Imam Sulaimaan Hamed: Prepared to Serve | Faith, Leadership & Community
[00:00:00] Imam Tariq I. : is there a memory, an event, a mentor or something you can point to that you say, this was impactful and
[00:00:08] Imam Sulaimaan: leading me to where I am today?
[00:00:14] Imam Sulaimaan: Interesting. excellent question. I think the person would be my mother, more my parents, but particularly my mother they, subliminally pushed me to leadership and. academia, not to be a scholar, but for the sake of knowing, being educated and informed.
[00:00:35] Imam Sulaimaan: an occasion. There's a memory that I have that, I was having a conversation and people were asking, what are you going to be when you grow up? Mm-hmm. And I remembered that nobody said Imam. and, that stuck with me that as a career, you know, so I, I mean that, [00:01:00] that memory just, I'm not saying that motivated me to become an Imam, but that memory just stays with me.
[00:01:07] Imam Sulaimaan: And then, also in that conversation of what I. Consider that, you know, what I consider that particular, service. But yeah, those are some, occasions or, or memories, What was it about your mother both my parents, well my mother was an educator
[00:01:26] Imam Sulaimaan: She was the principal of the Clara Muhammad school, the director of the school. And so community, that's all I know. I literally slept at Muhammad schools.You're the principal, the director, opening and closing. just the connectedness to community
[00:01:39] Imam Sulaimaan: that's another big part of it. 'cause what, what we do is community service, we slaves to the community, you know?
[00:01:45] Imam Tariq I. : Mm-hmm.
[00:01:45] Imam Sulaimaan: But seeing that and witnessing that in my mother, in Oakland where I'm from, her serving that part of the community, I think it made it a natural thing.
[00:01:55] Imam Tariq I. : And when you noticed, nobody said, Imam, [00:02:00] what was your perception or what did you see Imam representing?
[00:02:07] Imam Sulaimaan: Interesting. I, I don't think then I, I, it, it didn't register then. Definitely. But I think what. It represented, and particularly 'cause I'm from Oakland, we had a strong Imam, if that makes sense.
[00:02:18] Imam Sulaimaan: Mm-hmm. You know, an active Imam, it represented a teacher. primarily it represented a teacher, but the religious thing that was more so what was being rejected the fact that this has to do with religion,
[00:02:31] Imam Sulaimaan: Mm-hmm. As opposed to just, selling chickens or something, you know.
[00:02:38] Imam Tariq I. : your mother was the director of Sister Clare Muhammad School. Mm-hmm. I'm also a product of the, sister Clare Muhammad school system. Right. had a huge impact on me. are there things you can look back. From being at the school mm-hmm. That you feel were embedded in you?
[00:02:55] Imam Tariq I. : Absolutely.
[00:02:57] Imam Sulaimaan: academically, Arabic. we went to [00:03:00] Syria, our delegation, went to Clare Muhammad. So we had Arabic, we had some foundation in Arabic. We able to read and write Arabic.
[00:03:05] Imam Sulaimaan: Right. So that like super impactful for. Muslim American kids, you know, black kids that's part of our community's history. and then the, it, it is different now. When my parents, when my mother was the principal, you had your pants, your shirt buttoned up to the top, a sweater.
[00:03:25] Imam Sulaimaan: And that uniform, you iron today, it's, a little different. Not coming to the mast in jeans. having a buttoned up shirt on, these may seem small, I got that from Claire Hammad, community appreciation.
[00:03:39] Imam Sulaimaan: appreciating the community, having a community, having a school, the personal things. I think those would be, some of the most impactful things for Clare Muhammad.
[00:03:48] Imam Tariq I. : I remember those, brown and yellow Uniforms.
[00:03:50] Imam Sulaimaan: Right.
[00:03:52] Imam Tariq I. : so when you got to Syria
[00:03:53] Imam Tariq I. : what led up to you going to Syria?
[00:03:57] Imam Sulaimaan: What led up me going to Syria? So I, I was telling this [00:04:00] story to someone else the other day. My parents were going to send me to hi school to hafidh School when I was about 15 to 16 years old.
[00:04:08] Imam Tariq I. : Mm-hmm.
