In this episode, Nick speaks with Ed Purmalis about his journey in and through sales and how the humbling moments can truly set us on a beautiful path if we allow them to.

About Ed Purmalis

Ed is a Podcast Advisor for Salescast.co and works with entrepreneurs and businesses all over the world to start and optimize their Podcast.  Here’s what he has to say about himself…

“Life has taught me that it’s sometimes better to fold and wait for your next hand. I gave up my young aspirations of going into finance to pursue something with an immediate yield.

I fell into sales, and it became my road to dignity. One that I wouldn’t change for anything! Going from a dependant to a provider at a young age was tough, but I was blessed to have my first real opportunity be the right one, at least for the time being.

When 2020 hit, and I had to make a switch, it became less important what I was doing and more importantly, who I was doing it with. My mindset changed.

I am truly all about learning new things and meeting awesome people. I’m blessed to have the opportunity to do that on a daily basis. (While being 5000 miles away from some of them!!) My number one goal is to help drive ethical sales and humanize every business interaction we have.”

Resources:

Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have? Send Nick an email or schedule a time to discuss your podcast today!

[email protected]

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Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

00:00:08:10 – 00:00:31:06

Nick McGowan

Hello and welcome to The Mindset and Self-mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. And on this show, my guests and I unpack the stories that shape us and the lives we lead on our path to self-mastery. Today on the show, we have Ed Purmalis. Ed is in sales and works for a great company called Sales. Cars Help companies and entrepreneurs set up, manage and monetize their podcasts.

00:00:31:18 – 00:00:56:01

Nick McGowan

It’s an awesome group. I work with them and think you should do check out sales. Casco. For more info. So Ed was one of the first guys I connected with when I joined their community and through conversation, I realized there was a lot more than just some dude chat with me through Slack. Ed and I had a couple of conversations and I invited him on the podcast because he has an interesting perspective of sales while working for US based company and living in Europe.

00:00:56:18 – 00:01:12:22

Nick McGowan

So listen in as we break down how he manages his mindset and what stories have shaped him on his path towards self-mastery. Not to mention how he tames his ego monster. So let’s not wait any longer. Let the games begin.

00:01:16:06 – 00:01:19:18

Nick McGowan

Ed, what’s up, man? I’m so excited you’re on the show. How are you doing today?

00:01:20:12 – 00:01:28:19

Ed Purmalis

Good, good. It’s been one of those crazy days, you know? Got my ass handed to me. Cold calling today. But, you know, that’s just life.

00:01:29:03 – 00:01:39:13

Nick McGowan

Oh, man. I think we should probably just jump right into that. Almost. But give us a little bit of context here. So tell us one thing that you do for a living and something that most people don’t know about you.

00:01:40:06 – 00:02:12:16

Ed Purmalis

Okay. So I work at Sales Cast where we produce, manage, monetize people’s business related podcasts and also get people booked on shows. So anything to do with podcasting, you name it, we do it. And I recently picked up the modern musical art of deejaying. I was a big club goer in my early days, and I’m a fan of different types of electronic music.

00:02:12:16 – 00:02:30:15

Ed Purmalis

And one of the biggest things that you learn and what you want to do as a DJ, it’s not about fame, it’s not about clout. It’s not about anything because there’s a million people doing what you’re doing. There’s nothing proprietary about it. You’re not creating something new. But what it is, is a platform to share with people like, Hey, this makes me feel good.

00:02:30:15 – 00:02:36:09

Ed Purmalis

This is going to make you feel good, listen to it. But you’re doing it on a grander stage. So it’s been a lot of fun.

00:02:36:28 – 00:02:54:06

Nick McGowan

Man, I get that I’m a musician, so I totally understand that feeling and especially being able to share that back or, you know, just kind of be out in your own space in the flow state of that. So how did you get into deejaying? Was it through podcasts or was it something you politically different? Are you a musician?

00:02:54:10 – 00:02:54:13

Nick McGowan

Like.

00:02:55:01 – 00:03:10:28

Ed Purmalis

I’ll tell you this, I was at an event quite a while back and one of my best friends was playing there. And, you know, if you know the deejay, you get to, you know, walk around the booth and you get kind of like VIP access and all that. And I was like, you’re like, Matt put on this one song.

00:03:10:28 – 00:03:30:16

Ed Purmalis

It’s good. It’s going to explode, I’m telling you. He’s like, Nah, man, when you learn how to use this, that’s when you get to put on your song in front of a crowd. And I was like, Fuck, okay, you got me. So some months later, I just took the plunge, bought a starter piece of equipment that’s sitting right behind me, and just started from there.

00:03:31:03 – 00:03:40:01

Nick McGowan

That’s good stuff, man. So what about sales cast? Tell us a bit like how how did you get to sales gas and working in podcasting? And what does that look like? What’s your role there?

00:03:40:23 – 00:04:07:15

Ed Purmalis

Oh, wow. So I’ll I’ll start this off with the fact that I’ve been an avid podcast listener since, like the age of 11 or 12. So I understand the medium very well. There’s a four hour show that I listen to, like every single week. So ever since then and it was a it was a type of platform, immediate I really liked because it definitely had the the aspects of content creation that I’ve always admired in people.

00:04:07:15 – 00:04:29:26

Ed Purmalis

But it doesn’t require you to do videography, doesn’t require you to do this and that. It just requires you to have conversations. And that’s something that I’ve always been kind of something I’ve been fairly decent at. So that was the dream, right? And as many people in 2020, I lost my job. And the problem with my job was that it was a sales job, but it was one that didn’t bring a lot of transferable skills.

