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All right, and three, two, one.
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And welcome to tearing down high places.
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My name’s average Joe got past your Jeff and past your Tim fellas.
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Welcome to the end of August.
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I’m flying.
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Time for the here we are.
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Oh, listen guys, I got a great guest today.
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Today’s my turn to introduce the guest because I know him kind of well.
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I’ve had him on my old podcast, which was called saving fatherhood.
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Had him on there a couple of times when I was interviewing different alien parents and people
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who went through really bad divorces and lost their kids and things like that.
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You know, the core issue was always no fault divorce.
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And I don’t remember exactly how I met our guest today.
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His name is Jeff Morgan, but he is the nation’s number one advocate to end no fault divorce.
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And he had this YouTube page with 10,000 subscribers.
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And he really got into the nuts and bolts of it.
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And guess what? He’s a former pastor and missionary.
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And he’s going to come on today and tell us how he might be the guy that actually ends no fault divorce here in the United States.
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Joe, when you mentioned this idea, it was right when I was preaching Ecclesiastes 5.
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Ecclesiastes 5 says, do not be rash to make a vow, but pay what you vow.
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And he said, Solomon said, it’s better to not vow than to vow and not pay.
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And he talks about the importance of vow.
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You can shipwreck your entire life by a vow that you don’t pay.
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So marriage is a vow.
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When you stand before God and man and make a statement, what you say with your words matters.
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In the presence of God and an oath is different than just an ordinary thing that is said.
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Because you’re invoking the name of God, you’re doing this in the presence of witnesses.
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It’s a marriage oath. It’s a vow.
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So we need to regard that as a sacred thing.
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Amen. And that’s what that’s what we want to do.
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And when order to do that and hold people accountable, we need to eliminate no fault divorce.
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Let’s welcome Jeff Morgan. Welcome.
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I’m going to tear down high places.
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Thank you so much.
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Pastor Tim, Pastor Jeff, average Joe Gormley.
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Thank you so much for having me on here.
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And I want to just say one thing first.
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Joe, you have been.
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A blessing to me.
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So talk with Joe with regard to what’s going on right now.
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And he said any time brother, you need somebody to pray for you.
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You just give me a call.
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And then he even said later on he said if you need somebody to pray, just text me.
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And there have been times Joe that I have felt like, you know, physically you go through things.
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And then at the same time you feel like you’re standing against the fear of hell.
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Like hell is coming at you.
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And there have been times Joe that I’m like, you know, three weeks ago I was in the emergency room.
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You know, having my my my heart checked and stuff like that.
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My heart’s in good condition. Everything was fine, but it was just the stress of going through all of this and, you know, it’s the unknown right now.
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I do think that, you know, those who are with us are greater than those who are with them.
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I told you Joe that if if this gets turned over, I don’t know that I want to volunteer for another mountain to take to take to take to take like Caleb White might do.
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It’s this walk is torturous. It’s howl at times, but I think we have to go through it, but I just wanted to say thank you for always being there and just being able to say listen, I’ll pray for you.
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And Joe, there’s been a number of times that within a few minutes after you pray, and it’s like, okay, you know what we can take the next step.
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So prayer is very important. I solicit everyone’s prayers, especially yes, I want to take down this evil system, but more importantly, I think is that I want to see my my marriage restored.
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As you were, as you were saying that, you know, two shall become one. They’re no longer, they’re no longer two there one. And when God brings you together, you’re better together and to be torn apart. It’s ripping out a side of you.
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I mean, that has impact, but thank you so much. Now you’re welcome so much. Let me just say real quick that I want to try and summarize a couple of things for the audience and for the pastor so that they can ask you some deeper questions around this. But so here’s the summary of what I’ve seen, Jeff.
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You know, you got divorced years ago and became a really powerful advocate and a person that has been involved in a lot of big cases across the country. I think of.
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There’s so many and and how I’ve watched you minister of people and you did that after you went through a no fault divorce. You were trying to honor your marriage and and biblical and that didn’t work out because the state will not and a lot of people don’t know this is why I’m saying this.
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The state does not enforce marriage.
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After all this advocating for other people, you had no idea this was going to happen, but your wife is now filing for a no-fault divorce.
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And while what we’re praying for is her to come back to you and to just throw this whole thing away, it really is no other person that I see that…
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God works in such crazy ways from our perspective that…
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Wow, why wouldn’t he put you in this situation to take out no-fault divorce because you’re quite frankly more knowledgeable about it than anyone I’ve ever met.
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Yeah, and that’s been one of the things that my friends here have said the same thing.
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And I want to see some of the same thing.
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I mean, there’s nobody else who can do this to the same person.
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I mean, if there is, I don’t know who it is. We’ve been trying to go after this.
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And that’s why it’s very difficult because yes, I want to see a torn down.
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I never thought I would be the person from this place fighting from a position of standing in a court that I now actually can hit it head on.
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And that’s what’s been so torturous. But I do think you’re right.
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It’s easy to tell other people how to do it, but then now whether I’m in it, I’m like, you know what?
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Even when you’re telling people what to do and how to go about attacking it, being in it yourself, your heart is in turmoil.
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It’s just torture. So yeah, you’re absolutely right, Joe.
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I think that this is, we’ve been studying this issue. When I say we, there’s been a small group of us been doing this probably 10, 11 years.
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First, no fault of, you know, my first wife filed for no fault of worse.
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I like, no matter what I did, I could have had 20 witnesses there with me.
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In fact, I even mentioned it to the judge. I said, if I had 20 witnesses here that said you shouldn’t do this, would you not, would you stop the divorce?
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And he said, well, I don’t know. I don’t know. He was telling, I said, the Texas family coach says that you can, you may grant the divorce. Oh, no, I have to.
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No, but if your issues with the legislature, I just bother the lot. It’s horrible.
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And that’s when I said that any single pastor who marries a couple at the altar and he says, you know, try to let them know until, you know, until death, do you part, you’re going to be married a part of the court.
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And for life, they’re actually committing perjury in a sense. They don’t realize this because the state, which loves separation of church and state, except when it gets to interfere with the covenant of the church, I took a covenant marriage.
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My vows were my prenuptial. My vows were my commitment to God. I will not get divorced. Are there times that you feel like you might want to. Of course, I was up at Bible college. I remember this one, God be lady said, Jeff, I’ve woken up three times in my marriage.
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I’ve looked over at my husband. I said, why am I even here with him? But nevertheless, it’s the it’s, you know, God takes two imperfect people, two sinful people. And he wants to make something better out of both of them. My weaknesses, she should have strengths, her weaknesses, I should have strengths. We compliment each other.
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But he takes two sinful people and he makes them the trophy of his grace. He wants to present us to say, this is God’s grace at work within two two sinful people. And this marriage is what I want to use to portray the relationship of Christ in the church. And the state says, forget about that.
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Crazy crazy. So I like the I think I think the thing that’s going to edify a lot of people that are listening to this. First of all, people need to understand that their kids are at risk because I’ve talked to so many people Christians, loving Christians, people who love other people as as they’re going to share in the gospel regularly have no idea that marriage is unenforceable.
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It really is a unilaterally torn away from you. Why is that a problem, Jeff? That’s a huge problem because you know, even if you have a marriage covenant, there are some states that have covenant marriages, but the problem is not the covenant marriage necessarily or the marriage vows that we take before God.
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Why should a state be able to invalidate my vows to God? And my wife vows to God that we mutually made in the presence of many witnesses before God himself. And the state says, oh, you know what one of you wants out of it, that’s okay. That is destructive. And actually if you go back historically, this is something that if you go back to the 1840s, Marx and Engels wrote about the abolition of the family, Stalin, I’m sorry, Lenin came to power and he enforced that in Bolshevik Russia. He took marriage as being
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an ordinance from the church and made it a civil institution. And therefore, if it’s a civil institution, the civil state can now re-write the laws of marriage. And that’s where divorce on demand started at least in the 20th century in 1917, 1918. It was so horrific what happened to society that in July of 1926, the Atlantic magazine, that bastion of conservatism wrote an article called the Russian Effort to Abolish Marriage.
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And what they were talking about is eight years into no-fall divorce. The results were so devastating that they were talking amongst themselves to what do we do?
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And abortions were skyrocketing. They didn’t really have abortions as much like that. And then it was just so many things that Stalin eventually had to reverse some of these policies because the communist society had no raw material to work with as far as with the kids of concern.
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And we’ve seen that in our own society. 55 years plus of no-fall divorce. And people blame Reagan. And I don’t know if that’s 100% accurate. Yes, he signed it. But remember the people that were telling him to sign no-fall divorce into legislation, they were lying to him. The entire divorce industry thrives on lies.
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They thrive on exploitation. They thrive on the destruction of the family. And they also thrive on the destruction of religious vows.
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So I’ve said that obviously Marx and Gauls Lenin, they were very atheistic and stuff like that. They were a big influence here. But the other influence that we don’t think about is Alfred Kinsey and Kinsey and sexual revolution.
