Telco Tech Talks with Anna & Varun

In our second podcast episode, Kearney partners Anna Kraft and Varun Arora talk to Thomas Chevanne, Head of M&A at Ooredoo Group.

Presented by: Kearney
Hosts: Anna & Varun

Transcript: 

Anna Kraft : Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Today we're really excited to have Thomas Chevaane, who is the current head of M&A at the Oreedoo Group. Oreedoo is one of the largest telecommunications companies in the Middle East and Northern Africa. Prior to this role, he was the Chief Strategy Officer at Indosat, and he's been a global board member of MEF. Welcome Thomas.

Thomas Chevanne : Thank you. Happy to be here.

Anna Kraft : Great, thank you. Thomas, we start each episode with the guests sharing a bit about themselves. Can you share a few highlights on your career and what you're passionate about in tech and telco?

Thomas Chevanne : Yes, so I've been in this exciting industry for 20 years. I'm from France, but I've lived and worked in almost 10 different countries in the Middle East, North Africa, and Asia. My first job ever was actually to create a startup company. And after that, I worked in consulting and also creating my own consulting company. And I was really part of this growth phase of the industry. I worked on launching five different telecom and media companies in different countries in the Middle East, North Africa and Asia. And after that I joined Oreedoo, where I became the Chief Strategy Officer of INDOSAT, our largest subsidiary in Indonesia, and then came back to the group to lead M&A at the group level across all of our footprint.

Varun Arora : Thomas, you mentioned Oreedoo and different markets and we've seen Oreedoo's journey has been a lot of acquisitions and bringing several companies together across the world. How have you got many of these companies to work together?

Thomas Chevanne : Yeah, we're very proud and happy of what we have achieved. Especially lately, you know, we've seen a very good result this year. I think as M&A, you know, it always teaches you to look at how do you fundamentally create value in a business. as opposed to a lot of activities that people spend a lot of time on, but maybe are not really adding to the bottom line at the end that's kind of one of the key recipes here is focus on a few key strategic themes and strategic projects and really let the operations kind of run the day to day with people who are closest to each market, each market being, of course, extremely different, you know, between Indonesia, Myanmar, Iraq, Algeria, Tunisia to Qatar and Kuwait.

Anna Kraft : So continuing on that theme, Thomas, where do you see the future of telecommunications companies? Where will the growth come from? What services do customers want? And where do you think telcos are best positioned to win?

Thomas Chevanne : Yeah, I think telecom companies are increasingly relevant. You know, every individual, every business, every government, needs more and more the services we provide. What we see in this part of the world is businesses going to the cloud, individuals and consumer demanding more advanced media, games, higher quality videos, real time interactions, social media. and governments also, which is a very important driver in this part of the world, driving digital transformation in each country. So I think we see telecom companies really as a key enabler of all of this transformation, in particular with services such as IoT. We see a lot of businesses and partners. asking us for solutions to enable that. We see a lot of growth being revered by AI, obviously, which is driving a bigger demand for all the data that you need to process for these businesses and this transformation as well.

Anna Kraft : Thomas, I come from a market in the Americas where, you know, business on the enterprise side, telcos, pretty much all of the major telcos are seeing a decline in revenues. So what lessons have you learned from telcos in more mature markets? What things do you think you would take away and like what things maybe you wouldn't do?

Thomas Chevanne : It's an interesting question. There are things that are being done in emerging markets that can be an inspiration for telcos in more mature markets. The way for example mobile financial services opportunities have been captured or the way we've had to operate and turn a profit on markets where you have three dollar ARPU as well and the way we look at the certain cost items as well. When we look at more natural markets, one of the key lessons learned I would say the need for scale in each of the market in which we operate. And certainly our strategy is to try everywhere we operate to try and be number one or number two. And this is why we've seen the benefit of that in Indonesia, for example, where we've done this merger last year to create a strong number two with 100 million customers. And we really see the benefit of that scale on a local basis. And I think it's something a lot of telcos in market have seen as well, as to how everywhere you operate, you need to be in a, we say, strong or dominant position in each of the individual countries. One of the other things we see is all the different ways in which we can share the burden of investment and be more focused on where we need to invest. And I think there's been a lot of reconfiguration of telecom industry into having telecom operators separate from DC companies, tower companies, fiber codes in some markets, doing increasingly partnerships to share investments. And I think that's definitely something we have embraced in terms of having different investment models, being somewhat sometimes done in-house, sometimes done within a spin-off, sometimes done through a partnership model as well.

