TCMP Season 2

Pastor, what do you do when God drops you in a valley of dry bones? In our Season 2 premiere, Pastor Don Sanderson shares 32 years of lead pastor lessons from Ezekiel 37.

When God asked, "Son of man, can these bones live?" Ezekiel didn't say "sure they can." He said, "O Lord, you know." Don and Kyle talk about what that answer means for pastors facing tired churches, CEO-style metrics, and people who leave or push back. They cover being stewards rather than owners, why every word from God comes with an instruction, the danger of "DoorDash for the Word," and how a man who threatened Don ended up weeping in his arms outside a hospital.

Don's new book, They Call Me Pastor, is a guide to a biblical, Pentecostal model of shepherding. It's headed to print soon. 📖 [link]

Where is God asking you, "Can these bones live?" Journal it, then share a takeaway below.

Chapters

00:00 Welcome to Season 2

00:28 Don's book They Call Me Pastor goes to print

02:01 What Bible college didn't teach me

02:17 Ezekiel 37: "Can these bones live?"

03:28 Stewards, not owners of the church

04:11 Shepherd's Refuge and the John 15 journey

06:30 Feed my sheep vs. CEO metrics

08:55 A theologian's verdict: pastor, not CEO or celebrity

10:04 Helping people leave well

11:23 "The people who brought you here won't be the ones you pastor in five years"

15:03 Candidating Sunday: 39 people and a crawl to the altar

18:08 Obedience: prophesy to the bones

19:31 Every word comes with an instruction

22:05 Depending on God completely

23:37 Doing ministry so well we don't need God (Samson)

25:38 "DoorDash for the Word": online church and consumer faith

27:51 The man who threatened me, and the hospital call

31:16 Not everyone who snips at you is a wolf

33:12 What it really means to prophesy

34:27 Your next step: journal it

Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts

Subscribe for weekly conversations on pastoral leadership.

#PastorPodcast #PastoralMinistry #ChurchLeadership #Ezekiel37 #TheyCallMePastor

What is spiritual discernment, and why is it essential for pastors and church leaders?

In Episode 017 of They Call Me Pastor, Kyle Popineau and Don Sanderson discuss one of the most important—and often misunderstood—responsibilities of pastoral ministry: hearing the voice of God, recognizing what the Holy Spirit is doing, and leading the church with spiritual discernment.

Spiritual discernment is more than identifying problems, judging people's motives, or recognizing spiritual opposition. It's about knowing the heart of God, understanding His timing, and having the wisdom to respond in obedience.

But what happens when pastors lose their ability to discern?

Too often, churches become consumed with programs, leadership strategies, organizational growth, and ministry trends while neglecting the presence of God. As Don explains, when pastors fail to see correctly, they begin to lead incorrectly.

In this conversation, Kyle and Don explore how pastors can develop biblical spiritual discernment through prayer, Scripture, intimacy with the Holy Spirit, and a renewed commitment to shepherding God's people.

They also share personal experiences of hearing God's voice, receiving spiritual direction, navigating difficult leadership decisions, and recognizing what God is doing in their congregations.

In this episode, you'll discover:

- What spiritual discernment actually means according to Scripture.

- The difference between spiritual discernment and judging people's motives.

- How pastors can recognize the voice and leading of the Holy Spirit.

- Why prayer and time in God's presence are essential for effective pastoral leadership.

- How to discern God's timing when making ministry decisions.

- Why church growth strategies cannot replace spiritual leadership.

- How spiritual discernment protects churches from mission drift.

- The danger of pursuing manifestations of revival instead of pursuing Jesus.

- How pastors can cultivate greater sensitivity to the Holy Spirit.

Whether you're a lead pastor, associate pastor, church planter, ministry leader, or someone seeking to grow in your relationship with the Holy Spirit, this episode will challenge you to prioritize God's presence over your own plans.

Because effective shepherding doesn't begin with a better strategy. It begins with knowing the Shepherd.