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So you have communism totalitarianism that wants to destroy the family, want to destroy the family, destroy society, destroy the family, destroy society. And then you can reshape it in a communism.
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But they forgot while I have no more materials to work with, right? But then also Alfred Kinsey, sexual pleasures above everything. He was a pervert. Sexual pervert, he did his studies that should be completely discredited.
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We have this so-called Kinsey in science, which should be eliminated. In fact, there are some people that are trying to get laws that are based on Kinsey eliminated. But what he also did too, he was trying to advocate against marriage. So we have two strong cultural forces.
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Remember, Satan does not come as an evil person a lot of times. He comes as an angel of light. And then sexual freedom, you being oppressed, and you’re going to have this freedom.
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They put the angle of the care in front of you, but it has created devastation in our society. So between Marx, Engels, Lenin, and then Alfred Kinsey, the sexual revolution, and the church being silenced or silencing its own voice.
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Jesus is very explicit about no-fault divorce. Lord, can we divorce our wives for any reason, for no reason whatsoever? No. From the very beginning, it was not done this way.
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God created men and women. For this Kasha, the man, leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife. The two shall become one.
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What, therefore, God has joined together, let no man tear us under and not no man, no state, no court, no judge.
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And we have Christian judges saying, well, I can’t do anything. What can I do? Well, you could stand up. You could be a Christian.
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And you could also be a pastor that don’t talk about this. We have to call the divorce sin. It’s listed in the Sermon on the Mount for crying out loud. Jesus is talking about the divorce on the Sermon on the Mount after murder and adultery comes the divorce.
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So we have underestimated. We have not preached against the evilness of this. And when we have a way to get out of something, we tend to use it rather than to work through things.
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Wow. Can I add to that Malachi chapter 2 verses 13 to 18?
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Absolutely.
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And this second thing you do, you cover the Lord’s altar with tears, with weeping and groaning because he no longer regards the offering or accepts it with favor from your hand.
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But you say, why does he not?
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Because the Lord was witness between you and the wife of your youth, to whom you have been faithless, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant.
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Did he not make them one with a portion of the spirit in their union?
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And what was the one God seeking?
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Godly offspring.
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So guard yourselves in your spirit and let none of you be faithless to the wife of your youth.
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Amen.
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Amen.
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And that’s the lack of enforcement, the lack of ability to enforce that is the problem.
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And you let me add something else here too, because in the Jewish cultural testament,
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a wife was not allowed to file for divorce legally.
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That’s why it’s written to you, man.
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Do not divorce the wife of your youth.
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So now this women’s equality movement in order to make things equal.
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It’s not telling people husband’s men on your covenant vows what we’ve tried to say is now women can do it to men.
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So we have now equalized sinfulness, and that’s the idea.
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We have to give women equal rights.
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And the thing is that if there’s a whole lot of issues with this thing here.
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I was listening to this Jewish lady said, well, if you don’t want to get rid of no fault of what,
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you should all become Jewish because in the Jewish religion, only a man is allowed to divorce the wife.
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And I’m like, the thing is even, I don’t know if it still works out way in the Jewish religion or not,
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because the state has basically said anybody for any reason.
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For no reason, you can make up a reason.
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You get, perjury is rampant in family court.
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All you have to do is a ledge in supportability. No facts are needed.
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In fact, in our text family code, that’s what it says.
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Without regard, it basically no facts are necessary.
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All you have to do is a ledge in supportability.
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Nobody knows what it means.
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There’s discord or conflict of personality such that the legitimate ends of the marital relationship
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cannot be achieved. What does that mean?
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Nobody knows. Actually, that’s a religious determination or ideological determination.
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Which is one reason why this one just as stuck in 2001 said there is no possible way to reconcile the statute with our Texas Constitution and Texas jurisprudence.
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So marriage is created by God.
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And that’s what we have in our case law ordained by God.
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And yet the state looks at it in a Marxist, Kinsey, and Viewpoint.
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Like it’s just the temporary contract. We have redefined marriage.
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We always talk about, well, you know, same sex marriage. We redefined marriage by saying marriage is okay to be temporary.
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Marriage is just dating. Yeah. Yeah.
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Yeah. It’s it. Yeah. It’s dating. And we’re sending people in the day.
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And I think it would be really great to get into like, what, how you’re going to take it down? Because we’re about halfway through already.
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Imagine that’s not fine.
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I didn’t realize that’s a fact.
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Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Before you get to the solution, tell me a little bit more about this.
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Kinsey and guy.
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So where what countries from and how did he get influence? What’s his deal?
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So Alfred Kinsey was a hero at the Kinsey reports, you know, we talked about men and women and their sexual
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proclivities and stuff like that. What happened is he took a population.
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I think for women, he interviewed prostitutes and for men, he interviewed like sexual
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proprimals and priests and this was during one of the wars. So he couldn’t get real men.
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He had proprimals and then and he used to, I mean, he, the stuff that he did with kids, he was a sexual
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proprimals. He should have been put behind bars. He would masturbate little, little kids because he wanted to see
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like at four months old and these kids have orgasms. How many can they have? And this is what he was doing with the sexual
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research. He actually was providing this so-called science behind it that he
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had to become the pamphleteer for with playboy and other things like that. So he had up,
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Kinsey was the one who said, kind of everybody’s on a sexual spectrum. You know, it’s not male and female,
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it’s you can move on the sexual spectrum like we have today. The people can say, well, I identify as a man today,
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I identify as a woman tomorrow, I identify as maybe a cat some other day. You know, you have this whole,
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whole spectrum of things. But Kinsey is, his laws will design to help increase sexual promiscuity,
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because everybody thinks this way. Everybody wants to have a fair, everybody has these secret fantasies and stuff like that.
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And Kinsey, he was a horrible person, he was a sexual pervert, he should have been probably in prison or whatever,
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because of the stuff that he did. But he influenced the sexual revolution. So, and what he did with Kinsey,
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they started to change biblical laws. They were biblical laws in place, and I wish I would have had this printed off here,
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but they had biblical laws in place. And because of the influence, not just of Marxism, but of Kinsey as well,
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they started to give more rationalist to why these laws no longer apply today.
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And so you look at, like I said, first you have Playboy, and then you have Penthouse, and then you have Hustler,
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and then you have Who knows what at this point? Bestiality, all sorts of things. You know, you can go back to Alfred Kinsey,
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and his philosophy at least provided a lot of the justification of these things. Like, you know, this is just a rational behavior of a man or a woman.
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But you know that if you’re interviewing people from a sexual deviant population, that’s not the normal population.
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That’s a sexually deviant population. So they take sexual deviant scene, now they’re opposing it on society.
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But then of course, you know, well, you can’t just be tied down to one person. You might want to have multiple people.
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You might want not just the couples, but the thruples and you know, if you start justifying on biblical behavior.
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So between Marx and Kinsey, this is what’s been attacking marriage.
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We always got to ask by what standard do you name that thing sexual deviancy?
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Because our culture that has no objective standard is constantly redefining what is and is not moral.
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And they have nothing. Right? So sexual deviancy means abandoning your spouse.
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That is sexual deviancy and I think that’s how Jesus defines it.
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Yeah. And you know, and I’m glad you mentioned that Joe because when I grew up, my parents were divorced.
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I remember right around my 16th birthday, horrible.
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That’s my birthday present, right? That my parents were divorced.
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I remember when the letter came and you know, it’s what they are to read around that whole time and everything.
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But you know, we were the oddity.
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Social pressure was to keep families together, not to destroy them.
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And now you hear people like, well, maybe she just needs to be fulfilled. Maybe she needs to find herself.
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And the vow is the covenants that we make to God. Me nothing. Well, and even pastors, I hate to say this because the church is not the same.
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But I want to seek help from absolutely horrible. Like this is an option.
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It’s not a command of Christ. It’s not that brother or sister, you’ve made this vow.
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You should be honoring your vow. You should be honoring God. You cannot be pleasing God while you’re divorcing your husband or your divorce in your wife.
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And then somebody can say, well, I’m divorcing my husband and divorcing my wife. And I’m a strong Christian.
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No, you’re a disobedient Christian if you’re a Christian because it also says that, you know, by divorcing the person that you read in Malachi, that that’s not of God’s spirit.
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So is God’s spirit living in the person? That’s a question that maybe others can answer.
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But, you know, we cannot justify these types of behavior.
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Everything is we know. It’s through many tribulations and trials that we enter the kingdom of heaven.
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And sometimes it comes to us in marriage. Sometimes it comes to us externally.
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But the thing is that our commitment first informs us to Christ and to our commitment to Him as well and our vows to Him.
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And then our spouse should be part of that growing process.
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But divorce will just destroy, destroy. It’s a blake that might you’ve lied to God and think it’s going to be okay.
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All right. So, you should have pushed them down. Tell us, where’s the hope on the horizon? What can we fight for? What can we do?
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So, in my petition, what I’ve done here, and because of course it is a secular court, and my secular, I would also say, anti-god court.