Varun Arora : Thomas, it's interesting you talk about learning from emerging markets and separating out the infrastructure companies and the digital services company. It's interesting that we hear a lot about this telco to techco transition in Asian markets, but we don't hear a lot of that in mature European or US markets. What do you think is the driver of that, especially in emerging markets?

Thomas Chevanne : Yeah, I think to enable that transition, we need to be not a competitor but a partner for a lot of these digital companie. It's something Telcos have known for a while, but have struggled to kind of really put into action. I think being kind of a digital ready partner for this type of company is something that is a very big focus. Part of it also when you ask the difference between market in this region and the different markets in which we operate. I think there is something around the mindset as well. I think we need to keep this growth mindset. Of course, cost efficiency is very important, but if you don't look for this additional pocket of value and you give up on growth, you will not create value ultimately.

Varun Arora : You know, I remember 2017, 18, a lot of big telcos were offloading the data centers. They thought it's not core business. And now we're seeing a lot of interest back in it again. Has something changed fundamentally on the infrastructure side?

Thomas Chevanne : Yeah, I think it really depends on what is the situation in each of the markets. Certainly for us, we see it as a significant investment opportunity. We want to drive increased focus to capture the opportunity and we want to invest up to $1 billion into this opportunity, actually. And in our existing markets, we already have 60% or so market share. I think it's a function really of having the right focus because we recognize it's a very different business from the day-to-day telco business. So we need to have a dedicated team, dedicated company, different mindset and being open to partner. But in our part of the world, definitely we see it as a big growth opportunity, especially given, as I was saying, the move of businesses to the cloud.

Anna Kraft : So, speaking of new opportunities, like how to use AI in our job and how to use AI for our clients. So we decided that we would try something new in our podcast and ask chat GPT what question we should ask you. Thomas. So are you ready for your chat GPT

Thomas Chevanne : Yeah,

Anna Kraft : question? Yeah,

Thomas Chevanne : Go ahead. That's a very good idea.

Anna Kraft : Can you talk more about Oreedoo strategy to transition from a network centric to a service and customer experience centric operating model?

Thomas Chevanne : Thank you, that's a very good question. I think the key to that transition, is really about starting from... the customer needs and not from what we know about the network just to give a specific example, I think we try to move away from things around advertising and focusing on headlight speeds for customers because we notice this is not something that makes such a big difference to them actually. What they really want is a consistent service that allows them to do what they do on a daily basis, for example, watching YouTube videos without buffering. So I think the way we drive the business and even internally and the KPIs and the design is very much around starting from the customer need more than starting from the technology which I think historically has been the way telecoms have driven these things.

Anna Kraft : So one of the things that we've heard from our other Middle East partners too is that the Middle East telcos are facing a shortage of specialist talent. What is telcos role in helping to regenerate that talent base and where are you getting the talent from to rethink? your operating model.

Thomas Chevanne : Yeah, I think it's definitely a challenge for a lot of businesses, including for Teleco for sure. In the region, I think there is a lot of focus, including from the governments, on talent development and education, but clearly it is a challenge. I think for sure we have to make ourselves more attractive, and one of the ways we're doing this is how we change our culture, even things around like working from home and training and how we look at these things. So I think we try to be... much closer to the need of the job market today. So I would say how challenging it has been to attract and retain talent also has created, in a sense, an opportunity for us to get that message across and drive some of the change of culture. processes and habits that you know we wanted to drive anywhere and now we are we are really pushing this work. It's really something that can be an opportunity actually for us to drive with Kench.

Varun Arora : Do you want to talk of an example about a partnership because you talked about ecosystems and how developers can tie up with external players?

Thomas Chevanne : Yeah, so as operator, we know that to stay relevant, we have to build an ecosystem around us. We've done that in many areas. In fact, we have a dedicated team to do that, and we've done that with Microsoft on joint cloud go-to-market google on APG, car companies on IoT and other things. The key thing that we try to focus on is how as Telco, we organize ourselves to be faster and more agile as a partner. and how we kind of scale that up right and do that almost on an industrial basis and We have something like 250 partners now working with us and you present something like 20% of our cash flow So our colleagues in this area are doing a great job and I think it's really as a mention no matter of our focus and being very clear also that We're not trying to compete in this area, we're trying to be an enabler of partners.