CHAPTERS / TIMESTAMPS

00:00 — What Is Spiritual Discernment?

01:27 — Discernment Is Not Judging People's Motives

02:47 — Learning to Recognize What God Is Doing

04:56 — It's His Church, Not Ours

05:56 — Developing Discernment Within Your Leadership Team

07:21 — Seeing Potential in People Others Overlook

09:23 — When God Reveals Something Through Prayer

11:40 — Hearing the Holy Spirit Before Important Decisions

13:21 — The Danger of Leading Without Discernment

16:35 — Why Pastors Must Prioritize God's Presence

18:26 — Developing Spiritual Disciplines That Strengthen Discernment

20:09 — Discernment Through Scripture

22:10 — Learning to Pray: "Show Me Your Glory"

23:04 — Have Churches Become Comfortable Without God's Glory?

25:20 — Recognizing the Shepherd's Voice

26:30 — How Spiritual Discernment Prevents Mission Drift

28:13 — Discernment During Difficult Seasons

29:58 — Restoring Expectation in the Church

31:23 — Don't Become Attached to God's Methods

32:23 — The Danger of Chasing Revival Manifestations

33:16 — Seek the Healer, Not Just the Healing

34:16 — Discernment Protects Pastors From Leadership Fatigue

35:02 — A Prayer for Spiritual Discernment

ABOUT THEY CALL ME PASTOR

They Call Me Pastor is a podcast dedicated to helping pastors and ministry leaders become biblically grounded, spiritually healthy shepherds.

Hosted by Kyle Popineau and Don Sanderson, the podcast offers practical conversations about pastoral ministry, biblical leadership, preaching, church revitalization, spiritual formation, and the challenges of shepherding God's people.

Our heart is to encourage pastors to lead with biblical conviction, humility, and dependence on the Holy Spirit.

Have a question about pastoral ministry or need encouragement? We'd love to hear from you.

Email: [email protected]

Instagram: @theycallmepastorpodcast

Subscribe for more conversations on biblical pastoral leadership, spiritual discernment, church health, and ministry.

#SpiritualDiscernment #PastoralLeadership #HolySpirit

Are you pursuing personal growth as a pastor?

In this AUDIO ONLY episode, Pastors Don and Kyle discuss what lifelong learning could look like in the life of pastoral ministry.

If you've ever felt behind or out of date in the approaches you're taking to ministry, this episode will encourage you and give you some practical ways to advance.

We pick up where we left off, discussing Church Boards and how to lead them in health, even when the budget doesn't match the vision. It's important to note that you can change the culture of your board, you don't always have to replace them. You can lead them to a healthy point.

What does it actually look like to lead a church board well?

In this episode of They Call Me Pastor, we dive deep into church leadership, board dynamics, and Spirit-led governance—topics most pastors were never trained for. From navigating difficult board relationships to building unity between pastor, staff, and congregation, this conversation gives practical and spiritual insight for every pastor and church leader.

If you’ve ever felt like you were “leading in the dark” when it comes to boards, staff, or structure—this episode will give you language, clarity, and a biblical framework to lead with confidence.

This is not corporate leadership with Christian language.

This is Spirit-led, pastor-centered leadership.

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0:00 – Leading without a roadmap: no one trained us for this

