As Season 1 of TendingBar draws near to its close, it’s only fitting to bookend the season with the second part of our interview with Peter Vincent, whose interview was initially introduced earlier this summer as our very first episode.

Once the former top lawyer at Immigration and Customs Enforcement, Peter oversaw immigration enforcement matters during the Obama administration, and he was intimately involved in the creation of DACA (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals), the program created by executive order to shield especially deserving young undocumented immigrants against threat of deportation. As Peter predicted, only days after our interview the Supreme Court blocked the Trump administration’s attempts to dismantle DACA, and just last week a federal district court in New York ordered DHS to proceed with accepting new applicants to the program.

When Peter and I spoke during the summer, the country was also witnessing widespread protests against police violence and in support of the Black Lives Matter movement, and federal agents (including personnel from agencies with whom Peter once worked) had only recently been deployed against peaceful protestors in D.C.’s Lafayette Square. Peter was kind enough to share his perspectives on those current events, which led to reflections on ethics and values in government – precisely the kind of reflections one hopes our senior law enforcement officials are willing to undertake.

Against the backdrop of that values discussion, Peter was candid with TendingBar regarding his views of the child separation policies carried out under the Trump administration, even sharing how such policies were discussed, but ultimately rejected, within the Obama administration, precisely because Peter’s agency was committed to policies that reflected its humane values. Don’t miss this insider view on the child separation controversy.

Peter Vincent’s incomparable expertise and his compassionate, thoughtful approach to immigration policy are evident throughout his interview with TendingBar. He represents the best among us – as a public servant, as an attorney, and as an ethical, concerned citizen.

Once a struggling teenager who found himself “without home,” as he describes it, Jere Simpson is a luminary entrepreneur whose successful software company, Kitewire, is trusted by the FBI and U.S. intelligence agencies to provide security for agents’ mobile phones. In this refreshing conversation, Jere explains that serving the community isn’t just good for business. As he sees it, he works hards to succeed precisely so that he is better able to serve others. On any given day, you might find Jere in Davos, New York, or at one of his homes in L.A., Tahoe, or the Virginia suburbs of Washington, D.C., so we were especially grateful that Jere generously provided time to talk about his business, his passion for service — including his particular passion for the youth-oriented Urban Alliance, and his philosophy of life.

We interviewed Jere in the Spring of 2020, early in the COVID-19 pandemic, and when we scheduled the release of Season 1’s episodes, it just seemed right to release this discussion at Thanksgiving. If you’re looking for a positive story and a reminder that we are surrounded by good people working for the good of the broader community, listen to Jere’s worldview.

Happy Thanksgiving, all!

As the Deputy General Counsel of Womble Bond Dickinson (US) LLP, Alison Bost advises hundreds of attorneys across the country regarding legal ethics, professional responsibility and risk management.  During her TendingBar interview, Alison describes a legal career built on counseling other lawyers, and we delve into the challenges of managing potential conflicts of interest in a large firm that advises thousands of clients.

In the wake of repeated tragedies involving unjustified killings of black Americans by police, the American public has spent most of 2020 engaged in renewed discussions about systemic racism.  Unfortunately, the public debate often lacks a shared vocabulary or a conceptual framework necessary to make those discussions fruitful.  Forward-thinking businesses and professional organizations, by contrast, have in recent years begun to recognize the importance of diversity within their ranks, as well as the persistence of systemic challenges facing diversity initiatives. Within Womble, Alison has therefore organized nationwide efforts to educate attorneys about the science of implicit bias -- certainly timely in today's climate.  Most of our TendingBar interview discusses implicit bias, and we introduce viewers/listeners to Project Implicit (http://implicit.harvard.edu), the freely available online toolset created by a collaboration among  professors at Harvard, the University of Virginia and the University of Washington.  TendingBar recommends Project Implicit as a framework to teach and learn about implicit biases in a non-threatening and eye-opening way.

With Alison’s leadership, Womble now participates in the Mansfield Rule, a nationwide program among law firms designed to interrupt and overcome the negative impacts of implicit bias in the law firm workplace.  Mansfield-participating firms make commitments to include diverse candidates in all of their key hiring and promotion decisions (and other aspects of firm operations).  Alison describes Womble’s participation, and we discuss the reality that diverse organizations demonstrate higher productivity (and higher profits).