Varun Arora : That's right. And, you know, we saw the Open Gateway Initiative where the three of the big seven or big four techs came together with Telcos. So in the Middle East itself, where do you see the digital progression five years from now? And how do you contrast it with Asia Pacific or Indonesia where you've also spent some time?

Thomas Chevanne : Yeah, I think first in terms of the way I would say international investors and people look at the region, I think definitely there's a shift. You know, we see more and more interest to invest into this region. Of course, the the growth in the region has been, you know, has been a key driver of that, specifically for Qatar. I think the World Cup has also been a fantastic showcase of what this country can do as well as really put it even more in the in the spotlight. Definitely now I see that coming into the Middle East. I think what I see in this region is really this transformation of businesses and governments into really going into the cloud. Certainly, I think the regulation, the government, are kind of understanding the need to enable that. And we see a lot of positive drive and so on from the governments as well. So I see that really catching up into digitalization drivers to the cloud coming into this region as well.

Anna Kraft : So one of the things that you talked about earlier is culture change and you mentioned the bringing the World Cup in and what that changed. Like what's Oradu's role and like how do you think about partnering with some of these big, international events to drive growth in the business, change the way people think about telcos.

Thomas Chevanne : Yeah, thanks. I have to say the World Cup was an absolutely amazing experience. For me personally, as a French person even more, but I think for everyone here and everyone who came here, I think I was personally super impressed by what the country has done and frankly what my whole radio has done. I think when we did the opening ceremony, there was more traffic than during the Super Bowl, for example, in the US. It was like the first 5G World Cup. And it was quite amazing because actually for the... users, you know, you're going to a stage where they really expect that now when they go to an event. It's kind of a key part of the experience, you know, they, everyone expects if you go to a, to an event that you can stream it live, they can, you can go on Instagram and, and I would say even many people don't even expect that they have to go on Wi-Fi, they expect to do it on their 4G or 5G network. So I think anyone who thinks around events now has to think along this line as well as to, you know, how we, what's the digital experience on this, on this event. for the public, even for sponsors and businesses and everyone around it. And I have to say, obviously it was a very high pressure environment for my colleagues in Qatar and for our technology team, but frankly it was very, very impressive what the team has achieved there.

Anna Kraft : So I have another question when you look at the markets that Oradu serves, they're so different, right? How do you balance the needs of those like really varying markets and like? Do you try to provide a consistent service across the markets? And anyway, I wonder about that. How do you think about that? The markets are so different.

Thomas Chevanne : It's quite a unique viewpoint on the industry. You can't imagine something more diverse than from the Gulf, Qatar, Kuwait, Oman to Indonesia or Myanmar for sure. I think there are a few things that have to be consistent. There are a few things where we really have to adapt to the markets. The core strategy about, like I say, the need for scale, the need to differentiate the investment model for different parts of the business. the need to be a key partner enabler. So some of the core strategy pillars, have to be the same. But when it comes to kind of the execution of that, and how do you design networks, how do you price offers, how do you design services, of course, you have to do that from the market and you have to be as close as possible to each of the market. And that's why I mentioned when you start from the customer needs, then you will just intuitively do that because the customer needs are different. The priorities are different when you are in the countryside and you need reliable connections to do basic services or you are in a market like Qatar where it's the first commercial 5G network in the world, and so you have a completely different expectation of service. So I think we really have to adapt the execution, but with a consistent core strategy.

Varun Arora : Thomas, last question from me. And I'm reading a book around Africa right now. And I'm seeing that this variety in development. In fact, Singapore's prime minister was in Africa just earlier this week. Do you see 5G impacting Africa in the next few years? Or is it more marketing?

Thomas Chevanne : Yeah, I think when we look at customer needs, I think we should not look at it from starting with the technology, customers and businesses, they need connectivity and they need additional services on top of it, right? And the best way to provide it can be through fiber, can be through 5G, can be through 4G. I think I still go sometimes, we are a bit too focused on each of the G as opposed to the specific need of the... of the customers. So I think it's really, really end-to-end. You need to look at what other customer needs in each of the markets and how do you enable that being through 4G, 5G, tomorrow 6G, or fiber or any other technology that suits their need best, rather than starting from the technology.