2:00 – The real challenge of working with church boards

3:10 – Why secular leadership models don’t work in the church

5:00 – The “arrow” framework for church leadership structure

7:10 – The danger of leading like a CEO instead of a shepherd

9:30 – The reality of small churches and pastoral leadership

10:30 – Lead, feed, protect—not drive the flock

11:00 – Why unity matters more than quick decisions

12:00 – Trust-building with your board over time

14:00 – Vetting and building a healthy board culture

16:00 – Structuring boards: oversight, staff, and trustees

17:00 – Why churches shouldn’t function like businesses

19:00 – When board members become family

19:50 – Key principle: pastors and boards shouldn’t be in conflict

21:00 – Accountability and vulnerability with leadership

24:00 – Using future language to shape vision

25:00 – Handling disagreement the right way

27:00 – Board meetings are not performance reviews

30:00 – Money, stewardship, and trusting God

31:30 – Don’t let finances drive vision

33:00 – Why slow, steady growth matters more than fast growth

35:00 – Structuring effective board meetings

39:00 – Pastor vs. chairman: don’t lose the calling

41:00 – Why pastors are burning out in leadership roles

43:00 – Don’t let present reality kill future faith

46:00 – Vision grows when you don’t focus on what’s in front of you

48:00 – Leadership is more than meetings—it’s relationships

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Key Takeaways

• Healthy churches are built on unity, not hierarchy

• Boards should function as partners, not opposition

• Pastors are called to shepherd, not manage

• Spirit-led leadership produces spiritual outcomes—not corporate ones

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Connect with Us

Follow for more content on pastoral leadership, church growth, and Spirit-led ministry

Instagram: @theycallmepastorpodcast

Email: [email protected]

What does it actually mean to lead Pentecostally?

In this episode of They Call Me Pastor, we sit down with Dr. Carolyn Tennant—professor emerita at North Central University and author of Leading Pentecostally—to talk about the theology behind Spirit-led leadership.

Many pastors today are trained in corporate leadership models, strategic planning, and organizational leadership. But what happens when the Holy Spirit becomes secondary to strategy?

Dr. Tennant challenges pastors and church leaders to rediscover what makes Pentecostal leadership different—not just in belief, but in practice.

This conversation explores how pastors can lead churches, families, and ministries in a way that stays connected to the movement of the Holy Spirit instead of becoming predictable, program-driven, or purely managerial.

If you’re a pastor, church planter, ministry leader, or Bible college student, this episode will challenge how you think about leadership.

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In This Episode

• What makes Pentecostal leadership different from worldly leadership

• Why many churches unknowingly adopt corporate leadership models

• The danger of losing deep connection with the Holy Spirit

• The metaphor of the River of Life and Spirit-led leadership

• Why ministry cannot be reduced to programs and planning

• How pastors drift away from spiritual vitality

• The importance of abiding in the Spirit

• Why the Holy Spirit is more like a wild goose than a tame dove

• How faith-filled leadership inspires others to trust God

• Why pastors must keep going deeper in the Spirit

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Timestamps

00:00 – The missing theology of Pentecostal leadership

00:42 – Introducing Dr. Carolyn Tennant

01:04 – The books that shaped this conversation

02:00 – Why Leading Pentecostally needed to be written

03:07 – The problem with borrowing leadership models from the world

04:43 – What Spirit-led leadership looks like on a Tuesday morning

06:09 – When ministry becomes program-driven instead of Spirit-driven

07:23 – The CEO model vs spiritual leadership

08:17 – The River of Life metaphor for leadership

09:44 – The Spirit moving through the “streets” of ministry

11:02 – Confessions pastors make about losing spiritual intimacy

12:12 – Why abiding in the Spirit is a leadership safeguard

13:40 – The danger of intellectual Christianity without spiritual vitality

15:10 – Leading Pentecostally in families, businesses, and churches

16:40 – Leadership as an adventure with the Holy Spirit

18:32 – Planning vs allowing space for the Spirit to move

19:18 – The Celtic metaphor of the “Wild Goose” Holy Spirit

21:18 – Following where the Spirit leads

22:03 – When Spirit-led decisions don’t make sense to others

23:08 – A mission trip with no oars: trusting God’s direction

25:31 – Why the world is looking for leaders who trust God

26:12 – Advice for young pastors entering ministry

27:09 – Learning to abide in the Holy Spirit

29:12 – Going deeper into the river of God

30:00 – Why pastors should never settle for shallow leadership

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If this episode encouraged you, share it with another pastor or leader.

Pastoral ministry is rewarding—but it can also be lonely, heavy, and discouraging if we’re not careful.