00:04:30:04 – 00:04:57:17

Ed Purmalis

It was very industry specific. It was crazy, it was B2C, it was highly transactional, and it was very, very focused on that particular industry. So I was shit out of luck. I had just gone from a point of having of, you know, making bank at that age what I considered to be making bank to being jobless and not even getting other sales positions that would literally cut my paycheck by five times.

00:04:58:04 – 00:05:19:12

Ed Purmalis

Like there was nothing out there for me. So and that was the local market. For those who don’t know, I am actually in Europe, I’m in Riga, Latvia. So, you know, results may vary. This is in the States. We have a bunch of different sales ecosystem around here. Not a lot of companies that are working odd hours to serve American clients, which is what I was used to doing.

00:05:20:06 – 00:05:37:21

Ed Purmalis

So it was a difficult spot, right? So I decided, hey, if I can find a job here, I’m just going to kind of make my own job, right? I’m just going to find a company that’s not here, but that’s going to be able to work with me remotely. And that’s ultimately going to be not even thinking about recruiting here.

00:05:38:01 – 00:05:55:04

Ed Purmalis

So I put my skills to the test, create a LinkedIn account, started networking, started going through the motions, join Slack communities that everything needed to network in a time when everybody was stuck home. And that’s how I met Colin Mitchell, the CEO of Sales Guest.

00:05:56:12 – 00:06:20:00

Nick McGowan

And awesome story. So now that sales cast, I know they do all things podcast and this isn’t a commercial for sales cast but at the same time you’re welcome, fellas. So yeah, I know you guys do a ton of stuff there. I work with you guys as well. So tell us a little bit of like what the day to day looks like because this show is about your mindset and how you right now, it’s probably what, midnight where you’re at right now.

00:06:20:13 – 00:06:50:09

Ed Purmalis

Yes. All right. The day to day, honestly, couldn’t be any better. And a big part of that is the fact that our management is probably the best management I’ve ever seen. And this is coming from somebody who’s worked in large scale thousand person sales teams, somebody who’s worked in boutique recruitment agencies, and someone who’s of who’s a social butterfly and gets to hear everybody else’s shitty work stories and how miserable they are.

00:06:51:03 – 00:07:09:09

Ed Purmalis

For me, I live the night schedule. I’ve been like that like ever since I finished high school. I was like, I just I just don’t wake up before noon. It just doesn’t happen. So all of that is pretty well covered. The day to day is I wake up, get to my computer and just start going through the motions.

00:07:09:28 – 00:07:39:27

Ed Purmalis

I don’t have a set schedule. I don’t have a set anything. It’s just a full supportive system of me having access to the people that I need to have access to, all the mentorship, guiding and everything else and help while simultaneously getting through a priority list of things that I’m doing, which which would involve prospecting, client meetings, content creation, podcasting, LinkedIn, everything that it has to do around the social B2B ecosystem.

00:07:40:21 – 00:08:03:04

Nick McGowan

So let’s take a little bit of a step back. So now here you are at podcast mania with sales guest doing all the things, podcasts, where did you come from or what was your starting point to be able to be where you’re at today? And are there any major points that really stand out where you’re like, you know, those are points that changed me throughout life, right?

00:08:03:04 – 00:08:09:04

Ed Purmalis

So wait, so are where we’re doing career talk right now, are we doing just life talk in general.

00:08:09:28 – 00:08:39:23

Nick McGowan

At this point? Oh, I’d say it’s really it’s really all encompassing because your life and your career, even to the point where you had said you wake up and you get to the computer, like, what? What does that look like when you actually jump right in? Because I know there are certain people and I think it was even Mark Mark Cuban at one point had said, like, I get up and just get right into my day and do my things and I’m not sure how his mindset is throughout the day if he gets super stressed or if he’s got systems in place to be able to do that.

00:08:40:04 – 00:08:46:15

Nick McGowan

But just trying to take a little bit of a step back to what did childhood look like to be able to kind of set you up to where you’re at today?

00:08:47:16 – 00:09:16:15

Ed Purmalis

Yeah. So interesting fact. This is going to be my underdog story. I was not a typical high performing sales individual from birth. You know, companies nowadays don’t really look so much at your college degree when you’re going to sales roles. They look more on stuff like if you were an athlete or if you’re like super hyper social and all this other jazz, which is like the stereotypical, Oh, this is going to make a good salesperson talk.

00:09:17:03 – 00:09:48:16

Ed Purmalis

I was the most socially crippled, awkward child you could ever imagine. I was the nerdiest guy in class. I spent my whole childhood in front of a computer, which also you know, bada bing, but a boom, right? Actually a good improvement there because I was very comfortable sitting with a headset and talking with people. No anxiety there, but but yeah, I did not grow up to be a dude to be molded into a salesperson by any means.

00:09:48:25 – 00:10:01:00

Ed Purmalis

If anybody would have guessed through my childhood, they think I’d rather be, I don’t know, making atomic bombs in my basement or or 80 to 1 of those do.

00:10:01:00 – 00:10:06:07

Nick McGowan

So if you’ve, like, ran into somebody from high school or even years ago and told them that you’re in sales, they’d be shocked.

00:10:07:18 – 00:10:23:22

Ed Purmalis

High school? No, high school was already more of a more of a renaissance, a social renaissance for me. But people from middle school and people from elementary school and just just people who knew me as a child would be like, what the fuck happened here?

00:10:24:25 – 00:10:44:22

Nick McGowan

I went, So I know you’ve said that you’ve been working with American companies for quite some time. It sounds like that was kind of a preference, like when you were deciding on what I want to do next, you got to pick the right people that you want to be able to work with. I work with some people that are part of my teams that are in other countries as well.