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So, the secular court, the anti-god court, is going to grant the divorce no matter what.
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And what they’ll tell you is that we have no option. Well, there’s a lot of things actually we’re fighting it from a constitutional level.
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So, I can tell you that this is the direct attack to Texas Family Code 6.001, which is our no-fault divorce statute.
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The statute enables petitioners to obtain a divorce for any reason, for no reason, they can make up a reason.
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The respondent doesn’t have to know the reason. There is no defense. This is a statute with, it’s a lawsuit. First off, we need to remember, it’s not, oh, they’re going to help me through the divorce process.
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No, this is a lawsuit. You’re being sued. And you have no defense. Can you name any other lawsuit like that? Do you have any, I mean, is there any lawsuit that just the moment that you’re alleged to have done something, your guilty?
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Maybe if you don’t Trump over something, I don’t know. But I mean, the reality is that when you’re alleged to have done something, you should be able to prevent a defense.
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That’s what do processes to be meaningfully heard. There is no defense in the issue of unilateral forced, no-fault divorce. And by the way, be, be, be, continue further.
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This was an issue that we had in our Texas GOP platform in 2020. I got the platform changed. It’s been around for 15 years. I think it was that we’re calling upon the legislature to rescind no-fault divorce.
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I put one word into that platform to rescind unilateral no-fault divorce. Because if you have a contract, and I’m not saying I’m not going to comment on this, but if you have a regular contract, usually you can sue for material breach of the contract, which would be some type of a fault.
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And usually there’s an opportunity to rectify or remedy that fault, or you can get out of the contract by mutual consent.
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So what I wanted to do by putting in the word unilateral, would you say that it’s a specific type of no-fault divorce because this gives the respondent who in many, many instances says, wait a minute, I don’t agree with this.
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And he’s watching me interrupt real quick. I think first of all, I think the end seven would support that as well.
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When it says to allow let if the unbelieving spouse chooses to leave, let them go, but it should be up to the person who is being violated, who’s who, who the person that’s being harmed by the breaking of a covenant.
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Because we’re not talking about something that was easily slapped together and easily pulled apart when you pull something apart like that, everything breaks.
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So that person has the right by God to say you can go or not go and what you can go with, what you’re allowed to think.
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If they take anything, it’s either theft or it’s grace and they can give as much grace as they want.
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Absolutely. The thing with first Corinthians 7, which I think people don’t recognize, is that even in the context that people abandon their spouse, the concept as I understand it was more so that you had two people, the gospel was preached.
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One of them became a believer, the other one didn’t. So I mean, it is completely unthinkable in Jesus’ mind that two people that are walking with him would be divorced.
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Now, when you have two unbelievers, one person converts and it tells the believing spouse, well, if your unbelieving spouse wants to stay with you, they’re not divorced him. They’re not divorced her.
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But if this person wants to leave, you’re not in bondage, God has called us to peace.
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And I mean, there’s a lot of variations among different denominations, religions, Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestants like that.
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How that gets played out. But again, it’s a situation where two people have come to Christ, or one person has come to Christ, the other one has not.
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This is not written for believer and believer.
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We are the, the repressor, our marriage represents the love of Christ, the relationship of Christ and the church.
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And your wife still claims to be a believer.
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A strong Christian.
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Strong Christian.
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And the church will let her get away with that.
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That is obscene.
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It’s a, it’s worse than obscene. Absolutely, it’s obscene.
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And, and, and the, and Joe, I don’t, I know if we’ve talked privately about some of the things that these people have said.
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It is horrible.
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They, they, I’m trying to, I’m trying to answer the question that also I’ll give back to this too, but they gave me this thing called the therapeutic separation agreement.
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That they wanted me to sign and I’m like, what is this therapeutic separation agreement?
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Well, it was a godless document.
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And I wrote back, I said, in good conscience, I cannot and I will not sign this.
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And the very first condition that says that the husband and wife should get together and talk about this separation.
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It can be a time of great blessing.
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First Corinthians says, just the opposite.
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You know, you marry, you, you marry each other.
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You’re one.
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And now they’re taking, well, we’re going to split you apart as to, there may be some instances where this is valuable.
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If innocence is of abuse or addiction or adultery or something, something like that, I can see that.
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But I also said to nowhere in the document did it talk about the purpose of God for marriage.
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You know, there are covenant separation agreements.
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They said nothing like that.
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And they said, well, if you can’t agree on the separation, it shows that you’re in trouble.
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I’m like, what?
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And then in the third paragraph, it changed the word from therapeutic separation to temporary separation.
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Do you believe in temporary marriages too?
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Do we have trial marriages?
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What is this?
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Let me include the pastors here and ask them because I’ve talked to them both about this before.
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I know what they’re going to say.
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Guys, how do we reconcile Paul in 1 Corinthians 7 with Jesus’ statement that you can’t have a divorce except for sexual immorality if not to say that any separation is divorce.
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I think that’s the only logical way.
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I think every other theological idea about divorce is just inconsistent.
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Yeah, I think the advice that pastors give, well, why don’t you take a time of separation?
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Is basically saying here, why don’t you take this poison pill in the middle of your healing?
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And hopefully this is going to work out well for you.
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Yeah, nobody’s jumping back in the fire.
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There’s, I think it’s 8% of people who go through counseling while they’re separated come back together.
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Because you’re not jumping in that fire.
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You got to fight through the pain and together.
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If you’re separated, you’re not, you’re not, it’s not going to, you’re not going back to that pain.
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You just won’t.
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So Jeff, tell us, you know, I mean, tell us some of the ways that you’re going to be fighting this.
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I think one of the most, and I teased this out to a bunch of people at Cornerstone Church.
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So we got to cover it.
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One of the things I think is amazing is you’re going to take one of your 12 ways to attack no fault divorces to use a burglifel against the folks that pushed a burglifel down our throat.
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Tell us about that.
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Sure, back in 2015, we had the oburgifel the hottest decision.
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And basically what they did.
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Now remember, this is another activist judge stuff where the active because people that not want same sex marriage, I’d voted it down again and again and again.
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So oburgifel goes to the Supreme Court and then Justice Kennedy talks about, you know, federally at a federal level, well, basically the status of marriage bestows a constellation of benefits upon you.
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And how can we deprive two people of the same sex who are who want these benefits?
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How can we deprive them of these benefits simply because of the same sex?
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So when I read that, I talked with a friend that I’ve been working with about this a long time ago, I said, look at what they’ve said here.
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If they keep oburgifel, they have to get rid of no faulty force because what they’re saying is we cannot deprive these people of these federal benefits.
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And there’s also state benefits. There’s one law professor out of South Carolina.
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I think her name is Marsha Zug, but she said that marriage bestows upon you over 1150 federal benefits and additional state benefits.
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So if these benefits, we can’t, I mean, we really can’t deny two people who love each other these benefits.
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How can you take them away from me? I am a legally innocent man.
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And you can be simply because my wife or when it happens to women because trust me Joe, there’s a lot of people, a lot of women that are calling me that are saying, you know, we will fight for you because they’ve gone through what they’ve seen the destruction they live in pop whatever has taken place.
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And these benefits are being deprived.
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They’re innocent people. And why is this a lot? Now I would say if a person wants to change his or her marital status, I don’t know how you do this necessarily go ahead and do it yourself.
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But the person left behind should at least be have those benefits still because you’re taking away benefits from the person for no reason. That is unjust.
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Now the best thing of course from is to you know people need to have discipleship. I mean really this is not an issue of counseling. Sometimes it is. I’m going to say sometimes counseling will help.
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But it’s an issue of teaching people radical discipleship. We’re supposed to love our enemies. The person that we’ve married for the most part we married because at one time we said I love this person.
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I’m going to spend my life with this person. This person is chosen by God for me. And now they’re going to become you treated them as worse than an enemy. You treated them like an unbeliever and you’re claiming to be a believing a strong Christian.
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That’s completely inconceivable. But Obergi fell yes. I said the moment I saw Obergi fell I said look at this. If there’s if there are you want that we cannot deny two people of the same sex these benefits.
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Then how is it that they can keep no fault divorce unilateral divorce because they’re getting given people the same sex and they’re going to take them away from people that have made a commitment to be married simply because one person says I think the marriage is insupportable. I’m going to leave.
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So that’s how we try to flip that’s but yes, I do have that in here is one of the arguments for sure.
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But there’s another issue too and I mean being as we’re speaking with you with with you with you gentlemen here, you know, we have a conscience class in the Texas Constitution that the government shall not compel us to act against our religious conscience.
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That’s article one section six of our Texas Constitution and it says in no matter whatever nothing.
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But we also have I don’t know if you remember but back in 1993 there was the Religious Freedom Restoration Act with the sponsored by those conservative stalwarts Ted Kennedy and Chuck Schumer and signed into love by Bill Clinton.
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You know, so these great conservative these right wing conspiracy. I’m sorry. I shouldn’t be getting under this right now.
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But we love mockery here. Yeah.