In Episode 006 of They Call Me Pastor, Kyle and Don talk openly about pastoral encouragement, loneliness, rest, and soul care. This episode is for pastors, church leaders, and ministry students who want to lead faithfully without burning out or isolating themselves.

This is an honest, practical conversation about staying healthy—emotionally, spiritually, and relationally—while carrying the weight of leadership.

⏱️ Timestamps

00:00 – Why pastoral encouragement and soul care matter

01:13 – Loneliness in leadership: is it unavoidable?

02:20 – Mentors, peers, and building healthy relationships

04:31 – Boards, overseers, and spiritual accountability

06:48 – Guarding your heart against isolation and discouragement

08:07 – Navigating friendships and pastoral authority

10:15 – Valuing people over performance

11:49 – Investing deeply in people and leaders

12:35 – Fatigue, boundaries, and the importance of rest

13:58 – Sabbath, sabbaticals, and sustainable rhythms

16:10 – What Sabbath can actually look like

18:10 – Encouraging yourself in difficult seasons

19:20 – Money, numbers, and discouragement in ministry

20:33 – Measuring health instead of attendance

23:02 – Why pastors shouldn’t make decisions on Mondays

24:30 – Ministry is heavy—but it’s also joyful

25:19 – Reflecting on God’s faithfulness

25:30 – Having fun and not taking yourself too seriously

27:20 – Collecting encouragement for hard seasons

30:55 – Being an encourager to other pastors

31:17 – Final encouragement and closing prayer

👉 If this episode encouraged you, share it with another pastor or leader who needs it.

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📩 Contact: [email protected]

📱 Instagram: @theycallmepastorpodcast

Conflict & the Pastor: How Peacemakers Lead Through Tension | EP04

Conflict is unavoidable in ministry — but unresolved conflict is deadly to a church, a staff, and a pastor’s soul.

In this episode of They Call Me Pastor, Kyle and Don break down how to handle conflict biblically, courageously, and with a shepherd’s heart.

Whether it’s tension on your staff, division in the congregation, difficult personalities, or a public interruption in the middle of a service… this episode will equip you to be what Jesus called blessed:

A peacemaker — not just a peacekeeper.

We walk through real pastoral stories, private and public correction, handling sin and restoration, Matthew 18, and why a shepherd can’t afford to sweep conflict under the rug.

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In This Episode You’ll Learn:

• The difference between peacekeeping and peacemaking

• How to confront issues without attacking people

• The “Conflict Sandwich” framework: affirm → correct → bless

• How to know when conflict should be addressed publicly vs. privately

• Why pastors must see both resolution and restoration as separate steps

• How to pull tense situations off of text/email and into healthy face-to-face conversations

• What to do when someone interrupts a service with an out-of-order “word”

• How to shepherd people through failure with grace and clarity

• What Matthew 18 actually teaches — and how to apply it without abusing it

• Tools for dealing with conflict among staff (and even family on staff)

• Why unity requires courage, clarity, and time with the Holy Spirit

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Quotes Worth Remembering

“He said blessed are the peacemakers. Those who bring peace with them — not just hope peace will be there when they walk in.”

“It’s never about attacking. It’s about resolving issues with staff in a way that glorifies Christ.”

“You can stop a conflict and still fail to restore a person — those are two separate steps.”

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Timestamps

00:00 – Peacemaker vs. Peacekeeper

00:33 – Welcome back to They Call Me Pastor

00:56 – Why pastors must learn biblical conflict resolution

01:47 – Avoiding conflict never works: Don’s early ministry lessons

02:35 – The Beatitudes and being a true peacemaker

03:32 – Kyle on personality: golden retriever… with a lion’s mane

04:49 – Conflict in revitalization and inherited church wounds

06:24 – “I was supposed to be the pastor”: navigating difficult personalities

06:49 – How to use the Conflict Sandwich

07:57 – Two situations in 30+ years with no reconciliation

08:30 – Protecting the flock during public disruptions

09:40 – Real story: handling a disruptive message in tongues

12:02 – When public issues require public correction

13:28 – When correction needs to happen in your office

14:09 – Using Scripture as the foundation for all correction

14:43 – Story: restoring a fallen leader with grace and community

17:23 – Teaching a church how to restore the broken

20:12 – The role of older mentors in shaping conflict resolution

21:01 – Matthew 18 — the right and wrong way to use it

22:19 – A painting dispute, fasting, and standing firm

24:43 – How to start hard conversations kindly

26:20 – Why serious conflict can’t be handled by text

27:00 – Navigating staff conflict (especially with family)