[00:04:08] Imam Sulaimaan: But it was all Pakistani and we black. Right. you know what I mean?
[00:04:12] Imam Sulaimaan: my parents are, are, they, they were Pan-Africanist, but you know, my parents, black people, you know, revolutionary. So they didn't make me go with a bunch of Pakistanis. time passed. I'm saying in the sense of that. They had that interest for me of, of religious studies. My mother passed, and, and I graduated high school still had that interest.
[00:04:36] Imam Sulaimaan: Imam Safir Rabb. Was made the Amir, the director of the program, Imam Muhammad, had a program in Damascus, Syria. he made Safir the director and Safir was married to a sister from Oakland
[00:04:48] Imam Sulaimaan: So he comes to Oakland. I first heard about it at the convention, and the consideration of. Studying for myself. I didn't go like, I'm going to be [00:05:00] an Imam and learn. I just, you know, I'm going to study the religion for myself. So having that opportunity, I took it alhamdulillah, you know, talked to Safir and he asked me did I have a passport and I didn't.
[00:05:09] Imam Sulaimaan: I said, you know that program? He said, you got a passport? I said, no. He said, go get your passport. He didn't tell me that I was registering or whatever. He just said, go get your passport. I still can't guess I'm gonna Syria. Right. but then as I became more.
[00:05:21] Imam Sulaimaan: Focused seeing the need in our community for, you know, more advanced studies I always told myself I would do my religious studies before my secular studies,
[00:05:31] Imam Sulaimaan: that's how I wound up in Syria.
[00:05:33] Imam Tariq I. : Okay. I've had conversations with other imams. it was my parents. kind of like my parents made me do it. my parents put me on this, trajectory.
[00:05:44] Imam Tariq I. : Your response resonates with me. it's unique in the sense that you were exhibiting agency at a very young age. at 15, 16 years old, you're still thinking let me check this out over here. and you're from Oakland, right?
[00:05:58] Imam Tariq I. : What kind of [00:06:00] imprint did your environment have on you and was there a tension, between the environment and internal aspiration?
[00:06:11] Imam Sulaimaan: Love my home environment gave me a solid self identity. My home identity. I can go to Syria and I'm not interested in being an Arab.
[00:06:22] Imam Sulaimaan: I'm not interested in being a Syrian, I'm Suleimaan from Oakland, California. Right. And then our community home environment gave us that too. Like, you know, we're here representing the community, representing the Imam all, and that pressure was on us. Like we kept that pressure on us amongst the student delegation.
[00:06:43] Imam Sulaimaan: the, masjid environment. Iman Faheem is a scholar, you know, in the. Super fancy student and all of that stuff. So coming from Oakland, it motivated me to be a good student and, represent Oakland well.
[00:06:56] Imam Sulaimaan: Mm-hmm. You know, that, that was important in that as [00:07:00] you know, you know, we had Atlanta, a bunch of people from Atlanta. We had the, the community, so, you know, everybody representing they region in their, you know, they, they spot. So, you know, we had to represent Oakland well too, those features of my environment, had that impact.
[00:07:13] Imam Sulaimaan: Mm-hmm. the school itself was unique They didn't want, zombies. Saudi Arabia, that's different. They're looking for zombies. you put your brain in somebody else's. Saudi Arabia wants that, that's why they sent us there.
[00:07:27] Imam Sulaimaan: they wasn't looking for zombies. that helped in the environment of, being able to go back. having that identity, is. critical for anybody going out of the country. if you don't know yourself, you'd be looking for yourself.
[00:07:39] Imam Sulaimaan: that had a big blessing.
[00:07:41] Imam Tariq I. : So I think that was the point, is that people often, in the pursuit of knowledge, particularly sacred knowledge there's an element of people looking for themselves,
[00:07:51] Imam Sulaimaan: what you asked. Right?
[00:07:52] Imam Tariq I. : there's an element of people looking to find out who they are.
[00:07:55] Imam Tariq I. : Yes. And you're saying you went, I already know who I am. Yes.
[00:07:58] Imam Sulaimaan: yes. the conflict [00:08:00] was. as a student, we had a need. As Muslim Americans. it wasn't Arabic, It was jurisprudence.