00:10:44:22 – 00:11:03:14

Nick McGowan

And I often have wondered like, what is it like for them to be able to work with us because we get in our certain rhythms of things. What does that look like throughout the day? Being able to manage that, it’s basically midnight and being able to work through different kind of culture ist things that may be a bit different than what you were used to.

00:11:04:12 – 00:11:22:22

Ed Purmalis

My story is, in that sense, is a bit more unique. There’s a lot of outsourcing happening simply because it’s a very good win win situation for a lot of people in a lot of different continents. They get paid more versus, you know, companies have to pay less to get the same level of talent. So there’s a whole integration process there that often does or does not work out.

00:11:23:08 – 00:11:52:18

Ed Purmalis

Me I was raised on Web 1.0 Internet, so Internet forums, video games, raised on Cartoon Network, raised on, you know, American TV, everything. All the culture that I learned as a child who wasn’t very social was American culture. It was the way, you know, you conversate, the way you present yourself, everything about that. I had learned from a very young age, from American media.

00:11:52:26 – 00:12:00:09

Ed Purmalis

So that was definitely a big a big advantage point in me honing my career in that way.

00:12:01:00 – 00:12:07:24

Nick McGowan

To say that you are you were raised on Cartoon Network is awesome, just speaks directly to my heart. But that.

00:12:07:24 – 00:12:08:20

Ed Purmalis

Stuff I.

00:12:08:20 – 00:12:26:12

Nick McGowan

Often ask some people, I’m like, so did you watch around and Stimpy as a kid? And from that I can kind of tell like how life was for them as a child. Like, Yeah, all right, cool. I watched it as well. That’s interesting to hear that you grew up on that stuff, too, and that, you know, it’s not as much of a kind of a culture shock.

00:12:26:12 – 00:12:42:26

Nick McGowan

I mean, all the conversations that we’ve had just been a handful of them. But even with yourself, with the rest of the sales cast crew, it’s been awesome. I mean, they all kind of seem to be sort of similar in a sense. But let’s take a bit of a step back. Let’s go back to your childhood and kind of how you got here.

00:12:43:08 – 00:12:56:22

Nick McGowan

You’d mentioned in the conversation we had before that there was kind of a big moment that really kind of changed things in life. You want to kind of get into that big moment that happened when you were younger.

00:12:56:22 – 00:13:29:01

Ed Purmalis

Yeah, sure. And just to backtrack to my self claim of being a socially awkward and just flat out weird child, it wasn’t I wasn’t born that way, really. Around the age of six, I lost my father a heart attack at 38 free. Gnarly shit if you ask me. And and during that time period of the ages of six to around ten, we lost about six other close family members that were all kind of my replacement dad in a sense, you know.

00:13:30:03 – 00:13:59:08

Ed Purmalis

So there was a lot of like death and despair and depression around around my family. And just it was just basically me and my mom who are still left to this day. So, yeah, I grew up very, very damaged. And the only thing that we did have and what’s always been kind of an internal motivator for me to succeed in sales was that money was never an issue until maybe I was like 17 or 18.

00:13:59:16 – 00:14:12:03

Ed Purmalis

So in that sense, I was kind of I grew up in a, you know, fairly wealthy environment, but, you know, that also came to an end. And that’s, you know, that’s a story for later in the show.

00:14:12:03 – 00:14:31:10

Nick McGowan

I guess that might be part two of what we’re talking about. I mean, that’s a lot, man. I, I couldn’t imagine not having my dad now and mans in his early sixties at this point. There were a handful of years that we didn’t really talk, but that was just a couple of years, so I couldn’t imagine losing him at such a young age.

00:14:31:10 – 00:14:57:12

Nick McGowan

I would imagine, though, that does something to somebody, especially a little boy at that point, trying to grow up to be what is potentially a man without having that that that person there to be able to help. So what did that look like and how do you think you actually not only found that yourself, but do you think you had the environment growing up that was good to be able to help you become the man that you are today?

00:14:58:07 – 00:15:31:22

Ed Purmalis

No, really, I’d say that I was mostly self raised. My mom was keeping down the fort, making sure that everything is all right. So I again grew up on cartoons and the Internet until a until pretty much high school. One of the biggest things and you know since this is the mindset and self-mastery show one big reoccurring theme in my life has always been to try to hone out the toxic behaviors in myself and figure out where they’re coming from and figure out how to fix them.

00:15:32:03 – 00:15:59:08

Ed Purmalis

And one of the biggest realizations that I’ve come to, given all the death that I had in my family at a very young age, is that I, especially when I entered the age of starting to have romantic relationships, I would have very, very superficial romantic relationships. That’s how I would build them. And that was simply because, you know, in other people’s heads, when they see people and especially people that they love, they associate somebody who’s going to be around them forever.

00:15:59:15 – 00:16:22:13

Ed Purmalis

When I see someone that I love, I’m used to life taking them away from me. So I would build very superficial, very short term relationships that would be insanely toxic. And I would just be, you know, I would live with the kind of notion of, you know, fuck it, everybody dies. What does it matter if I hurt somebody or if I step on somebody’s toes or, you know, if I just behave ruthlessly toxic?

00:16:22:13 – 00:16:34:15

Ed Purmalis

And that was a theme in my life until maybe a year ago. And it was something that I took time in the pandemic to really figure out and to put an end to.

00:16:35:05 – 00:16:52:23

Nick McGowan

Yeah, there’s a lot of power and just being aware of it to be able to say that this is what this thing is. I assume in most cases, because I know in mine it wasn’t a conscious decision to look at things that way, but you just make these irrationalities and these thoughts of like, well, you know, fuck it.