28:38 – The meeting that sealed Kyle’s hire

29:56 – “It’s never about attacking” — pastoral posture in conflict

31:08 – What healthy conflict resolution produces

33:00 – Final recap: affirm, correct, bless, restore

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Need Help Navigating a Conflict?

We’d love to pray with you or offer wisdom.

📩 Email us: [email protected]

📱 Instagram: @theycallmepastorpodcast

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If This Episode Helped You…

❤️ Like the video

🔔 Subscribe for more episodes

📤 Share it with a pastor, church leader, or Bible college student

You’re not alone in ministry.

Let’s lead — and love — well.

Is it enough to just “have a good sermon”? Or does who you are behind the pulpit matter just as much as what you say?

In this episode, Kyle Papineau and Don Sanderson dive into the relationship between the message and the messenger. They unpack how Scripture gives us authority—but intimacy with God gives us access to that authority, and why pastors can’t afford to shortcut study, prayer, or character if they want to faithfully feed the flock.

If you’re a pastor, preacher, Bible college student, or someone sensing a call to ministry, this conversation will help you:

• Build healthier study rhythms

• Develop a high view of Scripture

• Guard your heart from personality-driven, copy-and-paste preaching

• Align your life with the message you preach

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In This Episode:

0:00 – Scripture, authority & intimacy with God

0:33 – Welcome to They Call Me Pastor

1:15 – Why “raw” pastoral conversations matter

1:25 – Social media preaching vs. weighty preaching

2:12 – Scripture gives authority, intimacy gives access

3:06 – Don’s devotional & sermon prep rhythm

4:55 – Kyle’s prep process & early Sunday grind

7:45 – Expository vs topical & making disciples

9:00 – Hearing God vs chasing every “word”

11:31 – What matters more: the message or the messenger?

12:48 – Hermeneutics: hearing the Spirit in the text

14:03 – Sitting longer with the text & preaching from overflow

17:26 – High view of Scripture & reading the old giants

20:36 – Questioning Scripture & chaos in the church

22:12 – When messenger and message don’t match

23:28 – Correction, instruction & the heart of God

24:14 – Mentors, models, and planning rhythms

27:12 – Good study habits vs lazy shortcuts

29:19 – Can the messenger hinder the message?

31:05 – Final advice: double your study & prayer; set boundaries

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👉 If this episode helped you, please:

• Subscribe to the channel

• Like this video

• Share it with a pastor, Bible college student, or friend sensing a call to ministry

🖥 More Resources & Show Notes:

Visit: TheyCallMePastor.com

– Full show notes

– Recommended reading

– Blog posts & future resources for pastors and ministry students

📩 Stay Connected:

Email: [email protected]

Instagram: @theycallmepastorpodcast

We love you, we’re praying for you—

Let’s pastor well.

Pastors Don + Kyle unpack biblical shepherding from John 10 and Psalm 23—calling pastors to feed, lead, and protect the flock with a prayer-soaked presence. They contrast CEO culture with the Good Shepherd’s model and get practical about scars, boundaries, family, and praying for pastors.

Get the FULL show notes:

theycallmepastor.com/episodes/episode-002-a-call-to-biblical-shepherding

Connect with the Pastors:

@donsanderson | [email protected]

@kylelpopineau | [email protected]

[email protected]

#Pastoring #ShepherdNotCEO #PastoralCalling #MinistryHealth #PrayerLife #ChurchRevitalization #Discipleship