Talking to Mormons

My intention in creating this podcast is to review these New Testament lessons – trying to maintain the same schedule as outlined in the manual.  I will point out the similarities and differences in the Latter-day Saint interpretation of certain verses and passages.  The lesson outlines are pretty general, so the manual recommends that Sunday School Teachers and families use additional resources like: Church Magazines (New Era, Ensign, and Liahona); Hymns; Media library (Artwork, videos); Seminary and Institute Manuals; General Conference addresses; Gospel Topic Essays; Preach My Gospel (guide for missionaries).  Most of these resources can be found in the Gospel Library app and on LDS.org.  So, I will refer to these resources as well. 

In these podcasts, I will touch on New Testament verses that are unique to Mormonism in comparison to traditional Christianity.  It will be up to you to determine if the doctrine taught in the New Testament over the years by the L.D.S. Church is from God or man.  Jesus or Joseph Smith.

There is no other Sabbath rest besides Jesus. He alone satisfies the requirements of the Law, and He alone provides the sacrifice that atones for sin. Believers today, being under the New Covenant, are not bound to keep the sign of the Old Covenant. The New Covenant is better.
During Jesus’ life the Law was still in effect and He observed all of the requirements of the Law in order to save everyone from the demands of the law.

But Latter-day saints will argue that the Sabbath is said to last forever and to be perpetual. How could it no longer be necessary? Exodus 31:16-17 “Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.”

You noticed, this was an agreement between Israel and God. Secondly, if phrases like these were literally applied today to both the Christian Church and the Jews, then everything in the Old Testament that is said to be perpetual should continue today. Such things as burnt offerings, incense burnings, ceremonial washings, Passover Feast, tithing, dietary laws, circumcision.

But the writer of Hebrews explains that the entire Old Covenant has been replaced by a better one. Hebrews 8:6
“But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.”

The New Covenant is different. During Jesus life, the Law was still in effect and He observed all, of the requirements, so as, to save all from the demands of the law.

The veil being torn in two at His death signified that it was finished… just like God was finished on the 7th day and rested. His work was completed. Where the Sabbath, the last day of the week was a day of rest, for those under the law – Jesus said, “Come unto me and I will give you rest” (Matthew 11:28) everyday of your regenerated life.

Latter-day Saints believe God in 1831 gave Joseph Smith a revelation recording in Doctrine and Covenants 59, commanding the Saints to go to church to worship the Lord. Their prophets have told them that they should not shop, hunt, fish, attend sports events, or participate in similar activities on Sunday. they should keep the Sabbath-day holy by reading the scriptures and visiting the sick, and listening to uplifting music, praying, performing service to others, teaching their families.

Why designate one day a week for all of that? Shouldn’t we be wanting to do those things every day of the week?

Pushing its members to observe the Sabbath-day is a blatant misapplication and misappropriation of the Law applied to the present day in order to control the spiritual lives of good people who could have daily, worshipful rest in Jesus.

I’ve no problem with Mormonism attempting to obey the Jewish Sabbath, but they don’t have the right lineage, they don’t have the right day, they don’t have the right application, and they don’t exercise the right punishment for disobedience to it. But perhaps most disturbing is the condemnation such practices place on all who attempt to live by such Law and fail. James 2:10 “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”

There does seem to be some flexibility in the way the LDS view Sabbath-keeping. They have high-profile members who are athletes, celebrities, and businessmen who justify their working on the Sabbath. Other ordinary members are required to work on Sunday to provide for themselves and their families.

If you are living under the, Law then there are

Mormons believe that Sabbath-day observance was established during the days of Adam and Eve.

I noticed the increased emphasis church leaders are putting on Sabbath day observances. 

Latter-day saints believe that Sabbath-day behavior is a, reflection of their commitment to honor and worship God.  By keeping the Sabbath day holy, they show God their willingness to keep their covenants.                                                  

Is there more to keeping the Sabbath day holy that is expected of Latter-day Saints?  

Yes, Latter-day Saints believe that it is a commandment the Lord has given us for our benefit.  Obedience to this commandment brings them peace in this life and eternal life in the world to come. 

Latter-day Saints believe the Sabbath is a day to enjoy a rest from labor.  they should refrain from shopping on the Sabbath and participating in other commercial and sporting activities that now commonly desecrate the Sabbath.                            

Latter-day Saints set this holy day apart from activities of the world by entering, into a spirit of worship, thanksgiving, service, and family-centered activities appropriate for the Sabbath.