Key Discussion Moments (minutes:seconds)

2:30  From French Major to Lawyer

6:50  Taking Conflicts of Interest Seriously

14:00 Understanding Implicit Bias and the Legal Workplace

21:27 Project Implicit as a framework for teaching about implicit bias

27:35 The Mansfield Rule

34:30 Alison’s life advice for would-be lawyers?

With a wide-ranging career in both private practice and leadership roles within in-house legal departments, Rob Falk’s career has been about service from the start.  As a young law firm associate, Rob began pro bono work for causes he cared about, including work that eventually led to his hiring as acting General Counsel at D.C. General Hospital and later as General Counsel of the Whitman-Walker Clinic, the world-renowned HIV/AIDS social services agency.

Rob spent 11 years as General Counsel of the Human Rights Campaign, America’s largest LGBTQ civil rights organization, where he supported the organization’s work on policy changes such as the “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” repeal and the passage of marriage equality and employment nondiscrimination legislation by state legislatures.

Rob and TendingBar’s host, Todd Harris, first met more than a decade ago, when Todd’s law firm, Womble Bond Dickinson, began doing a bit of pro bono work for HRC.  In the intervening years, Rob has participated in educational sessions with Womble to educate attorneys about legal challenges confronting the LGBTQ community.  In our interview, Rob was kind enough to reprise some of his excellent teaching.*

Now the General Counsel of The Truth Initiative – the non-profit that was formed and funded by the nationwide, multi-state tobacco industry settlement, Rob supports the organization’s mission to educate young persons about the risks of tobacco usage.

In our TendingBar interview Rob reflects on the values that have motivated a long, impactful career of service.

Key Discussion Moments (minutes:seconds)

[1:35 If you listen carefully, you just might hear Lucy the Corgi barking outside Todd’s window.  It’s still the COVID era, so we’re working from home!]

4:00 What was it like to run the legal department of Whitman-Walker Clinic in D.C., the world’s leading research center for AID patients in the early years of HIV?

6:10 Work as the General Counsel of the Human Rights Campaign

9:40 Learning the language of LGBTQIA+*

19:52 Understanding some of the unique legal challenges confronting the LGBTQ community

26:30 Reflecting on Obergefell & Marriage Equality

30:40 Lessons from the marriage equality movement for America’s current conversations around race equality

33:05 Education and Leadership as Keys to Anti-Discrimination Battles

38:50 Implicit Biases – The “tapes that run through our brains”

44:13 Views on current protests from the perspective of a DC resident

47:30 The Mission of the Truth Initiative

51:49 What drives Rob’s calling to public service?

53:15 Rob’s advice to today’s students

58:05 Notes on the Supreme’s Court decision in Bostock v. Clayton County

[Afterword:  Stick around afterwards for a quick outtake from Todd — a little free-of-charge, folksy philosophizing about strategies to combat discrimination.]

*Note:  While we tried to avoid unfairly asking Rob to represent the viewpoints of the entire, diverse LGBTQ community, we did ask him to help us learn better ways to engage in conversation about issues affecting the community, including ways to be respectful with our use of language.  A focus of Rob’s comments was the need for all of us to self-educate about the challenges of our LGBTQ neighbors.  Nevertheless, Rob was gracious enough to indulge some very basic questions that, to some viewers, might have seemed disrespectful, so we should point out that we had discussed those questions in advance of the interview, precisely because they were included as part of several education sessions Rob previously led at Todd’s law firm. Many thanks to Rob for his insights.

Ted Claypoole has been a leading expert regarding information security and privacy law since before most people ever heard the term “Internet.”  Formerly the chief data lawyer for Compuserve, and later as the top privacy and infosecurity lawyer for Bank of America, Ted has a long history of studying tough issues surrounding privacy law long before the general public has considered the issues.  Today he is asking thoughtful questions about data collection and COVID-19.

In our TendingBar interview, Ted reflects on data collection efforts that are currently underway around the world, that are undertaken for laudable purposes related to combatting COVID-19, but that may have the unintended consequence of exposing vulnerable communities to discrimination or other harms.  How can governments and private organizations serve public health goals without undermining privacy interests?  Ted shares cautions and prescriptions.