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And in fact, I’m actually using this in a different scenario right now because that protects us against federal involvement. But then in that I think it was 1998, 1999 they said this became a state issue. So Texas passed its own version.
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The Texas Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which is codified in our Texas government code, 1,100.003.
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And basically what it does is that you can take a look at any law past current future. And because if it infringes upon my real, the government has to show a compelling interest why this statute allows them to violate my religious pre practices, my religious freedom.
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And as a Christian, I believe that my religious marriage is to honor God. I am to learn how to love my wife, serve my wife, pray for my wife, forgive my wife.
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She’s supposed to learn as well various things in her role, you know, toward me.
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And we have duties. And you know, the other thing is that as a pastor, you can be eliminated from a position simply by going through a divorce.
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There was a friend of mine who just said, you know, my sister divorced this one man. He was a godly pastor, never swore anything like that.
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In the moment they got divorced, he lost his job. And then if you look at 1 Timothy chapter 3, elders are supposed to be the husband of one wife.
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Do you can just supposed to be the husband of one wife?
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Again, I understand that there’s various interpretations. But you can go back to Apostolic cannons away before that.
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They basically talk about the necessity of being, I would say the husband, it says the husband of one wife.
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And it doesn’t completely address the divorce issue, but if you are divorced, you either have to remain celibate or if you remarry, you lose the privilege of serving certain offices.
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And people can lose their office. The other thing is that has happened down here is that we’ve had pastors that have gone through this and the courts will tell the pastor, you can’t pray or any religious person, you can’t pray with your children.
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You can’t register to your children that talks about this happened with a Jeff Younger case.
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He was not allowed to teach his children about biblical sexuality because his ex-wife, well his unknowled wife supposedly, said that their son wanted to be a transgender.
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So when Jeff would dress the boy like a boy, you know, do boy things with him, which is what he wanted to be, read the Bible with him.
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He was not allowed to read about sexual sexuality and we’ve had other people that a pastor could not take their child to work on a take your child to work day because he was a pastor of a church.
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So this is a great violation that our government is voicing upon us on our religious liberty, on our religious freedoms.
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And the government has no authority to do that furthermore, the courts have to define what is legitimate nature of the miracle relationship.
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And this is what happened back in 2001 when Justice Kim Thompson Frost said, this is a religious issue.
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The courts are not allowed to rule on this issue.
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Therefore, this statute is unconstitutional from the get go.
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And she was this loan dissent, it was a three justice panel.
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I think the one justice kind of used some circular logic to get to his position.
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But I think that she set it up for us in the future to actually say, look it.
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You have to use these arguments to get rid of the stuff.
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And so this is a very big issue because can you imagine that two churches go to the court and say,
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well, we believe in a pre-tribulation rapture.
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They believe in a post-tribulation rapture.
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This one doesn’t believe in any rapture at all.
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Of course, we want you to decide what’s the best thing.
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That’s a great analogy.
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Wow, that’s an amazing analogy.
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00:37:57,000 –> 00:38:08,000
Yeah, but the thing is the instant and Texas law, Texas jurisprudence says marriage as an institution ordained by God, founded by God, created by God.
340
00:38:09,000 –> 00:38:14,000
So if it’s created by God, why can the state tell us, regulate that?
341
00:38:15,000 –> 00:38:15,000
Wow.
342
00:38:15,000 –> 00:38:16,000
Wow.
343
00:38:16,000 –> 00:38:21,000
So divorce is basically a disaster for everyone involved.
344
00:38:22,000 –> 00:38:24,000
Oh, it’s you’re the one that initiates a divorce.
345
00:38:24,000 –> 00:38:28,000
You’re outside the will of God and you’re rebelling against God.
346
00:38:28,000 –> 00:38:36,000
If you’re the one that gets divorced, you’re probably getting your heart broke and your heart ripped out and you’re being separated from what God has put together.
347
00:38:37,000 –> 00:38:43,000
And then if you have children in the mix, I have to go on a limb and say it’s probably terrible for children.
348
00:38:44,000 –> 00:38:54,000
Now I have a friend who says it worked out a little bit because both of their parents, they got divorced, started buying them extra stuff and tried to like win his love.
349
00:38:54,000 –> 00:38:59,000
But really what would have been better for for any child involved is just to have both parents in the home.
350
00:39:00,000 –> 00:39:02,000
Absolutely. And you make a very good point here.
351
00:39:02,000 –> 00:39:05,000
There’s some lady in a forget her name, but she wrote the two parent privilege.
352
00:39:06,000 –> 00:39:18,000
If there’s a website called them before us and it talks about the advantage of having both parents and that judge who just died, Judge Frank, the guy that everybody used to love to listen to because he was a very compassionate judge.
353
00:39:18,000 –> 00:39:26,000
He was talking about how he came from Italy and they’re growing up and they didn’t have much, but he was so rich because he had both parents and both parents in the home.
354
00:39:27,000 –> 00:39:36,000
This is another part of the divorce ideology that has been forced upon children to say that children are resilient. Children will be happy if their parents are happy.
355
00:39:36,000 –> 00:39:44,000
That is an absolute lie. It has silenced children. Children of the worse should be speaking up, but the thing is they’ve been shamed for someone.
356
00:39:44,000 –> 00:39:51,000
It’s like we can’t really talk about this. Everybody tries to say that well, you’re supposed to be strong. No, the parent should be strong for the children.
357
00:39:52,000 –> 00:40:14,000
Because the children haven’t learned to deal with their own sin nature yet. Right? So they’re going to manipulate the single parent, especially the single mom. They say now that there’s new studies that come out and say a single mom is the most dangerous environment for a child because she’s more easily manipulated because she’s more emotional than the single father.
358
00:40:14,000 –> 00:40:25,000
Right? Whereas at the early years, you got to have the mother, right? You got to have the mother, but after you get past that certain point, then you got to have the father. The real thing is we need them both all the time.
359
00:40:26,000 –> 00:40:35,000
We need them both separate that at all is just a wicked sin that the government needs to be called out for their participation in this.
360
00:40:35,000 –> 00:40:50,000
Right? And that’s absolutely true. And the other thing is when you mentioned the thing with a single mother, people said, well, you know, maybe it wasn’t abusive father. Statistically speaking, a child is much safer with a father than with a mother’s new boyfriend or fiance or husband.
361
00:40:50,000 –> 00:41:05,000
I was talking to our friend Amaro who lives in Malawi and he says every time there’s a divorce, the father automatically gets the children for that reason because they find that it’s unsafe for a child to go into another place.
362
00:41:05,000 –> 00:41:16,000
And then with the wife because she starts marrying or you know living with men that aren’t safe. And you know what? That limits the divorce rate by a lot.
363
00:41:16,000 –> 00:41:25,000
Yeah, so that’s your very very interesting point there because right now our state incentivizes divorce. It incentivizes divorce.
364
00:41:25,000 –> 00:41:36,000
Number one, if you filed for divorce, you always get it. Then they say well at least get 50% of the stuff. So I if I leave the company that I work for, I don’t get to take stuff with me.
365
00:41:36,000 –> 00:41:47,000
I have to return my stuff. And we have these so called community property laws, which only makes sense in a Christian context. I mean, they were there were some historical reasons for this.
366
00:41:47,000 –> 00:41:55,000
But now what they’ve taken again, they’ve taken this practice that some Christians help to to set into place, but they’ve taken Christ out of it.
367
00:41:56,000 –> 00:42:06,000
Community properties for the community. If you’re leaving the community, why do you take anything? Because the community is the marital community.
368
00:42:06,000 –> 00:42:14,000
And that’s what the divorce attorneys know that they can find over these things. And by the way, your children are part of that marital community somehow.
369
00:42:15,000 –> 00:42:23,000
They get a stranger will tell you when you can’t see your children, when you can’t, and if you violate those orders, you may end up in jail.
370
00:42:23,000 –> 00:42:34,000
Or if you have to pay to have somebody else watch your children called child support, when you’re a fit and willing and able person to do something, they can put you in jail for that.
371
00:42:34,000 –> 00:42:39,000
And the state also gets incentivized with federal money under the Title 4D program.
372
00:42:40,000 –> 00:42:49,000
So the state is not an unbiased, objective, neutral entity in the soul thing. They also know that they can collect money from this stuff.
373
00:42:49,000 –> 00:42:59,000
And that’s what they’ve done. So they’ve oppressed people. They’ve exploited them. And the attorneys that are involved in the stuff charge sometimes $500 an hour, $250, whatever.
374
00:43:00,000 –> 00:43:12,000
I mean, a lot more than what an average person makes by far. And they know how to, I’ve talked with paralegals. I said, oh yeah, you know, the divorce attorneys would get together and they say, I’m going to do this, you’re going to do that.
375
00:43:12,000 –> 00:43:38,000
And they would they would negotiate on how to basically exploit the parents finances. And so what you walk in, and I don’t know if this is in Texas, but New Jersey, you walk in, you have to fill out a case information statement, whether you’re the divorcey or you’re the one calling for the divorce or the other person is that that case information statement is basically an income statement and a balance sheet.