00:16:52:24 – 00:17:03:00

Nick McGowan

Like you said, they’re all going to die anyway, so why? And then that just seeps in. Sometimes it’s really difficult to get that back out. So what got you out of that?

00:17:03:27 – 00:17:23:26

Ed Purmalis

I kind of moved out. When I moved out of high school and into my first job, I was kind of thrown into the big boy life in a sense, at the age of 19, started earning good money, started, you know, living all the crazy shit that a 19, 20, 21 year old would do when they’re high earning and they have anxiety and they need to prove themselves to the world.

00:17:23:26 – 00:17:45:20

Ed Purmalis

And, you know, they’ve suddenly become this social butterfly and now they need to do all this crazy shit work. What the mentality there is that, you know, you’re stuck at 19 like that 19 year old. If you’re if you’re grinding 24, seven in a sales job and spending your weekends in nightclubs, parties, and I don’t know, hooking up with random people, you’re stuck.

00:17:45:27 – 00:18:11:21

Ed Purmalis

You’re stuck there. There is no emotional growth or maturity that happens during that time frame because you’re just living in a circle. You’re just living. You think that you have life figured out and there’s no reason for you to make any adjustments or changes. You’re you’re freaking perfect. You’re doing great, right? And having to again, lose everything, lose my job, lose my you know, it was my lose everything that I had put as my core values at the time.

00:18:11:21 – 00:18:26:13

Ed Purmalis

The things that took that little insecure child and made him big made him important. All of those things were suddenly gone again. Only this time I was not ready to rely on that being my whole personality.

00:18:27:09 – 00:18:45:09

Nick McGowan

Bringing up core values. That’s that’s huge. I think the principle centered life of people, if there’s no principles, then you’re just meandering around. And it sounds like your principle centered as well. What did that look like for you to be able to transform that? Was that something where you actually sat down and you’re like, what is it that matters?

00:18:45:09 – 00:18:53:17

Nick McGowan

What at the core actually matters to me? Or Did you find it kind of bubbling up where you’re like, Oh, I realize that this thing actually matters? And and setting that aside.

00:18:55:11 – 00:19:18:20

Ed Purmalis

I’d say, more, more, more of the first it was, it was seeing what changes in my life when I don’t have all these things that I had set as my sort of value proposition for my personality, which people react in, which is what is really important, who are the ones who stick around? Who are the ones who leave, what kind of attitude change has happened, etc.?

00:19:18:20 – 00:19:43:11

Ed Purmalis

When I had time to analyze what’s going around me and to for the first time feel support without having to justify it in my mind, without having to think to myself, Oh, they’re just, you know, doing it because I’m freaking awesome and king of everything, seeing that kind of support. And it made me really think about myself and my own behaviors.

00:19:43:17 – 00:20:04:09

Ed Purmalis

And all the times I had not been that person, all the times I had been, you know, toxic. Just, just, just, just I’ll be brutally honest, just being toxic. It was it was a it was a crazy time. And coming to those realizations and seeing those situations through, dude, I’ve written apology letters. I’ve contacted people that I hadn’t talked to in years.

00:20:04:16 – 00:20:14:20

Ed Purmalis

I went through a whole I went through a whole crusade of trying to make things right and deciding to be a better person from there.

00:20:15:19 – 00:20:23:21

Nick McGowan

Do you think you were trying to make things right for yourself or to just have the face of it that you did it, that you made things right?

00:20:24:18 – 00:20:54:23

Ed Purmalis

You know, I’ve been having this debate in my head plenty, but I’ll tell you what, it wasn’t a it wasn’t a relieving or even a process that I enjoyed at that point in time. I just knew it was something that had to be done. It took me, you know, I had to put my pride aside, which, listen, if you take somebody who’s super insecure and then they achieve things in life, what happens is that they can often go way in the other spectrum.

00:20:54:23 – 00:21:21:20

Ed Purmalis

And that’s what had happened to me. I had went from somebody who was super insecure to an ego monster, and you take an ego man search trip over everything that guards him and then he has to go and apologize to people. It’s not a process that you enjoy at first, but it’s something that afterwards makes you think, you know, I know I didn’t write my wrongs in any way, shape or form, but I do realize that, you know, I at this point, knowing what’s done is done.

00:21:21:20 – 00:21:27:29

Ed Purmalis

I’ve done the best possible future move that I could have ever made for those people and for myself.

00:21:28:09 – 00:21:50:17

Nick McGowan

Yeah, makes sense. And thank you for naming the episode. I think we we have to go with ego monster or something of the like at this point. Well done. I’m sure the ego monster. So I think jumping from the opposite side of the ego monster is somebody who’s maybe completely docile, just allows people to walk all over them.

00:21:50:25 – 00:21:52:15

Nick McGowan

How are you finding balance right now?

00:21:53:07 – 00:22:25:13

Ed Purmalis

Yeah, you that’s I’m very happy that you brought that up because there were definitely points after I dropped the whole lot, after I dropped the narcissism thing and started becoming a better person where, you know, some people didn’t get with the times and they and you know, there was that that imbalance of people saying to step out of my head a little bit and even and even during that time, I was I was in a relationship during the time of my fall or whatever you want to call it.

00:22:25:23 – 00:22:48:20

Ed Purmalis

And even there it was the exact same thing, like that person was trying to step on me and all of a sudden I realized that the whole thing is toxic. And I ended it because, you know, it was, you know, I realized it was toxic because all of a sudden I went from, you know, from what I thought at the time was 100 down all the way to a zero and was trying to reinvent myself.