Key Interview Moments (minutes:seconds)

7:08 The average day of a privacy lawyer

11:24 The Case for American Privacy Law

14:30 Reasonableness and lack of clear-cut standards in global privacy law

17:10 The new privacy challenges of COVID-19

22:05 Understanding what’s trackable about you

24:15 Tracking COVID-19’s spread

25:30 COVID-19 Data and Persecuted Minorities

33:10 Current U.S. Contact Tracing Efforts

About Ted Claypoole

Ted Claypoole is a nationally known attorney focused on the law and policy of privacy and information security.  An Atlanta-based partner at Womble Bond Dickinson (US) LLP, Ted and our host, Todd Harris (also a Womble partner), have collaborated for years in representing tech companies and all kinds of companies who possess or process valuable data of all kinds.

Ted is the lead author of the entertaining and informative blog, HeyDataData, where he recently discussed how contact tracing to track COVID-19’s spread can lead to real-life risks for vulnerable communities (https://heydatadata.com/2020/05/21/covid-19-privacy-protection-and-persecuted-minorities/)

Ted has also authored several books on information security and privacy law.  His latest work, The Law of Artificial Intelligence and Smart Machines: Understanding A.I. and the Legal Impact, was recently published by the American Bar Association and is available now on Amazon. (https://www.amazon.com/Artificial-Intelligence-Smart-Machines-Understanding/dp/1641054131)

When Army Ranger Maj. Chris Mercado spoke with his former combat buddy in 2014, he discovered that his friend, a veteran with a distinguished service record, was suffering from the post-service trauma and mental anguish that plagues so many of our nation’s veterans and active-duty military personnel — his friend was contemplating self-harm. A long, caring conversation saved his friend’s life and inspired a project that now has the capacity to save many others.

Together with several friends, Chris and Betsey Mercado have created Objective Zero, a mobile app aimed at preventing military and veteran suicides by making a network of supportive professionals and volunteers available at the touch of a button. Today the network includes trained “ambassadors” in all 50 states and 26 countries, and lives are being saved.

Objective Zero has been so innovative, and so effective, that it has been widely praised by the media. The Army Times named Chris “Soldier of the Year” in 2017, and Fast Company tapped him as one of the “Most Creative People in Business” in 2018.

Chris and Betsey reminded us that situations like the COVID-19 pandemic have only heightened the need for services like Objective Zero. While at-risk individuals shelter-in-place, their social interactions are often diminished, and their sense of belonging and connectedness can be undermined. Especially for veterans transitioning out of uniformed service, where they previously took part in something so self-evidently larger than themselves, the isolation and detachment caused by quarantine can be overwhelming. In fact, usage of the Objective Zero app has never been higher, including use by many former military doctors, nurses and other medical professionals who are on the front lines of the pandemic.

To learn more about Objective Zero and Chris’ and Betsey’s mission, visit www.objectivezero.org. You’ll find links to donate and to sign up for training as a suicide prevention “ambassador,” and you’ll find lots of additional media coverage.

Join TendingBar for this sobering, yet encouraging conversation with Chris and Betsey, as they demonstrate what can happen when creativity, vision, teamwork and drive combine to make a positive impact on society.

Key Interview Moments (minutes:seconds)

5:30 What is Objective Zero?

9:00 A personal success story of OZ counseling

10:17  Understanding the scope and severity of veteran and active-duty suicides

11:25  What prevents veterans from receiving the mental health services they need?

14:27 Understanding stress factors that veterans face / Impact of COVID-19

16:15 Prescriptions for society to help veterans in need

19:21  How can individuals get involved and help?

About the Mercados

Betsey Mercado is the Co-Founder and Executive Director of Objective Zero, where she oversees the day-to-day operations of a vibrant 501(c)(3) non-profit organization.  Betsey holds a master’s degree in Human Services from Purdue.  Leveraging her prior experience leading multiple Family Readiness Groups that support active duty units and their families, Betsey brings an especially valuable perspective to an organization designed to help veterans and active-duty service members in need.

Chris Mercado is a Major in the U.S. Army with more than 20 years of military service.  Chris is “XO” (Executive Officer”) in the Combined Armed Center for Training at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas.  He’s also a proud graduate of Georgetown’s Center for Security Studies in the School of Foreign Service, where he received a master’s degree as the recipient of the prestigious Downing Scholarship, awarded by the Army’s Combatting Terrorism Center at West Point.  Chris previously deployed to Iraq, Afghanistan, Africa, and the West Bank.

As a political heavy-hitter in South Carolina’s Republican Party, Kevin Hall is well-known as the go-to attorney for the state’s leading political figures.  Kevin’s client list reads like a who’s who of South Carolina’s luminary politicians, including Senator Lyndsey Graham, Senator Tim Scott, former ambassador Nikki Haley, former Gov. Mark Sanford, and the South Carolina Republican Party itself.