Anna Kraft : One more question for me Thomas that you made me think about when you were just talking about that and I was thinking about earlier Being from France and you talked about scale being important so What advice would you give to the European telcos to help drive scale so that they can better invest in their networks?

Thomas Chevanne : I think when you are used to working environments where the cost pressure is much higher and the output is much lower, I think sometimes you can be much more creative on how to be cost efficient. Certainly when I was in Indonesia, I think the way some of these operators are able to turn a profit on very, very low outputs is something that... you could look at re-engineering a bit the way we do things in more mature markets actually, kind of like a zero cost approach. I think the other thing is what I saw is about in these very large scale markets, how do you enable automation more, right? And I think when you have a larger customer base, the business case for you is even easier. So I think you're looking at automation a bit in a different way as well. And I think there are things there also that probably people in sometimes natural markets could learn from us.

Anna Kraft : Yeah, I totally agree. I do. I do. Sometimes, that's a challenge I have with my clients here in the US today it's hard for them to take lessons from emerging markets because they're a bit too wrapped up in the problems that have been and the weight that they carry from the legacy networks that they have.

Thomas Chevanne : Yeah.

Anna Kraft : So... Thomas, we like to wrap up each episode with five questions. We ask everyone the same question, the same five questions. So are you ready for that? Okay, so first one, what motivates you?

Thomas Chevanne : having an impact.

Anna Kraft : What do you like to do when you're not at work?

Thomas Chevanne : I spend time with my 11 and 13 year old daughters and the outdoor, hiking, diving, climbing, mountaineering, paragliding.

Anna Kraft : Okay, nice, that sounds like fun. Lots of adventure. No soccer in there?

Thomas Chevanne : Soccer is to watch, I don't really play. Ha ha ha.

Anna Kraft : Why is the entire telecom industry more relevant than ever?

Thomas Chevanne : Well, I think in simple words, we enter a world where every individual, every business, every organization relies on us every day. So I think you can't get any more relevant than that.

Anna Kraft :That's true if you could change one thing in the industry, what would it be?

Thomas Chevanne: I think precisely having a more positive outlook. I think we are a highly relevant industry and sometimes there's just a little bit too much doom and gloom talking compared to what we are and what we can do.

Anna Kraft : Yeah, I totally agree with that. Okay, last question. What is your most recommended book or podcast?

Thomas Chevanne: Business Wars with David Brown podcast.

Anna Kraft : Okay, great, I think that's everything then.

Varun Arora:Alright Thomas, thank you for talking to us.

Thomas Chevanne : Thank you.

Varun Arora : I hope the listeners enjoyed this podcast as much as Anna, Arun and I did. Have a wonderful evening and rest of the week.

Thomas Chevanne : Okay, thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks for your time. Thank you guys.

 

In this episode of Telco Tech Talks, Anna and Varun sit down with Amparo Moraleda, a Member of the Board of Directors, Chair of the ESG Committee, and Member of the Audit Committee. As an industry leader and expert in ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) issues, Amparo provides valuable insights into the role of telecommunications companies in promoting sustainability and ethical business practices.

Throughout the conversation, Anna, Varun, and Amparo discuss a range of topics related to ESG and the telecom industry, including the importance of diversity and inclusion in the workplace, the role of technology in promoting sustainability, and the challenges facing telecom companies as they navigate complex issues.

Amparo's wealth of experience and expertise make her an ideal guest for this informative and thought-provoking episode. Whether you're interested in the latest trends in ESG or simply curious about the role of telecom companies in promoting ethical business practices, you won't want to miss this conversation with Amparo Moraleda on Kearny Telco Tech Talks.

Presented by: Kearney
Hosts: Anna & Varun

Transcript: 

Varun:   Welcome to our first episode on Telco Tech Talks, season two, with Anna and Varun. In today’s episode, we are excited to have with us  Amparo Moraleda with Anna and Varun. She's been a senior executive in various companies, including her 20-year stint with IBM in South of Europe. She's currently a non-executive director of Vodafone Airburst, Caixa Maersk, and among and several important roles, she also heads the ESG committee of the board at Vodafone. Amparo is passionate about both ESG and technology, and that's what you'll hear from her today with the intersection of these two topics in our first Hola Amparo. 
 
