What's your relationship like with your grandmother? Marianne and Hollis' relationship as grandmother and granddaugher is beautifully honest, filled with a respectful compassion, and amazingly transparent. In this episode, Hollis reveals to her grandmother she identifies as queer and dates both men and women. They talk about Hollis' concern about discussing her sexuality with her grandmother following early childhood experiences around gender with her parents. We hear about why Marianne has had such satisfaction watching Hollis grow up, she shares some startling—and instructive—thinking on aging, and they come together over the strained relationship Hollis has with her mother and they both reveal how each other's love and their relationship has been a force for good in their lives. 

FROM THE EPISODE:

[Hollis] When I reach your age, what advice do you have for me?

[Marianne] Don't sweat the small stuff. There's too much of it. Life is too short. When you get to be my age, be happy to be that age. Don't look in the mirror and—I’m guilty as charged —and look in and say, “Oh my God, what happened to you? Where did that person go?” That person is here and on my better days, which are most of my days, I realized that. And I wish for you, never to have to go through that. The aches and pains of aging, they're there.

We were talking earlier about young women being whistled at, and called out to, and all of that, and you can't go to her out for a run dressed in whatever. And then you get to my age and you're ignored. That really ticks me off. So I make noise and try not to be ignored. Don't let them ignore you. When you get old, older, I'm not old. I'm older. End of story.

What's something I don't know about you?

[Hollis] I don't think you know that I identify as queer. So that I date men and women and have dated women. I told my dad, maybe a year and a half ago or something.

[Marianne] Does it bother you to tell me this?

[Hollis] No…not that I'm like ashamed of or anything. I'm not sure why I am more on the quiet side about it. Maybe there is something internally that I'm not addressing or something. I think it's hesitation, cause—I don't know if you remember—when I was like 12 and I was in a chat room or something and I was talking about a girl and my mom used to read my conversations online but I didn't know. So she saw it and told my dad. And then my dad was like, “Are you gay? It's okay if you're gay.” And I was like, “I'm not”. So I didn't want to have them be right or something. I dunno. Maybe it is a little ashamed or something. I don't know why. I don't actually feel like it’s anything that's wrong.

[Marianne] Do you think that it would matter to me?

[Hollis] No.

[Marianne] Because it doesn't. Anyone you ever bring home to my house, I will welcome with open arms because people are people. And you're Hollis, and nothing can ever change that. And if Hollis loves any person, that person will be loved by me as well. I think it's a great world now because you have the freedom to identify yourself in ways that you feel from deep within. When I was growing up, we didn't have that freedom. I can see where it probably causes you a lot of anxiety in some ways. As far as, you said you questioned yourself. Why? 

[Hollis] What do you mean?

[Marianne] Why do you identify as queer? Why do you question that any more than you would question why you are the height you are?

🗣 Have the kind of meaningful conversations you hear on this podcast with our Relationship Card Games: TheSkinDeep.com/Store

♡ Us Illuminated is produced by the Emmy Award-winning interactive studio exploring human connection in the digital age, THE SKIN DEEP.