00:22:49:00 – 00:23:09:12

Ed Purmalis

And even the person that I was with was starting to was starting to, I guess not appreciate this new personality of mine because, you know, I mean, people fall in love with people for different reasons. And the person that she was in love with was that, you know, Ego Monster was that was that guy. And that was fine with me.

00:23:09:12 – 00:23:27:28

Ed Purmalis

I decided to end it right there in there because I don’t expect anybody to put up with you if your personality takes a 180 over the sense of six, seven months. Right. Like that. That’s the reason why a lot of divorces happen, in my opinion, is because people change so much during that time that you no longer recognize the person that you’re with.

00:23:28:07 – 00:23:36:19

Ed Purmalis

And in this case, I was that person who was no longer recognizable. So I had to make my adjustments, make my changes and go go back to the drawing board.

00:23:37:29 – 00:23:58:20

Nick McGowan

It’s a constant evolution, man. So even with that, the relationship side of things, there are definitely people that have those problems. I think from a relationship perspective, you’ve got to be able to continue to grow on your own. So being able to grow on your own and allowing others to be able to grow as well, I think we’re there to do life with people.

00:23:59:00 – 00:24:21:08

Nick McGowan

We had an intimate relationship or even friendships. You know, you’ve got to love and support those people. Not exactly similarly, but in certain ways to be able to be there for them and kind of encourage and all that. So it sounded like you were doing more of that for yourself. And if that person was not along the same lines or growing in the same way, that’s totally all right.

00:24:21:09 – 00:24:37:24

Nick McGowan

Not only does that happen, but that’s a better choice for you to know. Like, that’s not what I want to be a part of anymore. So it’s huge to be able to do that. It’s interesting how people go through seasons where it’s like you said, you realize a cycle, you know, like we’ve been doing the same shit forever and ever.

00:24:38:01 – 00:24:54:28

Nick McGowan

And then that fall, that splat moment that happens and you go, Well, fuck, what do I want to do now? What actually needs to happen? Some people get stuck there and they just live there. So the balance within yourself now and not being the ego monster, not letting people walk all over you, how do you do that throughout each day?

00:24:54:28 – 00:24:59:20

Nick McGowan

Like what are the things that you do to be able to keep yourself on that straight, narrow in a sense.

00:25:00:00 – 00:25:26:26

Ed Purmalis

I think, you know, if if if we’re going to put it on a scale you never want to be you never want to be a zero and you never want to be a ten. You never want to be on either side of the spectrum. And both those things. Well, you have to understand it. You know, life and situations and people in general are going to have peaks and valleys and it is okay for you to scale to one side or the other on occasion due to reasons of, you know, due to any reason whatsoever.

00:25:27:08 – 00:25:48:01

Ed Purmalis

But it’s all about figuring out, you know, at which point do you need to stop and at which point do you need to move between one or the other? Because you’re never going to be a straight arrow. You’re never going to be the same guy or the same girl every single day. That’s just not how it works. There’s too many variables to life to be consistent 100% of the time.

00:25:48:22 – 00:26:13:16

Ed Purmalis

So for me, I guess the biggest lesson was to go through being both aspects and having to almost do it twice. Because, you know, when I was a kid, I was a complete doormat. When I became a young adult, I was exactly the opposite. So I had I had a full range of both of these things happening in my life for extended periods of time where I could identify, okay, this is, let’s just say, fun behavior.

00:26:13:16 – 00:26:42:09

Ed Purmalis

There’s this toxic behavior. What’s the difference? The difference is toxic behavior. People get hurt in fun behavior. Everybody’s having fun. And it’s I’d say that my biggest my biggest anti toxicity cure for myself has been to finally be honest with people about my role, my intentions and everything else, because that’s the only way you can keep it in check.

00:26:42:09 – 00:27:06:00

Ed Purmalis

It’s by being honest with yourself and by being honest with others because, you know, neither being a doormat nor being an ego monster is anybody’s natural state. You’re being dishonest and you’re putting on a show and there’s a reason why you’re doing it. So look in the mirror and figure out why that is, what triggers it, and how to find balance between either or man.

00:27:06:00 – 00:27:16:11

Nick McGowan

That’s a lesson for everybody. But specifically, salespeople think about the amount of salespeople that turn into somebody else, like they pick up the phone and like, Hello.

00:27:16:11 – 00:27:17:18

Ed Purmalis

Thank you for calling, blah, blah.

00:27:17:18 – 00:27:40:23

Nick McGowan

Blah. You’re like, Who the fuck is that guy? That makes no sense. And they’re just somebody different. You got to be you, you got to be authentic and you got to know it and feel in your own skin and be able to actually say, like, this doesn’t line up. And here’s why. I think it’s setting expectations, which goes back to the relationship and the relationship with yourself and being able to set those expectations or these are the things that I do, these are the things I don’t do.

00:27:41:02 – 00:27:53:23

Nick McGowan

Just like in sales, being able to. These are the things I do and these are the things I don’t do. You’d mentioned that you kind of got your ass handed to you with a cold call. You want to jump into that? Why do you think you got your ass handed to you? Like what happened?

00:27:54:05 – 00:28:12:16

Ed Purmalis

If cold calling isn’t a humbling process, then you’re not doing enough of it. And if you’re ever blocking out time and actually doing it, you’re going to come to a realization that a lot of people won’t talk to you. A lot of people won’t need what your what you’re providing. And some people are just going to have a shitty day and they’re going to let it out on you.

00:28:13:00 – 00:28:38:04

Ed Purmalis

But that’s another part of, you know, cold calling is one of those things that I think helps people keep their ego in check. But also, you know, I think anybody who’s going into the workforce should at least cold call for a couple of months and see what it’s like because it’s going to be a humbling experience, but it’s also going to be something that’s going to show you your ability to find the right people and to form connections out of nowhere.