Amparo: Ola Varun, it is my pleasure to be here with you, Amparo. 

Varun: We start each episode with our guests sharing a little bit about themselves. Would you like to share a few highlights on your passion for technology? 

Amparo: Of course. Well, I'm a very curious person, and learning new things is one of my passions. I think that science and technology are key pillars to understand the world we live in and, of course, to address most of the biggest challenges we face. I'm an engineer by background, and I was a girl, a STEM student, passionate about math ages before the concept, STEM was coined.  

Anna: Amparo, I love that story. You know, we spent so much time talking about girls in STEM. I know that's another passion of yours, but today we want to talk about ESG. So tell us a little bit about how you first got interested in and engaged on that topic. 

Amparo: Well, thank you. ESG is a very wide topic, and I first got acquainted with the G of ESG when I joined my first board back in 2007. It was all about learning how to run thorough processing decision-making and learning to understand how to guide CEOs, execs, and executive committees to make the right decision. Then I think that dealing with the decommissioning of the coal plant in Scotland in the absence of, cost-effective solution for carbon capture and storage was really another moment of truth because, you know, coal plants are very polluting. But on the other hand, they also used to employ a lot of people, and they were key in the energy supply of the country. So, this is a very important and impactful story, for me. 
 
Varun : That resonates a lot with me I wanted to ask you, in your own world, what do you see the companies you are involved with doing in ESG—what are they championing? 

Amparo : Yeah, I've had the privilege to observe two large B2B companies as well as two very interesting B2C ones. So, the opportunities in the ESG space range from decarbonizing integrated logistics and shipping to pioneering sustainable aviation, mostly by the means of new technology. At Caixa Bank, it's really about sustainable finance and finances with purpose. Caixa Bank has as a reference the Caixa Foundation, which is the second-largest foundation in Europe. So much depth of purpose and social drive and at Vodafone, we also embrace how to enable an inclusive and broader digital society, I mentioned that we are finding ways to impact society and really impact the access to technology of students and children, and also, for instance, what we are doing in Africa at Vodacom. We have given access to more than 50 million people to finance through the use of M-PESA, and really, our mobile, Apple, is the largest FinTech in Africa, as you very well know, and it's based on a basic telecom service, and it's given access to finance to more than 50 million people. So But, really, what I have found out is that it is purpose what brings ESG into the mainstream of organizations.  

Anna : It's exciting to hear that companies, especially large and influential ones like the ones you serve on, have a deep purpose. Speaking about Vodafone specifically, what role do you think that a technology communications company like Vodafone can play in ESG? 

Amparo : Well, I think telcos have a paramount role to play. Telcos can contribute to mitigate climate change and also to develop more inclusive and ethical digital societies, which for me is a very, very important pillar to everything telcos do to advance digital society. But we need this digital society to be inclusive for people and businesses of all sizes. So some of the examples and initiatives we are having inside of Vodafone, if I take just the climate part and the digital society part, to strengthening their resilience, and to improving the lives of people everywhere through the power of connectivity and digital services. I think that the last two years during the pandemic have really demonstrated how connectivity and digital services can be the lifeline, allowing people to work, to learn, to stay in touch with their friends and family, and even to have access to healthcare and more. we currently have more than 350 million customers connected to our next-generation mobile and fixed networks, so that's really very important. Eh, we're also committed to providing access to our V-hub technology to SMEs, who really need to embrace digital to compete, in order to gain access to services and experts to digitize but above and beyond that, we are also very mindful of how important it is to protect customer and user data and to make sure that we also make a very ethical use of artificial intelligence and algorithms in all of our relationships with our clients, whoever they are and wherever they are. 

Varun : So thanks for sharing that. Amparo and I can see the intent that telcos are showing in terms of inclusivity. Anna and I were in Barcelona, and we saw telcos launch this data access initiative, which is called Open Gateway. And we are seeing how much they want to now involve the ecosystem and other communities and share the data with the world. What would be interesting to see is: are there areas where telcos are yet to show their intent, or are there areas where they are a bit blindsided right now on the ESG agenda? 