376
00:43:38,000 –> 00:43:48,000
Everything you make now and in the future and every asset you have. And then the they they measure you and they say, oh, you got this much fight in you and they drain it off.
377
00:43:48,000 –> 00:43:55,000
Right. And Joe, let me say the first thing about that too, is that not a violation of our fourth amendment under the US Constitution?
378
00:43:56,000 –> 00:43:56,000
Of course.
379
00:43:57,000 –> 00:44:00,000
As a legally innocent individual.
380
00:44:00,000 –> 00:44:06,000
But other areas in our culture and our government, we’ve destroyed the fourth amendment in so many ways with the Patriot Act.
381
00:44:07,000 –> 00:44:15,000
And you know, I mean, Pastor Jeff’s probably signed off a million vaccine vaccination letters to people trying to get exemptions.
382
00:44:15,000 –> 00:44:15,000
Yeah.
383
00:44:16,000 –> 00:44:18,000
And you know, our culture doesn’t care about that.
384
00:44:18,000 –> 00:44:26,000
So tell us another thing. So you you’re going after a burger fell, which I think, you know, one of the problems in divorce, you’ve got all these big Christian law firms out there.
385
00:44:26,000 –> 00:44:31,000
That will fight for your first amendment, right? And other rights, they won’t touch divorce.
386
00:44:31,000 –> 00:44:35,000
But they should want to go after a burger fell and they should want to like help you in this situation.
387
00:44:36,000 –> 00:44:42,000
And then you said the other thing that we talked about, I know you have 12 of these. We’re probably going to get to four, but I’d like to get to at least four.
388
00:44:43,000 –> 00:44:50,000
Then the second thing you said was the government, well, it was government benefits. And then, and tell us another one.
389
00:44:50,000 –> 00:44:52,000
So it’s off right now.
390
00:44:53,000 –> 00:45:04,000
So 6.001 fails to state a legally-cognizable cause of action because the judge is supposed to be ruling over, you know, has some discretion over your action.
391
00:45:04,000 –> 00:45:11,000
What is the action? In support abilities, a state of mind. This is what’s being, it’s a subjective state of mind.
392
00:45:11,000 –> 00:45:21,000
So I can be sued because my wife or my wife can be sued if I’m the one doing it because I have a subjective state of mind that says things are insupportable.
393
00:45:22,000 –> 00:45:31,000
What did I do to make it insupportable? Give me some facts if there are no facts to adjudicate what I even hear for.
394
00:45:31,000 –> 00:45:37,000
So that’s why the first thing we’re trying to do is dismiss it, a motion to dismiss because there’s no legal cause of action.
395
00:45:37,000 –> 00:45:45,000
But the other thing is, and this is very important, is that this has not become a legislative divorce. It’s a huge separation of powers issue.
396
00:45:46,000 –> 00:45:55,000
The way that the code is written right now, and I’ve had judges tell me this and I’ve got a video on there on my YouTube channel where the judge says, I have to grant a divorce.
397
00:45:56,000 –> 00:45:59,000
And I said, no, you don’t. It says you may know I have to I have to follow the law.
398
00:46:00,000 –> 00:46:08,000
And so he’s telling me I have to grant a divorce. I said if I brought 20 witnesses there, would it make a difference? I don’t know. He has to do it.
399
00:46:08,000 –> 00:46:21,000
So what they’ve done, that the judiciary, which is supposed to have some type of discretion and actually weigh a legitimate legal matter, the legislature has already stated that the divorce will take place.
400
00:46:21,000 –> 00:46:35,000
Now we’re just dividing up the assets and stuff like that. That is called the legislative divorce, Artexas Constitution, Article 3, Section 5613 says that the legislature is forbidden from writing special laws granting divorce.
401
00:46:36,000 –> 00:46:43,000
And that’s a huge separation of powers, issues, Article 2, Section 1 talks about the separation of powers.
402
00:46:43,000 –> 00:46:58,000
The legislature is not allowed to create divorce on demand and that’s what they’ve done. So the special person, the person who is requesting the divorce always wins on the merits.
403
00:46:58,000 –> 00:47:05,000
Simply because he or she says it’s insupportable. There is no defense. You can’t stop it.
404
00:47:06,000 –> 00:47:19,000
If there was no marriage license involved and the two parties had signed or verbally created a covenant only in a church, maybe with a document that was filed.
405
00:47:20,000 –> 00:47:25,000
And there was only that document. There was no family court, no state involvement by a license.
406
00:47:25,000 –> 00:47:30,000
Would it then go to the other person to grant the divorce?
407
00:47:31,000 –> 00:47:38,000
That’s a very interesting question because in Texas we have common law marriages and that’s what they would probably try to put it under the common law marriage.
408
00:47:38,000 –> 00:47:49,000
However, it’s interesting that you asked this question, Joe, because just today somebody sent me an article about a judge up in Colin County and it was too much.
409
00:47:49,000 –> 00:47:56,000
A Muslim lady wanted to divorce her husband, but she had signed a pre-nup, a Muslim pre-nup.
410
00:47:56,000 –> 00:48:02,000
So now the judge said you need to go back to your religious authorities for this. So she wouldn’t grant the divorce.
411
00:48:03,000 –> 00:48:08,000
That creates a very interesting dilemma because I already know what’s going to happen.
412
00:48:08,000 –> 00:48:13,000
Like I said, it’s a missionary to Muslim, so I understand what’s going to happen and what’s going to not happen.
413
00:48:13,000 –> 00:48:18,000
Unless somehow they’ve adopted and have now taken on the whole sexual revolution as well.
414
00:48:18,000 –> 00:48:22,000
But forget what your original question was there.
415
00:48:22,000 –> 00:48:30,000
I was pointing out, and this is something a lot of people don’t recognize, is that when you get married, your marriage license does.
416
00:48:30,000 –> 00:48:30,000
Yeah.
417
00:48:30,000 –> 00:48:35,000
And then you’re going to have to attach you to your spouse and attach the married entity to the state.
418
00:48:35,000 –> 00:48:46,000
So if you get state out of it and the two people getting married then have the only enforceable arrangement is the covenant marriage that they’re doing between them.
419
00:48:46,000 –> 00:48:55,000
And one of them wants to leave, it would it would make logical sense to may biblical under biblical law that it would be the other person that would say, okay, you’re free to go.
420
00:48:55,000 –> 00:49:03,000
You know, you’ve done I, in other words, you go to Fred’s Corinthians 7 again, you’ve done I Christ you’re an unbeliever, you want to go, I will say you can go.
421
00:49:03,000 –> 00:49:15,000
Yeah, and what I would say about this is that this is fraud by the state because I would say that if the state is issuing marriage license, it should tell people this is a temporary marriage license until one person wants to leave.
422
00:49:16,000 –> 00:49:28,000
Because in the body of Christ as a believer, as a pastor, you marry people, if people told you pastor Jennifer pastor Tim, hey, I want you to marry us, we’re going to marry married for two years, and I’m going to get a divorce, would you marry them?
423
00:49:30,000 –> 00:49:35,000
No, no, no, no, no, no, what about five years?
424
00:49:35,000 –> 00:49:39,000
Nope. How about maybe after 11 years?
425
00:49:40,000 –> 00:49:41,000
Till death do you part?
426
00:49:41,000 –> 00:49:51,000
Okay, that is the covenant that we make. The state should have a natural legitimate policy interest to see people stay married.
427
00:49:51,000 –> 00:50:01,000
But when you get married, I believe it’s complete fraud. The marriage license is fraud. By the way, Alabama has done away with the marriage license. Good for Alabama.
428
00:50:02,000 –> 00:50:11,000
But the old time. Yeah, but the thing is, is that if the state is not defending the institution of marriage, it’s fraud.
429
00:50:12,000 –> 00:50:23,000
And I believe that if you’re going to issue the license that you should also have some type of duty to make sure that the people are maintaining, that you just don’t get divorced automatically.
430
00:50:23,000 –> 00:50:30,000
U.S. Constitution mandates that the state defend contractual agreements. That would include covenants.
431
00:50:30,000 –> 00:50:32,000
That would include covenant.
432
00:50:32,000 –> 00:50:40,000
That would rule law. And they have an obligation under under the supreme law of the land, IE the Constitution.
433
00:50:41,000 –> 00:50:47,000
So it’s what the divorce, that’s what the license does. Right. It’s that. That’s why they have the license.
434
00:50:47,000 –> 00:50:52,000
So if you look at Article 1, Section 10 of the U.S. Constitution, it talks about the impairment of contracts.
435
00:50:52,000 –> 00:51:05,000
How that should not impair contracts. And there was a case that went back to 1819. It’s called Woodward Board of Education or something like that versus no board of education Dartmouth Board of Education versus Woodward.
436
00:51:05,000 –> 00:51:15,000
I can’t remember the exact title of it. But basically it argued it argued contract law there. And this was for the contract that was actually created before the United States was formed.