[00:08:09] Imam Sulaimaan: How do you get divorced properly? What is the actual Islamic ruling on alimony and child support? the conflict was, me in particular, I would tell the teacher. We need to focus on these subjects that are pertinent to our community in America, these fit questions and stuff like that.
[00:08:26] Imam Sulaimaan: So that became the conflict And then just the rest of the world, not knowing black people. outside of America. Those were some of the conflicts.
[00:08:34] Imam Tariq I. : so how old were you when you went? 19, 20. So at 19, 20 years old, you're telling instructors, look, this is where I'm coming from.
[00:08:43] Imam Tariq I. : This is what my community needs,
[00:08:45] Imam Sulaimaan: it's important. They didn't have a problem with it. This is important though, Abu-Noor, this is something very specific of why Imam Mohammed sent us to that college,
[00:08:55] Imam Tariq I. : right?
[00:08:55] Imam Sulaimaan: Saudi Arabia, they probably tell you something else, Morocco. They might, but that school, they [00:09:00] understood
[00:09:00] Imam Sulaimaan: This is a relationship here and they understood that we're literally guests of the Imam. These are the Imam students. They knew that.
[00:09:08] Imam Tariq I. : Mm-hmm.
[00:09:08] Imam Sulaimaan: That school knew that. they knew, we're here. with a goal, what a task. that task was
[00:09:13] Imam Sulaimaan: we're here for information. these degrees, certificates. get back home to the people, you know,
[00:09:19] Imam Tariq I. : Hmm. That is, that is definitely a unique, experience.
[00:09:24] Imam Tariq I. : Most the time you hear people, people going and there's an acculturation. Well, yes. I wanna say you, you all, you respect the culture of any land you go to. However you don't lose yourself. I think that kind of goes back to the idea that people, when they, when they go, I think Dr.
[00:09:40] Imam Tariq I. : Zaina, Gral in her book, Talked about, that idea of moral geography, we get into these other spaces and we want to just. Right. This is who I am now. Right. You know, and we had
[00:09:51] Imam Sulaimaan: a few
[00:09:52] Imam Sulaimaan: was trying to do
[00:09:52] Imam Sulaimaan: we had to remind them that ain't no man and, and no.
[00:09:56] Imam Sulaimaan: Yeah. And we going back to America [00:10:00] and that ain't gonna work. They're gonna reject you at your, you know, when you get back to your masjid. So masha'Allah, you know,
[00:10:06] Imam Tariq I. : I think this might've been at the black Muslim Psychology Conference
[00:10:11] Imam Sulaimaan: In,
[00:10:11] Imam Tariq I. : Philly. people were asking, answers what their profession was, round table, right?
[00:10:15] Imam Tariq I. : It might have been right before the round table. they're saying, what's your profession? And came to you, and Imam's there. people were saying different things, but you said Imam It struck me. generally I've heard people respond to that as secondary.
[00:10:34] Imam Tariq I. : You know, I am. and maybe that's more relative to, communities where the Imam is not a paid Imam. Well, I'm a dentist, I'm also the Imam. Absolutely. but you always had it in your mind. once you decided on it as a profession, what has that meant for you?
[00:10:51] Imam Tariq I. : that's
[00:10:51] Imam Sulaimaan: interesting. I haven't decided. I didn't decide it. I didn't decide it like, well, I planned on being an Imam. That was not my [00:11:00] plan. now I see it was God's plan. Clearly, this is what I'm supposed to be doing 10 years into this thing,
[00:11:07] Imam Sulaimaan: So then it meant qualifying myself more.
[00:11:13] Imam Tariq I. : Hmm.
[00:11:14] Imam Sulaimaan: Not being a fraud, you know what I'm saying? Okay. This is the position you're in. What does that entail? hence being here. Right. And the MDiv and all of that, continuing from Syria. but that's really what it's meant,
[00:11:26] Imam Sulaimaan: It has meant being a model of what is not, if that makes sense.
[00:11:32] Imam Tariq I. : Say more about that.
[00:11:35] Imam Sulaimaan: It's not a rapper or a. Performer. You know what I mean? That, that, that this is, I was, I did a Sheikh Abdullah's show the other day.