00:28:38:04 – 00:28:47:18

Ed Purmalis

And that is an insane life skill to have insane. If you can do that, you can do anything, in my opinion.

00:28:47:18 – 00:29:13:03

Nick McGowan

So if you think you go from the cold call, you get into the meeting. Even if those people that actually set the meeting realize that there are people that can set a meeting but they can’t handle the meeting. They can’t close a meeting at that point. That’s a whole different animal and being able to manage again its later and I keep thinking like God if I was trying to make cold calls at midnight, if somebody is answering that call midnight, they’d be pissed right off the bat.

00:29:13:03 – 00:29:27:09

Nick McGowan

Like what? But going through and talking to these people, when you go through and work with them and have somebody that’s interested, what’s the process that you kind of take them through? Because what I’m assuming you’re all podcast host, right?

00:29:28:04 – 00:30:06:16

Ed Purmalis

No, not always. I mean, it’s potential podcast host, B2B brands that might be looking into podcasting. There’s a couple of different we’re very industry agnostic and we don’t have a clearly defined ICP at this point. It’s just people who want to do something with podcasts, really the process is fairly simple. You talk through it with people and instead of trying to sell them something, you talk through a potential business case on how that could or could not help them and and from there, it’s 99% of the time either both of you are going to agree that it’s a good idea or both of you are not going to agree that it’s a good idea.

00:30:06:25 – 00:30:31:04

Ed Purmalis

It just really depends on how thorough you are with your discovery process. And if you’re actually willing to be honest with people from the get go, taking yourself out of the equation and instead of thinking of it as selling something to someone, you’re thinking about it as a collaborative effort to figure out if this is something that they might need and if you’re the best equipped person to help them with that.

00:30:31:17 – 00:30:55:03

Ed Purmalis

I feel like that type of sales ideology and that type of sales process is, first of all, the the place where the sales environment is moving. And I’m super happy for it. That’s that that’s what feels natural and right to me. That’s how I was born and raised, you know, and I think that’s pretty much it. I mean, that pretty much says it all.

00:30:55:21 – 00:31:17:23

Nick McGowan

Yeah. And I agree that it’s everything’s headed toward more authenticity in conversations and being able to figure out how do we have a win win. You know, honestly, the amount of times I even said that today within partnership calls and like calls and prospects calls today, just being able to figure out the win win, how do we solve the problems here and actually help the win win?

00:31:17:23 – 00:31:35:01

Nick McGowan

And I think that starts with us, man. You know, being able to have our shit together and figure out because think about it, anybody who’s listening to this, that’s a salesperson that has ever made a cold call the day after drinking way too much. You know, your head’s not in it. You’re just not all there. And you’re, like, fighting through the fog.

00:31:35:01 – 00:31:54:01

Nick McGowan

Even so, when a lot of people actually fight through a dense fog just every single day. So how do you manage your mindset throughout the day? Cold calls, meetings, just all the things that go along with it. But how do you keep yourself and a motivated and what are the tips and tricks you’d give other people too that are going through the same stuff?

00:31:54:18 – 00:32:12:25

Ed Purmalis

This is going to be super fucking cheesy, but it’s something that I realize is the truth. It’s going to be a much easier process as long as you truly believe that you guys are doing something great and you truly believe in the product. And there’s a level of passion that goes with what you are providing and what you’re selling and what you’re preaching.

00:32:13:07 – 00:32:35:27

Ed Purmalis

If you are somebody who is selling fishing rods but fucking hates boats, you’re not. Yeah. You’re not in the right position. Yeah. Get out. Exactly. For me it’s. And this is actually a struggle area for me. I’m not I’m not even going to go here and say that I’m the most productive or most always motivated person in the world.

00:32:36:08 – 00:33:02:21

Ed Purmalis

My strongest motivator in those moments when you don’t feel like doing things is seeing the work and the love that’s been put into me and the company itself by our C-suite, by our co-founders. Seeing their level of work and dedication and the level of help and support I get is the one thing that that that has taken me to the next level there.

00:33:02:21 – 00:33:26:13

Ed Purmalis

And that’s not something that you can just figure out that you have at this point. But it is definitely something that anybody should look into if they don’t feel like that’s what they’re receiving now. You know, people like to say that, you know, salespeople are the coin slot operated, you know, and that to an extent is true. I am I’ve I’ve I’ve I’ve lived a rich life and I lived a poor life.

00:33:26:13 – 00:33:52:21

Ed Purmalis

And, you know, I choose a rich life any day of the week. Right. It’s you know, there is a level of truth to that. But then again, I wouldn’t go and do it in finance. I wouldn’t go and do it in pretty much any other area because it does not involve the one thing that I guess I’ve always been yearning from childhood, which is to have legitimate, sincere human connections.

00:33:53:12 – 00:34:02:17

Ed Purmalis

So I guess I guess that’s what ties back to my mental state and maybe gives a better background of what I’m thinking about the whole ordeal.

00:34:03:00 – 00:34:31:04

Nick McGowan

I love how you almost seemed really grateful, like if we had to nail down to one word, it almost sounds like it just grateful and appreciative and respectful even of like thank you to help. I think everything rises and falls with leadership. So think about it. If people at the top of whatever company, if you own your own company and you’re at the top or you work for a company and they’re giant or tiny or whatever, the people at the top are shitty people.

00:34:31:17 – 00:34:53:20

Nick McGowan

Typically the people they hire and typically the people that stay around, they have some shitty isms to them and we don’t want to have that, you know. So the fact that you guys actually have people that care and dig in, they’re literally in the trenches working through this stuff. That’s huge. And that that’s a huge testament to everybody else that’s working in the business as well.