437
00:51:15,000 –> 00:51:30,000
And you know, you cannot impair the obligation of contracts. And now the divorce attorneys will try to say, well, we now have Maynard B. Hirland. And it tells us that marriage is more than a contract. It’s a status. But it’s not less than a contract.
438
00:51:30,000 –> 00:51:37,000
So you’re absolutely right. And also the state of the state, the Constitution say the same things. They shall not impair the obligation of contracts.
439
00:51:37,000 –> 00:51:46,000
Except marriage. This is the abuse of the court system. So here’s it like like let’s give the church some grace because we’re all the church right all this year.
440
00:51:46,000 –> 00:51:58,000
Yeah, you know, the church is sitting back doing church stuff. And these judges and these attorneys are changing the law. It’s we are our our elected representatives aren’t even involved in it.
441
00:51:58,000 –> 00:52:04,000
We don’t know what’s going on. You know, there was no national debate when no fault divorce rolled through the states.
442
00:52:04,000 –> 00:52:30,000
Just like in both ways, the public square. It didn’t happen. Yeah. Yeah. This this was it was a designed social experiment to destroy our country. And if you go back to 1963, look at what was written in the congressional record. They talked about the communist party. I believe was USA read somebody somebody actually read this into the congressional record about one of the things that communism wanted to do was to make the force easy.
443
00:52:30,000 –> 00:52:48,000
Painless. This has been this is look the march through the institutions as Gromsky used to talk about it. It doesn’t take place immediately takes place incrementally and in sheer a foot there. A couple of more inches here until finally we are living in a society that our founders never ever envisioned.
444
00:52:48,000 –> 00:53:02,000
And as far as our protection as people of faith people have got they are non-existent and I shouldn’t say non-existent but when it comes down to marriage forget it. It doesn’t make a difference. Oh that’s nice and convenient of you believe it not little fairy tale.
445
00:53:03,000 –> 00:53:14,000
And by the way the other thing is that I was going to mention Joe so you know freedom of speech and viewpoint discrimination. There was a case this is my personal opinion on this. There was a case back in Massachusetts.
446
00:53:14,000 –> 00:53:25,000
I think it was three years ago called shirt loft versus the city of Boston. And it went to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court ruled 9 to nothing in favor of shirt loft. What was the issue?
447
00:53:26,000 –> 00:53:38,000
The issue was that shirt loft wanted to fly a Christian flag over the city of Boston. And the city of Boston denied it because we can’t have this religious symbolism on our flying over the city of Boston.
448
00:53:38,000 –> 00:53:56,000
Now they had flown I think over 270 flags including LGBTQ flags and everything else. And so they sued and they went to the Supreme Court. And the Supreme Court said this was religious viewpoint discrimination that they exercised against these people simply based on the Christian imagery of a flag.
449
00:53:57,000 –> 00:54:07,000
And what does the Bible say about our marriage? Our marriage is the not just a symbolism. I mean the mystery is great of Christ and his church.
450
00:54:08,000 –> 00:54:21,000
And so but again as soon as somebody says insupportable it doesn’t make a difference what defense I give that is a predetermined outcome. It’s going to be done. It’s viewpoint discrimination against me. It’s against my religion as well.
451
00:54:21,000 –> 00:54:28,000
So that’s another issue that we’ve raised. Like said we have 11 arguments here. We probably could have added more but these ones here.
452
00:54:28,000 –> 00:54:30,000
The strongest one because we’re getting close to finishing up. I think.
453
00:54:31,000 –> 00:54:37,000
Yeah, we have a question or two to try and get out because you’ve been so interesting but yeah.
454
00:54:37,000 –> 00:54:42,000
I don’t know which is the strongest one because I’ve talked with a number of people and they’re like this is the strongest one.
455
00:54:42,000 –> 00:54:48,000
This is stronger. No new process of the strongest one equal protection is strongest one because two people come to the same.
456
00:54:48,000 –> 00:55:01,000
You know for the same marriage they should have equal protection but they don’t because the the plant the the one who’s playing the plaintiff or the petitioner will always be payment.
457
00:55:01,000 –> 00:55:05,000
So where’s the equal protection for me as a respondent there is none.
458
00:55:05,000 –> 00:55:16,000
But but I said we have 11 of these arguments and by the way I put out a couple of videos. I’m going to be putting down some more trying to go in each of these individual arguments into some degree.
459
00:55:16,000 –> 00:55:17,000
That way I’ll help you.
460
00:55:17,000 –> 00:55:22,000
I’ll put them on the on the website.
461
00:55:22,000 –> 00:55:23,000
Absolutely.
462
00:55:24,000 –> 00:55:28,000
If people want to go grab the links from there they’ll be there.
463
00:55:30,000 –> 00:55:34,000
Pastor Jeff, Pastor Tim what questions do you guys have? I know Jeff’s brought out a lot of stuff.
464
00:55:34,000 –> 00:55:39,000
What do you think people in our our church are thinking right now if they got through the whole thing?
465
00:55:40,000 –> 00:55:42,000
Probably a more practical question.
466
00:55:42,000 –> 00:55:51,000
What can we at the local level say an parishioner in New Jersey do to support marriages in the church and you know in the state?
467
00:55:51,000 –> 00:55:55,000
So the first thing I would say is that you need to start preaching the divorce as a sin.
468
00:55:55,000 –> 00:55:58,000
That there is no way you know I talked with one pastor.
469
00:55:59,000 –> 00:56:05,000
In fact I go to a church right now because it’s a Protestant church and you know Catholics believe that marriage is a sacrament of God.
470
00:56:05,000 –> 00:56:09,000
And I’m like why are the Protestants? Why don’t the Protestants say this? I finally found a Protestant church.
471
00:56:09,000 –> 00:56:14,000
It says there are three sacraments. There’s baptism. There’s a Lord’s Supper and this marriage.
472
00:56:14,000 –> 00:56:20,000
And that’s what I believe. Marriage is a sacrament. It’s a grace given to us from God. It also represents everything.
473
00:56:20,000 –> 00:56:23,000
And I think we need to be talking about what exactly marriage is.
474
00:56:24,000 –> 00:56:32,000
And God’s world is 100% against the force. We talked with one guy and he said, I already know I can pray with certainly 100% the force is not in the will of God.
475
00:56:32,000 –> 00:56:39,000
And we need to be actually defending marriage. And looking at things like, well, you know what?
476
00:56:39,000 –> 00:56:43,000
Maybe she’s just having a problem. Maybe he’s having a problem. Brother or sister, it’s sin.
477
00:56:44,000 –> 00:56:49,000
How do you deal with sin? Repentance. Faith and Christ. Look into the Holy Spirit.
478
00:56:49,000 –> 00:56:55,000
And perhaps having people around, having people to help work through it. But divorce has to be thrown out.
479
00:56:55,000 –> 00:57:01,000
And they even say about counselors. If a counselor has any thought that maybe divorce will be a solution, run.
480
00:57:02,000 –> 00:57:11,000
Don’t stay there, run away from that because that will seek through. And as a pastor, Pastor Jeff, Pastor Tim, you must be strong on marriage.
481
00:57:11,000 –> 00:57:17,000
And we have already redefined marriage because I’ve said marriage is till death to you park.
482
00:57:17,000 –> 00:57:23,000
We have redefined marriage by saying marriage can be temporary because we allowed the divorce so easily.
483
00:57:24,000 –> 00:57:29,000
But we would allow for the exceptions in the case of adultery and abandonment.
484
00:57:29,000 –> 00:57:39,000
So what I would say is yes, but I would also say that because those are scriptural exceptions. And yes, we have something we have to teach be very compassionate with.
485
00:57:40,000 –> 00:57:43,000
But at the same time and you’re going to get people are going to say no, no, there’s no exception.
486
00:57:43,000 –> 00:57:52,000
Okay, you know what? That’s an issue that I’m going to let other people discuss a little bit more. But but I will say that divorce does not need to be automatic.
487
00:57:52,000 –> 00:58:04,000
Because I’ve known people that have been divorced and remarried and divorced and remarried and then we and divorced and and remarried again to each other three times.
488
00:58:04,000 –> 00:58:07,000
And they’ve claimed its supportability.
489
00:58:07,000 –> 00:58:17,000
Jeff, don’t you think that the problem is that we don’t have a specifically Christian marriage and divorce is part of marriage.
490
00:58:18,000 –> 00:58:20,000
So we also don’t have a specific agreement.
491
00:58:20,000 –> 00:58:20,000
492
00:58:21,000 –> 00:58:32,000
Also, we, if, if, like Jeff was saying, so if the, you know, we should allow for sexual morality and abandonment, because that’s biblical.
493
00:58:33,000 –> 00:58:38,000
But we need a Christian marriage, not a, not a, a burger fell marriage.
494
00:58:38,000 –> 00:58:47,000
And, and, and we should, one of the problems with Christianity is we’re so old that we can’t, we don’t have any copyrights on anything.