In this candid and at-times personal conversation about values, politics, and the real-life impact of discriminatory laws, Kevin shares with TendingBar the story of the coalition he led to overturn South Carolina’s “No Promo Homo” law, which forbade virtually all K-12 classroom discussion regarding same-sex relations and which effectively stigmatized LGBTQ students and teachers across the state.

As a lifelong Republican in conservative South Carolina, Kevin might have seemed like an unlikely champion for LGBTQ equality.  Having developed a reputation as the state’s leading political attorney, Kevin was, however, well-positioned to work within his party toward change.  Building upon the trust earned over decades of service to the South Carolina Republican Party, Kevin built an unlikely partnership that included the state’s Attorney General and the statewide school superintendent.  Together, they worked to overturn South Carolina’s “no promo homo” statute, ultimately leading a federal court in Charleston to declare the law unconstitutional.

Key Topics (minute:second)

5:12: Lawyering for political heavyweights in South Carolina

7:05: The Origins of South Carolina’s Anti-LGBTQ Curriculum Statute – the “No Promo Homo” Law

11:10: “As bad as it gets” – How discriminatory laws impact both students and teachers

19:05: Kevin’s Personal Story

24:45: Crafting an unlikely, collaborative litigation strategy

32:35: The Courage to Fight Unpopular Battles

39:07:  Remembering the higher purposes of the profession

About Kevin Hall

Kevin is a practicing attorney at Womble Bond Dickinson (US) LLP and is Managing Partner of the firm’s office in Columbia, South Carolina.  A litigator with 30 years’ experience, Kevin has represented Fortune 500 companies in high-stakes litigation and elected officials facing ethics charges, criminal prosecution, and/or impeachment and removal from political office.  One of South Carolina’s most prominent lawyers, Kevin practices at the intersection of law, business, politics and public policy.

At just 16, Jennifer “Jen” DeTrani started her professional career as an intern at the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).  Later becoming an attorney at the Department of Justice (DOJ), Jen loved the issues and challenges that the “IC” (the national intelligence community) presented, but ultimately she found it wasn’t the right fit.  Instead of the adversarial mindset of a politically-fueled legal environment within the federal government, Jen now works collaboratively as the top business lawyer for a cybersecurity company that serves the public good in innovative ways.

In our TendingBar interview, Jen describes how the COVID-19 era has taught us to pay more attention to the well-being of our co-workers, and to offer compassion through our jobs. As an outspoken advocate for corporate diversity, Jen explains that diverse teams are good for business.  More importantly, Jen argues that every business should aspire to fit the values of its people, and that good business management should be an expression of respect and regard for one’s colleagues.

And, if you listen closely during the interview, you might just hear the jangle of dog collars or the pitter-patter of little paws while Jen’s THREE (3!) pugs walk around her desk.  Be sure to listen for pug outtakes at the end of the episode!

Key Topics (minute:second):

3:58: Graduating high school while interning for the CIA

7:26: Working for the DOJ, an adversarial mindset at work

9:34: The private sector meets IC experience against cyber threats

13:45: COVID-19, a remote workforce, and massive cyber vulnerabilities

16:51: Supporting diversity in cybersecurity

30:25 Jen’s advice on finding the right career

33:33: Having compassion in the “COVID era”

About Jennifer DeTrani:

Jen DeTrani is General Counsel of NISOS, Inc., a cybersecurity firm founded by former National Security Agency (NSA) cybersecurity experts co-headquartered in San Diego and Washington, D.C.  Having worked to defend the nation’s IT infrastructure from nation-state-level cyber-attacks, Jen and her colleagues now work to protect Fortune 1000 companies against those same threats.  If the COVID-19 pandemic has demonstrated anything, it has convincingly demonstrated how much the American economy relies upon its IT infrastructure in the private sector.  Businesses like NISOS are therefore a key part of the equation for defending the nation’s vital interests.

“It is more important that innocence be protected than it is that guilt be punished, for guilt and crimes are so frequent in this world that they cannot all be punished. But if innocence itself is brought to the bar and condemned, perhaps to die, then the citizen will say, ‘whether I do good or whether I do evil is immaterial, for innocence itself is no protection,’ and if such an idea as that were to take hold in the mind of the citizen that would be the end of security whatsoever.”  – John Adams

In this episode of Tending Bar, we hear from Mark E. Schamel, a prominent criminal defense attorney in Washington, D.C., who is well-known for defending police officers and federal agents in high profile cases. We discuss our justice system and how procedural rules are designed to check human biases that play into the determination of guilt versus innocence. Mark reflects on the goals of American justice, based on a system intended to protect the innocent — including the innocent who are sometimes accused of wrongdoing.