Amparo : Well, that's a very interesting question. I think, as many organizations, telcos are going through their learning curve in order to find out how they can have the biggest impact on the ESG agenda. I think we are all trying to just find ways to leverage technology to have a positive social impact. I think we are also trying to deploy technologies to help on the climate side. By deploying IoT, we are trying to make sure that we, for instance, are improving the detection of fire and in forest. I'd like to share with you a very, very interesting story when it comes to our CO2 impact. Our Vodafone procurement companies started an exercise some time ago at trying to identify, you know, all the components that we were sourcing from Asia in the context of WTO sanctions and the ban on Huawei. So within the procurement company, we set up a lab to really strip out the technology and understand where the pieces were coming from. And these same exercises that we did over time to de-risk our supply chain is  being used to really understand what's the CO2 footprint for each one of the equipmentss and the goods we source. So we just strip them out and track each single component to understand what the CO2 footprint of that equipment is. So through procurement, we then know where those equipment and goods are shipped and which Opco are using them. So through procurement, we can really track the CO2 footprint of the company, which is amazing. And we have an app, and by just selecting a country or a specific set of products and goods, we can see the CO2 footprint of our organization. The other very interesting thing associated with this is that we are developing an Ecolab and we are trying to bring other telcos into this initiative. So we have a standard to just assign a lab to, at, an Ecolab, to the items that we procure. And they are; most of them are very common to many telcos. And the last thing we have introduced is that we have assigned a 20% weight in to our request for procurement for the ESG component from our suppliers. So we attribute a 20% weight in our request for goods in our request for procurement to our suppliers. So we are starting to weight into our decision-making process how socially and climate-responsible our suppliers are. Likewise, in our business cases, now we also consider the CO2 footprint when it comes to future costs in our business cases. There are many ways to walk the talk, and I think we just need to make sure that the boards set the tone and executives really deploy into the mainstream of the organization this way of understanding social responsibility and environmental impact. 

Anna : Amparo, thank you for that example. I think it is interesting to see how you bring it to life, especially in the telco context, because we know that telcos are some of the most massive energy users in the world, and many are sort of focused on their direct emissions right now, but it's interesting to hear that you're really focusing on the indirect and scope 3 emissions through the procurement process. You touched on it a little bit, but I'd like to put a fine point on it. how can boards of telcos help drive this kind of thinking in the organization? 

Amparo: Well, we're all about making sure that all these initiatives and all these programs really go mainstream. What we do is really ask executives to come and present what they're doing in the op course, when a main op course, I mean in the countries, for instance, if we want to review the progress on environmental, we would just ask the general manager, the CEO of, Vodafone in Germany, to really explain how he's progressing in the supply of renewable energy, how he's just dealing with renewables in site generation, how they are really replacing refrigerants, gases, and fire suppressants with the highest global warming potential in their operating company, how they're switching to electric vehicles. You can set the tone from the top, but then the execution and the progress really depend on how the executives bring those principles into their mainstream. That's definitely the only critical success factor for you to become true. 

Varun : That's right. And let me shift gears a little bit here. We know that telcos cannot achieve their goals on their own, so I wanted to talk about innovation. In the ecosystem itself, do you see any impactful cleantech startups and ventures that are showing up?  

Amparo: I see some use cases of IoT when it comes to climate change, be it fire detection, be it really controlling the emissions. I'm also seeing an impact on the implementation of the circular economy. For instance, with the reuse of digital devices, we are just trying to make sure that we either recycle, reuse, or redeploy digital devices when they come to the end of their lives. There are a proliferation of start-ups, some catered to specific ESG use cases, with some product offerings, but again, no really winner in that space yet. The other big ecosystem that is developing is really all the ecosystem around energy, around hydrogen, so we are seeing companies such as Green Cell Energy. In hydrogen, we are seeing companies emerge and try to develop in the case of shipping e-methanol and bio-methanol. But again, I think that there is still no major project at scale, and I think this is the biggest challenge we face. How we are going to get traction on the energy transition around hydrogen energy supply and shipping is just imperative. Aerospace is also imperative. The availability of sustainable aviation fuels just 10% of all flights, so far used by airlines at twice the price, sometimes even three times the price of kerosene. I was referring before to my experience back in 2009 in Scotland and the commissioning of a huge power plant called Power Plant because the carbon capture and storage solutions were not yet available. I mean, we are in 2023, and carbon capture and storage solutions are not yet available at scale.  