495
00:58:48,000 –> 00:58:49,000
People stealing our words.
496
00:58:49,000 –> 00:58:55,000
So this, this gets into another area that I don’t think it’ll be time to get into right now, but you’re, you’re absolutely right about that.
497
00:58:55,000 –> 00:59:02,000
But I will also say to you that we need to have a Christian mindset because we are being transformed by the world and not transforming the world.
498
00:59:02,000 –> 00:59:03,000
That’s the problem.
499
00:59:04,000 –> 00:59:12,000
And then when we talk about what’s happening to children of divorce, if you have a church filled with broken families, how are you going to have a strong church?
500
00:59:13,000 –> 00:59:17,000
You know, and, and, and the, the, the results of the divorce are transgenerational.
501
00:59:17,000 –> 00:59:21,000
It’s not just your children, but your grandchildren that will be impacted by this.
502
00:59:22,000 –> 00:59:29,000
Divorce people, kids of divorce, tend to divorce more frequently by a large number than those who come from solid families.
503
00:59:29,000 –> 00:59:31,000
And divorce does not even mention.
504
00:59:31,000 –> 00:59:39,000
So it may not impact you personally, but what happens if your son or daughter marries a divorced person?
505
00:59:39,000 –> 00:59:41,000
And they’re all screwed up.
506
00:59:41,000 –> 00:59:43,000
And then it will impact you as well.
507
00:59:43,000 –> 00:59:45,000
It’s going to, it may impact you that you cannot see your grandchildren.
508
00:59:46,000 –> 00:59:48,000
So I mean, we have to address this.
509
00:59:48,000 –> 00:59:50,000
This should be an all out war.
510
00:59:51,000 –> 00:59:54,000
Family was the first institution even before the church.
511
00:59:54,000 –> 00:59:56,000
If you look chronologically in Genesis.
512
00:59:58,000 –> 00:59:59,000
And marriage is important.
513
00:59:59,000 –> 01:00:01,000
God performed the first marriage.
514
01:00:01,000 –> 01:00:05,000
Jesus performed his first miracle at the wedding of Canaan, Galilee.
515
01:00:05,000 –> 01:00:06,000
What’s the last event of the Bible?
516
01:00:07,000 –> 01:00:08,000
The marriage, suffer of the Lamb.
517
01:00:09,000 –> 01:00:10,000
Amen.
518
01:00:11,000 –> 01:00:13,000
We can’t let people redefine that.
519
01:00:13,000 –> 01:00:13,000
Yeah.
520
01:00:14,000 –> 01:00:15,000
Sound.
521
01:00:16,000 –> 01:00:16,000
That’s awesome.
522
01:00:17,000 –> 01:00:17,000
Good.
523
01:00:17,000 –> 01:00:23,000
How much better would it be for all people everywhere if we just tried to do what the Lord said in his word?
524
01:00:24,000 –> 01:00:26,000
How much better would it be?
525
01:00:26,000 –> 01:00:30,000
I remember reading about revivals like the Welsh Revival under Evan Roberts.
526
01:00:30,000 –> 01:00:33,000
And they were saying that, you know, the police didn’t even have any work to do.
527
01:00:33,000 –> 01:00:37,000
So they started to form police quartets and they would sing.
528
01:00:37,000 –> 01:00:44,000
Now, the only downside was from what I read is that the miners who got converted no longer swore in curse.
529
01:00:44,000 –> 01:00:50,000
And the docks did not know how to obey them because the only thing the theory responded to was cursing and swearing and stuff like that.
530
01:00:51,000 –> 01:00:52,000
So that might be the only downside.
531
01:00:53,000 –> 01:00:54,000
But can you imagine?
532
01:00:55,000 –> 01:00:59,000
I grew up in a place where we kept our doors open at night.
533
01:00:59,000 –> 01:01:00,000
I would not do that here.
534
01:01:01,000 –> 01:01:02,000
That is so important.
535
01:01:02,000 –> 01:01:02,000
And we got it.
536
01:01:02,000 –> 01:01:07,000
When we were witnessing the people and we were witnessing the pagans and you say, you know why we got so many cops?
537
01:01:07,000 –> 01:01:08,000
You know, remember, defund the police?
538
01:01:08,000 –> 01:01:10,000
Well, you can’t defund the police because we got too much sin.
539
01:01:11,000 –> 01:01:11,000
Yeah.
540
01:01:11,000 –> 01:01:13,000
We’re less sin if people were obeying God.
541
01:01:13,000 –> 01:01:14,000
We wouldn’t need all these police.
542
01:01:15,000 –> 01:01:15,000
Yeah.
543
01:01:15,000 –> 01:01:15,000
Yeah.
544
01:01:16,000 –> 01:01:16,000
Yeah.
545
01:01:17,000 –> 01:01:19,000
And you know, like this whole thing with the transgender movement and stuff like that.
546
01:01:20,000 –> 01:01:26,000
What’s happening is, I think, is that a child is being formed with half an identity a lot of times due to divorce.
547
01:01:26,000 –> 01:01:28,000
So they don’t know their whole identity.
548
01:01:28,000 –> 01:01:32,000
And it makes it much easier to slide along the end of the spectrum.
549
01:01:32,000 –> 01:01:40,000
If you have a strong family, and I’m not saying 100%, but I’m just saying if you have a strong family, a boy is a boy, a girl is a girl, a husband is a husband.
550
01:01:40,000 –> 01:01:41,000
And wife is a wife.
551
01:01:41,000 –> 01:01:42,000
They have different roles.
552
01:01:43,000 –> 01:01:44,000
They learn this stuff.
553
01:01:44,000 –> 01:01:51,000
When you have a situation where you’re having kids brought up with single parents or, you know, like no family whatsoever.
554
01:01:51,000 –> 01:01:57,000
Because the other thing about family formation, not just family destruction, but families are never formed.
555
01:01:57,000 –> 01:01:59,000
The impact of this is huge.
556
01:01:59,000 –> 01:02:02,000
And we as the church should be leading the charge.
557
01:02:02,000 –> 01:02:08,000
I’ll tell you what, I wish at every single church, every past to what they look, we’re going to petition on legislator.
558
01:02:08,000 –> 01:02:10,000
We’re going to get other people around them.
559
01:02:10,000 –> 01:02:11,000
They cannot stop us.
560
01:02:12,000 –> 01:02:15,000
Because if the church were to after this, the church, well, we don’t want to be involved in politics.
561
01:02:15,000 –> 01:02:18,000
I’m sorry, but you’re involved in politics by default.
562
01:02:18,000 –> 01:02:21,000
You get in there and start to say, this is wrong.
563
01:02:21,000 –> 01:02:25,000
This is, you know, you and have solutions and have ways.
564
01:02:25,000 –> 01:02:31,000
I mean, I’ve looked enough said if churches are allowing divorce so easily, maybe they should lose a tax status.
565
01:02:32,000 –> 01:02:34,000
You’re going to have a church book.
566
01:02:35,000 –> 01:02:35,000
567
01:02:35,000 –> 01:02:36,000
Hey, I don’t, I’ll get that.
568
01:02:36,000 –> 01:02:37,000
Thank you.
569
01:02:37,000 –> 01:02:39,000
No, no, I’m going to send you a copy.
570
01:02:39,000 –> 01:02:39,000
Okay.
571
01:02:40,000 –> 01:02:42,000
This is just book, Bloodred Church.
572
01:02:43,000 –> 01:02:45,000
And he explains the problem with the great church and the blue church.
573
01:02:45,000 –> 01:02:51,000
And the red church needs to go out and start converting other Christians is what has to happen.
574
01:02:51,000 –> 01:02:54,000
Other people who claim the name of Christ, but don’t obey his word.
575
01:02:55,000 –> 01:02:55,000
Right.
576
01:02:55,000 –> 01:02:56,000
Don’t love him.
577
01:02:56,000 –> 01:02:56,000
Right.
578
01:02:56,000 –> 01:02:58,000
The way he said, define love.
579
01:02:58,000 –> 01:03:01,000
So he’s got this bloodred church and you’ll love this.
580
01:03:01,000 –> 01:03:02,000
Oh, I will.
581
01:03:02,000 –> 01:03:03,000
You said the right words.
582
01:03:03,000 –> 01:03:03,000
They’re magic words.
583
01:03:03,000 –> 01:03:05,000
I also, I had this out for you earlier.
584
01:03:05,000 –> 01:03:06,000
Okay.
585
01:03:06,000 –> 01:03:06,000
Gotcha.
586
01:03:07,000 –> 01:03:10,000
But Jeff, thank you so much.
587
01:03:10,000 –> 01:03:15,000
We’d love for you to come back and just tell us all about, you know, what’s going on?
588
01:03:15,000 –> 01:03:18,000
Is this going to be a marathon on a sprint?
589
01:03:19,000 –> 01:03:19,000
I’m thinking.
590
01:03:20,000 –> 01:03:28,000
And please, I mean, I say this and just pray for us because, you know, I guess that I’m chosen to be the person.