So, for Mormons, the Old Testament Covenant of Sabbath-keeping is carried forward into modern times?  Even though it was not included in the New Testament Covenant?

Let’s look at the context of the command in the Old Testament?  In, order to fully understand the Sabbath-day, first mentioned in Exodus 20, it must be seen in the context to whom it was given – The Children of Israel. 

When we read the ten commandments in their context found in Exodus, Chapters 19-24, they are inseparably connected with the Old Covenant of the Law given to the Children of Israel.

The Israelites under the Mosaic Law were to perform no work on Saturday which was the seventh-day of the week.  And, the penalty for desecrating the Sabbath with work was death (Exodus 31:14; Numbers 15:32-36). 

Doesn’t the true Sabbath go back to what God did at the end of creation?  Genesis 2:2-3 says,“And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.  And God blessed the seventh day,and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.” 

Latter-day Church leaders have taught that Sabbath-day observance has been instituted since the says of Adam and Eve.

That’s not true!  The Sabbath “rest” was not instituted at the creation.  Adam and Eve didn’t observe the Sabbath-day.  Why would they?  They were in the Garden with God.  There was no labor to complete. 

The Genesis record was written by Moses as an explanation of why there was a Sabbath, not as evidence of there being a Sabbath at that time.  The Children of Israel did not practice the Law of the Sabbath before Sinai. 

So, what does it mean that God rested on the seventh day from all his work? 

It certainly doesn’t mean God was tired and needed a break. We know that God is all-powerful. He never tires. 

Then, what

Simply that He stopped what He was doing.&n

I see a conflict with the Book of Mormon I’d like to discuss.

“And assuredly, as the Lord liveth, for the Lord God hath spoken it, and it is his eternal word, which cannot pass away that they who are righteous shall be righteous still, and they who are filthy shall be filthy still; wherefore, they who are filthy are the devil and his angels; and they shall go away into everlasting fire, prepared for them; and their torment is a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever and has no end.”

Did you notice the conflict in that passage?

The verse says God’s “eternal word, which cannot pass away.”

Let’s read 1 Nephi 13:26 to see if you can notice the apparent conflict or contradiction to what we just read in 2 Nephi.

“And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away.”

The Book of Mormon teaches on the one hand “plain and precious” truths were “taken away”, but then it also says God’s “eternal word cannot pass away”

So, my question is – which passage do you believe, 1 Nephi or 2 Nephi? Obviously, you cannot believe both to be true. BUT both are found in the Book of Mormon.

Unfortunately, most Latter-day Saints do not see the contradiction.
This is just one of the many contradictions I’ve come across in my reading of the Book of Mormon. I hope we can discuss more of them in, the near future.

I’ve noticed that most groups considered as a cult, teach there was an apostasy of the Christian church, causing that true church to disappear from the face of the earth.  Those groups also teach that the Bible had been tainted and corrupted by men. 

Latter-day Saints do not consider their church a cult. But do believe in a Great Apostasy.

Let’s see

“And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

Jesus is teaching that Hell, or Hades, cannot stand against the growth of the church.  Yet, that is what the claim of the apostasy is suggests.

Latter-day Saints believe this verse is saying that the church ultimately won’t be overcome by Hades.  Because there will be a restoration of that church centuries later. 

But Jesus here is speaking offensively, not defensively.  Jesus is saying the gates of hell will not be able to withstand the growth of the church.

Admittedly, Scripture does say things would become worse and worse before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.  But Jesus would never allow for the church as, a whole, that He is building, that He died for, to be overcome by Satan. 

Latter-day Saints believe the Apostles were killed and there was no one with authority capable of preserving the church.

But you see,it wasn’t up to man to preserve the church. Men weren’t in charge of the Lord’s church.  Jesus was in charge.  And Jesus is fully capable of preserving His church. 

There is an over abundance of Scriptures both in the Old and New Testament that says God’s word will not fail.  He will preserve it.  A beautiful promise made by the Lord himself is in Matthew 24:35.

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”

There never was a point in time when the gospel was not available to men.  And there never was a time where the Scripture was tainted to the point where “plain and precious truths” were removed from the them. 

If that did happen, what would that make Jesus?

A false prophet!

Those inspired writers of the Bible went through painstaking labor to bring us the written word.  Take for example, Dr. Luke who thoroughly researched eyewitness accounts when writing his gospel and the Acts of the Apostles.  

“Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus.”

