Reality TV dating shows are a subgenre of “reality” that seem to get weirder by the year. Josh and Tracy have watched their fair share of trash reality TV but could never get into nor get the appeal of the most popular reality dating hell show franchise of all: The Bachelor and The Bachelorette. Why do shows like this exist and what keeps people coming back for 25 seasons straight? We’ll hear from Ali Barthwell, a writer for Last Week Tonight with John Oliver and Vulture Magazine’s Bachelor recap columnist, as she breaks it all down for us, and maybe convinces our hosts to join the Bachelor Nation.

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