Anna : In that story, what was also really interesting to me was sort of the push and pull between E and S, right Amparo, because the coal-fired power plant offers a lot of jobs to the community, which can be, you know, uplifting to the community in its own way but has a negative environmental impact. Like, we're actually going through a similar issue in our local community because there's a mandate to shut down the coal plants, and they're taking a lot of prime farmland and converting it to solar. On your point, we're just at the beginning, and how do we convince people, and what do you say to people about why this is important and why they should care about it? 

Amparo : It's really about focusing on the long term. And this is one of the topics where you need to go through a short-term payoff to really achieve a long-term gain. So, and honestly, the debate around energy might be more difficult because we are currently operating in a high-inflation environment with lots of cost pressure, and the energy is just adding to that equation and creating a kind of cost build-up, so it's definitely a very, very difficult topic, I think that on the social side, the dialogue and the conversation are much, much easier, and when it comes to human rights, when it comes to really including people, and when it comes to really protecting consumers and companies via data protection, via ethical use of artificial intelligence and algorithms, I think this is something that we would agree with, and it's very easy to drive in the organizations. 
 
Anna : Amparo, well, it's certainly inspiring to me, so I hope it'll be inspiring to the listeners of the podcast as well. We like to finish off each episode with the same five questions to learn more about you as a person and to help the listeners learn a little bit more about you as a person.  

Anna : So, first of all, what motivates you? 

Amparo: Learning motivates me, keeps me curious, and keeps me alive. 

Anna :   That's great.  Me too.  What do you like to do when you're not at work? 

Amparo: I like to work out and exercise, and I also like a lot being with my family. These are my two passions, I would say. 

Anna : Me too, again. Why is the entire telecom industry more relevant than ever? 

Amparo: Telcos are really at the center of everything we do by providing connectivity and access to information, so I think that they are more important than ever. 

Anna :  If you could change one thing in the industry, what would it be? 

Amparo : I would definitely try to protect the Telcos investment capabilities. The market structure in many European markets is not right. Regulators have been focusing solely on the consumer, driving incredible value destruction in many, many countries. The other aspect I would try to change is that really big tech companies pay for the services they get out of the six companies that drive 60% of internet traffic, and they are monetizing really the investment made by the telcos without contributing their fair share in terms of revenues to the big value they extract from it.  

Anna: Yeah. I'm on par with that; that echoes a lot of what we heard recently at Mobile World Congress, and we know it's been harder for the European Telcos to really invest in 5G technology, because they're held back in this way. Okay, last question, what is your most recommended book or podcast? 

Amparo : Well, I'll go for a classic here. I would recommend The Memoirs of Hadrian by Marguerite Yourcenar. It's an amazing history book, but most of all, for me, it's a great business book because it will tell you how to run a big multinational through the eyes of a Roman emperor. There are many tips and many insights in that book, which I thoroughly recommend to anyone who's interested in history or in business. 

Anna : Okay, great. That's an interesting choice. I'll have to read it, actually, Roman. Tom's a particular passion and interest of mine as well.  

Amparo: Thank you. 

Varun : Gracias, Amparo, for providing insightful and honest views. I like your clarity on what you believe will change quickly and what will take more time and some more pain,  

I hope our listeners enjoy every minute of this episode as much as Anna and I did, and goodbye. Adios. 

Produced & Distributed by Spooler
Also, listen online at www.spoolerpod.com

Telco Tech Talks with Anna and Varun is Kearney’s podcast covering global trends in the telecommunication and hi-tech industry, focusing on recent developments and providing telco aficionados with the latest industry insights.

Our podcast is hosted by Chicago-based partner Anna Kraft and Singapore-based partner Varun Arora. Kearney invites experts from around the world to cast a light on how the industry isn’t just advancing society but also enabling and inspiring those around them. Tune in wherever you get your podcasts.

Telco Tech Talks with Anna and Varun is produced by the telecom and technology experts at Kearney, a global management consulting firm. As the original operations consulting firm, we help our clients confidently set a course to navigate disruptions and transform their operations. Learn more at kearney.com

Transcript

Social:
https://www.kearney.com
https://www.linkedin.com/company/kearney