement.  And the beginning of a new era -when communion was to be in remembrance of the Atonement.  Jesus transforms the last Passover into the first observance of the Lord’s Supper.  Verse 30 “And when they had sung an hymn, they went out into the mount of Olives.”  Which was a short walk outside the east city wall of Jerusalem.  

What became of the papyrus scrolls – that the Book of Abraham was translated from.

Once Joseph Smith was killed in 1844, the papyri collection remained in the possession of his widow, Emma.  Remember she refused to follow the leadership of Brigham Young, and remained in Nauvoo with her children while the Saints moved west to the Utah Territory.

In October of 1880, the Book of Abraham was included in The Pearl of Great Price which was officially canonized at the Church’s semi-annual General Conference in Salt Lake City. 

The Introduction to the Book of Abraham reads, “The writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by his own hand, upon papyrus.”

Have you ever read and prayed to know if the Book of Mormon is true? This is a common phrase used by the Latter-day Saint.

The “Moroni Challenge.” Is recorded in the Book of Moroni 10:4-5. 

“And when ye shall receive theses things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.  And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.”

How does God manifest the truth by the Holy Ghost?

“You will feel a burning in your bosom or, a peaceful feeling will come over you.”

So, to prove if anything is true we are to put all our trust in our feelings?  Don’t you think that’s a little dangerous?

Cause God doesn’t use feelings to testify of truth.  Feelings in Scripture are often spoken of as untrustworthy.  Let’s read Proverbs 28:26.

“He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.” 

Is it proper to use feelings as a test for truth?  Our feelings can be influenced by many outside sources which may not be reliable. 

Honestly, I’m convinced the Book of Mormon is not the Word of God.  And it’s not because of anything I felt or failed to feel.  It’s because of what is true and what is not true. 

What do you believe is not true about it?

Okay, “Author and Proprietor Joseph Smith.” is printed and stated in the original 1830 Book of Mormon.  He owned the copyright, and he intended to make money from that.  It is obvious that Joseph knew nothing about the ancient American world or ancient Jewish culture, because he makes some horrible errors and oversights in the Book of Mormon. 

Such as:

The complete lack of archaeological support for the Book of Mormon.
The numerous historical anachronisms in the Book of Mormon.
Racism taught and displayed in the Book of Mormon.
Plagiarism of the King James Version passages in the Book of Mormon. 

So, you see with a logical rational mind I can reason that the Book of Mormon is not what it claims to be.  Certainly not the Word of God.

What became of the papyrus scrolls – that the Book of Abraham was translated from.

Once Joseph Smith was killed in 1844, the papyri collection remained in the possession of his widow, Emma.  Remember she refused to follow the leadership of Brigham Young, and remained in Nauvoo with her children while the Saints moved west to the Utah Territory.

In October of 1880, the Book of Abraham was included in The Pearl of Great Price which was officially canonized at the Church’s semi-annual General Conference in Salt Lake City. 

The Introduction to the Book of Abraham reads, “The writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by his own hand, upon papyrus.”

Beginning in John chapter 13, Jesus moves away from public ministry to private ministry with those who were His disciples.  As the lesson manual says, “Today we call it the ‘Last Supper,’ but we don’t know if Jesus’s disciples fully realized, when they gathered for the annual Passover feast, that this would be their last meal with their Master before his death.  Jesus, however, ‘knew that his hour was come.’”  While the people were celebrating the feast of the Passover memorial of what happened to their forefathers in Egypt – Jesus was getting ready to become the actual Lamb of this Passover.  As they were concluding their meal, Verse 4 “He (Jesus) riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself.” – in the manner that a slave or servant would.  Verses 5-9 “After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples’ feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded. Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet?”  Peter seems shocked at the actions of the Lord.  “Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.  Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet.  Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.  Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head (In that case, please wash me completely).”  Verses 12-16 “So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you?  Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.  If the, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another’s feet (you ought to serve one another).  For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.  Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.” 

What became of the papyrus scrolls – that the Book of Abraham was translated from.

Once Joseph Smith was killed in 1844, the papyri collection remained in the possession of his widow, Emma.  Remember she refused to follow the leadership of Brigham Young, and remained in Nauvoo with her children while the Saints moved west to the Utah Territory.

In October of 1880, the Book of Abraham was included in The Pearl of Great Price which was officially canonized at the Church’s semi-annual General Conference in Salt Lake City. 

The Introduction to the Book of Abraham reads, “The writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by his own hand, upon papyrus.”

What became of the papyrus scrolls – that the Book of Abraham was translated from.

Once Joseph Smith was killed in 1844, the papyri collection remained in the possession of his widow, Emma.  Remember she refused to follow the leadership of Brigham Young, and remained in Nauvoo with her children while the Saints moved west to the Utah Territory.

In October of 1880, the Book of Abraham was included in The Pearl of Great Price which was officially canonized at the Church’s semi-annual General Conference in Salt Lake City. 

The Introduction to the Book of Abraham reads, “The writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by his own hand, upon papyrus.”

Gospel Topics Essays on LDS.org

There is an important one released in 2014 titled: “Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham”. 

It starts off by stating, “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints embraces the book of Abraham as scripture.”

I’m surprised Church leaders embrace the Book of Abraham after all the problems I pointed out in our previous conversations.  The Book of Abraham is perhaps the biggest reason church members are leaving Mormonism. 

The reason is because there is plenty of evidence to show this LDS Scripture is fraudulent.

Honestly Elders, I believe the Book of Abraham is an embarrassment to the LDS Church.

The Book of Abraham is supposed to be evidence of the inspired calling of the Prophet Joseph Smith.  But it turns out, Smith never translated the ancient writings of Abraham like he claimed he did.  That has been proven beyond a doubt. 

But haven’t LDS scholars proposed a number, of theories to support the reliability of the Book of Abraham?

Yes, but none of these theories has been able to hold up when all the evidence is considered.

It would be worth your time to read “By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus” by Charles Larson for explanations of those theories.  He  shows that there is absolutely no support for Smith’s translation.

Egyptologists all agree that Smith’s translation was inaccurate and that his papyrus source was, in fact, of pagan origin, having nothing to do with father Abraham.

To put it another way – Not a single word, thought, or concept, including his explanations of his three facsimiles, is in any way related to the subject matter

Will you and I be prepared someday to meet the Lord?

In Matthew chapter 24, many prophecies were given which were to be fulfilled as the time of the Second Coming approached.  Chapter 25 continues with instructions on how they were to prepare personally for the Second Coming.  The Savior uses the Parable of the Ten Virgins to teach them.  Verse 1 “Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.”  When the Son of man returns in judgment, the church will be like ten virgins coming to a wedding ceremony.  The coming of Jesus the bridegroom – to receive his church, is often presented like a marriage – with the Church (body of believers) represented as His spouse or bride.  In the Greek the term “virgin” would imply clean vessels, purity by way of being covered by faith in Christ’s blood.  I need to point out in the story that these ten virgins – or maidens – were not brides – but part of the wedding procession.  Verses 2-4 “And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.  They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.”  Now, throughout scripture oil is often pictured as the Holy Spirit, which is one reason in the Old Testament Levitical priesthood ordinations were accompanied by literally pouring olive oil over the head of the High Priest.  So, half of these virgins possessed oil to fortify their torches – lighting the procession way for the groom and His bride – and the other half did not.

Verses 5-6 “While the bridegroom tarried, they all slu