[00:11:49] Imam Sulaimaan: Mm-hmm.
[00:11:49] Imam Sulaimaan: Talking with the teachers I mentioned 90% of what we do is pastoral care.
[00:11:54] Imam Tariq I. : Mm-hmm.
[00:11:56] Imam Sulaimaan: for the wannabe, it's the public speaking. showing people [00:12:00] reminding people, that's a very small part of what we do. It's actually helping these people getting divorced. This sister can't pay our bills, you know, with those type of things.
[00:12:09] Imam Tariq I. : Mm-hmm.
[00:12:10] Imam Sulaimaan: so for that, those, because those services are, requires. Skills.
[00:12:18] Imam Tariq I. : Mm-hmm.
[00:12:19] Imam Sulaimaan: Like counseling is a skill. You should just be listening to somebody, you know, having, learning to qualify myself to do those things better. That's what it's meant.
[00:12:30] Imam Sulaimaan: how have you maintained or has your, have you had a singular focus in terms of what you think your contribution to community looks like?
[00:12:38] Imam Sulaimaan: I know you talked about. Pastoral care. It is a big part and people don't see that.
[00:12:43] Imam Sulaimaan: Mm-hmm.
[00:12:44] Imam Tariq I. : in terms of your contribution to leadership and community,
[00:12:49] Imam Sulaimaan: that's a very good question, and I have never been asked that question in that manner.
[00:12:54] Imam Sulaimaan: Mm-hmm. Well, I'm writing this fancy thesis, you know what I mean? So that'd be something of the [00:13:00] contribution of the understanding of leadership transition. But I think, you know, my, what I have tried to do and because my interest is fiqh, help our people practice, right? Like that has been trying to be my contribution, but in a manner that's not weird and not boring.
[00:13:23] Imam Sulaimaan: And not foreign,
[00:13:25] Imam Tariq I. : right?
[00:13:25] Imam Sulaimaan: to assist our people be better practitioners of our religion, connecting them to the sources naturally. to be that bridge between, this information Allah has blessed me with and, and for our people, but I, I think that's, but I'm going to think more about that question.
[00:13:42] Imam Sulaimaan: I might have another answer later.
[00:13:45] Imam Tariq I. : Okay. So as it relates to fiqh, jurisprudence It's application for Muslims in our daily lives.
[00:13:51] Imam Sulaimaan: Mm-hmm.
[00:13:52] Imam Tariq I. : Iman Mohammed did a masterful job with what he inherited from, the honorable Elijah Muhammad.
[00:13:56] Imam Sulaimaan: Mm-hmm.
[00:13:57] Imam Tariq I. : You know, trying to restore, dignity to [00:14:00] people.
[00:14:00] Imam Tariq I. : Right. You can't follow rules without understanding the benefit for you. Yes. those seem arbitrary, but within our association. do you see a greater appreciation or awareness of this aspect? of our faith. because I don't necessarily think I hear many imams speaking about fiqh and maybe that speaks
[00:14:22] Imam Tariq I. : to qualification.
[00:14:23] Imam Sulaimaan: So Interesting. That's just what I was about to say. Yes, but not with the same name. Not with the same language. there has always been an effort to, be greater at our practice. and that's part of the strategy of the Imam and not bogg the people down with a whole bunch of details and facts
[00:14:41] Imam Sulaimaan: So I do think there is that, aspiration, and desire, but maybe just not in the same method. I'm doing it like this 'cause I learned the stuff in the classroom. Right. And have that fancy vocabulary, but trying to translate it and transfer it into a manner. And, you know, something else you [00:15:00] said, when I usually teach fiqh, I teach usul-ul-fiqh first the origins of it.
[00:15:06] Imam Sulaimaan: How did we even get here? How do we get to fiqh as a word? I have seen that, Be helpful in using that methodology, but yes, Arabic too, our community's always been strong with language. I have seen it, but maybe not with the same vocabulary.
[00:15:22] Imam Tariq I. : What are your thoughts on the need for, uniformity?
[00:15:29] Imam Sulaimaan: need or expectation of uniformity by whom?
[00:15:33] Imam Sulaimaan: Well, that's a good question....