591
01:03:28,000 –> 01:03:33,000
I mean, Joe, I’ve told you that I felt like I’m and I’m not trying to get here myself to Christ.
592
01:03:34,000 –> 01:03:37,000
But remember, Christ and the garden said, Father, but you will take this cup from me.
593
01:03:38,000 –> 01:03:42,000
But if not, let you will, but not, but not, not my will, but yours be done.
594
01:03:42,000 –> 01:03:45,000
And I want to see God do something so great.
595
01:03:45,000 –> 01:03:47,000
He knocks off notes, fought the force.
596
01:03:47,000 –> 01:03:52,000
My wife and I are have this wonderful marriage that people can say, wow, look at what happened.
597
01:03:52,000 –> 01:03:53,000
They almost got the worst.
598
01:03:54,000 –> 01:03:55,000
And look at what God’s done with them.
599
01:03:55,000 –> 01:04:02,000
And then I want to, and then my, you know, my wife’s son, very, and this is one of the things people don’t talk about you.
600
01:04:02,000 –> 01:04:08,000
And you have special needs, kids are when you have autoimmune diseases, fibromyalgia, my wife has fibromyalgia.
601
01:04:08,000 –> 01:04:12,000
And they have special support groups just for that to help people through that.
602
01:04:12,000 –> 01:04:14,000
And I would love to be out there on the front line.
603
01:04:14,000 –> 01:04:21,000
If I’m going to go get involved with another battle, not that I’m necessarily wanting this on my own, but I’m going to get another battle.
604
01:04:21,000 –> 01:04:28,000
Let’s take on the entire thing because we do not know how to respond to people with these great needs.
605
01:04:29,000 –> 01:04:31,000
And we often mischaracterize things.
606
01:04:32,000 –> 01:04:36,000
And we cause more suffering and we inflict more pain than what can be imagined.
607
01:04:37,000 –> 01:04:42,000
And so like I said, like I tell everybody, please just pray, pray, pray, pray.
608
01:04:42,000 –> 01:04:46,000
And I appreciate your prayers and Joe, again, thank you.
609
01:04:46,000 –> 01:04:50,000
Sorry, I wasn’t expecting this, but you know,
610
01:04:50,000 –> 01:04:52,000
when you ask me, that’s what happens.
611
01:04:52,000 –> 01:04:54,000
You know, it’s awesome.
612
01:04:54,000 –> 01:04:57,000
And the worst that can happen to you is you go home to the Lord, right?
613
01:04:57,000 –> 01:04:58,000
So you’re going to keep fighting.
614
01:04:58,000 –> 01:05:03,000
And I know you will because you know, you see what we don’t know what God will do.
615
01:05:03,000 –> 01:05:07,000
Maybe maybe you’re not, maybe you’re not going to break through this.
616
01:05:07,000 –> 01:05:10,000
But maybe you push it for enough that somebody else can.
617
01:05:10,000 –> 01:05:11,000
Right, right.
618
01:05:12,000 –> 01:05:14,000
You know, you just keep plugging brother.
619
01:05:15,000 –> 01:05:18,000
John Newton fought slavery his whole life.
620
01:05:18,000 –> 01:05:20,000
And then he handed it off to William Wilberforce.
621
01:05:20,000 –> 01:05:25,000
In 1807, he did see the abolition of the slave trade.
622
01:05:25,000 –> 01:05:25,000
Yes.
623
01:05:26,000 –> 01:05:27,000
The Atlantic.
624
01:05:27,000 –> 01:05:30,000
It still took another generation for it to come to an end altogether.
625
01:05:31,000 –> 01:05:33,000
Let’s bring no fault divorce down.
626
01:05:34,000 –> 01:05:35,000
Yeah, and that movie, Amazing Grace.
627
01:05:36,000 –> 01:05:39,000
I remember when they asked Wilber, you know, can’t you use your voice?
628
01:05:39,000 –> 01:05:43,000
You know, you’re going to just use your voice to praise God instead of being a voice.
629
01:05:43,000 –> 01:05:44,000
We have both.
630
01:05:44,000 –> 01:05:46,000
We should be praising God.
631
01:05:46,000 –> 01:05:48,000
We should, you know, I’m not a good singer.
632
01:05:48,000 –> 01:05:49,000
I think by myself, right?
633
01:05:50,000 –> 01:05:56,000
But we should be able to use our voice to take down evil, to expose evil, to preach righteousness,
634
01:05:56,000 –> 01:05:57,000
and to praise God.
635
01:05:57,000 –> 01:05:59,000
These are not mutually exclusive activities.
636
01:05:59,000 –> 01:06:01,000
And if you can’t join, you can pray.
637
01:06:01,000 –> 01:06:02,000
We need intercessors.
638
01:06:03,000 –> 01:06:04,000
I mean, we need the church of God.
639
01:06:05,000 –> 01:06:09,000
And right now, I really believe Joe, when we’ve talked about this, I think that we have an opportunity.
640
01:06:09,000 –> 01:06:12,000
I don’t know that we need an opportunity again in the future.
641
01:06:12,000 –> 01:06:15,000
But I mean, I know, Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson.
642
01:06:15,000 –> 01:06:17,000
I’ve spoken with him about no fault before us.
643
01:06:17,000 –> 01:06:17,000
He hates it.
644
01:06:17,000 –> 01:06:18,000
He’s a product of it.
645
01:06:19,000 –> 01:06:21,000
He and his wife Kelly have a covenant marriage.
646
01:06:21,000 –> 01:06:23,000
I know JD Vance is against no fault, the voice.
647
01:06:23,000 –> 01:06:25,000
We’ve talked with Ben Carson against no fault, the voice.
648
01:06:25,000 –> 01:06:27,000
We have legislators, Dusty Divers at Oklahoma.
649
01:06:27,000 –> 01:06:29,000
He’s trying to get rid of it.
650
01:06:29,000 –> 01:06:30,000
Tony Randolph, I’ve been South Dakota.
651
01:06:30,000 –> 01:06:32,000
There’s another gentleman up in Indiana.
652
01:06:33,000 –> 01:06:34,000
We had Matt Kross working here.
653
01:06:34,000 –> 01:06:35,000
This is a big issue.
654
01:06:35,000 –> 01:06:40,000
And right now, what’s happening is we’re seeing more and more and more people talking about how evil this is.
655
01:06:40,000 –> 01:06:42,000
It’s how destructive this is.
656
01:06:43,000 –> 01:06:47,000
And I mean, I’ve had people don’t even know me that says you’re doing the work of God.
657
01:06:48,000 –> 01:06:52,000
And, you know, I know you guys are doing the work of God within the churches and everything.
658
01:06:52,000 –> 01:06:59,000
I didn’t expect to be have people who may not even be Christians telling me you’re doing the work of God right now.
659
01:06:59,000 –> 01:07:02,000
So that’s all I can say.
660
01:07:03,000 –> 01:07:05,000
Thank God for you, brother.
661
01:07:06,000 –> 01:07:06,000
Stay in the fight.
662
01:07:06,000 –> 01:07:07,000
You’re a fellow soldier.
663
01:07:08,000 –> 01:07:10,000
And you are supported in prayer.
664
01:07:10,000 –> 01:07:11,000
We love you, brother.
665
01:07:11,000 –> 01:07:12,000
We’re with you.
666
01:07:12,000 –> 01:07:13,000
Thank you so much.
667
01:07:13,000 –> 01:07:15,000
Put us on every prayer chain every list that you can.
668
01:07:16,000 –> 01:07:18,000
We will.
669
01:07:18,000 –> 01:07:19,000
All right, guys.
670
01:07:20,000 –> 01:07:24,000
If you guys got any other questions for Jeff before we tear it down.
671
01:07:24,000 –> 01:07:25,000
tear it down.
672
01:07:26,000 –> 01:07:27,000
Right.
673
01:07:28,000 –> 01:07:30,000
This is what we do, Jeff.
674
01:07:30,000 –> 01:07:33,000
If you haven’t made it to the end of one of our episodes, we got a whole thing we do.
675
01:07:34,000 –> 01:07:36,000
First we lift a brother up and then we tear a high place down.
676
01:07:36,000 –> 01:07:37,000
So good.
677
01:07:37,000 –> 01:07:37,000
Okay.
678
01:07:38,000 –> 01:07:39,000
When you’re ready.
679
01:07:39,000 –> 01:07:41,000
Oh, sorry.
680
01:07:42,000 –> 01:07:42,000
I did it wrong.
681
01:07:42,000 –> 01:07:46,000
If you see a brother down, lift him up.
682
01:07:47,000 –> 01:07:47,000
Okay.
683
01:07:47,000 –> 01:07:48,000
Okay.
684
01:07:48,000 –> 01:07:49,000
tear it down.
685
01:07:50,000 –> 01:07:50,000
All right.
686
01:07:50,000 –> 01:07:51,000
Okay.
687
01:07:52,000 –> 01:07:52,000
688
01:07:52,000 –> 01:07:52,000