00:34:53:28 – 00:35:08:29

Nick McGowan

I think a lot of people can kind of take from that where it seems like that’s a core principle to the people you work with. And I love that about different leaders that I come across where you can just tell like I know that outside of work you’re probably a great dad, or at least you try, you know, like you try to do it.

00:35:09:06 – 00:35:32:16

Nick McGowan

You’re probably a really good friend, or at least you really friggin try, you know what I mean? So I enjoy when people actually take it to those extents and that you can see that and kind of rock and roll with it. It gives you more power to be able to actually do what you do. Do you think that that’s something the people can kind of promote through their own companies that they work in?

00:35:32:16 – 00:35:34:25

Nick McGowan

Or is it just a mental state that they got to get to?

00:35:35:20 – 00:36:01:13

Ed Purmalis

Oh, I love this topic, Nick. Let’s go see. I’ve read and talked and lived through this topic in my life to give you a bit of a background of, you know, the whole environment that nurtured this, you know, crazy ego, monster personality that I used to have is my first real workplace where I was at for what like for four and a half years.

00:36:01:23 – 00:36:28:16

Ed Purmalis

Basically, the place that where I grew up as a young adult was exactly what you’re describing. The people were the people where only, you know, coin operated. The management was only cared about you if you were putting out results. There was micromanagement, there was it it was not a nurturing environment by any means, but at least it was a sales environment.

00:36:28:19 – 00:36:49:16

Ed Purmalis

Everybody kind of knew what they were getting themselves into in the sense that, you know, hey, you know, you can you can do what you want. As long as my paycheck comes in time and it has this many zeros, I’m good with it. So I’ve seen how that works and I’ve seen how detrimental it is to people’s mental health, including mine, and what kind of person you come out working in that type of environment.

00:36:49:16 – 00:37:23:28

Ed Purmalis

Now, the way that type of environment gets fostered from the beginning is really a generational issue, and it’s been that way. That’s been the it’s been the status quo for the better part of the last two centuries. Yeah, that, you know, the corporate environment works as a chain of screaming structure where the CEO is yelling at the VP, the VP is yelling at the manager, the manager is yelling at their team because, you know, productivity arises from fear, right?

00:37:23:28 – 00:37:41:05

Ed Purmalis

I mean, that’s at least what what was thought of as to be fact for the longest in the world. So really, it’s it’s a problem of environment. Listen, you put a good man between pigs and he’s going to be playing in the mud soon enough. It’s just a fact. And that’s how corporate structures have been raised for forever.

00:37:41:05 – 00:37:59:23

Ed Purmalis

And all of these all of these old school companies had this issue from the get go. Now, when startups started appearing like tech startups, you know, that’s that’s when they started, you know, let’s take a little bit more care of our people. You know, Google gives you all these benefits, blah, blah, blah. But, you know, there was still a managerial issue there.

00:37:59:23 – 00:38:20:16

Ed Purmalis

Right? So now what we could what we could call the business environment of, you know, the post-pandemic business environment, let’s just call it that. When solopreneur ship and startups really took over and they become they became fully global and fully remote, this is what the revolution is happening like. This is going to be the status quo ten years from now.

00:38:20:23 – 00:38:37:14

Ed Purmalis

It’s going to be all about nurture is going to be all about growth and it’s all going to be about the human element of the employee. And this isn’t me just pulling it out of my ass. I talked I talked to a couple of people that are advisors that are advising Fortune 500 companies currently how to pivot to that state of management.

00:38:37:26 – 00:39:04:17

Ed Purmalis

So this isn’t just something that I’ve made up. I’ve had a conversation with a couple of guys who are in those positions who are also podcasters and they get hired by the most brutal companies you could imagine to humanize the workplace. So this movement is happening, whether you like it or you’re not. But this is a sink or swim moment for a lot of these corporate structures that were old, stale, and soon enough, they’re going to be null and void.

00:39:05:06 – 00:39:27:18

Nick McGowan

Think of how technologically advanced we’ve become even in the past 50, 6000 years. Yet what you’re saying is more people focused and I’m right there with you. I agree that it’s kind of like people going in and going, hey, can you just not be an asshole to people and like, think, you know, and be open like maybe and people are understanding.

00:39:27:18 – 00:39:55:23

Nick McGowan

Yeah, maybe. I don’t have to be an asshole to people and I’m really just being an asshole because I was pissed about this other thing that I need to deal with. But if we all deal with those things will be kind of all right. So as we continue to grow tech wise and we integrate tech, it’ll be interesting to see how we integrate tech but keep the human side and become more human, because I think we’re now actually tapping deeper into emotions and being able to balance those emotions.

00:39:55:23 – 00:40:14:29

Nick McGowan

There’s still I have conversations with my dad where every once in a while, like, I can just tell we’re at different stages of like, he’s not going to get to this emotional stage just yet where I can kind of just jump there and be like, Hey, we can be here for a minute and that’s okay, you know? And that might be a generation.

00:40:14:29 – 00:40:56:16

Nick McGowan

Final thing. I’ve also heard different things with Generation Z as a millennial, I’ve heard that Z are being more competitive. Yeah. So I’ve heard that they’re being more competitive, which is very much a, I guess that’s like a boomer or I’m not going to go down that path and kind of go into all those different sections. But to think about where we’re going technology wise and how the humans are coming into that, it’s interesting to hear from your perspective, somebody who’s 25, not much older, only 37, but to see that difference and where you’re seeing things going, how do you think people can kind of help that along even within their day to day?

00:40:56:16 – 00:41:00:25

Nick McGowan

What kind of tips and tricks would you give them to be able to just keep keep going with that?