Mark also shares the story of Matt Horner, a Maryland man recently released from prison after being wrongfully convicted and spending 15 years behind bars for crimes he didn’t commit.  Mark represented Matt pro bono through The Innocence Project.

Key Topics

6:24: Defending law enforcement officers in criminal cases

12:27: Jurisprudence, protecting values, and finding justice through process

25:12: The Innocence Project and Matt Horner

This episode was recorded prior to the death of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor, whose deaths, among others, are fueling cries for police reform across the country. Schamel is an active participant in the public conversation surrounding the legal concept of “qualified immunity” for law enforcement officers, which shields police officers and other government officials from being personally sued for actions performed on the job, and that recalibration of the concept is necessary to hold officers accountable while still allowing them to perform their jobs.

Join TendingBar for Part 1 of an eye-opening and energizing conversation with Peter Vincent, General Counsel to ICE during the Obama administration, one of America's chief experts on criminal enterprise and terrorist organizations operating in Mexico and Central America!

In Part 1 of Peter Vincent's interview with TendingBar, he recounts his role in apprehending one of history's most notorious narco-traffickers, El Chapo Guzman.  He also shares his thoughts on public policy related to immigration across American's Southern Border, and he opines on current events.

Our interview of Peter Vincent occurred just days before the U.S. Supreme Court rejected the Trump administration's efforts to dismantle DACA.  Peter predicted that the Supreme Court would let DACA stand.

Part 1: Key Topics

6:12: Helping Colombia from falling into a narco-state-type dynamic

8:19: Tracking down ultra narco-trafficker, El Chapo

14:10: “Tacos, tequila and chicas”

18:29: Made in Hollywood, tracking El Chapo through Sean Penn and Kate del Castillo

21:55: A narco-trafficking game of “Whack-a-Mole”

28:26: Thoughts on today’s political environment

31:47: Why the Law, Peter? / Thoughts on lawyers as public servants...

In Part 2 of Peter's interview, we discuss controversial immigration policy issues like Jeff Sessions' "zero tolerance" policy and the separation of immigrant children from their families within U.S. detention facilities at the Southern border.  Peter speaks candidly about challenges to immigration policy, and about the thought that went into creation of the "Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals" program (DACA) - a program for which Peter was among the principal architects.

More about Peter Vincent

Peter Vincent has been serving the American people in various law enforcement and diplomatic roles for decades.  You may know him as the man in charge of the U.S. task force that worked with Mexican authorities to capture infamous narco-trafficker "El Chapo."  But Peter's career has been far-ranging, and his insights are important.

As a judicial attache for the U.S. Dept. of Justice in Bogota, Colombia, Peter became a top expert on criminal enterprise and terrorist organizations operating in Mexico and Central America.  Even before becoming a lawyer, he had developed an appreciation and love for the people and culture of Central America, while serving as a Peace Corps volunteer in war-torn Guatemala.

Peter brought his cultural understanding and law enforcement expertise to the Dept. of Homeland Security, where he became the top lawyer in Immigrations and Customs Enforcement, overseeing more than 1000 attorneys charged with enforcing immigration policy during the Obama administration.

During his tenure at ICE, the U.S. witnessed large groups of migrants fleeing terrible violence in Central America's "Northern Triangle" region (Honduras, El Salvador, and Guatemala).  Faced with large inflows of undocumented immigrants and overwhelming backlogs in the immigration courts, under Peter's leadership ICE implemented processes that prioritized cases related to safety threats (e.g., alleged drug traffickers) over cases that posed no safety threats, like families seeking asylum.  Amazingly, such prioritization had not previously been the practice within ICE, and Peter's team reduced backlog from more than 1,000,000 cases to ~350,000.

Peter and a small administration team relied upon the same philosophy of prioritization to create DACA, which offered protected status to young immigrants who had grown up in the U.S., while permitting ICE to focus on more critical cases and to increase enforcement, leading to Obama's nickname as "Deporter in Chief."

Be sure to look for Part 2 of Peter's interview, coming soon.