As the Restored Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, their message is that after establishing His church, God allowed it to fall into complete apostasy for many centuries.

Then you would have to ignore another statement Jesus made found in Luke 16:16-17 “The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.  And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one title of the law to fail.”   

I want you to read how much God values his word.  Psalm 138:2

“I have reverenced my word, even above my name.”

Do you think God would allow His Word to be changed or corrupted for 1500 years until a fourteen-year-old boy came along who would rest

Latter-day Saint missionaries are trained to challenge people to read the Book of Mormon and then to ask God in prayer if, it is true. Moroni 10:4-5 “And when ye shall receive these things [the Book of Mormon], I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. And by the power of the Holy Ghost, ye may know the truth of all things.”
Another scripture used is from:

“But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.”

I see some problems with those challenges.

First, of all there is no provision made in case the Book of Mormon is false.
What if I don’t get a supernatural witness of some kind?
Latter-day Saints believe it would probably be because you didn’t ask with a “sincere heart” or “real intent”, or you didn’t have “faith in Christ”?
In other words, there is something wrong with me, not the Book of Mormon? I was not being sincere with God?

LDS believers will argue that if you DO get a burning in the bosom or a special feeling when reading the Book of Mormon, that this feeling would confirm that the Book of Mormon is true?

Not necessarily. It could be that we were being influenced by deceitful spirits or demons. Paul warns of this deception in 2 Thessalonians 2:9. “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.”

1 John 4:1
“Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: Because many false prophets are gone out into the world.”
Is it wrong to trust in our heart that God is speaking to us.
God warns us about trusting our hearts. Deuteronomy 11:16
“Take head to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them.”
Jeremiah 17:9
“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”
You see there are dangers when we rely on our hearts too much. Proverbs 14:12 “There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.”
Our feelings and emotions that stem from our hearts can be very misleading – even though it seems that they are right.
So, how can we know for certain about anything then, if we can’t trust our, hearts?
When it comes to truth, The Bible gives us a great example of what one is to do when confronted with the possibility of whether a message is from God or not. In Acts 17:10-11 Paul taught the people of Berea in their synagogue.
But rather than rely on

I have friends who will ask – Are Mormons, Christians?  They think ANYONE who believes in Christ is a Christian.
 Latter-Day Saints say they believe in Christ because it is his name is in the title of their church – The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

If Mormons are Christians, then does that make Christians Mormons?

No, not exactly.

If you believe in Christ, then I have, to ask you – which Christ?

Let’s read 2 Corinthians 11:3-4, where Paul warns about this very thing.

“But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty,  so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.  For if he that cometh preacheth ANOTHER JESUS whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.”

We are warned about deceivers who would come preaching “another Jesus”. 

Latter-Day Saints believe in a Jesus who came to earth 2000 years ago, lived a perfect life, suffered and died for us and then was resurrected. 

But we need to keep in mind what it says in James 2:19 “Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.”  So even demons believe!
Jesus said it himself in Matthew 7:22-23 “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name…? And in thy name done many wonderful works?  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me…” 

You see,many people who think they know the Lord and serve who they thought was Jesus Christ, don’t have the correct understanding of who God really is. 

Latter-daySaints will argue that they believe in the same Jesus Christ as Christians do. 
Their own church leaders have recognized there is a difference.

LDS Seventy, Bernard P. Brockbank, said “It is true that Christians worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshipped by the Mormons or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”  The Living Christ (Bernard P. Brockbank, 1977 Annual General Conference, Ensign

And, in the June 20, 1998 “LDS Church News” we read: “In the bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the church who say Latter-day Saints do not believe in the traditional Christ.  ‘No, I don’t,the traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of who I speak.  For the Christ of who I speak has been revealed in this dispensation of the fulness of times.’”

A few years later,President Hinckley again stated: “As a Church we have critics, many of them.  They say we do not believe in the traditional Christ of Christianity.  There is some substance to what they say…” (Ensign, May 2002, p.90)

So, you see!  Even the LDS leaders admit that the Mormon Jesus is a different Jesus than the Jesus of traditional Christianity. 

But Latter-day Saints believe that Mormonism has more to add to the knowledge of who Jesus is. 

There are many differences that we could discuss concerning the Jesus Mormons worship,and the Jesus Christians worship. 

Jesus said in John 8:24 “I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”

All I can say is – If the ONLY way to the Father is through His Son as taught in John 14:6, then anyone not believing in the biblical Jesus is in serious trouble.