00:41:01:17 – 00:41:30:25

Ed Purmalis

Yeah. And I actually wanted to backtrack to your previous point about the technology of having a role in this. Technology has also eliminated a lot of busywork, which is what usually puts people in those moods. And the second thing is technology has made everything reputation based. If you’re an asshole in 2022, people are going to find out like even even some big SaaS companies right now are being exposed all over the Internet for their.

00:41:30:25 – 00:41:56:25

Ed Purmalis

And it’s it’s you know, this isn’t something that would have happened 30 years ago. They could have been running a slave labor shop and nobody would find out. But to your point, being more compassionate is something that everybody needs to learn at some point in their lives. And the sooner you do it, the better for a lot of Gen Z, I guess growing up with depression and anxiety, which is, you know, it’s a millennial thing.

00:41:56:26 – 00:42:30:07

Ed Purmalis

True. But that’s also it’s a it’s also a very deep Gen Z thing because make people a bit more compassionate like, like, like, like, like kids at 15 or going therapy, which then used to really be a thing back then unless you were completely fucked up. So in that sense that’s already working its own magic. But the way, the way that anybody who’s maybe my age can go and join the revolution is, you know, first option is, you know, once you once you go into a managerial role, you set that example and you follow it.

00:42:30:18 – 00:43:04:15

Ed Purmalis

But that’s not always going to be possible because you’re still you are still reporting to somebody. I’d say join the solopreneur ship entrepreneurship wave and run the kind of company that you would want to work with, working. That’s that’s how you go and you do it. And, you know, not everybody’s going to be an entrepreneur, but if you can be, you should and you should be having a tribe and people that you work with that that absolutely adore you and that whose lives you make better and ultimately who you serve.

00:43:05:04 – 00:43:09:04

Ed Purmalis

And that’s how you join the movement, right? That’s how you make it happen.

00:43:09:29 – 00:43:30:17

Nick McGowan

Yeah. And it sounds like, you know, if you do the thing that you feel like align with with you, then do that thing thing that makes the most sense and that’s the most authentic. And some people are afraid to kind of let some of that out. But and I appreciate you getting into a lot of stuff today. I’ve got a couple more questions I want to dig into.

00:43:30:17 – 00:43:42:27

Nick McGowan

And I know we could just talking for hours and hours and hours, but you give us something that you think is the most important thing that you’ve learned in life that has really helped you changed, especially over the past couple of years.

00:43:43:26 – 00:44:15:23

Ed Purmalis

The most important thing that actually fairly recently really, really started adapting again and what’s ultimately going to be the next differentiator. Differentiator between where I am now and where I’m planning to be is to focus less on results and focus more on the process because the results can often come easy or they can be very, very hard, hard, hard fought.

00:44:15:23 – 00:44:33:24

Ed Purmalis

The problem with easy results is that then you can fall off your track and go into this yo yo of here. I’m doing good here. I’m doing bad, I’m doing good. Let’s celebrate, let’s do nothing. Let’s go back. And that’s how I start jumping around. And that’s because you’re focused on results. And also results are sometimes just something that you’re not in control of 100%.

00:44:34:06 – 00:44:45:18

Ed Purmalis

But the process is and even if things don’t work out exactly as you wanted them to, you’re going to have a much easier time falling asleep at night knowing that you did all the right moves and all the right things.

00:44:46:08 – 00:44:55:12

Nick McGowan

Beautiful. Trust the process, my Philly friends. You’re welcome. So then where can people find you? Where can they connect with you?

00:44:56:00 – 00:45:16:21

Ed Purmalis

Do LinkedIn. LinkedIn has everything else that I’m doing. So LinkedIn Edward Perumal is my name and my link is probably going to be in the show notes. So no need to try to spell it out yourself. Yeah. And from there you can find a bunch of more stuff about me and the things that I’m doing and the podcast that I host and Nick has also been a guest on my show.

00:45:16:21 – 00:45:18:05

Ed Purmalis

We had a pretty good conversation there.

00:45:18:18 – 00:45:21:15

Nick McGowan

So go ahead and name drop that show.

00:45:22:03 – 00:45:30:15

Ed Purmalis

It’s the level up show where we are diving into people’s stories and figuring out what got them to the place they are today.

00:45:31:02 – 00:45:38:11

Nick McGowan

Well, thank you for being on the show today, my friend. It’s awesome to have you and I’m excited to be on your show again at some point and have you back here.

00:45:38:26 – 00:45:48:22

Ed Purmalis

Sounds great, man.

00:45:48:22 – 00:46:17:17

Nick McGowan

Another great conversation on today’s episode of The Mindset and Self-mastery show. I really appreciate Ed being on the show and opening up about his journey specifically over the past few years, but being let go from a job, leading a relationship, joining sales cast and just maturing through introspect. What did you think about the episode? I’d love to hear your thoughts on the conversation today and if you enjoyed the episode, please jump over to iTunes and subscribe rate and leave a five star review.

00:46:17:18 – 00:46:43:05

Nick McGowan

They really help other people find us and helps us get found. And if you’ve really enjoyed the show, please go ahead and share it with your friends, family, people that you know and trust. I’m sure they’ll love it as much as you do. And check out the show notes for more info, contact info for Ed and check out other episodes on the mindset and the self-mastery show dot com as well as our YouTube channel Search The Mindset and Self-mastery Show and you’ll see us.

00:46:43:21 – 00:46:56:07

Nick McGowan

Thank you again, Ed, for being on the show, for being honest, for being wrong, and for being real with us. And thanks to you for joining us today from Remember Your Mindset matters and so to you.